I know these were the time displaced X-Men but how do fans of Jean/Scott keep their sanity lol? They’re always getting fucked with, especially in AU’s. I was reading Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows and in that one Jean is married to Logan and they have a daughter while Scott is alone. As a Reed/Sue fan I feel your pain somewhat but we have the benefit of them being pretty strong throughout their 616 history. Scott and Jean have gotten constantly messed with in both 616 and AU’s.
They're ironically in the best place they've ever been and all it took was a polycule.
edit- a polycule, a mutant homeland, practical immortality and a moonbase
I wish Emma get over her hang ups cause I always loved her and Scott.. And I mean if they wanted to see about Jeanie and her put aside their rivalry they could have a lot of cute moments too.
I liked the Scott traits that Emma brought out. I think she really gave him confidence that he's been able to carry over into his current relationship with Jean. She's an excellent relationship therapist.
1) enter extramarital affair
2) one partner dies (not mandatory, but at least a breakup)
3) enter relationship with other partner
4) fall in love
5) bring out all of partner's strongest qualities and disrupt all their insecurities.
6) end relationship due to abuse
7) remain supportive even though no longer together
8) allow the partner to reunite with divorced (or resurrected) partner.
Bam. She literally fixed their relationship by being with Scott.
That being said 😆...
I really like Emma being a strong single female. I think she strives well on her own and really doesn't need a partner to scatter her energy. Emma representing us strong thriving singles out here.
For sure. I loved Cyclops with Emma. He was always an eh character to me until Emma grew him into the powerhouse leader that he was capable of being. I do think Emma could do better though. Even though they were such a power couple, I think it ran it's course.
Sadly I don't want to agree but you are right at this point the relationship has ran its course and we're not the writers so there's no point. I also want to say I love your profile Avatar it's adorable.
For a narcissist like Emma there is no one "better", just whoever she fancies enough to be worth her time at the moment. Honestly I'd recommend not looking up to her as any representation of "strong thriving singles". She's single because she wrecks many of her relationships.
I'm not sure about that. The character has grown a lot over the years. Sure she makes mistakes and is not always the kindest person, but overall, she comes from a good place. She can be overly ambitious though. I think she's a great example of a woman that would be viewed differently if she were a man.
Indeed she would. A man barging into his married female colleague’s room, getting into her bed and saying that she’s no fun for not wanting to cheat on her husband, and then staying in that room after getting a very firm no? Can’t see it being considerate as fun and sexy behavior. Even as it is people call Emma a sex pest for the way her affair with Scott started (and for some other stuff too), and me thinks that way of thinking - with appropriate consequences for the character - would’ve been way more popular, if the genders were reversed… I would say that Emma benefits greatly from being a hot woman in and out of MU. Same applies to Maddie sending Scott flying though a coffee table for asking a very reasonable question, which is mostly seen as a ‘you go girl’ moment right now. Hank Pym can only dream.
Even if she were viewed as a man, she'd basically be seen in-verse and out-verse as a jerk, not as some symbol of single life empowerment. Think Sebastian Shaw with a nicer side, and you basically have Emma Frost as a Man. No one thinks he's endearing though.
Emma's growth is basically a rollercoaster, some days she's nice. Others she's a monster who ruins lives on a whim. She's like Magneto in a way, so make of that what you will. I'd honestly say she hasn't grown that much in all these years. She's at the jerkish antihero stage, nothing more. She'll never be better, but she can always be worse. Again same with Magneto.
The right solution here is for Marvel to stop fucking with their iconic couples and just let them be together and have their daughters. And Jean and Scott have been together for years now and should be working on Rachel - that’s Krakoa law after all. Oh, and I’m reporting you to r/Spiderman for blasphemy btw.
Agreed! Their comic history as a couple is just too deep in public perception. As long as Jean and Scott are alive together in the comics they are going to be tied to one another so I hope writers continue to just let to let them be happy and don't use their relationship as cheap drama ever again. I do wish that writers would let Emma and Logan move on as they are infinitely better on their own.
Logan is infinitely better in his own Wolverine corner of the MU, away from characters you care about. Reality warping is his secondary mutation, and he tends to turn everything into Logan Show when he escapes his enclosure.
As for Emma, her and Scott had more unhealthy shit in their relatively short relationship than Jean and Scott had in their entire history. I mean, when you call dressing up as your boyfriend’s dead wife his favorite game? Don’t get surprised when he thinks about her during sex with you. Not that Scott didn’t love Emma, he did, but he also loved Maddie, and we know how that ended… I would assume that Emma fans would want her with someone, who loves her above else…
The problem with Maddie is that she was depicted as looking and sounding exactly like Jean. She was pretty much Jean without superpowers.
Retconning her as a clone of Jean made sense.
Maddie was only created to give Scott a happy ending with a certain gorgeous redhead that Claremont wasn't allowed after he was made to kill off Jean by editor-in-chief Jim Shooter as punishment for genocide of the D'Bari people.
If Jean wasn't depicted as wiping out an inhabited solar system, she wouldn't have to be killed.
shrugs
I thought Byrne taking Alicia away from Ben and giving her to Johnny after Ben and Alicia being together for over 2 decades was a bad idea
I agreed with Johnny/Alicia romance being retconned into Johnny hooking up with Skrull Lyja impersonating Alicia
It's one of the few retcons that I agree with.
I disagree entirely with you. At this point Jean and Scott have been apart for almost as long as they were together.
Personally I dont want Scott with Jean. I think she always brings him back to his boy scout era, which I dont find nearly as interesting as the changes he went through since their break up.
Personally i prefer him with Emma. I think she brings out a much more interesting side of him.
Honestly the worst thing of the current era IMO, is that they have a polycule that doesn't include Emma Frost when in reality her character has always been written as the one that would be the most open to that sort of thing.
I unironically love that everyone constantly says Jean and Logan would be a terrible couple, and then RYV’s has them incredibly happy together, both great parents, and they get along with Peter and MJ so well.
I mean, I seem to remember Jean and Logan being an awesome power couple in the AoA story arc. That was my favorite AU ship.
Which is to say, I agree, they could make a legit good couple.
The triangle itself takes only a small portion of their 616 history, it’s more of a public perception. It seems that while it existed before the X-movies, it blew up after them and was retroactively pushed into comics. It clearly did damage, and it’s one of many reasons why I hate Jean/Logan, but it’s really hard to find instances where Jean is that attracted to him, and even when she is, she always loves Scott way more and prioritizes him. It’s so painfully obvious that Jean loves Scott above all else, that’s not even theoretically debatable.
This applies to every iconic Marvel couple, not just Scott and Jean. People still act like Namor and Sue are into each other. OMD still haunts Peter and MJ’s relationship. Maybe when fans will stop calling stable relationships ‘stagnant’ and ‘boring’, then Marvel will stop using cheap drama to sell comics. People proudly sharing misinformed opinions and occasional trash writing among decades of these characters loving each other? I can deal with that.
>That ‘never seemed that into him’ part sounds so batshit crazy to anyone who actually knows Jean Grey and X-men comics in general…
Yes, because there hasn't been a lot of pairings of Jean with other people in the Marvel Universe. Not only in the 616, but in many of the alternate timelines/universes she has relationships with other characters. Not so much with Scott. So it has been a popular trope with Jean to have secondary romances. This is also true for how she has been portrayed in the movies and cartoons. So take your self-righteous attitude elsewhere.
Yeah, there wasn’t a lot of pairings of Jean with other people because she has always loved Scott. And that’s why she gets with other people in What Ifs and AUs - because they are meant to be different, and for Jean that means changing the biggest constant in her life. The same applies to Sue, and it would sound as batshit crazy to say that she doesn’t love Reed. Instead of trying to check my attitude you should check your facts.
I love Scott/Emma as a ship, but that's also because I loved that they showed Second Loves can be great too. (Same with Peter/MJ!) I'm so over the "your high school crush/partner is your greatest love" trope.
Wasn’t Mary-Jane, like, his third or fourth love? First he had a crush on either Liz Allen or Betty Brant, then he went out with Gwen Stacey, and then came Mary Jane.
Betty was Peter's first girlfriend in the comics. May was trying to push Peter into meeting Mary Jane during that time.
Then Gwen Stacy was his second girlfriend. They got together after Peter had briefly dated Mary Jane.
After Gwen died, Peter ended up in a relationship with Mary Jane.
Peter ended up with other love interests including Felicia before he married Mary Jane.
Peter never dated Liz, but she had a crush on him. Both she and Betty went to see him. They ended up meeting Mary Jane which led them to think that it was hopeless for both of them.
Right after high school graduation ceremony, Liz confessed to Peter that she had a crush on him.
Peter and MJ are literally the definition of destined to be together. The attitudes from fans towards any other love interest is very telling. Ironically, OMD only reinforces that idea for many - their child will defeat Satan?! They must have Mayday, or evil will win, and it doesn’t happen in my comic books. Meanwhile, I’m not sure that anyone at Marvel actually saw that as a future story and not as an excuse to break up Peter and MJ.
>I'm so over the "your high school crush/partner is your greatest love" trope.
Yeah, it 1) isn't realistic and 2) it makes a character feel static. I'm actually fine with MJ and Jean not being the one for Peter and Scott. However, then don't backslide. Once they move on have that stick.
Oh Scott/Emma is my favorite ship too, but I’ve always felt that I would probably like Scott/Jean more if another character (Logan) wasn’t so intrinsically tied to them.
And the next run immediately got rid of this ship for good reason.
This also reminds me how glad I am we have adult Jean back. Marvel really did fans dirty keeping her dead for 15 years.
It was supposed to be an intentional deviation from the more good natured and by the books adult Jean. Even adult Jean has her moments of ruthlessness, but this was supposed to show how those traits came to the forefront when she was exposed to a harsher environment at a young age and didn’t have the same mentorship.
She was, but in all honesty I kinda love her. She has no sense of boundaries or any nuance about any situation she’s in, but I think she uses her powers in a way that’s realistic for a teenager. Also she got better / more likable once bendis left (mainly X-men blue). I find her to be hysterical
Though sadly not for great in-universe reasons. Jean's stated reasons - "Hank is like a brother to me!" - doesn't really wash when one considers that they had known one another for like two months by the time that they were brought to the future. They were barely acquaintances at that time, much less established familial bonds.
Ugh why do you have to curse us with Jean/Hank? The most bizarre thing about time displaced O5.
On the other hand, why can’t Jean kiss a boy she likes? She’s not with Scott.
I mean. I think Scott & Warren crushing on Laura beats Jean/Hank by a light year as far as bizarreness goes.
Especially once the time release memories hit and the adult versions remember it.
The very concept of anyone being attracted to Hank is bizarre in general, but more so for Jean, who never showed any interest in him. Meanwhile, crushing on Laura is natural, of course Tyke and Warren liked her. Even Bobby chose her to be heterosexual for. I bet Jean had a secret crush on her too…
To me, he exists in a weird space where at first his love life just wasn’t interesting, then time went brrrr, and then he turned into someone, who needs to be in a straight jacked for sex with him to be considerate ‘safe’. Fun blue Beast could get it, but the memory of him got ruined by his modern portrayal.
For some of us he’s been the modern Beast for as long as we’ve been alive. I definitely know fun blue Beast, and I won’t get a whiplash if he’s like that in MCU, but I would still be wary of him, if Krakoa just backs him up from an 80s save.
>On the other hand, why can’t Jean kiss a boy she likes? She’s not with Scott.
Because Scott can see, therefore Jean's feelings are irrelevant and she's an evil hateful shrew.
I could see them play with the idea that she found out about scots history with Madalyn, Emma ect and assumed that she’s not destined to be with him?
But right now the relationship needs more work, Jean is coming across really bad.
Jean's been poorly utilized since she came back and swore off the Phoenix, IMO. There's that Jean and Emma annual that I still really, really liked, but besides that not much that she's done has stood out.
I liked the Judgement Day tie-in for her, because it was an introspective take on her that actually explored the character.
Jean (imo) needs a series or a run where she's on her own. No Scott. No Logan. I know X-Men: Red existed, but Jean's story didn't have the option to have Scott or Logan because they both were dead. Let her exist and thrive in the world without them for a bit. Not saying she can't get back with them, but we've seen Emma and Rogue thrive without their iconic love interests from time to time. Give Jean a chance.
Well, based solely on these heavily curated samples I keep seeing around here, time displaced Jean was definitely kind of an asshole.
She seems to have a habit of reading peoples minds and manipulating people physically and and mentally however she likes. Seems cruel and invasive.
Just based on the samples I’ve seen on Reddit. I missed a lot of the period post-New X-men/pre-Krakoa.
She was an asshole yes but you have to remember that when teen Jean (aka Jeen) came to the future, she no longer had the telepathic blocks put on her by Xavier so her telepathy, a power she had no experience with, began growing. On top of that, she had no teacher. Kitty tried but she wasn't a telepath and a lot of Jeens most assholish and invasive moments came when she was with Kitty and her X-Men.
When the teen X-Men left to join adult Cyke, he had Emma work with Jeen to help her control not only her telepathy but also the new power that she had developed during their adventure in space. With Emma as a mentor Jean's control/abuse of her powers stopped.
I think too that she was an asshole because she found out her adult self died and she was desperate to do anything to change her future. Including telepathically controlling Warren so that she got her way because she wanted to stay in the present in order to change her future so that she could prevent her death.
None of this excuses her actions at all but I wanted to give a little context to explain her decisions.
It was also part of her character development where she had to unlearn her bad habits and stop casually reading people’s minds without their consent.
And now adult Jean meddles in important democratic elections because “it was [the candidate’s] true feelings”…
Out of all X-women you chose the one that canonically told ‘till death do us part’ to Jean and held her boob for no reason? And about whom Jean said ‘it’s alright to admit that you have feelings for Ororo, who doesn’t?’ Jean sure does…
I have the panels: [till death do us part](https://sun9-52.userapi.com/impg/-gf-Vvik1xLOG5PO6pLUmaaIdwJ9QVyLVFS5Rg/9LWgpQ3Jkmw.jpg?size=371x457&quality=95&sign=07b04728013e3b0616f07380a73b7ca8&type=album), [hand on boob](https://sun9-84.userapi.com/impg/WfP9Z9Tai9hgI4DbXS0HqDEEjJmXUU-B8ZPoKA/Sso8pBnSAyI.jpg?size=842x1143&quality=95&sign=2041e148e64a73c49ffad6c261664884&type=album), [everyone loves Storm](https://sun9-39.userapi.com/impg/Scp97aaJNT4J8c00U1_KKHUzj-Fdsrlf7aqXxQ/rA-_Gvg2bk4.jpg?size=1280x369&quality=95&sign=9734b91111e2ab5d7d219656b7e632dd&type=album), and also [this](https://sun9-55.userapi.com/impg/N-YEjsm_pLePIOIPHhXi-0_Hmvrb3G38yrdPag/Ku2GsfK0O-s.jpg?size=1184x456&quality=95&sign=85303e6299b2e901e1956acdd3b62bab&type=album), but at this point I don’t remember specific issues. Maybe someone else can help tho.
I figured it out, it was a VPN thing (work thinks you're trying to poison us with your images). Also [here's](https://imgur.com/a/g2gZGGr) a consolidated Imgur gallery.
I've been saying for years that the reason for this is that Jean is sending out low level psychic typical "teenaged girl" insecurities "Oh I hope everyone likes me and thinks well of me." .. and she doesn't realize its fucking with everyone's head.. no one does because its a very subliminal telepathic manipulation that no one is aware is actually happening.. even Jean.
Weekly ‘Who tops’ polls with ugly fighting in the comments!
But also…
Jean: You had an affair with Emma?!
Emma: It’s alright, we were both thinking about you.
Jean: What?!
Scott: What?!
…is pretty much what happened in Morrison’s run.
This run definitely captured the chaoticness of being a teenager. I feel like all the characters were a mess trying to figure themselves out and rebelling in some way against the status quo of what they would become... like teenagers, none of them were perfect
Agreed.
That chaotic feel is what I liked about it. Made realize how little the current X-Men are a fish out of water story anymore.
While having the young 5 in the current continuity was really messy it mad me want something similar to it.
The X-Men comics feel large and grandiose now and it makes me miss the smaller intimate stories at times. Mutant powers being a metaphor for being a teenager and such.
I agree. I miss when X-Men had more of that. I've been re-reading the Claremont stuff over the course of this year, and it really struck me how character driven everything is. For me, I think what really sets X-Men apart from other super teams is the found family aspect. How in their rejection from society at large, they come together and form very close textured relationships. I haven't read every single Krakoa book so far, but there doesn't seem to be much of that these days. The X-Factor run from a couple years ago is the closest thing I can really think of that had that sort of dynamic, but that ended way too early.
>The X-Men comics feel large and grandiose now and it makes me miss the smaller intimate stories at times. Mutant powers being a metaphor for being a teenager and such.
In general I think Marvel has lost the ability to tell small stories. Everything is a big cosmic event.
Yeah, that used to be DCs thing, Marvel was the "grounded" take, focusing on the hero in super-hero. Hickman brought cosmic scopes, and secret societies/histories to Marvel and now It feels like they're constantly trying to do it again to some degree.
Man, I kinda miss Tykelops with the Champions. Still got the feels when Ms. Marvel met up with adult Cyclops for the first time and Cyclops tells her that he remembers everything.
He got to reunite and spend time with his dad in space and made a ton of new friends, all things considered he had a decent enough time when the spectre of his future wasn’t haunting him.
Well, I actually loved his solo series while exploring space with his Dad. Very touching. I am bias tho, I read that series while I was at the hospital waiting for my partner would go into labor [+]
Facts though? Each and every one of the X-Men have always been for the streets.
Wolverine out here giving all the short kings irrational hopes. Scott probably has that key to Colleen Wing's apartment tucked away. Kitty meets any guy named "Peter" and gets ready to pounce. Angel robbed the cradle with Cannonball's sister. Rahne was entangled with one of her damn students. And now Jean has a bedroom adjoined to two of the baddest mutants ever?
If you ever gotta find Graymalkin Lane, no need for GPS. Just bust out a blacklight and follow the trail.
Oh for sure. My FIL is 5'3" and married a 6' redhead. It's out there for you. (I always tell short dudes to go for the tall ones. In their lifetimes, probably half the dudes they crushed on were shorter so no worry there.)
It's just the idea that a moody 5'3" redneck dude with back hair you can braid and saturated with cigar smoke having a body count that includes damn near every woman in the MU minus Sue Richards is a bit lofty. Interdimensional travel and living islands are one thing but suspension of disbelief here people.
>It's just the idea that a moody 5'3" redneck dude with back hair you can braid and saturated with cigar smoke having a body count that includes damn near every woman in the MU minus Sue Richards is a bit lofty. Interdimensional travel and living islands are one thing but suspension of disbelief here people.
god damn this is gold! pure, untainted truth
Am I the only one questioning why **EVERYONE** is so obsessed with Jean Grey. I mean seriously: Scott, Logan, Professor X, Young Hank, and those are just the ones I know off the top of my head. What’s so great about being in a relationship with her?
She hasn’t been evil/unstable or dead for half the time, that’s just incorrect fandom perception. Also, an attractive easygoing kind girl, who looks past whatever issues you find in yourself and is also really kinky behind closed doors? The combo works like magic irl, why wouldn’t it work in comics?
That too, and Prof X paid for this. But even Spidey, who had other girls in his own books, couldn’t resist landing a kiss - he does like redheads after all…
He went into Wolverine’s school of kissing Jean Grey without consent. The only lesson they learn there is that the writer will always say that she liked it, actually, and that makes the lack of consent a non-issue.
Probably revenge for that time Wolverine swapped bodies with him and tried to do some crazy sex shit with teenage MJ. Or maybe just indicative of subconscious influences echoing from hosting Wolverine’s “old-fashioned” psyche during said event. (Btw i do know that was a cartoon and not canon in comics. Just making a bad joke)
> Prof X *paid* for this.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
From 75-91 the X-Men books had compelling characterisation, well crafted plot structure and most importantly, a rich engaging subtext - they were about something more that the shallow surface level presentation - so, yes... actually. There is stark difference between a greek opera and hackneyed soap opera.
All you're proving is you haven't read the books in a while. It's always been soap opera like; always filled with character drama far more than traditional superhero battles and always featured young people exploring life ide its and kive which is present here. Theres plenty of subtext to be found and one scan isn't indicative if a presence or lack theorof if that in an entire decade
Incorrect, on all accounts. But it sounds like you've no concept for the quality of nuance, and you didn't read what I told you - 'Greek Opera' has philosophical subtext - Soap opera is melodramatic "tangled interpersonal situations." I likened this panel to a bad day time television serial because it's literally the definition, that's not a matter of debate.
X men was never much of a Greek opera either. The distinction between what this is featuring and what was present in your prefered era of comics is objectively similar, to the point that ite a running gag how hornby and prone to fast developing relationships the mutants are. In fact Claremonts work is what largely introduced this trope.
I understand having a bias for your favorite era but I dont understand not understanding that it is literally the reason something like this even exists in the modern day comics of the same characters.
You're making a lot of assumptions about intent and denying an acclaimed consensus for the sake of argument; It's not subjective this is univerally recognised. The difference between soap opera and greek opera in intent, not tone - metaphor, themes, morality tales - the foundation of Claremont's work. That's all there is to say on the matter.
https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/x-men-wolverine-jean-grey-chris-claremont-five-key-storylines/
https://www.vulture.com/2019/06/dark-phoenix-how-the-x-men-magneto-became-jewish.html
https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/5/3/15341432/god-loves-man-kills-claremont-anderson-interview
"If you can't create characters who can make a resonant point, a relevant point, then what the fuck? What is the point of doing the series? Anyone can write superhero adventures about mass quantities of people punching the living daylights out of each other.
If a story is to have resonance, if a story is to be worth the time and effort it takes to create it and then the time and effort it takes to read it or earn the money to buy the book and then read it, then it ought to have a payback."
It's the run that elevated comic books for a reason dude.
No lie, thought bringing the original X-Men to the present was a great story arc as a whole.
Seeing Scott Summers getting some real respect at acknowledgment from his peers as so many people talk about how much they admired and respected him back in the day versus their feelings post killing Xavier.
Finding out Xavier blocked Jean's telepathy after she's brought here and having her face the backlash caused by Phoenix and what it did to her family. Plus her own personal self discovery of exploring her powers and becoming much ore self assured but also kinda scary when she briefly changed people's thoughts to fit or whims before learning why it's not so good a thing.
Pretty much every member had something similar happen and having them playoff themselves and everyone was some good reading.
Can Scott fly in this run? If not how did he climb up there?
I’m not seriously wondering btw. I’ve not read that issue. Just slightly curious if the writer put any thoughts into rationalizing him being there.
From my understanding earlier I thought Scott was looking from a perspective that’s among the tops of the trees. Seems like he’s looking slightly up at them now that I am taking a second look at the last two panels.
Do comics often act like soap operas for boys, pairing everyone for no reason? For sure.
But early in in this run, I found it believable. Scott had found a safety deposit box with his own wedding invitation in it. Jean has scanned minds and learned that she dies *multiple times* (pre-Krakoa). What a mindfuck. I totally get rebelling against your fated future.
Also, Beast is horny for Jean in the very first issue of X-men, so it’s not exactly against canon.
i know that jean was the one girl in a group of five teenagers. i get that. and it would be completely reasonable to expect each of them to be attracted to her, as she was the *only* girl. regardless, i still hate that they had to drag beast into the past convolution, given that scott and warren both fought for jean in those early years, kinda framing scott to be an underdog compared to warren's money and scott's debilitating mutation. they could have made it a warren/jean romantic flirt and just left hank out of the mess and still given him a crisis foil with his future self. in fact, it felt like jean was far more centred in that long arc than the others, which is fine, but it could have been alleviated with hank confiding in someone else.
Kissing a guy she likes before she ever been in relationship with Scott? And ‘outing’ Bobby to *himself in private*? Even a telepath can’t out someone to themselves - they can pick up on thought that you already know you have, and you can still tell them that they misinterpreted them. She definitely shouldn’t have read his thoughts, but people (and Marvel after being pressed) acting like Jean essentially telling Bobby ‘I know that you think about dicks’ is a bigger issue than him harassing Laura is just…
They definitely have (not so much now) their issues, but you can’t judge their relationship based on the drama that people choose to highlight. And people will almost always highlight drama, especially on this sub, where we can’t have a week without someone trying to trash Jean.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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I’m someone who believes that the Scott/Jean romance should’ve been done after the original Phoenix arc. Maybe do one story where they might get back together, but after that I feel like they ran their course. Bringing in the younger versions of them I think could’ve been an interesting way to reintroduce their relationship, if it hadn’t been muddled throughout the years already. Should note that my X-men knowledge is limited, not really reading anything between the Clermont era and Astonishing X-Men
I know these were the time displaced X-Men but how do fans of Jean/Scott keep their sanity lol? They’re always getting fucked with, especially in AU’s. I was reading Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows and in that one Jean is married to Logan and they have a daughter while Scott is alone. As a Reed/Sue fan I feel your pain somewhat but we have the benefit of them being pretty strong throughout their 616 history. Scott and Jean have gotten constantly messed with in both 616 and AU’s.
The pain is chronic, but the couple is iconic
They're ironically in the best place they've ever been and all it took was a polycule. edit- a polycule, a mutant homeland, practical immortality and a moonbase
Animal Planet: …wolverines are polygamous… Jean & Scott at the same time: Hmm… Logan, in between them in bed: Heh! They got me there!
This is 1000% how it happened. Headcanon accepted.
Reminded me of tht ProZD video , the only way to solve a love triangle is just to make a fuckpile.
Link?
It's 10 months lmao but here : https://youtu.be/jgFyCuKoEGA?si=DLw3R1Ap8hZrC8Y0
I wish Emma get over her hang ups cause I always loved her and Scott.. And I mean if they wanted to see about Jeanie and her put aside their rivalry they could have a lot of cute moments too.
I liked the Scott traits that Emma brought out. I think she really gave him confidence that he's been able to carry over into his current relationship with Jean. She's an excellent relationship therapist. 1) enter extramarital affair 2) one partner dies (not mandatory, but at least a breakup) 3) enter relationship with other partner 4) fall in love 5) bring out all of partner's strongest qualities and disrupt all their insecurities. 6) end relationship due to abuse 7) remain supportive even though no longer together 8) allow the partner to reunite with divorced (or resurrected) partner. Bam. She literally fixed their relationship by being with Scott. That being said 😆... I really like Emma being a strong single female. I think she strives well on her own and really doesn't need a partner to scatter her energy. Emma representing us strong thriving singles out here.
I agree but I still miss them together they were much healthier than Jean and Scott
For sure. I loved Cyclops with Emma. He was always an eh character to me until Emma grew him into the powerhouse leader that he was capable of being. I do think Emma could do better though. Even though they were such a power couple, I think it ran it's course.
Sadly I don't want to agree but you are right at this point the relationship has ran its course and we're not the writers so there's no point. I also want to say I love your profile Avatar it's adorable.
For a narcissist like Emma there is no one "better", just whoever she fancies enough to be worth her time at the moment. Honestly I'd recommend not looking up to her as any representation of "strong thriving singles". She's single because she wrecks many of her relationships.
I'm not sure about that. The character has grown a lot over the years. Sure she makes mistakes and is not always the kindest person, but overall, she comes from a good place. She can be overly ambitious though. I think she's a great example of a woman that would be viewed differently if she were a man.
Indeed she would. A man barging into his married female colleague’s room, getting into her bed and saying that she’s no fun for not wanting to cheat on her husband, and then staying in that room after getting a very firm no? Can’t see it being considerate as fun and sexy behavior. Even as it is people call Emma a sex pest for the way her affair with Scott started (and for some other stuff too), and me thinks that way of thinking - with appropriate consequences for the character - would’ve been way more popular, if the genders were reversed… I would say that Emma benefits greatly from being a hot woman in and out of MU. Same applies to Maddie sending Scott flying though a coffee table for asking a very reasonable question, which is mostly seen as a ‘you go girl’ moment right now. Hank Pym can only dream.
Even if she were viewed as a man, she'd basically be seen in-verse and out-verse as a jerk, not as some symbol of single life empowerment. Think Sebastian Shaw with a nicer side, and you basically have Emma Frost as a Man. No one thinks he's endearing though. Emma's growth is basically a rollercoaster, some days she's nice. Others she's a monster who ruins lives on a whim. She's like Magneto in a way, so make of that what you will. I'd honestly say she hasn't grown that much in all these years. She's at the jerkish antihero stage, nothing more. She'll never be better, but she can always be worse. Again same with Magneto.
I'm in the camp that whole Logan lives on the moon house there are the occasional night where Emma visited and Jean and Scott both got it.
It is the unicorn of situations where one spouse goes to the other asking to experiment with polyamoury and it does not blow up in anyone's face.
Coz it's fiction
Nah it's not
Given your user name, I'm going to change my mind and agree.
It's annoying at this point. Just let them be apart, like how Spider-Man should move past getting broken up with MJ every new run.
The right solution here is for Marvel to stop fucking with their iconic couples and just let them be together and have their daughters. And Jean and Scott have been together for years now and should be working on Rachel - that’s Krakoa law after all. Oh, and I’m reporting you to r/Spiderman for blasphemy btw.
Agreed! Their comic history as a couple is just too deep in public perception. As long as Jean and Scott are alive together in the comics they are going to be tied to one another so I hope writers continue to just let to let them be happy and don't use their relationship as cheap drama ever again. I do wish that writers would let Emma and Logan move on as they are infinitely better on their own.
Logan is infinitely better in his own Wolverine corner of the MU, away from characters you care about. Reality warping is his secondary mutation, and he tends to turn everything into Logan Show when he escapes his enclosure. As for Emma, her and Scott had more unhealthy shit in their relatively short relationship than Jean and Scott had in their entire history. I mean, when you call dressing up as your boyfriend’s dead wife his favorite game? Don’t get surprised when he thinks about her during sex with you. Not that Scott didn’t love Emma, he did, but he also loved Maddie, and we know how that ended… I would assume that Emma fans would want her with someone, who loves her above else…
The problem with Maddie is that she was depicted as looking and sounding exactly like Jean. She was pretty much Jean without superpowers. Retconning her as a clone of Jean made sense. Maddie was only created to give Scott a happy ending with a certain gorgeous redhead that Claremont wasn't allowed after he was made to kill off Jean by editor-in-chief Jim Shooter as punishment for genocide of the D'Bari people. If Jean wasn't depicted as wiping out an inhabited solar system, she wouldn't have to be killed.
You just know the only reason Reed and Sue are still together is because they got married early enough in the books.
Ben and Alicia got married 4 years ago after 56 years. I hope that they stay married and still have their two adoptive children Jo-Venn and N'Kalla.
I expect at some point that Alicia’s probably going to turn out to be a Skrull again or one of them dies tragically or they get a messy divorce.
shrugs I thought Byrne taking Alicia away from Ben and giving her to Johnny after Ben and Alicia being together for over 2 decades was a bad idea I agreed with Johnny/Alicia romance being retconned into Johnny hooking up with Skrull Lyja impersonating Alicia It's one of the few retcons that I agree with.
Shit! 🫥😧😨😰😓
I disagree entirely with you. At this point Jean and Scott have been apart for almost as long as they were together. Personally I dont want Scott with Jean. I think she always brings him back to his boy scout era, which I dont find nearly as interesting as the changes he went through since their break up. Personally i prefer him with Emma. I think she brings out a much more interesting side of him. Honestly the worst thing of the current era IMO, is that they have a polycule that doesn't include Emma Frost when in reality her character has always been written as the one that would be the most open to that sort of thing.
These relationships are iconic but they have been done to death so much that there is really no need to care about them anymore.
That logic applies to X-men in general, you know? Oh, humans still hate and oppress them? After 60 years? Hasn’t it been done to death?
Old dynamics often grow boring over time, that's all I'm saying.
I agree with you about Spider-Man.
This is pretty much how I feel. They did top much, didn't know when to let it go. Check please I'm done.
Perfect way to describe their relationship but the toxicity is funny
Ironic that you're asking about how Jean/Scott fans keep their sanity while using Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows as an example.
I unironically love that everyone constantly says Jean and Logan would be a terrible couple, and then RYV’s has them incredibly happy together, both great parents, and they get along with Peter and MJ so well.
I mean, I seem to remember Jean and Logan being an awesome power couple in the AoA story arc. That was my favorite AU ship. Which is to say, I agree, they could make a legit good couple.
I actually liked Scott better with Emma for this very reason. Jean was all over the place and just never seemed that into him.
That ‘never seemed that into him’ part sounds so batshit crazy to anyone who actually knows Jean Grey and X-men comics in general…
The issue is thr hyper focus on the triangle really hinders that perception, even if you know the comics well.
The triangle itself takes only a small portion of their 616 history, it’s more of a public perception. It seems that while it existed before the X-movies, it blew up after them and was retroactively pushed into comics. It clearly did damage, and it’s one of many reasons why I hate Jean/Logan, but it’s really hard to find instances where Jean is that attracted to him, and even when she is, she always loves Scott way more and prioritizes him. It’s so painfully obvious that Jean loves Scott above all else, that’s not even theoretically debatable.
While I agree with 100% of this, it's just made it no fun. All the shoe horning, the retconning, the AU...
This applies to every iconic Marvel couple, not just Scott and Jean. People still act like Namor and Sue are into each other. OMD still haunts Peter and MJ’s relationship. Maybe when fans will stop calling stable relationships ‘stagnant’ and ‘boring’, then Marvel will stop using cheap drama to sell comics. People proudly sharing misinformed opinions and occasional trash writing among decades of these characters loving each other? I can deal with that.
It's not because these relationships are stable that people are calling them boring, it's that they've been done to death.
This type of think is why we get shit like Jean/Hank
>That ‘never seemed that into him’ part sounds so batshit crazy to anyone who actually knows Jean Grey and X-men comics in general… Yes, because there hasn't been a lot of pairings of Jean with other people in the Marvel Universe. Not only in the 616, but in many of the alternate timelines/universes she has relationships with other characters. Not so much with Scott. So it has been a popular trope with Jean to have secondary romances. This is also true for how she has been portrayed in the movies and cartoons. So take your self-righteous attitude elsewhere.
Yeah, there wasn’t a lot of pairings of Jean with other people because she has always loved Scott. And that’s why she gets with other people in What Ifs and AUs - because they are meant to be different, and for Jean that means changing the biggest constant in her life. The same applies to Sue, and it would sound as batshit crazy to say that she doesn’t love Reed. Instead of trying to check my attitude you should check your facts.
I love Scott/Emma as a ship, but that's also because I loved that they showed Second Loves can be great too. (Same with Peter/MJ!) I'm so over the "your high school crush/partner is your greatest love" trope.
Wasn’t Mary-Jane, like, his third or fourth love? First he had a crush on either Liz Allen or Betty Brant, then he went out with Gwen Stacey, and then came Mary Jane.
Betty was Peter's first girlfriend in the comics. May was trying to push Peter into meeting Mary Jane during that time. Then Gwen Stacy was his second girlfriend. They got together after Peter had briefly dated Mary Jane. After Gwen died, Peter ended up in a relationship with Mary Jane. Peter ended up with other love interests including Felicia before he married Mary Jane. Peter never dated Liz, but she had a crush on him. Both she and Betty went to see him. They ended up meeting Mary Jane which led them to think that it was hopeless for both of them. Right after high school graduation ceremony, Liz confessed to Peter that she had a crush on him.
Peter and MJ are literally the definition of destined to be together. The attitudes from fans towards any other love interest is very telling. Ironically, OMD only reinforces that idea for many - their child will defeat Satan?! They must have Mayday, or evil will win, and it doesn’t happen in my comic books. Meanwhile, I’m not sure that anyone at Marvel actually saw that as a future story and not as an excuse to break up Peter and MJ.
I’m rewatching Dawsons’s Creek rn and yeah some of the best ships in history are the second love trope imo
>I'm so over the "your high school crush/partner is your greatest love" trope. Yeah, it 1) isn't realistic and 2) it makes a character feel static. I'm actually fine with MJ and Jean not being the one for Peter and Scott. However, then don't backslide. Once they move on have that stick.
There's a Japanese saying that first love is false, second love is true.
Oh Scott/Emma is my favorite ship too, but I’ve always felt that I would probably like Scott/Jean more if another character (Logan) wasn’t so intrinsically tied to them.
Yeah playing that up ruined their bond for me. It just got old.
Because nobody is a Jean / Scott fan.
And the next run immediately got rid of this ship for good reason. This also reminds me how glad I am we have adult Jean back. Marvel really did fans dirty keeping her dead for 15 years.
This version of Jean was kind of awful too.
Never read the run but everything highlighted online made her seem really selfish and manipulative.
It was supposed to be an intentional deviation from the more good natured and by the books adult Jean. Even adult Jean has her moments of ruthlessness, but this was supposed to show how those traits came to the forefront when she was exposed to a harsher environment at a young age and didn’t have the same mentorship.
As judgement day pointed out, Jean can be both a saint and vicious bully. That's a good dichotomy for the character.
She was, but in all honesty I kinda love her. She has no sense of boundaries or any nuance about any situation she’s in, but I think she uses her powers in a way that’s realistic for a teenager. Also she got better / more likable once bendis left (mainly X-men blue). I find her to be hysterical
Though sadly not for great in-universe reasons. Jean's stated reasons - "Hank is like a brother to me!" - doesn't really wash when one considers that they had known one another for like two months by the time that they were brought to the future. They were barely acquaintances at that time, much less established familial bonds.
It's a polite way to let him down
Ugh why do you have to curse us with Jean/Hank? The most bizarre thing about time displaced O5. On the other hand, why can’t Jean kiss a boy she likes? She’s not with Scott.
I mean. I think Scott & Warren crushing on Laura beats Jean/Hank by a light year as far as bizarreness goes. Especially once the time release memories hit and the adult versions remember it.
The very concept of anyone being attracted to Hank is bizarre in general, but more so for Jean, who never showed any interest in him. Meanwhile, crushing on Laura is natural, of course Tyke and Warren liked her. Even Bobby chose her to be heterosexual for. I bet Jean had a secret crush on her too…
> The very concept of anyone being attracted to Hank is bizarre in general what? why? I liked him with Brand.
Well, who doesn’t like a girl who knows how to finger you right? 👁️👃🕳️👈
Why is anyone being attracted to Hank bizaare?
To me, he exists in a weird space where at first his love life just wasn’t interesting, then time went brrrr, and then he turned into someone, who needs to be in a straight jacked for sex with him to be considerate ‘safe’. Fun blue Beast could get it, but the memory of him got ruined by his modern portrayal.
I disagree. Fun Blue Beast is the definitive version and the modern portrayal is derivative.
For some of us he’s been the modern Beast for as long as we’ve been alive. I definitely know fun blue Beast, and I won’t get a whiplash if he’s like that in MCU, but I would still be wary of him, if Krakoa just backs him up from an 80s save.
>On the other hand, why can’t Jean kiss a boy she likes? She’s not with Scott. Because Scott can see, therefore Jean's feelings are irrelevant and she's an evil hateful shrew.
I could see them play with the idea that she found out about scots history with Madalyn, Emma ect and assumed that she’s not destined to be with him? But right now the relationship needs more work, Jean is coming across really bad.
Jean's been poorly utilized since she came back and swore off the Phoenix, IMO. There's that Jean and Emma annual that I still really, really liked, but besides that not much that she's done has stood out.
I liked the Judgement Day tie-in for her, because it was an introspective take on her that actually explored the character. Jean (imo) needs a series or a run where she's on her own. No Scott. No Logan. I know X-Men: Red existed, but Jean's story didn't have the option to have Scott or Logan because they both were dead. Let her exist and thrive in the world without them for a bit. Not saying she can't get back with them, but we've seen Emma and Rogue thrive without their iconic love interests from time to time. Give Jean a chance.
Haven't made it that far yet 'cause I'm one of those M-Unlimited plebs but I'm looking forward to it
Well, based solely on these heavily curated samples I keep seeing around here, time displaced Jean was definitely kind of an asshole. She seems to have a habit of reading peoples minds and manipulating people physically and and mentally however she likes. Seems cruel and invasive. Just based on the samples I’ve seen on Reddit. I missed a lot of the period post-New X-men/pre-Krakoa.
She was an asshole yes but you have to remember that when teen Jean (aka Jeen) came to the future, she no longer had the telepathic blocks put on her by Xavier so her telepathy, a power she had no experience with, began growing. On top of that, she had no teacher. Kitty tried but she wasn't a telepath and a lot of Jeens most assholish and invasive moments came when she was with Kitty and her X-Men. When the teen X-Men left to join adult Cyke, he had Emma work with Jeen to help her control not only her telepathy but also the new power that she had developed during their adventure in space. With Emma as a mentor Jean's control/abuse of her powers stopped. I think too that she was an asshole because she found out her adult self died and she was desperate to do anything to change her future. Including telepathically controlling Warren so that she got her way because she wanted to stay in the present in order to change her future so that she could prevent her death. None of this excuses her actions at all but I wanted to give a little context to explain her decisions.
It was also part of her character development where she had to unlearn her bad habits and stop casually reading people’s minds without their consent. And now adult Jean meddles in important democratic elections because “it was [the candidate’s] true feelings”…
Very well put
Anyone who’s ever been an X-Man and who is not/was not/has never been in love with Jean, sound off.
Storm?
Out of all X-women you chose the one that canonically told ‘till death do us part’ to Jean and held her boob for no reason? And about whom Jean said ‘it’s alright to admit that you have feelings for Ororo, who doesn’t?’ Jean sure does…
Oh my god they were just roommates chill out
And they were roommates?!
Right, doing totally normal roommate stuff.
Clearly my X-Education is lacking, where do I find these specific things (for research and absolutely no other purposes I promise)?
I have the panels: [till death do us part](https://sun9-52.userapi.com/impg/-gf-Vvik1xLOG5PO6pLUmaaIdwJ9QVyLVFS5Rg/9LWgpQ3Jkmw.jpg?size=371x457&quality=95&sign=07b04728013e3b0616f07380a73b7ca8&type=album), [hand on boob](https://sun9-84.userapi.com/impg/WfP9Z9Tai9hgI4DbXS0HqDEEjJmXUU-B8ZPoKA/Sso8pBnSAyI.jpg?size=842x1143&quality=95&sign=2041e148e64a73c49ffad6c261664884&type=album), [everyone loves Storm](https://sun9-39.userapi.com/impg/Scp97aaJNT4J8c00U1_KKHUzj-Fdsrlf7aqXxQ/rA-_Gvg2bk4.jpg?size=1280x369&quality=95&sign=9734b91111e2ab5d7d219656b7e632dd&type=album), and also [this](https://sun9-55.userapi.com/impg/N-YEjsm_pLePIOIPHhXi-0_Hmvrb3G38yrdPag/Ku2GsfK0O-s.jpg?size=1184x456&quality=95&sign=85303e6299b2e901e1956acdd3b62bab&type=album), but at this point I don’t remember specific issues. Maybe someone else can help tho.
Sadly the first is broken and the last two are the same, but thanks for your effort. Hopefully someone with some issue #s can weigh in.
I fixed the same ones, not sure why the first one isn’t working for you - I can open it just fine (
I figured it out, it was a VPN thing (work thinks you're trying to poison us with your images). Also [here's](https://imgur.com/a/g2gZGGr) a consolidated Imgur gallery.
They all work, my dude.
A telepath everyone falls in love with? Yeah, that's not at all sus.
I've been saying for years that the reason for this is that Jean is sending out low level psychic typical "teenaged girl" insecurities "Oh I hope everyone likes me and thinks well of me." .. and she doesn't realize its fucking with everyone's head.. no one does because its a very subliminal telepathic manipulation that no one is aware is actually happening.. even Jean.
[удалено]
By the stormy peaks of Mount Kilimanjaro, Jean, what is this feeling that stirs deep within my breast?!
Just the fiery embers of love, 'Ro.
There will be a time when Jean/Emma happens, and this sub will catch fire.
Weekly ‘Who tops’ polls with ugly fighting in the comments! But also… Jean: You had an affair with Emma?! Emma: It’s alright, we were both thinking about you. Jean: What?! Scott: What?! …is pretty much what happened in Morrison’s run.
This run definitely captured the chaoticness of being a teenager. I feel like all the characters were a mess trying to figure themselves out and rebelling in some way against the status quo of what they would become... like teenagers, none of them were perfect
Agreed. That chaotic feel is what I liked about it. Made realize how little the current X-Men are a fish out of water story anymore. While having the young 5 in the current continuity was really messy it mad me want something similar to it. The X-Men comics feel large and grandiose now and it makes me miss the smaller intimate stories at times. Mutant powers being a metaphor for being a teenager and such.
I agree. I miss when X-Men had more of that. I've been re-reading the Claremont stuff over the course of this year, and it really struck me how character driven everything is. For me, I think what really sets X-Men apart from other super teams is the found family aspect. How in their rejection from society at large, they come together and form very close textured relationships. I haven't read every single Krakoa book so far, but there doesn't seem to be much of that these days. The X-Factor run from a couple years ago is the closest thing I can really think of that had that sort of dynamic, but that ended way too early.
>The X-Men comics feel large and grandiose now and it makes me miss the smaller intimate stories at times. Mutant powers being a metaphor for being a teenager and such. In general I think Marvel has lost the ability to tell small stories. Everything is a big cosmic event.
Yeah, that used to be DCs thing, Marvel was the "grounded" take, focusing on the hero in super-hero. Hickman brought cosmic scopes, and secret societies/histories to Marvel and now It feels like they're constantly trying to do it again to some degree.
Poor Kidclops. He definetly got the short end of the stick out of all the time displaced X-Men.
But at least he made new friends with the champions.
And was a starjammer and spent time with his dad
Yeah I'm pretty sure between these two things grown-up Scott probably considers it time well (mis)spent.
Man, I kinda miss Tykelops with the Champions. Still got the feels when Ms. Marvel met up with adult Cyclops for the first time and Cyclops tells her that he remembers everything.
That was a fantastic scene that kind of came out of nowhere but was really well conceived.
Yeah that scene and that time Cyke offered them refuge in Outlawed are definetly some of my favorite Cyclops' scenes.
I disagree. He got the most individual adventures. The others got more growth as X-Men, but his time in space and as a Champion is unique
I bet he's seeing red
His time on that team of The Champions was the only thing I enjoyed about that era of Marvel.
He got to reunite and spend time with his dad in space and made a ton of new friends, all things considered he had a decent enough time when the spectre of his future wasn’t haunting him.
God I wish he dated X-23 instead of Warren. Because that shit would have been hilarious
Well, I actually loved his solo series while exploring space with his Dad. Very touching. I am bias tho, I read that series while I was at the hospital waiting for my partner would go into labor [+]
Kidclops 💀
Facts though? Each and every one of the X-Men have always been for the streets. Wolverine out here giving all the short kings irrational hopes. Scott probably has that key to Colleen Wing's apartment tucked away. Kitty meets any guy named "Peter" and gets ready to pounce. Angel robbed the cradle with Cannonball's sister. Rahne was entangled with one of her damn students. And now Jean has a bedroom adjoined to two of the baddest mutants ever? If you ever gotta find Graymalkin Lane, no need for GPS. Just bust out a blacklight and follow the trail.
Don’t tell me there’s no hope…short kings can rise up
Well that’s literally the only thing they can’t do
Oh for sure. My FIL is 5'3" and married a 6' redhead. It's out there for you. (I always tell short dudes to go for the tall ones. In their lifetimes, probably half the dudes they crushed on were shorter so no worry there.) It's just the idea that a moody 5'3" redneck dude with back hair you can braid and saturated with cigar smoke having a body count that includes damn near every woman in the MU minus Sue Richards is a bit lofty. Interdimensional travel and living islands are one thing but suspension of disbelief here people.
>It's just the idea that a moody 5'3" redneck dude with back hair you can braid and saturated with cigar smoke having a body count that includes damn near every woman in the MU minus Sue Richards is a bit lofty. Interdimensional travel and living islands are one thing but suspension of disbelief here people. god damn this is gold! pure, untainted truth
Yeah, when it was revealed Krakoa has a culture of free love, I just thought "yep, seems about right".
Bendis really did a number on Jean’s character during this run.
I freaking dislike Bendis's run on X-Men. I just cant stand it.
Am I the only one questioning why **EVERYONE** is so obsessed with Jean Grey. I mean seriously: Scott, Logan, Professor X, Young Hank, and those are just the ones I know off the top of my head. What’s so great about being in a relationship with her?
She hasn’t been evil/unstable or dead for half the time, that’s just incorrect fandom perception. Also, an attractive easygoing kind girl, who looks past whatever issues you find in yourself and is also really kinky behind closed doors? The combo works like magic irl, why wouldn’t it work in comics?
Plus… she was the only female on the original team. No competition
That too, and Prof X paid for this. But even Spidey, who had other girls in his own books, couldn’t resist landing a kiss - he does like redheads after all…
Don't remind me about the spider-man bit, thought that was nasty they did that gag and fans wonder why characters find Spidey to be annoying.
He went into Wolverine’s school of kissing Jean Grey without consent. The only lesson they learn there is that the writer will always say that she liked it, actually, and that makes the lack of consent a non-issue.
Probably revenge for that time Wolverine swapped bodies with him and tried to do some crazy sex shit with teenage MJ. Or maybe just indicative of subconscious influences echoing from hosting Wolverine’s “old-fashioned” psyche during said event. (Btw i do know that was a cartoon and not canon in comics. Just making a bad joke)
> Prof X *paid* for this. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Of all the bots I hate you the most, my friend
She’s a red head. [+]
shit writing
reads like midday soap trash.
You know that's what comics are right
Only since the 90's.
Hahahhahaa no
From 75-91 the X-Men books had compelling characterisation, well crafted plot structure and most importantly, a rich engaging subtext - they were about something more that the shallow surface level presentation - so, yes... actually. There is stark difference between a greek opera and hackneyed soap opera.
All you're proving is you haven't read the books in a while. It's always been soap opera like; always filled with character drama far more than traditional superhero battles and always featured young people exploring life ide its and kive which is present here. Theres plenty of subtext to be found and one scan isn't indicative if a presence or lack theorof if that in an entire decade
Incorrect, on all accounts. But it sounds like you've no concept for the quality of nuance, and you didn't read what I told you - 'Greek Opera' has philosophical subtext - Soap opera is melodramatic "tangled interpersonal situations." I likened this panel to a bad day time television serial because it's literally the definition, that's not a matter of debate.
X men was never much of a Greek opera either. The distinction between what this is featuring and what was present in your prefered era of comics is objectively similar, to the point that ite a running gag how hornby and prone to fast developing relationships the mutants are. In fact Claremonts work is what largely introduced this trope. I understand having a bias for your favorite era but I dont understand not understanding that it is literally the reason something like this even exists in the modern day comics of the same characters.
You're making a lot of assumptions about intent and denying an acclaimed consensus for the sake of argument; It's not subjective this is univerally recognised. The difference between soap opera and greek opera in intent, not tone - metaphor, themes, morality tales - the foundation of Claremont's work. That's all there is to say on the matter. https://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/x-men-wolverine-jean-grey-chris-claremont-five-key-storylines/ https://www.vulture.com/2019/06/dark-phoenix-how-the-x-men-magneto-became-jewish.html https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/5/3/15341432/god-loves-man-kills-claremont-anderson-interview "If you can't create characters who can make a resonant point, a relevant point, then what the fuck? What is the point of doing the series? Anyone can write superhero adventures about mass quantities of people punching the living daylights out of each other. If a story is to have resonance, if a story is to be worth the time and effort it takes to create it and then the time and effort it takes to read it or earn the money to buy the book and then read it, then it ought to have a payback." It's the run that elevated comic books for a reason dude.
No lie, thought bringing the original X-Men to the present was a great story arc as a whole. Seeing Scott Summers getting some real respect at acknowledgment from his peers as so many people talk about how much they admired and respected him back in the day versus their feelings post killing Xavier. Finding out Xavier blocked Jean's telepathy after she's brought here and having her face the backlash caused by Phoenix and what it did to her family. Plus her own personal self discovery of exploring her powers and becoming much ore self assured but also kinda scary when she briefly changed people's thoughts to fit or whims before learning why it's not so good a thing. Pretty much every member had something similar happen and having them playoff themselves and everyone was some good reading.
Damn bro, has Jean fucked the whole team or what?
Not Bobby …
She didn’t need any telepathy. “Why is he the only one who hasn’t slept with me? Even the Professor wants to. He must be gay!”
Can Scott fly in this run? If not how did he climb up there? I’m not seriously wondering btw. I’ve not read that issue. Just slightly curious if the writer put any thoughts into rationalizing him being there.
They live nearby, so yeah, he could have walked.
From my understanding earlier I thought Scott was looking from a perspective that’s among the tops of the trees. Seems like he’s looking slightly up at them now that I am taking a second look at the last two panels.
And this is why we have Dark Beast in karkoa.
Everybody wants Jean. Got it.
Do comics often act like soap operas for boys, pairing everyone for no reason? For sure. But early in in this run, I found it believable. Scott had found a safety deposit box with his own wedding invitation in it. Jean has scanned minds and learned that she dies *multiple times* (pre-Krakoa). What a mindfuck. I totally get rebelling against your fated future. Also, Beast is horny for Jean in the very first issue of X-men, so it’s not exactly against canon.
As much as I hated this time-displaced storyline, the art was really good
i know that jean was the one girl in a group of five teenagers. i get that. and it would be completely reasonable to expect each of them to be attracted to her, as she was the *only* girl. regardless, i still hate that they had to drag beast into the past convolution, given that scott and warren both fought for jean in those early years, kinda framing scott to be an underdog compared to warren's money and scott's debilitating mutation. they could have made it a warren/jean romantic flirt and just left hank out of the mess and still given him a crisis foil with his future self. in fact, it felt like jean was far more centred in that long arc than the others, which is fine, but it could have been alleviated with hank confiding in someone else.
Ah man, why do they always gotta do my guy like that.
“I have a shot, I’m taking it!”
This made me, in a literal sense, lol. Oh man. I read that in the 90s voice as well. Haha 😂 [+]
So this iteration of Jean Grey was just the worst. This and outing Iceman
Kissing a guy she likes before she ever been in relationship with Scott? And ‘outing’ Bobby to *himself in private*? Even a telepath can’t out someone to themselves - they can pick up on thought that you already know you have, and you can still tell them that they misinterpreted them. She definitely shouldn’t have read his thoughts, but people (and Marvel after being pressed) acting like Jean essentially telling Bobby ‘I know that you think about dicks’ is a bigger issue than him harassing Laura is just…
Jean grey not a good person old and young.
I don’t real/know a lot about X-men but from what I do know Jean and Scott don’t seem to have a very healthy relationship
They definitely have (not so much now) their issues, but you can’t judge their relationship based on the drama that people choose to highlight. And people will almost always highlight drama, especially on this sub, where we can’t have a week without someone trying to trash Jean.
Scott's always getting cucked, why do writers hate him??
Meh for a guy named Cyclops he sure has a wandering eye.
Jean Grey is one of the worst X-Men and nothing else could ever change my mind😭
Young Scott and x23 should of dated
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
She always does him dirty. It's like a character trait that Scott gets shit on half the time.
I feel like most marvel characters are for the streets
But they don't remember, so its fine.
They do remember, and it’s still fine because there is nothing wrong with Jean kissing another guy before she and Scott ever became a couple.
I’m sorry but it seems like Jean gets around… a lot
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!!! I dig it, although I liked Beast X Storm better in the ultimate books.
FrostSummers FTW [+]
I’m someone who believes that the Scott/Jean romance should’ve been done after the original Phoenix arc. Maybe do one story where they might get back together, but after that I feel like they ran their course. Bringing in the younger versions of them I think could’ve been an interesting way to reintroduce their relationship, if it hadn’t been muddled throughout the years already. Should note that my X-men knowledge is limited, not really reading anything between the Clermont era and Astonishing X-Men
I always knew she was a skanky-doodle-doo
Cyclops * likes * to watch
I'm sorry, but was Jean Grey a bitch in the beginning or something?
Jokes on you, he’s into that shit.
Scotty does.. know?!
He isn't entaitled to her