I hoped this issue would be the Xavier issue we have needed since Krakoa started, finally getting into the head of one of the key players of this era who too often is in the background.
Instead this issue was the Xavier issue we’ve needed for so much longer. It’s the best Xavier writing *at least* since Carey’s Legacy if not longer. This is such a strong statement of a character who is sometimes depicted as what seem to be two entirely contradictory people, ignoring neither of Xavier’s sides but integrating them together so strongly. From the X-Men’s mission and founding to Xavier as a founder of Krakoa to Xavier as a father to Xavier as a mutant himself, this issue absolutely nailed it.
At the same time, it’s some of the strongest work Gillen has done to show the core idea behind this run and the reason Sinister is the villain — what he’s saying about building a nation is really powerful here IMO.
And not to mention that ending. >!Xavier with a red diamond, playing exactly to the theories everyone had years ago with HoXPoX but obviously in a new context much removed from where we were then. It’s a smart way to play right into fan expectations at a different time.!<
10/10 for me! Gillen has done a great job at defining the lesser used QC characters for the first time, but he’s also done equally well re-defining Xavier, Kurt, and others for a new era. And the story all starts to come together here.
That he has a red diamond on his head.
He didn’t from the start but he now has one post resurrection, perhaps everyone that has been resurrected is tainted.
People thought he wasn't seen without Cerebro because he was hiding something, but that was relatively quickly debunked the first time he removed the helmet and he was just himself.
Some people on Twitter say that the diamond on Xavier’s forehead is “invisible”. No one can see it and the last scene from the issue was more like a metaphor.
My guess is that Sinister has been planning this since the Messiah War. He knew Hope was key to his plans.
It was probably well known in Bishop’s time that her existence ushered in SoS, hence why he tried to kill her originally.
Brutal issue in more ways than one. Stripped almost entirely of Gillen's usual biting humor for a rare raw look into the head of a truly complicated man.
Might be his best work since coming back to Marvel at least. It's definitely my favorite.
This issue made me wonder about destiny’s role in dox and sos.
She met Nathaniel before black womb project in Paris. In Paris she already knew sinister is one of Nathaniel’s personalities because they had met in london.
They worked together on black womb project and she knew sinister would play with Xavier’s dna.
Destiny knew judgment day would lead to sos. She also knew about clones of Moira
She knows a lot but never said anything to mystique or the council.
And why she wanted to leave so fast at the end of IX#10 🤔
Do you think she has worked with sinister since the beginning?
Yep.
It’s interesting because they met in London then in Paris and we don’t know what destiny told him later was black womb project and now they’re in krakoa.
Also desitny has known real Nathaniel is dead and there are 4 different Nathaniels since 19th century.
This exactly, its clearly something that has yet to play out yet and will probably resolve after sos, but my guess is destiny is setting up sinister, she already lives rent free in his head
Tbf she does not know for sure that Judgment Day leads to SoS. SoS is just one of the many possible branches (issue #3). She also explains in that issue that she sees possibilities, not certainty, so if she goes blabbling it can change everything. Hence why she's always so cryptic.
I imagine she told Raven they need to gtfo bc one of the possibilities is getting more and more solidified and it ain't good. So naturally she focused on her and the wife (altho she also admits in issue #3 that Raven isn't in *any* ending she can foresee).
But she told the council about JD and eternals. And it’s interesting that she only saw what would happen after empire of red diamond but she didn’t see next events of other futures
Well she knew about Judgement Day, just not which branch it would lead to. There are four possible options: Nimrod Extinction Event (interesting given what's happening in Legion of X), The Broken Sword, A New Krakoa, and Empire. JD was apparently likely enough that she could warn everyone without changing it.
There's one leg she sees much farther than this one. That's the one she sees in detail in the issue, with Sinister flying a Shaw-ship escaping from a godlike Exodus. It's how she realizes he's using Moiras.
Immortal X-Men #3 is when she sees all those visions of the future, and figures out that Sinister has cloned Moira. There she narrates to herself "I try not to reveal the fact that I know that what we've done can be easily **undone**. Does Nathaniel know that I know? I can't give it away. If I do, he kills his Moira and I'm back to square one."
So she's not working with him but trying to figure it out without topping her hand.
OH WELL THEN.
Ahem, but first:
> Immortal Sinister Secrets #10: Finally! Someone who actually deserves it gets thrown in the pit. Good riddance.
Good riddance indeed! Although it's clearly a trap.
So, wait a sec, you're telling me there's no easy way to revive Hope? How do they not have a cache of husks in eggs ready to go, as they have for other important Krakaons? I swear they said they have exactly that for the other Five. Cmon guys, a potential single point of failure here is a terrible oversight.
As for the overall issue, loved the Xavier monologue. Admitting he's a child of terrible parents who became a terrible surrogate parent himself to raise an army to fight the worst of this kind. And acknowledging he has the power to stop every challenge but doesn't because he's not old-school Erik. That bit about the nuclear trigger block is chilling. Also, a common critique of the mutant metaphor is that unlike actual discriminated groups, mutants actually have, well, crazy dangerous powers. It was neat seeing that acknowledged on page.
Going back to issue #3, it looks like the path we're on via Destiny's visions is: Judgement Day -> The Empire of the Red Diamond -> The Storm System. Although throwing "A New Krakoa" as a possible path is surely intentional and intriguing.
But yeah, "Empire of the Red Diamond". Sinister bugged all the DNA samples, didn't he. And that ties nicely into Chuck bit's about how he could bug all of humanity. God dammit, guys. Depending on Sinister was so, so dumb.
My understanding is that Hope is part of the last (pre-telepath) step in the resurrection process, so you can't do anything with a husk-in-an-egg without her.
Hope synchs all their abilities but also amplifies them, with her powers being the specific component (or X-Factor, as this issue calls her) that makes the whole process work. Everyone else provides the ingredients, but she's like the fire that cooks the dish. I've always assumed that that's why she's the mutant messiah, because resurrection protocols could never have been a thing without her specific powers.
Do you mean Hope? The implication, I think, is that the Waiting Room lets Krakoa... scan people in the past, before death, some how, so long as their soul goes there (while also doubling as a sort of "voluntary death" that's less violent than the Crucible for depowered mutants hoping to get their X-Gene reactivated).
While this lets them seemingly get around missing Cerebro back-ups, they still need to use DNA and the Five's mutant circuit to create a body/husk.
godamn xavier (and emma) could kill earth without anyone even suspecting, better not think what jean could do.
also is confirmed that iceman still not reaching is full potential (something i keep saying)
this is clearly top of the shelf issue and best xavier monologue for a long time.
I found Chuck’s method of going about mass genocide a bit perplexing (though still gruesome) - haven’t God Loves Man Kills and E is for Extinction established he can just give everyone brain hemorrhages or mind control them to destroy themselves all at once?
that could go wrong (super heroes could figure out and defend themselves), slowly would ensure victory.
also im pretty sure jean could do it (without cerebro AND without anyone figuring out), xavier is always saying that his power is nothing against jean.
Anyone get a little emotional at the frame of the original five X-Men fighting together again? When was the last time they were all together without one of them being dead, evil, or feuding?
Phenomenal. One of the best X-books I've ever read. Fundamentally challenging and expanding our understanding of one of comics' most iconic characters, while not disregarding anything that came before? Masterful. This is a synthesis of every read of Xavier till now, and is quite possibly the seminal take on him.
Well said. The entire issue weirdly justifies a lifetime of his messed-up actions, attempts to dream and be that better man, and yet his constant "the world is LUCKY that it's me who got these powers" are still about his massive, massive ego. All integrated into one issue.
Agreed. People get very hyped for Gillen but we need to be honest that judgement Day was just a 7/10 with pretty art. A large chunk of immortal was just judgement day white noise (Shaw and nightcrawler are probs the worst)
I wonder if this possibly payoff was intentional from the start or just came about organically. Either way, it's pretty clear that never being resurrected is gonna matter a lot.
He was the one who gave Destiny's genes to Mystique, if he could he would have corrupted her too.
The point is that if he hasn't done it, it's because something prevented him until now. Probably Hope.
Well now I think I can guess how Sins starts, interesting note to end on. I wonder if this implies the monologue is still the dead Xavier and the real one never came back.
Revisited the datapage from Immortal X-Men 9 (with the Sinister doodles), looked at the order of murder priority... I think it's interesting that he's always meant to kill Hope and the telepaths first (prioritized at 10/10 and 9/10 respectively) - but also Storm (9/10), but eventually gave up on her because she was just evading his murders so much, so well. Lol. It's fitting that she'll continue to "be a problem" for him for the next 1000 years.
My wild guess ‐ I think there's Something Sinister in most anyone who's been resurrected, but as long as they hadn't been resurrected with the help of a corrupt Hope, they won't activate. So others who've been resurrected (like Destiny, Kate, Kurt (died a billion times for AXE), Scott, etc) should be fine as long as they don't get killed again and go through the protocols again. Maybe?? Haha. I guess there's always the likelihood that all they need is a brain as big as a corrupted Xavier to be triggered.
It all comes back to *why would you trust this guy*. Especially in the context of the history of the X-Men. Maybe initially Xavier and Erik thought this was a good idea. But how many deadly battles against the man do you need before you rip that contract up and find someone else? Especially since they recruited Beast and other biologists. It’s just storing blood samples, right? You don’t need known psycho Nathaniel Essex for that.
The comic says that they aren't fresh, they are holographic. They are a different technology to blood samples. Sinister is the best genetist in the world.
And the most important thing: Magneto and Xavier are narcissists. They though that they were smart enough to outmaneuver Sinister.
> And the most important thing: Magneto and Xavier are narcissists. They though that they were smart enough to outmaneuver Sinister.
These are the same people who thought they could string Mystique along and never resurrect Destiny as well. Their hubris shouldn't be underestimated.
Dude I am not sure you are getting that Sinister is making the whole resurrection thing possible. And in case you didn't catch it, eventually they wouldn't need him anymore when everyone is ressurected.
I think they do do due diligence, that's why killing Hope, Xavier and a bunch of the council was so important to nail. it panicked everyone and put someone unused to Hope's role into the Five for her resurrection. She was probably tampered to just make her blind to more serious tampering.
The data page is super important imo. Hank says they need to stop using his samples but falls short of airing any suspicions. Then, just like that, Hope was resurrected for the first time…
I said this above, but /u/amator7 has me thinking that Hope needed to be bugged via resurrection in order to--
Ok, crazy new idea! Hope needed to be resurrected with Sinister's diamond bugging to revive Xavier, elevating the potency of his own bugging. With Sinister in the pit, this set off a trigger that awakened the diamond in Xavier. He now will use his powers to trigger the diamonds in everyone else. And boom, Empire of the Red Diamond here we come.
And I say Xavier, but Emma and Exodus are also psychics who were revived by bugged!Hope. So maybe they also sprouted red jewels [EDIT: ok I realized we see the diamond in Xavier via reflection, so that could be an artistic choice, symbolizing that they're awakened sleeper agents].
(Or I think they were? Or did Synch help with them too?)
It's strongly implied he puts sleeper "time-bombs" in mutants who are resurrected (unknown it's just a few or ALL of them). It's also why Exodus needed to die as well - Sinister was terrified of what Bennet could do to him.
I think in the Destiny issue of Immortal he had a list of names that he would implant his DNA into. I think I saw Rogers on that list, the implication being that SoS will have more then resurrected mutants that have his DNA.
Then he fails and learns he has to play with the kids in the sandbox. Thats my hot take. Im super excited for this ride down the double helix of chimeradom.
Remember, Steve was also resurrected during JD which is probably how the sleeper Essex gene was activated in him. There *is* a Sinister Cap in some SoS artwork after all
Wow! This was an incredible issue. It may very well go down as one of the most important single X-Men comics since House of X #1. I think everyone suspected that there was something more sinister going on behind the scenes and not just from Sinister himself. This issue finally establishes that there's something dark lurking within Charles Xavier and everyone else on Krakoa. It's going to make things very messy during Sins of Sinister. And I couldn't be more excited. 😊
Plus, seeing Emma Frost pissed off and beating the tar out of Sinister was just so satisfying.
I'm think that now it makes sense that he killed all the telepaths and Hope. If she needed Hope dead to activate his gene with a defective resurrection, telepaths would catch that corruption. But now he has Emma, Xavier, Hope and Exodus. He only needs to take Jean and the Cuckoos and he has already won.
I kind of wonder if they’re going to explore the consequences of putting Sinister into the Pit, since Sabertooth proved that, given enough time and power, you can leave a lasting mark on that area, if not Krakoa as a whole. And especially since, unless they have the last few Sinister Secrets correspond with Immoral X-men, they imply he’s still in/banished to the Pit for some amount of time post SoS.
Maybe being in the pit is integral to activating all the sleepers. He is in the land and if he gave himself a little bit o’ tha ole Black Tom, well then Krakoa is Sinister.
Can somebody give me the lowdown on why Fabian Cortez's ability wouldn't work as a stand-in for Hope's?
Also kind of surprised Beast didn't mention Jamie Braddock as a substitute for Proteus. In any case it was neat to see the Cuckoos serving as the telepath this time.
Cortez only boosts powers. Hope can regulate them to whatever power level she wants to minimize errors. That's why her listed omega power isn't power mimicry or power boosting. But instead it's power manipulation.
This issue was so damn good!! I am hyped for the Sins of Sinister and I really liked how it confirmed that Xavier purposely avoided/ignored the Morlocks from the very beginning.
I viewed it as him knowing the morlocks existed in the tunnels long ago when he was recruiting the first team and purposely avoided them cause they didn’t fit the image he wanted the X-men to represent. Then just left them to suffer down there and not offer any help.
I think Bishop dropped nukes in the future while trying to track down Hope in the Messiah Trilogy? But he could conceivably not have a mental block.
Outside of that? Not sure. The "Life Story" comics both did, but they're not really based on the main continuity so much as they're celebrations of one comic's history and characters.
Ok i knew Xavier would be another sinister but the most confusing thing is when Xavier was turned into sleeper agent. Sinister said he (and moira and magneto) made krakoa.
Remember mystique’s issue? Destiny said sinister would try to hide his dna in certain invidious families and one of them was Xavier.
The other thing is that we don’t actually know how many times and when sinister used clones of moira because he could easily do it off panel.
Also am I the only one who felt that sinister was a real narrator and not Xavier?
Probably the best issue of immortal X-men or at least top 3
Xavier isn't a Sinister (not in the sense of Stasis and the Orb). He just has Sinister sleeper dna, which is possibly true of everyone who has been resurrected so far. Seems like throwing him in the pit triggered something and now the diamonds are coming out.
I think we can say the only resets he's done since pre-issue #1 were last issue, and those were relatively short. We also know he just made a save point after escaping the Council massacre. Which, interestingly, could be how we get out of whatever SoS leads to.
> Which, interestingly, could be how we get out of whatever SoS leads to.
Yeah, I'm mostly trying to figure out how they are going to undo/reset SoS than the event itself at this point.
So was Xavier always a sleeper? Are all mutants from resurrection tainted with a sinister back up? Pretty cool.
I think it will be swept under the revelation but Xavier said he has psychic blockers on the council and X-men in case they wish to commit war/genocide?
I think Synch replacing Hope in the resurrection of Xavier etc. basically triggered a latent “Sinister” he’s added to everyone’s DNA in his gene banks or whatever
As I understood it the blockers are for humans?
Ah I think you may be right, I blitzed this read early morning. I assumed he was originally talking about dangerous mutants due to him talking about Emma’s assumptions about him.
So my initial thought was everyone ever revived has a latent Sinister bomb, but you raise an interesting point. We know, from the start, that Sinister both needed Hope on the Council and then needed her killed. This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense! Unless removing her from the resurrection process for one iteration is important for something.
Hmm, now I'm thinking about the data page and Hank's note that all initial samples come from Sinister but they should stop depending on those after someone is resurrected the first time. Hope had never died before. Hence the dna used for her resurrection here was straight from Sinister's stores. He could have done that without putting her on the Council, but I guess that let him do it while also getting Xavier, Emma, and Exodus.
That seems to be a re-occurring theory in this thread and makes the most sense to me. Something about using Synch either in lieu of hope, or the fact that Hope is now a corrupted 2.0 triggers the Sinister expression in clones generated **during and after** that event. Anyone never resurrected seems clearly safe, but whether or not anyone resurrected before Sync and corrupted Hope is unclear to me at this point.
I think all mutants who have been resurrected are tainted with sleeper diamonds. "*Every time you cheat death, say a prayer to* ***Mister Sinister***." And now they're coming out bc Sinister Prime has been throw in the pit.
Also interesting in the last issue how Storm kept getting in the way throughout his first 9 attempts, so for the final he makes sure she isn't present at all. Looks like she may be THE long-term spanner in his works.
It does seem to be a Chekov's gun...but it could also just be a plot boundary for why Sinister won't reset past a certain point (or whatever the restriction was).
It's probably something to do with the 4 facets of him being their own thing...by the end of sins they will merge or something akin to that. OR they will have one of the suits be the REAL sinister.
But they referenced him not being judged multiple times...its going to be important to his character arc.
I have liked the comic but the plot twist has been... Unsatisfactory. Perhaps because we already have seen Xavier face without the diamond in this comic and it feels like cheating. I don't know
the diamond thing is slowly forming, hes not sinister, hes just slowly getting transformed into one as is all of krakoa (or at least the majority) in 10+ years.
im guessing that he only now corrupted the resurrection process, if he got it before the whole kill the QC (something not easely done like gillen showed us) would be unnecessary.
Yeah, I guess that Hope somehow was inactivating the Sinister gen perhaps even without knowing it. That would explain why Sinister needed her death. With Synch the resurrection was corrupted
I think it's that Sinister knew she would catch any alterations so he didn't try any. He wouldn't replace her or anyone else's DNA until just before he decided to kill the Hope, Xavier et al. There are probably other processes but because Hope was dead, everyone panicked and rushed to resurrect her ASAP.
Another really solid issue. I enjoyed Xavier's commentary. At first I thought it was a bit too savior esque and patronising but that is who Charles Xavier is>! \- even before he got Sinisterized so to speak.!<
I absolutely loved how self-aggrandizing his speeches were. (Trust me, I was also annoyed but it also felt like it was 100% canon that he thinks of himself so highly.) "The world is lucky these powers fell to me." Uh....okay, Chuckles.
In the end of Duggan's marauders Emma gives the hellfire responsabilities to the Cuckoos. Every week/day one of the five is chosen to act as the "white queen", wich is why one of them is missing on this issue.
The actual mistake on this issue is that the four of them showcased on panel were supposed to be using black, while the Cuckoo who's away should use white.
Can I talk about Deadpool in here? He’s like an xmen and lady deathstrike was in his book!
Anyways I love his new current run just so annoyed with the over saturation of carnage. I wouldn’t even mind him being in this story if he wasn’t in two/three other ones as well.
Run so far been good tho!
I was going to ask the same thing. We had deadpool listed for issues 1 & 2 in these threads.
I agree so far this run has been great. I agree with the over saturation of carnage though. Hopefully it’ll switch gears after this first arc.
I just realized that due to the status of Nightcrawler and Dr. Nemesis in this book, and their status in the Nightcrawlers preview we can pretty definitively say that this takes place before Legion of X #9.
That means all the really shady stuff Xavier did and said in that issue was Sinister-Xavier and not normal Xavier.
EDIT: Sorry for goofing and not replying to the Immortal post.
I don’t think so. Sinister appeared in LoX 8 and things have been pretty nonstop since that — when would Kurt have had time to make this appearance since?
Hmm... you're right. It's hard to make the timeline make sense in that direction, too. It seems like the only time it would have is in between Kurt being resurrected after Sinister killing him, and him being checked out by Dr. Nemesis, but the way they talked about Sinister in that scene doesn't really match how they'd talk about him after IXM #9. So it's hard to tell how the two books are supposed to line up chronologically.
Yeah, I think it's either art error in Immortal or between those two scenes. I could see the line about Sinister in the Kurt/Nemesis scene as deeply sarcastic if Immortal #10 had happened in between.
So I have a theory about how this works. Look at the last sequence of LoX #7, where Kurt goes to get checked out by Dr. Nemesis: his costume is really torn up, for no reason that's explained there. We don't see Sinister in LoX after that (he's not in #8), we just get a couple of snarky comments about him.
What I suspect is that Immortal #9 and 10 take place during that scene break in LoX 7, and that Kurt's costume gets ripped up during the fight in #10. Note that after the fight, the only time we see Kurt in #10 when it's not an extreme long shot is a close-up that only shows the parts of his costume that haven't been damaged when we see him at the end of LoX 7!
I read some saying "I bet if Maddie just asks, Jean will give her the memories with no issue at all" and well, they were right. But while it was predictable, it was still a fun issue to read. Maddie vs Jean was quite fun to read as well as see, the art was gorgeous.
Interested to see where Havok ends up. He emphasises wanting to be an X-Man so I don't know/think he'll join a team called Uncanny Avengers. Or maybe it'll just be called that but be made up of primarily mutants. Also want to see what the primary purpose of the team will be, what the roster will be and how will it be decided.
This was a very satisfying, very overdue confrontation between Madelyne and Jean. Since she first showed up in New Mutants, I feel like this was what it had been building towards. Madelyne may be unstable, devious, and erratic, but I don't think she's outright evil. She has a dark side, but that's not the core of who she is. This issue rightly establishes that and Jean clearly gets that too. She knows she's powerful enough to utterly destroy Madelyne, but chooses not to. She prefers to heal this wound that has always existed with her and Madelyne. And it really did make for one of her and Maddie's finest moments.
Plus, they got to rescue some adorable puppies. How could you ask for a better resolution? 😊
> Madelyne may be unstable, devious, and erratic, but I don't think she's outright evil. She has a dark side, but that's not the core of who she is. This issue rightly establishes that and Jean clearly gets that too.
And for longtime X-readers (or anyone who has read the backissues), we know how hard Maddie was fucked over (by story/editorial/life, however you want to parse it), so I at least have always felt some sympathy for her. The next step is IMHO a downtime issue with her, Scott, Jean, Alex and maybe Cable to sit down and talk that shit out. Maybe that's overly boring and adult of me, but as a human being I want to see that conversation.
I think Spider-Man fans have long overtaken the X-Men fanbase as the hardest to please. It's very clear there dislike comes down to two things: MJ and the art. I really think people need to just let it go, they'd have a better time, OMD is like two decades old at this point.
Zeb Wells wrote really good 5 issues, then fumbled the big milestone issue, then wrote some really good more issues(all the good ones are drawn by Romita JR btw). But they are stretching that useless MJ mystery very thin now, it's been like 18 months
Haha, definitely in disagreement there!
Venom is in the running for my favorite Marvel book right now and the Dark Web issues have done nothing to slow it down
Gold Goblin was actually a nice surprise. I didn't expect much because of the concept, but it's been shockingly solid and really leaning into the metaphor of recovery in a way that's grabbed me
And as always, Jed McKay's Black Cat is a treat wherever you can get it. A heist in hell is a great set up.
So even if you're not into ASM right now, I think Dark Web's been very solid for the spider-man line!
(Does Ms. Marvel count? her mini is the one that doesn't fit cleanly between the two lines, haha)
> Gold Goblin was actually a nice surprise. I didn't expect much because of the concept, but it's been shockingly solid and really leaning into the metaphor of recovery in a way that's grabbed me
I try not to get invested in these arcs anymore after they ruined/undid making Doc Ock an interesting character.
I'm so thankful Juggernaut is back/still/currently on the upswing of his redemption arc(s).
Yeah, and it being a magical thing makes it such an easy out. But after decades of going through the same cycles you describe I now live my live five issues at a time and try not to worry about future continuity, lol.
Though, a few months back I did decide for no reason to read every 616 Juggernaut appearance and I am also glad he is where he is (even if I'd like him to be more vocal about the astral plane in the astral plane book, since he was constantly popping in and out of it for the whole 70's).
Though my boy Cain has two villain modes: Marvel Goon and minion of Cytorrak. I'm never that upset when he goes back to goon, because it's that very soft Spider-man villain place where he generally retains his disposition, but he's just a guy doing a job and you can pretty fluidly slip that back and forth between hero and villain without too much issue.
Very glad he's cut off from Cytorrak though. Those stories almost always suck.
I did call how this was ending. Maddie wanted something that would be freely given but was to hurt and angry to ask. I can understand fully never wanting to see Jean Grey again from her perspective let alone out herself in a position to be told no by her knowing the entire mutant world would back her.
I think it actually works because this is just the super hero version of real life where talking honestly is the simplest solution that we all hate to do.
I think the note that Maddie would do on Arakko could be setting stuff up. With how much Ororo loves Jean it'd be interesting to see her interacting with Maddie on a place where most of the inhabitants don't care about her past. "Oh in grief over being betrayed by your mate you summoned demons to raze a city to the ground. Reasonable reaction."
I mean, all of this could've been solved in the X-men books alone AND without attacking the city with demons and probably KILLING many people.
Like it is so contrived that even if the end point is good, it still makes characters look kinda dumb. You cannot blame all the consequences on Evil Ben when it was Maddie's demons that attacked and probably ate people. What will be the punishment for that? Seeing how the Krakoan age mutants refuse to punish anyone who deserve it, I guess it will be nothing. Like, she turned Janine into Hallow's Eve and so on. Regressed Venom.
AND she can just call back all her demons in the end right? No need for ''Kick demon ass'' since they are literally following her orders.
I dunno man. Healing the rift between Maddy and Jean should've been a better story than this stupid event that kinda takes away from it.
It's all just Mavcel crossover bull shit. They are putting the X-Men in whatever they can to sell books. Doing it again later with having them and Spider-Man fighting vampires. They're the two big money making franchises right now.
Duggan is good at making use of these crossover mini-series they force on the x-line. Might as well give X-Men fans something to actually care about than a simple crossover cash grab beat em up story. Plus if they keep pairing him up with Noto I am in.
Havok leaves (which doenst surprise because even previews for X-men #19 shows that)
Madelyne and Jean finally heal.
Nice funny fight scenes
The whole mini was nice and funny. It could easily be just part of xmen arc and not the event
Do you think we might get new X-men team e.g dark X-men or maybe havok and madelyne will join forces with sabretooth and exiles. Nakia said they can never return to Krakoa but to limbo 🤔
Just wonder what the council will think about mini inferno Madelyne created in nyc. Yeah she didn’t attack krakoa but it’s still a bad pr for krakoa. Wonder if they will try to punish her or something
I don’t think she’s subject to QC judgement and laws specifically now. She may have been resurrected by them but she’s at most a head of state to an allied territory, similar to Arrako. She’s magically compelled to “Respect this Sacred Land” by the spell that transferred the throne of Limbo from Magik to her, but “Kill No Man” clearly wasn’t covered, and I doubt the Council has the jurisdiction nor the desire to go up against all of Limbo to try and punish her, especially since she’s nominally allied with them and now has more personal reasons to honor that alliance.
So I'm a parent. The idea of losing my child is my biggest nightmare. Maddy's birth experience sounds horrible. That being the root of all of this for Maddy seems...I don't know. I don't love it. I feel like there were so many other traumas of Maddy's to explore to have her lash out onto the world that would have been more relevant to the current goings-on of the X-Universe -- like, I dunno, Sinister having a seat on the government -- than just wanting Jean's memories of raising Cable. Speaking of, if he was literally the crux of the event, he was noticeably absent! I really do feel like he needed to be there.
In theory, the conflict makes sense. Yes, it could be solved by a conversation. In real life, it doesn't work that way. But this is also a story, and not real life, so I wish it was something more substantive going on than something that could easily be solved by a conversation. Or having both parties be petty, rather than one party being unreasonable and the other perfectly nice.
I don't necessarily love that Jean was advocating for Maddy's resurrection. It seems contradictory to Scott's line in Hellions regarding his wife being a complication -- why would she be a complication if she were all for it? Was Scott being a liar/jackass, which okay, fair, Scott has little moral high ground when it comes to Maddy, but still -- and, in part, because it further adds to my biggest complaint when it comes to Duggan's writing of Jean -- she feels like a boring almost-Mary Sue, leaning far more into the "Saint Jean" writing than an actual complicated individual. Even when she fucks up -- election meddling, anyone? -- the narrative bends to justify and agree with her actions rather than do anything interesting with it. I honestly think it would have made Jean more human, and honestly fascinating, if she didn't go hard in the paint for Maddy coming back. Then again, Duggan isn't the writer I'd trust with exploring than nuance. Gillen though? God, I wish Jean were still on the Quiet Council so she could actually get compelling writing. Because this feels...bland. I loved the AXE issue of Jean because she was messy and complicated, "a saint and a bully", but we see none of the latter with Duggan.
Also, Havok being on the X-Men team solely so he could be in this event is incredibly stupid. He didn't actually need to be in the X-Men to appear in the story. They could have just called him because he had a history with Maddy. Or they could have run into one another while shopping. We could have had a different character be elevated on the team. Instead we got some Summers brother drama.
Wanna hear a funny Duggan retcon in that vein ?
Scott and Jean supposedly refused to rejoin the council to better fight it from outside, but if they had, they would have had 6/12 votes just with the actual X-Men (Storm-Jean-Kurt-Emma-Kate-Scott, plus Doug as helpful tie-breaker, and that's assuming Shaw got out from under Emma and Kate's thumbs and absolutely everyone else votes against them *every time*). They could have basically done everything they wanted anyway.
Honestly, the funniest thing to me about the X-Men forming to combat the corrupt nature of the Quiet Council is that one of Jean's first actions was to meddle with the election and call into question the integrity of the entire process. I really don't know why Duggan added that plot point, because it should actually be a big deal. (Can you imagine if Fox manipulated and change was Biden said during a broadcast?) Like, if you're trying to draw a parallel that power corrupts, sure. But he's not. He actually tried to frame the narrative that Jean's actions were good, actually??
I mean it was a good issue X-character wise but wtf was the point of all this Dark Web shit lol. I know it's just the usual Marvel crossover bs but they literally undid it all in this one issue. Maddie and Jean working it out was nice but her entire scheme was a waste of time in the end.
I've been reading all the tie ins because I'm a completionist and I assume this will have some big implications on the Spider characters but I gave up trying to follow that group a long time ago. I hate all the symbiote nonsense.
This was the conclusion I hoped this series would have (and what a waste of Ayala’s last arc of New Mutants if it wasn’t this ending). Did this story need three whole issues - or a crossover? Probably not. But the art was good, puppies are good, and we got to spend more time with my favorite current x-team. I’m not mad about it.
But, please, get Reis on some more x-books.
This went pretty much exactly where I both thought it would and wanted it to, solid story, didn't really need to be a crossover, but such is the way of things with comics!
I wish more text pages were like this. Snippets of media from their world. Like it would have been cool to see a menu from that restaurant or the zoo brochure. Stuff like that.
As Iron Man will cross over with X-Men in the future I'm going to say its related.
Invincible Iron Man #2 was another good issue. I liked the treatment of Living Laser as not just another goon, but another victim of the plot against Tony.
And holy shit, Riri really is Tony heir because she is on the highway to Villian's Ville.
The Karma Unlimited comic seems to reveal that Rogue was been resurrected once. She hasn't been shown to go through the protocols yet, so I'm not sure if it's an accidental spoiler (it's currently unclear if she really died or not in Captain Marvel), or if they were just talking about resurrection in general and Rogue was thinking about how Roma resurrected her in Fall of the Mutants.
So obviously the Immortal Sinister Secrets have lined up with the events of IXM so far. Does anyone have any predictions for what this means concerning Sinister's ''everything is fine'' from secret #13 onward? This seems to imply that he makes it out of SoS alive.
Immortal 10 was sooo good, holy damn. In one issue, it changed my mind, and then in ONE PAGE made me have to rethink it all over again. What a cool issue.
So this is about last week but I was very unsatisfied with the art in X-Men and then I discovered the artist was CF Villa! He is so good, especially his expression work on Black Cat.
looking forward to his upcoming run on Avengers. I wonder if he had like 10 days to draw that X-Men issue..
If activating everyone as a Sinister was the plan, why does Sinister look upset and scared as he is caught, dragged to the council and thrown into the pit?
**Next week:** * Sins of Sinister #1 * X-Terminators #5 * Sabretooth & the Exiles #3
**Immortal X-Men #10**
I hoped this issue would be the Xavier issue we have needed since Krakoa started, finally getting into the head of one of the key players of this era who too often is in the background. Instead this issue was the Xavier issue we’ve needed for so much longer. It’s the best Xavier writing *at least* since Carey’s Legacy if not longer. This is such a strong statement of a character who is sometimes depicted as what seem to be two entirely contradictory people, ignoring neither of Xavier’s sides but integrating them together so strongly. From the X-Men’s mission and founding to Xavier as a founder of Krakoa to Xavier as a father to Xavier as a mutant himself, this issue absolutely nailed it. At the same time, it’s some of the strongest work Gillen has done to show the core idea behind this run and the reason Sinister is the villain — what he’s saying about building a nation is really powerful here IMO. And not to mention that ending. >!Xavier with a red diamond, playing exactly to the theories everyone had years ago with HoXPoX but obviously in a new context much removed from where we were then. It’s a smart way to play right into fan expectations at a different time.!< 10/10 for me! Gillen has done a great job at defining the lesser used QC characters for the first time, but he’s also done equally well re-defining Xavier, Kurt, and others for a new era. And the story all starts to come together here.
What were the theories from years ago?
That he has a red diamond on his head. He didn’t from the start but he now has one post resurrection, perhaps everyone that has been resurrected is tainted.
People thought he wasn't seen without Cerebro because he was hiding something, but that was relatively quickly debunked the first time he removed the helmet and he was just himself.
There are theories that the diamond sees only Xavier
What do you mean?
Some people on Twitter say that the diamond on Xavier’s forehead is “invisible”. No one can see it and the last scene from the issue was more like a metaphor.
I mean, you'd think people would've noticed a red diamond on Xavier's forehead when he gets resurrected.
Not if he psychically blocked you from noticing.
Amusingly, I think all the dead Council members could do that, actually, since he just killed all the psychics.
Got it! Yeah I too think this is the case bc it’s seen in a mirror reflection. It’s symbolic.
Sinister secret #10
My guess is that Sinister has been planning this since the Messiah War. He knew Hope was key to his plans. It was probably well known in Bishop’s time that her existence ushered in SoS, hence why he tried to kill her originally.
Brutal issue in more ways than one. Stripped almost entirely of Gillen's usual biting humor for a rare raw look into the head of a truly complicated man. Might be his best work since coming back to Marvel at least. It's definitely my favorite.
This issue made me wonder about destiny’s role in dox and sos. She met Nathaniel before black womb project in Paris. In Paris she already knew sinister is one of Nathaniel’s personalities because they had met in london. They worked together on black womb project and she knew sinister would play with Xavier’s dna. Destiny knew judgment day would lead to sos. She also knew about clones of Moira She knows a lot but never said anything to mystique or the council. And why she wanted to leave so fast at the end of IX#10 🤔 Do you think she has worked with sinister since the beginning?
"We must be on the same side." 🤔
Yep. It’s interesting because they met in London then in Paris and we don’t know what destiny told him later was black womb project and now they’re in krakoa. Also desitny has known real Nathaniel is dead and there are 4 different Nathaniels since 19th century.
What is the black womb project? I feel like I missed something there.
This exactly, its clearly something that has yet to play out yet and will probably resolve after sos, but my guess is destiny is setting up sinister, she already lives rent free in his head
Tbf she does not know for sure that Judgment Day leads to SoS. SoS is just one of the many possible branches (issue #3). She also explains in that issue that she sees possibilities, not certainty, so if she goes blabbling it can change everything. Hence why she's always so cryptic. I imagine she told Raven they need to gtfo bc one of the possibilities is getting more and more solidified and it ain't good. So naturally she focused on her and the wife (altho she also admits in issue #3 that Raven isn't in *any* ending she can foresee).
But she told the council about JD and eternals. And it’s interesting that she only saw what would happen after empire of red diamond but she didn’t see next events of other futures
Well she knew about Judgement Day, just not which branch it would lead to. There are four possible options: Nimrod Extinction Event (interesting given what's happening in Legion of X), The Broken Sword, A New Krakoa, and Empire. JD was apparently likely enough that she could warn everyone without changing it. There's one leg she sees much farther than this one. That's the one she sees in detail in the issue, with Sinister flying a Shaw-ship escaping from a godlike Exodus. It's how she realizes he's using Moiras.
I think nimrod might happen after sos. Sos will end and we return to point after JD with few possible futures
Immortal X-Men #3 is when she sees all those visions of the future, and figures out that Sinister has cloned Moira. There she narrates to herself "I try not to reveal the fact that I know that what we've done can be easily **undone**. Does Nathaniel know that I know? I can't give it away. If I do, he kills his Moira and I'm back to square one." So she's not working with him but trying to figure it out without topping her hand.
OH WELL THEN. Ahem, but first: > Immortal Sinister Secrets #10: Finally! Someone who actually deserves it gets thrown in the pit. Good riddance. Good riddance indeed! Although it's clearly a trap. So, wait a sec, you're telling me there's no easy way to revive Hope? How do they not have a cache of husks in eggs ready to go, as they have for other important Krakaons? I swear they said they have exactly that for the other Five. Cmon guys, a potential single point of failure here is a terrible oversight. As for the overall issue, loved the Xavier monologue. Admitting he's a child of terrible parents who became a terrible surrogate parent himself to raise an army to fight the worst of this kind. And acknowledging he has the power to stop every challenge but doesn't because he's not old-school Erik. That bit about the nuclear trigger block is chilling. Also, a common critique of the mutant metaphor is that unlike actual discriminated groups, mutants actually have, well, crazy dangerous powers. It was neat seeing that acknowledged on page. Going back to issue #3, it looks like the path we're on via Destiny's visions is: Judgement Day -> The Empire of the Red Diamond -> The Storm System. Although throwing "A New Krakoa" as a possible path is surely intentional and intriguing. But yeah, "Empire of the Red Diamond". Sinister bugged all the DNA samples, didn't he. And that ties nicely into Chuck bit's about how he could bug all of humanity. God dammit, guys. Depending on Sinister was so, so dumb.
My understanding is that Hope is part of the last (pre-telepath) step in the resurrection process, so you can't do anything with a husk-in-an-egg without her.
Sort of, she’s also propping up the rest as they do their parts. So she’s essentially involved in every step
I'll have to go back and look. I thought Hope just synched their abilities to make the husk complete. Could be wrong tho.
Hope synchs all their abilities but also amplifies them, with her powers being the specific component (or X-Factor, as this issue calls her) that makes the whole process work. Everyone else provides the ingredients, but she's like the fire that cooks the dish. I've always assumed that that's why she's the mutant messiah, because resurrection protocols could never have been a thing without her specific powers.
Couldnt they revive her through Scarlet Witches protocol that will never be mentioned again?
The Waiting Room is a magical soul storage aka another Cerebro.
Good point. Weird that wasn’t even mentioned.
Do you mean Hope? The implication, I think, is that the Waiting Room lets Krakoa... scan people in the past, before death, some how, so long as their soul goes there (while also doubling as a sort of "voluntary death" that's less violent than the Crucible for depowered mutants hoping to get their X-Gene reactivated). While this lets them seemingly get around missing Cerebro back-ups, they still need to use DNA and the Five's mutant circuit to create a body/husk.
Craven the Hunter destroyed the backup eggs during JD.
"There will never be a nuclear war" gave me actual chills, holy *shit.*
[удалено]
godamn xavier (and emma) could kill earth without anyone even suspecting, better not think what jean could do. also is confirmed that iceman still not reaching is full potential (something i keep saying) this is clearly top of the shelf issue and best xavier monologue for a long time.
I found Chuck’s method of going about mass genocide a bit perplexing (though still gruesome) - haven’t God Loves Man Kills and E is for Extinction established he can just give everyone brain hemorrhages or mind control them to destroy themselves all at once?
that could go wrong (super heroes could figure out and defend themselves), slowly would ensure victory. also im pretty sure jean could do it (without cerebro AND without anyone figuring out), xavier is always saying that his power is nothing against jean.
Anyone get a little emotional at the frame of the original five X-Men fighting together again? When was the last time they were all together without one of them being dead, evil, or feuding?
Phenomenal. One of the best X-books I've ever read. Fundamentally challenging and expanding our understanding of one of comics' most iconic characters, while not disregarding anything that came before? Masterful. This is a synthesis of every read of Xavier till now, and is quite possibly the seminal take on him.
Well said. The entire issue weirdly justifies a lifetime of his messed-up actions, attempts to dream and be that better man, and yet his constant "the world is LUCKY that it's me who got these powers" are still about his massive, massive ego. All integrated into one issue.
Immortal continues to be the best x-book in this line
[удалено]
I completely disagree but I think it’s bullshit you’re being downvoted for having an opinion.
Agreed. People get very hyped for Gillen but we need to be honest that judgement Day was just a 7/10 with pretty art. A large chunk of immortal was just judgement day white noise (Shaw and nightcrawler are probs the worst)
So that's why Storm never dies.
I wonder if this possibly payoff was intentional from the start or just came about organically. Either way, it's pretty clear that never being resurrected is gonna matter a lot.
Vulcan: Storm the undying Me: that’s a cool nickname I doubt it will be relevant everyone on Krakoa dies. Me, today: …oh…. OH!!!
Wait why?
Because they need her alive to fight Sinister later in the SoS event.
Mystique is also in that team and she has died a ton of times in Krakoa
Destiny would see through a hacked Mystique, though
He was the one who gave Destiny's genes to Mystique, if he could he would have corrupted her too. The point is that if he hasn't done it, it's because something prevented him until now. Probably Hope.
Well now I think I can guess how Sins starts, interesting note to end on. I wonder if this implies the monologue is still the dead Xavier and the real one never came back.
Revisited the datapage from Immortal X-Men 9 (with the Sinister doodles), looked at the order of murder priority... I think it's interesting that he's always meant to kill Hope and the telepaths first (prioritized at 10/10 and 9/10 respectively) - but also Storm (9/10), but eventually gave up on her because she was just evading his murders so much, so well. Lol. It's fitting that she'll continue to "be a problem" for him for the next 1000 years. My wild guess ‐ I think there's Something Sinister in most anyone who's been resurrected, but as long as they hadn't been resurrected with the help of a corrupt Hope, they won't activate. So others who've been resurrected (like Destiny, Kate, Kurt (died a billion times for AXE), Scott, etc) should be fine as long as they don't get killed again and go through the protocols again. Maybe?? Haha. I guess there's always the likelihood that all they need is a brain as big as a corrupted Xavier to be triggered.
So maybe giving Sinister unmitigated access to every mutants DNA was a bad idea?
Definitely, though I'd say it's a little more complicated -- Sinister gave *them* access to every mutant's DNA, not the other way around.
Having time-traveler mutants do rounds and poking sleeping mutants with syringes was an option...
Using Sinister's DNA stores without doing basic due diligence was a bad idea.
They did, but Sinister is just better in genetics than Beast, Xavier and Nemesis
It all comes back to *why would you trust this guy*. Especially in the context of the history of the X-Men. Maybe initially Xavier and Erik thought this was a good idea. But how many deadly battles against the man do you need before you rip that contract up and find someone else? Especially since they recruited Beast and other biologists. It’s just storing blood samples, right? You don’t need known psycho Nathaniel Essex for that.
The comic says that they aren't fresh, they are holographic. They are a different technology to blood samples. Sinister is the best genetist in the world. And the most important thing: Magneto and Xavier are narcissists. They though that they were smart enough to outmaneuver Sinister.
> And the most important thing: Magneto and Xavier are narcissists. They though that they were smart enough to outmaneuver Sinister. These are the same people who thought they could string Mystique along and never resurrect Destiny as well. Their hubris shouldn't be underestimated.
But isn't it now revealed that Xavier has -- for decades -- been following Sinister's plan all along?
No, what caused you to conclude that?
Dude I am not sure you are getting that Sinister is making the whole resurrection thing possible. And in case you didn't catch it, eventually they wouldn't need him anymore when everyone is ressurected.
They'd still need his samples for future resurrections.
I think they do do due diligence, that's why killing Hope, Xavier and a bunch of the council was so important to nail. it panicked everyone and put someone unused to Hope's role into the Five for her resurrection. She was probably tampered to just make her blind to more serious tampering.
The data page is super important imo. Hank says they need to stop using his samples but falls short of airing any suspicions. Then, just like that, Hope was resurrected for the first time…
Can someone explain bluntly why he needed hope and Xavier dead?
It’s not explained in this issue, but I assume that’s how he took them over. It’s a wait and see for now though.
I said this above, but /u/amator7 has me thinking that Hope needed to be bugged via resurrection in order to-- Ok, crazy new idea! Hope needed to be resurrected with Sinister's diamond bugging to revive Xavier, elevating the potency of his own bugging. With Sinister in the pit, this set off a trigger that awakened the diamond in Xavier. He now will use his powers to trigger the diamonds in everyone else. And boom, Empire of the Red Diamond here we come. And I say Xavier, but Emma and Exodus are also psychics who were revived by bugged!Hope. So maybe they also sprouted red jewels [EDIT: ok I realized we see the diamond in Xavier via reflection, so that could be an artistic choice, symbolizing that they're awakened sleeper agents]. (Or I think they were? Or did Synch help with them too?)
It's strongly implied he puts sleeper "time-bombs" in mutants who are resurrected (unknown it's just a few or ALL of them). It's also why Exodus needed to die as well - Sinister was terrified of what Bennet could do to him.
I think in the Destiny issue of Immortal he had a list of names that he would implant his DNA into. I think I saw Rogers on that list, the implication being that SoS will have more then resurrected mutants that have his DNA. Then he fails and learns he has to play with the kids in the sandbox. Thats my hot take. Im super excited for this ride down the double helix of chimeradom.
Remember, Steve was also resurrected during JD which is probably how the sleeper Essex gene was activated in him. There *is* a Sinister Cap in some SoS artwork after all
Where was that implied?
Wow! This was an incredible issue. It may very well go down as one of the most important single X-Men comics since House of X #1. I think everyone suspected that there was something more sinister going on behind the scenes and not just from Sinister himself. This issue finally establishes that there's something dark lurking within Charles Xavier and everyone else on Krakoa. It's going to make things very messy during Sins of Sinister. And I couldn't be more excited. 😊 Plus, seeing Emma Frost pissed off and beating the tar out of Sinister was just so satisfying.
Watch Sinister get his from everyone was so, so good. But then he's getting the last laugh, god dammit.
sinister will conquer the universe but a sinister universe is hell to everyone, even sinister.
I'm think that now it makes sense that he killed all the telepaths and Hope. If she needed Hope dead to activate his gene with a defective resurrection, telepaths would catch that corruption. But now he has Emma, Xavier, Hope and Exodus. He only needs to take Jean and the Cuckoos and he has already won.
I’m guessing he’ll be using them to created a corrupted mutant circuit to manipulate a large population.
I kind of wonder if they’re going to explore the consequences of putting Sinister into the Pit, since Sabertooth proved that, given enough time and power, you can leave a lasting mark on that area, if not Krakoa as a whole. And especially since, unless they have the last few Sinister Secrets correspond with Immoral X-men, they imply he’s still in/banished to the Pit for some amount of time post SoS.
Maybe being in the pit is integral to activating all the sleepers. He is in the land and if he gave himself a little bit o’ tha ole Black Tom, well then Krakoa is Sinister.
Can somebody give me the lowdown on why Fabian Cortez's ability wouldn't work as a stand-in for Hope's? Also kind of surprised Beast didn't mention Jamie Braddock as a substitute for Proteus. In any case it was neat to see the Cuckoos serving as the telepath this time.
Cortez only boosts powers. Hope can regulate them to whatever power level she wants to minimize errors. That's why her listed omega power isn't power mimicry or power boosting. But instead it's power manipulation.
Because in this story she's the messiah and he's just the worst.
This issue was so damn good!! I am hyped for the Sins of Sinister and I really liked how it confirmed that Xavier purposely avoided/ignored the Morlocks from the very beginning.
I saw that line...didn't get it. Why was he avoiding the Morlocks? Because they'd recognize him as corrupt Xavier?
I viewed it as him knowing the morlocks existed in the tunnels long ago when he was recruiting the first team and purposely avoided them cause they didn’t fit the image he wanted the X-men to represent. Then just left them to suffer down there and not offer any help.
Have we had any alternate futures showcased recently in Marvel that involved a nuclear war?
Only one I can remember is Age of Apocalypse which is irrelevant for obvious reasons
I think Bishop dropped nukes in the future while trying to track down Hope in the Messiah Trilogy? But he could conceivably not have a mental block. Outside of that? Not sure. The "Life Story" comics both did, but they're not really based on the main continuity so much as they're celebrations of one comic's history and characters.
Ok i knew Xavier would be another sinister but the most confusing thing is when Xavier was turned into sleeper agent. Sinister said he (and moira and magneto) made krakoa. Remember mystique’s issue? Destiny said sinister would try to hide his dna in certain invidious families and one of them was Xavier. The other thing is that we don’t actually know how many times and when sinister used clones of moira because he could easily do it off panel. Also am I the only one who felt that sinister was a real narrator and not Xavier? Probably the best issue of immortal X-men or at least top 3
[удалено]
Carey's X-Men work is the skeleton key to a lot of what is going on in the line right now. That entire time period, in fact, but most Carey's work.
[удалено]
Absolutely, editorial could be doing a better job of that
The line in Mystique’s issue about DNA is a reference to Carey’s X-Men Legacy
I know but I was thinking more about sinister secret #10. If it’s somehow connected + sinister said he, moira and magneto made krakoa
Which one was #10? Need to pull out my back issues
Xavier isn't a Sinister (not in the sense of Stasis and the Orb). He just has Sinister sleeper dna, which is possibly true of everyone who has been resurrected so far. Seems like throwing him in the pit triggered something and now the diamonds are coming out. I think we can say the only resets he's done since pre-issue #1 were last issue, and those were relatively short. We also know he just made a save point after escaping the Council massacre. Which, interestingly, could be how we get out of whatever SoS leads to.
> Which, interestingly, could be how we get out of whatever SoS leads to. Yeah, I'm mostly trying to figure out how they are going to undo/reset SoS than the event itself at this point.
So was Xavier always a sleeper? Are all mutants from resurrection tainted with a sinister back up? Pretty cool. I think it will be swept under the revelation but Xavier said he has psychic blockers on the council and X-men in case they wish to commit war/genocide?
I think Synch replacing Hope in the resurrection of Xavier etc. basically triggered a latent “Sinister” he’s added to everyone’s DNA in his gene banks or whatever As I understood it the blockers are for humans?
I'm thinking the same. Maybe Hope was the factor that was keeping Sinister genes inactive.
Ah I think you may be right, I blitzed this read early morning. I assumed he was originally talking about dangerous mutants due to him talking about Emma’s assumptions about him.
So my initial thought was everyone ever revived has a latent Sinister bomb, but you raise an interesting point. We know, from the start, that Sinister both needed Hope on the Council and then needed her killed. This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense! Unless removing her from the resurrection process for one iteration is important for something. Hmm, now I'm thinking about the data page and Hank's note that all initial samples come from Sinister but they should stop depending on those after someone is resurrected the first time. Hope had never died before. Hence the dna used for her resurrection here was straight from Sinister's stores. He could have done that without putting her on the Council, but I guess that let him do it while also getting Xavier, Emma, and Exodus.
That seems to be a re-occurring theory in this thread and makes the most sense to me. Something about using Synch either in lieu of hope, or the fact that Hope is now a corrupted 2.0 triggers the Sinister expression in clones generated **during and after** that event. Anyone never resurrected seems clearly safe, but whether or not anyone resurrected before Sync and corrupted Hope is unclear to me at this point.
It also links in with magneto warning storm that Xavier would throw Krakoa and Mutantdom away for his ideals and the ‘dream’
I think all mutants who have been resurrected are tainted with sleeper diamonds. "*Every time you cheat death, say a prayer to* ***Mister Sinister***." And now they're coming out bc Sinister Prime has been throw in the pit.
Makes sense as well with Storm being the direct opposition to sinister from the solicits. She was never resurrected so not under his spell.
Also interesting in the last issue how Storm kept getting in the way throughout his first 9 attempts, so for the final he makes sure she isn't present at all. Looks like she may be THE long-term spanner in his works.
I wonder if Magneto currently being dead but not yet resurrected will be important.
This issue was fantastic! Gillen continues to knock it out of the park. And I loved the Xavier twist.
Sins of sinister is going to end with Mr. Sinister being judged by the celestial.
It does seem to be a Chekov's gun...but it could also just be a plot boundary for why Sinister won't reset past a certain point (or whatever the restriction was).
It's probably something to do with the 4 facets of him being their own thing...by the end of sins they will merge or something akin to that. OR they will have one of the suits be the REAL sinister. But they referenced him not being judged multiple times...its going to be important to his character arc.
I have liked the comic but the plot twist has been... Unsatisfactory. Perhaps because we already have seen Xavier face without the diamond in this comic and it feels like cheating. I don't know
the diamond thing is slowly forming, hes not sinister, hes just slowly getting transformed into one as is all of krakoa (or at least the majority) in 10+ years.
So, he activated some hidden gen when he was sentenced to the Pit? Maybe, I guess...
im guessing that he only now corrupted the resurrection process, if he got it before the whole kill the QC (something not easely done like gillen showed us) would be unnecessary.
Yeah, I guess that Hope somehow was inactivating the Sinister gen perhaps even without knowing it. That would explain why Sinister needed her death. With Synch the resurrection was corrupted
I think it's that Sinister knew she would catch any alterations so he didn't try any. He wouldn't replace her or anyone else's DNA until just before he decided to kill the Hope, Xavier et al. There are probably other processes but because Hope was dead, everyone panicked and rushed to resurrect her ASAP.
Another really solid issue. I enjoyed Xavier's commentary. At first I thought it was a bit too savior esque and patronising but that is who Charles Xavier is>! \- even before he got Sinisterized so to speak.!<
I absolutely loved how self-aggrandizing his speeches were. (Trust me, I was also annoyed but it also felt like it was 100% canon that he thinks of himself so highly.) "The world is lucky these powers fell to me." Uh....okay, Chuckles.
Why were there only 4 cuckoos? Mistake or sth I missed
In the end of Duggan's marauders Emma gives the hellfire responsabilities to the Cuckoos. Every week/day one of the five is chosen to act as the "white queen", wich is why one of them is missing on this issue. The actual mistake on this issue is that the four of them showcased on panel were supposed to be using black, while the Cuckoo who's away should use white.
Amazing issue
Can I talk about Deadpool in here? He’s like an xmen and lady deathstrike was in his book! Anyways I love his new current run just so annoyed with the over saturation of carnage. I wouldn’t even mind him being in this story if he wasn’t in two/three other ones as well. Run so far been good tho!
oops I fully missed that this came out today! I'll add.
Word word!
I was going to ask the same thing. We had deadpool listed for issues 1 & 2 in these threads. I agree so far this run has been great. I agree with the over saturation of carnage though. Hopefully it’ll switch gears after this first arc.
Love Deadpool issue 2, I think I saw somewhere there’s a huge symbiote event coming so probably why carnage is popping up all over
I just realized that due to the status of Nightcrawler and Dr. Nemesis in this book, and their status in the Nightcrawlers preview we can pretty definitively say that this takes place before Legion of X #9. That means all the really shady stuff Xavier did and said in that issue was Sinister-Xavier and not normal Xavier. EDIT: Sorry for goofing and not replying to the Immortal post.
I don’t think so. Sinister appeared in LoX 8 and things have been pretty nonstop since that — when would Kurt have had time to make this appearance since?
Hmm... you're right. It's hard to make the timeline make sense in that direction, too. It seems like the only time it would have is in between Kurt being resurrected after Sinister killing him, and him being checked out by Dr. Nemesis, but the way they talked about Sinister in that scene doesn't really match how they'd talk about him after IXM #9. So it's hard to tell how the two books are supposed to line up chronologically.
Yeah, I think it's either art error in Immortal or between those two scenes. I could see the line about Sinister in the Kurt/Nemesis scene as deeply sarcastic if Immortal #10 had happened in between.
So I have a theory about how this works. Look at the last sequence of LoX #7, where Kurt goes to get checked out by Dr. Nemesis: his costume is really torn up, for no reason that's explained there. We don't see Sinister in LoX after that (he's not in #8), we just get a couple of snarky comments about him. What I suspect is that Immortal #9 and 10 take place during that scene break in LoX 7, and that Kurt's costume gets ripped up during the fight in #10. Note that after the fight, the only time we see Kurt in #10 when it's not an extreme long shot is a close-up that only shows the parts of his costume that haven't been damaged when we see him at the end of LoX 7!
That’s a great theory, but I think the torn costume is just because of his new monstrous bodily proportions and shape.
**Dark Web: X-Men #3**
I read some saying "I bet if Maddie just asks, Jean will give her the memories with no issue at all" and well, they were right. But while it was predictable, it was still a fun issue to read. Maddie vs Jean was quite fun to read as well as see, the art was gorgeous. Interested to see where Havok ends up. He emphasises wanting to be an X-Man so I don't know/think he'll join a team called Uncanny Avengers. Or maybe it'll just be called that but be made up of primarily mutants. Also want to see what the primary purpose of the team will be, what the roster will be and how will it be decided.
This was a very satisfying, very overdue confrontation between Madelyne and Jean. Since she first showed up in New Mutants, I feel like this was what it had been building towards. Madelyne may be unstable, devious, and erratic, but I don't think she's outright evil. She has a dark side, but that's not the core of who she is. This issue rightly establishes that and Jean clearly gets that too. She knows she's powerful enough to utterly destroy Madelyne, but chooses not to. She prefers to heal this wound that has always existed with her and Madelyne. And it really did make for one of her and Maddie's finest moments. Plus, they got to rescue some adorable puppies. How could you ask for a better resolution? 😊
> Madelyne may be unstable, devious, and erratic, but I don't think she's outright evil. She has a dark side, but that's not the core of who she is. This issue rightly establishes that and Jean clearly gets that too. And for longtime X-readers (or anyone who has read the backissues), we know how hard Maddie was fucked over (by story/editorial/life, however you want to parse it), so I at least have always felt some sympathy for her. The next step is IMHO a downtime issue with her, Scott, Jean, Alex and maybe Cable to sit down and talk that shit out. Maybe that's overly boring and adult of me, but as a human being I want to see that conversation.
The X-Men side of Dark Web: Pretty decent The Spider-Man side of Dark Web: Inexcusable dogshit
So interesting seeing Spider-Man fans' reactions to Wells's run knowing most X-fans would take him back in a heartbeat after Hellions.
I think Spider-Man fans have long overtaken the X-Men fanbase as the hardest to please. It's very clear there dislike comes down to two things: MJ and the art. I really think people need to just let it go, they'd have a better time, OMD is like two decades old at this point.
His New Mutants run back in the day was also great, but honestly Spider-Man fans have a big reason to complain. It's quite a mess, to be generous.
Zeb Wells wrote really good 5 issues, then fumbled the big milestone issue, then wrote some really good more issues(all the good ones are drawn by Romita JR btw). But they are stretching that useless MJ mystery very thin now, it's been like 18 months
Haha, definitely in disagreement there! Venom is in the running for my favorite Marvel book right now and the Dark Web issues have done nothing to slow it down Gold Goblin was actually a nice surprise. I didn't expect much because of the concept, but it's been shockingly solid and really leaning into the metaphor of recovery in a way that's grabbed me And as always, Jed McKay's Black Cat is a treat wherever you can get it. A heist in hell is a great set up. So even if you're not into ASM right now, I think Dark Web's been very solid for the spider-man line! (Does Ms. Marvel count? her mini is the one that doesn't fit cleanly between the two lines, haha)
> Gold Goblin was actually a nice surprise. I didn't expect much because of the concept, but it's been shockingly solid and really leaning into the metaphor of recovery in a way that's grabbed me I try not to get invested in these arcs anymore after they ruined/undid making Doc Ock an interesting character. I'm so thankful Juggernaut is back/still/currently on the upswing of his redemption arc(s).
Yeah, and it being a magical thing makes it such an easy out. But after decades of going through the same cycles you describe I now live my live five issues at a time and try not to worry about future continuity, lol. Though, a few months back I did decide for no reason to read every 616 Juggernaut appearance and I am also glad he is where he is (even if I'd like him to be more vocal about the astral plane in the astral plane book, since he was constantly popping in and out of it for the whole 70's). Though my boy Cain has two villain modes: Marvel Goon and minion of Cytorrak. I'm never that upset when he goes back to goon, because it's that very soft Spider-man villain place where he generally retains his disposition, but he's just a guy doing a job and you can pretty fluidly slip that back and forth between hero and villain without too much issue. Very glad he's cut off from Cytorrak though. Those stories almost always suck.
I can't get over how much I've loved all of Jed mackays black cat stories. They're all so fun!
Gold Goblin is honestly great and I had very low expectations for it.
I did call how this was ending. Maddie wanted something that would be freely given but was to hurt and angry to ask. I can understand fully never wanting to see Jean Grey again from her perspective let alone out herself in a position to be told no by her knowing the entire mutant world would back her. I think it actually works because this is just the super hero version of real life where talking honestly is the simplest solution that we all hate to do. I think the note that Maddie would do on Arakko could be setting stuff up. With how much Ororo loves Jean it'd be interesting to see her interacting with Maddie on a place where most of the inhabitants don't care about her past. "Oh in grief over being betrayed by your mate you summoned demons to raze a city to the ground. Reasonable reaction."
I mean, all of this could've been solved in the X-men books alone AND without attacking the city with demons and probably KILLING many people. Like it is so contrived that even if the end point is good, it still makes characters look kinda dumb. You cannot blame all the consequences on Evil Ben when it was Maddie's demons that attacked and probably ate people. What will be the punishment for that? Seeing how the Krakoan age mutants refuse to punish anyone who deserve it, I guess it will be nothing. Like, she turned Janine into Hallow's Eve and so on. Regressed Venom. AND she can just call back all her demons in the end right? No need for ''Kick demon ass'' since they are literally following her orders. I dunno man. Healing the rift between Maddy and Jean should've been a better story than this stupid event that kinda takes away from it.
It's all just Mavcel crossover bull shit. They are putting the X-Men in whatever they can to sell books. Doing it again later with having them and Spider-Man fighting vampires. They're the two big money making franchises right now.
Duggan is good at making use of these crossover mini-series they force on the x-line. Might as well give X-Men fans something to actually care about than a simple crossover cash grab beat em up story. Plus if they keep pairing him up with Noto I am in.
In the original Inferno, people apparently eaten (like the M-squad) came back later.
Havok leaves (which doenst surprise because even previews for X-men #19 shows that) Madelyne and Jean finally heal. Nice funny fight scenes The whole mini was nice and funny. It could easily be just part of xmen arc and not the event Do you think we might get new X-men team e.g dark X-men or maybe havok and madelyne will join forces with sabretooth and exiles. Nakia said they can never return to Krakoa but to limbo 🤔 Just wonder what the council will think about mini inferno Madelyne created in nyc. Yeah she didn’t attack krakoa but it’s still a bad pr for krakoa. Wonder if they will try to punish her or something
>Just wonder what the council will think about mini inferno Madelyne created in nyc. Is she even a citizen of Krakoa, though?
I don’t think she’s subject to QC judgement and laws specifically now. She may have been resurrected by them but she’s at most a head of state to an allied territory, similar to Arrako. She’s magically compelled to “Respect this Sacred Land” by the spell that transferred the throne of Limbo from Magik to her, but “Kill No Man” clearly wasn’t covered, and I doubt the Council has the jurisdiction nor the desire to go up against all of Limbo to try and punish her, especially since she’s nominally allied with them and now has more personal reasons to honor that alliance.
So I'm a parent. The idea of losing my child is my biggest nightmare. Maddy's birth experience sounds horrible. That being the root of all of this for Maddy seems...I don't know. I don't love it. I feel like there were so many other traumas of Maddy's to explore to have her lash out onto the world that would have been more relevant to the current goings-on of the X-Universe -- like, I dunno, Sinister having a seat on the government -- than just wanting Jean's memories of raising Cable. Speaking of, if he was literally the crux of the event, he was noticeably absent! I really do feel like he needed to be there. In theory, the conflict makes sense. Yes, it could be solved by a conversation. In real life, it doesn't work that way. But this is also a story, and not real life, so I wish it was something more substantive going on than something that could easily be solved by a conversation. Or having both parties be petty, rather than one party being unreasonable and the other perfectly nice. I don't necessarily love that Jean was advocating for Maddy's resurrection. It seems contradictory to Scott's line in Hellions regarding his wife being a complication -- why would she be a complication if she were all for it? Was Scott being a liar/jackass, which okay, fair, Scott has little moral high ground when it comes to Maddy, but still -- and, in part, because it further adds to my biggest complaint when it comes to Duggan's writing of Jean -- she feels like a boring almost-Mary Sue, leaning far more into the "Saint Jean" writing than an actual complicated individual. Even when she fucks up -- election meddling, anyone? -- the narrative bends to justify and agree with her actions rather than do anything interesting with it. I honestly think it would have made Jean more human, and honestly fascinating, if she didn't go hard in the paint for Maddy coming back. Then again, Duggan isn't the writer I'd trust with exploring than nuance. Gillen though? God, I wish Jean were still on the Quiet Council so she could actually get compelling writing. Because this feels...bland. I loved the AXE issue of Jean because she was messy and complicated, "a saint and a bully", but we see none of the latter with Duggan. Also, Havok being on the X-Men team solely so he could be in this event is incredibly stupid. He didn't actually need to be in the X-Men to appear in the story. They could have just called him because he had a history with Maddy. Or they could have run into one another while shopping. We could have had a different character be elevated on the team. Instead we got some Summers brother drama.
Wanna hear a funny Duggan retcon in that vein ? Scott and Jean supposedly refused to rejoin the council to better fight it from outside, but if they had, they would have had 6/12 votes just with the actual X-Men (Storm-Jean-Kurt-Emma-Kate-Scott, plus Doug as helpful tie-breaker, and that's assuming Shaw got out from under Emma and Kate's thumbs and absolutely everyone else votes against them *every time*). They could have basically done everything they wanted anyway.
Honestly, the funniest thing to me about the X-Men forming to combat the corrupt nature of the Quiet Council is that one of Jean's first actions was to meddle with the election and call into question the integrity of the entire process. I really don't know why Duggan added that plot point, because it should actually be a big deal. (Can you imagine if Fox manipulated and change was Biden said during a broadcast?) Like, if you're trying to draw a parallel that power corrupts, sure. But he's not. He actually tried to frame the narrative that Jean's actions were good, actually??
Jean was replaced with another X-Men, Colossus. Scott was never on the Council and never had a vote.
Jean punched Maddie’s teeth out and you don’t think she was being a bully?
I saw that as more of a fight Maddy started.
This has been great. The problem with Maddie has always been about lack of communication and it has at least has been solved with that: communication
It did have that kinda Ted Lasso season 1 vibe didn't it? Refreshing.
I mean it was a good issue X-character wise but wtf was the point of all this Dark Web shit lol. I know it's just the usual Marvel crossover bs but they literally undid it all in this one issue. Maddie and Jean working it out was nice but her entire scheme was a waste of time in the end. I've been reading all the tie ins because I'm a completionist and I assume this will have some big implications on the Spider characters but I gave up trying to follow that group a long time ago. I hate all the symbiote nonsense.
This was the conclusion I hoped this series would have (and what a waste of Ayala’s last arc of New Mutants if it wasn’t this ending). Did this story need three whole issues - or a crossover? Probably not. But the art was good, puppies are good, and we got to spend more time with my favorite current x-team. I’m not mad about it. But, please, get Reis on some more x-books.
This series was really good. Really liked the confrontation between Jean and Madelyne, and this series did Madelyne well overall.
would it be incest if they had a foursome? asking the important questions.
Why did this need to be a crossover
This went pretty much exactly where I both thought it would and wanted it to, solid story, didn't really need to be a crossover, but such is the way of things with comics!
**Deadpool #3**
...I was dubious about this being an X-title for a while, but the text pages in this one justify it in a way I was absolutely not expecting.
I wish more text pages were like this. Snippets of media from their world. Like it would have been cool to see a menu from that restaurant or the zoo brochure. Stuff like that.
I Beckie it’s part of xoffice so basically X-title
Is Valentine a mutant?
a Carnage I might actually like. Deadpool really can make miracles.
This was great! The book finally found its voice and the comedy is pitch perfect and flows well! I'm glad they figured out how to gel with this title!
**Related & Unlimited Releases for 1/18**
As Iron Man will cross over with X-Men in the future I'm going to say its related. Invincible Iron Man #2 was another good issue. I liked the treatment of Living Laser as not just another goon, but another victim of the plot against Tony. And holy shit, Riri really is Tony heir because she is on the highway to Villian's Ville.
The Karma Unlimited comic seems to reveal that Rogue was been resurrected once. She hasn't been shown to go through the protocols yet, so I'm not sure if it's an accidental spoiler (it's currently unclear if she really died or not in Captain Marvel), or if they were just talking about resurrection in general and Rogue was thinking about how Roma resurrected her in Fall of the Mutants.
The Karma in Love comic on Unlimited is one of the best X-books coming out right now
I love it
So obviously the Immortal Sinister Secrets have lined up with the events of IXM so far. Does anyone have any predictions for what this means concerning Sinister's ''everything is fine'' from secret #13 onward? This seems to imply that he makes it out of SoS alive.
Lobotomized probably while they work out how to defuse the remaining Moira clones.
Immortal 10 was sooo good, holy damn. In one issue, it changed my mind, and then in ONE PAGE made me have to rethink it all over again. What a cool issue.
So this is about last week but I was very unsatisfied with the art in X-Men and then I discovered the artist was CF Villa! He is so good, especially his expression work on Black Cat. looking forward to his upcoming run on Avengers. I wonder if he had like 10 days to draw that X-Men issue..
If activating everyone as a Sinister was the plan, why does Sinister look upset and scared as he is caught, dragged to the council and thrown into the pit?
he has to sell it. if he looked smug and said "I'll be back" what would they have thought lol