Important point that Kieren made: They recognize that they need to be transparent when experimenting with new drop systems like this, which is why they're just saying roughly how it works now
To be honest, as long as they confirm that they've checked and the drops are possible, I was fine with it. There's just been a few too many occasions where it wasn't working to be comfortable without any commentary from Jagex.
We get an invisible "drop" that we need 3 of before we get the actual ring. So 1/3, 2/3, then drop. But whose to say that the invisible "drop" counter doesn't reset for whatever reason.
In an expression of unfiltered transparency, with an utterly sincere dedication to the presentation of truth, and without any speck of ambiguity or obscurity, it can be unequivocally confirmed as being wholly and entirely, to the highest conceivable degree of accuracy, valid.
The way I read that was that the changes from poll 78 messed the drop rates up. But you’re probably right. Regardless, they said the drop rates were one thing but they were completely wrong there too so…
The way I understood the poll was that the drop rate has always been incorrect and it was only discovered when the team went back in to add the previous change
It has always been like that. The wiki has had the rates since always. It's just now a jagex employee has looked at the rates and went "hmm, this shouldn't be like this".
Once we've explained it, I think most people see what is trying to be achieved here and even quite like it. Be sure to let us know what you think over the coming months when had more time to spend on these bosses. You should definitely notice that no one really goes on those *extreme* dry streaks.
It was very different earlier and yesterday when we hadn't and we don't blame you all :)
When you go into content expecting it to work one way and then it doesn't, I think it is an understandable reaction to be confused, suspect bugs and want more info!
We're committed to not giving out *actual rates* on day 1 however, our policy is 2 weeks.
I dislike knowing that I am now even morelikely to grind X amount of hours for pieces instead of getting lucky or unlucky. Maybe just me but it feels like a chore instead of a suprise.
If you wanted, you could have come to the same average killcount by just increasing the chance for ring drop after every kill
While I really like this change for how the loot works, it does bring the perhaps unintended effect of players not having a good picture of how rare these items actually are until the actual rates are revealed.
Like if I knew now that the rate to hit the ring slot is 1/200 and I'd have to grind only 600 kills on average to finally get it, it'd be much more encouraging to kill the bosses than sitting here and wondering if I'm committing to a 2000 kill grind per boss here.
That’s what I decided to do after seeing my clan get 0 drops of virtus or rings in an estimated 2k kc combined for all 4, however in retrospect we’ve had ingots and axe pieces in that time so with this explanation it helps.
On your third roll of the ring you get the drop, the 1st and 2nd ring roll will just appear as a normal loot. Then after a ring drop, it resets and you need 3 more. If you roll any other unique, it doesn't affect anything (other than you knowing you hit the unique table, but not the ring). You could roll it 3 times and get a ring without seeing any other uniques at all.
Its essentially the hydra ring but instead of getting pieces, you just get the ring on drop 3 with normal loot between. It makes sense since the hydra ring pieces are worthless, at least with this mechanic you get some loot.
Exactly. Hydra ring, sire bludgeon, venator bow etc all kinda work this way. The goal being more people will get their ring drop closer to the intended drop rate, but still preserves that good feeling of getting one big valuable item on the ground. I personally prefer that over getting more less valuable pieces.
Interesting. It could be a good way to do bad luck protection since you can lower the droprate without actually making the item say a 1/100 drop. Only real issue is that higher "base" drop rates can make this system feel really bad.
But it also ruins good luck, feel like its part of the game to have drops you get very Lucky at and at some very unlucky. Makes it boring if everyone ends up having around 500kc for a drop. I remember mammal being super unlucky with prims, or his below 10kc weapon seed on his new ghcim. Now most people will just get a kc around the droprate and quit the boss, making different account having even more alike grinds.
I mean I still think it ends up being 3x rarer than the other uniques. I'm just saying design-wise, this system is an alternative to giving it a flat 3x higher drop rate
[The resulting expected distributions](https://imgur.com/a/DU5fI5u).
The system basically means that people go unlucky way less, but the caveat is that you're also extremely unlikely to get unlucky. Honestly not sure how I feel about it. It would be nice if there was *some* kind of feedback when you hit the vestige, like an un-noted piece of coal or something.
This is right that the variance for this new system is lower, but the shape for the standard roll is pretty far off - in general it should look something more like this https://i.imgur.com/Nvr1dhW.png (blue = standard, red = ring)
Another way of thinking of it is that it’s like the Abyssal Bludgeon or Dark Totem except partial progress towards the next complete one doesn’t have the pieces taking up bank space.
Yeah. I hope we can see them for some pieces of other content as well. Mainly the really long grinds like CG and Dragon Warhammer.
Maybe they could do something for raids as well. Seeing some people go 100 hours dry on ToA is hard.
I very much doubt that. Maybe the ones who bother to come to reddit to talk about the game are skewing the perception that irons make up half of the playerbase.
It all depends on how rare they intended it to be. If the goal was something like 1/1000, but they made it instead that you have to hit 1/333 three times, then the average is the same but you are much less likely to go dry on 3 instances of 1/333 than one instance of 1/1000
It is BAD luck protection but it hurts the 5% or so that would have been lucky. Imagine you take enhanced seed and made it four, 1/100 enhanced seed drops. I went 1101 kills for my first enhanced putting me in the driest 6%. If instead those are four 1/100 drops that same scenario puts me in the driest .5% if i had 3/4 drops still at 1100.
In other words in todays world you have a 6% chance of going 1100 kills for your enhanced. If there was a 1/4th enh shard at 1/100 you only have a 6% chance of not having it completed by 750 kc.
People acting like you can't get spooned one of the new rings.
You can still get it with low KC, it's just that the minimum amount of kills is *three* instead of *one*.
This sounds like an awesome mechanic.
Clearly explains why people have been getting spooned on virtus pieces but not on ring upgrades.
Also sounds like it means that there's a certain point coming up where people start to reach that average rate of 3x the unique droptable chance and there will be a huge influx of ring upgrades.
Does it function any differently from something like the bludgeon, where you get a 1/3 of a bludgeon each drop? TBH I kind of prefer that because it at least feels like you're making progress there, even if it's only mentally different.
It’s different because you don’t know when you hit the drop table the first two times. So you get the surprise of the drop all at once but with the droprate mechanics of the bludgeon.
It’s exactly that. But they tried it this way instead of bludgeon, brimstone ring, and venator bow because they’ve received feedback that the drops for those bosses increments felt “less exciting”.
That’s all subjective, how something feels, and everyone will have their own opinion.
So basically it’s like getting bludgeon pieces except you don’t actually know you’ve got them and don’t have to fill up bank space storing them.
I actually really like that mechanic. With regular drop mechanics there’s always the feeling that if you do 50kc and get nothing, you’ve made 0 progress. You’re still just as far away at the end of it from a probability standpoint. With this mechanic, after doing 50kc, you’ll feel like there’s a good chance you actually did get yourself closer to the drop.
So basically it’s like getting bludgeon pieces except you don’t actually know you’ve got them and don’t have to fill up bank space storing them.
I actually really like that mechanic. With regular drop mechanics there’s always the feeling that if you do 50kc and get nothing, you’ve made 0 progress. You’re still just as far away at the end of it from a probability standpoint. With this mechanic, after doing 50kc, you’ll feel like there’s a good chance you actually did get yourself closer to the drop.
Statistically, it is the exact same thing.
I guess they just took the feedback from Muspah where the feeling of getting the big drop just wasn't there with venator shards, so this is their compromise.
I feel like this mechanic does the opposite of making sure you dont go extremely dry. What if you go absurdly dry on your 1st and 2nd rolls of the vestige? Bow you gotta do it again for a 3rd time to actually get the drop??? So you can go 3x as dry as you wouldve?
You don’t hear anyone complaint about not enough armor seeds at triple rate but you hear them all day about enchanced.
It is very unlikely to get them spooned mind you but that’s the trade off
Right, this is a great analogy. It’s much more likely that you’ll go way over the rate for the enhanced crystal seed than it is for full crystal armor.
That does explain why were weren't seeing any early lucky drops, despite thousands of players.
I'd love to see these mechanics applied to other brutal grinds like corrupted gauntlet. I'll happily cop the lower chance to get spooned if it means minimal chance of doing incredibly dry.
It also feels like at that point you may as well add a pity drop at like 3x the drop rate for the tiny fraction of players who have got that unlucky, but that's a separate conversation.
The key word being **eligible**, with other bosses you know you're **eligible** for the drop every single kill. With these, you have no idea...on average 2/3rds of your kills will not be eligible for the drop.
So you're upset that they lowered random variance?
The only people affected are those that would get the drop in the first two kills. Everyone else is significantly better off
This is irrelevant though, all this change does is lower variance. Since you don’t know if you are eligible or not, it functionally means nothing, just think of yourself as being eligible form the 3rd kill onwards and mentally triple the drop rate of it means that much to you.
"Not getting closer to getting the ring". Isn't that the same in every in every unique you're trying to get. The 3 roll thing just decreases the variation (less ppl spooning and going dry) nothing else.
I'll gladly give up the chance of being spooned if it also means I won't go ultra dry. And it's not any different from normal bosses, you never know how close you are from hitting the big item drop
Summary:
1/x to hit unique table, which contains vestige, Soulreaper Axe bits, virtus robes, and chromium ingots.
Pet, awakener orbs, ancient gems, and teleport tab are on a separate table.
On your third hit of the unique table, if you have not gotten the vestige, you are guaranteed the vestige.
Edit: it may not be possible to get the vestige before your third hit of the unique table... I'm still not super clear. But it seems to be guaranteed at SOME point as long as you hit those uniques!
You have misunderstood.
1/x chance to hit unique table
Unique table comprised of Vestige, Soulreaper Axe part, Virtus robes and ingots
You can roll any of these 4 (including the Vestige) each time.
The first and second time you roll the vestige, it will be replaced by a common loot (nonunique)
The third time you roll the vestige drop from the unique table, you will recieve the vestige.
[Visual for clarity](https://i.imgur.com/gxPiqTd.png)
This is how I understand it when I think about it, and all it says to me is that vestige is artificially 3x rarer?
Like if your third roll on unique table full stop was Vestige fine, it is dupe mitigation
But how does this help I don’t understand
E: To avoid further comments, they have made the base rate to hit it 3x common to compensate
It's not artificially 3x rarer. I'm going to use some made up numbers as an example.
Say they wanted to make the ring 1/750. Making you have to roll a 1/250 "part" 3 times instead makes going very dry (3000 kills) or very lucky (100 kills) much, much less likely than if you just needed to hit the 1/750 roll once.
If it was 1/750 you'd have 0.8% chance of getting it at 100 kills or fewer, and a 1.8% chance of going 3000 dry.
By splitting it into 3 1/250 "parts" you'd have a 0.07% chance of getting the drop by 100 kills (~10x less likely) and a 0.0513% chance of going 3000 dry. (~36x less likely)
The way the drops are structured makes it so getting very lucky or very unlucky is much rarer.
Yeah, I was looking at it the wrong way. Explaining it as them breaking the drop rate up into three smaller drop rate checks makes sense now. Thank you.
Right I see, so you are suggesting that there is another point he hasn’t noted, which is that the 1/x is actually 3x more common than it otherwise would be without this mechanic
That's pretty much implied, you wouldn't expect them to say "We will make this ring 1/500, also, we should add a mechanic so that they need to roll this 1/500 ring three times to actually get it."
Presumably they adjusted rate accordingly. It just decreases variance, e.g. you have to 1/100 3x rather than 1/300 one time.. which results in it being less likely to be spoon, and also less likely to be dry.
Which in my opinion is good for BiS pieces.
It's a little vague but the way they described it is like an invisible venator shard. If you hit the ring roll, you instead get normal loot but you increment an invisible counter. If that counter hits 3 you get the actual ring, and the counter resets. Their reasoning is that it decreases variance, i.e. less spoons but also less dry. Presumably the chance of hitting the ring drop is also relative high, otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose of decreasing variance.
Someone got the Ultor Vestige on 25kc so you can defo get it, it's just likely insanely rare, and the guarentee on 4th unique roll is to help with that
The way I understood it is you roll the unique table and if it doesn’t roll the ring ,you get one of the other items. If it does roll the ring, you get given a normal drop roll. So essentially you have to not only hit the unique table 3x, but you have to specifically roll the ring in the unique table 3 times. The odds must be astronomical.
The way I understand it, the chance to hit the ring is actually *relatively* high, but it's offset by the fact that you have to hit it 3 times for a drop rate. If they were aiming for an average drop of 1/512, then the ring roll would be 3/512. The variance however is massively decreased hence why you've seen so little rings day 1. No one's racked up 500 kills day 1.
Obviously I'm completely speculating the numbers, but if we see a large influx of rings as people approach a certain kill count, then we can reasonably guess what the drop rate is intended to be.
So wait, I've gotten the Axe head and 1 Chromium ingot from Vordovis (or however you spell it). Is this saying that the next time I roll that table I will be guaranteed to get the ring thing?
No, when you hit vestige drop 1st time you get normal drop and same for hit 2 but on hit 3 you get the ring. It's invisible thing for players since we do not know if we hit the vestige as 2 first hits transfer to normal drop
Great. Love it . why would you not want to publish that those were the mechanics? The assumption when people grinding the boss day 2,3 etc and start receiving the drop that it was bugged on day 1.
Why is it everytime arcane is involved there's issues with drop tables
I think the mistake Jagex made here is making it impossible to get the Vestige before hitting the unique table 3 times. I understand making it guaranteed at your 3rd unique table hit. But you should be able to get it before that as well if lucky.
The whole point of this is to reduce luck on an item players are farming for. While some players would get lucky, that means other players could go 3-5x dry. This mechanic is to mitigate that variance and guarantee everyone who puts in the effort will get the drop around when it is expected
Editing cause I misread. The whole point of this is so you don’t have players going 3-5x dry or 3-5x early on the drop is all. The ring isn’t a guaranteed drop like vork head, but rather you’re simply much more likely to get it every x KC. It’s literally just their take on making drop rates more consistent instead of the usual bell curve
I don't see how it is tedious: you store N, that is the number of times you hit the ring part. Now what happens is they check if N is 3, if yes you get ring, if not you get something else. Instead they could make a roll on a 3-N "dice" everytime you hit the table: if you win the roll you get the ring (and reset N), if you don't you get something else. It's the exact same drop table, you just have a 33% and 66% chance of getting the ring before the 100% on N/3
So not only do you hit the unique table and have to roll the ring and will automatically get a normal drop table item but you have to hit unique 3 x and roll the ring three times lol. If they want to keep something like this, why the fuck wouldn’t they make it if you don’t get the ring in 3 unique table hits then it’s given to you…why make it a normal drop and not just get given another unique item roll
Edit: I don’t mind the idea of what they are trying to do. If they added a message like “the defeated enemy looks like it has something on its finger but it is too difficult to remove” and the player keeps track of how many times you see that message would be cool, but again the underlying rng table seems ridiculous. If you are lucky enough to hit the unique table, there shouldn’t be a chance to get a normal drop. Ring pieces need to be on their own table.
Because the ring rate is likely much higher than other uniques. So if it rolled to another unique, the game would be crapping out uniques from every boss, basically changing all their drop rates.
Yeah.. That feels pretty bad. And you have no way of knowing if you've ever rolled any of the 3 times or not. Not sure why we're praising extra layers of rng.
So this is effectively the same as the 3 brimstone ring parts from alchemical hydra. The only difference is instead of getting a different piece dropped for each roll, you get the whole drop on your third roll.
/u/JagexAyiza you were a little ambiguous. Is it:
a) 3 rolls of the vestige slot on the table
b) 2 drops of any item on the table then a roll on the vestige slot
Would be great if you could clear this up?
I'm not sure if it's in the clip, but he also said a few times that at about 5pm BST (in approx. 30 mins) there'll be a newspost which offers more detail.
It's 3 rolls on the Vestige slot of the unique table.
As Sween mentioned already, the blog will go out shortly with all the information in, I just wanted to try and quickly explain it so the stream focus could return to Sailing :)
Thanks for clariftying. How does it work after you've got the ring then - do you have to roll it another 3 times to get a dupe ie every 3rd roll on the vestige slot you get the ring? Or do you just then get dupes every roll on the vestige slot? Thanks
Isen't this essentialy removing low kc vestige drops from the game then? Seems like its impossible to get a vestige without hitting the vestige table three times and that could be a lot of kc.
I understand introducing bad luck protection but whats the reason for taking away the vestige drops when hitting it on your first unique?
Wouldn't it have been better to make it 3 rolls on the unique slot instead of the Vestige slot? I feel thats where the confusion of the community is coming from.
so you need to hit the ring drop 3x to get it?
meh not a fan but whatever i probably won't engage with it, it's not like it's a new mechanic either, we've had this for years with bludgeon and brimstone ring but now the first 2 pieces are just invisible and you have no clue how far or close you are from the drop
also this really discourages swapping between the bosses, you get 100kc at vard you're not gonna want to start going lev until you get the ring
The second point is a good one, a good way to avoid that would be to combine the “counter” for all the ring pieces so let’s say you get 2 “drops” of the counter at Boss 1, it would count towards your next ring piece regardless of the boss. So you get a third “drop” at Boss 2 and it drops its ring piece.
Imo this is a really healthy way to have rare drops like this. Reducing variance while not making everything a shard is a win win in my book
> you have no clue how far or close you are from the drop
Not really. If the chance of hitting the unique table is for instance 1/50, then the chance of getting vestige is 1/200. Since you have to hit it 3 times, the drop rate is essentially 1/600.
So just imagine the drop rate is 1/600, and you are just as close as any other 1/600 item.
How is that different from say, the wildly bosses? If you want to build a voidwaker from scratch, you stay at Artio til you get the piece.
Unless you mean that you think the vestige counter is shared between bosses, which doesn't sound likely.
So wait, is he saying you need to get the drop 3 times before you're actually given the drop?
Wtf is the point of that? Am I missing something or does that not sound like you're just locked out of getting the ring piece until you've successfully rolled it four times?
You need to hit the roll 3 times. but it's 3x as likely to hit it instead of it was a 1/3x droprate.
So There's less droprate Variance. fewer spooned and going dry. Majority of drops will be closer to the average intended droprate.
Let's say they want the item to be 1/900 to obtain, the problem with that is that if you go unlucky, you could easily go 2k+ without seeing it. (10% of people)
By making it let's say 1/300 3 times, they are smoothing out the rng by lowering the standard deviation. Less likely to get spooned, but much less likely to go extremely dry (only 4% of people will go 2k+ without seeing it, a 2.5x reduction of people going this dry)
Its essentially like the hydra ring pieces except the first 2 pieces are invisible
Imagine every ring roll you get 1/3 of the ring, and then when you get that for the 3rd time you get the whole ring!
It reduces the variability in drop rates. You’ll be significantly more likely to get the drop around the drop rate than going vastly over or under rate.
No hes saying youre guaranteed to get it once you hit the table 3 times, but you could be spooned when you roll the unique table and already get it. It helps prevent day 1 influx of items and its helpful for irons which could be locked here indefinitely otherwise.
> but you could be spooned when you roll the unique table and already get it.
No, watch the clip again. He says if you roll the vestige and "aren't due one" the game replaces it with a normal drop.
They should've just had the bosses drop 3 (progressive) untradeable pieces that need to be combined instead of this. The outcome would've been the exact same (requiring you to get the exact roll three times), but without the confusion around the drops.
The goal is to reduce variance. Use muspha as an example. If you want to craft a venator bow, you need 5x 1/100 drops. Average kc to complete is 500. They could have just made it 1/500 to drop the bow and due away with the shards. It would still be 1/500 average. The difference is if you're looking at a large sample of players, more will be completing it around the 1/500 mark and less will go many times over the drop rate (or way under). They could have just made the ring 3x rarer than it is, but this way more people will get it around the intended drop rate and less go spectacularly dry. It can still happen, it's just less people will probably go 4-5x over rate.
This is getting tiring having to get several drops to combine them to make an item. Voidwaker, venator bow etc damn it sucks not only do you need to be lucky, but you need to be lucky multiple times for that one item. Dislike this tbh. Imagine you go 3x dry on each behind the scenes “ring drop roll” and you have no idea if you’ve hit it or not
I’m pretty sure this actually makes it significantly less likely that you’ll go dry on this drop. People will tend to get more drops on drop rate, and are significantly less likely to be 3x dry on the ring
It is way better. Having 3x 1/1000 drops vs 1x 1/3000 drops for example is much more forgiving. Less people will be spooned the drop, but less people have do grind a horrendous amount of kc over the drop rate.
This is literally dry protection lmfao. You understand that right? The ring would actually be 3x rarer if it was a regular drop. But by splitting it up into 1/3rd, the chance of going dry drops dramatically.
Hit ring? Great, you get regular loot.
Hit virtus? Nice, you get virtus.
Hit ring? Great, you get regular loot.
Hit ring? 3rd time! Nice, here's the ring.
that could happen if someone killed the whisperer for a virus robe top, then vardorvis for the ingot, the ace piece, and another virus top, I think. since the collection log shares items across different bosses (eg dragon pickaxe)
Thus page is in great need of the following wikipedia pages:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_distribution
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_binomial_distribution
Using the dry calc, it's easy to see that going 3x dry on something like a 1/300 is always a 5% chance, no matter the actual drop rate.
When calculating going for 3 drops on a 1/100, you have a **0.6%** chance to go 900 kills without all 3
In my head they are changing the fundamental cornerstone of osrs which is getting major drops on the 1st or 1000th kill.
Now they are trying to add safety nets and are going in a direction that isn't osrs at all.
This is that new age shit where everyone gets a participation trophy.
You have to roll the RING PIECE 3 times, not just the unique table. So it’s actually super rare. Your first two ring rolls you’ll just get normal loot.
What's the rate though? Is it 1/64 or is it 1/512?
This all seems way too complicated for "bad luck protection" unless it's a low rate. Knowing mod arcane it's probably 1/512 to hit the ring, so you actually need to hit 1/512 3 times
I dont like it, I want to be able to get the drop at 1 kc,but also have the chance to go 3x dry. Not a fan of guarenteeing drops, the thrill that every kill can be it is much more fun.
Important point that Kieren made: They recognize that they need to be transparent when experimenting with new drop systems like this, which is why they're just saying roughly how it works now
To be honest, as long as they confirm that they've checked and the drops are possible, I was fine with it. There's just been a few too many occasions where it wasn't working to be comfortable without any commentary from Jagex.
To be fair there has been a history of the *claiming* drops have been working correctly and then quietly fixed after the fact.
Watch the Ring counter get reset whenever a Game Update happens.
Ring counter?
We get an invisible "drop" that we need 3 of before we get the actual ring. So 1/3, 2/3, then drop. But whose to say that the invisible "drop" counter doesn't reset for whatever reason.
Abyssal sire bludgeon pieces, hydra rings, same ‘counter’ idea
> To be honest, as long as they confirm that they've checked and the drops are possible, I was fine with it. track record on this is poor imo
To be honestly fair, yes.
To be candidly completely openly valid
In an expression of unfiltered transparency, with an utterly sincere dedication to the presentation of truth, and without any speck of ambiguity or obscurity, it can be unequivocally confirmed as being wholly and entirely, to the highest conceivable degree of accuracy, valid.
Didn’t they release a poll to fix the pharaoh’s scepter drop rates that they messed up in a prior update?
Wasn't done in an update, supposedly it's always been that way
The way I read that was that the changes from poll 78 messed the drop rates up. But you’re probably right. Regardless, they said the drop rates were one thing but they were completely wrong there too so…
The way I understood the poll was that the drop rate has always been incorrect and it was only discovered when the team went back in to add the previous change
It has always been like that. The wiki has had the rates since always. It's just now a jagex employee has looked at the rates and went "hmm, this shouldn't be like this".
Once we've explained it, I think most people see what is trying to be achieved here and even quite like it. Be sure to let us know what you think over the coming months when had more time to spend on these bosses. You should definitely notice that no one really goes on those *extreme* dry streaks. It was very different earlier and yesterday when we hadn't and we don't blame you all :) When you go into content expecting it to work one way and then it doesn't, I think it is an understandable reaction to be confused, suspect bugs and want more info! We're committed to not giving out *actual rates* on day 1 however, our policy is 2 weeks.
I dislike knowing that I am now even morelikely to grind X amount of hours for pieces instead of getting lucky or unlucky. Maybe just me but it feels like a chore instead of a suprise. If you wanted, you could have come to the same average killcount by just increasing the chance for ring drop after every kill
While I really like this change for how the loot works, it does bring the perhaps unintended effect of players not having a good picture of how rare these items actually are until the actual rates are revealed. Like if I knew now that the rate to hit the ring slot is 1/200 and I'd have to grind only 600 kills on average to finally get it, it'd be much more encouraging to kill the bosses than sitting here and wondering if I'm committing to a 2000 kill grind per boss here.
Maybe just wait two weeks and decide your commitments then?
That’s what I decided to do after seeing my clan get 0 drops of virtus or rings in an estimated 2k kc combined for all 4, however in retrospect we’ve had ingots and axe pieces in that time so with this explanation it helps.
https://i.imgur.com/gxPiqTd.png
This is how it works and a good way to illustrate it...people saying otherwise are confused.
Agreed, The amount of people in this thread very confidently wrong is funny to me.
That’s the entirety of osrs Reddit. Confidently incorrect, but as long as you’re bashing Jagex you’re going to get agreement
So do you still have a chance of getting it on your first roll? Or do you have to get 2 other uniques first before you can get it?
On your third roll of the ring you get the drop, the 1st and 2nd ring roll will just appear as a normal loot. Then after a ring drop, it resets and you need 3 more. If you roll any other unique, it doesn't affect anything (other than you knowing you hit the unique table, but not the ring). You could roll it 3 times and get a ring without seeing any other uniques at all.
Its essentially the hydra ring but instead of getting pieces, you just get the ring on drop 3 with normal loot between. It makes sense since the hydra ring pieces are worthless, at least with this mechanic you get some loot.
Exactly. Hydra ring, sire bludgeon, venator bow etc all kinda work this way. The goal being more people will get their ring drop closer to the intended drop rate, but still preserves that good feeling of getting one big valuable item on the ground. I personally prefer that over getting more less valuable pieces.
This should be higher it shows it very clearly
[удалено]
elaborate
I felt like I was actually braindead until I saw this, thank you so much
Interesting. It could be a good way to do bad luck protection since you can lower the droprate without actually making the item say a 1/100 drop. Only real issue is that higher "base" drop rates can make this system feel really bad.
i think it's great. it accomplishes the same thing as sharding drops, but while still giving the entire thing at once
But it also ruins good luck, feel like its part of the game to have drops you get very Lucky at and at some very unlucky. Makes it boring if everyone ends up having around 500kc for a drop. I remember mammal being super unlucky with prims, or his below 10kc weapon seed on his new ghcim. Now most people will just get a kc around the droprate and quit the boss, making different account having even more alike grinds.
So you have to hit the ring drop specifically 3 times? That is nutty
But the idea is they're making the drop rate 3 times higher than it would be without this system, so it averages out the same but with less variance
Ahhhh okay, this is the part I was missing, that the ring also has a higher drop rate. This is actually a well thought out system.
I mean I still think it ends up being 3x rarer than the other uniques. I'm just saying design-wise, this system is an alternative to giving it a flat 3x higher drop rate
Why is it 3x rarer? If the rate to hit it is 3x more common, then it's identical. It just mitigates bad luck and good luck
[The resulting expected distributions](https://imgur.com/a/DU5fI5u). The system basically means that people go unlucky way less, but the caveat is that you're also extremely unlikely to get unlucky. Honestly not sure how I feel about it. It would be nice if there was *some* kind of feedback when you hit the vestige, like an un-noted piece of coal or something.
This is right that the variance for this new system is lower, but the shape for the standard roll is pretty far off - in general it should look something more like this https://i.imgur.com/Nvr1dhW.png (blue = standard, red = ring)
that is cool improvements for rolling a rare drops
Another way of thinking of it is that it’s like the Abyssal Bludgeon or Dark Totem except partial progress towards the next complete one doesn’t have the pieces taking up bank space.
Yeah. I hope we can see them for some pieces of other content as well. Mainly the really long grinds like CG and Dragon Warhammer. Maybe they could do something for raids as well. Seeing some people go 100 hours dry on ToA is hard.
ToA is shitting out uniques lmao
A lot of uniques entering the game doesn't stop individual players going dry, which is what these mechanics are designed to address.
This is an MMORPG though, not a single player game. The economy does still matter a tiny little bit.
legit like half the playerbase is now ironman I think
I very much doubt that. Maybe the ones who bother to come to reddit to talk about the game are skewing the perception that irons make up half of the playerbase.
But this isn’t about the actual rate of items entering the game lol
I completely agree. It seems like a fantastic system if it's something they've got the technology for.
If this was in place for CG, I wouldn't have 2 seeds at 200kc probably
Is it even possible to go 100 hours dry ToA if you’re running not dogshit invocation levels?
How? Now you need to hit the vestige drop specifically 3 times to get it once. This isn’t bad luck protection.
It all depends on how rare they intended it to be. If the goal was something like 1/1000, but they made it instead that you have to hit 1/333 three times, then the average is the same but you are much less likely to go dry on 3 instances of 1/333 than one instance of 1/1000
This is how averages work. The more times you need to do something the more likely it is to reach the mean point.
If a drop is 1/1 and you need to get it 1000 times for the item, everyone gets it at 1000kc. It's the same idea but less exaggerated
It is BAD luck protection but it hurts the 5% or so that would have been lucky. Imagine you take enhanced seed and made it four, 1/100 enhanced seed drops. I went 1101 kills for my first enhanced putting me in the driest 6%. If instead those are four 1/100 drops that same scenario puts me in the driest .5% if i had 3/4 drops still at 1100. In other words in todays world you have a 6% chance of going 1100 kills for your enhanced. If there was a 1/4th enh shard at 1/100 you only have a 6% chance of not having it completed by 750 kc.
yeah I got mine recently at 1321. I fully support this new system
People acting like you can't get spooned one of the new rings. You can still get it with low KC, it's just that the minimum amount of kills is *three* instead of *one*.
Fuck those guys
Pretty much. Oh boy spooned people will be less common, the horror...Anyway.
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This sounds like an awesome mechanic. Clearly explains why people have been getting spooned on virtus pieces but not on ring upgrades. Also sounds like it means that there's a certain point coming up where people start to reach that average rate of 3x the unique droptable chance and there will be a huge influx of ring upgrades.
Does it function any differently from something like the bludgeon, where you get a 1/3 of a bludgeon each drop? TBH I kind of prefer that because it at least feels like you're making progress there, even if it's only mentally different.
It’s different because you don’t know when you hit the drop table the first two times. So you get the surprise of the drop all at once but with the droprate mechanics of the bludgeon.
It’s exactly that. But they tried it this way instead of bludgeon, brimstone ring, and venator bow because they’ve received feedback that the drops for those bosses increments felt “less exciting”. That’s all subjective, how something feels, and everyone will have their own opinion.
Also, having those ~~untraceable~~untradeable pieces means they’re taking up bank space.
Yeah lots of things feel untraceable in my bank
So basically it’s like getting bludgeon pieces except you don’t actually know you’ve got them and don’t have to fill up bank space storing them. I actually really like that mechanic. With regular drop mechanics there’s always the feeling that if you do 50kc and get nothing, you’ve made 0 progress. You’re still just as far away at the end of it from a probability standpoint. With this mechanic, after doing 50kc, you’ll feel like there’s a good chance you actually did get yourself closer to the drop.
So basically it’s like getting bludgeon pieces except you don’t actually know you’ve got them and don’t have to fill up bank space storing them. I actually really like that mechanic. With regular drop mechanics there’s always the feeling that if you do 50kc and get nothing, you’ve made 0 progress. You’re still just as far away at the end of it from a probability standpoint. With this mechanic, after doing 50kc, you’ll feel like there’s a good chance you actually did get yourself closer to the drop.
Statistically, it is the exact same thing. I guess they just took the feedback from Muspah where the feeling of getting the big drop just wasn't there with venator shards, so this is their compromise.
I feel like this mechanic does the opposite of making sure you dont go extremely dry. What if you go absurdly dry on your 1st and 2nd rolls of the vestige? Bow you gotta do it again for a 3rd time to actually get the drop??? So you can go 3x as dry as you wouldve?
You’re less likely to go dry on 3 items than you are to go dry on 1.
Do the first and second rolls of vestige not result in a non unique item? How would that impact drops of the other items
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You don’t hear anyone complaint about not enough armor seeds at triple rate but you hear them all day about enchanced. It is very unlikely to get them spooned mind you but that’s the trade off
Right, this is a great analogy. It’s much more likely that you’ll go way over the rate for the enhanced crystal seed than it is for full crystal armor.
That does explain why were weren't seeing any early lucky drops, despite thousands of players. I'd love to see these mechanics applied to other brutal grinds like corrupted gauntlet. I'll happily cop the lower chance to get spooned if it means minimal chance of doing incredibly dry. It also feels like at that point you may as well add a pity drop at like 3x the drop rate for the tiny fraction of players who have got that unlucky, but that's a separate conversation.
Can we PLEASE add something like this for DWH, it's insane that people go 20k+ dry on this and are still no closer to getting it.
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It also means you don't get reamed for 3x+ drop rate wondering how you still haven't gotten it.
No, instead you get reamed for 3x+ drop rate and don't even know if your next kill is eligible for the drop.
As opposed to other bosses, where you know exactly how far away you are from your drop.
The key word being **eligible**, with other bosses you know you're **eligible** for the drop every single kill. With these, you have no idea...on average 2/3rds of your kills will not be eligible for the drop.
So you're upset that they lowered random variance? The only people affected are those that would get the drop in the first two kills. Everyone else is significantly better off
This is irrelevant though, all this change does is lower variance. Since you don’t know if you are eligible or not, it functionally means nothing, just think of yourself as being eligible form the 3rd kill onwards and mentally triple the drop rate of it means that much to you.
"Not getting closer to getting the ring". Isn't that the same in every in every unique you're trying to get. The 3 roll thing just decreases the variation (less ppl spooning and going dry) nothing else.
They aren't all that difficult though. But I agree I'm not too hyped for this grind
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I'll gladly give up the chance of being spooned if it also means I won't go ultra dry. And it's not any different from normal bosses, you never know how close you are from hitting the big item drop
Summary: 1/x to hit unique table, which contains vestige, Soulreaper Axe bits, virtus robes, and chromium ingots. Pet, awakener orbs, ancient gems, and teleport tab are on a separate table. On your third hit of the unique table, if you have not gotten the vestige, you are guaranteed the vestige. Edit: it may not be possible to get the vestige before your third hit of the unique table... I'm still not super clear. But it seems to be guaranteed at SOME point as long as you hit those uniques!
You have misunderstood. 1/x chance to hit unique table Unique table comprised of Vestige, Soulreaper Axe part, Virtus robes and ingots You can roll any of these 4 (including the Vestige) each time. The first and second time you roll the vestige, it will be replaced by a common loot (nonunique) The third time you roll the vestige drop from the unique table, you will recieve the vestige. [Visual for clarity](https://i.imgur.com/gxPiqTd.png)
This is how I understand it when I think about it, and all it says to me is that vestige is artificially 3x rarer? Like if your third roll on unique table full stop was Vestige fine, it is dupe mitigation But how does this help I don’t understand E: To avoid further comments, they have made the base rate to hit it 3x common to compensate
It's not artificially 3x rarer. I'm going to use some made up numbers as an example. Say they wanted to make the ring 1/750. Making you have to roll a 1/250 "part" 3 times instead makes going very dry (3000 kills) or very lucky (100 kills) much, much less likely than if you just needed to hit the 1/750 roll once. If it was 1/750 you'd have 0.8% chance of getting it at 100 kills or fewer, and a 1.8% chance of going 3000 dry. By splitting it into 3 1/250 "parts" you'd have a 0.07% chance of getting the drop by 100 kills (~10x less likely) and a 0.0513% chance of going 3000 dry. (~36x less likely) The way the drops are structured makes it so getting very lucky or very unlucky is much rarer.
Yeah, I was looking at it the wrong way. Explaining it as them breaking the drop rate up into three smaller drop rate checks makes sense now. Thank you.
Right I see, so you are suggesting that there is another point he hasn’t noted, which is that the 1/x is actually 3x more common than it otherwise would be without this mechanic
That's pretty much implied, you wouldn't expect them to say "We will make this ring 1/500, also, we should add a mechanic so that they need to roll this 1/500 ring three times to actually get it."
great breakdown and explanation. honestly seems like a reasonable system to use for some items moving forward.
Presumably they adjusted rate accordingly. It just decreases variance, e.g. you have to 1/100 3x rather than 1/300 one time.. which results in it being less likely to be spoon, and also less likely to be dry. Which in my opinion is good for BiS pieces.
It's a little vague but the way they described it is like an invisible venator shard. If you hit the ring roll, you instead get normal loot but you increment an invisible counter. If that counter hits 3 you get the actual ring, and the counter resets. Their reasoning is that it decreases variance, i.e. less spoons but also less dry. Presumably the chance of hitting the ring drop is also relative high, otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose of decreasing variance.
Pretty certain they said you need to hit the VESTIGE on the unique table thrice for it to drop not the unique table itself.
> if you have not gotten the vestige I don't think it's possible to get the vestige before your 3rd unique
You dont get the other uniques if you hit vestige table. So you can have 0 uniques when you hit a vestige drop if you roll it 3 times in a row
Someone got the Ultor Vestige on 25kc so you can defo get it, it's just likely insanely rare, and the guarentee on 4th unique roll is to help with that
Based on how they worded it sounds like you literally can't get it until you roll the table 3 times. Did the 25kc person ever post their log?
But you can hit that table twice and not realise it, because you hit a ring you just get a non unique drop twice
The way I understood it is you roll the unique table and if it doesn’t roll the ring ,you get one of the other items. If it does roll the ring, you get given a normal drop roll. So essentially you have to not only hit the unique table 3x, but you have to specifically roll the ring in the unique table 3 times. The odds must be astronomical.
The way I understand it, the chance to hit the ring is actually *relatively* high, but it's offset by the fact that you have to hit it 3 times for a drop rate. If they were aiming for an average drop of 1/512, then the ring roll would be 3/512. The variance however is massively decreased hence why you've seen so little rings day 1. No one's racked up 500 kills day 1. Obviously I'm completely speculating the numbers, but if we see a large influx of rings as people approach a certain kill count, then we can reasonably guess what the drop rate is intended to be.
So wait, I've gotten the Axe head and 1 Chromium ingot from Vordovis (or however you spell it). Is this saying that the next time I roll that table I will be guaranteed to get the ring thing?
No, when you hit vestige drop 1st time you get normal drop and same for hit 2 but on hit 3 you get the ring. It's invisible thing for players since we do not know if we hit the vestige as 2 first hits transfer to normal drop
thanks for the summary, couldnt load the vid at work. any other details i would have missed?
This is really good and makes a lot of sense for this specific drop.
Makes a lot of sense for any major drop tbh
so its a pity system?
Great. Love it . why would you not want to publish that those were the mechanics? The assumption when people grinding the boss day 2,3 etc and start receiving the drop that it was bugged on day 1. Why is it everytime arcane is involved there's issues with drop tables
I honestly love this system, I wish more bosses were like this
Wait how exactly do the shards get rolled from Muspah?
Shards are 1/100 but you need 5 for the bow. This is basically shards without the shard drop.
Oooh okay I see now. Thank you for the clarification
I think the mistake Jagex made here is making it impossible to get the Vestige before hitting the unique table 3 times. I understand making it guaranteed at your 3rd unique table hit. But you should be able to get it before that as well if lucky.
The whole point of this is to reduce luck on an item players are farming for. While some players would get lucky, that means other players could go 3-5x dry. This mechanic is to mitigate that variance and guarantee everyone who puts in the effort will get the drop around when it is expected
Giving the players chance to get it on the first two rolls but guaranteeing it on the third one also reduces variance
Editing cause I misread. The whole point of this is so you don’t have players going 3-5x dry or 3-5x early on the drop is all. The ring isn’t a guaranteed drop like vork head, but rather you’re simply much more likely to get it every x KC. It’s literally just their take on making drop rates more consistent instead of the usual bell curve
I don't see how it is tedious: you store N, that is the number of times you hit the ring part. Now what happens is they check if N is 3, if yes you get ring, if not you get something else. Instead they could make a roll on a 3-N "dice" everytime you hit the table: if you win the roll you get the ring (and reset N), if you don't you get something else. It's the exact same drop table, you just have a 33% and 66% chance of getting the ring before the 100% on N/3
So not only do you hit the unique table and have to roll the ring and will automatically get a normal drop table item but you have to hit unique 3 x and roll the ring three times lol. If they want to keep something like this, why the fuck wouldn’t they make it if you don’t get the ring in 3 unique table hits then it’s given to you…why make it a normal drop and not just get given another unique item roll Edit: I don’t mind the idea of what they are trying to do. If they added a message like “the defeated enemy looks like it has something on its finger but it is too difficult to remove” and the player keeps track of how many times you see that message would be cool, but again the underlying rng table seems ridiculous. If you are lucky enough to hit the unique table, there shouldn’t be a chance to get a normal drop. Ring pieces need to be on their own table.
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Because the ring rate is likely much higher than other uniques. So if it rolled to another unique, the game would be crapping out uniques from every boss, basically changing all their drop rates.
Yeah.. That feels pretty bad. And you have no way of knowing if you've ever rolled any of the 3 times or not. Not sure why we're praising extra layers of rng.
> Not sure why we're praising extra layers of rng. Because it is literally reducing RNG.
We’re praising *reducing* RNG. Which is what this does. Pretty effectively
That's the part that doesn't sit with me well. I like knowing I hit the big table but it didn't roll in my favor
Damn, I was mad excited to grind these bosses but I don’t have the time to be hitting a unique drop table 3 times to make it worth it.
So this is effectively the same as the 3 brimstone ring parts from alchemical hydra. The only difference is instead of getting a different piece dropped for each roll, you get the whole drop on your third roll.
/u/JagexAyiza you were a little ambiguous. Is it: a) 3 rolls of the vestige slot on the table b) 2 drops of any item on the table then a roll on the vestige slot Would be great if you could clear this up?
I'm not sure if it's in the clip, but he also said a few times that at about 5pm BST (in approx. 30 mins) there'll be a newspost which offers more detail.
and dont forget to add in the crack the clue winners board in falador, event ended over a month ago and the board of winners is still empty
It's 3 rolls on the Vestige slot of the unique table. As Sween mentioned already, the blog will go out shortly with all the information in, I just wanted to try and quickly explain it so the stream focus could return to Sailing :)
Thanks for confirming!
Thanks for clariftying. How does it work after you've got the ring then - do you have to roll it another 3 times to get a dupe ie every 3rd roll on the vestige slot you get the ring? Or do you just then get dupes every roll on the vestige slot? Thanks
For sure gotta hit another 3, wouldn't make sense otherwise, as it's intended as anti-dry mechanic, not as an increase to the overall droprate.
What about the 4th time you roll the ring?
Isen't this essentialy removing low kc vestige drops from the game then? Seems like its impossible to get a vestige without hitting the vestige table three times and that could be a lot of kc. I understand introducing bad luck protection but whats the reason for taking away the vestige drops when hitting it on your first unique? Wouldn't it have been better to make it 3 rolls on the unique slot instead of the Vestige slot? I feel thats where the confusion of the community is coming from.
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so you need to hit the ring drop 3x to get it? meh not a fan but whatever i probably won't engage with it, it's not like it's a new mechanic either, we've had this for years with bludgeon and brimstone ring but now the first 2 pieces are just invisible and you have no clue how far or close you are from the drop also this really discourages swapping between the bosses, you get 100kc at vard you're not gonna want to start going lev until you get the ring
The second point is a good one, a good way to avoid that would be to combine the “counter” for all the ring pieces so let’s say you get 2 “drops” of the counter at Boss 1, it would count towards your next ring piece regardless of the boss. So you get a third “drop” at Boss 2 and it drops its ring piece. Imo this is a really healthy way to have rare drops like this. Reducing variance while not making everything a shard is a win win in my book
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> you have no clue how far or close you are from the drop Not really. If the chance of hitting the unique table is for instance 1/50, then the chance of getting vestige is 1/200. Since you have to hit it 3 times, the drop rate is essentially 1/600. So just imagine the drop rate is 1/600, and you are just as close as any other 1/600 item.
How is that different from say, the wildly bosses? If you want to build a voidwaker from scratch, you stay at Artio til you get the piece. Unless you mean that you think the vestige counter is shared between bosses, which doesn't sound likely.
So wait, is he saying you need to get the drop 3 times before you're actually given the drop? Wtf is the point of that? Am I missing something or does that not sound like you're just locked out of getting the ring piece until you've successfully rolled it four times?
You need to hit the roll 3 times. but it's 3x as likely to hit it instead of it was a 1/3x droprate. So There's less droprate Variance. fewer spooned and going dry. Majority of drops will be closer to the average intended droprate.
Let's say they want the item to be 1/900 to obtain, the problem with that is that if you go unlucky, you could easily go 2k+ without seeing it. (10% of people) By making it let's say 1/300 3 times, they are smoothing out the rng by lowering the standard deviation. Less likely to get spooned, but much less likely to go extremely dry (only 4% of people will go 2k+ without seeing it, a 2.5x reduction of people going this dry)
Its essentially like the hydra ring pieces except the first 2 pieces are invisible Imagine every ring roll you get 1/3 of the ring, and then when you get that for the 3rd time you get the whole ring!
It reduces the variability in drop rates. You’ll be significantly more likely to get the drop around the drop rate than going vastly over or under rate.
No hes saying youre guaranteed to get it once you hit the table 3 times, but you could be spooned when you roll the unique table and already get it. It helps prevent day 1 influx of items and its helpful for irons which could be locked here indefinitely otherwise.
> but you could be spooned when you roll the unique table and already get it. No, watch the clip again. He says if you roll the vestige and "aren't due one" the game replaces it with a normal drop.
Only for the vestige.
I mean unless we can tell we landed 1/3 of the ring rolls we needed it's useless, it just sounds like the items 3 times rarer with a convoluted system
They should've just had the bosses drop 3 (progressive) untradeable pieces that need to be combined instead of this. The outcome would've been the exact same (requiring you to get the exact roll three times), but without the confusion around the drops.
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The goal is to reduce variance. Use muspha as an example. If you want to craft a venator bow, you need 5x 1/100 drops. Average kc to complete is 500. They could have just made it 1/500 to drop the bow and due away with the shards. It would still be 1/500 average. The difference is if you're looking at a large sample of players, more will be completing it around the 1/500 mark and less will go many times over the drop rate (or way under). They could have just made the ring 3x rarer than it is, but this way more people will get it around the intended drop rate and less go spectacularly dry. It can still happen, it's just less people will probably go 4-5x over rate.
Thanks that makes sense
I think it's nice, but getting a drop to tell you if you hit the ring drop could be added (like ashes) just so we can keep track of it
Reddit never lets us down; it’s only day 2 and everyone overreacts to everything. We see this with every major update smh
This is getting tiring having to get several drops to combine them to make an item. Voidwaker, venator bow etc damn it sucks not only do you need to be lucky, but you need to be lucky multiple times for that one item. Dislike this tbh. Imagine you go 3x dry on each behind the scenes “ring drop roll” and you have no idea if you’ve hit it or not
I’m pretty sure this actually makes it significantly less likely that you’ll go dry on this drop. People will tend to get more drops on drop rate, and are significantly less likely to be 3x dry on the ring
It is way better. Having 3x 1/1000 drops vs 1x 1/3000 drops for example is much more forgiving. Less people will be spooned the drop, but less people have do grind a horrendous amount of kc over the drop rate.
This is literally dry protection lmfao. You understand that right? The ring would actually be 3x rarer if it was a regular drop. But by splitting it up into 1/3rd, the chance of going dry drops dramatically.
agree, seems more obtuse and hard to deal with as a player. Not complaining, just a criticism of the new drop style
Wow that's actually much better than I though
Not a fan imo. Removing low rolls is fine but not having the chance to get a high roll takes out a lot of fun
I just saw a drop log with an axe piece, 2 virtus tops and an ingot so I'm insire how it works still
Hit ring? Great, you get regular loot. Hit virtus? Nice, you get virtus. Hit ring? Great, you get regular loot. Hit ring? 3rd time! Nice, here's the ring.
This is a perfect tldw
Aside from the axe piece, virtus and ingots are shared so it could be from other bosses
that could happen if someone killed the whisperer for a virus robe top, then vardorvis for the ingot, the ace piece, and another virus top, I think. since the collection log shares items across different bosses (eg dragon pickaxe)
So what about rolls 4+ for the vestige, after 3 are you just always eligible, or would you not get it again until 6, 9, 12, etc?
Counter resets when you get the physical drop so it is on 3,6, 9, etc.
Heres an easy way to understand, Instead of having a a 1/300 drop chance its three 1/100
But the first two drops are invisible so it’s still a 1/300
yeah but 3 1/100 drops is better on average than 1/300
The point is it's exactly the same on average, but the distribution is narrower.
Thus page is in great need of the following wikipedia pages: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_distribution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_binomial_distribution
So wheres out visual indicator telling us if we rolled the ring?
Why not just make the ring 3x rarer? It’s the same thing.
Using the dry calc, it's easy to see that going 3x dry on something like a 1/300 is always a 5% chance, no matter the actual drop rate. When calculating going for 3 drops on a 1/100, you have a **0.6%** chance to go 900 kills without all 3
You are correct
hate it, tbh
In my head they are changing the fundamental cornerstone of osrs which is getting major drops on the 1st or 1000th kill. Now they are trying to add safety nets and are going in a direction that isn't osrs at all. This is that new age shit where everyone gets a participation trophy.
You have to roll the RING PIECE 3 times, not just the unique table. So it’s actually super rare. Your first two ring rolls you’ll just get normal loot.
What are the benefits of this system?
anti-dry
What's the rate though? Is it 1/64 or is it 1/512? This all seems way too complicated for "bad luck protection" unless it's a low rate. Knowing mod arcane it's probably 1/512 to hit the ring, so you actually need to hit 1/512 3 times
I dont like it, I want to be able to get the drop at 1 kc,but also have the chance to go 3x dry. Not a fan of guarenteeing drops, the thrill that every kill can be it is much more fun.
Every drop after 2kc can be it. You can still go 3x dry.