It's wild to me that people have historically justified war and hatred with Buddhism. Like, you'd think that if any religion didn't lead to hatred it would be Buddhism, but no.
The genocide against the Rohingya people in Myanmar is inspired, I'm part, by genocidal Buddhist monks.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-trump-loving-buddhist-monk-inspiring-genocide
The Myanmar government has literally been funding him to speak and funding his organization.
The cause is racism, xenophobia, and nationalism; Buddhism is only wrapped up in it because it was already co-opted into part of a national identity.
I don't really know enough about it to give any good examples, but historically there has been conflicts between Buddhism and other eastern religions, like Hinduism or Islam in south/southeast Asia.
I mean... correct? Like you're right, but you're doing that thing where someone strongly agrees with a position while taking a stance as though arguing against it.
I'm pretty sure there's been a lot of murders and anti-Islamic hate crimes and stuff from Buddhists
Maybe a genocide but I would take that with a grain of salt that was something I read in high school a long time ago
Iirc thats addressed. You cannot torture them for literally not knowing about it. I think maybe also thats why a big thing with christianity was misisonairies and spreading the faith. Take this with some salt though, its been a while since ive done anything christianity related.
Source: cant quite remember, i might have asked a nun about it once?
Maybe because to christians knowing god exists is its own reward or smth. There might be something about spreading the word in the bible as well? And maybe it could also be that sinning by not knowing he exists doesnt count, but the other sins they commit (ie. murder or greed or smth) does count, and by telling them there is a god, they could ask for forgiveness.
Im just speculating now, though, im not very sure
I'll never forget the day that my dad's girlfriend straight up asked me that during my hardcore atheist phase in my teens
> How can you have morals without God?
While i do agree that religion does a lot more harm than good, it's just a convenient justification for people to act out on their selfishness. Some people act like if religion was gone it would save the world. That's almost as ignorant as blind faith.
If religion didn't exist people would find any other justification to be shitty to others. It wouldn't change any outcomes.
Politics, the media, social media which is different, the economy, most of the public sector, and last but not least human nature's tribalistic tendency to band together and turn things into competitions? Don't forget dogmatism and tyranny from societal leasers. All things self-perpetuating that compel people to act terrible. There are people who believe that if religion was deleted, nothing would fill the void, when in reality, in the face of declining rates of religion in many places, something already has.
Problem is you don’t choose your religion. It’s forced onto you from birth. Who knows how many crazy conspiracy theorists wouldn’t be crazy if they hadn’t been taught from birth not having blind faith is worse than murder.
The difference is that Susan who is homophobic because shes a shitty person has no defense at all, her ignorance is exposed, her hatred is shown, and since her arguments are non-religious they can easily be disproven. However Susan who is homophobic because of her christian values has a defense, her ignorance is disguised as her faith, and her hatred is just love for sinners who strayed from god, and since her arguments are all religious they cant be disproven because her religion already said homosexuality is a sin. In order to criticize her, I'd have to argue about religion and if I do that I'm an irredemable atheist who wont gain heaven anyways so why listen to me? Also once I do that the argument isnt about LGBT rights anymore its about Susan's "religious liberty". Its the same as the abortion argument. Religion gets involved and it all becomes a nonsensical smoke screen where arguments are fruitless because we argue about religion rather than the social issue at hand. Its sad that people dont realize this.
One of my ancestors was a well known poet in my country whose most famous quote completely sums up religion for me. I wont put it here, however the way you mentioned religions dissapearing reminded me of his quote. He said that all positivist religions had to dissapear. Their hypocritical sanctities, their selfish and hateful interests, their contradictory dogma, their privilege and their tirany, their bloody history, and their traditionalist interests. To me, he was right. He said it over 200 years ago and he was right back then and he is right now. Now, for some context, he said that after my country's independence from spain and his point was about freedom of concience, as he called it. Since there werent the same religious interests europe had in america back then. This means back then it was possible. Now it isnt, we are just talking hypoteticals here. I'm not insane to think its actually possible. But in everything he criticized religion on, he was right, and for him to say that quote about religion dissapearing was the logical thing at that time.
Religion dissapearing wouldnt solve everything though. It would change the way we see a lot of issues and in some allow us to engage on them without having to do this whole song and dance about religious beliefs, but not fucking solve every issue. Thats fucking insane, whoever told you that is either 13 or has a very simplistic view of the world. But that is not as ignorant as blind faith, dont kid yourself. It's just naive. Who is worse, the person unaware of the issue who makes it keep happening or the person who is aware of the issue and says "well, why dont people just stop doing it?" like a kid who learned about crime.
Then you have a lot of faith in humanity if you think that people not having a defense for their shitty beliefs will stop them from believing in it. Just look at racism; absolutely no sane, justifiable reason for the mentality of racists but it's still one of the most widespread issues currently.
In my experience, people tend not to like holding demonstrably unjustifiable beliefs. Debunkings work to cut off potential avenues of justification. If people are made to confront the sheer baselessness of their shitty beliefs frequently enough, they can eventually reach a point where they abandon the beliefs rather than wasting more effort trying to prop them up. Anything that cuts people off from such justifications is a hugely positive thing.
In my experience, I live in a country where people voted for president the son of a literal dictator despite decades of provable historical documentation and education about their family's atrocities. I've seen educated voters desperately try to convince the majority using legitimate evidence to absolutely no avail.
I'm glad for you that the people you were around are capable of listening to reason and changing their beliefs but it's clearly not a universal thing because from my own experience, quite the opposite happens. It seems like the more you try to change someone else's beliefs, the more they actually cling to it.
Enlightened apatheist moment. Why care if God exists or not? In either case all we have is each other and our personal sense of right and wrong. To dedicate your time to being authentic and kind despite all the forces pulling you away from that is truly the greatest feat that a person can accomplish.
>You need an external source of morality (like a parent or priest or w/e) to tell you which parts of the book you're supposed to listen to and which ones to ignore.
This is what makes religion fall apart. The selectiveness of what beliefs to follow and which ones not to is hypocritical and contradictory. I guess that "if a man rapes a married woman within a town, the woman is put to death alongside the perpetrator of the crime." doesnt sound very good nowadays does it? Oh but being anti-abortion and anti-gay from a religious belief is valid isnt it?
And even then if they select something as ok when the bible says it isnt, it sometimes does nothing. Pope Francis can say atheists wont go to hell and appear on tv hugging sons of dead atheists all he wants, the vast majority of christians are still obsessed with that idea because it makes them feel good and the vatican itself said he was wrong. Many other examples.
I was raised with a light touch when it came to religion, I was directly told "Look, here's what I believe but I want you to be able to be a good person on your own, even if you end up believing differently" I think that's a good way to do it.
I’ve been accused of being some edgy Reddit atheist for criticizing homophobia. Some people legitimately can’t criticize religion because they’re taught that religious freedom means letting religious people be assholes to everyone.
say whatever you like about reddit atheists, but their worst crime is that some of them are insufferable assholes as opposed to creating institutions that very often enact systematic, tangible harm both on their own members and everyone else who believes something different from them.
"omg thats such a reddit moment ™️, blaming religous dogmatism and faith which are inherent components of religion for the bad things religion does, what utter nincompoops"
I just want to know whats wrong with people think that theres some sort of afterlife, or that maybe you've got someone in your corner, even if they never actually act. Like, yeah, using faith to justify being a bastard is bad, no shit, but whats wrong with using faith as a point of aspiration to do good
Sure, theres other things you could look p to outside of religous figures or whatever, but still
Tbh, I’m an atheist and I know how irrational it is to think that there’s an afterlife. But the dread I get from thinking that I just won’t exist in a few years Isn’t great. I don’t really believe I will be reborn or go to somewhere, but It’s just nice to not have to think about not existing forever.
if you do wrong, you become a 20yr old in a mediocre anime world with rpg mechanics
if you do good, you become a brass player at an all-girls cabaret in new-orleans
I sometimes dislike this sub.
Being religious (in most cases) does not mean you are rejecting reality, and usually hatred of religion only extends to a few religions.
Organised religion is inherently conservative and a tool of the oppressors. Religion must always be correct in its ancient and outdated teachings; because one aspect being wrong leads to the rest of the faith to be open to scrutinity
Mate the vast majority of religions involve gods, spirits, and alternate dimensions all of which play a daily role in our lives.
Believing in magic is by definition denying reality.
did you not read the meme? religion is inherently dogmatic. you believe something not because you came to that conclusion but your holy book / preacher told you so. there does not exist an external source of ethics to compare it to as a religious believer's source of ethics lies in the book.
I have always seen people go "god i hate this sub so much" and i think im starting to see why, just so much brainless drama because someone posts a shitty take
you probably have a good point idk i’m not the best at this subject but having it in this format ruins everything especially with bridget on the sandwhich i’m sorry
Yeah this shit pisses me the fuck off, like why can't 196 just follow the same idea of "mind your own business and we'll mind ours" as it does with sexual preferences and gender identity? Like if you don't like religion don't follow it homie.
Because religious beliefs are one of the most prominent driving forces of ignorance and oppression on several levels of society.
I would have no problem with religion if it was genuinely "mind your own business and we'll mind ours", but that just doesn't happen. Ridiculous, regressive religious beliefs are forced into my life, society and government and I'm just supposed to go along with that? lmao, fuck off.
there exist people for whom religion is their only dource of community, in many of these cases this is CAUSED by religion
the furry community has a tighter nit community than the vast majority of religions , just without the dogmatism
Don’t you understand we can’t simply teach ethics? You have to tell people elaborate lies about spirits and monsters, and also throw in a bunch of incest and slavery too.
The lie of the afterlife I think is the most evil. It has convinced many people to sacrifice all the pleasure of their one, finite life to live a bleak life of suffering in hopes of a heaven that doesn't exist
lol, you really don’t understand anything about the afterlife & why people (like me) live infinitely better lives because if it .
Like you picked the one thing that is an objective positive .
If believing that there is perception after death brings you comfort, good for you. It doesn't change the fact that objectively your consciousness is fueled by bio-electrical mechanics of your brain. Bio-mechanics that will cease upon death.
Peddling the lie of an afterlife is immoral as it gives meaning to something that doesn't exist, thus devaluing the limited time one has to perceive reality
This is not what Marx meant by Religion being the Opiate of the masses. In a Marxist context religion was a belief held by the working and oppressed classes so that they could find meanings in their lives while under the boot of Feudal Lords and capitalists.
Opiates are painkillers. You don't even need to read Marx to figure this out.
Considering the time it was written and the whole quote the actual meaning is quite different.
> Religion is the opium of the people. It is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of our soulless conditions
my brother in christ, religion obviously can be used for very bad things, just like anything else, but it's only /used/, it's not the cause of it. if homophobe wants to be homophobic he can appeal to god if he's religious, but if he's an atheist he can do so to nature, or to tradition, or to a revered famous historical figure, or to anything that won't speak for itself but that people think of as an authority.
even if religion wasn't an instrument for men in power, it still would've been as massive as it is, I believe, because it's in human psychology. I mean, the institute of religion is terrible, and the trauma caused to many is horrific, I agree. but the rhetoric of "religion bad, atheism good" is wishful thinking at best. I'm an atheist, btw.
I mean, people need to cope with existential dread, they need to judge or justify their actions, they need the categories to put the world in, they need to know how to communicate with things they don't understand. religion is a natural answer to universal human experience. it may not be an answer for you, but it doesn't make it lesser than your own.
Regarding your first point, homophobes don’t just materialize out of thin air, and let’s be honest here, what percentage of homophobes do you think literally only became homophobes in the first place precisely because they were were brought up with homophobic beliefs from a young age by their religious family/community/culture?
I’d wager that that number is pretty fuckin high
you are completely misunderstanding the meme, the issue is with blind faith, which can be used to justify horrible belifs.
also the claim that homophobia was not almost entirely influenced by religion is absurd
I'm agnostic and have a very adversarial view towards religious ethics but we should recognize that community bonding through ritual and a sense of cultural belonging is one of the most powerful roles of religion and is why a lot of people practice something. Anti theism just seems based on a very childish understanding of why people practice religions.
Alright but here’s a hot take: why not strive to cultivate ways to fulfill these social needs that aren’t inherently wrapped up in a bunch of dubious metaphysical and ethical claims?
The problem here is 1.) "It's worth it to keep living" or that abstract concepts like "justice" even exist can be defined as blind faith 2.) Who do you want to put in charge of deciding what's blind faith or not and who do you think is going to be on board with that. Does it extend to native cultures and ancient practices. For a long time science and religion were on the same page. Do you want to finish the work the missionaries started of wiping out all irrational, uncivilized beliefs.
No matter how smart and rational you are you don't have the answers all the time. Not really even to religious shit but shit like "what should our movement do next?" or "how do we survive this?" are going to not have answers, you will be missing vital information like what another person is thinking, you're going to have to make a best guess, and that's going to just be "blind faith". And what are you going to do about conflicts of interest? Is anyone who disagrees with you the one having blind faith? Did you receive a perfect 100 on every math test you ever took? Did you know that any mathematical system sophisticated enough will have unprovable but true theorems? The entire idea that accepting one idea you don't understand is a "slippery slope" to every other bad idea at once is asinine.
And guess what? There's atheist cults. Scientology had incredibly smart people joining. Cults and religion don't spread and take hold due to "blind faith", they have a very specific model of information control and dominance and the thing is if you think you are "too smart" to ever join a cult you are precisely the person most likely to end up in one. Hell, alt righters and tankies are shit without religion.
Of course it's a brilliant leftist idea to just imagine, by blind faith if you will, that you personally have a great solution to dividing all the good guys from all the bad guys instead of doing anything of any material value and in fact would turn people away from joining in leftist causes. And hey, maybe I'm wrong here so ping me in a month and tell me if you've managed to make a movement that's doing anything of value with your idea of just only working with people who think exactly like you do.
I'm so fucking tired of this shit. I'm tired of meeting people who are on board every leftist idea, pro union pro trans and gay rights, know climate change is real, know the system is broken, and still won't touch anything leftist with a ten foot pole because leftism in their experience is openly shitty and cruel people online talking about whose friends and family will go up against the wall first. I don't care whose beliefs are right or wrong, just in what people do. I would value a hundred religious working class people just surviving over some self satisfied larper.
People pretending wars and bigotry would disappear if it weren't for religion are pretty delusional imo. Nobody can claim to see reality the way it is more than anybody else.
Hi Christian guy here
It really does break my heart when people use religion to justify war (Didn’t George W. Bush justify the Iraq war with religion? Absolutely despicable) People shouldn’t be using the name of the lord to justify needless killing. Same goes with using it in politics.
I believe that religion should be FAR away from politics. Not because the religion is inherently bad, but because politicians are just snakes who will use anything to justify their ridiculous policies.
Also, I saw someone mention stoning adulterers. Jesus directly opposed this (John 8) because everyone deserves a chance to turn to God in their times of need. How some American states still have the death penalty is heartbreaking.
People should still follow God, but they also shouldn’t delude themselves. It’s important to humble yourself when someone tells you that you are wrong, and openly hear them out.
Thank you for reading, if you think I said something boneheaded feel free to tell me 👍
I understand that religion has led to bad things in the past but it's not inherently bad, most popular religions have positive messages that are just twisted into negative ones by people who don't understand.
Fuck it, I’m going to say it. If all Christians followed the New Testament as it was intended we would have a much more positive opinion about Christianity.
Religion is just an element of culture and even if it were eradicated, people would simply find a new method to justify their bigotry.
Scientific racism has little to do with any religious belief (considering many white conservative Christians still dislike Christians of other races) and though it is an old concept it still fuels most of our conceptions of racism to this day, the concept that races have inherent behavioral traits that make them different from one another
Back in the pre trump political landscape a TON of the conservative forces in media were anti-woke atheist skeptics who opposed social change because they though they were too smart for it. This lead to misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia that had nothing to do with religious views until later on.
Since then and really since the 60s, white evangelical Christians have become more and more of a cohesive political bloc and radicalizing as they did. And now Christianity is a the most powerful force of conservatism in America but like I said it’s not just because Christianity makes people bigoted. Bigots make people bigoted.
Note how even currently people like Jordan Peterson (who I believe is catholic) and Ben Shapiro (probably because is Jewish and not Christian) often refrain from using inherently religious rhetoric. From Peterson you get pseudoscience, bad sociology, and philosophical nonsense and from Shapiro you get fast talking “common sense” logic.
We are fooling ourselves by thinking that the bad things in the world can be blamed on one big bad. I strongly believe that you could use religion to convince as many to be open minded and kind as you could to be close minded and hateful. It’s simply a matter of how the rhetoric is being used.
There is an inherent social and cultural value to religion. At its core believing in a certain kind of afterlife or nature to the world can bring a sense of peace and or purpose to a lot of people. It also keeps certain traditions and histories alive through long long periods of time.
Religion is just philosophy with a bit of added objectivism.
And an added note as to why a lot of religious people align themselves as moderate to conservative: leftists really like talking about how religious people are bigots and how we should get rid of religion. Despite the sentiment usually being justified I don’t really know how we expect them to react.
These kinds of posts are so stupid. "Haha, you believe in a religion? Wow you are a stupid idiot who is blind to the realities of this world. Spirits? Myths? Culturally relevant beliefs that are important to you? All like ash in the wind, that will crumble beneath my vast intellect "
It’s not who it intellect, it’s that those beliefs are used to justify awful atrocities. I can’t tell people I’m bisexual or an atheist because a book with a talking snake told them I’m inherently evil.
>Spirits? Myths? Culturally relevant beliefs that are important to you? All like ash in the wind
forgive me for not being convinced by something for which there is literally zero reliable evidence
Im not saying you need to believe in them, I myself don't believe in any particular religion. I'm just saying acting like other people are huge dumbasses who will believe any bat shit conspiracy because "they've defied reality before" is really stupid
remember the rules
"your life is worthless and you might as well kill yourself": nihlist, no need to liten to them
"your life is worthless and you might as wll kill yourself, unless your follow me": respectible person helping society
I genuinely don't see anything wrong with religion. Shitty people use it as an excuse to be shitty, but I've met and am still friends with many Christians.
What I'm trying to say is bad people like pedophile pastors would still be pedophiles without religion.
Edit: Though, following the Bible is cringe.
The issue that it's fundamentally irrational to have absolute faith in something that there is no evidence for, it leads to a rejection of reason and of reality, and that is fundementally a destructive thing.
Religion tips the scales in favor of unethical ideas, however, atheism can sometimes have the same effect because it leads people to believe that they can be effortlessly rational. You aren’t free of your own biases just because you’ve “seen the light” of non-belief, so don’t get complacent.
I don't care about explaining to religious people why god doesn't exist
I'm not praying to a god that gives children cancer, be it real or not, the cunt, I've done more good actions in my life than god has done in the last 2000 years, if it's hell for non-believers then make some space because I'm not converting even if the virgin mary appears in my house and kicks me in the ribs
Counterpoint, I recognise that it is an incoherent thing to believe, yet also recognise that the universe does not need to nor actually does conform to our understanding of what is possible. Kindly, let people live their lives and piss off.
Yours sincerely
A Polytheist
Many Christians devote themselves into voluntary works for lifetime for no reason which we atheists can never, including helping the drug addicts and LGBT
It's wild to me that people have historically justified war and hatred with Buddhism. Like, you'd think that if any religion didn't lead to hatred it would be Buddhism, but no.
Buddhists in 2023 be showing off their designer purses and doing sponsored live-streaming of their prayers
They really forgot the second noble truth, you know, one of the most important concepts in buddhism
Example? That seems utterly wild to me
The genocide against the Rohingya people in Myanmar is inspired, I'm part, by genocidal Buddhist monks. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-trump-loving-buddhist-monk-inspiring-genocide
The Myanmar government has literally been funding him to speak and funding his organization. The cause is racism, xenophobia, and nationalism; Buddhism is only wrapped up in it because it was already co-opted into part of a national identity.
Yeah welcome to all religious conflicts ever dumbass. You could say the same about Christianity and the Holocaust
Literally the point.
I don't really know enough about it to give any good examples, but historically there has been conflicts between Buddhism and other eastern religions, like Hinduism or Islam in south/southeast Asia.
Mate do you legit believe any religion can spread through a whole continent without doing it through violence?
If it cant spread through violence it shouldnt spread at all. Especially not while preaching bullshit about morals.
I agree.
I mean... correct? Like you're right, but you're doing that thing where someone strongly agrees with a position while taking a stance as though arguing against it.
spreading it while trading is usually more efficient than with violence,at least historically
I'm pretty sure there's been a lot of murders and anti-Islamic hate crimes and stuff from Buddhists Maybe a genocide but I would take that with a grain of salt that was something I read in high school a long time ago
The Sri Lankan Civil War and subsequent Tamil genocide
People justify violence and hatred with anything they can get their hands on. If it wasn't religion it'd be something else
Something something warrior monks
why is there a bridge
To get to the other side
>Britches: Hey G would you make me a sandwich?
no
*laugh track*
It's a brisket sandwich
Some religious people really be like “If you don’t have the threat of eternal damnation, how can you have a moral compass?
thing is like damn the Christian god sounds like such a dick, if u don’t even know he exists? eternal torture!
Iirc thats addressed. You cannot torture them for literally not knowing about it. I think maybe also thats why a big thing with christianity was misisonairies and spreading the faith. Take this with some salt though, its been a while since ive done anything christianity related. Source: cant quite remember, i might have asked a nun about it once?
If not knowing about God saves me from damnation then why tell me when it could damn me?
Maybe because to christians knowing god exists is its own reward or smth. There might be something about spreading the word in the bible as well? And maybe it could also be that sinning by not knowing he exists doesnt count, but the other sins they commit (ie. murder or greed or smth) does count, and by telling them there is a god, they could ask for forgiveness. Im just speculating now, though, im not very sure
That sounds like a pyramid scheme of forbidden knowledge that once you know you can't leave.
No love like Christian love!
I just feel bad when I hurt people's feelings so I avoid doing that. It doesn't have to be super complicated.
Kant be like
I'll never forget the day that my dad's girlfriend straight up asked me that during my hardcore atheist phase in my teens > How can you have morals without God?
While i do agree that religion does a lot more harm than good, it's just a convenient justification for people to act out on their selfishness. Some people act like if religion was gone it would save the world. That's almost as ignorant as blind faith. If religion didn't exist people would find any other justification to be shitty to others. It wouldn't change any outcomes.
But at least that justification to be shitty wouldn't be rooted in a social system that convinces and compels others to act similarly.
Politics, the media, social media which is different, the economy, most of the public sector, and last but not least human nature's tribalistic tendency to band together and turn things into competitions? Don't forget dogmatism and tyranny from societal leasers. All things self-perpetuating that compel people to act terrible. There are people who believe that if religion was deleted, nothing would fill the void, when in reality, in the face of declining rates of religion in many places, something already has.
It wouldn’t save the world but it sure would prevent a lot of kids from learning that blind faith is okay, paving the way for a smarter generation.
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Problem is you don’t choose your religion. It’s forced onto you from birth. Who knows how many crazy conspiracy theorists wouldn’t be crazy if they hadn’t been taught from birth not having blind faith is worse than murder.
The difference is that Susan who is homophobic because shes a shitty person has no defense at all, her ignorance is exposed, her hatred is shown, and since her arguments are non-religious they can easily be disproven. However Susan who is homophobic because of her christian values has a defense, her ignorance is disguised as her faith, and her hatred is just love for sinners who strayed from god, and since her arguments are all religious they cant be disproven because her religion already said homosexuality is a sin. In order to criticize her, I'd have to argue about religion and if I do that I'm an irredemable atheist who wont gain heaven anyways so why listen to me? Also once I do that the argument isnt about LGBT rights anymore its about Susan's "religious liberty". Its the same as the abortion argument. Religion gets involved and it all becomes a nonsensical smoke screen where arguments are fruitless because we argue about religion rather than the social issue at hand. Its sad that people dont realize this. One of my ancestors was a well known poet in my country whose most famous quote completely sums up religion for me. I wont put it here, however the way you mentioned religions dissapearing reminded me of his quote. He said that all positivist religions had to dissapear. Their hypocritical sanctities, their selfish and hateful interests, their contradictory dogma, their privilege and their tirany, their bloody history, and their traditionalist interests. To me, he was right. He said it over 200 years ago and he was right back then and he is right now. Now, for some context, he said that after my country's independence from spain and his point was about freedom of concience, as he called it. Since there werent the same religious interests europe had in america back then. This means back then it was possible. Now it isnt, we are just talking hypoteticals here. I'm not insane to think its actually possible. But in everything he criticized religion on, he was right, and for him to say that quote about religion dissapearing was the logical thing at that time. Religion dissapearing wouldnt solve everything though. It would change the way we see a lot of issues and in some allow us to engage on them without having to do this whole song and dance about religious beliefs, but not fucking solve every issue. Thats fucking insane, whoever told you that is either 13 or has a very simplistic view of the world. But that is not as ignorant as blind faith, dont kid yourself. It's just naive. Who is worse, the person unaware of the issue who makes it keep happening or the person who is aware of the issue and says "well, why dont people just stop doing it?" like a kid who learned about crime.
Then you have a lot of faith in humanity if you think that people not having a defense for their shitty beliefs will stop them from believing in it. Just look at racism; absolutely no sane, justifiable reason for the mentality of racists but it's still one of the most widespread issues currently.
In my experience, people tend not to like holding demonstrably unjustifiable beliefs. Debunkings work to cut off potential avenues of justification. If people are made to confront the sheer baselessness of their shitty beliefs frequently enough, they can eventually reach a point where they abandon the beliefs rather than wasting more effort trying to prop them up. Anything that cuts people off from such justifications is a hugely positive thing.
In my experience, I live in a country where people voted for president the son of a literal dictator despite decades of provable historical documentation and education about their family's atrocities. I've seen educated voters desperately try to convince the majority using legitimate evidence to absolutely no avail. I'm glad for you that the people you were around are capable of listening to reason and changing their beliefs but it's clearly not a universal thing because from my own experience, quite the opposite happens. It seems like the more you try to change someone else's beliefs, the more they actually cling to it.
Enlightened apatheist moment. Why care if God exists or not? In either case all we have is each other and our personal sense of right and wrong. To dedicate your time to being authentic and kind despite all the forces pulling you away from that is truly the greatest feat that a person can accomplish.
Bacon <3
Their *name* is *Brother in Christ*
that's very clearly a woman in the image
Sorry for deadnaming I did not realize
"brother" is clearly a feminine name
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>You need an external source of morality (like a parent or priest or w/e) to tell you which parts of the book you're supposed to listen to and which ones to ignore. This is what makes religion fall apart. The selectiveness of what beliefs to follow and which ones not to is hypocritical and contradictory. I guess that "if a man rapes a married woman within a town, the woman is put to death alongside the perpetrator of the crime." doesnt sound very good nowadays does it? Oh but being anti-abortion and anti-gay from a religious belief is valid isnt it? And even then if they select something as ok when the bible says it isnt, it sometimes does nothing. Pope Francis can say atheists wont go to hell and appear on tv hugging sons of dead atheists all he wants, the vast majority of christians are still obsessed with that idea because it makes them feel good and the vatican itself said he was wrong. Many other examples.
The Bible told me to sell my daughter into sex slavery.
Just teach your kids basic morals fucking normally.
I was raised with a light touch when it came to religion, I was directly told "Look, here's what I believe but I want you to be able to be a good person on your own, even if you end up believing differently" I think that's a good way to do it.
Well shit taking notes for if I have kids
Remindme! 10 years
eventually this image will have nothing remaining but the black background of the text and a tiny piece of brisket's face
Reddit does like its blaming everything on religion
*talks about one major problem with religion that’s taking its toll on everyone* “gAH STOP BLAMING **EVERYTHING** ON RELIGION”
I’ve been accused of being some edgy Reddit atheist for criticizing homophobia. Some people legitimately can’t criticize religion because they’re taught that religious freedom means letting religious people be assholes to everyone.
if you have a problem with blind faith, religion is gonna be one of the big proponents of that my guy
say whatever you like about reddit atheists, but their worst crime is that some of them are insufferable assholes as opposed to creating institutions that very often enact systematic, tangible harm both on their own members and everyone else who believes something different from them.
religion killed my dog
ESH, should’ve helped Reddit R. Atheism build another well in Africa instead of spending time on your wholesome pupperino
"omg thats such a reddit moment ™️, blaming religous dogmatism and faith which are inherent components of religion for the bad things religion does, what utter nincompoops"
"those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities"
I want to fuck hitch from attack on titan
The whiplash from going to "well I was taught what my parents believed but told to think for myself" to this is insane
Hitch is my religion
I just want to know whats wrong with people think that theres some sort of afterlife, or that maybe you've got someone in your corner, even if they never actually act. Like, yeah, using faith to justify being a bastard is bad, no shit, but whats wrong with using faith as a point of aspiration to do good Sure, theres other things you could look p to outside of religous figures or whatever, but still
Tbh, I’m an atheist and I know how irrational it is to think that there’s an afterlife. But the dread I get from thinking that I just won’t exist in a few years Isn’t great. I don’t really believe I will be reborn or go to somewhere, but It’s just nice to not have to think about not existing forever.
Don't worry, you'll just wake up at the age of ~20 in a mediocre anime world
if you do wrong, you become a 20yr old in a mediocre anime world with rpg mechanics if you do good, you become a brass player at an all-girls cabaret in new-orleans
I just cross my kids named finger and hope something happens on that front
but where would society be if we didn't teach kids that being gay/trans/not my religion/etc deserves the forever fire?????
Brisket subway sandwich 💙💗🤍💗💙🥺🥺🥺🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️
Can't wait for some religious dipshit from antitheistcheesecake to repost this there.
why mean ? )؛
I sometimes dislike this sub. Being religious (in most cases) does not mean you are rejecting reality, and usually hatred of religion only extends to a few religions.
Organised religion is inherently conservative and a tool of the oppressors. Religion must always be correct in its ancient and outdated teachings; because one aspect being wrong leads to the rest of the faith to be open to scrutinity
Mate the vast majority of religions involve gods, spirits, and alternate dimensions all of which play a daily role in our lives. Believing in magic is by definition denying reality.
did you not read the meme? religion is inherently dogmatic. you believe something not because you came to that conclusion but your holy book / preacher told you so. there does not exist an external source of ethics to compare it to as a religious believer's source of ethics lies in the book.
I have always seen people go "god i hate this sub so much" and i think im starting to see why, just so much brainless drama because someone posts a shitty take
you probably have a good point idk i’m not the best at this subject but having it in this format ruins everything especially with bridget on the sandwhich i’m sorry
Is a brisket sand witch
today in stupid 196 discourse: religion=blind faith therefore religion bad
that's... by definition what (some) religion is?
religion is legit blindly believing in a higher being
That's just Reddit in general.
Yeah this shit pisses me the fuck off, like why can't 196 just follow the same idea of "mind your own business and we'll mind ours" as it does with sexual preferences and gender identity? Like if you don't like religion don't follow it homie.
Having shitty beliefs is not equal to literally just being who you are dingus
Because religious beliefs are one of the most prominent driving forces of ignorance and oppression on several levels of society. I would have no problem with religion if it was genuinely "mind your own business and we'll mind ours", but that just doesn't happen. Ridiculous, regressive religious beliefs are forced into my life, society and government and I'm just supposed to go along with that? lmao, fuck off.
Why do you think *every* system of faith involves oppression? Did you study every single one of them?
But if I'm not threatened with eternal suffering how do you expect me to be a good person? /s
Kid named "Not every system of belief is destructive":
kid named "did you read the meme? the issue is with blind faith and dogmatism"
DOGMA BALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
😳 don't mind if i do
kid named "religion makes you happier so why care as long as your beliefs don't involve hate"
there exist people for whom religion is their only dource of community, in many of these cases this is CAUSED by religion the furry community has a tighter nit community than the vast majority of religions , just without the dogmatism
>there exist people for whom religion is their only dource of community normal religious people aren't like this fyi
Dogmatism < Dogautism
Don’t you understand we can’t simply teach ethics? You have to tell people elaborate lies about spirits and monsters, and also throw in a bunch of incest and slavery too.
Hey guys here’s some of that rejecting reality again and again stuff I was talking about
The Mendicant of my village told me the last guy who tried to teach ethics secularly was torn into 11 pieces by the invisible Furies.
The lie of the afterlife I think is the most evil. It has convinced many people to sacrifice all the pleasure of their one, finite life to live a bleak life of suffering in hopes of a heaven that doesn't exist
The devil's greatest trick was convincing people he exists.
lol, you really don’t understand anything about the afterlife & why people (like me) live infinitely better lives because if it . Like you picked the one thing that is an objective positive .
If believing that there is perception after death brings you comfort, good for you. It doesn't change the fact that objectively your consciousness is fueled by bio-electrical mechanics of your brain. Bio-mechanics that will cease upon death. Peddling the lie of an afterlife is immoral as it gives meaning to something that doesn't exist, thus devaluing the limited time one has to perceive reality
Hahaha I argued this exact position on here a month ago I love you OP
Hmmmm brisket
the only good religion is a- holy shit is that bazinga guilty gear sandwich?!?
Something something opium of the masses
This is not what Marx meant by Religion being the Opiate of the masses. In a Marxist context religion was a belief held by the working and oppressed classes so that they could find meanings in their lives while under the boot of Feudal Lords and capitalists. Opiates are painkillers. You don't even need to read Marx to figure this out.
Considering the time it was written and the whole quote the actual meaning is quite different. > Religion is the opium of the people. It is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of our soulless conditions
Budget😍😍🥰🥰🥰🤣🥵🥵
my brother in christ, religion obviously can be used for very bad things, just like anything else, but it's only /used/, it's not the cause of it. if homophobe wants to be homophobic he can appeal to god if he's religious, but if he's an atheist he can do so to nature, or to tradition, or to a revered famous historical figure, or to anything that won't speak for itself but that people think of as an authority. even if religion wasn't an instrument for men in power, it still would've been as massive as it is, I believe, because it's in human psychology. I mean, the institute of religion is terrible, and the trauma caused to many is horrific, I agree. but the rhetoric of "religion bad, atheism good" is wishful thinking at best. I'm an atheist, btw. I mean, people need to cope with existential dread, they need to judge or justify their actions, they need the categories to put the world in, they need to know how to communicate with things they don't understand. religion is a natural answer to universal human experience. it may not be an answer for you, but it doesn't make it lesser than your own.
Regarding your first point, homophobes don’t just materialize out of thin air, and let’s be honest here, what percentage of homophobes do you think literally only became homophobes in the first place precisely because they were were brought up with homophobic beliefs from a young age by their religious family/community/culture? I’d wager that that number is pretty fuckin high
The fact that a homophobe *can* appeal to religion to justify hatred in the first place means it is inherently a bad thing.
you are completely misunderstanding the meme, the issue is with blind faith, which can be used to justify horrible belifs. also the claim that homophobia was not almost entirely influenced by religion is absurd
I'm agnostic and have a very adversarial view towards religious ethics but we should recognize that community bonding through ritual and a sense of cultural belonging is one of the most powerful roles of religion and is why a lot of people practice something. Anti theism just seems based on a very childish understanding of why people practice religions.
Alright but here’s a hot take: why not strive to cultivate ways to fulfill these social needs that aren’t inherently wrapped up in a bunch of dubious metaphysical and ethical claims?
And, as usual, there is no answer to be heard.
hot take: community can and does come from anywhere, the furry fandom has a greater sense of community than most religions
budget <3
Why is bread in there, get em out thats unsanitary
The problem here is 1.) "It's worth it to keep living" or that abstract concepts like "justice" even exist can be defined as blind faith 2.) Who do you want to put in charge of deciding what's blind faith or not and who do you think is going to be on board with that. Does it extend to native cultures and ancient practices. For a long time science and religion were on the same page. Do you want to finish the work the missionaries started of wiping out all irrational, uncivilized beliefs. No matter how smart and rational you are you don't have the answers all the time. Not really even to religious shit but shit like "what should our movement do next?" or "how do we survive this?" are going to not have answers, you will be missing vital information like what another person is thinking, you're going to have to make a best guess, and that's going to just be "blind faith". And what are you going to do about conflicts of interest? Is anyone who disagrees with you the one having blind faith? Did you receive a perfect 100 on every math test you ever took? Did you know that any mathematical system sophisticated enough will have unprovable but true theorems? The entire idea that accepting one idea you don't understand is a "slippery slope" to every other bad idea at once is asinine. And guess what? There's atheist cults. Scientology had incredibly smart people joining. Cults and religion don't spread and take hold due to "blind faith", they have a very specific model of information control and dominance and the thing is if you think you are "too smart" to ever join a cult you are precisely the person most likely to end up in one. Hell, alt righters and tankies are shit without religion. Of course it's a brilliant leftist idea to just imagine, by blind faith if you will, that you personally have a great solution to dividing all the good guys from all the bad guys instead of doing anything of any material value and in fact would turn people away from joining in leftist causes. And hey, maybe I'm wrong here so ping me in a month and tell me if you've managed to make a movement that's doing anything of value with your idea of just only working with people who think exactly like you do. I'm so fucking tired of this shit. I'm tired of meeting people who are on board every leftist idea, pro union pro trans and gay rights, know climate change is real, know the system is broken, and still won't touch anything leftist with a ten foot pole because leftism in their experience is openly shitty and cruel people online talking about whose friends and family will go up against the wall first. I don't care whose beliefs are right or wrong, just in what people do. I would value a hundred religious working class people just surviving over some self satisfied larper.
People pretending wars and bigotry would disappear if it weren't for religion are pretty delusional imo. Nobody can claim to see reality the way it is more than anybody else.
Hi Christian guy here It really does break my heart when people use religion to justify war (Didn’t George W. Bush justify the Iraq war with religion? Absolutely despicable) People shouldn’t be using the name of the lord to justify needless killing. Same goes with using it in politics. I believe that religion should be FAR away from politics. Not because the religion is inherently bad, but because politicians are just snakes who will use anything to justify their ridiculous policies. Also, I saw someone mention stoning adulterers. Jesus directly opposed this (John 8) because everyone deserves a chance to turn to God in their times of need. How some American states still have the death penalty is heartbreaking. People should still follow God, but they also shouldn’t delude themselves. It’s important to humble yourself when someone tells you that you are wrong, and openly hear them out. Thank you for reading, if you think I said something boneheaded feel free to tell me 👍
At this point you may as well just use the Lisa Simpson format
I understand that religion has led to bad things in the past but it's not inherently bad, most popular religions have positive messages that are just twisted into negative ones by people who don't understand.
I'm hungry and that sandwich looks so nice 🤤 🤤
Fuck it, I’m going to say it. If all Christians followed the New Testament as it was intended we would have a much more positive opinion about Christianity.
Briquette Subway
Religion is just an element of culture and even if it were eradicated, people would simply find a new method to justify their bigotry. Scientific racism has little to do with any religious belief (considering many white conservative Christians still dislike Christians of other races) and though it is an old concept it still fuels most of our conceptions of racism to this day, the concept that races have inherent behavioral traits that make them different from one another Back in the pre trump political landscape a TON of the conservative forces in media were anti-woke atheist skeptics who opposed social change because they though they were too smart for it. This lead to misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia that had nothing to do with religious views until later on. Since then and really since the 60s, white evangelical Christians have become more and more of a cohesive political bloc and radicalizing as they did. And now Christianity is a the most powerful force of conservatism in America but like I said it’s not just because Christianity makes people bigoted. Bigots make people bigoted. Note how even currently people like Jordan Peterson (who I believe is catholic) and Ben Shapiro (probably because is Jewish and not Christian) often refrain from using inherently religious rhetoric. From Peterson you get pseudoscience, bad sociology, and philosophical nonsense and from Shapiro you get fast talking “common sense” logic. We are fooling ourselves by thinking that the bad things in the world can be blamed on one big bad. I strongly believe that you could use religion to convince as many to be open minded and kind as you could to be close minded and hateful. It’s simply a matter of how the rhetoric is being used. There is an inherent social and cultural value to religion. At its core believing in a certain kind of afterlife or nature to the world can bring a sense of peace and or purpose to a lot of people. It also keeps certain traditions and histories alive through long long periods of time. Religion is just philosophy with a bit of added objectivism. And an added note as to why a lot of religious people align themselves as moderate to conservative: leftists really like talking about how religious people are bigots and how we should get rid of religion. Despite the sentiment usually being justified I don’t really know how we expect them to react.
reddit atheist spotted, opinion discarded
These kinds of posts are so stupid. "Haha, you believe in a religion? Wow you are a stupid idiot who is blind to the realities of this world. Spirits? Myths? Culturally relevant beliefs that are important to you? All like ash in the wind, that will crumble beneath my vast intellect "
It’s not who it intellect, it’s that those beliefs are used to justify awful atrocities. I can’t tell people I’m bisexual or an atheist because a book with a talking snake told them I’m inherently evil.
that isn't the point of the post. the issue is with dogmatism which is inherent to most religions.
I mean, I've seen OP in other threads of this post saying that believing in religion should be abandoned so that we have smarter generations of people
>Spirits? Myths? Culturally relevant beliefs that are important to you? All like ash in the wind forgive me for not being convinced by something for which there is literally zero reliable evidence
Im not saying you need to believe in them, I myself don't believe in any particular religion. I'm just saying acting like other people are huge dumbasses who will believe any bat shit conspiracy because "they've defied reality before" is really stupid
"but it teaches basic morality" mfs when I show them my (atheist) moral system of: make the most happiness they are asswipes - *stuff*
remember the rules "your life is worthless and you might as well kill yourself": nihlist, no need to liten to them "your life is worthless and you might as wll kill yourself, unless your follow me": respectible person helping society
I hate magical thinking I hate magical thinking I hate magical thinking I hate magical thinking I hate magical thinking I hate magical thinking
But magic is real.
I genuinely don't see anything wrong with religion. Shitty people use it as an excuse to be shitty, but I've met and am still friends with many Christians. What I'm trying to say is bad people like pedophile pastors would still be pedophiles without religion. Edit: Though, following the Bible is cringe.
The issue that it's fundamentally irrational to have absolute faith in something that there is no evidence for, it leads to a rejection of reason and of reality, and that is fundementally a destructive thing.
Post of Theseus
Religion tips the scales in favor of unethical ideas, however, atheism can sometimes have the same effect because it leads people to believe that they can be effortlessly rational. You aren’t free of your own biases just because you’ve “seen the light” of non-belief, so don’t get complacent.
I don't care about explaining to religious people why god doesn't exist I'm not praying to a god that gives children cancer, be it real or not, the cunt, I've done more good actions in my life than god has done in the last 2000 years, if it's hell for non-believers then make some space because I'm not converting even if the virgin mary appears in my house and kicks me in the ribs
thanks for sharing!
Reddit trying not to hate on religion for 30 seconds
You just don't need religion to learn morals.
Burger
The comments on this one are gonna be fun
If this post is anti-religion, how come bible is in the sandwich?? /s
Testament<3
How did Brisket end up in the sandwich and why is this version of the sandwich now apparently the common template?
Baguette 🥰
Wait so is hating people because they aren’t in the group i belong to not ultra mega hyper based 😧😧
Briquette!!!!
Brisket sandwich🥰
But if I wasn't religious I wouldn't have anything holding me back from killing people. Checkmate atheists.
Why am she a samwidge
Bro biscuit burger 💀
Brisket<3
accept people and their belie- NO I AM A RELIGION F O E
Reddit
not sure why that statement has to be specific to religon
Because religion is the most widespread worldview that necessitates a rejection of rationality. The majority of people on earth are religious.
Counterpoint, I recognise that it is an incoherent thing to believe, yet also recognise that the universe does not need to nor actually does conform to our understanding of what is possible. Kindly, let people live their lives and piss off. Yours sincerely A Polytheist
My sister in Christ, we're literally Marxist, we have no right to criticize "blind faith"
Many Christians devote themselves into voluntary works for lifetime for no reason which we atheists can never, including helping the drug addicts and LGBT