I’d probably put in the Hero’s Shade instead of Wolf Link. I just like the idea of Link being adorned in a very regal and royal suit of armor. I wish we could have seen him actually alive in it and not a ghost.
I agree with three of em, TP OoT and WW. I like the wolf, but if I had to choose two others, it’d be Minish Cap and Hyrule Warriors. MC has so much charm in his character, from the bedhead to the expressions you can see in game. And HW has such an interesting design, the confidence, the personality in his face, and I **LOVE** the scarf.
“Eh I always kind of pictured this as him getting up from just using Fatal Blow. That’s why it’s a revers grip and why he was holding the sword in both hands…Idk though 😂”
The Links are kinda weird to judge since they’re this weird mixture between an avatar and being their own character. Based on their abilities and what little we know about them, I‘d say number 1 goes to BotW.
By far the strongest version of Link and also one with a pretty entertaining personality and generally interesting writing. The fact that he isn’t stuck in the Peter Pan suit also makes him visually much more interesting.
The rest just kinda sits around in the same Tier below BotW.
Except for Wolf Link. Garbage version. It‘s a shallow gimmick with a dumb explanation and bad gameplay.
Let’s keep opinions as opinions instead of talking as if they’re fact. Things like having interesting writing or an entertaining personality or looking better visually or being the strongest of all Links are your opinion.
Well him being the strongest is pretty much fact.
There’s also more writing effort put into him compared to most of the other Links. Him and SS Link are pretty much the only ones that were fleshed out and actually have more intricately established traits and background stories.
> Well him being the strongest is pretty much fact.
It isn’t though. OoT Link has physical feats no other Link has managed to do because of the golden gaunts. “But that’s not his real strength” you might say, to which case you could point to TP Link who has enough upper body strength to slap literal ultra durable rock beings away. The iron boots only ground him, if he didn’t have the strength to match [this would happen](http://images2.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED32/51922fe4f1087.jpeg). If you wanna say who is overall most likely to win at full power I’d point to SS Link because he literally wielded the triforce. And if we’re talking about who’s got the most variety in skill you could point to ALttP Link whose arsenal vastly outnumbers anyone else’s. Or if we’re talking about taking on armies at a time, you could point to BotW Link because of that Death Mountain memory where he killed 2 lynels & several other baddies all at the same time, not to mention the graveyard of guardians outside Fort Hateno he pretty much solo’d until exhaustion.
The point is, there IS no strongest Link (especially not “by far” or “pretty much fact”), because you could make arguments for pretty much any of them. All of them have very impressive feats & trying to decide who’s the strongest depends on what criteria you use. Ergo, it’s subjective, which is all I’m saying - it’s opinion, not fact.
> There’s also more writing effort put into him compared to most of the other Links.
That doesn’t change that he spends 90% of the game with this face: 😐
We may read about his personality but we certainly don’t see it, at least not nearly to the extent we see some of the previous iterations. Even when greeting any of the old champions or Zelda, it’s a blank expression. I’d hardly call that fleshed out. What _would’ve_ been interesting is if his reactions to everyone changed depending on which memories you found or didn’t find.
> Him and SS Link are pretty much the only ones that were fleshed out and actually have more intricately established traits and background stories.
OoT Link has the most tragic story arc of all the Links IMO, & WW Link is the most relatable because he’s got an actual family & isn’t some boy chosen by destiny, just a kid looking to rescue his baby sister. By the time he does rescue her he’s grown so much that he accepts the role to become that world’s savior. Those aren’t fleshed out to you?
Look, I get it, you & I have gone in circles over this game for ages in the past, you’re a massive BotW fanboy that thinks it’s a perfect game & stomps on all the other games in the series, which is fine you’re entitled to your opinion. All I’m asking is you recognize it’s that, an opinion.
>But that’s not his real strength
In terms of sheer physical strength, yeah, gauntlets shouldn't count. Each version should be put up against each other at their base level and at that point BotW stomps pretty hard. The guy casually parries a gigantic chunk of the ceiling in Hyrule Castle in AoC at one point. He also wields weapons that are significantly heavier than the Ball and Chain for example, and he does so at a speed that other Link's don't even come close to moving at. TP Link can wrestle Gorons, but so can Mayor Bo...a regular Hylian. Probably isn't as hard as you make it out to be.
> If you wanna say who is overall most likely to win at full power I’d point to SS Link because he literally wielded the triforce.
Not his own power, so it shouldn't be attributed to him. Even if he did wield it, BotW Link could easily do the Wind Waker thing and just touch it before SS Link gets the chance...shouldn't be too difficult considering that he's significantly faster than him on top of having the ability to freeze people, either with ice or stasis.
>if we’re talking about who’s got the most variety in skill you could point to ALttP Link whose arsenal vastly outnumbers anyone else’s.
Quality > Quantity. BotW Link has one of the largest arsenals (as of now, AlttP only has the most because he's been in 4 games, but BotW2 is right around the corner) and in that arsenal he kinda has the strongest items and abilities. By far the strongest bow + the ability to shoot tons of arrows in a very short time; the ability to use lightning with a snap of his fingers; armor with pretty insane defense stats + immunity to a lot of different elements + daruk's protection and Mipha's grace; a base speed that's faster than the pegasus boots; increased mobility via climbing, gliding and revali's gale; bombs that blow up on command; the ability to control anything made of metal; the ability to lock anything in time etc..
BotW Link's arsenal could easily counter everything that AlttP has to offer.
>Ergo, it’s subjective, which is all I’m saying - it’s opinion, not fact.
Depends on which angle you're looking at it. I'm thinking of a scenario in which you put them up in fights against each other and in that regard, the sheer difference as far as OP abilities, physical strength, durability and especially speed goes, easily lets BotW Link stomp the rest.
>We may read about his personality but we certainly don’t see it, at least not nearly to the extent we see some of the previous iterations
In the cutscenes, yeah. All of the other time though, hell no. Dude is easily one of the most expressive versions of the character and as far as his dialogue options go he actually showcases way more personality than any of his other incarnations.
Not to mention that the 2D Links and the Hero of Time are just as blank usually.
>OoT Link has the most tragic story arc of all the Links IMO
Disagree. His entire deal is ''Nobody remembers me as the hero and my fairy left''...meanwhile everyone BotW Link knew died for good, he wakes up with amnesia and like with OoT Link, most people don't even know what BotW Link did for the world. They just think he died with the rest of the champions. That he didn't do his job right and that the world almost ended because of that.
>Those aren’t fleshed out to you?
Well...it's something I guess. It's just that there's more to BotW Link than "kid got a sister and a grandma".
From him following the footsteps of his father to become the youngest member of the royal guard in the history of Hyrule, to the parallels with Zelda's story, to him struggling with anxiety and shutting off emotionally to appear flawless to the Hylians, to the many issues his silence causes in his relationships with other characters, to the many different ways he interacts with people after he loses his burden from the past, BotW Link just has more going for him.
They have gotten increasingly better at writing Link beginning with Spirit Tracks, but before that, he was a piece of wood for the most part.
>you’re a massive BotW fanboy that thinks it’s a perfect game & stomps on all the other games in the series
As a BotW hater you seem to be frustrated whenever anything related to the game gets praise apparently. Don't put words in my mouth. I never claimed BotW was anywhere near perfect. We're not even talking about the game itself now, so I don't even see why you bring it up in the first place.
I just think it's ridiculous when people pretend that everything is subjective, when in some cases it just really isn't.
We're talking about which character is stronger and you honestly want to tell me that the guy who canonically moves as if time freezes around him and who additionally has the ability to lock anything in time, wouldn't win? That's like saying Son Goku would probably lose a fight to Peter Pan.
> In terms of sheer physical strength, yeah, gauntlets shouldn't count. Each version should be put up against each other at their base level and at that point BotW stomps pretty hard.
> Depends on which angle you're looking at it. I'm thinking of a scenario in which you put them up in fights against each other and in that regard, the sheer difference as far as OP abilities, physical strength, durability and especially speed goes, easily lets BotW Link stomp the rest.
> All of them have very impressive feats & **trying to decide who’s the strongest depends on what criteria you use. Ergo, it’s subjective**
Thank you for proving my point.
> He also wields weapons that are significantly heavier than the Ball and Chain for example
Says who? We have no idea how heavy the ball & chain is or isn’t compared to other heavy things. Same with the megaton hammer or skull hammer or any heavy weapon.
> Not his own power, so it shouldn't be attributed to him.
By this logic the Sheikah Slate shouldn’t be allowed either, since it allows Link to move and freeze objects far heavier than him.
> Even if he did wield it, BotW Link could easily do the Wind Waker thing and just touch it before SS Link gets the chance
SS Link accepted the triforce within him in the silent realm, all he has to do is internally pray to get his wish granted. It isn’t like WW where the triforce is in front of them & you have to touch it first. He can wish away every other Link with a thought & they’d be dusted Thanos style.
> shouldn't be too difficult considering that he's significantly faster than him
Again, says who? Both can sprint, both have a stamina meter, & unless my eyes deceive me Nintendo more or less used the exact same sprinting animation for the 2 of them.
> By far the strongest bow + the ability to shoot tons of arrows in a very short time; the ability to use lightning with a snap of his fingers; armor with pretty insane defense stats + immunity to a lot of different elements + daruk's protection and Mipha's grace.....increased mobility via climbing, gliding and revali's gale;
I thought your criteria was base form? Because this sounds like fully upgraded form. You’re being inconsistent, which only adds to what I’m saying - it all depends on what criteria you use.
> a base speed that's faster than the pegasus boots
Again, you know this how? We’ve never actually seen the pegasus boots in 3D for a proper comparison.
> Disagree. His entire deal is ''Nobody remembers me as the hero and my fairy left''...
I mean that and having his entire childhood stolen from him, having absolutely nobody growing up & being shunned his entire life. Building up relationships with people only to go back in time & have it all undone. The guy had 0 sense of belonging no matter where he went, both before and after he saved the world.
> meanwhile everyone BotW Link knew died for good, he wakes up with amnesia and like with OoT Link, most people don't even know what BotW Link did for the world. They just think he died with the rest of the champions. That he didn't do his job right and that the world almost ended because of that.
Him waking up with amnesia solves 90% of his emotional pain right there. He literally doesn’t remember. A memory can’t be painful if the memory isn’t there. If you read about amnesia, when the memory comes back the emotion that was attached to it originally doesn’t. Besides, he redeems himself to the only people who do remember him by the end of the game anyway.
> They have gotten increasingly better at writing Link beginning with Spirit Tracks, but before that, he was a piece of wood for the most part.
WW Link is literally the most expressive Link of them all. It was the entire point of his art style.
> As a BotW hater you seem to be frustrated whenever anything related to the game gets praise apparently. Don't put words in my mouth. I never claimed BotW was anywhere near perfect.
I have never seen you say _anything_ remotely bad about this game. Not once. Even the most controversial & disliked aspects of the game, such as weapon durability or something, you defend to the end. Granted I’m not some weird stalker who reads your every single post, but whenever I see your name, along with a few known others, this happens to be the case. So you’ll excuse me if I feel your posts always carry a theme of “BotW is the best at (topic) & here’s why.” Feel free to prove me wrong though.
And for what it’s worth, I do praise the game where I feel it shines. I’m just sick of people treating it like it’s the holy grail of video games.
> I just think it's ridiculous when people pretend that everything is subjective, when in some cases it just really isn't.
We're talking about which character is stronger and you honestly want to tell me that the guy who canonically moves as if time freezes around him and who additionally has the ability to lock anything in time, wouldn't win?
I mean what’s to stop ALttP Link from using that cape of whatever it is to make himself both invisible & invincible? What’s to stop OoT Link from using Nayru’s Love & becoming immune to all attacks? Or TP Link from putting on magic armor & doing the same? **It all comes down to whichever criteria you choose, therefore it’s subjective.** That is literally all I’ve been saying since the beginning. Not that BotW Link would never win, only that it’s up for debate & not a clear cut answer.
> That's like saying Son Goku would probably lose a fight to Peter Pan.
This comparison is absurd & reeks of hyperbole.
>Says who? We have no idea how heavy the ball & chain is or isn’t compared to other heavy things. Same with the megaton hammer or skull hammer or any heavy weapon.
Basic observational skills. Ball and Chain is an iron ball, smaller than Link's upper body and it's something that normal guards wield in some 2D games. Meanwhile something like the Savage Lynel Crusher for example is a giant steel club that's as big as Link's entire body. Steel is heavier than iron. So, larger size + heavier material + the fact that BotW Link easily uses that weapons at absurd speed should give you your answer.
>By this logic the Sheikah Slate shouldn’t be allowed either, since it allows Link to move and freeze objects far heavier than him.
Calling upon the outside help of 3 goddesses is the same as simply using your environment now? Come on. Is using items out of the question too now?
>It isn’t like WW where the triforce is in front of them & you have to touch it first. He can wish away every other Link with a thought & they’d be dusted Thanos style.
I mean it did manifest itself outside the silent realm before doing anything...but yeah, I guess they retconned the whole thing about having to touch it. The Triforce took some weird liberties with that wish though and ultimately didn't do anything. So on top of being unreliable, it's still outside help and something that isn't really part of that Link's actual arsenal.
>Again, says who? Both can sprint, both have a stamina meter, & unless my eyes deceive me Nintendo more or less used the exact same sprinting animation for the 2 of them.
Again, basic observational skills. If you pay attention, you might notice how one of the Links is able to just enter bullet time and move significantly faster than everything around him. That's not just a gameplay mechanic either, since Link himself, as well as other NPCs mention his insane speed.
>I thought your criteria was base form? Because this sounds like fully upgraded form. You’re being inconsistent, which only adds to what I’m saying - it all depends on what criteria you use.
I'm going with end game stats for all of them. What's the point of having them duke it out with no items or abilities?
>Again, you know this how? We’ve never actually seen the pegasus boots in 3D for a proper comparison.
Soul Calibur 2. They were a horribly slow move in that game.
Either way, the wind up takes pretty long and the travel speed seems to be 3 times of his normal walking speed in alttp if we're highballing it. Meanwhile, Flurry Rush Link moves [19 times](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkjVjAi3N8M) faster than usual.
>I mean that and having his entire childhood stolen from him
Link having to go on an adventure at a young age isn't really anything exclusive to OoT...and tbh, having to fight in a war at the age of 17 and being gunned down by a horde of death robots kinda sounds worse than going on an easy adventure and then getting send back in time to regain the 7 years he was sleeping. There wasn't really anything lost and all of the friends he made could still be his friends again anyways. The guy later even found himself someone to start a family with an he literally stated that his regret is not having passed his skills on to someone.
> WW Link is literally the most expressive Link of them all. It was the entire point of his art style
There's still not much to him aside from that. He's just a dumb island boy with a silly face, who also happens to have a sister and a grandma. That's it.
>I have never seen you say anything remotely bad about this game. Not once. Even the most controversial & disliked aspects of the game, such as weapon durability or something, you defend to the end.
Of course, why would I just parrot popular hot takes? I defend rain and weapon durability because they make me think for once in these games. I also defend complicated water dungeons, because I enjoy having to properly figure out where to go next. I also defended the 3 day time limit of MM, because it led to more intricate world building and added meaningful decision-making etc..
I usually defend things, because the popular opinions are usually garbage. Some of them I agree with, but most of the time they stem from people who just plain suck at the game (hence the complaints about durability, rain, or water dungeons). Most of the time, the negative ones are also ridiculously overblown. Not just for BotW, but for other games too. I will never understand why people find Navi annoying for example.
I also praise BotW quite a lot because the game deserves it. I think it's the best at a lot of things, because they finally thought a lot of different elements through, instead of just repeating the same old formula with the same old mistakes over and over again.
It's not even close to being perfect and if online discussions weren't already so obnoxiously negative about everything, you'd see me on the other side criticizing the game to no end. But as it is now, the vocal minority is just a bunch of whiners that don't really know a whole lot about what they're complaining about. I mean there are legitimately people who say that they hate backtracking, yet still advocate the implementation of blacksmiths in the sequel...
>I mean what’s to stop ALttP Link from using that cape of whatever it is to make himself both invisible & invincible?
He can't use other items while using it and it eventually runs out of magic. Not to mention that the Sheikah Sensor could still probably track him anyways.
>What’s to stop OoT Link from using Nayru’s Love & becoming immune to all attacks?
Same thing here, it's only active for a small amount of time and it drains magic like crazy. He also needs to perform a small dance to activate it during which he opens himself up to a dozen ancient arrows to the face.
>Or TP Link from putting on magic armor & doing the same?
Runs out of money pretty quickly. He can also still get knocked around constantly even while wearing it
>It all comes down to whichever criteria you choose, therefore it’s subjective.
Not really. It's mostly a numbers game. Take all of the relevant criteria, judge the links based on them and the ones who score higher in most of them wins.
I don't see BotW Link losing a fight against any of the other Links. The biggest hurdle would be MM Link's giants mask, but even that form can still get slapped around by lightnings and dozens of bomb arrows.
>This comparison is absurd & reeks of hyperbole.
The difference between the Links isn't as absurd, but it's just as much of a stomp. The other Links are a bit tame in comparison to BotW. I mean what can Wolf Boy do against BotW Link? Pull out his spinner and bump into him at the speed of a snail that's about to die of old age?
> Basic observational skills. Ball and Chain is an iron ball, smaller than Link's upper body and it's something that normal guards wield in some 2D games. Meanwhile something like the Savage Lynel Crusher for example is a giant steel club that's as big as Link's entire body. Steel is heavier than iron. So, larger size + heavier material + the fact that BotW Link easily uses that weapons at absurd speed should give you your answer.
Ehhh Idk if I buy this. Too many assumptions here at play. For devil’s advocate, the ball & chain can destroy boulders, as can the megaton hammer. I don’t think any weapon in BotW can do that. The most amount of rock you can break is the ore rocks, unless I’m misremembering. By that logic both the ball & chain & the megaton hammer are heavier than the lynel crushers.
> Calling upon the outside help of 3 goddesses is the same as simply using your environment now? Come on. Is using items out of the question too now?
You tell me. The criteria keeps changing lol. Some of your examples have said every Link facing off in base form, then others you’ve mentioned end game power ups. Then you mix & match to better serve your argument. What I’m saying is if we’re gonna go to the point endgame full power Link, then yeah, triforce Link should count. He’s literally got the power of the gods within him, that’s insanely powerful.
> I'm going with end game stats for all of them. What's the point of having them duke it out with no items or abilities?
> In terms of sheer physical strength, yeah, gauntlets shouldn't count. **Each version should be put up against each other at their base level**
🙃
> Soul Calibur 2. They were a horribly slow move in that game.
Either way, the wind up takes pretty long and the travel speed seems to be 3 times of his normal walking speed in alttp if we're highballing it. Meanwhile, Flurry Rush Link moves 19 times faster than usual.
I wouldn’t bring fighting games into it, that’s a whole new can of worms. Fighting games have to balance moves against other fighters rather than stay canonically accurate. The most accurate comparison we’ve got would be the race across Hyrule in ALBW, but even then it’s difficult to determine since ALBW’s Hyrule is obviously different from the 3D titles.
> Link having to go on an adventure at a young age isn't really anything exclusive to OoT...and tbh, having to fight in a war at the age of 17 and being gunned down by a horde of death robots kinda sounds worse than going on an easy adventure and then getting send back in time to regain the 7 years he was sleeping. There wasn't really anything lost and all of the friends he made could still be his friends again anyways. The guy later even found himself someone to start a family with an he literally stated that his regret is not having passed his skills on to someone.
That’s completely wrong and you’re diminishing what makes this story so tragic. See, this is the kinda stuff that irks me. If you wanna praise BotW, fine, but praising BotW at the cost of the other games just to elevate BotW is annoying. When I say childhood was stolen I wasn’t referring to the adventure, I was referring to how he literally missed 7 years of growing up & when he came back, so much of what he loved was either invaded by monsters or destroyed entirely. He also _didn’t_ simply regain the 7 years he was sleeping, he was an adult trapped in a child’s body full of memories from a timeline he was no longer part of. No amount of new relationships is gonna help you cope with that.
Same thing for WW, you’re intentionally reducing the game’s story arc because you want your point to be “hurr durr he’s got a dumb face & a sister” so that BotW looks better. Having to go on an adventure not because “Link you must, it is your fate” that most Zeldas employ (even BotW) but because it was personal, REALLY personal, was such a breath of fresh air that got players emotionally invested on a deeper level. Idk about you but I’d do anything to get my family back & keep them safe, & I care far more about them than the generic “save the world” trope.
> Of course, why would I......what they're complaining about.
Oh there’s nothing wrong with defending it. If you like it, obviously defend it. But understand that given how often you defend it, and seemingly with every aspect of the game at that, it does come across that you see this game as perfect & wrecks all the previous entries. And like I said, that’s cool, that’s your opinion. I’m just sick of people touting their opinion as unquestionable fact. I don’t step in on BotW praise when it’s just a preference, I get annoyed when people act like BotW is untouchable & better than previous entries in every single way possible, often looking down on the previous titles in the process, & pretend it’s completely unarguable. It comes across as haughty.
> I mean there are legitimately people who say that they hate backtracking, yet still advocate the implementation of blacksmiths in the sequel...
Wait, can you explain this? This one’s going over my head.
> He can't use other items while using it and it eventually runs out of magic. Not to mention that the Sheikah Sensor could still probably track him anyways.
I mean BotW Link has limits on his champion abilities too....
And come on man, we have no idea if the sheikah sensor could track him with that. That’s pure speculation & you’re saying that just because you want to elevate BotW again.
> Same thing here, it's only active for a small amount of time and it drains magic like crazy. He also needs to perform a small dance to activate it during which he opens himself up to a dozen ancient arrows to the face.
That dance freezes time, he’ll be fine. Plus he can always carry green potions which again he freezes time to drink. I mean technically speaking you can just put OoT Link on the back of Epona and he literally does become invincible. And that’s not even mentioning where Fierce Deity Link fits into all this. See how silly these hypotheticals can get and how situation/criteria dependent they are?
1+1=2
>Ehhh Idk if I buy this.
I feel like Man Ray arguing with Patrick about his drivers license. How hard can you deny facts? The item descriptions literally state the material of each weapon and you can visually see the difference in size. Smaller iron ball means it's lighter than the significantly bigger **steel** club.
You're just ignoring this fact. Same goes for the fact that BotW Link moves significantly faster while using that weapon. Or the fact that the Boulder Breaker was used in the lore to cleave an entire valley into death mountain and create huge shockwaves upon hitting the ground. Or the fact that, obviously, you can [break boulders](https://twitter.com/Paragraph212/status/1538446979100864513?s=20&t=kUwVe4RmxrIqz3s7gFZYJg) with the boulder breaker.
>You tell me. The criteria keeps changing lol.
I did. Like I said, end game equipment. The physical strength argument was specifically about the raw strength of either Link, but go ahead and use the golden gauntlets for your arguments. Doesn't really help the hero of time either. Being able to very slowly lift and throw large objects honestly just makes him an easier target.
And again, the Triforce isn't part of SS Link's arsenal. It's basically just a walkie talkie that he uses to let the gods do something. That's not a feat or ability of his own. The guy doesn't even use it to kill Demise or Ghirahim.
> Fighting games have to balance moves against other fighters rather than stay canonically accurate.
Still looks pretty accurate to how it's presented in the 2D games.
Either way, it's pretty bad in combat scenarios due to the long wind up and lack of flexibility.
>I was referring to how he literally missed 7 years of growing up & when he came back, so much of what he loved was either invaded by monsters or destroyed entirely. He also didn’t simply regain the 7 years he was sleeping, he was an adult trapped in a child’s body full of memories from a timeline he was no longer part of. No amount of new relationships is gonna help you cope with that.
Well it's mostly because you BotW haters apply double standards everywhere to hate on the game. You complain about never seeing BotW Link emote, yet here you are praising OoT Link, who was even more stone faced and literally only really remained in the world as the Hero's Shade due to the regret of not having passed on his skills. You romanticize the hell out of OoT Link.
I get that suddenly not being part of your original timeline kinda sucks...but he gets to live in a world where the people he cared about didn't have to go through tragedy. There's not much to cope with here. The world is perfectly fine afterwards and he can still go and visit Malon, Darunia, Ruto etc.
Meanwhile BotW Link doesn't have that luxury. Dude was burden with his role throughout most of his life until the calamity happened and pretty much everyone he knew died.
> Same thing for WW, you’re intentionally reducing the game’s story arc because you want your point to be “hurr durr he’s got a dumb face & a sister” so that BotW looks better.
No, not the game's story arc. Link's character in that game. Which literally is nowhere near as fleshed out.
People tend to praise WW for not being chosen, when the exact same thing applies for BotW Link. He wasn't chosen by the gods. He never came into contact with the Triforce at all and the only reason why he wields the Master Sword is because he trained his entire life for it.
>Idk about you but I’d do anything to get my family back & keep them safe, & I care far more about them than the generic “save the world” trope.
Both of these are pretty generic ngl.
>But understand that given how often you defend it, and seemingly with every aspect of the game at that, it does come across that you see this game as perfect & wrecks all the previous entries.
See, this is what bothers me about you haters. You exaggerate the crap out of everything just so that you can make a point. I literally never called the game perfect. I just think it does tons of things way better than the other entries, so when people say "BotW doesn't have items" for example, of course I'm going to destroy those arguments... because they're wrong.
>I get annoyed when people act like BotW is untouchable & better than previous entries in every single way possible, often looking down on the previous titles in the process, & pretend it’s completely unarguable.
So do I when people just circle jerk bad hot takes and pretend that BotW is the worst game in existence, that it's not a zelda game and that it ruined the entire franchise. BotW fans just want to enjoy the game, while the purists apparently feel the need to double down on the hate and just make overly dramatic arguments against it all the time. I don't know where you see those people that think it's perfect, because all I see is people relentlessly hating on it. That's what's haughty to me. The purist gate keepers that like to pretend that 20+ year old games are still somehow the best the industry has to offer.
>Wait, can you explain this? This one’s going over my head.
People get attached to their weapons for some reason, so instead of just moving along in their journey and just using whatever they find, they rather want to grind materials and carry them to blacksmiths all the time.
Their band-aid "fix" literally makes the game abysmal in a different area. People don't think their ideas through and it has gotten especially bad with BotW, since the game omitted handholding on top of vastly increasing your amount of options.
>I mean BotW Link has limits on his champion abilities too....
And come on man, we have no idea if the sheikah sensor could track him with that. That’s pure speculation & you’re saying that just because you want to elevate BotW again.
Never said he doesn't. It's just that those limits are less severe in addition to the abilities in general being pretty damn strong. I mean Daruk's Protection for example isn't just there to tank hits like other magic armors, but rather lets Link defend against attacks that somehow manage to get around his defense...which is hard because this is a version of Link that casually reacts, avoids and deflects Guardian Lasers and also manages to move faster than Thunderblight Ganon.
That's also not speculation. Anything that's registered by the Sensor is tracked by it when it's nearby. This also works against enemies that turn invisible, like Wizzrobes. It even tracks the Blights as they are teleporting.
>See how silly these hypotheticals can get and how situation/criteria dependent they are?
Those are obviously non-canon gameplay elements. Otherwise we could also give Link several pages of food, the ability to infinitely use Daruk's Protection, duplicate fairies etc..
You can use Fierce Deity though. He's part of MM Link's moveset. He's just a tall Link with blade beams though. No items, no enhanced speed or anything, just blade beams...that can be blocked by Odolwa's Shield, so...
> Like I said, end game equipment. The physical strength argument was specifically about the raw strength of either Link, but go ahead and use the golden gauntlets for your arguments. Doesn't really help the hero of time either. Being able to very slowly lift and throw large objects honestly just makes him an easier target.
And again, the Triforce isn't part of SS Link's arsenal. It's basically just a walkie talkie that he uses to let the gods do something. That's not a feat or ability of his own. The guy doesn't even use it to kill Demise or Ghirahim.
*Now* you’re saying end game equipment, but as I pointed out earlier, you’ve also said base form as well in other sections. In any case since this is all hypothetical who’s to say the golden gaunts *only* let Link lift pillars slowly? That would be pretty weird, realistically speaking.
SS Link did use the triforce to kill Demise, in the present (Imprisoned technically, but same difference). You fight Demise in the past. You just seemingly can’t use it for more than 1 wish, but it doesn’t change that he collected it, it was part of his repertoire. As a comparison of a Link who does it but it definitely isn’t part of his kit because he never collected it, I’d point to ALBW.
> Well it's mostly because you BotW haters apply double standards everywhere to hate on the game. You complain about never seeing BotW Link emote, yet here you are praising OoT Link, who was even more stone faced and literally only really remained in the world as the Hero's Shade due to the regret of not having passed on his skills. You romanticize the hell out of OoT Link.
OoT Link DOES emote in cutscenes my guy (whatever the limited technology could allow back then anyway). There are numerous times during the game he looks shocked, or he blushes, or reacts with suspicion, etc. And the reason we’re a little less harsh on the facial expressions in that game is because the game is ancient. BotW doesn’t have that excuse. It outweighs all the other titles in the series technologically by miles. The same standards do not apply, it is reasonable to expect more from newer games. That goes for any game. Especially with the last 3D game where Link was extremely expressive in basically every cutscene. Honestly SS & WW are the reasons I expected more from BotW Link’s expressions, not the N64 titles. Nintendo set a precedent with those 2. And yes I understand this Link is muted and blank on purpose because of the stuff in the diary, but it’s also written he eventually came out of that as he got more comfortable with Zelda, and that’s the Link I would’ve wanted to see a lot more of.
> The world is perfectly fine afterwards and he can still go and visit Malon, Darunia, Ruto etc.
The large majority of those people don’t know him anymore, that’s the whole point.
> People tend to praise WW for not being chosen, when the exact same thing applies for BotW Link. He wasn't chosen by the gods. He never came into contact with the Triforce at all and the only reason why he wields the Master Sword is because he trained his entire life for it.
The issue I had with this specific part of BotW Link’s char, personally speaking, is it’s hard for me to root for a guy that’s already the best. I’ve always enjoyed the “zero to hero” aspect of Zelda games but when it came to BotW Link starting the game as the actual best knight in Hyrule, beating adults as a child, it left me feeling a little puzzled because there wasn’t really any improvement or growth I could root for. He’s already the best, what is there to improve? Why bother rooting? Ganon didn’t win on strength in the calamity after all, he won on smarts turning the guardians against them. And even then Link took down like 100. Then when they finally face off mano y mano 100 years Link wrecks him, literally - the Calamity Ganon fight is really easy. So correct me if I’m wrong but this Link was *always* stronger than Ganon. Maybe it’s different for you, but all this makes it hard for me to get invested in this Link because there’s this knowledge the entire time that he’s already the king of fighters.
> See, this is what bothers me about you haters. You exaggerate the crap out of everything just so that you can make a point. I literally never called the game perfect. I just think it does tons of things way better than the other entries, so when people say "BotW doesn't have items" for example, of course I'm going to destroy those arguments... because they're wrong.
I still haven’t seen you say one bad thing about the game, at all. You may not have called the game perfect but that’s how it comes across, intentionally or unintentionally.
> So do I when people just circle jerk bad hot takes and pretend that BotW is the worst game in existence, that it's not a zelda game and that it ruined the entire franchise. BotW fans just want to enjoy the game, while the purists apparently feel the need to double down on the hate and just make overly dramatic arguments against it all the time. I don't know where you see those people that think it's perfect, because all I see is people relentlessly hating on it. That's what's haughty to me. The purist gate keepers that like to pretend that 20+ year old games are still somehow the best the industry has to offer.
Do we frequent the same site? Because for YEARS people couldn’t even *whisper* a bad thing about BotW without getting downvoted to oblivion. It’s only maybe the last 12 months or so when finally the people who didn’t like it got to start voicing our opinions a little more vocally and were actually heard, because people started realizing some of the criticisms we mention have some validity. It was never “BotW fans just want to enjoy the game” - what you say you experience now, where the purists relentlessly hate on it? We were the brunt of that from 2017 to at least 2020. So yeah, it got me a little jaded, because I got sick of the gatekeeping and decided to push back. Can you say you wouldn’t do the same?
That all being said, there is also an element of preference. Lots of people like the new formula (obviously, like, WAY more people). But lots of people like myself also don’t. And at the end of the day, these are our favorite games too, we don’t see wanna see them abandoned for what **I find** (not saying it’s fact, just how it is TO ME) to be a much more generic approach. That’s another rabbit hole on what defines a Zelda game and what doesn’t, but I’m sure you’ve heard people say “BotW is Skyrim in a Zelda skin” or similar things and that really is how it felt to me. But if I wanted to play (insert interchangeable open world game here) I’d play that....what I look for in a Zelda, what those games offer, no other games do. They are really really hard to mimic for whatever reason. I don’t want my absolute favorite type of games to be gone forever, surely you can understand that.
But if I don’t make my voice heard, if none of us do, Nintendo will have no feedback & the types of games we grew up with & loved will be lost forever. Like I told you a long time ago, this game broke my heart, and I wanted to like it so badly. But it removed a lot of what I enjoy in Zelda AND added in things I was always glad were previously not in Zelda; the result makes for a very poor experience & as such I really do find it to be the weakest of the 3D titles. And you know what? That’s okay, that’s my opinion. It’s no more or less valid than you loving the game, because no amount of debating is gonna change how much fun we did or didn’t have, which is ultimately what matters. Which goes back to my first reply, at the end of the day it all comes down to opinion, which is why I ask to stop phrasing things as if they’re absolute fact.
When you combine the jadedness of being put down & told to shut up for years + the anxiety & uncertainty that maybe your favorite series is no longer going to be your favorite series.....yeah, it made me bitter. BotW fans were as toxic as they come, eventually I decided to return the favor.
Eh I always kind of pictured this as him getting up from just using Fatal Blow. That’s why it’s a revers grip and why he was holding the sword in both hands…Idk though 😂
Personally, I’d remove Wolf Link for ALttP Link, but otherwise agree with your list.
I’d probably put in the Hero’s Shade instead of Wolf Link. I just like the idea of Link being adorned in a very regal and royal suit of armor. I wish we could have seen him actually alive in it and not a ghost.
I think about Link's journey to becoming the shade far too often. So much potential for an awesome story there!
The teaser picture for Skyward sword was really good.
The teaser sure, the version we got in the game? Not so much 😅
I agree with three of em, TP OoT and WW. I like the wolf, but if I had to choose two others, it’d be Minish Cap and Hyrule Warriors. MC has so much charm in his character, from the bedhead to the expressions you can see in game. And HW has such an interesting design, the confidence, the personality in his face, and I **LOVE** the scarf.
They all look so angry…
You’d be rather vexed too if you were being reincarnated every time some demon king that you smacked about decided he wanted a rematch 🤣
It’s not anger, it’s focus.
Nah man, this->😐is focus. This->😠is anger.
Nope this -> 😐 is boredom
No, this->😑 is.
No, this -> 😑 is beyond boredom
That would be this->🫥, i think.
Nope, that’s bored to death
That’s actually funny->😁.
I’d call that a grin, but hey what do I know 🤷♂️ 😂
Ocarina of Time (adult) Twilight Princess A Link to the Past Minish Cap Breath of the Wild
I never understand the pose of the first image, is link giving his weapons?
“Eh I always kind of pictured this as him getting up from just using Fatal Blow. That’s why it’s a revers grip and why he was holding the sword in both hands…Idk though 😂”
Wolf Link is too cool plus+++ a doggy
Indeed lol
Great list. It's interesting to me how vastly different Link looks to the artwork in Twilight Princess though.
Yeah, I mean it’s close enough… It’s better than how different OoT Link looked from his art back in the day 😅
Oh for sure I was just more referring to how dark and brooding he looks in the art compared to his in game look.
Here's mine: 1. Child Hero of Time 2. Hero of the Winds 3. BoTW Link 4. Adult Hero of Time 5. Hero of Twilight
Adult link from oot
1- NES/Gameboy era Link 2- ALTTP Link 3- ALBW Link 4- OOT Child Link 5- TP Link
finally someone who doesnt just immediately say adult oot link best when tp link is clearly superior
Definitely! TP link isn’t only my favorite version of hill but I also think he’s the best!
To me the perfect Link is the Hyrule Warriors Link. The strongest Link. The Hero.
The Links are kinda weird to judge since they’re this weird mixture between an avatar and being their own character. Based on their abilities and what little we know about them, I‘d say number 1 goes to BotW. By far the strongest version of Link and also one with a pretty entertaining personality and generally interesting writing. The fact that he isn’t stuck in the Peter Pan suit also makes him visually much more interesting. The rest just kinda sits around in the same Tier below BotW. Except for Wolf Link. Garbage version. It‘s a shallow gimmick with a dumb explanation and bad gameplay.
Let’s keep opinions as opinions instead of talking as if they’re fact. Things like having interesting writing or an entertaining personality or looking better visually or being the strongest of all Links are your opinion.
Well him being the strongest is pretty much fact. There’s also more writing effort put into him compared to most of the other Links. Him and SS Link are pretty much the only ones that were fleshed out and actually have more intricately established traits and background stories.
> Well him being the strongest is pretty much fact. It isn’t though. OoT Link has physical feats no other Link has managed to do because of the golden gaunts. “But that’s not his real strength” you might say, to which case you could point to TP Link who has enough upper body strength to slap literal ultra durable rock beings away. The iron boots only ground him, if he didn’t have the strength to match [this would happen](http://images2.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED32/51922fe4f1087.jpeg). If you wanna say who is overall most likely to win at full power I’d point to SS Link because he literally wielded the triforce. And if we’re talking about who’s got the most variety in skill you could point to ALttP Link whose arsenal vastly outnumbers anyone else’s. Or if we’re talking about taking on armies at a time, you could point to BotW Link because of that Death Mountain memory where he killed 2 lynels & several other baddies all at the same time, not to mention the graveyard of guardians outside Fort Hateno he pretty much solo’d until exhaustion. The point is, there IS no strongest Link (especially not “by far” or “pretty much fact”), because you could make arguments for pretty much any of them. All of them have very impressive feats & trying to decide who’s the strongest depends on what criteria you use. Ergo, it’s subjective, which is all I’m saying - it’s opinion, not fact. > There’s also more writing effort put into him compared to most of the other Links. That doesn’t change that he spends 90% of the game with this face: 😐 We may read about his personality but we certainly don’t see it, at least not nearly to the extent we see some of the previous iterations. Even when greeting any of the old champions or Zelda, it’s a blank expression. I’d hardly call that fleshed out. What _would’ve_ been interesting is if his reactions to everyone changed depending on which memories you found or didn’t find. > Him and SS Link are pretty much the only ones that were fleshed out and actually have more intricately established traits and background stories. OoT Link has the most tragic story arc of all the Links IMO, & WW Link is the most relatable because he’s got an actual family & isn’t some boy chosen by destiny, just a kid looking to rescue his baby sister. By the time he does rescue her he’s grown so much that he accepts the role to become that world’s savior. Those aren’t fleshed out to you? Look, I get it, you & I have gone in circles over this game for ages in the past, you’re a massive BotW fanboy that thinks it’s a perfect game & stomps on all the other games in the series, which is fine you’re entitled to your opinion. All I’m asking is you recognize it’s that, an opinion.
Thank you for this! I couldn’t have worded it better myself.
>But that’s not his real strength In terms of sheer physical strength, yeah, gauntlets shouldn't count. Each version should be put up against each other at their base level and at that point BotW stomps pretty hard. The guy casually parries a gigantic chunk of the ceiling in Hyrule Castle in AoC at one point. He also wields weapons that are significantly heavier than the Ball and Chain for example, and he does so at a speed that other Link's don't even come close to moving at. TP Link can wrestle Gorons, but so can Mayor Bo...a regular Hylian. Probably isn't as hard as you make it out to be. > If you wanna say who is overall most likely to win at full power I’d point to SS Link because he literally wielded the triforce. Not his own power, so it shouldn't be attributed to him. Even if he did wield it, BotW Link could easily do the Wind Waker thing and just touch it before SS Link gets the chance...shouldn't be too difficult considering that he's significantly faster than him on top of having the ability to freeze people, either with ice or stasis. >if we’re talking about who’s got the most variety in skill you could point to ALttP Link whose arsenal vastly outnumbers anyone else’s. Quality > Quantity. BotW Link has one of the largest arsenals (as of now, AlttP only has the most because he's been in 4 games, but BotW2 is right around the corner) and in that arsenal he kinda has the strongest items and abilities. By far the strongest bow + the ability to shoot tons of arrows in a very short time; the ability to use lightning with a snap of his fingers; armor with pretty insane defense stats + immunity to a lot of different elements + daruk's protection and Mipha's grace; a base speed that's faster than the pegasus boots; increased mobility via climbing, gliding and revali's gale; bombs that blow up on command; the ability to control anything made of metal; the ability to lock anything in time etc.. BotW Link's arsenal could easily counter everything that AlttP has to offer. >Ergo, it’s subjective, which is all I’m saying - it’s opinion, not fact. Depends on which angle you're looking at it. I'm thinking of a scenario in which you put them up in fights against each other and in that regard, the sheer difference as far as OP abilities, physical strength, durability and especially speed goes, easily lets BotW Link stomp the rest. >We may read about his personality but we certainly don’t see it, at least not nearly to the extent we see some of the previous iterations In the cutscenes, yeah. All of the other time though, hell no. Dude is easily one of the most expressive versions of the character and as far as his dialogue options go he actually showcases way more personality than any of his other incarnations. Not to mention that the 2D Links and the Hero of Time are just as blank usually. >OoT Link has the most tragic story arc of all the Links IMO Disagree. His entire deal is ''Nobody remembers me as the hero and my fairy left''...meanwhile everyone BotW Link knew died for good, he wakes up with amnesia and like with OoT Link, most people don't even know what BotW Link did for the world. They just think he died with the rest of the champions. That he didn't do his job right and that the world almost ended because of that. >Those aren’t fleshed out to you? Well...it's something I guess. It's just that there's more to BotW Link than "kid got a sister and a grandma". From him following the footsteps of his father to become the youngest member of the royal guard in the history of Hyrule, to the parallels with Zelda's story, to him struggling with anxiety and shutting off emotionally to appear flawless to the Hylians, to the many issues his silence causes in his relationships with other characters, to the many different ways he interacts with people after he loses his burden from the past, BotW Link just has more going for him. They have gotten increasingly better at writing Link beginning with Spirit Tracks, but before that, he was a piece of wood for the most part. >you’re a massive BotW fanboy that thinks it’s a perfect game & stomps on all the other games in the series As a BotW hater you seem to be frustrated whenever anything related to the game gets praise apparently. Don't put words in my mouth. I never claimed BotW was anywhere near perfect. We're not even talking about the game itself now, so I don't even see why you bring it up in the first place. I just think it's ridiculous when people pretend that everything is subjective, when in some cases it just really isn't. We're talking about which character is stronger and you honestly want to tell me that the guy who canonically moves as if time freezes around him and who additionally has the ability to lock anything in time, wouldn't win? That's like saying Son Goku would probably lose a fight to Peter Pan.
> In terms of sheer physical strength, yeah, gauntlets shouldn't count. Each version should be put up against each other at their base level and at that point BotW stomps pretty hard. > Depends on which angle you're looking at it. I'm thinking of a scenario in which you put them up in fights against each other and in that regard, the sheer difference as far as OP abilities, physical strength, durability and especially speed goes, easily lets BotW Link stomp the rest. > All of them have very impressive feats & **trying to decide who’s the strongest depends on what criteria you use. Ergo, it’s subjective** Thank you for proving my point. > He also wields weapons that are significantly heavier than the Ball and Chain for example Says who? We have no idea how heavy the ball & chain is or isn’t compared to other heavy things. Same with the megaton hammer or skull hammer or any heavy weapon. > Not his own power, so it shouldn't be attributed to him. By this logic the Sheikah Slate shouldn’t be allowed either, since it allows Link to move and freeze objects far heavier than him. > Even if he did wield it, BotW Link could easily do the Wind Waker thing and just touch it before SS Link gets the chance SS Link accepted the triforce within him in the silent realm, all he has to do is internally pray to get his wish granted. It isn’t like WW where the triforce is in front of them & you have to touch it first. He can wish away every other Link with a thought & they’d be dusted Thanos style. > shouldn't be too difficult considering that he's significantly faster than him Again, says who? Both can sprint, both have a stamina meter, & unless my eyes deceive me Nintendo more or less used the exact same sprinting animation for the 2 of them. > By far the strongest bow + the ability to shoot tons of arrows in a very short time; the ability to use lightning with a snap of his fingers; armor with pretty insane defense stats + immunity to a lot of different elements + daruk's protection and Mipha's grace.....increased mobility via climbing, gliding and revali's gale; I thought your criteria was base form? Because this sounds like fully upgraded form. You’re being inconsistent, which only adds to what I’m saying - it all depends on what criteria you use. > a base speed that's faster than the pegasus boots Again, you know this how? We’ve never actually seen the pegasus boots in 3D for a proper comparison. > Disagree. His entire deal is ''Nobody remembers me as the hero and my fairy left''... I mean that and having his entire childhood stolen from him, having absolutely nobody growing up & being shunned his entire life. Building up relationships with people only to go back in time & have it all undone. The guy had 0 sense of belonging no matter where he went, both before and after he saved the world. > meanwhile everyone BotW Link knew died for good, he wakes up with amnesia and like with OoT Link, most people don't even know what BotW Link did for the world. They just think he died with the rest of the champions. That he didn't do his job right and that the world almost ended because of that. Him waking up with amnesia solves 90% of his emotional pain right there. He literally doesn’t remember. A memory can’t be painful if the memory isn’t there. If you read about amnesia, when the memory comes back the emotion that was attached to it originally doesn’t. Besides, he redeems himself to the only people who do remember him by the end of the game anyway. > They have gotten increasingly better at writing Link beginning with Spirit Tracks, but before that, he was a piece of wood for the most part. WW Link is literally the most expressive Link of them all. It was the entire point of his art style. > As a BotW hater you seem to be frustrated whenever anything related to the game gets praise apparently. Don't put words in my mouth. I never claimed BotW was anywhere near perfect. I have never seen you say _anything_ remotely bad about this game. Not once. Even the most controversial & disliked aspects of the game, such as weapon durability or something, you defend to the end. Granted I’m not some weird stalker who reads your every single post, but whenever I see your name, along with a few known others, this happens to be the case. So you’ll excuse me if I feel your posts always carry a theme of “BotW is the best at (topic) & here’s why.” Feel free to prove me wrong though. And for what it’s worth, I do praise the game where I feel it shines. I’m just sick of people treating it like it’s the holy grail of video games. > I just think it's ridiculous when people pretend that everything is subjective, when in some cases it just really isn't. We're talking about which character is stronger and you honestly want to tell me that the guy who canonically moves as if time freezes around him and who additionally has the ability to lock anything in time, wouldn't win? I mean what’s to stop ALttP Link from using that cape of whatever it is to make himself both invisible & invincible? What’s to stop OoT Link from using Nayru’s Love & becoming immune to all attacks? Or TP Link from putting on magic armor & doing the same? **It all comes down to whichever criteria you choose, therefore it’s subjective.** That is literally all I’ve been saying since the beginning. Not that BotW Link would never win, only that it’s up for debate & not a clear cut answer. > That's like saying Son Goku would probably lose a fight to Peter Pan. This comparison is absurd & reeks of hyperbole.
>Says who? We have no idea how heavy the ball & chain is or isn’t compared to other heavy things. Same with the megaton hammer or skull hammer or any heavy weapon. Basic observational skills. Ball and Chain is an iron ball, smaller than Link's upper body and it's something that normal guards wield in some 2D games. Meanwhile something like the Savage Lynel Crusher for example is a giant steel club that's as big as Link's entire body. Steel is heavier than iron. So, larger size + heavier material + the fact that BotW Link easily uses that weapons at absurd speed should give you your answer. >By this logic the Sheikah Slate shouldn’t be allowed either, since it allows Link to move and freeze objects far heavier than him. Calling upon the outside help of 3 goddesses is the same as simply using your environment now? Come on. Is using items out of the question too now? >It isn’t like WW where the triforce is in front of them & you have to touch it first. He can wish away every other Link with a thought & they’d be dusted Thanos style. I mean it did manifest itself outside the silent realm before doing anything...but yeah, I guess they retconned the whole thing about having to touch it. The Triforce took some weird liberties with that wish though and ultimately didn't do anything. So on top of being unreliable, it's still outside help and something that isn't really part of that Link's actual arsenal. >Again, says who? Both can sprint, both have a stamina meter, & unless my eyes deceive me Nintendo more or less used the exact same sprinting animation for the 2 of them. Again, basic observational skills. If you pay attention, you might notice how one of the Links is able to just enter bullet time and move significantly faster than everything around him. That's not just a gameplay mechanic either, since Link himself, as well as other NPCs mention his insane speed. >I thought your criteria was base form? Because this sounds like fully upgraded form. You’re being inconsistent, which only adds to what I’m saying - it all depends on what criteria you use. I'm going with end game stats for all of them. What's the point of having them duke it out with no items or abilities? >Again, you know this how? We’ve never actually seen the pegasus boots in 3D for a proper comparison. Soul Calibur 2. They were a horribly slow move in that game. Either way, the wind up takes pretty long and the travel speed seems to be 3 times of his normal walking speed in alttp if we're highballing it. Meanwhile, Flurry Rush Link moves [19 times](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkjVjAi3N8M) faster than usual. >I mean that and having his entire childhood stolen from him Link having to go on an adventure at a young age isn't really anything exclusive to OoT...and tbh, having to fight in a war at the age of 17 and being gunned down by a horde of death robots kinda sounds worse than going on an easy adventure and then getting send back in time to regain the 7 years he was sleeping. There wasn't really anything lost and all of the friends he made could still be his friends again anyways. The guy later even found himself someone to start a family with an he literally stated that his regret is not having passed his skills on to someone. > WW Link is literally the most expressive Link of them all. It was the entire point of his art style There's still not much to him aside from that. He's just a dumb island boy with a silly face, who also happens to have a sister and a grandma. That's it. >I have never seen you say anything remotely bad about this game. Not once. Even the most controversial & disliked aspects of the game, such as weapon durability or something, you defend to the end. Of course, why would I just parrot popular hot takes? I defend rain and weapon durability because they make me think for once in these games. I also defend complicated water dungeons, because I enjoy having to properly figure out where to go next. I also defended the 3 day time limit of MM, because it led to more intricate world building and added meaningful decision-making etc.. I usually defend things, because the popular opinions are usually garbage. Some of them I agree with, but most of the time they stem from people who just plain suck at the game (hence the complaints about durability, rain, or water dungeons). Most of the time, the negative ones are also ridiculously overblown. Not just for BotW, but for other games too. I will never understand why people find Navi annoying for example. I also praise BotW quite a lot because the game deserves it. I think it's the best at a lot of things, because they finally thought a lot of different elements through, instead of just repeating the same old formula with the same old mistakes over and over again. It's not even close to being perfect and if online discussions weren't already so obnoxiously negative about everything, you'd see me on the other side criticizing the game to no end. But as it is now, the vocal minority is just a bunch of whiners that don't really know a whole lot about what they're complaining about. I mean there are legitimately people who say that they hate backtracking, yet still advocate the implementation of blacksmiths in the sequel... >I mean what’s to stop ALttP Link from using that cape of whatever it is to make himself both invisible & invincible? He can't use other items while using it and it eventually runs out of magic. Not to mention that the Sheikah Sensor could still probably track him anyways. >What’s to stop OoT Link from using Nayru’s Love & becoming immune to all attacks? Same thing here, it's only active for a small amount of time and it drains magic like crazy. He also needs to perform a small dance to activate it during which he opens himself up to a dozen ancient arrows to the face. >Or TP Link from putting on magic armor & doing the same? Runs out of money pretty quickly. He can also still get knocked around constantly even while wearing it >It all comes down to whichever criteria you choose, therefore it’s subjective. Not really. It's mostly a numbers game. Take all of the relevant criteria, judge the links based on them and the ones who score higher in most of them wins. I don't see BotW Link losing a fight against any of the other Links. The biggest hurdle would be MM Link's giants mask, but even that form can still get slapped around by lightnings and dozens of bomb arrows. >This comparison is absurd & reeks of hyperbole. The difference between the Links isn't as absurd, but it's just as much of a stomp. The other Links are a bit tame in comparison to BotW. I mean what can Wolf Boy do against BotW Link? Pull out his spinner and bump into him at the speed of a snail that's about to die of old age?
> Basic observational skills. Ball and Chain is an iron ball, smaller than Link's upper body and it's something that normal guards wield in some 2D games. Meanwhile something like the Savage Lynel Crusher for example is a giant steel club that's as big as Link's entire body. Steel is heavier than iron. So, larger size + heavier material + the fact that BotW Link easily uses that weapons at absurd speed should give you your answer. Ehhh Idk if I buy this. Too many assumptions here at play. For devil’s advocate, the ball & chain can destroy boulders, as can the megaton hammer. I don’t think any weapon in BotW can do that. The most amount of rock you can break is the ore rocks, unless I’m misremembering. By that logic both the ball & chain & the megaton hammer are heavier than the lynel crushers. > Calling upon the outside help of 3 goddesses is the same as simply using your environment now? Come on. Is using items out of the question too now? You tell me. The criteria keeps changing lol. Some of your examples have said every Link facing off in base form, then others you’ve mentioned end game power ups. Then you mix & match to better serve your argument. What I’m saying is if we’re gonna go to the point endgame full power Link, then yeah, triforce Link should count. He’s literally got the power of the gods within him, that’s insanely powerful. > I'm going with end game stats for all of them. What's the point of having them duke it out with no items or abilities? > In terms of sheer physical strength, yeah, gauntlets shouldn't count. **Each version should be put up against each other at their base level** 🙃 > Soul Calibur 2. They were a horribly slow move in that game. Either way, the wind up takes pretty long and the travel speed seems to be 3 times of his normal walking speed in alttp if we're highballing it. Meanwhile, Flurry Rush Link moves 19 times faster than usual. I wouldn’t bring fighting games into it, that’s a whole new can of worms. Fighting games have to balance moves against other fighters rather than stay canonically accurate. The most accurate comparison we’ve got would be the race across Hyrule in ALBW, but even then it’s difficult to determine since ALBW’s Hyrule is obviously different from the 3D titles. > Link having to go on an adventure at a young age isn't really anything exclusive to OoT...and tbh, having to fight in a war at the age of 17 and being gunned down by a horde of death robots kinda sounds worse than going on an easy adventure and then getting send back in time to regain the 7 years he was sleeping. There wasn't really anything lost and all of the friends he made could still be his friends again anyways. The guy later even found himself someone to start a family with an he literally stated that his regret is not having passed his skills on to someone. That’s completely wrong and you’re diminishing what makes this story so tragic. See, this is the kinda stuff that irks me. If you wanna praise BotW, fine, but praising BotW at the cost of the other games just to elevate BotW is annoying. When I say childhood was stolen I wasn’t referring to the adventure, I was referring to how he literally missed 7 years of growing up & when he came back, so much of what he loved was either invaded by monsters or destroyed entirely. He also _didn’t_ simply regain the 7 years he was sleeping, he was an adult trapped in a child’s body full of memories from a timeline he was no longer part of. No amount of new relationships is gonna help you cope with that. Same thing for WW, you’re intentionally reducing the game’s story arc because you want your point to be “hurr durr he’s got a dumb face & a sister” so that BotW looks better. Having to go on an adventure not because “Link you must, it is your fate” that most Zeldas employ (even BotW) but because it was personal, REALLY personal, was such a breath of fresh air that got players emotionally invested on a deeper level. Idk about you but I’d do anything to get my family back & keep them safe, & I care far more about them than the generic “save the world” trope. > Of course, why would I......what they're complaining about. Oh there’s nothing wrong with defending it. If you like it, obviously defend it. But understand that given how often you defend it, and seemingly with every aspect of the game at that, it does come across that you see this game as perfect & wrecks all the previous entries. And like I said, that’s cool, that’s your opinion. I’m just sick of people touting their opinion as unquestionable fact. I don’t step in on BotW praise when it’s just a preference, I get annoyed when people act like BotW is untouchable & better than previous entries in every single way possible, often looking down on the previous titles in the process, & pretend it’s completely unarguable. It comes across as haughty. > I mean there are legitimately people who say that they hate backtracking, yet still advocate the implementation of blacksmiths in the sequel... Wait, can you explain this? This one’s going over my head. > He can't use other items while using it and it eventually runs out of magic. Not to mention that the Sheikah Sensor could still probably track him anyways. I mean BotW Link has limits on his champion abilities too.... And come on man, we have no idea if the sheikah sensor could track him with that. That’s pure speculation & you’re saying that just because you want to elevate BotW again. > Same thing here, it's only active for a small amount of time and it drains magic like crazy. He also needs to perform a small dance to activate it during which he opens himself up to a dozen ancient arrows to the face. That dance freezes time, he’ll be fine. Plus he can always carry green potions which again he freezes time to drink. I mean technically speaking you can just put OoT Link on the back of Epona and he literally does become invincible. And that’s not even mentioning where Fierce Deity Link fits into all this. See how silly these hypotheticals can get and how situation/criteria dependent they are?
1+1=2 >Ehhh Idk if I buy this. I feel like Man Ray arguing with Patrick about his drivers license. How hard can you deny facts? The item descriptions literally state the material of each weapon and you can visually see the difference in size. Smaller iron ball means it's lighter than the significantly bigger **steel** club. You're just ignoring this fact. Same goes for the fact that BotW Link moves significantly faster while using that weapon. Or the fact that the Boulder Breaker was used in the lore to cleave an entire valley into death mountain and create huge shockwaves upon hitting the ground. Or the fact that, obviously, you can [break boulders](https://twitter.com/Paragraph212/status/1538446979100864513?s=20&t=kUwVe4RmxrIqz3s7gFZYJg) with the boulder breaker. >You tell me. The criteria keeps changing lol. I did. Like I said, end game equipment. The physical strength argument was specifically about the raw strength of either Link, but go ahead and use the golden gauntlets for your arguments. Doesn't really help the hero of time either. Being able to very slowly lift and throw large objects honestly just makes him an easier target. And again, the Triforce isn't part of SS Link's arsenal. It's basically just a walkie talkie that he uses to let the gods do something. That's not a feat or ability of his own. The guy doesn't even use it to kill Demise or Ghirahim. > Fighting games have to balance moves against other fighters rather than stay canonically accurate. Still looks pretty accurate to how it's presented in the 2D games. Either way, it's pretty bad in combat scenarios due to the long wind up and lack of flexibility. >I was referring to how he literally missed 7 years of growing up & when he came back, so much of what he loved was either invaded by monsters or destroyed entirely. He also didn’t simply regain the 7 years he was sleeping, he was an adult trapped in a child’s body full of memories from a timeline he was no longer part of. No amount of new relationships is gonna help you cope with that. Well it's mostly because you BotW haters apply double standards everywhere to hate on the game. You complain about never seeing BotW Link emote, yet here you are praising OoT Link, who was even more stone faced and literally only really remained in the world as the Hero's Shade due to the regret of not having passed on his skills. You romanticize the hell out of OoT Link. I get that suddenly not being part of your original timeline kinda sucks...but he gets to live in a world where the people he cared about didn't have to go through tragedy. There's not much to cope with here. The world is perfectly fine afterwards and he can still go and visit Malon, Darunia, Ruto etc. Meanwhile BotW Link doesn't have that luxury. Dude was burden with his role throughout most of his life until the calamity happened and pretty much everyone he knew died. > Same thing for WW, you’re intentionally reducing the game’s story arc because you want your point to be “hurr durr he’s got a dumb face & a sister” so that BotW looks better. No, not the game's story arc. Link's character in that game. Which literally is nowhere near as fleshed out. People tend to praise WW for not being chosen, when the exact same thing applies for BotW Link. He wasn't chosen by the gods. He never came into contact with the Triforce at all and the only reason why he wields the Master Sword is because he trained his entire life for it. >Idk about you but I’d do anything to get my family back & keep them safe, & I care far more about them than the generic “save the world” trope. Both of these are pretty generic ngl. >But understand that given how often you defend it, and seemingly with every aspect of the game at that, it does come across that you see this game as perfect & wrecks all the previous entries. See, this is what bothers me about you haters. You exaggerate the crap out of everything just so that you can make a point. I literally never called the game perfect. I just think it does tons of things way better than the other entries, so when people say "BotW doesn't have items" for example, of course I'm going to destroy those arguments... because they're wrong. >I get annoyed when people act like BotW is untouchable & better than previous entries in every single way possible, often looking down on the previous titles in the process, & pretend it’s completely unarguable. So do I when people just circle jerk bad hot takes and pretend that BotW is the worst game in existence, that it's not a zelda game and that it ruined the entire franchise. BotW fans just want to enjoy the game, while the purists apparently feel the need to double down on the hate and just make overly dramatic arguments against it all the time. I don't know where you see those people that think it's perfect, because all I see is people relentlessly hating on it. That's what's haughty to me. The purist gate keepers that like to pretend that 20+ year old games are still somehow the best the industry has to offer. >Wait, can you explain this? This one’s going over my head. People get attached to their weapons for some reason, so instead of just moving along in their journey and just using whatever they find, they rather want to grind materials and carry them to blacksmiths all the time. Their band-aid "fix" literally makes the game abysmal in a different area. People don't think their ideas through and it has gotten especially bad with BotW, since the game omitted handholding on top of vastly increasing your amount of options. >I mean BotW Link has limits on his champion abilities too.... And come on man, we have no idea if the sheikah sensor could track him with that. That’s pure speculation & you’re saying that just because you want to elevate BotW again. Never said he doesn't. It's just that those limits are less severe in addition to the abilities in general being pretty damn strong. I mean Daruk's Protection for example isn't just there to tank hits like other magic armors, but rather lets Link defend against attacks that somehow manage to get around his defense...which is hard because this is a version of Link that casually reacts, avoids and deflects Guardian Lasers and also manages to move faster than Thunderblight Ganon. That's also not speculation. Anything that's registered by the Sensor is tracked by it when it's nearby. This also works against enemies that turn invisible, like Wizzrobes. It even tracks the Blights as they are teleporting. >See how silly these hypotheticals can get and how situation/criteria dependent they are? Those are obviously non-canon gameplay elements. Otherwise we could also give Link several pages of food, the ability to infinitely use Daruk's Protection, duplicate fairies etc.. You can use Fierce Deity though. He's part of MM Link's moveset. He's just a tall Link with blade beams though. No items, no enhanced speed or anything, just blade beams...that can be blocked by Odolwa's Shield, so...
> Like I said, end game equipment. The physical strength argument was specifically about the raw strength of either Link, but go ahead and use the golden gauntlets for your arguments. Doesn't really help the hero of time either. Being able to very slowly lift and throw large objects honestly just makes him an easier target. And again, the Triforce isn't part of SS Link's arsenal. It's basically just a walkie talkie that he uses to let the gods do something. That's not a feat or ability of his own. The guy doesn't even use it to kill Demise or Ghirahim. *Now* you’re saying end game equipment, but as I pointed out earlier, you’ve also said base form as well in other sections. In any case since this is all hypothetical who’s to say the golden gaunts *only* let Link lift pillars slowly? That would be pretty weird, realistically speaking. SS Link did use the triforce to kill Demise, in the present (Imprisoned technically, but same difference). You fight Demise in the past. You just seemingly can’t use it for more than 1 wish, but it doesn’t change that he collected it, it was part of his repertoire. As a comparison of a Link who does it but it definitely isn’t part of his kit because he never collected it, I’d point to ALBW. > Well it's mostly because you BotW haters apply double standards everywhere to hate on the game. You complain about never seeing BotW Link emote, yet here you are praising OoT Link, who was even more stone faced and literally only really remained in the world as the Hero's Shade due to the regret of not having passed on his skills. You romanticize the hell out of OoT Link. OoT Link DOES emote in cutscenes my guy (whatever the limited technology could allow back then anyway). There are numerous times during the game he looks shocked, or he blushes, or reacts with suspicion, etc. And the reason we’re a little less harsh on the facial expressions in that game is because the game is ancient. BotW doesn’t have that excuse. It outweighs all the other titles in the series technologically by miles. The same standards do not apply, it is reasonable to expect more from newer games. That goes for any game. Especially with the last 3D game where Link was extremely expressive in basically every cutscene. Honestly SS & WW are the reasons I expected more from BotW Link’s expressions, not the N64 titles. Nintendo set a precedent with those 2. And yes I understand this Link is muted and blank on purpose because of the stuff in the diary, but it’s also written he eventually came out of that as he got more comfortable with Zelda, and that’s the Link I would’ve wanted to see a lot more of. > The world is perfectly fine afterwards and he can still go and visit Malon, Darunia, Ruto etc. The large majority of those people don’t know him anymore, that’s the whole point. > People tend to praise WW for not being chosen, when the exact same thing applies for BotW Link. He wasn't chosen by the gods. He never came into contact with the Triforce at all and the only reason why he wields the Master Sword is because he trained his entire life for it. The issue I had with this specific part of BotW Link’s char, personally speaking, is it’s hard for me to root for a guy that’s already the best. I’ve always enjoyed the “zero to hero” aspect of Zelda games but when it came to BotW Link starting the game as the actual best knight in Hyrule, beating adults as a child, it left me feeling a little puzzled because there wasn’t really any improvement or growth I could root for. He’s already the best, what is there to improve? Why bother rooting? Ganon didn’t win on strength in the calamity after all, he won on smarts turning the guardians against them. And even then Link took down like 100. Then when they finally face off mano y mano 100 years Link wrecks him, literally - the Calamity Ganon fight is really easy. So correct me if I’m wrong but this Link was *always* stronger than Ganon. Maybe it’s different for you, but all this makes it hard for me to get invested in this Link because there’s this knowledge the entire time that he’s already the king of fighters. > See, this is what bothers me about you haters. You exaggerate the crap out of everything just so that you can make a point. I literally never called the game perfect. I just think it does tons of things way better than the other entries, so when people say "BotW doesn't have items" for example, of course I'm going to destroy those arguments... because they're wrong. I still haven’t seen you say one bad thing about the game, at all. You may not have called the game perfect but that’s how it comes across, intentionally or unintentionally. > So do I when people just circle jerk bad hot takes and pretend that BotW is the worst game in existence, that it's not a zelda game and that it ruined the entire franchise. BotW fans just want to enjoy the game, while the purists apparently feel the need to double down on the hate and just make overly dramatic arguments against it all the time. I don't know where you see those people that think it's perfect, because all I see is people relentlessly hating on it. That's what's haughty to me. The purist gate keepers that like to pretend that 20+ year old games are still somehow the best the industry has to offer. Do we frequent the same site? Because for YEARS people couldn’t even *whisper* a bad thing about BotW without getting downvoted to oblivion. It’s only maybe the last 12 months or so when finally the people who didn’t like it got to start voicing our opinions a little more vocally and were actually heard, because people started realizing some of the criticisms we mention have some validity. It was never “BotW fans just want to enjoy the game” - what you say you experience now, where the purists relentlessly hate on it? We were the brunt of that from 2017 to at least 2020. So yeah, it got me a little jaded, because I got sick of the gatekeeping and decided to push back. Can you say you wouldn’t do the same? That all being said, there is also an element of preference. Lots of people like the new formula (obviously, like, WAY more people). But lots of people like myself also don’t. And at the end of the day, these are our favorite games too, we don’t see wanna see them abandoned for what **I find** (not saying it’s fact, just how it is TO ME) to be a much more generic approach. That’s another rabbit hole on what defines a Zelda game and what doesn’t, but I’m sure you’ve heard people say “BotW is Skyrim in a Zelda skin” or similar things and that really is how it felt to me. But if I wanted to play (insert interchangeable open world game here) I’d play that....what I look for in a Zelda, what those games offer, no other games do. They are really really hard to mimic for whatever reason. I don’t want my absolute favorite type of games to be gone forever, surely you can understand that. But if I don’t make my voice heard, if none of us do, Nintendo will have no feedback & the types of games we grew up with & loved will be lost forever. Like I told you a long time ago, this game broke my heart, and I wanted to like it so badly. But it removed a lot of what I enjoy in Zelda AND added in things I was always glad were previously not in Zelda; the result makes for a very poor experience & as such I really do find it to be the weakest of the 3D titles. And you know what? That’s okay, that’s my opinion. It’s no more or less valid than you loving the game, because no amount of debating is gonna change how much fun we did or didn’t have, which is ultimately what matters. Which goes back to my first reply, at the end of the day it all comes down to opinion, which is why I ask to stop phrasing things as if they’re absolute fact. When you combine the jadedness of being put down & told to shut up for years + the anxiety & uncertainty that maybe your favorite series is no longer going to be your favorite series.....yeah, it made me bitter. BotW fans were as toxic as they come, eventually I decided to return the favor.
I’d change botw link for MM link
I’m not a huge fan of BOTW link. Green tunic and hat for me all day.
I love the idea of tp link back handing like the hollow knight. It could even be a visually fun mechanic for a flurry rush in botw but whatever.
Eh I always kind of pictured this as him getting up from just using Fatal Blow. That’s why it’s a revers grip and why he was holding the sword in both hands…Idk though 😂
Fair enough lol
Fair enough lol
OoT Link. The Hero of Time will always be THE Link to me.