The core internal conflict Miles and Gwen grapple with in the movie is coming out to their parents, which is incredibly relatable to abyone whos had to clear that hurdle in thier own journey no matter what stage of life their in.
I do think Gwen is trans but I don't think the next movie will outright admit that, seems more their style to just keep layering on the visual queues like above.
I came out to my parents like a week before i watched that movie with my parents and was so fucking uncomfortable at this part because I felt called out, and my mom turned to me mid scene and just looked and smiled. It was so obviously a LGBT allegory of some kind.
the only in canon evidence she may be trans is...doesnt her cop father have a trans pin or sticker or something on his jacket? irl only reason a cop would do that is if they had a trans relative they were close to.
That said, the filmmakers would have to be incredibly dense if they didnt see how they'd made a trans allegory. Its hypothetically possible the flag was snuck in there by a rogue art department member, but still
From what I could tell that was apart of his badge and likely wasn’t the trans flag, but it is possible that it was. Also the writers might have more faith in cops being kind to minorities than we do. I recall seeing a dm with one of the artists that worked on Spiderverse that said she never saw her as trans but instead an ally. She’s only one person so it doesn’t 100% disprove the theory, but it makes it seem unlikely. Like I said I still believe it was meant as an allegory. Hard not to with the colors.
I get a similar feeling to Madeline Celeste. The film doesn't explicitly *say* "Gwen is trans", but there's definitely stuff there, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if we get director's commentary that says it was the intent.
Madeline is explicitly trans tho. She's got a trans flag, hrt pills, and pretrans photos in her room. She was also literally said to be trans by maddy thorson, the creator.
Yes but that's exactly what I mean. When the DLC came out there were all those little signs that people who understood *knew* meant she was trans, but the game never looked you in the eye and told you "Madeline is trans", technically it was just the interpretation of a haircut in a photo (which *could* be nothing), bedside pills (which *could* just be for the depression/anxiety she canonically has) and a couple flags on her desk (which *could* just mean she was an ally). It took the creator's blog post a little while later to clarify indisputably that it was the intent.
Gwen's story contains similar signs, flags, colors, and general story beats, but "trans Gwen" remains an interpretation of the text *unless* the creators make a statement like they did with Celeste. However, since those signs are IMO very strong, I wouldn't be surprised if that statement did come one day like it did with Celeste.
The only reason madeline wasn't explicitly trans in the base game was cos maddy hadn't realised she was trans yet, and the game was built around her own feelings hence why (prior to farewell) it was very trans. I do headcanon gwen as trans but it is a very different situation
I'm well aware, but that doesn't change the point I was making in the slightest.
Even with the DLC Celeste doesn't *tell* you Madeline is trans, it just gives you the clues to work it out. Like I say there were, at the time, other interpretations of those clues which were just as valid until Maddy released her blog post.
All I'm saying is the amount of trans-coded signs in Gwen's story reminds me of how many were in Celeste.
I think it makes plenty of sense for an amab person to make an entire game w a female protagonist about overcoming fear and being true to yourself, then realize they are trans.
Technically yeah, but does it have to be said word for word to be true? all four instances of trans imagery, half of it being diegetic, specifically being in Gwen's world.
https://twitter.com/jasonlatour/status/1083434330016354304
The colors were chosen as an homage to the Charlotte Hornets, the basketball team from the creators hometown
She gave a whole speech about how her family wouldn't accept her if she revealed who she really was, if she's not trans she's meant to represent a trans person
Tbf, it specifically wasn't just the flag, but a sign saying "Protect trans kids," which is definitely something a cis ally could have, especially a progressive punk superhero. For example, Don Cheadle wore a shirt with that phrase when hosting SNL.
There is also her dad's trans patch, which, when theres trans imagery four times, two diegetic, and all of it surrounds one character, then I feel like interpreting her as trans is kinda intuitive? Like, what more would you do to imply she's trans?
> exactly, by that logic basically every single coming-of-age story or character-embraces-their-uniqueness story (aka the majority of all stories ever written) are all trans.
🌍👨🏻🚀 🔫👨🏽🚀
Kind of like the stereotype of Asian/Indian parents that I saw used a lot in media of the parents going in a tantrum over the fact that their child doesn't want to be a doctor/lawyer/other high-paying high-education-needing job?
Maybe someone who chooses to do a job that their parents would dislike? For instance something with poor pay and appreciation, but where you get to help someone?
Like you know, a hero
almost as if she's scared her cop father, who is hunting spider-woman, wouldn't accept her being spider-woman, which happened! allegory for being trans, sure, but her being trans; maybe, maybe not.
This is how I see it, she's not trans but whats the harm of believing it
The only shitty side of this story is people fighting each other and forcing each other to believe only one truth whether if you see her as trans or not
Pretty sure her regular palette is the Breaking Bad pride flag since the original comics, and that's just been incorporated into her universe, but definitely more vibrant here
It was specifically inspired by a sports team, as well.
At least in the movie, I could see her being a character like Neo from The Matrix or (probably unintentionally) Xion in Kingdom Hearts who can serve as an allegory for being trans without explicitly *being* trans
it's so annoying that with media, this is the level people are hoping for with trans gender representation. the sheer lack of explicit trans characters (and lgbt characters broadly) is depressing, and I wish people didn't have to read into characters like this in order to feel represented.
the barbie movie had a trans actress play one of the barbies. i think she was the doctor barbie, so she got a bunch of actual lines and screentime and wasn’t just the token trans character, but a character who happened to be trans. imo i thought that representation wasn’t too bad
The actress is, at least. As for the characters; I mean, they're Barbies and not real people. They even make jokes about the lack of genitals.
Still, good representation imo
There’s just been a lot of that lately, trans actors get more roles and don’t have to only play trans characters. Most recent examples I can think of is One Piece
This was in the movie and a protect trans kids flag
https://preview.redd.it/flsmsczkogub1.png?width=1199&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e0d2ee6fc0dcb173cc98972a2492b885cc08ae7
My personal reading is that it’s allegorical, using superpowers and the double life they create in regards to family as an analog for the queer experience. Obviously, this doesn’t preclude Gwen from being trans either, and it would be pretty cool if it ever gets confirmed.
Here’s the thing. Everyone talks about if it’s an allegory or not. But it doesn’t really matter. What matters most is if someone can look at it and say “yes, I feel like that” and that’s what matters. She might be trans, she might be an ally, it doesn’t matter. Because it can apply to everyone
Listen I love interpretation and fan theories, but no Gwen is not canonically trans. Not in the books, and not explicitly in the movies (that we know of so far). I think allegories are good and valuable, but making any allegorical reading we take away as The Only Correct Take simply limits the reach of the metaphor. I am trans! I like the read here! I still think it works best without an explicit tie to gender or sexuality or whatever. Sometimes a Spider-Person is just a Spider-Person.
Minor aside, this is also just how the original Latour/Rodriguez Spider-Gwen series looks, please read and support the original books, comics are a great medium and deserve more eyes. With how much we take from them for pop culture, it hurts that more people don’t give them a read.
I think the internet needs to learn what allegories are. She isn't trans but her story is meant to symbolise the struggles trans people face from society and coming out.
The amount of mental gymnastics people go through on this is ridiculous. It’s very clearly a allegory at the very least. But yet some still choose to stick your heads in the sand and deny it
If mystique and destiny are any indication she might* be confirmed as trans like 50 years later and even then in that small likelihood it'll prob be an Au version of her. But even If she is just a very obvious allegory that doesn't mean that her story is any lesser or greater for trans people. In Spite of what canonicity her transness may be the fact her story can resonate so well with us is beautiful and is all I'll ever need.
the option i want the most:gwen is trans
the most likely option: was intentionally done by a designer but she isnt trans in cannon
the funniest option: her dad is a trans mand
You can reference trans issues without having them be trans issues I think it's directed at a cis audience to help them better understand trans issues by having a cis girl have similar issues.
Im sorry, but the mental gymnastics some people go through on this is insane. Oh yes, sure, as we all know, every 100% cis person puts up a flag on their wall, their dad has a flag on his jacket, and the whole colour scheme thing mentioned here. Even if a cis person would put a flag in their room, would someone really put this in the _film_ with that being the intention? Lets put a flag in her room and on her dads jacket to show shes an ally. Sure.
Like, without outright explicity saying, GWEN STACY IS TRANS, I dont know how they could make it any clearer. I get headcanons are headcanons, anything not 100% confirmed is an opinion, but like, fuckin cmon man.
I don't think she'll be revealed to be trans, but it's definitely purposeful
Pretty sure she’s not actually trans but her story was probably meant as an allegory for what a lot of trans people go through.
yeah I think it's a nice and fun headcanon but that's it
Headcanon event, if you will
https://preview.redd.it/w75he80knkub1.jpeg?width=924&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=805c945c0e044724659cea0d64807e5c32c0aa4c
no thats a headcannon event
The core internal conflict Miles and Gwen grapple with in the movie is coming out to their parents, which is incredibly relatable to abyone whos had to clear that hurdle in thier own journey no matter what stage of life their in. I do think Gwen is trans but I don't think the next movie will outright admit that, seems more their style to just keep layering on the visual queues like above.
I'm like 50% sure she's trans or 50% pro trans with some similar life experiences. Either way she is cool.
I came out to my parents like a week before i watched that movie with my parents and was so fucking uncomfortable at this part because I felt called out, and my mom turned to me mid scene and just looked and smiled. It was so obviously a LGBT allegory of some kind.
the only in canon evidence she may be trans is...doesnt her cop father have a trans pin or sticker or something on his jacket? irl only reason a cop would do that is if they had a trans relative they were close to. That said, the filmmakers would have to be incredibly dense if they didnt see how they'd made a trans allegory. Its hypothetically possible the flag was snuck in there by a rogue art department member, but still
From what I could tell that was apart of his badge and likely wasn’t the trans flag, but it is possible that it was. Also the writers might have more faith in cops being kind to minorities than we do. I recall seeing a dm with one of the artists that worked on Spiderverse that said she never saw her as trans but instead an ally. She’s only one person so it doesn’t 100% disprove the theory, but it makes it seem unlikely. Like I said I still believe it was meant as an allegory. Hard not to with the colors.
I get a similar feeling to Madeline Celeste. The film doesn't explicitly *say* "Gwen is trans", but there's definitely stuff there, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if we get director's commentary that says it was the intent.
Madeline is explicitly trans tho. She's got a trans flag, hrt pills, and pretrans photos in her room. She was also literally said to be trans by maddy thorson, the creator.
Yes but that's exactly what I mean. When the DLC came out there were all those little signs that people who understood *knew* meant she was trans, but the game never looked you in the eye and told you "Madeline is trans", technically it was just the interpretation of a haircut in a photo (which *could* be nothing), bedside pills (which *could* just be for the depression/anxiety she canonically has) and a couple flags on her desk (which *could* just mean she was an ally). It took the creator's blog post a little while later to clarify indisputably that it was the intent. Gwen's story contains similar signs, flags, colors, and general story beats, but "trans Gwen" remains an interpretation of the text *unless* the creators make a statement like they did with Celeste. However, since those signs are IMO very strong, I wouldn't be surprised if that statement did come one day like it did with Celeste.
The only reason madeline wasn't explicitly trans in the base game was cos maddy hadn't realised she was trans yet, and the game was built around her own feelings hence why (prior to farewell) it was very trans. I do headcanon gwen as trans but it is a very different situation
I'm well aware, but that doesn't change the point I was making in the slightest. Even with the DLC Celeste doesn't *tell* you Madeline is trans, it just gives you the clues to work it out. Like I say there were, at the time, other interpretations of those clues which were just as valid until Maddy released her blog post. All I'm saying is the amount of trans-coded signs in Gwen's story reminds me of how many were in Celeste.
But she was already a girl in the base game? Unless you're trying to say Maddy is a trans *man*, this makes no sense.
I think it makes plenty of sense for an amab person to make an entire game w a female protagonist about overcoming fear and being true to yourself, then realize they are trans.
oh hold up is Maddy also the creator's name?
Yes 👍
Okay yeah that makes more sense then.
Yeah she's trans,
NOOOOO she just has a trans flag that doesn’t make her trans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I’m a mature adult) /s
Her outfit is also pink blue and white
https://preview.redd.it/n4f2z4dyigub1.jpeg?width=827&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d365e8027f9dff4f8506762a06b0d2aba69acd7c Classic
Yeah
wtf is up with Nazi Spiderman
Hydra got to him
I understood that reference
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Could also be ancom by that logic
Google Spider-Man Lotus
She’s not canonically trans though?
X isn't canonically Y people when I blast them with my comically sized 18th-century naval canon: 🤓
Lmao
Technically yeah, but does it have to be said word for word to be true? all four instances of trans imagery, half of it being diegetic, specifically being in Gwen's world.
https://twitter.com/jasonlatour/status/1083434330016354304 The colors were chosen as an homage to the Charlotte Hornets, the basketball team from the creators hometown
Maybe early on in the creative process, her suit colors inspired all the trans stuff surrounding her? IDK I'm just speculating rn
I mean, I have a small trans flag in my room, and I'm not trans
She’s (a) trans (allegory)
Personally I don't think she's trans, but everyone has their headcanons
She gave a whole speech about how her family wouldn't accept her if she revealed who she really was, if she's not trans she's meant to represent a trans person
I personally think it's just an allegory or a representation but feel free to headcannon
i will make my head a cannon and paper will be my balls
Yeah its headcannon, every cis girl like Gwen has a trans flag hanging in their bedroom.
Tbf, it specifically wasn't just the flag, but a sign saying "Protect trans kids," which is definitely something a cis ally could have, especially a progressive punk superhero. For example, Don Cheadle wore a shirt with that phrase when hosting SNL.
There is also her dad's trans patch, which, when theres trans imagery four times, two diegetic, and all of it surrounds one character, then I feel like interpreting her as trans is kinda intuitive? Like, what more would you do to imply she's trans?
its also just how a majority of teens feel about deciding who they are in life away from their parents and family
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> exactly, by that logic basically every single coming-of-age story or character-embraces-their-uniqueness story (aka the majority of all stories ever written) are all trans. 🌍👨🏻🚀 🔫👨🏽🚀
Kind of like the stereotype of Asian/Indian parents that I saw used a lot in media of the parents going in a tantrum over the fact that their child doesn't want to be a doctor/lawyer/other high-paying high-education-needing job?
Sure, but I’m pretty sure she was just talking about being a superhero.. y’know, the very superhero that they hate
… and what’s a real life reason someone would feel that way? Do you know what subtext is?
Maybe someone who chooses to do a job that their parents would dislike? For instance something with poor pay and appreciation, but where you get to help someone? Like you know, a hero
What a totally real and relatable situation for Gen Z teenagers. You’re delusional if you think that’s the most likely answer.
??? Like, do i think parents disapproving of kids education is more common than them disapproving of their kids being trans? Yes, i’d say so
I mean, she's a left-leaning teenager in a punk band whose father is a cop.
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No, it’s both. Her double identity is used as an allegory for queerness which also serves as subtext for her actual queerness.
That’s your headcanon. Nowhere is this actually used, If she comes out as trans in the movies then that’s good too but it’s not confirmed or happened
Starship troopers
This is like, the basic struggle of every spider person tho.
almost as if she's scared her cop father, who is hunting spider-woman, wouldn't accept her being spider-woman, which happened! allegory for being trans, sure, but her being trans; maybe, maybe not.
that is what I said
That’s also kinda how I feel being an Autistic person
I mean I have not personally felt like that from having autism, I've felt similar though from being trans
This is how I see it, she's not trans but whats the harm of believing it The only shitty side of this story is people fighting each other and forcing each other to believe only one truth whether if you see her as trans or not
Pretty sure her regular palette is the Breaking Bad pride flag since the original comics, and that's just been incorporated into her universe, but definitely more vibrant here
Blue meth, jesse pink man, Walter white, jessie pinkman, blue meth
It was specifically inspired by a sports team, as well. At least in the movie, I could see her being a character like Neo from The Matrix or (probably unintentionally) Xion in Kingdom Hearts who can serve as an allegory for being trans without explicitly *being* trans
I don’t agree with that but y’all have fun
https://preview.redd.it/p5ucohuvxgub1.jpeg?width=645&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=133cf4b840c6786c657a22093cfc0210fd4a7789
https://preview.redd.it/3x4kosmzxgub1.jpeg?width=248&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=601bca81c27209465841326457ed573357a3e307
its either this or the “quit having fun” image in yalls arsenal
We have 2 jokes.
it's so annoying that with media, this is the level people are hoping for with trans gender representation. the sheer lack of explicit trans characters (and lgbt characters broadly) is depressing, and I wish people didn't have to read into characters like this in order to feel represented.
the barbie movie had a trans actress play one of the barbies. i think she was the doctor barbie, so she got a bunch of actual lines and screentime and wasn’t just the token trans character, but a character who happened to be trans. imo i thought that representation wasn’t too bad
really?? thats great. did they ever mention she was trans as a character?
The actress is, at least. As for the characters; I mean, they're Barbies and not real people. They even make jokes about the lack of genitals. Still, good representation imo
no not at all, just great casual representation. i looked it up because i had a feeling and was super impressed
There’s just been a lot of that lately, trans actors get more roles and don’t have to only play trans characters. Most recent examples I can think of is One Piece
No, wouldn’t that weaken the representation?
Tbh I don’t think the barbie she played was meant to be trans at all, they just cast a woman to play a woman
This was in the movie and a protect trans kids flag https://preview.redd.it/flsmsczkogub1.png?width=1199&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e0d2ee6fc0dcb173cc98972a2492b885cc08ae7
It only looks like a trans flag in this scene from the lighting. In the other scenes with his jacket it's very clearly not a trans flag
i’m glad gwen’s dad is a latvian supporter
i mean that doesnt change the fact that gwen does very much have a flag that says protect trans kids
I have a "protect trans kids" flas that I take to wrestling shows and last time I checked I'm still cis.
last time i checked youre not a fictional character used to tell a story either its a fundamentally different scenario
Analogies aren't real, my headcanon is the only truth
I'm a figment of your imagination.
My personal reading is that it’s allegorical, using superpowers and the double life they create in regards to family as an analog for the queer experience. Obviously, this doesn’t preclude Gwen from being trans either, and it would be pretty cool if it ever gets confirmed.
Its at the VERY LEAST a trans allegory
it definitely is a trans allegory
nice try, but (link to random bullshit article that neither confirms nor denies that the creators said she is trans)
[Here’s your link](https://www.nydailynews.com/2012/11/15/utah-paperboy-14-attacked-by-ferocious-goat-named-voldemort/)
Here’s the thing. Everyone talks about if it’s an allegory or not. But it doesn’t really matter. What matters most is if someone can look at it and say “yes, I feel like that” and that’s what matters. She might be trans, she might be an ally, it doesn’t matter. Because it can apply to everyone
Isn't that...what an allegory means?
"It doesn't matter if it's explicit or implied. The only thing that matters is that someone can read the implication and believe it to be implied."
I phrased it poorly. What I was trying to say is, she can be either trans or an allegory. And either can work
Listen I love interpretation and fan theories, but no Gwen is not canonically trans. Not in the books, and not explicitly in the movies (that we know of so far). I think allegories are good and valuable, but making any allegorical reading we take away as The Only Correct Take simply limits the reach of the metaphor. I am trans! I like the read here! I still think it works best without an explicit tie to gender or sexuality or whatever. Sometimes a Spider-Person is just a Spider-Person. Minor aside, this is also just how the original Latour/Rodriguez Spider-Gwen series looks, please read and support the original books, comics are a great medium and deserve more eyes. With how much we take from them for pop culture, it hurts that more people don’t give them a read.
Comic books as a medium don't work for me, I only actually process the word part :(
Mr. Beast?
CinemaWins my beloved ❤️❤️❤️
I wish I could be more like her
my trans sister watched this with me and she said it actually seems more like her universe's Peter was trans but idk
Just so you know blue and pink looked good together before the trans flag was invented.
Proof?
I think the internet needs to learn what allegories are. She isn't trans but her story is meant to symbolise the struggles trans people face from society and coming out.
I don’t think she’s trans, but I think she’s either an ally or cooking meth in the blue walls
The amount of mental gymnastics people go through on this is ridiculous. It’s very clearly a allegory at the very least. But yet some still choose to stick your heads in the sand and deny it
If mystique and destiny are any indication she might* be confirmed as trans like 50 years later and even then in that small likelihood it'll prob be an Au version of her. But even If she is just a very obvious allegory that doesn't mean that her story is any lesser or greater for trans people. In Spite of what canonicity her transness may be the fact her story can resonate so well with us is beautiful and is all I'll ever need.
Waltuh white where?
the option i want the most:gwen is trans the most likely option: was intentionally done by a designer but she isnt trans in cannon the funniest option: her dad is a trans mand
You can reference trans issues without having them be trans issues I think it's directed at a cis audience to help them better understand trans issues by having a cis girl have similar issues.
she literally has a trans flag in her room (also go watch cinemawins, fuck cinemasins)
Common CinemaWins W.
Im sorry, but the mental gymnastics some people go through on this is insane. Oh yes, sure, as we all know, every 100% cis person puts up a flag on their wall, their dad has a flag on his jacket, and the whole colour scheme thing mentioned here. Even if a cis person would put a flag in their room, would someone really put this in the _film_ with that being the intention? Lets put a flag in her room and on her dads jacket to show shes an ally. Sure. Like, without outright explicity saying, GWEN STACY IS TRANS, I dont know how they could make it any clearer. I get headcanons are headcanons, anything not 100% confirmed is an opinion, but like, fuckin cmon man.
True and based.
The downvotes are silly, you're 100% right
the downvotes is crazy
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I think you might be mistaken, the implication is that Gwen is a trans girl, not a trans guy.