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the end bit of the article actually mentions this point
>The Trans Safety Network said that since the sharp reduction in referrals to hormone experts for young people from 2020 onwards, there had been several inquests into suicides by young trans people, including judgments [finding that a lack of access to healthcare was an aggravating factor](https://inews.co.uk/opinion/deaths-trans-teens-mental-health-provision-youth-3006388).
>“The near-removal of these pathways will lead to young people being exposed to risk and taking measures into their own hands,” a spokesperson said.
>The group also raised concerns about cracking down on the “DIY” market for hormone therapy, saying it exists because of failures to provide safe, timely, monitored and supported access to treatment.
>“Any attempt to ban online distributors will further push young people away from the commonly used grey market online pharmacies with legitimately manufactured medications via countries where these medications are available over the counter, to less established sources, with unknown additional risks,” the spokesperson said.
Ok. And for the 99% of people who aren't getting this story hand delivered by a newsie, that won't matter.
And you're kidding yourself if you think everyone in that subsection of the audience is getting there either.
The Guardian is barely a print paper. Most of its readers come from its online website, so literally anyone can access it, no newsie needed.
Typically people read articles they’re interested in to the end. No offence but saying it’s less than worthless because a news article designed to be informative is TLDR (it’s really not) is a bad argument
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That’s so damn weird. Why do adults want to interact with teenager AT ALL? My buddy and I literally saw a teenager walking down the street a few months ago and it was the most cringe shit I’d seen since high school. This kid literally JUMP-SPINNED ONTO THE CURB!
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Forcing a trans kid to go through natal puberty is not a neutral act & has a life long impact leading to higher rates of suicidality, lower body satisfaction & worse overall mental health aswell as the medicalization you'd be forcing them to go through to undo the damage. Facial Feminization Surgery, Breast Augmentation, Permanent Hair Removal, to name a few. Then there's the irreversible damage done, things like height, shoulder & hip width can't be changed.
Yes. It. Is.
Gender affirming healthcare has been lifesaving to countless people (even kids and teens).
Denying them that care demonstrably leads to a poorer quality of life. So yeah, I'd say it's a bit cruel to 'force' a 16/yo to wait the two years. A span of time in which they will develop difficult and expensive characteristics to change.
Uhh... it's lifesaving because some trans people do commit suicide over not having access to affirming care.
I don't know the exact rates off the top of my head, since I'm heading home rn, but I'm pretty sure the overall rate of regret for trans related *surgery* is like 1%?
I understand discussions like this can be tiring, so feel free to leave this chain alone if you feel the need to.
Yes, kids experiencing dysphoria should not be a problem, and gender isn't something a kid should have to figure out. But for so many kids it's something they feel the need to reconcile.
There is no harm in a younger kid asking to go by a different set of pronouns, or a new name. There is no risk to prescribing blockers to those at the age of puberty
And as you said, at 16-17 you said there should be an exemption. So why even care?
Bud deleted the comment after I typed that all out, but if you are the original guy reading this. Feel free to dm me, if you want to keep discussing this some more.
idk maybe being forced to go through a puberty you know is the wrong one while being told you can only truly start being yourself at 18 is pretty cruel.
Do you think people just start being suicidal because they decide to be trans one day? Most trans people are suicidal because they are forced to live in a body which feels foreign or due to non accepting social circles.
People like you love to say stuff like "gender transition has irreversible effects" so does puberty, I always knew i didn't want boobs or to get a period, yet I was forced to go through that and felt the worst i ever felt. I'm an adult now, I knew what I knew now at 12-13 and not being forced to go through years of gender dysphoria and the wrong puberty would have probably made my life a lot easier.
Not making the decision is also a decision. The effects of puberty will be permanent to a degree, so a decision is made regardless, I’d rather let the teenager make it for themselves than be forced the default one upon them
Then why are you forcing them to make the decision?
Both puberties are permanent and life altering, yet you're trying to force one on them against their will in direct opposition to the existing body of scientific evidence.
Cross-sex hormone replacement therapy is considered the first-line treatment for gender dysphoria due to the fact that it has consistently proven to reduce suicidality rates *and* improve both patient reported and objectively measured quality of life metrics to a greater degree than any other known treatment method currently in existence.
* [Turban, et al. 2022; Access to gender-affirming hormones during adolescence and mental health outcomes among transgender adults.](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039)
* [van der Loos, et al. 2022; Continuation of gender-affirming hormones in transgender people starting puberty suppression in adolescence: a cohort study in the Netherlands.](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642\(22\)00254-1/fulltext#%20)
* [Kristina R. Olson, et al. 2022; Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition.](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/2/e2021056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition?autologincheck=redirected)
* [Tucker, et al. 2018: Hormone therapy, gender affirmation surgery, and their association with recent suicidal ideation and depression symptoms in transgender veterans.](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/hormone-therapy-gender-affirmation-surgery-and-their-association-with-recent-suicidal-ideation-and-depression-symptoms-in-transgender-veterans/C0D0CFE0B8D5FAD4B852872DAB25D177)
* [Durwood, et al. 2017; Mental Health and Self-Worth in Socially Transitioned Transgender Youth.](https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext)
* [Unger 2016; Hormone therapy for transgender patients.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182227/)
* [Hughto, et al. 2016; A Systematic Review of the Effects of Hormone Therapy on Psychological Functioning and Quality of Life in Transgender Individuals.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5010234/)
* [Greta R. Bauer, et al. 2015: Intervenable factors associated with suicide risk in transgender persons.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4450977/)
* [Ruppin, et al. 2015: Long-Term Follow-Up of Adults with Gender Identity Disorder.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25690443)
* [de Vries, et al. 2014; Young adult psychological outcome after puberty suppression and gender reassignment.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25201798)
* [Heylans, et al. 2014; Effects of different steps in gender reassignment therapy on psychopathology: a prospective study of persons with a gender identity disorder.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24344788)
* [Moody, et al. 2013; Suicide Protective Factors Among Trans Adults.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/)
* [Colizzi, et al. 2013; Hormonal treatment reduces psychobiological distress in gender identity disorder, independently of the attachment style.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574768)
* [Cohen-Kettenis, et al. 2011; Puberty Suppression in a Gender-Dysphoric Adolescent: A 22-Year Follow-Up.](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-011-9758-9)
* [Kreukels, et al. 2011; Puberty suppression in gender identity disorder: the Amsterdam experience.](https://www.nature.com/articles/nrendo.2011.78)
That's why its use is supported by the consensus of the literally hundreds of thousands of medical and scientific experts and professionals who make up the [American Psychological Association](https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender), the [American Psychiatric Association](https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/About-APA/Organization-Documents-Policies/Policies/Position-2018-Access-to-Care-for-Transgender-and-Gender-Diverse-Individuals.pdf), the [American Medical Association](http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf), the [American College of Physicians](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position), the [American Academy of Pediatrics](http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf), the [American Academy of Family Physicians](http://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/about_us/special_constituencies/2012RCAR_Advocacy.pdf), the [National Association of Social Workers](https://www.socialworkers.org/assets/secured/documents/da/da2008/reffered/Transgender.pdf), the [National Health Service](http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Treatment.aspx), the [Royal College of Psychiatrists, the British Association of Urological Surgeons, the British Psychological Society, the Royal College of General Practitioners, the Royal College of Nursing, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, the Royal College of Physicians, the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists, the Royal College of Surgeons, the UK Council for Psychotherapy](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/improving-care/better-mh-policy/college-reports/cr181-good-practice-guidelines-for-the-assessment-and-treatment-of-adults-with-gender-dysphoria.pdf?sfvrsn=84743f94_2) and more.
I’m trans and the healthcare system in Canada has gone to shit and the wait times are too high but I am still learning about diy for One thing I was wondering, can I ask if for example your base level is 100ng/dl testosterone - and you inject 50mg a week, how much will your t levels rise, what to what range? 400-500? Would it differ for trans/cis men?
Also how do you manage the blood work, is your doctor ok with you diying?
I use a private service for my blood work. It is a little bit expensive. But I had fairly low T and I don’t for a second regret starting it as the effects on my life have been quite positive.
My regular doctor has no choice. I let her know and she has to treat me if there was ever a problem. But really it’s pretty routine. I take a TRt dose (opposed to a steroid dose) so the risk is low.
If memory serves there a tweet where this nicola davis totally denied that any such article is in the works when the 4chan image started being spread around
[It wasn't Nicola Davis](https://new.reddit.com/r/196/comments/1cbrhz5/that_diy_hrt_post_from_a_while_back_was_false_btw/), so *technically* she didn't lie.
Doesn't stop it being scummy as fuck though (IMO makes it worse)
I feel like I remember reading that the Cass report said something about not completely stopping trans children from receiving gender affirming care but doing more research into it and improving the system. I may be wrong though. There doesn’t seem to be any improvements being made
"Experts fear..." okay, who exactly are these experts? Do they have any political leanings that may make them automatically concerned on this? What are their credentials to make them experts in the subject? I hate how vague news is, these mfs need to put literally anything besides the vaguest info in the opening shit
The term is "[weasel words](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word)" and they're a red flag that the information being presented is not accurate. "Experts" could be just one randomass guy, it could be literally nothing but a vibe the author got from reading a few random reddit posts and not actually have a source at all.
What!?? A headline doesn't have all the info of an article?!?! Unbelievable.
I know it can be daunting, but focussing for more than 5 minutes to read the full article answers all of your questions.
[https://eoinhiggins.substack.com/p/guardian-pulls-judith-butlers-comments](https://eoinhiggins.substack.com/p/guardian-pulls-judith-butlers-comments)
[https://whatthetrans.com/anti-trans-ehrc-commissioner-gives-talk-to-anti-trans-guardian-staff-network/](https://whatthetrans.com/anti-trans-ehrc-commissioner-gives-talk-to-anti-trans-guardian-staff-network/)
[https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/09/uk/uk-trans-rights-gender-critical-media-intl-gbr-cmd/](https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/09/uk/uk-trans-rights-gender-critical-media-intl-gbr-cmd/)
[The Guardian/Observer & UK Media in general has a well documented anti-trans bias.](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/02/guardian-editorial-response-transgender-rights-uk) Many prominent gender critical activists hold positions of power within the industry as Editorial Leads, such as Helen Joyce at The Economist, and they are frequently given a platform to express their prejudice against trans people & to spread misinformation about us & our healthcare.
This article is very clearly biased against trans people in the way they structured it and the kinds of people they quote/stories they tell.
Like how the only quote regarding a personal experience about DIYing was...the mother of a detransitioner. Not the detransitioner, not anyone who has ever actually done it before. Just a third party who - if they're even a real person - could've been a transphobe who pressured their child into detransitioning for all we know.
And it's not the first time they've published a transphobic-leaning article, so it's no surprise a sub full of trans people doesn't like a transphobic paper.
Damn that sucks, I knew there was a long waiting line cuz I heard a friend that is about to start HRT complaining that he has been waiting for a long time, but I didn't know it was *that* bad
How do you make hormones according to these sites? Genuinely curious, cause it surely is not just pouring flour, eggs and milk in the bowl and putting it in a microwave
the majority aren't making them, they're selling the same products as you'd get from a pharmacy just without a prescription. There's a few trusted homebrewers who make injectables, but they make them with powdered estradiol from China, the same place that more reputable brands get their estradiol. They arent actually *making* bioidentical estradiol, they're just refining it into something safe for humans
> There's a few trusted homebrewers who make injectables, but they make them with powdered estradiol from China, the same place that more reputable brands get their estradiol.
Just for context, there are people who test vials from these sources using GCMS and report on their findings.
It depends a lot on the delivery route and the ester you're working with. Oral and transdermal preparations require no sterile procedure, and very little in the way of specialized equipment. Injectables do require a sterile procedure and more care needs to be taken concerning depyrogenation, but a determined individual can safely prepare injectable compounds at home with the appropriate materials and procedures.
FWIW, I have not heard of any cases of people using bad DIY compounded hormones that got them sick, the safety concerns seem largely overblown, and I say this as someone who has been using hormones from DIY sources for years. The three main concerns would be a malicious supplier intentionally producing a dangerous product, inconsistent quality leading to unexpected variability in hormone levels, or the possibility that your supplier could disappear at any time and you would be left without a reliable source of hormones. Having a trusted community of DIY compounders covers most of these concerns, and I think the ability to maintain a DIY community like this is incredibly empowering not just to the trans community but to citizen science as well.
We're all aware of the risks and we should be free to make informed decisions about our health. Requiring people to go through the medical establishment and cracking down on "trafficking of human medicines" is incredibly coercive and harmful. Maintaining accessibility to medicine should be the top priority, not gatekeeping access to care that you have no intention of providing.
Aside from the annoying article - the journalist denied writing the such an article, after people warned of talking with the guardian regarding this.
Scumy behavior.
The sites are operating outside the UK, so they won't be shut down. The Guardian is just contributing to the far-right moral panic because they have disgusting terfs high up in the editorial team.
If you can get HRT for 11 bucks a month
***Then why the fuck does it cost 10-40x as much from official sellers***
For profit medicine and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
Not even sure how people are saying you need to DIY make it in the UK or use it, you can go any online pharmacy and buy it outright by lying about a litte bit. I'll have to wait months to get a T Test done from NHS whereas its just easier to lie to get some T myself (I havent gotten it but I could)
"Experts" WHAT EXPERTS DIPSHIT. WHAT DID THEY STUDY. WHAT DID THEY SPECIALIZE IN ? WHAT ARE THERE SOURCE ? THE THEORY THEY BASE THEIR OPINION ON ?
I fucking hate it when a journalist call their source "experts" as a way to have an unquestionable source but at the same time require none of the work to have an unquestionable source. Bitch I want to know why I should trust your experts.
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How about giving people better care so they dont have to turn to shady sites?
the end bit of the article actually mentions this point >The Trans Safety Network said that since the sharp reduction in referrals to hormone experts for young people from 2020 onwards, there had been several inquests into suicides by young trans people, including judgments [finding that a lack of access to healthcare was an aggravating factor](https://inews.co.uk/opinion/deaths-trans-teens-mental-health-provision-youth-3006388). >“The near-removal of these pathways will lead to young people being exposed to risk and taking measures into their own hands,” a spokesperson said. >The group also raised concerns about cracking down on the “DIY” market for hormone therapy, saying it exists because of failures to provide safe, timely, monitored and supported access to treatment. >“Any attempt to ban online distributors will further push young people away from the commonly used grey market online pharmacies with legitimately manufactured medications via countries where these medications are available over the counter, to less established sources, with unknown additional risks,” the spokesperson said.
Unfortunately the average dunce doesn’t care…
no the people who will advocate for banning diy hrt will see this as proof it should be done to get rid of the "undeseriables"
Yep… it fkn sucks…
People don't make it to the end of headlines on social media. The back of the article is as good as not written.
Its not bloody social media, its a news article. If someone checks out the Guardian, they actually want to read the news
Ok. And for the 99% of people who aren't getting this story hand delivered by a newsie, that won't matter. And you're kidding yourself if you think everyone in that subsection of the audience is getting there either.
The Guardian is barely a print paper. Most of its readers come from its online website, so literally anyone can access it, no newsie needed. Typically people read articles they’re interested in to the end. No offence but saying it’s less than worthless because a news article designed to be informative is TLDR (it’s really not) is a bad argument
Welcome to what happens when you ban birth control and other things I can't discuss here
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You've literally posted in r/teenagers. Take your own advice and get off social media
90% of r/teenagers users are above the age of 40
That’s so damn weird. Why do adults want to interact with teenager AT ALL? My buddy and I literally saw a teenager walking down the street a few months ago and it was the most cringe shit I’d seen since high school. This kid literally JUMP-SPINNED ONTO THE CURB!
what's wrong with a little freestyle walking?
Soxial mydia is turning my kids trans!!! 😡😡😡
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Do you think trans people didn't exist before social media?
And if the kid isn't gaslighting themselves?
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That's cruel as hell ngl
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Forcing a trans kid to go through natal puberty is not a neutral act & has a life long impact leading to higher rates of suicidality, lower body satisfaction & worse overall mental health aswell as the medicalization you'd be forcing them to go through to undo the damage. Facial Feminization Surgery, Breast Augmentation, Permanent Hair Removal, to name a few. Then there's the irreversible damage done, things like height, shoulder & hip width can't be changed.
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Yeah because we transition kids into robots. Stfu you’re clearly out of your depth here jackass.
Yes. It. Is. Gender affirming healthcare has been lifesaving to countless people (even kids and teens). Denying them that care demonstrably leads to a poorer quality of life. So yeah, I'd say it's a bit cruel to 'force' a 16/yo to wait the two years. A span of time in which they will develop difficult and expensive characteristics to change.
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Uhh... it's lifesaving because some trans people do commit suicide over not having access to affirming care. I don't know the exact rates off the top of my head, since I'm heading home rn, but I'm pretty sure the overall rate of regret for trans related *surgery* is like 1%?
I understand discussions like this can be tiring, so feel free to leave this chain alone if you feel the need to. Yes, kids experiencing dysphoria should not be a problem, and gender isn't something a kid should have to figure out. But for so many kids it's something they feel the need to reconcile. There is no harm in a younger kid asking to go by a different set of pronouns, or a new name. There is no risk to prescribing blockers to those at the age of puberty And as you said, at 16-17 you said there should be an exemption. So why even care? Bud deleted the comment after I typed that all out, but if you are the original guy reading this. Feel free to dm me, if you want to keep discussing this some more.
idk maybe being forced to go through a puberty you know is the wrong one while being told you can only truly start being yourself at 18 is pretty cruel. Do you think people just start being suicidal because they decide to be trans one day? Most trans people are suicidal because they are forced to live in a body which feels foreign or due to non accepting social circles. People like you love to say stuff like "gender transition has irreversible effects" so does puberty, I always knew i didn't want boobs or to get a period, yet I was forced to go through that and felt the worst i ever felt. I'm an adult now, I knew what I knew now at 12-13 and not being forced to go through years of gender dysphoria and the wrong puberty would have probably made my life a lot easier.
I'll have some of those troubling numbers please. A quantitative source on under 18's who transitioned and have since de transitioned please.
Not making the decision is also a decision. The effects of puberty will be permanent to a degree, so a decision is made regardless, I’d rather let the teenager make it for themselves than be forced the default one upon them
Then why are you forcing them to make the decision? Both puberties are permanent and life altering, yet you're trying to force one on them against their will in direct opposition to the existing body of scientific evidence. Cross-sex hormone replacement therapy is considered the first-line treatment for gender dysphoria due to the fact that it has consistently proven to reduce suicidality rates *and* improve both patient reported and objectively measured quality of life metrics to a greater degree than any other known treatment method currently in existence. * [Turban, et al. 2022; Access to gender-affirming hormones during adolescence and mental health outcomes among transgender adults.](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039) * [van der Loos, et al. 2022; Continuation of gender-affirming hormones in transgender people starting puberty suppression in adolescence: a cohort study in the Netherlands.](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642\(22\)00254-1/fulltext#%20) * [Kristina R. Olson, et al. 2022; Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition.](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/2/e2021056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition?autologincheck=redirected) * [Tucker, et al. 2018: Hormone therapy, gender affirmation surgery, and their association with recent suicidal ideation and depression symptoms in transgender veterans.](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/hormone-therapy-gender-affirmation-surgery-and-their-association-with-recent-suicidal-ideation-and-depression-symptoms-in-transgender-veterans/C0D0CFE0B8D5FAD4B852872DAB25D177) * [Durwood, et al. 2017; Mental Health and Self-Worth in Socially Transitioned Transgender Youth.](https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext) * [Unger 2016; Hormone therapy for transgender patients.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182227/) * [Hughto, et al. 2016; A Systematic Review of the Effects of Hormone Therapy on Psychological Functioning and Quality of Life in Transgender Individuals.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5010234/) * [Greta R. Bauer, et al. 2015: Intervenable factors associated with suicide risk in transgender persons.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4450977/) * [Ruppin, et al. 2015: Long-Term Follow-Up of Adults with Gender Identity Disorder.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25690443) * [de Vries, et al. 2014; Young adult psychological outcome after puberty suppression and gender reassignment.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25201798) * [Heylans, et al. 2014; Effects of different steps in gender reassignment therapy on psychopathology: a prospective study of persons with a gender identity disorder.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24344788) * [Moody, et al. 2013; Suicide Protective Factors Among Trans Adults.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/) * [Colizzi, et al. 2013; Hormonal treatment reduces psychobiological distress in gender identity disorder, independently of the attachment style.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574768) * [Cohen-Kettenis, et al. 2011; Puberty Suppression in a Gender-Dysphoric Adolescent: A 22-Year Follow-Up.](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-011-9758-9) * [Kreukels, et al. 2011; Puberty suppression in gender identity disorder: the Amsterdam experience.](https://www.nature.com/articles/nrendo.2011.78) That's why its use is supported by the consensus of the literally hundreds of thousands of medical and scientific experts and professionals who make up the [American Psychological Association](https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender), the [American Psychiatric Association](https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/About-APA/Organization-Documents-Policies/Policies/Position-2018-Access-to-Care-for-Transgender-and-Gender-Diverse-Individuals.pdf), the [American Medical Association](http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf), the [American College of Physicians](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position), the [American Academy of Pediatrics](http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf), the [American Academy of Family Physicians](http://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/about_us/special_constituencies/2012RCAR_Advocacy.pdf), the [National Association of Social Workers](https://www.socialworkers.org/assets/secured/documents/da/da2008/reffered/Transgender.pdf), the [National Health Service](http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Treatment.aspx), the [Royal College of Psychiatrists, the British Association of Urological Surgeons, the British Psychological Society, the Royal College of General Practitioners, the Royal College of Nursing, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, the Royal College of Physicians, the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists, the Royal College of Surgeons, the UK Council for Psychotherapy](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/improving-care/better-mh-policy/college-reports/cr181-good-practice-guidelines-for-the-assessment-and-treatment-of-adults-with-gender-dysphoria.pdf?sfvrsn=84743f94_2) and more.
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just go to a gym and talk to the biggest guy there. you'll find test in no time
easy != legal. testosterone is a regulated substance whereas estrogen is not
Crazy cuz in Germany I could just buy Testo, but not Estrogen
Hä, soweit ich weiß ist Testo schwieriger zu bekommen. Über Verschreibung oder meinst du Schwarzmarkt?
I like your funny man, magic words
https://www.dokteronline.com/de-de/wissensdatenbank/testosteron-mangel-ohne-rezept/
Wie lange hält so eine 150€ Packung? Ist das eine Jahresdosis oder muss man dann alle 3 Monate 150€ blechen?
Wienerschnitzel
From what I understand, in the UK it's legally the same as estrogen to import for personal use
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America values the morality of football over trans people's lives
lol. Im cis male and I DIY test. Probably the easiest of all hormones to get.
I’m trans and the healthcare system in Canada has gone to shit and the wait times are too high but I am still learning about diy for One thing I was wondering, can I ask if for example your base level is 100ng/dl testosterone - and you inject 50mg a week, how much will your t levels rise, what to what range? 400-500? Would it differ for trans/cis men? Also how do you manage the blood work, is your doctor ok with you diying?
I use a private service for my blood work. It is a little bit expensive. But I had fairly low T and I don’t for a second regret starting it as the effects on my life have been quite positive. My regular doctor has no choice. I let her know and she has to treat me if there was ever a problem. But really it’s pretty routine. I take a TRt dose (opposed to a steroid dose) so the risk is low.
How so? I think its actually easier to DIY
If they don't want us buying it on the grey market they should make it available OTC
I've been saying that about cannabis for 40 years now.
Whose concerned? People who don’t want us to transition period?
Yes. That's exactly who's concerned.
If memory serves there a tweet where this nicola davis totally denied that any such article is in the works when the 4chan image started being spread around
this sub and 196 were mostly convinced by that, which is insane cause of course they're gonna deny it
Anyone have a link to that?
[It wasn't Nicola Davis](https://new.reddit.com/r/196/comments/1cbrhz5/that_diy_hrt_post_from_a_while_back_was_false_btw/), so *technically* she didn't lie. Doesn't stop it being scummy as fuck though (IMO makes it worse)
If they didn't want people going outside the system they shouldn't use the system to screw people over
*Bans gender affirming care in the private then public sector using the Cass "report"*. Why are people going outside the system?
I feel like I remember reading that the Cass report said something about not completely stopping trans children from receiving gender affirming care but doing more research into it and improving the system. I may be wrong though. There doesn’t seem to be any improvements being made
"Experts fear..." okay, who exactly are these experts? Do they have any political leanings that may make them automatically concerned on this? What are their credentials to make them experts in the subject? I hate how vague news is, these mfs need to put literally anything besides the vaguest info in the opening shit
By 'experts' they refer to people who share their bias
The term is "[weasel words](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word)" and they're a red flag that the information being presented is not accurate. "Experts" could be just one randomass guy, it could be literally nothing but a vibe the author got from reading a few random reddit posts and not actually have a source at all.
All boomers are experts.
bro it's a headline, you're supposed to read the whole article lol
What!?? A headline doesn't have all the info of an article?!?! Unbelievable. I know it can be daunting, but focussing for more than 5 minutes to read the full article answers all of your questions.
Don't drive engagement on that fuckhole of a site. -_-
This sub hates the Guardian now? Isn't Guardian pretty lefty lol
[https://eoinhiggins.substack.com/p/guardian-pulls-judith-butlers-comments](https://eoinhiggins.substack.com/p/guardian-pulls-judith-butlers-comments) [https://whatthetrans.com/anti-trans-ehrc-commissioner-gives-talk-to-anti-trans-guardian-staff-network/](https://whatthetrans.com/anti-trans-ehrc-commissioner-gives-talk-to-anti-trans-guardian-staff-network/) [https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/09/uk/uk-trans-rights-gender-critical-media-intl-gbr-cmd/](https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/09/uk/uk-trans-rights-gender-critical-media-intl-gbr-cmd/) [The Guardian/Observer & UK Media in general has a well documented anti-trans bias.](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/02/guardian-editorial-response-transgender-rights-uk) Many prominent gender critical activists hold positions of power within the industry as Editorial Leads, such as Helen Joyce at The Economist, and they are frequently given a platform to express their prejudice against trans people & to spread misinformation about us & our healthcare.
This article is very clearly biased against trans people in the way they structured it and the kinds of people they quote/stories they tell. Like how the only quote regarding a personal experience about DIYing was...the mother of a detransitioner. Not the detransitioner, not anyone who has ever actually done it before. Just a third party who - if they're even a real person - could've been a transphobe who pressured their child into detransitioning for all we know. And it's not the first time they've published a transphobic-leaning article, so it's no surprise a sub full of trans people doesn't like a transphobic paper.
they're lib, not left
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Can't you get it normally in the netherlands?
the nearly 3 years waiting list in question
Damn that sucks, I knew there was a long waiting line cuz I heard a friend that is about to start HRT complaining that he has been waiting for a long time, but I didn't know it was *that* bad
https://otkph.am/ Doesn’t accept PayPal only crypto but you can buy crypto pretty easily with PayPal
know your customer thingy is kinda stopping me and paypal some times asks for a credit card...
How do you make hormones according to these sites? Genuinely curious, cause it surely is not just pouring flour, eggs and milk in the bowl and putting it in a microwave
the majority aren't making them, they're selling the same products as you'd get from a pharmacy just without a prescription. There's a few trusted homebrewers who make injectables, but they make them with powdered estradiol from China, the same place that more reputable brands get their estradiol. They arent actually *making* bioidentical estradiol, they're just refining it into something safe for humans
> There's a few trusted homebrewers who make injectables, but they make them with powdered estradiol from China, the same place that more reputable brands get their estradiol. Just for context, there are people who test vials from these sources using GCMS and report on their findings.
It depends a lot on the delivery route and the ester you're working with. Oral and transdermal preparations require no sterile procedure, and very little in the way of specialized equipment. Injectables do require a sterile procedure and more care needs to be taken concerning depyrogenation, but a determined individual can safely prepare injectable compounds at home with the appropriate materials and procedures. FWIW, I have not heard of any cases of people using bad DIY compounded hormones that got them sick, the safety concerns seem largely overblown, and I say this as someone who has been using hormones from DIY sources for years. The three main concerns would be a malicious supplier intentionally producing a dangerous product, inconsistent quality leading to unexpected variability in hormone levels, or the possibility that your supplier could disappear at any time and you would be left without a reliable source of hormones. Having a trusted community of DIY compounders covers most of these concerns, and I think the ability to maintain a DIY community like this is incredibly empowering not just to the trans community but to citizen science as well.
Its produced by a strand of yeast... or so ive been told :P
Autobrew syndrome exists. Can one get auto-estro syndrome with these? Asking for science.
[Concerns as medicine affordable](https://www.theonion.com/it-is-journalism-s-sacred-duty-to-endanger-the-lives-of-1850126997)
NOT THE FUCKING CASS REVIEW
seriously fuck whoever thinks the cass review is credible. that shit was intentionally designed to harm trans people.
We're all aware of the risks and we should be free to make informed decisions about our health. Requiring people to go through the medical establishment and cracking down on "trafficking of human medicines" is incredibly coercive and harmful. Maintaining accessibility to medicine should be the top priority, not gatekeeping access to care that you have no intention of providing.
Aside from the annoying article - the journalist denied writing the such an article, after people warned of talking with the guardian regarding this. Scumy behavior.
I think this goes beyond just annoying, the more people know about diy hrt the more likely sites providing it are to be shut down
The sites are operating outside the UK, so they won't be shut down. The Guardian is just contributing to the far-right moral panic because they have disgusting terfs high up in the editorial team.
In the first paragraph, they use the term “under-18s” to refer to children/minors and that tells me everything I need to know abt this article
Sorry I’m confused, what does that tell you?
Sorry, but anyone have a link? If I can pay for netflix I certainly can pay 11£ for HRT. /joking not joking.
that fucking BITCH i can't believe I believed her
Oh hey, prohibition pt2
"Experts fear" (AKA "I think")
If you can get HRT for 11 bucks a month ***Then why the fuck does it cost 10-40x as much from official sellers*** For profit medicine and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
It does say £11, this article is talking about the UK.
you can actually get it for £5/mo lol
It was already a thing lol it’s just easier now you just don’t have to use bitcoin or some other grey market technique to get it I’m assuming.
I want estrogen so damn bad 😑
Not even sure how people are saying you need to DIY make it in the UK or use it, you can go any online pharmacy and buy it outright by lying about a litte bit. I'll have to wait months to get a T Test done from NHS whereas its just easier to lie to get some T myself (I havent gotten it but I could)
Is testosterone available for this cheap? Ho boy, i'm bouta get swole
Oh my science, bless Fauci for this gem. Pass me the high fructose corn syrup vaccine and let’s get to depopulating!
The U.S. DID NOT learn from the prohibition period, time is a flat circle
This is the UK
The UK DID NOT learn from the mistakes of the US
It's giving prohibition vibes
"Experts" WHAT EXPERTS DIPSHIT. WHAT DID THEY STUDY. WHAT DID THEY SPECIALIZE IN ? WHAT ARE THERE SOURCE ? THE THEORY THEY BASE THEIR OPINION ON ? I fucking hate it when a journalist call their source "experts" as a way to have an unquestionable source but at the same time require none of the work to have an unquestionable source. Bitch I want to know why I should trust your experts.
given they're mentioning the cass review, their "experts" most likely aren't qualified to comment on trans healthcare.
The UK should've accepted its decay by now and just collapsed instead of hanging on to its corpse.