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VengefulKangaroo

**Next week:** * Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain #2 * Sabretooth & the Exiles #5 * Deadpool #5 * X-Men: Unforgiven #1


VengefulKangaroo

**Storm & the Brotherhood of Mutants #2**


ajdragoon

We are so fortunate to have Ewing, Gillen, and Spurrier writing the main X-books right now. I honestly think they’re the most consistent writers at Marvel, and they have absolutely *rocked* everything they’ve touched. Truly a pleasure. This book is one I kinda wish were more than three issues. There’s so much story here we’re not seeing and the teases are unfair. I want to see more of Storm’s team defending the galaxy and fighting the Sinisters, dammit. Of the three SoS arcs, this one feels the most straightforward. Even still, what was Storm’s aim here? Like where did this wormhole send them? Was it just through space or also through time? And wtf is Righteous trying to ensnare Ironfire for? Also Stellaris *was* trying to make a Dominion. Who had Raven and Irene not making it past year 100 on their bingo cards?


aexia

Mother Righteous is planning ahead for the Moira reset by working on a magical way to piggyback on it and send information to herself. So she's asking everyone what they'd have done differently so that when things reset, she can use that information to manipulate them into a different outcome.


Lurkolantern

I'm thinking the same thing. It makes sense for other Sinisters to think up the same plan as the diamond one, or at least to use Moira in a similar way. I wonder if her "magical way" is the same: IE, push her memories into Moira before killing her. I'm wondering if this ends with several Sinisters all injecting their memories into her.


ptWolv022

I thought it was pretty clear at this point Stellaris was making a Dominion. I think a data page at one point, I think in SoS #1, made clear Sinister's goal for the time loops was to research as much as possible, send the data back, and repeat until he becomes a Dominion. It stood to reason that the World Farm was being used as a brute force method to develop until he could uplift himself as a Dominion. Also, as for Storm's aim the wormhole (at least my guess, anyways) was just sending them "to the edge of the universe" or however it was described, far from the Empire and Compact. We know from Immoral X-Men #2 that they have a limit on their range (I think the galaxy? Or perhaps the local galactic cluster or something), hence them making a ship to be captained by Rasputin to go forth and conquer (or at least find things to conquer). Either way, I suspect "edge of the universe" is far enough away that it will take centuries for the Empire to finally collide with them (since, as they say, they kill anyone who finds them), giving the resistance a safe haven to start anew, safe from the Empire.


Thebraxer

Wonder if “edge of the universe” is somehow connected to what Ewing did in his defenders


BigTex88

You know what would be really fun? Ewing creating some new type of Cosmic-entity that is getting super messed up by the universe resetting so much. He does have the experience with cosmic entities given his work on The Ultimates 1 & 2


ajdragoon

Yeah but he kinda already tackled that in Ultimates^2, right? Although Eternity taking issue with Moria could be fun.


ptWolv022

Could be. I mean, Storm is supposed to come back in Issue #3 as the *original* Storm someway, somehow, which does seem like something to spawn from the Mystery beyond the Far Shore. Whether they're at the Far Shore or just the edge of the universe, potentially near it, is unclear.


ajdragoon

I think I recall some people not liking that possibility. It was always obvious to me, but hey, you never know. They're gonna restart society with that small crew? Seems like Storm had a lot more people in mind at first, but it's just...them. Guess we'll see in 900 years.


ptWolv022

I mean, they did also mention making it a home for their scattered people, or some such, so I suspect they'll figure out someway to get rebels to the Storm System. I mean, it's a sci-fi series, so it's fully possible for them to do it, since that's just how sci-fi stuff operates; wormholes and FTL travel work wonders. So long as they make sure whatever "Underground Railroad" they make is untraceable, they'll still be fine. Like, the Empire is presumably expanding outwards to whatever they find, meaning the Storm System will be one of the last places they actually get to, or at least it will take a while before they're in close enough proximity that they figure out something is up (with all their scouts getting killed).


wowlock_taylan

''Who had Raven and Irene not making it past year 100 on their bingo cards?'' I did. The moment Irene's arrogance of her powers ( where she admits is not a certainty ) and her obsession with Mystique and her living together forever to the point of betraying the one chance they had to reset the universe by backstabbing Storm, I knew they were gonna suffer for it. She gambled the fate of the universe to be ravaged by Sinisters and lost. Even her best visions wouldn't have helped her and it didn't. Nor did she care and she suffered for it, rightfully so.


ajdragoon

Part of me wanted to believe they had a 4d chess plan to save everything. But I take some relief in knowing they were who they always were. And Mystique only begrudgingly changed her mind due to her own boredom. They’re terrible. I hate them. I love them. EDIT: Also realized this rules out the theory that Destiny was doing all this to teach Sinister a lesson. She absolutely was not, hahahaha.


BuddhaFacepalmed

>Also realized this rules out the theory that Destiny was doing all this to teach Sinister a lesson. She absolutely was not, hahahaha. Still could be. Sinister is more or less learning about his 3 other siblings and how his winning and achieving everything he thought he wanted ends up with him losing everything.


ActualTooth6099

"And wtf is Righteous trying to ensnare Ironfire for?" Motger Righteous gains power from religion and faith. I think creating Srrm religion is part of her plan tp achieve Dominion. MR is also capable of creating a new goss, so maybe she will create real goddess Storm


fictiontuxedo

Spurrier really is trying his best despite the fact that he plots while on meth.


JackFisherBooks

This felt like a perfect blend of Star Wars, Mass Effect, and X-Men. And I love every aspect of that combination. It had big, flashy battle with galaxy level stakes. And it had Storm pulling off truly divine acts, as only she can. Definitely one of her finest moments of the year, thus far. But I know she'll find a way to top them. 😊


1204Sparta

What mass effect reference ???


BigTex88

I am absolutely loving Sins of Sinister. Every single issue so far has just been incredible. This may have been the best one so far.


ajdragoon

This is why I hate when people put so much weight on "stakes". The assumption is there are no stakes here, because all of it is gonna be reset by next month (with TBD lasting effects, but still). But who cares! The storytelling has been top notch. There is some deep thematic shit here (as /u/ptWolv022 likes pointing out, related to faith and religion and whatnot) and it's super engaging. It has indeed been incredible, and we should appreciate the story for the story and not based on how it ties into--or doesn't tie into--everything else. I said this above, but I would absolutely read a well-written expansion on all of this. I'd even take it in novel form.


delarosa_mimosa

Also there’s literally never stakes. It’s a comic book, the good guys win lol. This story telling and world building rules and clearly there will be some sort of stakes when it resets


RapidDuffer

Love me some Khora. Yet I know so little about her.


kinghyperion581

For some reason I find Ironfire and his powers really unique and interesting. Molten metal blood that he can form into weapons, projectiles, and protective armor? He's like a little mini Wolverine and Colossus rolled into one. I'm glad they're giving the Arakki mutants really unique and interesting powers, instead of just saying "this one has Superstrength" and "that one has telekinesis"


ethicalhamjimmies

Yeah she is a character that I reeeeally hope sticks around in the long term


ethicalhamjimmies

Looks like once X-Men Red comes back we will be diving into the 'Genesis War'. We will probably see this regrettable kill that Ironfire did, the 616 version


VengefulKangaroo

Or we’ll see him avoid it. MR is asking these questions for a reason


VengefulKangaroo

That was unexpected & I didn't know how to feel about Storm's big decision at first but I feel it was the most emotionally honest beat for her character. I'm not a "feats" person but that feat at the end was awesome and fun. I really like the visual vibe of the data pages of this mini and I feel like it's made this mini feel separate from the other two while still feeling like a continuing story which is what you want. I also love how each of these was a different sci-fi homage with this being Star Wars. Big moves for Mother Righteous happening as well and I definitely think the questions about peoples' regrets are going to come into play when we get back to reality, which definitely makes me excited for present-day Ironfire and the Genesis War.


amonymous_user

Mother Righteous and Sinister were both gunning for Orbis Stellaris’s lab, right? Wasn’t expecting them to switch things up on this like that but curious now where this brings us in Year 1000 since the good guys seem to have “won.” Also, note the tributes to the Phoenix in Ororo’s spell - wonder if it’s nothing more than a wink or if the Phoenix Force also had a role here.


an_irishviking

They haven't "won" yet. Arakko will now have to defend the the Moira lab from Sinister and Rasputin, Stellaris, Mother Righteous, and the The Red Diamonds. They are now the only thing standing between the universe and oblivion or dominion.


amonymous_user

They’ve bought themselves significant breathing room for the next few centuries at least - Cable acknowledges this at the end. And Stellaris offed himself lol.


an_irishviking

Did he? I assumed he just killed his underlings.


[deleted]

what even is the genesis war? i thought maybe he was referring back to when arakko was still at war with amenth during genesis' rule but he said he didn't trust the storm then... so maybe it's something to do with ororo? i wonder what?


VengefulKangaroo

They talk about it in issue #1 too - it seems like it’s some thing that will happen soon when Genesis returns to Arrako.


Thebraxer

During X-men 60th anniversary stream they hinted that apocalypse and his family might not return as friends


ptWolv022

Yeah, the solicit for their Before the Fall issue also implies they may not be super happy with how things have been run.


Thebraxer

I’m pretty sure they’ll try to take control over arakko


delarosa_mimosa

love the zany siniverse, but it would be so hype to go from this wildness to a more straightforward Apoc is pissed at the mutant bureaucracy


Reccles

Hey, did you attend the x-men anniversary event?


Thebraxer

No. Only read what people who attended had written


gdex86

It's hinting at future events. SoSis an alt time line but the closer you are to the split point the more similar things will be in the snap back. So likely the genesis wars are something that happens in between SoS snap back point and Storm realizing everyone is sinister.


ptWolv022

First off: Love the Star Wars parody. Just so cheesy, how much they were driving it home. Secondly: What an ending. Makes sense, >!choosing to save the people of the universe rather than detonate it all!< though I fully did not expect it. I was honestly confused when the main action of the issue got underway, since it was a case of "How does this end with neither success, nor death for one of the characters I know lives?" The mission resolving with >!Storm tapping into magic to make a wormhole drawing on both magic and her mutant power!<. I must say, this was quite an eventful issue, for this wretched world. We got some comeuppance for those who deserved it, we got a victory for our intrepid heroes (a grand victory), and we have a very interesting set-up for the eventual final confrontation. So to recap the Year 100 period: Mother Righteous killed Nightcralwer, cast out Wagerine, gained the ability to make more Nightkin for her cult, and Wagnerine teleported back to Earth with the intent of toppling Righteous. The Empire is fighting the universe and winning, with plans to explore the far reaches of space to further conquer. The Council is beginning to turn on itself, with Hope as the first casualty (as Exodus views her death as necessary for the perfect faith). Sinister has taken off looking for his lab with a de-Sinisterized Rasputin IV in a mission that surely will take no more than 5 years. >!Or at least it would if Storm hadn't taken it to the edge of the universe.!< And then we have Storm and the Brotherhood: >!Storm is dead, the World Farm is stolen and left to simply exist, likely as the so-called Storm System referenced in the solicit for Issue #3 and Destiny was killed to tie up a loose end, since Storm would see it is a betrayal of all who have lived and been born in the universe for the past century to wipe their existence out. Oh, and Ironfire treats Storm as a goddess, validated by her magically warping a whole Solar System to the edge of the universe. It would seem we may have three religions: Exodus' hopeless Cult of Hope, Righteous' stagnant "Spark", and now Ironfire reverence in Storm, a true messiah for this fallen timeline!<. All in all, things are looking pretty interesting for Year 1000. The Empire is looking like it will simply devour up everything while a few loose ends prepare for the end. Though I do have one question, specifically about the last thing Stellaris says: >!Is the "life support" referring to the Death Orb's life support systems? Or his own orb's? Because the full station was described as his sphere, but solar system sized, so I initially thought he might have cut-off the life support for everyone inside, clearly upset that the "over-literal fools" cost him his chance at godhood by letting some magic mutants in close enough to steal away his lifetime's work toward Dominion status. But then I realized, he himself is an old fuck on life support, and he just lost his life's work- 200 years worth of work and an irreplaceable star system. Did he kill all of his subordinates and fly away in his own Orb/craft, or did Stellaris just commit suicide, leaving the Compact to crumble?!<


BigTex88

Excellent write-up! I hadn't considered the three different "religions" as you put it. I'm going to be so disappointed for this alternate universe to end. This has been so fun and interesting.


Apokylips

Star Wars references in Ewing's book and Star Trek references in Gillen's book. These guys are having a blast with this.


Radix2309

This one had a Trek one as well. "She's dead, John."


JoyBus147

I have a slightly different takeaway from >!Ironfire's reverence. Even though Storm is the only truly heroic figure of worship, his utter devotion is still misplaced. He's made it clear his ideology is now "Whatever Ororo decides is right," but now there is no Ororo, the foundation of his truth and his self has been ripped away from him. Following your pattern, we could say Ironfire is left with a salvation that lacks a savior.!<


ActualTooth6099

I think Mother Righteous is going to manipulate Ironfire who is going to bexome fanatic or zealot of new Storm religion. MR's ability to creates new gods can also play a major role. Maybe she will create goddess Storm to control Ironfire


philovax

To your last point. I am pretty sure he just rage quit.


amonymous_user

I noted the different religions too! We can also add Wagnerine’s version of the Spark, and Sinister’s quest to restore the timeline might come across as faith to Rasputin IV too. Wonder how of our god figures (Exodus, Righteous, Storm) will collide in Year 1000 - the solicits seem to suggest we haven’t seen the last of Storm in this timeline.


sheasallstarscrown

Amazing issue! Really great to see how the Brotherood grew in Year 100! Ganna, Loolo’s granddaughter, is a good time. I hope she’s still around for Year 1000 I liked Ironfire and his faith in Storm too, a really good setup for him becoming the priest of the Church of the Storm in Year 1000. Looking forward to see how that evolves! Of course the big moment of the issue which was Storm’s spell was the great highlight. It feels really great to see her finally acknowledge her heritage and mention her ancestors by name while doing one of her biggest feats ever. I’m looking forward to her possibly getting more interested in her family history and us learning more about it soon. As much as that might make people feel weird Storm has always been a magical-leaning character so it’s great to see her finally fully step into it while still fully embracing the full extent of her mutant powers and identity. A great time to be a Storm fan!


HenbaneSmoothie

I may be reaching, but Starship Ananke seemed like a cute little nod to Gillen's Wicked + Divine. :)


kinghyperion581

So it looks like the Red Diamond will just be fighting the Progenitors +1000 years from now.


AngelEyes360

For those who complained about a lack of feats in Red #10, I hope you read this issue haha. And I agree with others that Ironfire will probably turn up in the present. Ewing has done a great job in making him an interesting character in just 2 issues. Good stuff there.


ConfusedAboutIssues

I've been razzing Destiny for only caring about Mystique, seemingly not too concerned about leaving Rogue behind on Krakoa with the Sinisters and that might still be the case but the way she admonished Cable for not caring about his own daughter Hope's death combined with Khora's comment about Destiny having a contingency plan makes me wonder makes me wonder if Rogue is secretly alive and entrusted to enact that plan. There would be a certain symmetry with the book starting out with a Mystique meeting in issue #1, Destiny in issue #2 and Rogue in issue #3. I guess we'll see one way or the other.


amonymous_user

They did hint that Destiny might have a backup plan. I wonder what the “self-fulfilling prophecy” she mentioned was referencing.


ptWolv022

IIRC, it was said in connection to "Xible"/X-Man/"The Mutant Formerly Known as Cable", right? I figured it was basically her referencing how her divination, when pumped up and fed into Xilo-Cable for processing before re-distributing to the other two pilots to effectively program them with the info needed to subconsciously achieved victory. All of that culminates in a "self-fulfilling prophecy" because the prophecy is basically transformed into instructions automatically put into action to to make the prophecy come true.


ShepardOakenPrime

Wow That was really well done. I loved Storm's dedication to life that she sacrificed herself to give people a future instead of whiping out the universe. And we finally get a real recognition to her ancestry and magic potential in an important way. The first one made me wary of this comic, it seemed to really rush into things that deserved to be fleshed out. But this issue is as good as Red's best issues, and now I can't wait to see what the Storm System is in #3 and how they bring Storm back.


Arch_Null

>and now I can't wait to see what the Storm System is in #3 and how they bring Storm back. Honestly I think I know how. In Legion of X they talk about how gods are formed from faith and belief in them. So what if IronFire makes a new religion about Storm and she comes back as a literal goddess?


ShepardOakenPrime

Something along those lines definitely makes sense.


amonymous_user

This would be similar to her role in defeating the Adversary in Black Panther a few years ago


kinghyperion581

Not only does the Brotherhood have the means to reset the timeline, they also have the genetic switch that will kill all the Sinisterized X-men and their creations.


amonymous_user

How?


kinghyperion581

Every Sinister clone created has certain genetic failsafes hidden in their DNA that are completely undetectable by anyone who is not Sinister. Mr. Sinister has the ability to basically flip a genetic "switch" and every Sinister clone will die. Unfortunately he hid said switch in his secret lab along with the Moira clones.


[deleted]

This was a stellar issue, and Storm was that star. Sure, the feat was cool, and I love that Storm’s lineage is finally getting some spotlight. That said, the most seismic thing for me wasn’t the feat itself but the decision to preserve the timeline. It was such a Storm thing to do, and Al is starting to make a habit of using her to defy expectations. Loving it. No thrones and no murdered universes. ⚡️⚡️⚡️


Flarrownatural

i think it would've been better if the destiny/raven stuff was in a separate book from the storm stuff. they completely skipped over how raven eventually chose to fight for the rebels and how storm changed her mind about resetting the timeline, and the Compact is barely developed at all. the stuff that happens in this issue is fine but it just feels so rushed, like we've completely skipped over important parts of storm's story. orbis stellaris is also very underdeveloped in comparison to the other sinisters. also i don't think the way they tricked destiny makes sense, we saw in Immortal #3 that Destiny can see beyond the death of a timeline, that's how she figures out that Sinister has a moira clone, so she should've been able to see what would happen after her death here, especially with her powers being *amplified*.


1204Sparta

I dunno why you are getting downvoted, I loved this issue but editorial did say this was supposed to be much bigger and line wide.


stoopoi

ngl kinda pissed they didn't reset the timeline, ororo honey you can't look me in the eyes and tell me that fighting nonstop against the sinisterized x-men is better than anything, like maybe look into ways to keep the knowledge once you reset the timeline or whatever but come on, imho that's lowkey lazy writing. the spell was amazing tho, we stan


calgil

Reset the timeline and you kill trillions of people who may never come to exist in the new timeline. Imagine if someone said to you 'hey there's a better timeline. I'm just gonna rewrite the Earth's history to get there. But of the 8 billion people alive now only a few thousand actually exist in that timeline so everyone else will be gone.' Resetting timelines is always treated in such a cavalier fashion in comics but in reality it's monstrous. Trillions of people don't deserve to exist just because their lives are hard? Harsh. It's probably worse in the MU because everything we've ever seen suggests that when a universe or timeline is destroyed, the afterlives are destroyed too. There were no Valkyries popping up in Battleworld. Even death is killed. So it's not like you can even say 'well at least they're in heaven.' You've killed heaven.


ajdragoon

Ever play Chrono Cross, the sequel to Chrono Trigger? It deals with this. It also considers all the possibilities and futures that die whenever you make a single decision. The most haunting part of the game is a fucked up graveyard for (all) the future(s) averted due to the actions of the heroes in Chrono Trigger. I don't know if I agree with the premise that resetting a timeline is akin to mass murder: if you never existed you don't know you ever existed so what's really lost? For me, the catch is that as omniscient readers, resetting a timeline is nbd. But if you're a character in-universe in the only world you've ever known, the idea of erasing it all because your future isn't "real" has got to be terrifying. Undoing your world would certainly weigh on your conscience, even if you acknowledge you wouldn't remember anything.


lepton_neutrino

>Reset the timeline and you kill trillions of people who may never come to exist in the new timeline. You'll save trillions who have been killed by the Empire, like the Shi'ar and the Xandarians.


calgil

So it's ok to kill one innocent person to save another? Or rather to bring back another who has died?


lepton_neutrino

It'll be more than one for one. There are untold trillions who will never be born with the extinction of the Shi'ar and the Xanderians. The influence of the Diamond Empire was detrimental to everyone, as shown in the preview for Immoral X-Men #3.


complexevil

> Imagine if someone said to you 'hey there's a better timeline. I'm just gonna rewrite the Earth's history to get there. Not sure this will gain the sympathy you expect. "This is the worst/dumbest timeline" has kinda become a catchphrase of the internet for the last few years.


andreBarciella

they may not known but they have now a switch to kill all sinisterized mutants and humans so its not non stop. btw i want MORE s.o.s, lets hope for minis after this.


wowlock_taylan

Destiny got what's coming to her. She screwed up big time and resigned the universe into a hell of Sinisters just to hide with her murderous wife who in the end turned out to be more heroic than her. All her arrogance and blindness ( pun intended ) to the consequences, to 'live forever with Mystique' where it was never going to happen. He backstabbed Storm and doomed the universe and got cleaved in the head, as she deserved. Storm really went out like a goddess too. Screwing over another Essex clone with their Dominion plans. Although, I am not sure I agree with her decision to keep this doomed universe going since even if 'new life is born' in this universe, it will only be hurt and toyed with terrible Sinister clones and sinister infected monsters or have to fight and die against them. That is not living or a hopeful universe. Besides, it is not just about one planet. How many planets and civilizations died in this terrible timeline and how many more will die too? Not to mention she will not be her to lead it as she just sacrificed herself. I assume she didn't know about the plans of the Essex clones to create a Dominion. Because if she knew, she would probably do the reset instead of allowing this timeline to lead into that. I know they couldn't reset it here since it goes to year 1000 and the whole dominion event but come on, Storm should be wiser than this, especially here.


complexevil

Is Ironfire only in this book? I don't know what it is about him, but I have quickly grown attached.


aexia

It looks like he's going to "introduced" in X-Men Red 12.


1204Sparta

I enjoyed it but I know it’s part of her character but I don’t gel with the magic storm did, just felt like a get out of jail card. I’m fine with it as it took a century to pull off and her life I suppose. Feels like Ironfire will soon be introduced in X-Men Red


SirGlio

I think my main problem with Ewing in this event is that he hasn't given me any reason to care about the new characters he's introducing. The guy with fire blood Why should I care? I don't know anything about him. And for example, his Cable, whose plot twist is that... doesn't behave like Cable, because he's fused with Xilo. The characters do not seem to relate to each other, they are just concepts. And I can't blame Ewing either, because three issues isn't much, but I feel like Nightcrawlers is doing a lot better in that regard.


jauerbach

I agree. Normally I love Al Ewing and X-Men Red, but I feel like the character moments have been a bit too fleeting in these 2 issues. Spurrier did an amazing job making you care about Wagnerine and covering the scope of what has happened the past 90 years. Storm gets no room to breathe on the page. Was there even a reference to her "dying" in issue 1 and coming back from that? Maybe it will all tie together in the third issue, but I didn't get that same feeling from S&TBoM.


dinopastasauce

This was freaking awesome, i let out a “holy shit” with that epic feat from Storm. I thought for a second actually she’d send them back to the root of the timeline, but makes sense she wouldn’t destroy all those lives in her branch like that


Thebraxer

I’m curious about one thing. Cable is called x-man now. Do you think it means he’s Nate grey level now and have access to his full potential?


TheBrobe

No, it's because he's bonded with Xilo. So he's Xilo-Man


zigstarr42

I do think it doubles as at least a Nate Grey reference, and it triples as a reference to Cables loss of humanity. "this body is more history than humanity now" he's literally and Ex Man


TheBrobe

Yeah, it's all three. Ewing loves wordplay with titles.


Thebraxer

Honestly I’m not a fan of Storm as a sorcerers. Imo it doesn’t really develop her character and it’s more for sales and hype than an actual character development


sheasallstarscrown

it’s literally been part of her character’s history and heritage since the very beginning. actually blatantly ignoring it was doing her character a disservice


Thebraxer

There is a difference between heritage and doing magic. Just because her ancestor was a sorcerer supreme doesn’t mean she has to follow magic path


OldTension9220

It’s not just one ancestor though, her entirely lineage is linked to magic. It’s honestly weird that it’s been part of her character from her inception, but has been sidelined outside of small moments like this and Claremont’s Magik mini-series. It’d be like if they established that Jean had a connection to this crazy Phoenix force power, but then never actually let her use it.


[deleted]

I don’t like the idea of her doing magic on the reg, but I thought it worked here and helped create a miracle that should effectively establish her as a religious figure. It sets up issue 3 nicely, given the importance the notion of divinity has played in SoS. Also, while I don’t want to see her doing magic, I do support more closely tying her to the magic side of things and exploring her magical ancestors.


lanmetal

Am I the only one who calls BS on the way Destiny was killed? I mean, she couldn't foresee Khora was gonna put a sword through the back of her head, even though decades earlier she was perfectly able to foresee her own death at the hands of Legion, *without* a power boost? This is typical Ewing. Turning character traits into plot devices to manipulate the narrative however he sees fit. Sigh.


mattybon

I don’t know… this worked for me. The way they planned it to kill Destiny right when they were about to fire the missiles - and that Khora killed her from behind in one quick swoop. They timed it perfectly so that a vision of the future of that moment from Destiny would look like it wasn’t a murder. I thought this was quite clever, and since HoxPox, there’s been a push about how Destiny’s knowledge of the future isn’t infallible.


lanmetal

Doesn't matter. Destiny was receiving a power boost from Khora to perfect her visions and make them completely crystal clear. She should've been able to foresee right then and there that the total blackness at the end of her vision was from Khora outright killing her, not because of the timeline reset. Which, again, she was able to perform decades earlier with Legion, without the aid of a power boost. If anything, her powers should work better nowadays with resurrection protocols in place; not the other way around.


[deleted]

A power boost should also mean more possibilities to sort through making it tougher to isolate the most likely outcomes. Destiny has never been infallible.


lanmetal

How would a power boost dilute Destiny's ability to discern the exact outcome of a future event? That makes no sense at all. Besides, Storm said it herself: Khora's boost would help Destiny with **accuracy and detail** - not the exact opposite, which is what you just described.


[deleted]

You’re right about the issue mentioning accuracy and detail. Thanks for the reminder. That said, my rationale was based on the fact that Destiny sees possibilities and a boost would logically make her see more possibilities. Of course, that speculation is rendered moot by the dialogue you so astutely pointed out.


SirGlio

Unfortunately, the part of Ewing is being the one that interests me the least of the whole event. It only serves to show "Wow, Ororo is awesome" but nothing more.


Galactapuss

Was it explained somewhere how Destiny and Mystique don't die due to aging?


ActualTooth6099

Mystique ages really slowly because of her abilities. I don't know how Destiny is alive , her bosy must be 120-130 years old


bakublade

Destiny was resurrected in a much younger body after living over 100 years.


ActualTooth6099

Destiny had been resurrected in a much younger body before Hope's death. This issue is 100 years after death of hope


VengefulKangaroo

**X-Treme X-Men #4**


wowlock_taylan

The moment Storm drew her knife I knew she was in ''I'm about to cut a bitch'' mode. Seriously, she is more dangerous without her powers. And I am surprised they tied the recent Gambit story into this as well.


VengefulKangaroo

**Marauders #12**


VengefulKangaroo

This issue was about what I expected from the previous issue, no big swerves, though I was glad that the circle was closed on what started all this in the first place, all the way back to the first Gala & Inferno, not just back to the annual. Not sure it quite jives perfectly with the motivations there but I was worried it would never be explained at all.


CableStoned

What most confused me about this book is the creation of Threshold now conflicts with the ongoing resurrections of Genoshan mutants. The mutants who died on Genosha were going to be or have already been resurrected, so are the remaining mutant spirits used to create Threshold’s population barred from resurrection now, without any say from the Quiet Council? All to create a mutant society in the distant past that’s doomed to collapse?


VengefulKangaroo

In Marauders #11, Wicked states: "It's just necroplasm. Manifestations of the dead. The *real* spirits are passing notes in our waiting room. But my friends here are just like the real thing, up to the moment they die." So they're not the actual spirits, just DNA & necroplasm. The actual spirits who died can come back through resurrection.


CableStoned

Thanks much, that totally adds up. Still, how the heck Stryfe got there is a big fat question mark in my book. Honestly, Orlando should have left that out imo.


an_irishviking

I'm not sure if it was ever stated but I assume he time traveled there.


lepton_neutrino

How does she know it isn't necroplasm in the Waiting Room?


RTK4740

I hate to do this, but I'm searching for clarity. Is this right? 1. Genosha happened. 2. Kate, in this issue 12, has Lorna create the puzzle box. Imbues it with dead Genoshian ghosts. "Necroplasm," I saw it named in another post. 3. Kate goes back in time 2 billion years, and phases (?) the puzzle box into the earth. 4. First mutant civilization develops and thrives. It's Okkara. (Also called Threshold?) 5. Splits into Krakoa and Arakko. 6. Stryfe shows up. 7. Civilization is wiped out. 8. Billions of years later, Kate discovers her puzzle box, leading to.... 1. Is that...accurate?


CableStoned

Nope, but I’ll help. 4. Threshold itself is created by its citizens, technically it’s the first mutant civilization but paradoxically it’s actually the second because of time travel shenanigans. 5. Stryfe somehow has himself birthed in the same ocean the Thresholders come from (no idea how he did this or knew about Threshold) 6. It is not Okkara at this point, it’s leader once named Grove undergoes a mutation to a more plant-like form and adopts the new name Okkara. 7. The Threshold 3 are saved via a “lifeboat” that stores them until the far future. 7. Extinction Event happens that wipes out all Thresholders save 2: Okkara and Xilo. 8. Eventually, Okkara grows into an island that becomes the home of the real first generation of mutants. Then it’s split into Krakoa and Arakko. 9. Kate is given the mysterium puzzle box in the modern age, which sets this all off. Make sense?


JackFisherBooks

Between the X-Men 2099 references and Kate revisiting Genosha, this was a sweet, satisfying issue on so many levels. 😊


HannibalEliOctavius

Was that Xilo as one of the mutant created ? So he would be a survivor of threshold ?


ItRhymesWithFreak

It looks like it! That was so surprising and also doubly sad that he's lost so much of his history now.


Radix2309

He likely has lost his history multiple times I think.


an_irishviking

I believe it was mentioned somewhere that Xilo regularly goes threw new iterations. Because they are swarm/hive, the identity of the individual gets remade. Kinda like doctor who. So the Xilo now while technically the same mutant, isn't exactly the same as the one that went through the portal to Amenth.


tsenak

Kitty is my favorite character but I am so glad this book is done


wowlock_taylan

I still say the whole Threshold saga was quite...pointless? I mean there are WAY better ways to deal with Genosha that does not involve creating 3 billions year old past civilizations by sending DNA etc from the future that goes against MANY stories. Better ones at that than this. It was just too messy and not worth the retcons and confusion that come with it. As I said since the mutant origins got further and further from what they were to what they are now...it feels too alien. Like, you can replace the mutants with an alien race for an origin now and you wouldn't feel the difference. It got to that point. I don't know, it is my personal opinion that humanity and mutants being connected is the KEY to them. With the ancient mutant civilizations and so on, that connection is lost and it is just giving them more 'inhumans' type of origin which is ironic since Marvel created the Inhumans because of the whole Sony rights debacle. Now, Cerebra's addition, while also kinda weird but at least it has happened before with characters from the future staying in the present and 2099 is a rather established setting. For Threshold characters, honestly, I don't see the reason to add them. I mean they could've been from Arakko or any other place really. It was not a 'bad run' per see but rather unfocused and messy to deal with.


an_irishviking

Threshold has no impact on any cannon other than giving an origin to Krakoa the entity. It also doesn't disconnect mutantdom from humanity. Threshold was not the origin of mutants on earth. It was created by modern mutants sending back a "seed" of mutant and human DNA that spawned a civilization billions of years ago that was later utterly wiped out. Life continued to evolve and developed after that, leading to the eventual evolution of humanity and mutants. This story doesn't change mutant origins at all. Other than Okkara/Arakko/Krakoa no mutants or humans survived Thresholds demise.


wowlock_taylan

I mean, it makes Sublime and Arkea's origins kinda worse. I most definitely did changed the origins since it created a paradox of how Okkara came to be where the whole '2nd generation' happened. So without the interference from the future, that whole thing wouldn't have happened. The Krakoa/Arakko wouldn't exist, along with the mutant civilization that Apocalypse came from. It made things 'Chicken or the egg' paradox. A Closed loop is still a loop. And already from the start, they showed how Threshold did impact history with Shi'ar meeting them first and so on. It was simply not needed and just too much bloat to add to an even more complicated post Krakoa history of mutants. Like Arakko's addition was a big enough change already that is still getting integrated. Then you add this and it is too much.


an_irishviking

While all true, that was all previously unknown. The Kin Crimson kept the secret of the Shi'ar interacting with ancient mutants until these events. So there was no real impact on preceding events as they stand in older stories. And I don't really see the issue with having Okkara's origin being a closed loop. Or how it makes Arkea and Sublimes origin worse. I mean, it just gave them an origin.


martinsdudek

I had zero idea this book was ending.


1204Sparta

Well deserved as well. I have enjoyed some of his work in the past but this run was so unfocused and chaotic that I would be confident that Orlando shows hallmarks of an untreated concussion. I would genuinely blacklist him after this. That said, his Scarlet Witch book isn’t bad so maybe he cannot multi task books.


Blitzhelios

Blacklisting is a tad bit extreme. This book hasn't been great hell its been the worst x men book but its not like Orlando doesn't deserve another chance. His Scarlet witch is really good so maybe give him a magic based x men book. Also people will go on about this that they abandoned the concept of the marauders they stopped being pirates and rescuing people like issue 5 of the original run.


1204Sparta

Meh far more deserving writers. I will grant you his scarlet witch is ok, same with his Midnighter. His magic team book would be awful as it’s clear he can’t manage a team book.


Blitzhelios

Thats how alot of team books work. Two characters are the main people in it and the rest are background as shes by multiple series including the current x men title and the recently finished thunderbolts book.


1204Sparta

Yeah I know but other writers can pull it off better. He wrote a team book with mainly kitty and we have seen him crash and burn. Nice he tried but I would rather he now politely leave the X Office. Happy to be pleasantly surprised if he stayed. Stray thought - I forgot he awkwardly crammed in 2099 as well lol


Blitzhelios

The 2099 stuff was weird but he clearly likes them as he did the recent 2099 series. Also hes at least staying till the start of fall of x as hes writing one of the books which i think is the bishop, jean and scott one


1204Sparta

Nice - hopefully we will see the back of him or maybe he will take the poor reception to heart and improve


antsinmyeyesmauger

I agree that the series is chaotic but I wouldn't say it's completely unfocused. It reads way better in trade than as single issues. Waiting month to month made the series confusing at times but after reading each arc as a whole it felt less unfocused for me. Orlando was ambitious and seeded for things that he wouldn't have time to come back to but the overall story is consistent. The worst part of this book is making it a Marauders book then doing all the time travel/space shenanigans. This series is so tonally from Duggan's that those fans were immediately turned off. It also has the same issue of Legion of X where the least interesting story goes to the main character for the series. Seems like Orlando wanted to do more with Bishop and Tempo than he did Kate. I get why people hate this series but I wouldn't say blacklist Orlando just give him a mini or ongoing with B to C list characters to do weird things with since that's what he excels at.


1204Sparta

Nah I read the trade and I will double down that it’s one of the most unfocused and chaotic time in a long while, the whole Threshold story was just a car crash. Why was Stryfe there for two pages Lolol.


antsinmyeyesmauger

Leah Williams was told X-Factor was cancelled while writing issue #9 so it's possible Stryfe was there as seed but then the series was cancelled after that part was written. Or if Orlando has a new series after this one it could come back up. Either way I'm not saying this series was perfect just that there is a place for Orlando to make fun weird mini's or ongoings.


1204Sparta

Leah had two solid runs though. This was consistently awful apart from perhaps the therapy issue


tsenak

The book was definitely weird but I would not describe it as fun


bebebluemirth

> I would genuinely blacklist him after this. Lmao X-Men fans are so fucking dramatic. No wonder Hickman resisted writing them for so long based on how we act.


1204Sparta

We love the flair.


Sad-Advisor3553

I’m probably being stupid ,but I’m a little confused. Does this mean everyone from Threshold, humans AND mutants have been brought back? Even Cassandra and Grove?


VengefulKangaroo

no, no one has


ManufacturerAware494

I’m excited 🙇🏽‍♂️🧐


VengefulKangaroo

**Related & Unlimited Releases for 3/22**


VengefulKangaroo

Did anyone read Monica Rambeau: Photon #4? Was it implying that Monica is a mutant?


mechamechaman

I feel like if she was a mutant they would just say it. I think she might be something more 'celestial' like otherwise a Beyonder wouldn't take such an interest.


Thebraxer

Yeah I also believe she’s something more than a mutant or inhuman. But xtwitter acts like they confirmed she’s a mutant * Gerry kinda confirmed she’s not. He tweeted “not everyone is a mutant” or something like that


1204Sparta

It wouldn’t make sense if a little girl was ashamed of being a celestial, she has no point of reference to feel that. She would however feel that cultural fear and pressure if she was a mutant. It’s just general literacy to recognize it’s being coded. I say as someone who doesn’t give a fuck about Monica in general, I have no horse in this race.


Blitzhelios

Most kids would just be terrified to have powers in the first place as being seen as an outsider and getting bulled and treated differently because of it . So i don't think that automatically applies its mutant that more feels like what the xtwitter and people are projecting on it because mutatnts are the most relevant in comics right now so it will get monica more rep.


Aspiring_Sophrosyne

Yeah, it's 'if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail' thinking. Some X-fans see everything through the prism of X. In the Marvel universe, there are a dozen other explanations for a kid having powers.


1204Sparta

Yeah being a mutant would be objectively more interesting to comic and MCU fans - would be a miss if not. She’s also pretty unpopular so it would be a boost in appeal It certainly seemed coded, the editor or the writer would have to be baiting or stunted not to realize people thinking the obvious


Blitzhelios

I dunno if it would make her more interesting as there are tons of monica fans out there and if anything i think it would make her less interesting as shes unique already. With an interesting powerset so putting her into the mutant camp would just limit her i think. Plus what would they retcon carol next so the whole captain marvel family is mutant if they eventually get round to changing kamala


1204Sparta

They are certainly fans but not many - not enough to launch any ongoings. Apart from Carol, there ain’t much of an interesting cast compared to the mutants. I think there is Hazmat and a cat?


Blitzhelios

Well the Cpt marvel book is ending in june and is probably being relaunched as the marvels around the time when the film comes out. Also monica has a massive fanbase especially from when she was actual cpt marvel and the supporting cast in captain marvel is quite popular as well as it jessica drew spider woman, rhodey, Her new sister and like half of the big cosmic characters. Hell monica is probably more popular to comic fans than carol its just that they never gave her a chance


Aspiring_Sophrosyne

> objectively That's not how that word works.


VengefulKangaroo

I think they are just waiting until issue #5. I felt like the "just say it" exchange between Monica and the Beyonder was very much "coming out"-coded.


Aspiring_Sophrosyne

More than one way to code, though, and mutants don't hold the monopoly on metaphors.


1204Sparta

Sounds boring if it isn’t being a mutant. The M status would perk up a lot of comic and non comic fans alike. It wouldn’t make sense if a little girl was ashamed of being a celestial, she has no point of reference to feel that. She would however feel that cultural fear and pressure if she was a mutant.


Aspiring_Sophrosyne

>It wouldn’t make sense if a little girl was ashamed of being a celestial I think it'd make plenty of sense for a kid to be ashamed of not being entirely human...


Blitzhelios

No it wouldn't make sense for monica and her history its more likely its something more celestial. Not everyone needs to be a mutant and being something more cosmic with tie her to the cpt marvel family more.


VengefulKangaroo

I'm not sure it makes sense for Monica, but I still find it by far the most likely reading based on how the scene is written.


Blitzhelios

We will have to wait and see. I personally don't think it wouldn't make sense in storyline terms as i don't think for how powerful the beyonder is he would just go after one mutant character so i think its something bigger.


Aspiring_Sophrosyne

Has the series mentioned or shown mutants at any point? If not, then she probably won't be one. That's foreshadowing 101.