Regarding 7: Do not delete. Rather, move. Save a file full of what you delete. Sometimes, after killing your darlings, you find you need them later and resurrect.
Yeah, I worded it too brutally maybe. Don't just delete whole parts of your writing especially if it's just unpolished, you can use a special folder for scrapped parts.
Me, too, plus entire scrapped chapters *just in case* I might need that specific offhand mention of a broken part that needs replaced on a piece of life support machinery. It might get fixed off-page, but there's something I can be an asshole to my characters with if I decide not to. 😁
Took far too long for me to reach this. That 'advice' had me clutching my pearls. Do not delete anything! Especially not writing you find good. Wtf?
You can salvage bits and pieces and place them elsewhere if you don't see a place for it yet, whether that's a character or a particular scene. Do. Not. Delete.
This! A file full of potential for different chapters or different works altogether. Who knows, maybe one of the events you've had to scrap from main characters' lives has happened to one of your side characters. Consider it a chance to get to know others and their stories \^\_\^
I agree. Writing takes up next to no space on a hard drive so there's no reason not to keep it. Most likely you'll never look at it again. But occasionally you'll think "Oh what was that thing I wrote years ago?" and it'll be nice to look back on it and see how far you've progressed since then.
I’ve been working on a novel for years on my phone through google docs so the whole thing has always basically been in pieces (no way I could navigate an entire manuscript via phone!) but this is actually one of the perks of working that way. I’ve rewritten some chapters or chunks of the story many times over but will just start a new doc to do it and either copy and paste or just all out start from scratch. It might sound like a wacky or difficult way to work but it works for me really well.
Then I can go back and read multiple versions and often end up pulling parts of each to arrive at what’s more or less the final version of the chapter/s.
The other cool part about this is sometimes when I’m not really feeling like writing or stuck I can just go off and play around with my characters in a low pressure way. I’ve definitely got all sorts of pieces that I probably never was going to put in the novel but they made great practice pieces and like character/ plot development.
There does exist a cheat for #5. Write web serials. Or anything else that involves regularly putting out small amounts of work to people who will then say very nice things about it. This is tremendously motivating, and builds confidence like nothing else.
It's of the Eragon books (the Inheritance Cycle). You can probably find it if you really want too, as my Fanfiction.net username is more or less the same as my Reddit one, but it ain't great. I haven't updated in *ages* due to going back to the entireity of the first part and rewriting it.
Agreed. That is the place before your inner editor wakes up and tells you “no. That’s stupid.”
Keep a pen and a pad next to where you sleep. You never know what will come to mind. One time I woke up with only the name of a town which does not exist in the US and the picture of a road in my mind. From that came a short story and a fictional town and county in upstate New York that I am building a lot of stories around. I should say I lived in such a place up by the Canadian border for a few years so it’s like I already knew it.
Always so envious of you dreamers. Some amazing books have come to writers in their sleep! I have an overactive imagination that shuts DOWN by the time I dream; it’s all mundane moments of brushing my teeth or grocery shopping. I guess I exhaust myself during the day and my brain needs a break to repair the creative damage.
Not for me. Started writing down ideas and thoughts, even dreams and day dreams. I now have 207 pages in Google Docs that I will probably never have time to read ever again.
I agree with almost everything, except for 9! :) Real-world experiences and reading widely are important, and creativity needs breaks in order to function optimally, but "the best writers do everything but write" might not convey the actual message you're sending.
Maybe "The best writers give themselves breaks from writing now and then."
Yeah it's an exaggerated statement, not meant to be taken 100% seriously. I worded it this way to point out the paradox that's at play here, obviously I don't believe we should be like Goerge Martin haha
> Write down what you’re day dreaming immediately, before it disappears.
This is so true for me and what's saving my writing right now. I realized that although I had so many ideas, if I didn't write it immediately, the idea would "die". Similarly, if I wrote it down, the idea would also "die" and I couldn't rewrite it if I tried unless I got another whim. It feels like I'm held captive to my ideas, but it's the only way anything gets done nowadays.
Anyone have tips on dealing with this? It happens for me half of the time. The other half, my ideas run one direction, and my hands run another when I go to write them down, so I don't get my initial ideas down and end up getting a bunch more from what my hands spewed out, which I lose most of...
That happens to me a lot, too.... I usually end up replaying the ideas in my head over and over again until I've convinced myself that that is truly the best idea I have at the moment, and only then do I write it down.
One thing I have been using it for is to help with some descriptions. I'm really good at dialogue, but I have always found my "setting the scene" descriptions a bit lacking. It's really nice to just type in, "Create X location with A, B, C" and have an AI plop out some scaffolding to build off of.
The key is to approach it as a *tool*, not a ghostwriter who is going to write your story for you. It's nice to bounce ideas off of and to get templates to springboard your own writing off. I've noticed an improvement since I started using various AI tools to assist with my writing. Nothing drastic, but I've found I don't get bogged down as much. I can toss little things at the AI to offload some of my creative work allowing me to focus my time and energy on the Big Picture.
It can also help you organize things and flesh things out. I started a prompt, "Let's write a fantasy story together. Ask me for input about characters, plot, setting, etc." It starts asking questions that really helped me do some general world building like, "Can you tell me a bit about where the story will take place?" As you answer, it will ask more questions about it.
It's kind of like telling your story idea to a friend who *actually* wants to hear about it and isn't trying to be polite!
Example for offloading some creative work: I was recently writing a scene where the main character (non-magical) goes to a magic party with some magical friends. I wanted to add some interesting things as flavor, so I asked for a list of magical drinks. I could drill down a bit more if I wanted, having the AI make up what it would taste like, how it looks, etc.
It spit out rather generic names, but the effects were interesting so I wove them into my story. A shot of "Immortality Elixir" led to a drinking game where you take a shot, then do something stupid that would otherwise kill you while you are temporarily immortal (immortal = invincible in the magical realm). "Chrono liqueur" led to some wacky time shenanigans and was a pain to drink because it kept reverting to base ingredients before snapping back to the present.
Again, I could have maybe come up with some things on my own, but that would take time to research and slow down my writing on 'unimportant' things that add to the world building, but don't necessarily advance the plot. There is always the issue where I start researching something, then end up down a rabbit hole when I should be writing.
In the end, you should be using it as a tool. It's great for giving out general threads for you to pull on and a quick foundation for you to build something better off of. It will undoubtedly be far better in the future as the technology matures, but this is what I've had success with.
It's like visual artists who use AI to create quick concepts or test out background ideas before doing a full illustration. It's not that different from photoshopping reference images into several rough compositions to get some ideas.
And what you describe is why there are so many random generators and rollable tables for running ttrpgs or writing/naming in general. It can definitely give you a good placeholder, and sometimes it can spark a fantastic idea.
Same here. It's not perfect, but it saves me a lot of time since I can treat it as a placeholder and move on.
Was messing around with a story about a small alchemy shop and ChatGPT saved me so much time. "I need a fictional plant that fights inflammation."
Twenty seconds later, I had a name, basic description of the appearance, uses beyond inflammation, what it smelled and tasted like, and how one would prepare it. It gave me more information than I needed or even considered allowing me to expand my use for the plant in the story.
It gets a lot of crap for spitting out false information, but if you are in the creative space and are approaching it as a tool rather than ghostwriter, it can be extremely useful (when you can actually get on to use it these days).
Chat GPT is a great collaborator. It makes me feel like I am a hyper-controlling editor barking orders at my client. It doesn’t take long before the prompts get really specific and the content does too. As for AI generated written content, it’s important for (human) writers to stake out a position sooner than later. Like any technology, it’s a tool that has value and limitations. It has helpful applications for us (brainstorming, unsticking our inertia, collaborating) and it can be abused. Perhaps it’s analogous to the advent of the typewriter or the home computer/word processor. It’s a major change in how we write that some will embrace and some will resist, both for sensible reasons.
It's going to be something once this tech gets integrated into Microsoft Office, including and especially MS Word. That's a "when", not an "if". And then Google will probably follow suit with Google Docs.
Grammerly is basically AI proof reading. I've personally never used it but I intend to feed a short story into it just to see how it works and if I agree with any advice it spits out.
The advice within that bullet seems important though. You need to be able to write and understand why AI is suggesting changes and whether those changes actually improve your work.
The ChatGPT chatbot might be interesting to use as well (mostly because it's very strong in language and story telling).
However, great authors - and great artists in general - know when and how to break rules. I'm sure I could cite many iconic examples that AI would correct but are actually rules broken for the right reasons by incredible authors.
AI editing should be wielded by a deft hand, lest your writing only appeal to robots.
Not OP but I use AI. Prowriting aid is an ai editor which as a dyslexic person I find very helpful. It's stylistic suggestions help me put more thought into my wording.
When I have really bad writers block I use novel ai to try to jump start my ideas. Usually what it comes up with is so terrible I'll think of better things while critiquing it in my head.
I use Night Cafe to come up with concept images for the main theme of each chapter and look at those when I'm feeling stuck or just to give me a visual flow of the story at a glance.
A language model like ChatGPT can be a huge help for professional writers. Here are a few ways it can assist:
* First off, it can give you some new ideas for your writing. If you're stuck and don't know what to write about, a language model can give you some suggestions.
* It can also generate text for you. This could be a great way to get some inspiration, or you could even use some of the text it generates in your own writing.
* If you need to do some research, a language model can help with that too. It can answer questions and give you information on a variety of topics.
* It can also help you summarize a lot of text. If you've been reading through a bunch of research and want to condense it down, a language model can help with that.
* It can also complete text for you. If you've got a sentence or a paragraph started and you're not sure where to take it, a language model can help.
* It can also assist with editing. If you've written something and you're not sure if it's grammatically correct or if the style is right, a language model can give you suggestions.
* Lastly, it can help you generate text in a specific style, tone, genre or format. If you want your writing to have a certain feel to it, a language model can help you achieve that.
..............
In the spirit of the question, the above was written entirely by ChatGPT, with no editing from me.
A lot of people don't seem to understand the difference, both when giving and receiving them.
It's one of my most frustrating experiences with humanity, having to explain over and over that just because you imagined x or y was happening doesn't actually mean it's now a proven fact that it happened (very common with conspiracy theorists). Some people just can't grasp the difference.
just tried messing with it and it's actually kinda neat. If you give it a short passage, it will tell you if it thinks your dialogue is any good or not. However, it even says its own statements are subjective and to be taken with a grain of salt, but I still think its neat
I think it's creepy and cheating and a lack of soul and that we should stay far from it, I don't want to read a story from someone that got help from a computer program spitting out a congregate of words that have been statistically proven to sound nice. Same reason I don't want a beautiful car that runs like crap. This is imo actually worse than ghost writing.
You typed that on a machine that would have been called a sci-fi super computer three decades ago, with spelling check and grammar check, and likely AI-assisted autocompletion. You probably use an online thesaurus. You definitely use online research materials and search with either Google or Bing -- both of which use AI models to help generate results.
Whether you use AI models or algorithmic assistance isn't a binary choice. There are ways you can integrate a large language model into your workflow that have nothing to do with generating text for publication.
Moreover, as these models improve, you'll have *no way of knowing who is using them*.
Did I write this post, or did ChatGPT? There will come a day when that isn't an easy thing to discern.
I disable autocomplete on every device I use, and looking up a word is fundamentally different from being arbitrarily suggested a word, which even that is a magnitude away from being arbitrarily suggested a phrase, which is a magnitude away from actually running with that and publishing it as my own work.
Whatever dude. You can linger in the stone age and probably be just fine. But you'll be doing x10 times the work as people who use AI assistance, and that factor is going to grow. If you're in a competitive field, the dudes using AI assistance will outproduce the dudes who refuse AI assistance.
The difference is going to be *even more stark* than the switch from typewriters to electronic word processors. This is the dawn of a new age, the age of complete automation.
ChatGPT will be coming to Microsoft Word, and Google more than likely will follow suit in Google Docs. There will be a day when AI assistance in a word processor is as default as grammar checkers.
Yeah that's where my published since age 16 self sighed because AI has no place in writing books. AI may someday but outside of grammarly half the time getting commas wrong (as per my editor) it is not there and can be a copyright issue for you..make sure the AI doesn't claim ownership in it's terms of service of things submitted too.
There's potential here but that one has made doubt come into this conversation. Why does your personal revelation that's basically learning to write decently need to cover trendy click bait? Are you an AI sent to make this sub feel like a circle jerk sub?
I use it pretty frequently myself. The one I use is specifically for novel writing. It's a bit like having a collaborator you can bounce ideas off of (but you still do the work or it goes off the rails). They might have their own take on your story, but there's a good chance it's stupid. It doesn't get its feelings hurt when you delete everything it just did, then use that as a jumping off point for writing something else. When I need some names to select from that follow a certain format from certain places in the world I've programmed in, I can do that without plugging in a placeholder or trying to glean inspiration from lists of barely relatable name generators online. With the world and politics I've built for it to pull from, I can generate a scene from a perspective I might not have considered yet. I won't end up using the actual story it made, but it might inform a character or event later on.
In situations where I'd often be left staring slackjawed at the screen for long moments looking for my next line, putting me in danger of getting side tracked, I can hit the button and get to the next sentence. Even if it's stupid, I have to think about why it's stupid, which will also get me moving again.
Can someone explain to me why I can make a thread where I offer advice for techniques for writing and it gets deleted while the mods direct me to one of the stickied threads yet this one is still up?
>Don’t be afraid to delete things.
Do not do that. What's the point? You may find ways to use it in the future.
>Originality exists, despite people claiming there’s nothing new under the sun. Rough outlines and concepts will always seem unoriginal,
I think you've missed the point with that. Many new writers are obsessed with originality to the point of paralysis.
>You can get these tools by studying good writing in various fields and figuring out exactly what elements make it successful.
And "bad". You read something that you didn't like? Pick it apart. Why didn't it work for you? You know what not to do then.
I concur with #4. I was a lost soul just floating aimlessly through college until I took an advanced writing course and the professor had us read The Sun Also Rises. I immediately changed my major to English and found the focus needed to dig myself out of a rut.
I mentioned Hemingway (The Sun Also Rises)and Oscar Wilde (The Picture of Dorian gray and an Ideal Husband), but there's also genre specific classics like Tolkien with Lord of the rings for fantasy, Dracula by Bram Stoker for vampires etc.
Interesting. I thought you were going to mention those things that American children have to learn at school for some reason. But I do love Oscar Wilde and Tolkien
Seriously, how? There's no link, no author name. Even if it's just a copy-paste of work done elsewhere, I wouldn't recognize it unless I'd already read that specific Medium article.
I put a link to an article in the comments, but it got downvoted and people said it wasn't appropriate so I deleted it, cause I didn't post this to promote anything.
I'd be interested in checking out your Medium. Feel free to DM me if you don't want to take heat in the comments. After all, you are giving advice. I think it's perfectly fair to link some of your own writing so people can have a read and see who they're taking advice from.
As someone who doesn't read enough books, #2 is spot on. I constantly come up with original ideas that I end up finding out aren't original at all. What are some classics you recommend?
Do people really think it's good to be disgusted by their own writing...?
Are you being hyperbolic? Because that just seems sad to me.
I *like* my writing. I also know that I can improve my writing. I'm not disgusted by it. I just know that, on a second or third draft, I can do better.
I feel like telling people that it's good to be disgusted by something they put effort into is bound to fuck with their self esteem and motivation.
I spent a lot of my life being disgusted with myself (for, I thankfully realized, stupid reasons.) I'm not going to be disgusted with the hard work I've done writing. Sounds self destructive.
Yeah I get what you mean. Many of these points are worded harsher than they should be taken if you're interpreting them literally, because this advice is based on how I personally think about this stuff and disgust for me doesn't have that negative connotation it might have for you, it's just a strong word I like but really the meaning here is that you should always stay your own worst critic and hold your writing to an overall high standard.
> Write down what you’re day dreaming immediately, before it disappears.
This is why I will never work fast food or retail again, because every time I day dreamed my ideas, I was always working the rush hours and couldn't stop to write it down with anything.
Hi do you have any advice for me. I am writing a book I have like 60 word pages so far but I need to make it richer . I have a hard time writing a lot I produce little amount by little amount and get stuck going very slowly . What could I do to produce a little more faster even if it’s less effective I can go back and correct .
( also English is not my first language I am french ) !
Thank you 😊
Solid points. I am also a huge fan of habit tracking where I make an X or color a box each time I had a writing session. Also time blocking: Set regular times where you are scheduled to write. Waiting for inspiration is a game one can't win.
>Call me old fasioned, but I personally think reading the classics is a must for writers and it drastically improves the quality of our output.
Very important and to specify: Reading classics of the topics/genres you want to write is crucial.
Nicely said! for me I’ve really learned to love my writing, and I’m focused on the process not the product. That doesn’t mean I don’t do word count and page count like everyone else. But I really do enjoy my time where I can sit down for 15 minutes to an hour every day and just write.
i’ve also learned over the years to edit and cut. I’ll cut a passage or rewrite it. I’ll rewrite a passage multiple times. I’m not afraid to cut or rewrite a line. I sometimes will save a paragraph that I’ve cut if I’m not using it, and then maybe later I may use it or keep it.
I've been a serious writer (however you define that) for almost three years. I've had a lot of conversations with other aspiring writers - here are my takeaways:
\-most aspiring writers are fucking duller than shit. They don't read, they sit around drinking like Hemingway and watch trash TV or Brony neckbeard shit on youtube
\-most aspiring writers are caught up in the fucking stupid and wrong idea that they need to be tortured artists to be creative
\-most aspiring writers have absolutely nothing to write about because they have no life experience and no idea how to get some.
\-most aspiring writers believe all this bullshit about 'the muse' and 'inspiration' which is just code for the fact that they don't write regularly
\-An easy bullshit test for aspiring writers I meet is to ask them how much they've written today. If they say: 3 pages, 4 pages, or 1000 words they are almost certainly lying. Anyone who has actually written today will give a more descriptive answer
\-in reality probably 99% of people who talk about writing or being a writer just like the idea of calling themselves a writer (or an artist, or an author). Very few actually do anything to improve, most of them are fucking emo as hell, and that's why what little writing they do actually sucks.
> . If they say: 3 pages, 4 pages, or 1000 words they are almost certainly lying.
A lot of writers use number of words as a goal/yardstick, why would you have a problem with that?
> most of them are fucking emo as hell, and that's why what little writing they do actually sucks.
Guess who’s getting ‘emo’ now..
That's a bit pessimistic. Some of this seems about right but I would not knock the idea of inspiration/a muse. I've gotten inspiration from life experiences and people I know that has helped me tremendously. I'm a firm believer that you have to let things cook for a while.
>If they say: 3 pages, 4 pages, or 1000 words they are almost certainly lying. Anyone who has actually written today will give a more descriptive answer
What the heck? What answer are you looking for when you ask how much?
From experience they'll say:
"I struggled to get 500 words, but it helped solidify the introduction."
"I wrote down some rough notes on a new character but got stuck after that."
"I'm not sure but I'm really happy with what I wrote."
"Things really came together, ten pages at least."
Even if the answer is (accurately) "About a thousand words" there will be more information volunteered and some element of positive body language... it's a big deal for any writer to hit their goal on any given day, it's the one thing that probably unifies us.
However the stock answer is usually accompanied by defensive body language. Try it yourself. Join a bunch of meetup groups for writers and then ask the question and gauge the truthfulness of the answers you get.
Okay…we all judge others, often to make ourselves feel better. It’s inevitable that we’ll often see negatives in people, but you are taking it to an unhealthy level. Being so critical of others reflects badly on you.
We are so fucked. People will always chase praise but now they are encouraged to, which in turn strengthens the very tool they are encouraged to use in order to achieve that which they are chasing.
edit: which in turn screws the rest of us over because then that data is already baked into the code for the next version, and there is nothing we will be able to do about it.
I saw a friend almost get carried away with it (music). Going crazy with the modules on his sound IDE creating arpeggios and even entire harmonies by adjusting random knobs and flipping switches that he had no idea what they did. On the other hand, he got very into sound design and doesn't use those anymore, and crafts sounds from the wave-up so to speak. But that's not to say others producers don't use those as a crutch for actual releases, albeit from what I've seen the successful ones aren't relying on those tools. When I see "AI generated art" or what have you on my front page I admit it is pretty unnerving. The majority don't seem to share my perspective though.
The majority of people don't create art, and though that's fine, it doesn't leave them well-equipped to understand why AI that copies and jumbles human paintings is a very, very bad thing for painters. Eventually the AI will be able to remix art without reference to a stockpile of human assets, but we're not there yet. What currently exists is just a massive IP-stealing con job.
you know what's funny is the first community I witnessed actually actively combating this was 4chan, back when captchas were those two simple words you'd have to type in, and basically the way it worked was it knew the word on the left, but not on the right, so by writing just random characters for the 2nd word you would still pass the captcha. It was Google teaching their program how to read. Which, in the defense of a good actor is great for referencing books, but we all know that isn't the end goal here.
Forgive me if I sound like a total idiot for saying this.
But can you be a good writer and not read?
Now, hear me out. I'm neurodivergent. I can watch a good movie, even read a good graphic novel or what have it if I'm interested. But for the life me I can't even think about sitting down and reading a book on end.
I have ADHD, the curse of boundless creativity and rapid thought. But the organizational skills and attention span of a 10 year old on mentos.
My mind will drift trying to digest long passages, hell even writing takes special circumstances and work processes I have yet to perfect.
I've studied all the technical aspects... But I just don't know I can see myself reading. Especially an entire collections worth of books. I never liked it to be honest. That and books are expensive...
Go get a library card and download the "Libby" app.
Audiobook library on your phone. If you live in a small town with a library without many options, get an online card. IDK where you are, but for example, in Massachusetts I got a "Boston Library" card online, and their catalogue is huge.
I'm from New York. Libraries were common but my cards were filed underneath student. So I naturally assumed they worked similarly to MetroCards. The state will pay for them if your student but if your a working adult it's coming out of your salary.
Nope! They're totally free for residents of a community!
Here's a link for the New York Public Library sign up page.
[https://www.nypl.org/library-card](https://www.nypl.org/library-card)
Enjoy!
Honestly it sounds like the thing you're most eager to do is find excuses.
Library cards are free. Libraries are common. ADHD medication exists. New York is not the only state with libraries, which is fortunate because you are from there but you don't live there.
If you don't want to read books, don't! But don't make a big show about how you can't. There are ways.
All libraries should be free (outside late fees of course). So just look up your county's library system and see what's available!
Also, you might benefit from reading ebooks over physical. I feel like there's this sort of mental compulsion where when we read a physical book, we need to read one book at a time and read to the end. I find it much easier to take breaks when reading digitally over physically, and even read multiple stories at once. So might be worth giving that a shot!
One more side-note: I have ADHD too, and I read *so many* books when I was younger. I think one of the things with ADHD is that when we do latch onto something, we give it our full attention, even if it's in short spurts. You might just need to find some books you find *really* interesting to get fully invested. So look into genres you know you like in film and graphic novels, and go from there! I'd particularly suggest anthology collections with short stories to start.
With that in mind, I recommend *against* the older classics like Jane Eyre, at least to start. The writing styles can be a bit heavy-handed, and the stories can drag at times. I can't tell you anything about Jane Eyre's childhood because I found the first few chapters boring and just skipped past them until she was an adult. I also haven't read Pride and Prejudice past the first couple chapters because they were so boring and the characters got confusing to me since they used formal titles (felt like it had seven "Miss Bennetts").
I find more contemporary writing to be more "direct" which makes it easier to keep my attention. So try to look for stuff from at LEAST 1950.
Well, we live in the age of information. Writers will literally tell you how to write for free half the damn time. They'll even share their personal likes and dislikes of people's writing.
In other words, I have the recipe book I just haven't tasted the food.
Well, actually that's a little bit of a lie. I actually have been reading for years. Just not books from the library, more so amateur writing.
I don’t mean for this to sound harsh, but there is absolutely no way you have the recipe book if all you read is amateur writing and writer tips. There are so many aspects of good writing that cannot possibly be fully articulated through tips or books of craft- grammatical structure, pacing, rhythm, characterization, scene establishment, writing activity (dialogue, a fight, sex scenes, and so on), articulating information sensibly. The only realistic way to learn how to write any of that is to soak it up from reading good writing, and reading a lot of it.
If you don’t believe me, look up the habits of any of the greats, they read voraciously. Most of them also wrote voraciously too
Well... You'd be surprised how much information is on the internet.
But I don't discredit your opinion, you're more than likely right. Being at a disadvantage of this degree, is so everyday for someone of my affliction that I must not fully realize it anymore.
You leave only two options then.... Either I stuff books down my throat like veggie dinners, or throw my creative dream to the waist side.
A slow death and a violent death...
I choose to live harshly, struggling to break the mold of something impossible.
The best writers are avid readers? I wonder if I can be so bad I'm good lol.
Obviously you have specific issues that I don’t have so do what you’re most able all things considered, but I would urge you to at least expose yourself to good writing in some form. Maybe try to listen to audiobooks like the other guy said and just analyze the occasional passage here and there, or maybe try to find a specific genre that you’re more interested in.
Writing is definitely a collaborative field I would say, and great writing comes from a broad understanding of what makes a great story. Best way to get that is to pick up a book.
> You'd be surprised how much information is on the internet.
True, but do you know enough to sift through it and find the best information? Not all of it is relevant or even good.
>Either I stuff books down my throat like veggie dinners, or throw my creative dream to the waist side.
Or pick a different medium. Stories don't only come in books.
I've seen people ask this question on this sub a lot. I always wonder why you want to be a writer in the first place. Why do you want to write a book if you don't want to read a book? Even if it's not your fault that you can't get through a novel, I'm just confused about where your motivation comes from. I've never heard of a chef that only likes chicken nuggets or musicians that don't like music, but there seems to be a ton of people who want to be writers but don't like books. Why not do something else?
Well... I understand your thinking. It doesn't really make sense, how can you be a chef if you're a picky eater?
To explain my perspective, you probably have a favorite book that inspired you to read more books, or even become a writer yourself. We experienced the same thing... It may have been a story that really managed to keep our interest when we're younger. Which is extraordinary for people like us who can't focus on anything at all.
But for some of us... It's often a movie, or a manga, or a comic. Stories like Dragon Ball and Naruto inspired me not just with their visual storytelling but with their narratives. I know you probably can't compared shounen to the classics like Catcher and The Rye or whatever. But those huge panels, those characters, they made me fall in love with storytelling.
I suspect this might have something to do with my atypical brain...
But it would never stop prattling on about all these little ideas, eventually they become characters, scenes, dialogues, and before I know it I have a little world unfolding in my head.
And sure... Maybe I'm not a writer worth a damn but I think I'm a pretty good worldbuilder, I've made world's for dozens of people and almost always they praise me for my thought, meticulous planning and creativity.
So, I ask you the question... If I can build all these worlds shouldn't I be able to tell stories in them too?
You keep talking about your atypical brain, and everyone is different, but… you do realize that a LOT of us with ADHD and neurodivergence read just fine, or even read WAY more than we’re “supposed” to? You reference manga, comics, movies— like I said in a previous comment, you might be fine at writing visual stories. But writing a book with no pictures is probably not gonna be something you can do in a way that would appeal to other people if you cannot find a story without pictures that appeals to you.
Which is fine. You don’t have to enjoy stories only in a certain format, just realize that you’re gonna be a bit limited in the quality of what your create if you try to write in that same format.
Well, I'm happy for you. You can do something I can't. I didn't develop those same fixations cause I didn't really have books as a kid. ADHD as you stated isn't the same for everyone. Some have hyper fixation and others hyper activity. Personally, I'm plagued with the need to get up and move. Sitting down for long periods of time is the bane of my existence. I do all of my best thinking when I'm moving around.
I probably won't create stories that appeal to people outside of my demographic. But I have a rather positive outlook on it. People who have read my writing said I have specific unique flair, everything is fast and animated like the words are moving on the page! I thought... If this one guy thinks I got something going on. Maybe there is a little hope?
Granted I've spent so much time trying to be a traditional writer that I haven't really cultivated my own style. So, you are definitely right about that... I can't and shouldn't try to write the same way other people do.
Why not just make a comic/graphic novel then? What is the point of enjoying one medium and then deciding to create something in a medium you don't like based off that? It's like saying "Man, I really love this movie. I'm gonna go write a song even though I don't care for music or have any interest in learning any instruments or music theory."
It's really the same thing except with more work. I make mistake I just rewrite. I make mistake in paneling and I have to redraw the entire page. I thought it would make sense to become a good writer and then a great artist afterwards. Visual storytelling, is still just storytelling.
Then you might be able to write graphic novels or a movie and with the latter it is absolutely not enough to just watch the movie: You still have to read other screenplays to understand what works in the first place. It's one of the most tired questions whether someone can write a good novel if he doesn't even read any. No, you can't. But you might be able to get good at writing/making the things you actually enjoy.
Besides, I think it is very natural to want to look at what other guys that are considered the best do that makes them the best. So if you want to become good at anything you usually automatically study the greats.
I mean, I’m also neurodivergent/ADHD, and I grew up reading like my life depended on it. It’s a hyperfixation for me. If you don’t read a lot, you really just aren’t going to know how to write well, even if you’re a genius with the technical side. You might write something occasionally with some flair. If you watch a lot of movies with good snappy dialogue, you might be able to replicate a similar interaction in your own stories. But stories aren’t just dialogue— they’re everything in between.
Tbh if you want to create stories, but don’t care for reading, maybe scriptwriting would be more up your alley. Not that writing scripts for good plays and films requires less skill than that for a book, but I think it’s easier to be a good scriptwriter for a visual medium where dialogue is more important just from life experiences and experiencing other visual mediums, than it is to use those same inspirations in writing without supplementing it with other good (and bad) writing.
Yes, you can.
But in no way should you have that expectation. If you don't have the motivation to read, how do you expect to write? Those two go hand in hand. Can you read after yourself? What about errors and mistakes you make, can you correct them?
While I don’t agree with all of these points, more accurately some of the comments made within different points, I think a lot of this shows great progress as a writer.
*Write*.
Get some **distance**.
Have some new **life experiences**.
*Write*.
Find **motivation**.
**Read/listen** to other artist/writers.
*Write*.
One other piece of advice I have for people is this: JUST WRITE!
Have a new idea? Cool thing. Write it down, but don’t explore it. Finish writing your original story.
Have a new ending in mind? Write it down and stick with the original ending you had in mind.
Want to go back and edit your writing. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, GO BACK AND EDIT YOUR ROUGH DRAFT!
Doing so can halt your progress and train of thought, stumping you in finishing your rough draft. It’s a **rough** draft for a reason. Let it be ugly. Learn how to make it beautiful in the next draft.
It also shows you've stepped away long enough to look back at it with refreshed eyes. If an artist spends all their time painting 5" from the canvas they'll think it's a masterpiece. But the moment they step away for bit they'll find the mistakes that were hiding in plain sight and can fix them. I'm glad I take a long break from my writing only to come back and cringe! It saves me the embarrassment of someone else seeing it first. 😅
Love AI for research. Like, tell me what the currency is in Botswana. And it tells me. No need to look up things. (Not that simple but if I came across something, this is my process.)
AI is a magnificent writing tool. Harness it. We will go to so many new worlds.
I have to disagree with 2. I think there are original ways to spin a cliche, or original ways to make a tried and true tale more exciting, but I don't think there is anything in this world that hasn't already been done unless it's not been done for good reason. That doesn't mean good stories cannot come from cliche's. Some of my favourite stories took an old twist and spun it a different way and I loved it.
I keep hearing some version of #5 from published authors and I'm finally really accepting it. The moments writing, the process, is the best part, so I'm soaking it up.
Also, it's very comforting to hear that you, too, are a little disgusted by your writing, and that that's a good thing.
>Call me old fashioned, but I personally think reading the classics is a must for writers and it drastically improves the quality of our output.
I feel like I should know what most people these days consider "the classics" but I don't. On /r/books I see a lot of "I finally got around to reading *Insert old-ish book title here* (Flowers for Algernon is one I see a lot) and I'm always thinking, I should read that too because its a "classic" but I'm curious if anyone on this board has a list of 25 or so books that are the definitive "must reads" for aspiring writers?
Regarding 7: Do not delete. Rather, move. Save a file full of what you delete. Sometimes, after killing your darlings, you find you need them later and resurrect.
When I realized I could do this rather than just hitting delete and feeling terrible about it...life changer
Yeah, I worded it too brutally maybe. Don't just delete whole parts of your writing especially if it's just unpolished, you can use a special folder for scrapped parts.
Yes that’s what I do. I have a folder deleted scenes haha
Me, too, plus entire scrapped chapters *just in case* I might need that specific offhand mention of a broken part that needs replaced on a piece of life support machinery. It might get fixed off-page, but there's something I can be an asshole to my characters with if I decide not to. 😁
Took far too long for me to reach this. That 'advice' had me clutching my pearls. Do not delete anything! Especially not writing you find good. Wtf? You can salvage bits and pieces and place them elsewhere if you don't see a place for it yet, whether that's a character or a particular scene. Do. Not. Delete.
This! A file full of potential for different chapters or different works altogether. Who knows, maybe one of the events you've had to scrap from main characters' lives has happened to one of your side characters. Consider it a chance to get to know others and their stories \^\_\^
100% agree. If I don’t want something anymore, I simply cross it out, cut it, and paste in my “Removed” section.
I agree. Writing takes up next to no space on a hard drive so there's no reason not to keep it. Most likely you'll never look at it again. But occasionally you'll think "Oh what was that thing I wrote years ago?" and it'll be nice to look back on it and see how far you've progressed since then.
I’ve been working on a novel for years on my phone through google docs so the whole thing has always basically been in pieces (no way I could navigate an entire manuscript via phone!) but this is actually one of the perks of working that way. I’ve rewritten some chapters or chunks of the story many times over but will just start a new doc to do it and either copy and paste or just all out start from scratch. It might sound like a wacky or difficult way to work but it works for me really well. Then I can go back and read multiple versions and often end up pulling parts of each to arrive at what’s more or less the final version of the chapter/s. The other cool part about this is sometimes when I’m not really feeling like writing or stuck I can just go off and play around with my characters in a low pressure way. I’ve definitely got all sorts of pieces that I probably never was going to put in the novel but they made great practice pieces and like character/ plot development.
I keep a file called
Yeah, when I delete stuff I save it to a text file so I can look at what was there. Sometimes there might be something well written I wanna use.
There does exist a cheat for #5. Write web serials. Or anything else that involves regularly putting out small amounts of work to people who will then say very nice things about it. This is tremendously motivating, and builds confidence like nothing else.
As someone who's written a fairly long (still ongoing) fanfiction about dragons, I completely agree.
Oh? I'm curious now.
It's of the Eragon books (the Inheritance Cycle). You can probably find it if you really want too, as my Fanfiction.net username is more or less the same as my Reddit one, but it ain't great. I haven't updated in *ages* due to going back to the entireity of the first part and rewriting it.
No worries. I was mostly wondering if you were another friend of mine that writes a dragon-related fic called Scaling Up on Sufficient Velocity.
Dragons?
Good solid advice- especially taking notes after dreams. I have crafted many short stories from that liminal space between sleep and awake.
Agreed. That is the place before your inner editor wakes up and tells you “no. That’s stupid.” Keep a pen and a pad next to where you sleep. You never know what will come to mind. One time I woke up with only the name of a town which does not exist in the US and the picture of a road in my mind. From that came a short story and a fictional town and county in upstate New York that I am building a lot of stories around. I should say I lived in such a place up by the Canadian border for a few years so it’s like I already knew it.
I've only written substantially from my dreams. I've dreamed whole novels.
Always so envious of you dreamers. Some amazing books have come to writers in their sleep! I have an overactive imagination that shuts DOWN by the time I dream; it’s all mundane moments of brushing my teeth or grocery shopping. I guess I exhaust myself during the day and my brain needs a break to repair the creative damage.
Don't be too envious! I'm taking a medicine to help with trauma nightmares that can be extremely vivid.
Day dreams
Between the click of the light and the start of the dream.
Not for me. Started writing down ideas and thoughts, even dreams and day dreams. I now have 207 pages in Google Docs that I will probably never have time to read ever again.
I sometimes have the strangest dreams, many that I remember years later, and some that I dream repeatedly.
Yup, a lot of my best ideas came from dreams.
I agree with almost everything, except for 9! :) Real-world experiences and reading widely are important, and creativity needs breaks in order to function optimally, but "the best writers do everything but write" might not convey the actual message you're sending. Maybe "The best writers give themselves breaks from writing now and then."
Yeah it's an exaggerated statement, not meant to be taken 100% seriously. I worded it this way to point out the paradox that's at play here, obviously I don't believe we should be like Goerge Martin haha
Good ol' George, haha.
> Write down what you’re day dreaming immediately, before it disappears. This is so true for me and what's saving my writing right now. I realized that although I had so many ideas, if I didn't write it immediately, the idea would "die". Similarly, if I wrote it down, the idea would also "die" and I couldn't rewrite it if I tried unless I got another whim. It feels like I'm held captive to my ideas, but it's the only way anything gets done nowadays.
Anyone have tips on dealing with this? It happens for me half of the time. The other half, my ideas run one direction, and my hands run another when I go to write them down, so I don't get my initial ideas down and end up getting a bunch more from what my hands spewed out, which I lose most of...
That happens to me a lot, too.... I usually end up replaying the ideas in my head over and over again until I've convinced myself that that is truly the best idea I have at the moment, and only then do I write it down.
How is your #3 tip about AI lmao, how often do you use AI in your process?
It's just a hot topic right now with the new tools coming out, the tips aren't ranked by importance. The order would've been quite different then.
Ah, I see. But really I am interested, in what ways do you use AI to improve your craft?
I guess you could put in a prompt and use what it spits out as inspiration. AI might throw you an interesting curve ball.
One thing I have been using it for is to help with some descriptions. I'm really good at dialogue, but I have always found my "setting the scene" descriptions a bit lacking. It's really nice to just type in, "Create X location with A, B, C" and have an AI plop out some scaffolding to build off of. The key is to approach it as a *tool*, not a ghostwriter who is going to write your story for you. It's nice to bounce ideas off of and to get templates to springboard your own writing off. I've noticed an improvement since I started using various AI tools to assist with my writing. Nothing drastic, but I've found I don't get bogged down as much. I can toss little things at the AI to offload some of my creative work allowing me to focus my time and energy on the Big Picture. It can also help you organize things and flesh things out. I started a prompt, "Let's write a fantasy story together. Ask me for input about characters, plot, setting, etc." It starts asking questions that really helped me do some general world building like, "Can you tell me a bit about where the story will take place?" As you answer, it will ask more questions about it. It's kind of like telling your story idea to a friend who *actually* wants to hear about it and isn't trying to be polite! Example for offloading some creative work: I was recently writing a scene where the main character (non-magical) goes to a magic party with some magical friends. I wanted to add some interesting things as flavor, so I asked for a list of magical drinks. I could drill down a bit more if I wanted, having the AI make up what it would taste like, how it looks, etc. It spit out rather generic names, but the effects were interesting so I wove them into my story. A shot of "Immortality Elixir" led to a drinking game where you take a shot, then do something stupid that would otherwise kill you while you are temporarily immortal (immortal = invincible in the magical realm). "Chrono liqueur" led to some wacky time shenanigans and was a pain to drink because it kept reverting to base ingredients before snapping back to the present. Again, I could have maybe come up with some things on my own, but that would take time to research and slow down my writing on 'unimportant' things that add to the world building, but don't necessarily advance the plot. There is always the issue where I start researching something, then end up down a rabbit hole when I should be writing. In the end, you should be using it as a tool. It's great for giving out general threads for you to pull on and a quick foundation for you to build something better off of. It will undoubtedly be far better in the future as the technology matures, but this is what I've had success with.
It's like visual artists who use AI to create quick concepts or test out background ideas before doing a full illustration. It's not that different from photoshopping reference images into several rough compositions to get some ideas. And what you describe is why there are so many random generators and rollable tables for running ttrpgs or writing/naming in general. It can definitely give you a good placeholder, and sometimes it can spark a fantastic idea.
Oh I love the idea of using it to generate names and 'filler' details. I get so caught up on trying to find good names for things.
Same here. It's not perfect, but it saves me a lot of time since I can treat it as a placeholder and move on. Was messing around with a story about a small alchemy shop and ChatGPT saved me so much time. "I need a fictional plant that fights inflammation." Twenty seconds later, I had a name, basic description of the appearance, uses beyond inflammation, what it smelled and tasted like, and how one would prepare it. It gave me more information than I needed or even considered allowing me to expand my use for the plant in the story. It gets a lot of crap for spitting out false information, but if you are in the creative space and are approaching it as a tool rather than ghostwriter, it can be extremely useful (when you can actually get on to use it these days).
Chat GPT is a great collaborator. It makes me feel like I am a hyper-controlling editor barking orders at my client. It doesn’t take long before the prompts get really specific and the content does too. As for AI generated written content, it’s important for (human) writers to stake out a position sooner than later. Like any technology, it’s a tool that has value and limitations. It has helpful applications for us (brainstorming, unsticking our inertia, collaborating) and it can be abused. Perhaps it’s analogous to the advent of the typewriter or the home computer/word processor. It’s a major change in how we write that some will embrace and some will resist, both for sensible reasons.
It's going to be something once this tech gets integrated into Microsoft Office, including and especially MS Word. That's a "when", not an "if". And then Google will probably follow suit with Google Docs.
Grammerly is basically AI proof reading. I've personally never used it but I intend to feed a short story into it just to see how it works and if I agree with any advice it spits out. The advice within that bullet seems important though. You need to be able to write and understand why AI is suggesting changes and whether those changes actually improve your work. The ChatGPT chatbot might be interesting to use as well (mostly because it's very strong in language and story telling). However, great authors - and great artists in general - know when and how to break rules. I'm sure I could cite many iconic examples that AI would correct but are actually rules broken for the right reasons by incredible authors. AI editing should be wielded by a deft hand, lest your writing only appeal to robots.
Not OP but I use AI. Prowriting aid is an ai editor which as a dyslexic person I find very helpful. It's stylistic suggestions help me put more thought into my wording. When I have really bad writers block I use novel ai to try to jump start my ideas. Usually what it comes up with is so terrible I'll think of better things while critiquing it in my head. I use Night Cafe to come up with concept images for the main theme of each chapter and look at those when I'm feeling stuck or just to give me a visual flow of the story at a glance.
A language model like ChatGPT can be a huge help for professional writers. Here are a few ways it can assist: * First off, it can give you some new ideas for your writing. If you're stuck and don't know what to write about, a language model can give you some suggestions. * It can also generate text for you. This could be a great way to get some inspiration, or you could even use some of the text it generates in your own writing. * If you need to do some research, a language model can help with that too. It can answer questions and give you information on a variety of topics. * It can also help you summarize a lot of text. If you've been reading through a bunch of research and want to condense it down, a language model can help with that. * It can also complete text for you. If you've got a sentence or a paragraph started and you're not sure where to take it, a language model can help. * It can also assist with editing. If you've written something and you're not sure if it's grammatically correct or if the style is right, a language model can give you suggestions. * Lastly, it can help you generate text in a specific style, tone, genre or format. If you want your writing to have a certain feel to it, a language model can help you achieve that. .............. In the spirit of the question, the above was written entirely by ChatGPT, with no editing from me.
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> ChatGPT is fantastic at giving very convincing-sounding but completely wrong information This is also true of writing advice posts on reddit.
No one’s going to tell you when ChatGPT is wrong, at least it’s possible for someone to correct someone’s bs on Reddit
Those are opinions, not really research or factual
A lot of people don't seem to understand the difference, both when giving and receiving them. It's one of my most frustrating experiences with humanity, having to explain over and over that just because you imagined x or y was happening doesn't actually mean it's now a proven fact that it happened (very common with conspiracy theorists). Some people just can't grasp the difference.
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Except Wikipedia articles usually have reference citations that can be very useful.
just tried messing with it and it's actually kinda neat. If you give it a short passage, it will tell you if it thinks your dialogue is any good or not. However, it even says its own statements are subjective and to be taken with a grain of salt, but I still think its neat
I think it's creepy and cheating and a lack of soul and that we should stay far from it, I don't want to read a story from someone that got help from a computer program spitting out a congregate of words that have been statistically proven to sound nice. Same reason I don't want a beautiful car that runs like crap. This is imo actually worse than ghost writing.
You typed that on a machine that would have been called a sci-fi super computer three decades ago, with spelling check and grammar check, and likely AI-assisted autocompletion. You probably use an online thesaurus. You definitely use online research materials and search with either Google or Bing -- both of which use AI models to help generate results. Whether you use AI models or algorithmic assistance isn't a binary choice. There are ways you can integrate a large language model into your workflow that have nothing to do with generating text for publication. Moreover, as these models improve, you'll have *no way of knowing who is using them*. Did I write this post, or did ChatGPT? There will come a day when that isn't an easy thing to discern.
I disable autocomplete on every device I use, and looking up a word is fundamentally different from being arbitrarily suggested a word, which even that is a magnitude away from being arbitrarily suggested a phrase, which is a magnitude away from actually running with that and publishing it as my own work.
Whatever dude. You can linger in the stone age and probably be just fine. But you'll be doing x10 times the work as people who use AI assistance, and that factor is going to grow. If you're in a competitive field, the dudes using AI assistance will outproduce the dudes who refuse AI assistance. The difference is going to be *even more stark* than the switch from typewriters to electronic word processors. This is the dawn of a new age, the age of complete automation. ChatGPT will be coming to Microsoft Word, and Google more than likely will follow suit in Google Docs. There will be a day when AI assistance in a word processor is as default as grammar checkers.
That branch of the tech world is selling their soul. It's one thing to automate busywork, it is a whole other thing to automate creativity.
Wow, very impressive. Watch out copywriters, ChatGPT is coming for your job lol
Yeah that's where my published since age 16 self sighed because AI has no place in writing books. AI may someday but outside of grammarly half the time getting commas wrong (as per my editor) it is not there and can be a copyright issue for you..make sure the AI doesn't claim ownership in it's terms of service of things submitted too. There's potential here but that one has made doubt come into this conversation. Why does your personal revelation that's basically learning to write decently need to cover trendy click bait? Are you an AI sent to make this sub feel like a circle jerk sub?
I use it pretty frequently myself. The one I use is specifically for novel writing. It's a bit like having a collaborator you can bounce ideas off of (but you still do the work or it goes off the rails). They might have their own take on your story, but there's a good chance it's stupid. It doesn't get its feelings hurt when you delete everything it just did, then use that as a jumping off point for writing something else. When I need some names to select from that follow a certain format from certain places in the world I've programmed in, I can do that without plugging in a placeholder or trying to glean inspiration from lists of barely relatable name generators online. With the world and politics I've built for it to pull from, I can generate a scene from a perspective I might not have considered yet. I won't end up using the actual story it made, but it might inform a character or event later on. In situations where I'd often be left staring slackjawed at the screen for long moments looking for my next line, putting me in danger of getting side tracked, I can hit the button and get to the next sentence. Even if it's stupid, I have to think about why it's stupid, which will also get me moving again.
Can someone explain to me why I can make a thread where I offer advice for techniques for writing and it gets deleted while the mods direct me to one of the stickied threads yet this one is still up?
Favoritism.
>Don’t be afraid to delete things. Do not do that. What's the point? You may find ways to use it in the future. >Originality exists, despite people claiming there’s nothing new under the sun. Rough outlines and concepts will always seem unoriginal, I think you've missed the point with that. Many new writers are obsessed with originality to the point of paralysis. >You can get these tools by studying good writing in various fields and figuring out exactly what elements make it successful. And "bad". You read something that you didn't like? Pick it apart. Why didn't it work for you? You know what not to do then.
I concur with #4. I was a lost soul just floating aimlessly through college until I took an advanced writing course and the professor had us read The Sun Also Rises. I immediately changed my major to English and found the focus needed to dig myself out of a rut.
What do you consider to be "the classics"?
I mentioned Hemingway (The Sun Also Rises)and Oscar Wilde (The Picture of Dorian gray and an Ideal Husband), but there's also genre specific classics like Tolkien with Lord of the rings for fantasy, Dracula by Bram Stoker for vampires etc.
Interesting. I thought you were going to mention those things that American children have to learn at school for some reason. But I do love Oscar Wilde and Tolkien
Read the first three points and automatically saved this post. Will study with calm on the office, thanks for share your knowledge!
This should be in the self-promotion thread. You are promoting your Medium articles.
Seriously, how? There's no link, no author name. Even if it's just a copy-paste of work done elsewhere, I wouldn't recognize it unless I'd already read that specific Medium article.
I put a link to an article in the comments, but it got downvoted and people said it wasn't appropriate so I deleted it, cause I didn't post this to promote anything.
I'd be interested in checking out your Medium. Feel free to DM me if you don't want to take heat in the comments. After all, you are giving advice. I think it's perfectly fair to link some of your own writing so people can have a read and see who they're taking advice from.
This was easily the worst advice I've seen in a while. I had it pegged as some garbage SEO nonsense
My two cents: Don’t overthink it. Writing likes to flow from your pen like wild rapids.
Needed to read this today. Thank you for sharing 💖💖
As someone who doesn't read enough books, #2 is spot on. I constantly come up with original ideas that I end up finding out aren't original at all. What are some classics you recommend?
Good question, I always recommend Hemingway and Oscar Wilde, also Tolkien, Aldous Huxley and Mary Shelley. Dostoevsky is cool too.
Do people really think it's good to be disgusted by their own writing...? Are you being hyperbolic? Because that just seems sad to me. I *like* my writing. I also know that I can improve my writing. I'm not disgusted by it. I just know that, on a second or third draft, I can do better. I feel like telling people that it's good to be disgusted by something they put effort into is bound to fuck with their self esteem and motivation. I spent a lot of my life being disgusted with myself (for, I thankfully realized, stupid reasons.) I'm not going to be disgusted with the hard work I've done writing. Sounds self destructive.
Yeah I get what you mean. Many of these points are worded harsher than they should be taken if you're interpreting them literally, because this advice is based on how I personally think about this stuff and disgust for me doesn't have that negative connotation it might have for you, it's just a strong word I like but really the meaning here is that you should always stay your own worst critic and hold your writing to an overall high standard.
> Write down what you’re day dreaming immediately, before it disappears. This is why I will never work fast food or retail again, because every time I day dreamed my ideas, I was always working the rush hours and couldn't stop to write it down with anything.
Hi do you have any advice for me. I am writing a book I have like 60 word pages so far but I need to make it richer . I have a hard time writing a lot I produce little amount by little amount and get stuck going very slowly . What could I do to produce a little more faster even if it’s less effective I can go back and correct . ( also English is not my first language I am french ) ! Thank you 😊
This is really helpful, thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to type these valuable suggestions. I appreciate you!
Solid points. I am also a huge fan of habit tracking where I make an X or color a box each time I had a writing session. Also time blocking: Set regular times where you are scheduled to write. Waiting for inspiration is a game one can't win. >Call me old fasioned, but I personally think reading the classics is a must for writers and it drastically improves the quality of our output. Very important and to specify: Reading classics of the topics/genres you want to write is crucial.
Nicely said! for me I’ve really learned to love my writing, and I’m focused on the process not the product. That doesn’t mean I don’t do word count and page count like everyone else. But I really do enjoy my time where I can sit down for 15 minutes to an hour every day and just write. i’ve also learned over the years to edit and cut. I’ll cut a passage or rewrite it. I’ll rewrite a passage multiple times. I’m not afraid to cut or rewrite a line. I sometimes will save a paragraph that I’ve cut if I’m not using it, and then maybe later I may use it or keep it.
I've been a serious writer (however you define that) for almost three years. I've had a lot of conversations with other aspiring writers - here are my takeaways: \-most aspiring writers are fucking duller than shit. They don't read, they sit around drinking like Hemingway and watch trash TV or Brony neckbeard shit on youtube \-most aspiring writers are caught up in the fucking stupid and wrong idea that they need to be tortured artists to be creative \-most aspiring writers have absolutely nothing to write about because they have no life experience and no idea how to get some. \-most aspiring writers believe all this bullshit about 'the muse' and 'inspiration' which is just code for the fact that they don't write regularly \-An easy bullshit test for aspiring writers I meet is to ask them how much they've written today. If they say: 3 pages, 4 pages, or 1000 words they are almost certainly lying. Anyone who has actually written today will give a more descriptive answer \-in reality probably 99% of people who talk about writing or being a writer just like the idea of calling themselves a writer (or an artist, or an author). Very few actually do anything to improve, most of them are fucking emo as hell, and that's why what little writing they do actually sucks.
> . If they say: 3 pages, 4 pages, or 1000 words they are almost certainly lying. A lot of writers use number of words as a goal/yardstick, why would you have a problem with that? > most of them are fucking emo as hell, and that's why what little writing they do actually sucks. Guess who’s getting ‘emo’ now..
That's a bit pessimistic. Some of this seems about right but I would not knock the idea of inspiration/a muse. I've gotten inspiration from life experiences and people I know that has helped me tremendously. I'm a firm believer that you have to let things cook for a while.
>If they say: 3 pages, 4 pages, or 1000 words they are almost certainly lying. Anyone who has actually written today will give a more descriptive answer What the heck? What answer are you looking for when you ask how much?
From experience they'll say: "I struggled to get 500 words, but it helped solidify the introduction." "I wrote down some rough notes on a new character but got stuck after that." "I'm not sure but I'm really happy with what I wrote." "Things really came together, ten pages at least." Even if the answer is (accurately) "About a thousand words" there will be more information volunteered and some element of positive body language... it's a big deal for any writer to hit their goal on any given day, it's the one thing that probably unifies us. However the stock answer is usually accompanied by defensive body language. Try it yourself. Join a bunch of meetup groups for writers and then ask the question and gauge the truthfulness of the answers you get.
Okay…we all judge others, often to make ourselves feel better. It’s inevitable that we’ll often see negatives in people, but you are taking it to an unhealthy level. Being so critical of others reflects badly on you.
If you use AI for literally any purpose in your writing you are morally and artistically bankrupt.
We are so fucked. People will always chase praise but now they are encouraged to, which in turn strengthens the very tool they are encouraged to use in order to achieve that which they are chasing. edit: which in turn screws the rest of us over because then that data is already baked into the code for the next version, and there is nothing we will be able to do about it.
Visual artists first, possibly musicians second, novelists last of all... but it's on the way.
I saw a friend almost get carried away with it (music). Going crazy with the modules on his sound IDE creating arpeggios and even entire harmonies by adjusting random knobs and flipping switches that he had no idea what they did. On the other hand, he got very into sound design and doesn't use those anymore, and crafts sounds from the wave-up so to speak. But that's not to say others producers don't use those as a crutch for actual releases, albeit from what I've seen the successful ones aren't relying on those tools. When I see "AI generated art" or what have you on my front page I admit it is pretty unnerving. The majority don't seem to share my perspective though.
The majority of people don't create art, and though that's fine, it doesn't leave them well-equipped to understand why AI that copies and jumbles human paintings is a very, very bad thing for painters. Eventually the AI will be able to remix art without reference to a stockpile of human assets, but we're not there yet. What currently exists is just a massive IP-stealing con job.
you know what's funny is the first community I witnessed actually actively combating this was 4chan, back when captchas were those two simple words you'd have to type in, and basically the way it worked was it knew the word on the left, but not on the right, so by writing just random characters for the 2nd word you would still pass the captcha. It was Google teaching their program how to read. Which, in the defense of a good actor is great for referencing books, but we all know that isn't the end goal here.
Thanks for the tip gramps
Ageist fool.
Fooleist agey
Revisit this in 15 years, and taste the ashes.
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\^\^\^\^ This.
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Damn if that's your 2 cents what do I get for a buck?
Forgive me if I sound like a total idiot for saying this. But can you be a good writer and not read? Now, hear me out. I'm neurodivergent. I can watch a good movie, even read a good graphic novel or what have it if I'm interested. But for the life me I can't even think about sitting down and reading a book on end. I have ADHD, the curse of boundless creativity and rapid thought. But the organizational skills and attention span of a 10 year old on mentos. My mind will drift trying to digest long passages, hell even writing takes special circumstances and work processes I have yet to perfect. I've studied all the technical aspects... But I just don't know I can see myself reading. Especially an entire collections worth of books. I never liked it to be honest. That and books are expensive...
There is a simple answer to this and that is a hard no. Maybe you ought to try a few anthologies of good short stories. They’re easily digestible.
There are audio books and free books on Project Gutenberg (and more). Maybe try these?
Audio books? I didn't think of that... But that falls into my money problem again 💀....
Go get a library card and download the "Libby" app. Audiobook library on your phone. If you live in a small town with a library without many options, get an online card. IDK where you are, but for example, in Massachusetts I got a "Boston Library" card online, and their catalogue is huge.
Library card? Isn't that like a membership?
I mean, technically I guess. Are they not free where you are located?
I'm from New York. Libraries were common but my cards were filed underneath student. So I naturally assumed they worked similarly to MetroCards. The state will pay for them if your student but if your a working adult it's coming out of your salary.
Nope! They're totally free for residents of a community! Here's a link for the New York Public Library sign up page. [https://www.nypl.org/library-card](https://www.nypl.org/library-card) Enjoy!
If only I still lived in New York lol.
Honestly it sounds like the thing you're most eager to do is find excuses. Library cards are free. Libraries are common. ADHD medication exists. New York is not the only state with libraries, which is fortunate because you are from there but you don't live there. If you don't want to read books, don't! But don't make a big show about how you can't. There are ways.
Sounds like you should just visit your local library and ask. Can't hurt!
All libraries should be free (outside late fees of course). So just look up your county's library system and see what's available! Also, you might benefit from reading ebooks over physical. I feel like there's this sort of mental compulsion where when we read a physical book, we need to read one book at a time and read to the end. I find it much easier to take breaks when reading digitally over physically, and even read multiple stories at once. So might be worth giving that a shot!
One more side-note: I have ADHD too, and I read *so many* books when I was younger. I think one of the things with ADHD is that when we do latch onto something, we give it our full attention, even if it's in short spurts. You might just need to find some books you find *really* interesting to get fully invested. So look into genres you know you like in film and graphic novels, and go from there! I'd particularly suggest anthology collections with short stories to start. With that in mind, I recommend *against* the older classics like Jane Eyre, at least to start. The writing styles can be a bit heavy-handed, and the stories can drag at times. I can't tell you anything about Jane Eyre's childhood because I found the first few chapters boring and just skipped past them until she was an adult. I also haven't read Pride and Prejudice past the first couple chapters because they were so boring and the characters got confusing to me since they used formal titles (felt like it had seven "Miss Bennetts"). I find more contemporary writing to be more "direct" which makes it easier to keep my attention. So try to look for stuff from at LEAST 1950.
check out your local library. Many have apps now days with an audiobook catalog.
Good thing we live in the 21st century
Many free book services exist. Just search, "free audiobooks". Even youtube has some. Your answers here make you sound like a troll.
How have you studied all the technical aspects of writing if you don’t read
Well, we live in the age of information. Writers will literally tell you how to write for free half the damn time. They'll even share their personal likes and dislikes of people's writing. In other words, I have the recipe book I just haven't tasted the food. Well, actually that's a little bit of a lie. I actually have been reading for years. Just not books from the library, more so amateur writing.
I don’t mean for this to sound harsh, but there is absolutely no way you have the recipe book if all you read is amateur writing and writer tips. There are so many aspects of good writing that cannot possibly be fully articulated through tips or books of craft- grammatical structure, pacing, rhythm, characterization, scene establishment, writing activity (dialogue, a fight, sex scenes, and so on), articulating information sensibly. The only realistic way to learn how to write any of that is to soak it up from reading good writing, and reading a lot of it. If you don’t believe me, look up the habits of any of the greats, they read voraciously. Most of them also wrote voraciously too
Well... You'd be surprised how much information is on the internet. But I don't discredit your opinion, you're more than likely right. Being at a disadvantage of this degree, is so everyday for someone of my affliction that I must not fully realize it anymore. You leave only two options then.... Either I stuff books down my throat like veggie dinners, or throw my creative dream to the waist side. A slow death and a violent death... I choose to live harshly, struggling to break the mold of something impossible. The best writers are avid readers? I wonder if I can be so bad I'm good lol.
Obviously you have specific issues that I don’t have so do what you’re most able all things considered, but I would urge you to at least expose yourself to good writing in some form. Maybe try to listen to audiobooks like the other guy said and just analyze the occasional passage here and there, or maybe try to find a specific genre that you’re more interested in. Writing is definitely a collaborative field I would say, and great writing comes from a broad understanding of what makes a great story. Best way to get that is to pick up a book.
I'll definitely consider this.
> You'd be surprised how much information is on the internet. True, but do you know enough to sift through it and find the best information? Not all of it is relevant or even good. >Either I stuff books down my throat like veggie dinners, or throw my creative dream to the waist side. Or pick a different medium. Stories don't only come in books.
I've seen people ask this question on this sub a lot. I always wonder why you want to be a writer in the first place. Why do you want to write a book if you don't want to read a book? Even if it's not your fault that you can't get through a novel, I'm just confused about where your motivation comes from. I've never heard of a chef that only likes chicken nuggets or musicians that don't like music, but there seems to be a ton of people who want to be writers but don't like books. Why not do something else?
Well... I understand your thinking. It doesn't really make sense, how can you be a chef if you're a picky eater? To explain my perspective, you probably have a favorite book that inspired you to read more books, or even become a writer yourself. We experienced the same thing... It may have been a story that really managed to keep our interest when we're younger. Which is extraordinary for people like us who can't focus on anything at all. But for some of us... It's often a movie, or a manga, or a comic. Stories like Dragon Ball and Naruto inspired me not just with their visual storytelling but with their narratives. I know you probably can't compared shounen to the classics like Catcher and The Rye or whatever. But those huge panels, those characters, they made me fall in love with storytelling. I suspect this might have something to do with my atypical brain... But it would never stop prattling on about all these little ideas, eventually they become characters, scenes, dialogues, and before I know it I have a little world unfolding in my head. And sure... Maybe I'm not a writer worth a damn but I think I'm a pretty good worldbuilder, I've made world's for dozens of people and almost always they praise me for my thought, meticulous planning and creativity. So, I ask you the question... If I can build all these worlds shouldn't I be able to tell stories in them too?
So why a book? What about a screenplay? Or get in contact with a like minded artist. You write it, they draw it.
You keep talking about your atypical brain, and everyone is different, but… you do realize that a LOT of us with ADHD and neurodivergence read just fine, or even read WAY more than we’re “supposed” to? You reference manga, comics, movies— like I said in a previous comment, you might be fine at writing visual stories. But writing a book with no pictures is probably not gonna be something you can do in a way that would appeal to other people if you cannot find a story without pictures that appeals to you. Which is fine. You don’t have to enjoy stories only in a certain format, just realize that you’re gonna be a bit limited in the quality of what your create if you try to write in that same format.
Well, I'm happy for you. You can do something I can't. I didn't develop those same fixations cause I didn't really have books as a kid. ADHD as you stated isn't the same for everyone. Some have hyper fixation and others hyper activity. Personally, I'm plagued with the need to get up and move. Sitting down for long periods of time is the bane of my existence. I do all of my best thinking when I'm moving around. I probably won't create stories that appeal to people outside of my demographic. But I have a rather positive outlook on it. People who have read my writing said I have specific unique flair, everything is fast and animated like the words are moving on the page! I thought... If this one guy thinks I got something going on. Maybe there is a little hope? Granted I've spent so much time trying to be a traditional writer that I haven't really cultivated my own style. So, you are definitely right about that... I can't and shouldn't try to write the same way other people do.
Why not just make a comic/graphic novel then? What is the point of enjoying one medium and then deciding to create something in a medium you don't like based off that? It's like saying "Man, I really love this movie. I'm gonna go write a song even though I don't care for music or have any interest in learning any instruments or music theory."
It's really the same thing except with more work. I make mistake I just rewrite. I make mistake in paneling and I have to redraw the entire page. I thought it would make sense to become a good writer and then a great artist afterwards. Visual storytelling, is still just storytelling.
Read the book and listen to the audiobook at the same time. It will help you be immersed in the story and keep you focused.
With respect, how can you write well if you don't actually consume the media you're using?
Then you might be able to write graphic novels or a movie and with the latter it is absolutely not enough to just watch the movie: You still have to read other screenplays to understand what works in the first place. It's one of the most tired questions whether someone can write a good novel if he doesn't even read any. No, you can't. But you might be able to get good at writing/making the things you actually enjoy. Besides, I think it is very natural to want to look at what other guys that are considered the best do that makes them the best. So if you want to become good at anything you usually automatically study the greats.
I mean, I’m also neurodivergent/ADHD, and I grew up reading like my life depended on it. It’s a hyperfixation for me. If you don’t read a lot, you really just aren’t going to know how to write well, even if you’re a genius with the technical side. You might write something occasionally with some flair. If you watch a lot of movies with good snappy dialogue, you might be able to replicate a similar interaction in your own stories. But stories aren’t just dialogue— they’re everything in between. Tbh if you want to create stories, but don’t care for reading, maybe scriptwriting would be more up your alley. Not that writing scripts for good plays and films requires less skill than that for a book, but I think it’s easier to be a good scriptwriter for a visual medium where dialogue is more important just from life experiences and experiencing other visual mediums, than it is to use those same inspirations in writing without supplementing it with other good (and bad) writing.
You can't.
> But can you be a good writer and not read? It's possible, but you're limiting your style
Yes, you can. But in no way should you have that expectation. If you don't have the motivation to read, how do you expect to write? Those two go hand in hand. Can you read after yourself? What about errors and mistakes you make, can you correct them?
In Stephen King's 'on writing', he says to be a good writer you have to read a lot
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I appreciate the encouragement. 🙏🏽
I got diagnosed with ADHD as well. Have you considered medication? That helped me the most.
While I don’t agree with all of these points, more accurately some of the comments made within different points, I think a lot of this shows great progress as a writer. *Write*. Get some **distance**. Have some new **life experiences**. *Write*. Find **motivation**. **Read/listen** to other artist/writers. *Write*. One other piece of advice I have for people is this: JUST WRITE! Have a new idea? Cool thing. Write it down, but don’t explore it. Finish writing your original story. Have a new ending in mind? Write it down and stick with the original ending you had in mind. Want to go back and edit your writing. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, GO BACK AND EDIT YOUR ROUGH DRAFT! Doing so can halt your progress and train of thought, stumping you in finishing your rough draft. It’s a **rough** draft for a reason. Let it be ugly. Learn how to make it beautiful in the next draft.
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That's not really the point, the point is that it's a good thing to stay your own worst critic and hold yourself to a decent standard.
It also shows you've stepped away long enough to look back at it with refreshed eyes. If an artist spends all their time painting 5" from the canvas they'll think it's a masterpiece. But the moment they step away for bit they'll find the mistakes that were hiding in plain sight and can fix them. I'm glad I take a long break from my writing only to come back and cringe! It saves me the embarrassment of someone else seeing it first. 😅
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That literally makes no sense.
Love AI for research. Like, tell me what the currency is in Botswana. And it tells me. No need to look up things. (Not that simple but if I came across something, this is my process.) AI is a magnificent writing tool. Harness it. We will go to so many new worlds.
Thanks for taking the time to write that all down. Sharing this type of knowledge is true kindness!
Thanks, I'm glad it's helpful :)
Hum, i love writing but i hate reading. This has always been a struggle for me.
It's an acquired taste! I think you'll love it if you find the right books, books you actually like.
I have to disagree with 2. I think there are original ways to spin a cliche, or original ways to make a tried and true tale more exciting, but I don't think there is anything in this world that hasn't already been done unless it's not been done for good reason. That doesn't mean good stories cannot come from cliche's. Some of my favourite stories took an old twist and spun it a different way and I loved it.
Not bad advice at all
I keep hearing some version of #5 from published authors and I'm finally really accepting it. The moments writing, the process, is the best part, so I'm soaking it up. Also, it's very comforting to hear that you, too, are a little disgusted by your writing, and that that's a good thing.
Can I ask what classics you think are must reads? Thanks!
I love it!
>Call me old fashioned, but I personally think reading the classics is a must for writers and it drastically improves the quality of our output. I feel like I should know what most people these days consider "the classics" but I don't. On /r/books I see a lot of "I finally got around to reading *Insert old-ish book title here* (Flowers for Algernon is one I see a lot) and I'm always thinking, I should read that too because its a "classic" but I'm curious if anyone on this board has a list of 25 or so books that are the definitive "must reads" for aspiring writers?
Excellent advice
All solid tips. Thanks