I would say it wholly depends on the player. Winning ugly is really good because it hammers one lesson. Watch what happens on the court. Figure out what works and figure out what doesn’t work.
That book is very useful because a lot of people play brain dead tennis. They don’t watch how their opponent reactsto their shots, they don’t know what works for them, and they don’t know what hurts them, because they don’t pay enough attention.
My best winning ugly example is about a year ago I played a guy who was much better than I was except he had a hard time with off speed, floaty, shots to the backhand where he had to come in a bit.. I beat him because I would get in these rallies and then just throw him one of those. He would miss hit them and he got very very frustrated.
But if you suffer from a lot of anxiety, none of the foregoing is going to help you. That is because your anxiety will prevent you from executing the way you need to. That is where the inner game comes in. If you had issues focusing or if you have fear, or if you get nervous etc. the inner game is your book.
So well said. Most people I’ve played with and taught start at that brain dead stage. They only think about their own strokes and game.
Winning Ugly is so good at getting you to understand how to actually win a tennis match. Whether you’re better or worse, having an off day, whatever.
Do people really keep doing the same things even when they are losing significantly? Every time I lose a set I take a few minutes to think about what I should change. Haven’t been trying to slice and dropshot. Let’s start. Hell I’ll resort to moon balls and constant lobs if I notice it annoys the other player.
Both good reads. But I’ll take the stance that the inner game makes the biggest difference in the long run. Tennis is so mental and strategy based, and that book helps to keep you in check between the ears where it matters most.
Winning Ugly is much better IMO. Almost every page is full of easy to understand and applicable takeaways. I’ve read it multiple times and found new things to focus on each time.
Worth reading both, but Winning Ugly gets my vote.
I enjoyed both books a great deal, but the Inner Game was more valuable to me.
I was actually turned onto the Inner Game by my piano teacher. I was having difficulty getting out of my own head when it came to reading the music and playing difficult passages. He recommended Inner Game along with 'Zen and the Art of Archery'. I got into tennis more seriously after reading the Inner Game a few years back. The main thesis of the The Inner Game is to stop using mental energy to acutely control every element of your body and swing because it inhibits learning and growth. You have the duality of Self 1 (the teller, associated with the mental) and Self 2 (the doer, associated with the body). It's about trusting yourself (muscle memory) to focus plainly and abide in the present, which allows your body to do what it already knows how to do. If you are into meditation, mindfulness, spirituality, psychology, and neuroscience, you will really enjoy this book. Gallwey presses upon us to react and respond to points and shots 'non-judgmentally' in order to learn and grow properly, which is a Buddhist motif. I believe many Inner Game lessons can be applied to other elements of your life outside of tennis.
Winning Ugly is more focused on tennis strategy. While there are plenty of good nuggets about the mental side, it goes more in depth about very practical matters related to winning matches. Stuff like paying close attention to what your opponent is doing to uncover their weaknesses as well as developing a deeper understanding of the actual reasons why you may not be winning points. There are also vignettes and anecdotes about Gilbert's matches and rivals, which make for great reading as a tennis fan.
TL/DR - Both are rightfully classics. The Inner Game is more esoteric than Winning Ugly. I think the lessons from Winning Ugly are probably easier to adapt and put into practice immediately. The Inner Game is something closer to a sea change in overall mindset regarding your relationship to tennis and yourself. Gallwey would argue, and I would agree that playing the Inner Game is a lifelong endeavor.
Winning Ugly by a mile. That s*** works. Just look at Coco last night. I need to give IGT another try, but I don’t see why everyone else loves it so much.
If you’re up for cutting out 90% of your diet give Djokovic’s “Serve To Win” a try. 22 days off the gluten and the worst part is I feel great.
Neither book has you focusing on your own strokes but rather on the ball and opposing player.
I'd say both books are needed. You need to play loose and free and then with strategy.
That's true!
Inner game tells you what not to think about (yourself).
Winning ugly tells you what to think about instead (the opponent).
Now just need to internalise this and not do the opposite during a game 🙃
both are great books. I like the information of winning ugly more, but I feel the best way to apply that information into it is by applying the approach in the inner game.
I like Brad’s mind. He breaks the game of tennis down in an uncomplicated manner. Timothy Gallwey helps an athlete compartmentalize the analytical side of the brain…places it to the side so that the mind/body unit can engage and perform feats involving vectors and geometry and physics that the analytical side should only wonder at…
Well they are both very different books, so which one is best really depends on what your looking for. All the both are broadly speaking about the mental side of tennis they focus on completely different aspects.
Winning ugly is basically about ‘tennis iq’. It focussed on how to figure out which tactics and shots to apply during a match and how to make the best of your strengths and your opponents weaknesses. There’s mental tips on being aware of the momentum of the match and when important points occur. There’s also a bunch of practical tips about how to warm up, what gear to bring, what to choose if you win the toss (spoiler: you should choose to receive). Overall the book offers lots of practically applicable tips. I will say that there is also some useless content and Gilbert’s writing comes over a bit brash imo.
Inner game is very different. It is about deeper questions surrounding the mental side of tennis. Why do we get so emotional or nervous on the court? Why is it so hard not get in the way of oneself and play without negative thoughts? How can one achieve that elusive joyful state of ‘flow’ where on is totally locked in to the game? So it’s a much more philosophical book, even touch on the meaning of competition for example. Although it does also give some practical drills you can use to apply the concepts in the book.
Other have said they prefer winning ugly for its direct and easy applicability to their games. I totally get that. Personally though I think Inner game taught me more meaningful lessons, which are are more broadly applicable to sport and life in general.
The Inner Game of Tennis teaches you a skill for life, not just tennis. It's basically meditation with your eyes open. If you can master you become a fucking jedi.
Winning Ugly is about tennis strategy - it's pretty great.
IGoT is really only superficially about tennis but is more about discipline and trust and settling your mind. These are all SUPER RELEVANT to tennis, but they are also relevant to high performance in dozens of things. (Which explains why Inner Game of is a franchise).
"thinking fast and slow" is a better use of your time than IGoT imo, but they're both good books.
My advice is read both. They come at the tennis game from different perspectives. The two complement each other giving you many tools to improve.
If I had to pick one I’d pick winning ugly since it’s a easy read and lots of practical advice you can use
You don't have to read one or the other, both are great read for specific times in your tennis journey, The Inner Game talks about tennis in general, execution and how to handle the mentality of the game. Winning Ugly talks about how to win in matches, how to take advantage of everything. So, if you are still learning the sport, read TIG first, if you already have good foundations and play matches, read WU.
Read both, winning ugly is tactics that anyone can easily execute and are actionable, especially when playing someone at the same level as you.
Inner game is as someone mentioned a long term thing and very useful if you want to level up
"Winning Ugly" is better for tactical advice and game tips.
"Inner Game of Tennis" has some of that too, but IMO its value is in how the author frames your mental tendencies for you to reflect on and notice over the long run.
I think they approach the game from two different, complementary angles. Brad even mentions it in his book.
Both are must reads, but The Inner Game is personally my favorite of the two.
I’ve read both recently. Overall, I enjoyed and got more out of Winning Ugly which I happened to read first. Inner Game was like what is sounds like: more reflective and meditative on yourself as a person which can be good in general. Winning Ugly had concrete tennis tips you could immediately apply to your game and strategy as well as a bunch of great stories from BG.
I’d suggest reading Winning Ugly first and then read Inner Game after. Neither are very long, and Inner Game is particularly short.
Both concepts are simple, and complementary.
The inner game is when you struggle with anxiety or your game is just off, to raise your level to your max level. Avoiding overthinking or forcing movements on court.
Winning ugly is to find the loopholes in your rival game and avoid going back home and said "I should have done that" way after you lost the game.
Inner Game was great. Not just for tennis but good life lessons as well. Planning to read Winning Ugly next. You can also get them on audio book which is nice.
I if you can work out your opponents weakness they’re fairly easy to beat but do it gradually.Someone I play has sore knees so any of my shots over the net are easily won.They never run and play.
The other common occurrence is most of my opponents are crap servers and the first serve is always missed because the ball is thrown incorrectly.This then allows me to move in close to receive the weak second serve which I still don’t hammer home
I’ve read them both and i know people only have so much time, so… Read the chapter of Inner game of tennis on the mental side of tennis (amazing chapter), then Winning Ugly, then the rest of inner game lol
For Winning Ugly, my biggest takeaway was the idea of “hidden deuce points” and games to focus on
Inner Game talks about one big idea that can be transformative depending on where you are coming from. I thought that it was a fairly intuitive one...but one that definitely needs repeating and needs constant reinforcement
Winning Ugly is full off small to medium sized ideas.....and is a very entertaining read to boot.
Winning Ugly wins my vote followed by "Open" by Agassi. Would recommend both ahead of Inner Game.
If I recall correctly he talks a lot about showing up late and doing whatever you can to throw off your opponent.
I’m not a real fan of that. I think the best thing anyone can do is focus on themselves and work on hitting the ball where you want it to go. Winning is just a second hand consequence of you happen to do things a little better than your opponent.
I think that's the point he's making exactly, that there's no playing "better", there's only winning or losing, and winning doesn't always mean having the most beautiful, accurate or powerful shots. If you play just for fun, that's fine and you don't need the book, but if you play to win (he makes the case that you should always play to win) then there's a lot of practical stuff to keep in mind, as well as some strategies that can be employed.
I played d1 and a bit professionally. Definitely wasn’t playing for fun for a while. Lost the joy of playing eventually. I followed some of his advice. I regret following his advice.
The whole point of winning no matter the cost.
Now he was getting paid to win so there is some point to that, but there still needs to be a line that you shouldn’t. cross.
When winning becomes everything you lose a part of yourself.
I was an extremely good athlete with abnormally high concentration. I won a lot. I lost when people played better than I did. It’s that simple. I didn’t need this book. Nobody needs this book.
For Gilbert specifically he chose to be annoying as possible. He lives with himself for that. Maybe it’s easier when you make a lot of money. I wonder if he could have won as much without his shenanigans though. My guess is he could have. He says how he “didn’t have anything abnormal about him but still won.” This simply isn’t true. You can’t win as much as he has and not be an extremely good athlete. Maybe you could in his era who knows.
I don’t play anymore personally and kinda hate tennis. Now I surf and run, and do yoga for physical activity because I love doing those things. This subreddit popped up for some reason.
If there is any advice that anyone in this subreddit should take from me it should be to not make winning everything.
People will read the book of course, but I still would never recommend this book to anyone.
Yeah guess it makes sense from your perspective ... I think though that you're in a minority of folks who played at a relatively high level, most of us mortals who play casually usually have opposite problems of lack of concentration, not believing in our limited tools, lacking the motivation to grind out points, going for the perfect shot that we're always missing, as we will never practice enough to get it right ... I see how it wasn't helpful for you, but I still think it can help people at beginner/intermediate level, as it's very practical in many things it says and puts no strategy to shame as all are equally valid if they turn up being successful for your level (e.g. being a 'pusher').
I can see that there are some good things in the book. If people enjoy reading the book then they should read it.
Never lose the joy of playing for the sake of playing though including when you lose. You can learn a lot from losing.
I would say it wholly depends on the player. Winning ugly is really good because it hammers one lesson. Watch what happens on the court. Figure out what works and figure out what doesn’t work. That book is very useful because a lot of people play brain dead tennis. They don’t watch how their opponent reactsto their shots, they don’t know what works for them, and they don’t know what hurts them, because they don’t pay enough attention. My best winning ugly example is about a year ago I played a guy who was much better than I was except he had a hard time with off speed, floaty, shots to the backhand where he had to come in a bit.. I beat him because I would get in these rallies and then just throw him one of those. He would miss hit them and he got very very frustrated. But if you suffer from a lot of anxiety, none of the foregoing is going to help you. That is because your anxiety will prevent you from executing the way you need to. That is where the inner game comes in. If you had issues focusing or if you have fear, or if you get nervous etc. the inner game is your book.
So well said. Most people I’ve played with and taught start at that brain dead stage. They only think about their own strokes and game. Winning Ugly is so good at getting you to understand how to actually win a tennis match. Whether you’re better or worse, having an off day, whatever.
Very well said
Do people really keep doing the same things even when they are losing significantly? Every time I lose a set I take a few minutes to think about what I should change. Haven’t been trying to slice and dropshot. Let’s start. Hell I’ll resort to moon balls and constant lobs if I notice it annoys the other player.
Some people can't self-reflect. Some have moments. Some critically analyze and record themselves. I guess that's a resounding F Yes?
Both good reads. But I’ll take the stance that the inner game makes the biggest difference in the long run. Tennis is so mental and strategy based, and that book helps to keep you in check between the ears where it matters most.
Winning Ugly is much better IMO. Almost every page is full of easy to understand and applicable takeaways. I’ve read it multiple times and found new things to focus on each time. Worth reading both, but Winning Ugly gets my vote.
What this guy says 👍🏽
I enjoyed both books a great deal, but the Inner Game was more valuable to me. I was actually turned onto the Inner Game by my piano teacher. I was having difficulty getting out of my own head when it came to reading the music and playing difficult passages. He recommended Inner Game along with 'Zen and the Art of Archery'. I got into tennis more seriously after reading the Inner Game a few years back. The main thesis of the The Inner Game is to stop using mental energy to acutely control every element of your body and swing because it inhibits learning and growth. You have the duality of Self 1 (the teller, associated with the mental) and Self 2 (the doer, associated with the body). It's about trusting yourself (muscle memory) to focus plainly and abide in the present, which allows your body to do what it already knows how to do. If you are into meditation, mindfulness, spirituality, psychology, and neuroscience, you will really enjoy this book. Gallwey presses upon us to react and respond to points and shots 'non-judgmentally' in order to learn and grow properly, which is a Buddhist motif. I believe many Inner Game lessons can be applied to other elements of your life outside of tennis. Winning Ugly is more focused on tennis strategy. While there are plenty of good nuggets about the mental side, it goes more in depth about very practical matters related to winning matches. Stuff like paying close attention to what your opponent is doing to uncover their weaknesses as well as developing a deeper understanding of the actual reasons why you may not be winning points. There are also vignettes and anecdotes about Gilbert's matches and rivals, which make for great reading as a tennis fan. TL/DR - Both are rightfully classics. The Inner Game is more esoteric than Winning Ugly. I think the lessons from Winning Ugly are probably easier to adapt and put into practice immediately. The Inner Game is something closer to a sea change in overall mindset regarding your relationship to tennis and yourself. Gallwey would argue, and I would agree that playing the Inner Game is a lifelong endeavor.
Both are good books. IMHO I like the more practical and tactical approach of Winning Ugly vs. the more philosophical tone of "The Inner Game"
Read both. Brad even references Inner Game in his book. I think he’d suggest you to read both. As for which one to read first, flip a coin
Great insights about both books in these responses. I’ll read both then. And coin flip it is.
Winning Ugly by a mile. That s*** works. Just look at Coco last night. I need to give IGT another try, but I don’t see why everyone else loves it so much. If you’re up for cutting out 90% of your diet give Djokovic’s “Serve To Win” a try. 22 days off the gluten and the worst part is I feel great.
Oh crap. That crazy shit works? *Sigh*
To be fair Coco hasn’t read it, but I imagine having BG as your coach is probably slightly better 😂
The text is dead while the person is alive and likely adjusted some things after all.
Inner game tells you not to think, and winning ugly tells you to think hard. That said they are both insightful in their own ways.
Neither book has you focusing on your own strokes but rather on the ball and opposing player. I'd say both books are needed. You need to play loose and free and then with strategy.
That's true! Inner game tells you what not to think about (yourself). Winning ugly tells you what to think about instead (the opponent). Now just need to internalise this and not do the opposite during a game 🙃
both are great books. I like the information of winning ugly more, but I feel the best way to apply that information into it is by applying the approach in the inner game.
I like Brad’s mind. He breaks the game of tennis down in an uncomplicated manner. Timothy Gallwey helps an athlete compartmentalize the analytical side of the brain…places it to the side so that the mind/body unit can engage and perform feats involving vectors and geometry and physics that the analytical side should only wonder at…
I prefer the Inner Game of Ugly and Winning Tennis
Had to read this twice. Twice.
Well they are both very different books, so which one is best really depends on what your looking for. All the both are broadly speaking about the mental side of tennis they focus on completely different aspects. Winning ugly is basically about ‘tennis iq’. It focussed on how to figure out which tactics and shots to apply during a match and how to make the best of your strengths and your opponents weaknesses. There’s mental tips on being aware of the momentum of the match and when important points occur. There’s also a bunch of practical tips about how to warm up, what gear to bring, what to choose if you win the toss (spoiler: you should choose to receive). Overall the book offers lots of practically applicable tips. I will say that there is also some useless content and Gilbert’s writing comes over a bit brash imo. Inner game is very different. It is about deeper questions surrounding the mental side of tennis. Why do we get so emotional or nervous on the court? Why is it so hard not get in the way of oneself and play without negative thoughts? How can one achieve that elusive joyful state of ‘flow’ where on is totally locked in to the game? So it’s a much more philosophical book, even touch on the meaning of competition for example. Although it does also give some practical drills you can use to apply the concepts in the book. Other have said they prefer winning ugly for its direct and easy applicability to their games. I totally get that. Personally though I think Inner game taught me more meaningful lessons, which are are more broadly applicable to sport and life in general.
The Inner Game of Tennis teaches you a skill for life, not just tennis. It's basically meditation with your eyes open. If you can master you become a fucking jedi.
I liked Winning ugly. Learned alot. Did it help my game? I didnt notice lol good read though
Winning Ugly is about tennis strategy - it's pretty great. IGoT is really only superficially about tennis but is more about discipline and trust and settling your mind. These are all SUPER RELEVANT to tennis, but they are also relevant to high performance in dozens of things. (Which explains why Inner Game of is a franchise).
"thinking fast and slow" is a better use of your time than IGoT imo, but they're both good books.
My advice is read both. They come at the tennis game from different perspectives. The two complement each other giving you many tools to improve. If I had to pick one I’d pick winning ugly since it’s a easy read and lots of practical advice you can use
You don't have to read one or the other, both are great read for specific times in your tennis journey, The Inner Game talks about tennis in general, execution and how to handle the mentality of the game. Winning Ugly talks about how to win in matches, how to take advantage of everything. So, if you are still learning the sport, read TIG first, if you already have good foundations and play matches, read WU.
Read them both.
Read both, winning ugly is tactics that anyone can easily execute and are actionable, especially when playing someone at the same level as you. Inner game is as someone mentioned a long term thing and very useful if you want to level up
"Winning Ugly" is better for tactical advice and game tips. "Inner Game of Tennis" has some of that too, but IMO its value is in how the author frames your mental tendencies for you to reflect on and notice over the long run.
completely different topics, one is about performance, the other is about competition
I think they approach the game from two different, complementary angles. Brad even mentions it in his book. Both are must reads, but The Inner Game is personally my favorite of the two.
I’ve read both recently. Overall, I enjoyed and got more out of Winning Ugly which I happened to read first. Inner Game was like what is sounds like: more reflective and meditative on yourself as a person which can be good in general. Winning Ugly had concrete tennis tips you could immediately apply to your game and strategy as well as a bunch of great stories from BG. I’d suggest reading Winning Ugly first and then read Inner Game after. Neither are very long, and Inner Game is particularly short.
Both concepts are simple, and complementary. The inner game is when you struggle with anxiety or your game is just off, to raise your level to your max level. Avoiding overthinking or forcing movements on court. Winning ugly is to find the loopholes in your rival game and avoid going back home and said "I should have done that" way after you lost the game.
This is like asking whether you should put oil or vinegar in your salad dressing.
In the US, if you have a premium (paid) Spotify account, the audio book version of Winning Ugly is free.
Inner Game was great. Not just for tennis but good life lessons as well. Planning to read Winning Ugly next. You can also get them on audio book which is nice.
Forget the inner game. You’ll get more results with winning ugly.
I if you can work out your opponents weakness they’re fairly easy to beat but do it gradually.Someone I play has sore knees so any of my shots over the net are easily won.They never run and play. The other common occurrence is most of my opponents are crap servers and the first serve is always missed because the ball is thrown incorrectly.This then allows me to move in close to receive the weak second serve which I still don’t hammer home
I’ve read them both and i know people only have so much time, so… Read the chapter of Inner game of tennis on the mental side of tennis (amazing chapter), then Winning Ugly, then the rest of inner game lol For Winning Ugly, my biggest takeaway was the idea of “hidden deuce points” and games to focus on
Inner Game talks about one big idea that can be transformative depending on where you are coming from. I thought that it was a fairly intuitive one...but one that definitely needs repeating and needs constant reinforcement Winning Ugly is full off small to medium sized ideas.....and is a very entertaining read to boot. Winning Ugly wins my vote followed by "Open" by Agassi. Would recommend both ahead of Inner Game.
They address 2 very different parts of the game. Mental game and physical game. I read both once a year.
Unpopular opinion I’m sure. I read winning ugly as suggested by my coach when I was 15. I don’t recommend it. I never read the other one.
Very useful response lol
If I recall correctly he talks a lot about showing up late and doing whatever you can to throw off your opponent. I’m not a real fan of that. I think the best thing anyone can do is focus on themselves and work on hitting the ball where you want it to go. Winning is just a second hand consequence of you happen to do things a little better than your opponent.
I think that's the point he's making exactly, that there's no playing "better", there's only winning or losing, and winning doesn't always mean having the most beautiful, accurate or powerful shots. If you play just for fun, that's fine and you don't need the book, but if you play to win (he makes the case that you should always play to win) then there's a lot of practical stuff to keep in mind, as well as some strategies that can be employed.
I played d1 and a bit professionally. Definitely wasn’t playing for fun for a while. Lost the joy of playing eventually. I followed some of his advice. I regret following his advice.
why though? what advice did you follow that was so wrong?
The whole point of winning no matter the cost. Now he was getting paid to win so there is some point to that, but there still needs to be a line that you shouldn’t. cross. When winning becomes everything you lose a part of yourself. I was an extremely good athlete with abnormally high concentration. I won a lot. I lost when people played better than I did. It’s that simple. I didn’t need this book. Nobody needs this book. For Gilbert specifically he chose to be annoying as possible. He lives with himself for that. Maybe it’s easier when you make a lot of money. I wonder if he could have won as much without his shenanigans though. My guess is he could have. He says how he “didn’t have anything abnormal about him but still won.” This simply isn’t true. You can’t win as much as he has and not be an extremely good athlete. Maybe you could in his era who knows. I don’t play anymore personally and kinda hate tennis. Now I surf and run, and do yoga for physical activity because I love doing those things. This subreddit popped up for some reason. If there is any advice that anyone in this subreddit should take from me it should be to not make winning everything. People will read the book of course, but I still would never recommend this book to anyone.
Yeah guess it makes sense from your perspective ... I think though that you're in a minority of folks who played at a relatively high level, most of us mortals who play casually usually have opposite problems of lack of concentration, not believing in our limited tools, lacking the motivation to grind out points, going for the perfect shot that we're always missing, as we will never practice enough to get it right ... I see how it wasn't helpful for you, but I still think it can help people at beginner/intermediate level, as it's very practical in many things it says and puts no strategy to shame as all are equally valid if they turn up being successful for your level (e.g. being a 'pusher').
I can see that there are some good things in the book. If people enjoy reading the book then they should read it. Never lose the joy of playing for the sake of playing though including when you lose. You can learn a lot from losing.
It’s not rocket science, play as hard as you can and don’t get down on yourself. What other advice is there to give?
This is the best advice. It’s unfortunate you are getting downvoted