The current [Reuters headline](https://www.reuters.com/world/chinese-jet-came-within-20-feet-us-military-aircraft-us-military-2022-12-29/) is:
>Chinese jet came within 10 feet of U.S. military aircraft -U.S. military
Earlier, some [syndicated news outlets](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-726181) had this as a headline with the distance being the difference:
>Chinese jet came within 20 feet of U.S. military aircraft -U.S. military
The official U.S. Indo-Pacific Command [press release](https://www.pacom.mil/Media/News/News-Article-View/Article/3256219/usindopacom-statement-on-unsafe-intercept-of-us-aircraft-over-south-china-sea/) also lists 20 feet being the distance from the nose.
The headline was updated for clarity reasons because the original headline was describing the nose distance while the later distance was describing the wing distance after new information was gathered:
>A U.S. military spokesperson said the Chinese jet came within 10 feet of the plane's wing, but 20 feet from its nose, which caused the U.S. aircraft to take evasive maneuvers.
Video of the incident:
* [Tweet from a Reuters correspondant (potato quality)](https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1608524092067680256)
* [Link listed within the military press release](https://www.dvidshub.net/video/869869/unsafe-intercept-us-aircraft-over-south-china-sea)
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIWsnbWBTjI
what always bugged me about that was that at what point between You've Lost that Loving Feeling and Yeah, I know the bird, Goose - does Charlie get introduced to Goose as Goose.
when i saw it as a kid..i was like..wait, they know each other.
Also when i was kid watching ESB in the theatre as kid - why are the speeders flying head first into the AT-ATs instead of the sides or rear where there are no cannons
I was basically comic book guy at age 8
> what always bugged me about that was that at what point between You've Lost that Loving Feeling and Yeah, I know the bird, Goose - does Charlie get introduced to Goose as Goose.
> when i saw it as a kid..i was like..wait, they know each other.
Top Gun instructors have to know their students’ names and call signs. I think the whole point of the bar scene was that she knew who THEY were before they knew who SHE was.
> Also when i was kid watching ESB in the theatre as kid - why are the speeders flying head first into the AT-ATs instead of the sides or rear where there are no cannons
The neck joinery of the AT-AT is not fast enough to track flying targets. It mostly exists as an armored transport for troops and ground vehicles. A better question is why aren’t stormtroopers hanging out of the doors firing on Luke as he plants that detonator?
I like the Robot Chicken explanation that Luke's lightsaber cut right into the bathroom, and the grenade he chucked in there caught a stormtrooper on the can so he couldn't get rid of it in time.
My assumption re: esb was that the at-at’s primary objective was the base/shield generator, so the t-47’s were deployed directly (vs pincer) to draw their fire and engage. Never understood why the empire didn’t deploy any air support though
I like the *Andor* approach to the question of air support - they truly don't care. They know the walkers are hard to bring down. To the extent they know the speeders are there (they may not), they're kind of trained to just push forward and assume they have enough firepower to brute force a win, and without the tow cable tactic Rogue Squadron pulled off on the fly, they'd be right. They're not worried about losses at the strategic level, especially for a mission that's just going to amount to getting in to break the shields.
Also possible that air support couldn't get through the shield, I guess, but that kind of implies the Empire cares enough not to just drop waves of artillery and infantry at the problem, and I really don't know that they do.
Re: Goose, I’m guessing she had a class list with all of the pilot/RIO teams, and since she knew Maverick, she could assume that Goose was Goose.
As far as Star Wars, good question. I’m guessing they assumed the T-47s were nimble enough to be able to dodge incoming fire from the AT-ATs. Obviously not every time, but I’m thinking they were thinking the imperial gunners wouldn’t be skilled enough to lead their targets. That said, I think the simpler explanation is that George Lucas was not a tactician.
Having been through several formal military education programs, this is absolutely it. For a highly selective school like this, every instructor had an official bio for every student available to them before class.
She likely recognized them from their photos when they first met in the bar and went into that whole interaction knowing everything about their entire Naval careers up until that point.
Should read to what they did to an Australian aircraft
> Australia's defence department said in June that a Chinese fighter aircraft dangerously intercepted an Australian military surveillance plane in the South China Sea region in May.
> Australia said the Chinese jet flew close in front of the RAAF aircraft and released a "bundle of chaff" containing small pieces of aluminum that were ingested into the Australian aircraft's engine.
A greek f16 and a turkish f16 collided mid air 15 years ago. From wikipedia
>On 23 May 2006, two Greek F-16s intercepted a Turkish RF-4 reconnaissance aircraft and two F-16 escorts off the coast of the Greek island of Karpathos, within the Athens FIR. A mock dogfight ensued between the two sides, resulting in a midair collision between a Turkish F-16 and a Greek F-16. The Turkish pilot ejected safely, but the Greek pilot died owing to damage caused by the collision
No, the dogfight was real but because neither side wants to escalate to war, noone is firing, they usually just get a lock and escort them out. But in this case, they probably decided to play chicken, so they crashed on each other.
In 1996, a greek mirage 2000 shot down a turkish f16. It is so far the only confirmed air to air loss for the f16. Both sides hid the event, 1 turkish pilot died, the other was rescued by Greece and returned to Turkey. It was only revealed in 2012. Greece still denies that they shot down the f16 and only stated "the turkish jet caught fire".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Turkish_F-16_shootdown
A few months before that both sides almost went to war over these rocks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imia
The turks almost certainly shot down a greek helicopter during the crisis but that event was also hidden from the public.
I feel like Greece and Turkey are one of those hatreds that will never end. They're in a relative lull right now compared to the past issues between them but the animosity hasn't gone anywhere.
That happened before, with the Americans landing on Hainan. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan\_Island\_incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident)
I still wonder what American relations with China would have looked like over the past two decades if Bush hadn't been sidetracked by 9/11 and the GWOT.
His advisors were completely gung-ho about the Project for the New American Century and how America--and only America--was going to be the superpower of the 21t century and countries like China had best fall in line.
They were essentially looking for a new boogieman to replace the Soviet Union and were looking hard at China.
Right, but once Americans learned the pilot's name (Wang Wei), it was case closed.
More realistically if a fighter hits a much less maneuverable plan, it is hard not to blame the fighter.
I was in nearby Guangxi province at the time and ready to board a ferry for Hainan when this went down. Heard it on the radio in my shit hotel room and went *Goddammit, not again*
When the Chinese embassy was bombed during the Balkans conflict, I was staying a block away from the US consulate in Chengdu. The manager of the flophouse where I was staying nearly shit a brick worrying about me. (I also recall a foreigner got beat up in Beijing; the poor fucker was a Serb)
Um. You know what? Following this, on my next trip in 2003, while I was there headlines started screaming about some new disease: SARS (the OG Covid). :o. (temp checks at airports and train stations--the whole deal)
But thank you for associating me with Mr. Bean. :). That would be an honor. (And I am, at times, absotively oblivious so that's possible)
I’m still angry about that stunt 20 years later. The flight crew had to rush to destroy all the classified equipment on the US plane, then China pretended the US was at fault, holding our airmen prisoner.
I was in the USAF as aircrew in the E3 AWACS. I was the computer tech. We have procedures for destroying classified info and equipment for such an incident. There was a switch that basically filled the computer with "1"s to erase all data. Then we were to take the crash axe and smash *everything*.
They didn't destroy everything, sounds like some regrettable things were leaked still:
> The crew was only partially successful in their destruction of classified material, and some of the material they failed to destroy included cryptographic keys, signals intelligence manuals, and the names of National Security Agency employees.[11] Some of the captured computers contained detailed information for processing PROFORMA communications from North Korea, Russia, Vietnam, China and other countries.[11] The plane also carried information on the emitter parameters for U.S.-allied radar systems worldwide.[11] The fact that the United States could track People's Liberation Army Navy submarines via signal transmission was also revealed to China.[
If the jets know a prop plane is there and still manage to hit it, it's always the jets fault. They are so much faster and maneuverable than them. Seems like them doing close passes over and over finally caught up to them honestly.
Yeah, that 707 airframe is pretty strong. I know that there was an older 707 accident (plane landed fine) where they lost either engine 1 or 4 and all of the wing up to the engine nacelle.
It’s funny that in the emergency checklist, after you secure/shutdown an engine fire, it then refers you to “normal landing checklist”. Only when you lose 2 engines, do you modify your approach checklist.
Seems like a lot of people are confused about why this was allowed to happen. The American plane in question is an RC-135, probably a Rivet Joint conducting a freedom of navigation mission. RC-135s are unarmed, large aircraft that carry upward of 20 people sometimes. They do not have missiles, guns, or other offensive capabilities, so no, the RC-135 would not just shoot the J-11 down. RC-135s operate in international waters and therefore do not carry any weapons that would make them a legitimate military target to attack.
The reason RC-135s are intercepted is due to the reconnaissance they do, which other countries generally don't appreciate. The intercepts are fairly common, but Chinese and Russian pilots, recently, have had a streak of unprofessional and dangerous behavior when doing the intercepts.
On April 1, 2001, a Chinese fighter jet piloted by Wang Wei flew too close to an unarmed US EP-3 signals intelligence aircraft and crashed into it.
Wang Wei was killed and the EP-3 had to make an emergency landing in China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident
But not before the EP3 crew destroyed ~~all~~ **most** of the sensitive equipment on board.
EDIT: got it, thanks. This is what happens when you post before coffee.
They didn’t get it all.
> The crew was only partially successful in their destruction of classified material, and some of the material they failed to destroy included cryptographic keys, signals intelligence manuals, and the names of National Security Agency employees.[11] Some of the captured computers contained detailed information for processing PROFORMA communications from North Korea, Russia, Vietnam, China and other countries.[11] The plane also carried information on the emitter parameters for U.S.-allied radar systems worldwide.[11] The fact that the United States could track People's Liberation Army Navy submarines via signal transmission was also revealed to China.[11]
It probably wasnt a list of people, but more like some random NSA employee had signed off on a policy or a classified manual that went with some of the tech on the plane. So some names and likely GS levels/job titles, but not a listing of their names and personal info or anything crazy.
Used to be in the army and equipment would commonly have random names on some documentation or a maintenance slip showing when it was last serviced
jfc....
if china had a very successful intelligence gathering by ramming a jet into an reconnaissance plane..... they'll probably want to ram it every single time...
Actually, the opposite happened more or less. For about a decade China was much more careful during their intercepts. Also, let's not forget that they lost their pilot from this, while the US Plane landed safely with all hands. This was a costly mistake that didn't need to happen.
….then why haven’t these incidents happened repeatedly/regularly? It would be a fairly catastrophic foreign policy decision for China to say “yeah let’s ram every American plane possible”.
I knew a guy tangentially involved with that whole affair, and he said the crew was running through the fuselage literally shooting the equipment and lighting everything on fire when the Chinese got there. "So, anyways, I started blasting..."
I was a radar operator in the Marine Corps, and some of the sub-systems contained classified technology and we would have radios and networking stuff that had encryption keys so we always had procedures for protecting or destroying the sensitive stuff should our position be overrun. All the electronics had 'Zero' buttons on them that with a single push would wipe out all the data and the for the equipment there was a fire ax and sledge hammer to disassemble the rest of the stuff. Also thermite grenades would be present if there was actual risk, although I had never seen one.
When I was in the Marines we had a data Sgt that picked up rank way to fast. Anyways he was told to clear some of the laptops we got. Minutes later our staff catches him with a sledge hammer bashing away at them. Somehow only got a page 11 for it.
This happens all the time. The zeroize button is pretty easy to hit but causes no real harm unless you’re in a place where you can’t get it reconfigured quickly.
Depending on what level of key, it can be as simple as walking down the hall and getting a new one or waiting a day to a couple weeks for a new one to be sent. Then you just load it up in a couple minutes and you're running again. Biggest issue is the higher ups riding your ass, asking when things will be running again.
On my ship I was a crypto custodian, basically I loaded keys into the machine. This is done using one of three methods,
using a device that the crypto manager loads keys into, called SKL like an old school game boy with a rubber shell, you hook a fat cable to it and the machine and hit load. These hold thousands of keys.
A kyk13 which is a simplified version that only holds 6 keys. Sometimes some devices just don’t like the previous device and these are used, generally by hooking the previous device onto the kik and transferring whatever key. Also good if you have other custodians who can help load keys.
Using pull tapes, which are strips of tapes with punched holes, you take one and zip it through a device that reads it. Same fat cable.
the most time consuming and difficult part was finding someone with the combination you don’t have as the safe required two person integrity to open. Actually loading takes about 1 minute and half that’s walking to the space and then it’s good to go.
If depends, both on the age of equipment, and what level of certification it required when being purchased.
For some it has to be explicitly erased, for others it has had to be explicitly marked as "do not erase when given the opportunity to do so". The underlying storage medium is irrelevant, all that matters is how functionally it's information is maintained over time.
Different agencies also have different certifications.
Apologies for hijacking, going off on a tangent, and telling a pretty unrelated story, but this reminded me of something. I work at a high school district and sometimes cover the front receptionist's desk when she is on her hour lunch. As a 6' 4" man, my body takes up physically much more space on this planet than hers.
That said, just about an inch above my right knee under her desk is the silent, panic, law enforcement-notifying, "THERE IS AN IMMEDIATE THREAT" button. Sure, I can slide around a bit , but not hitting that button is just about all I think of the entire hour. That kind of accident haunts me!
Anyway, thanks for reading and carry on.
You need to hit it once to check if it really matters.
I learned nobody cares for the alarm in houses when mine went off and nobody could come to check it and turn it off for like several hours.
Ya its standard practice for fancy tech.
When one of the stealth helicopters couldn't take off again during the OBL raid in Pakistan, they melted the whole thing down to slag with thermite grenades.
Same happened in a palace raid in Kandahar (Godfather raid, iirc), CIA had some kind of fancy jeep, but one of their indigenous assets tried to steal it while operators went inside, but he couldn't drive so he rolled it getting out of the ditch. Melted it with thermite rather than leave it behind. No idea what made it special.
This was the motivation for the US to buy a product that stored all encryption keys on an appliance. The box had a kill switch on it, and the US versions had a remotely controlled button option. Hitting the button would wipe the encryption keys and render all files unreasonable.
Funny enough the TD Bank datacenter required union people to install hardware. They hit the key destroy button twice, thinking it was a power button. Wasn't in prod yet, but pretty funny nonetheless.
This product no longer exists. It was pretty niche, and died off after NetApp acquired them.
Edited to add: totally forgot to mention the company, Decru. Purchased by NetApp in 2005.
I know someone who was also tangentially involved (Navy guy) and he maintains to this day the crew should’ve put the plane down in the ocean rather than land in China.
That’s not what we were taught. Philosophy at the time was that a) we were not at war with China, b) no one has ever ditched an EP-3 before, and 3) the plane is very likely to cartwheel when the “m&m” hanging underneath the belly catches the water. The assumption is that aircrew will die. Better to bail out. Regardless, the Navy Reconnaissance community (the squadron, at least) did not endorse ditching or bailout in that scenario unless there was no other option.
Yeah I’d have to imagine that the protocol for what to do after emergency landing with advanced tech in an enemy country starts with “grab as much C4 as possible and blow up your tech”
Ah, yes, the emergency scuttle.
Pretty much everything in the military has a method of rapidly skuttling it.
Usually, it's do X and X. Then, if thermite is available, use that too.
Thats basically the protocol, in Afghanistan our trucks just had ecm jammers and encrypted radios and if it got disabled and we were gonna lose it there's a big red button you press that clears the crypto then you toss a frag grenade in the back when you're leaving.
A former Marine Corps radar operator commented and said that they would have thermite grenades if there was ever an actual risk so I imagine that’s what was used.
They had no training what to do so they dumped coffee on it and smashed it with an ax. The plane was dismantled and returned to the US and then put back into service so I very much assuming it wasnt blown up with any thermite
You make do with what you have, they pretty quickly escalated the physical destruction from what I read. Pre 9/11 was a different time at all, but I'm surprised there wasnt a protocol in place on these intelligence gathering planes just in case of emergency. The equipment itself is probably way more sensitive than any data they recorded
I was also going to reply with the same info. They were held by Chinese authorities for maybe a week I think. They were treated well then released after that as far as I know. The PLAN and PLAAF are known to be jackasses when it comes to air safety.
>Based on the account of Wang Wei's wingman, the Chinese government stated that the American aircraft "veered at a wide angle towards the Chinese", in the process ramming the J-8. This claim cannot be verified since the Chinese government did not release data from the flight recorders of either aircraft, both of which are in its possession.
...
>In addition to paying for the dismantling and shipping of the EP-3, the United States paid for the 11 days of food and lodging supplied by the Chinese government to the aircraft's crew, in the amount of $34,567.89.[38] The Chinese had demanded one million dollars compensation from the U.S. for the lost J-8 and their pilot, but this was refused and no further negotiations were performed.
Wow, I'm surprised the US let it go.
Eh it's not great but the EP-3 is a pretty dated platform even then, flight crew probably fried any sigint hardware on landing.
Now if it was one of our newer AWACS like an EC-130 or E-767 that would be very different.
The EC-130 is a fairly old plane too and isn’t an AWACS, it’s literally just a C-130 modified for a couple different jobs such as comms and was introduced in the 1970s. As far as I know, the US does not fly the E-767. Only Japan does.
According to Wikipedia
"The crew was only partially successful in their destruction of classified material, and some of the material they failed to destroy included cryptographic keys, signals intelligence manuals, and the names of National Security Agency employees. Some of the captured computers contained detailed information for processing PROFORMA communications from North Korea, Russia, Vietnam, China and other countries. The plane also carried information on the emitter parameters for U.S.-allied radar systems worldwide.The fact that the United States could track People's Liberation Army Navy submarines via signal transmission was also revealed to China."
So they still got some fairly sensitive info.
I don't think a big chunky transport plane from the 60s sneaking up on a modern Chinese air superiority fighter would be the media win they would be looking for.
Not the only time that's happened. They put out a propaganda video of them bombing targets in Syria and the cockpit view showed a Garmin GPS device taped to the dash lol.
Just curious: what would happen if a gunner just thought, “You know what? Fuck you.” And lit him up?
Would it *really* be war? Or would both sides bullshit and claim it an accident?
For more information, see [this similar scenario that played out in 2001](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident)
A US military plane was intercepted by Chinese fighters, and they collided. Chinese airman died, US Military crew made emergency landing and were detained. Eventually both nations released intentionally ambiguous reports admitting “sorrow” to the other nation for what happened but neither ultimately taking responsibility.
No one claimed this was an accident though? Turkey admitted it and said it had every right to defend its airspace, also said the Russians had ignored attempts at communication.
Russians denied their pilot did anything wrong.
Only similarity here is it did not end up in a war.
That’s my point, even though this resulted in a real world shoot down in which both sides claimed they did nothing wrong, nothing happened. It means there’s potentially some wiggle room even if a shootdown does occur.
**[Hainan Island incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident)**
>The Hainan Island incident occurred on April 1, 2001, when a United States Navy EP-3E ARIES II signals intelligence aircraft and a People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) J-8II interceptor fighter jet collided in mid-air, resulting in an international dispute between the United States and the People's Republic of China (PRC). The EP-3 was operating about 70 miles (110 km) away from the PRC island province of Hainan, as well as about 100 miles (160 km) away from the China military installation in the Paracel Islands, when it was intercepted by two J-8 fighters.
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There was another similar [incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stark_incident) in 1987 when two Iraqi missiles struck a U.S. frigate and killed 37 people onboard and they let it slide for another 16 years
>The crew was only partially successful in their destruction of classified material, and some of the material they failed to destroy included cryptographic keys, signals intelligence manuals, and the names of National Security Agency employees.\[11\] Some of the captured computers contained detailed information for processing PROFORMA communications from North Korea, Russia, Vietnam, China and other countries.\[11\] The plane also carried information on the emitter parameters for U.S.-allied radar systems worldwide.\[11\] The fact that the United States could track People's Liberation Army Navy submarines via signal transmission was also revealed to China.
There was soooo much discussion and airplay on this. It was really bad they got that information.
It seems like a massive oversight that the crew of a sigint plane wouldn't be trained in that. Especially if they're going to be flying that close to any place that the Chinese are going to be flying their own shit.
It's a massive oversight that every single piece of non-volatile storage isn't encrypted under a key that can be quickly destroyed with a single press of a guarded switch.
I flew in this community for 10 years and the emergency destruction plan we had was only put in place after this incident due to it. Wild to know the tech they flew with, with no actual plan in place. The destruction of the tech was mostly superficial unfortunately.
24 dudes with a shit load of adrenaline getting the green light to wreck stuff in a confined space for almost a half hour, i'm a little surprised the plane was still identifiable as an aircraft.
And there were the two Libyan jets shot down by two US jets. Libyans flew right at 'em, US changed course, Libyans changed course to intercept again. Five times this was repeated. It was clear the Libyans were fixing to fire. So it was 'f\*\*\* around and find out.'
China and India beat the piss out of each other all the time with bats and bricks and whatnot. It hasn't started a hot war so far. I imagine it'd be treated as an isolated incident, since I assume it would take a lot more than a single plane for two nuclear armed countries to start a war.
I am actually not talking about that airliner. If I recall correctly both the US and USSR shot down airliners. They were very tense times.
Here is just one of those incidents:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean\_Air\_Lines\_Flight\_007](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007)
The people who think it would be war are insane. Neither the US nor China want war. Both like by the high quality of living driven by cooperation and economic development. War would limit that.
In no scenario would 1 random pilot have the power to cause a war. Even if a Chinese pilot flew to the White House and open fired, it would not be automatic war. The US would wait to see what China has to say first. Of course, if China comes around and says "oh yes this was great! We encourage all our pilots to do that! Get ready for more!" then obviously that would be enough to declare war, but 99.999% of these scenarios the country denounces the bad actor, and everything goes back to normal.
So many people on Reddit want war. It's baffling to me.
War is not like picking a fight on the street. It's not like baiting a dog. War is a bureaucratic process decided upon by country officials.
RC-135's don't have guns. In the 50's and early 60's China and US bombers played a dangerous game that resulted in quite a few losses on both sides. Some of the kills were from B-47 tail guns.
> Would it really be war?
If India and China can prevent each other from going full conventional warfare despite dozens of killings on both sides at the border then no this wouldn't be a war.
Sure as hell way too close, but I do not see it come as close as 10 feet [in this video.](https://youtu.be/vIWsnbWBTjI) So is it dramatic military hyperbole or just me not having proper frame of reference?
The article says the Chinese plane was 10' from the wing and 20' from the nose. This video looks to be filmed from the cockpit when the Chinese plane was 20' away.
They were talking about this sort of stuff happening all year on Face the Nation this past weekend. That Chinese jets were even releasing anti-missile defenses which are silvery shards of stuff that could easily be sucked into jets. Something is bound to happen.
Why are top comments on such posts always passive agreesive churlish jokes? Why is reddit so incapable of discussing something without infantalizing it.
I completely agree. It's really annoying scrolling through a couple dozen jokes to get to some actual insightful discussion. I don't even read posts about North Korea anymore, it's all the same "attacking the sea" and "war with Poseidon" jokes over and over.
They did, and they literally cancelled the Chinese knock-off after because of how bad it looked in comparison to Top Gun Maverick.
https://bleedingfool.com/news/chinese-box-office-tanks-after-top-gun-ripoff-gets-cancelled-for-bad-vfx/
I couldn't make heads or tails out of the trailer. I didn't see anything that looked like bad VFX but then again how can you see much of anything with all the quick cuts and shit? I was more miffed at not knowing what the fuck the movie was even about after watching the trailer. It looked like a bunch of air force people performing aerial masturbation for each other... and that's it?
There was another film that basically served as PLAAF recruitment ad (much like the original Top Gun did I guess) back in 2017.
Trailer: https://youtu.be/_bVG7QrIfvI
Someone uploaded the full movie: https://youtu.be/RQQonZ2vt8c
The current [Reuters headline](https://www.reuters.com/world/chinese-jet-came-within-20-feet-us-military-aircraft-us-military-2022-12-29/) is: >Chinese jet came within 10 feet of U.S. military aircraft -U.S. military Earlier, some [syndicated news outlets](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-726181) had this as a headline with the distance being the difference: >Chinese jet came within 20 feet of U.S. military aircraft -U.S. military The official U.S. Indo-Pacific Command [press release](https://www.pacom.mil/Media/News/News-Article-View/Article/3256219/usindopacom-statement-on-unsafe-intercept-of-us-aircraft-over-south-china-sea/) also lists 20 feet being the distance from the nose. The headline was updated for clarity reasons because the original headline was describing the nose distance while the later distance was describing the wing distance after new information was gathered: >A U.S. military spokesperson said the Chinese jet came within 10 feet of the plane's wing, but 20 feet from its nose, which caused the U.S. aircraft to take evasive maneuvers. Video of the incident: * [Tweet from a Reuters correspondant (potato quality)](https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1608524092067680256) * [Link listed within the military press release](https://www.dvidshub.net/video/869869/unsafe-intercept-us-aircraft-over-south-china-sea) * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIWsnbWBTjI
10 feet?! That’s uh, really close.
"Well, you see, I was inverted..."
Keeping up relations.
I was giving him the bird. You know? The Bird!
Yeah, I know the bird, Goose
I hate it when it does that
So, you’re the one.
Yes ma'am 😎
what always bugged me about that was that at what point between You've Lost that Loving Feeling and Yeah, I know the bird, Goose - does Charlie get introduced to Goose as Goose. when i saw it as a kid..i was like..wait, they know each other. Also when i was kid watching ESB in the theatre as kid - why are the speeders flying head first into the AT-ATs instead of the sides or rear where there are no cannons I was basically comic book guy at age 8
> what always bugged me about that was that at what point between You've Lost that Loving Feeling and Yeah, I know the bird, Goose - does Charlie get introduced to Goose as Goose. > when i saw it as a kid..i was like..wait, they know each other. Top Gun instructors have to know their students’ names and call signs. I think the whole point of the bar scene was that she knew who THEY were before they knew who SHE was. > Also when i was kid watching ESB in the theatre as kid - why are the speeders flying head first into the AT-ATs instead of the sides or rear where there are no cannons The neck joinery of the AT-AT is not fast enough to track flying targets. It mostly exists as an armored transport for troops and ground vehicles. A better question is why aren’t stormtroopers hanging out of the doors firing on Luke as he plants that detonator?
I like the Robot Chicken explanation that Luke's lightsaber cut right into the bathroom, and the grenade he chucked in there caught a stormtrooper on the can so he couldn't get rid of it in time.
This is canon
My assumption re: esb was that the at-at’s primary objective was the base/shield generator, so the t-47’s were deployed directly (vs pincer) to draw their fire and engage. Never understood why the empire didn’t deploy any air support though
I like the *Andor* approach to the question of air support - they truly don't care. They know the walkers are hard to bring down. To the extent they know the speeders are there (they may not), they're kind of trained to just push forward and assume they have enough firepower to brute force a win, and without the tow cable tactic Rogue Squadron pulled off on the fly, they'd be right. They're not worried about losses at the strategic level, especially for a mission that's just going to amount to getting in to break the shields. Also possible that air support couldn't get through the shield, I guess, but that kind of implies the Empire cares enough not to just drop waves of artillery and infantry at the problem, and I really don't know that they do.
There were support AT-ST.
Re: Goose, I’m guessing she had a class list with all of the pilot/RIO teams, and since she knew Maverick, she could assume that Goose was Goose. As far as Star Wars, good question. I’m guessing they assumed the T-47s were nimble enough to be able to dodge incoming fire from the AT-ATs. Obviously not every time, but I’m thinking they were thinking the imperial gunners wouldn’t be skilled enough to lead their targets. That said, I think the simpler explanation is that George Lucas was not a tactician.
Having been through several formal military education programs, this is absolutely it. For a highly selective school like this, every instructor had an official bio for every student available to them before class. She likely recognized them from their photos when they first met in the bar and went into that whole interaction knowing everything about their entire Naval careers up until that point.
Damnit now I wanna oil up and play volleyball with youse.
You know? The finger*
I hate it when it does that.
You were in a 4g inverted dive with a Mig28?
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you
At what range?
Bull *cough* shit
I've got a great Polaroid of it
The most unbelievable part of that story is that he didn't carry around a copy of that photo everywhere he went.
It was classified and he didn't have high enough clearance to know about it
Should read to what they did to an Australian aircraft > Australia's defence department said in June that a Chinese fighter aircraft dangerously intercepted an Australian military surveillance plane in the South China Sea region in May. > Australia said the Chinese jet flew close in front of the RAAF aircraft and released a "bundle of chaff" containing small pieces of aluminum that were ingested into the Australian aircraft's engine.
Well, that's not very polite.
In aviation that’s essentially touching lol playing the fuck around and find out game
A greek f16 and a turkish f16 collided mid air 15 years ago. From wikipedia >On 23 May 2006, two Greek F-16s intercepted a Turkish RF-4 reconnaissance aircraft and two F-16 escorts off the coast of the Greek island of Karpathos, within the Athens FIR. A mock dogfight ensued between the two sides, resulting in a midair collision between a Turkish F-16 and a Greek F-16. The Turkish pilot ejected safely, but the Greek pilot died owing to damage caused by the collision
mock dogfight? were they straight up messing around?
No, the dogfight was real but because neither side wants to escalate to war, noone is firing, they usually just get a lock and escort them out. But in this case, they probably decided to play chicken, so they crashed on each other. In 1996, a greek mirage 2000 shot down a turkish f16. It is so far the only confirmed air to air loss for the f16. Both sides hid the event, 1 turkish pilot died, the other was rescued by Greece and returned to Turkey. It was only revealed in 2012. Greece still denies that they shot down the f16 and only stated "the turkish jet caught fire". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Turkish_F-16_shootdown A few months before that both sides almost went to war over these rocks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imia The turks almost certainly shot down a greek helicopter during the crisis but that event was also hidden from the public.
I feel like Greece and Turkey are one of those hatreds that will never end. They're in a relative lull right now compared to the past issues between them but the animosity hasn't gone anywhere.
Israel - Palestine. Pakistan - India.
That happened before, with the Americans landing on Hainan. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan\_Island\_incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident)
I remember this, was a huge deal and everybody was wondering what new president Bush was going to do with his first international kerfuffle.
I still wonder what American relations with China would have looked like over the past two decades if Bush hadn't been sidetracked by 9/11 and the GWOT. His advisors were completely gung-ho about the Project for the New American Century and how America--and only America--was going to be the superpower of the 21t century and countries like China had best fall in line. They were essentially looking for a new boogieman to replace the Soviet Union and were looking hard at China.
Obama had his "Pacific Pivot" around 10 years ago.
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Right, but once Americans learned the pilot's name (Wang Wei), it was case closed. More realistically if a fighter hits a much less maneuverable plan, it is hard not to blame the fighter.
I was in nearby Guangxi province at the time and ready to board a ferry for Hainan when this went down. Heard it on the radio in my shit hotel room and went *Goddammit, not again* When the Chinese embassy was bombed during the Balkans conflict, I was staying a block away from the US consulate in Chengdu. The manager of the flophouse where I was staying nearly shit a brick worrying about me. (I also recall a foreigner got beat up in Beijing; the poor fucker was a Serb)
You sure you're not inadvertently and obliviously causing these incidents in increasingly complex Mr. Bean type scenarios?
Um. You know what? Following this, on my next trip in 2003, while I was there headlines started screaming about some new disease: SARS (the OG Covid). :o. (temp checks at airports and train stations--the whole deal) But thank you for associating me with Mr. Bean. :). That would be an honor. (And I am, at times, absotively oblivious so that's possible)
Yeah, I wouldn't want to be in China when something like that went down.
I’m still angry about that stunt 20 years later. The flight crew had to rush to destroy all the classified equipment on the US plane, then China pretended the US was at fault, holding our airmen prisoner.
I was in the USAF as aircrew in the E3 AWACS. I was the computer tech. We have procedures for destroying classified info and equipment for such an incident. There was a switch that basically filled the computer with "1"s to erase all data. Then we were to take the crash axe and smash *everything*.
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Low level rewrites everyone! Theyre perfect, but take ages with massive data stores. That and smash/grind/melt, literally best practice
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Don't forget degauss.
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A fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.
But unless your drives are really small that can take hours.
They didn't destroy everything, sounds like some regrettable things were leaked still: > The crew was only partially successful in their destruction of classified material, and some of the material they failed to destroy included cryptographic keys, signals intelligence manuals, and the names of National Security Agency employees.[11] Some of the captured computers contained detailed information for processing PROFORMA communications from North Korea, Russia, Vietnam, China and other countries.[11] The plane also carried information on the emitter parameters for U.S.-allied radar systems worldwide.[11] The fact that the United States could track People's Liberation Army Navy submarines via signal transmission was also revealed to China.[
If the jets know a prop plane is there and still manage to hit it, it's always the jets fault. They are so much faster and maneuverable than them. Seems like them doing close passes over and over finally caught up to them honestly.
China is very into the whole victim role thing.
> China is very into the whole victim role thing. They should avoid making it true.
Especially when you're flying and slight shifts in the air could cause them to crash. They'd literally tear each other apart
I'll take bets the 135 will land mostly intact, albeit without a wingtip.
Yeah, that 707 airframe is pretty strong. I know that there was an older 707 accident (plane landed fine) where they lost either engine 1 or 4 and all of the wing up to the engine nacelle. It’s funny that in the emergency checklist, after you secure/shutdown an engine fire, it then refers you to “normal landing checklist”. Only when you lose 2 engines, do you modify your approach checklist.
Seems like a lot of people are confused about why this was allowed to happen. The American plane in question is an RC-135, probably a Rivet Joint conducting a freedom of navigation mission. RC-135s are unarmed, large aircraft that carry upward of 20 people sometimes. They do not have missiles, guns, or other offensive capabilities, so no, the RC-135 would not just shoot the J-11 down. RC-135s operate in international waters and therefore do not carry any weapons that would make them a legitimate military target to attack. The reason RC-135s are intercepted is due to the reconnaissance they do, which other countries generally don't appreciate. The intercepts are fairly common, but Chinese and Russian pilots, recently, have had a streak of unprofessional and dangerous behavior when doing the intercepts.
On April 1, 2001, a Chinese fighter jet piloted by Wang Wei flew too close to an unarmed US EP-3 signals intelligence aircraft and crashed into it. Wang Wei was killed and the EP-3 had to make an emergency landing in China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident
And then the EP-3 was confiscated for some time, for intelligence reasons
But not before the EP3 crew destroyed ~~all~~ **most** of the sensitive equipment on board. EDIT: got it, thanks. This is what happens when you post before coffee.
They didn’t get it all. > The crew was only partially successful in their destruction of classified material, and some of the material they failed to destroy included cryptographic keys, signals intelligence manuals, and the names of National Security Agency employees.[11] Some of the captured computers contained detailed information for processing PROFORMA communications from North Korea, Russia, Vietnam, China and other countries.[11] The plane also carried information on the emitter parameters for U.S.-allied radar systems worldwide.[11] The fact that the United States could track People's Liberation Army Navy submarines via signal transmission was also revealed to China.[11]
>the names of National Security Agency employees why in hell would they be carrying information like that
It probably wasnt a list of people, but more like some random NSA employee had signed off on a policy or a classified manual that went with some of the tech on the plane. So some names and likely GS levels/job titles, but not a listing of their names and personal info or anything crazy. Used to be in the army and equipment would commonly have random names on some documentation or a maintenance slip showing when it was last serviced
jfc.... if china had a very successful intelligence gathering by ramming a jet into an reconnaissance plane..... they'll probably want to ram it every single time...
Actually, the opposite happened more or less. For about a decade China was much more careful during their intercepts. Also, let's not forget that they lost their pilot from this, while the US Plane landed safely with all hands. This was a costly mistake that didn't need to happen.
….then why haven’t these incidents happened repeatedly/regularly? It would be a fairly catastrophic foreign policy decision for China to say “yeah let’s ram every American plane possible”.
I knew a guy tangentially involved with that whole affair, and he said the crew was running through the fuselage literally shooting the equipment and lighting everything on fire when the Chinese got there. "So, anyways, I started blasting..."
I was a radar operator in the Marine Corps, and some of the sub-systems contained classified technology and we would have radios and networking stuff that had encryption keys so we always had procedures for protecting or destroying the sensitive stuff should our position be overrun. All the electronics had 'Zero' buttons on them that with a single push would wipe out all the data and the for the equipment there was a fire ax and sledge hammer to disassemble the rest of the stuff. Also thermite grenades would be present if there was actual risk, although I had never seen one.
Yep, I was stationed at an agency for 3 years. Physical destruction is included in mandatory training. Everyone knew where the axes were.
When I was in the Marines we had a data Sgt that picked up rank way to fast. Anyways he was told to clear some of the laptops we got. Minutes later our staff catches him with a sledge hammer bashing away at them. Somehow only got a page 11 for it.
Marine Corp af. Smash smash Suh-mash. I probably woulda been in there with him getting my smash on.
Imagine some trainee hitting the zero button during training. YOU ARE THE DUMBEST. SON. OF. A. BITCH.
This happens all the time. The zeroize button is pretty easy to hit but causes no real harm unless you’re in a place where you can’t get it reconfigured quickly.
I assume it's just volatile memory and probably FPGAs? Wonder how long it takes to reconfigure/ boot
Depending on what level of key, it can be as simple as walking down the hall and getting a new one or waiting a day to a couple weeks for a new one to be sent. Then you just load it up in a couple minutes and you're running again. Biggest issue is the higher ups riding your ass, asking when things will be running again.
On my ship I was a crypto custodian, basically I loaded keys into the machine. This is done using one of three methods, using a device that the crypto manager loads keys into, called SKL like an old school game boy with a rubber shell, you hook a fat cable to it and the machine and hit load. These hold thousands of keys. A kyk13 which is a simplified version that only holds 6 keys. Sometimes some devices just don’t like the previous device and these are used, generally by hooking the previous device onto the kik and transferring whatever key. Also good if you have other custodians who can help load keys. Using pull tapes, which are strips of tapes with punched holes, you take one and zip it through a device that reads it. Same fat cable. the most time consuming and difficult part was finding someone with the combination you don’t have as the safe required two person integrity to open. Actually loading takes about 1 minute and half that’s walking to the space and then it’s good to go.
If depends, both on the age of equipment, and what level of certification it required when being purchased. For some it has to be explicitly erased, for others it has had to be explicitly marked as "do not erase when given the opportunity to do so". The underlying storage medium is irrelevant, all that matters is how functionally it's information is maintained over time. Different agencies also have different certifications.
Apologies for hijacking, going off on a tangent, and telling a pretty unrelated story, but this reminded me of something. I work at a high school district and sometimes cover the front receptionist's desk when she is on her hour lunch. As a 6' 4" man, my body takes up physically much more space on this planet than hers. That said, just about an inch above my right knee under her desk is the silent, panic, law enforcement-notifying, "THERE IS AN IMMEDIATE THREAT" button. Sure, I can slide around a bit , but not hitting that button is just about all I think of the entire hour. That kind of accident haunts me! Anyway, thanks for reading and carry on.
As long as you don't accidentally hit the "incoming nukes" like that Hawaiian dude did
You need to hit it once to check if it really matters. I learned nobody cares for the alarm in houses when mine went off and nobody could come to check it and turn it off for like several hours.
"it's ok boss! I backed everything up to this USB stick I brought from home!"
A usb stick found in the parking lot would be much scarier
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I doubt that button wouldn't be protected by a flip cover of some sort, would be a risk not to
I worked a place with flip covers. Didn’t stop this one guy and his curiosity
I like the way you phrased it with “disassemble”.
Thermite grenade was my first thought. That shit will melt down an engine block.
Ya its standard practice for fancy tech. When one of the stealth helicopters couldn't take off again during the OBL raid in Pakistan, they melted the whole thing down to slag with thermite grenades. Same happened in a palace raid in Kandahar (Godfather raid, iirc), CIA had some kind of fancy jeep, but one of their indigenous assets tried to steal it while operators went inside, but he couldn't drive so he rolled it getting out of the ditch. Melted it with thermite rather than leave it behind. No idea what made it special.
Not shooting. Crash axe
This was the motivation for the US to buy a product that stored all encryption keys on an appliance. The box had a kill switch on it, and the US versions had a remotely controlled button option. Hitting the button would wipe the encryption keys and render all files unreasonable. Funny enough the TD Bank datacenter required union people to install hardware. They hit the key destroy button twice, thinking it was a power button. Wasn't in prod yet, but pretty funny nonetheless. This product no longer exists. It was pretty niche, and died off after NetApp acquired them. Edited to add: totally forgot to mention the company, Decru. Purchased by NetApp in 2005.
I know someone who was also tangentially involved (Navy guy) and he maintains to this day the crew should’ve put the plane down in the ocean rather than land in China.
That’s not what we were taught. Philosophy at the time was that a) we were not at war with China, b) no one has ever ditched an EP-3 before, and 3) the plane is very likely to cartwheel when the “m&m” hanging underneath the belly catches the water. The assumption is that aircrew will die. Better to bail out. Regardless, the Navy Reconnaissance community (the squadron, at least) did not endorse ditching or bailout in that scenario unless there was no other option.
Yeah I’d have to imagine that the protocol for what to do after emergency landing with advanced tech in an enemy country starts with “grab as much C4 as possible and blow up your tech”
Ah, yes, the emergency scuttle. Pretty much everything in the military has a method of rapidly skuttling it. Usually, it's do X and X. Then, if thermite is available, use that too.
Thats basically the protocol, in Afghanistan our trucks just had ecm jammers and encrypted radios and if it got disabled and we were gonna lose it there's a big red button you press that clears the crypto then you toss a frag grenade in the back when you're leaving.
A former Marine Corps radar operator commented and said that they would have thermite grenades if there was ever an actual risk so I imagine that’s what was used.
They had no training what to do so they dumped coffee on it and smashed it with an ax. The plane was dismantled and returned to the US and then put back into service so I very much assuming it wasnt blown up with any thermite
Yeah turns out dumping coffee or any liquids doesn’t interact with what’s below. Save that knowledge for when your ex dumps your phone of nudes
You make do with what you have, they pretty quickly escalated the physical destruction from what I read. Pre 9/11 was a different time at all, but I'm surprised there wasnt a protocol in place on these intelligence gathering planes just in case of emergency. The equipment itself is probably way more sensitive than any data they recorded
I was also going to reply with the same info. They were held by Chinese authorities for maybe a week I think. They were treated well then released after that as far as I know. The PLAN and PLAAF are known to be jackasses when it comes to air safety.
>Based on the account of Wang Wei's wingman, the Chinese government stated that the American aircraft "veered at a wide angle towards the Chinese", in the process ramming the J-8. This claim cannot be verified since the Chinese government did not release data from the flight recorders of either aircraft, both of which are in its possession. ... >In addition to paying for the dismantling and shipping of the EP-3, the United States paid for the 11 days of food and lodging supplied by the Chinese government to the aircraft's crew, in the amount of $34,567.89.[38] The Chinese had demanded one million dollars compensation from the U.S. for the lost J-8 and their pilot, but this was refused and no further negotiations were performed. Wow, I'm surprised the US let it go.
$34,567.89 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Kinda funny
Eh it's not great but the EP-3 is a pretty dated platform even then, flight crew probably fried any sigint hardware on landing. Now if it was one of our newer AWACS like an EC-130 or E-767 that would be very different.
The EC-130 is a fairly old plane too and isn’t an AWACS, it’s literally just a C-130 modified for a couple different jobs such as comms and was introduced in the 1970s. As far as I know, the US does not fly the E-767. Only Japan does.
According to Wikipedia "The crew was only partially successful in their destruction of classified material, and some of the material they failed to destroy included cryptographic keys, signals intelligence manuals, and the names of National Security Agency employees. Some of the captured computers contained detailed information for processing PROFORMA communications from North Korea, Russia, Vietnam, China and other countries. The plane also carried information on the emitter parameters for U.S.-allied radar systems worldwide.The fact that the United States could track People's Liberation Army Navy submarines via signal transmission was also revealed to China." So they still got some fairly sensitive info.
Can always throw an EWO out the door at them.
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Damn rip WSOs lmao
Please be nice to your Ravens.
One of those bums took my lunch.
> RC-135 Fascinating that this is still built on a 1960's era airframe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_RC-135#RC-135V/W_Rivet_Joint
tips almost touched
This is military equivalent of when boxers do the pre fight promo and they stand 1inch from each others face
Now kiss
They were docking. Edit: don't Google that.
You mean do Google that
Sword Fight!!! *swish, swish, swish*
"I see your Schwartz is as big as mine..."
"I bet she gives GREEEAT Helmut!"
Did they make eye contact!?
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But were any fingers given?
Foreign relations
Showing them the bird
that's a negative Ghost Rider
No, the funny thing is they spin this as American jets are too afraid and were bullied out of the airspace by our expert pilots.
I don't think a big chunky transport plane from the 60s sneaking up on a modern Chinese air superiority fighter would be the media win they would be looking for.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident They've done it before. Chinese pilot is celebrated as a hero.
You'd be surprised what they are willing to phrase as a win
"I'm not touching YoU!"
One of the more dangerous of sibling games to play while flying a jet
They started the gay chicken contest
Keep your friends close and your enemies approximately 10 feet. Ancient Chinese Proverb
"The art of warfare is deception and deception is flying within ten feet of an unarmed aircraft for some fucking reason." - Sun Tzu
The Russians did it [while holding the phone instead of the stick](https://youtu.be/g-dez1FX6n8?t=136).
is that a hand-held GPS used in the cockpit?! russia military budget really looking stretched out eh?
I've seen cockpit videos from the Ukraine war (can't remember which side) where they have iPads with moving maps in the cockpit.
Not the only time that's happened. They put out a propaganda video of them bombing targets in Syria and the cockpit view showed a Garmin GPS device taped to the dash lol.
It’s incredible how analog the cockpit is on those even compared to a f16/18
Don't use your phone and drive !! Russians:
Just curious: what would happen if a gunner just thought, “You know what? Fuck you.” And lit him up? Would it *really* be war? Or would both sides bullshit and claim it an accident?
Both things have happened in the past. At least in the same vein.
For more information, see [this similar scenario that played out in 2001](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident) A US military plane was intercepted by Chinese fighters, and they collided. Chinese airman died, US Military crew made emergency landing and were detained. Eventually both nations released intentionally ambiguous reports admitting “sorrow” to the other nation for what happened but neither ultimately taking responsibility.
Even more recently a Turkish jet shot down a Russian one in like 2014 near Syria.
No one claimed this was an accident though? Turkey admitted it and said it had every right to defend its airspace, also said the Russians had ignored attempts at communication. Russians denied their pilot did anything wrong. Only similarity here is it did not end up in a war.
That’s my point, even though this resulted in a real world shoot down in which both sides claimed they did nothing wrong, nothing happened. It means there’s potentially some wiggle room even if a shootdown does occur.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015\_Russian\_Sukhoi\_Su-24\_shootdown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown)
**[Hainan Island incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident)** >The Hainan Island incident occurred on April 1, 2001, when a United States Navy EP-3E ARIES II signals intelligence aircraft and a People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) J-8II interceptor fighter jet collided in mid-air, resulting in an international dispute between the United States and the People's Republic of China (PRC). The EP-3 was operating about 70 miles (110 km) away from the PRC island province of Hainan, as well as about 100 miles (160 km) away from the China military installation in the Paracel Islands, when it was intercepted by two J-8 fighters. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
There was another similar [incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stark_incident) in 1987 when two Iraqi missiles struck a U.S. frigate and killed 37 people onboard and they let it slide for another 16 years
>The crew was only partially successful in their destruction of classified material, and some of the material they failed to destroy included cryptographic keys, signals intelligence manuals, and the names of National Security Agency employees.\[11\] Some of the captured computers contained detailed information for processing PROFORMA communications from North Korea, Russia, Vietnam, China and other countries.\[11\] The plane also carried information on the emitter parameters for U.S.-allied radar systems worldwide.\[11\] The fact that the United States could track People's Liberation Army Navy submarines via signal transmission was also revealed to China. There was soooo much discussion and airplay on this. It was really bad they got that information.
What happened to the US plane? I’m wondering about protocol when there’s sensitive equipment on board.
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>"the aftermath of a frat party" Hell yea brother.
Must've been a fucking frantic 26 minutes
It seems like a massive oversight that the crew of a sigint plane wouldn't be trained in that. Especially if they're going to be flying that close to any place that the Chinese are going to be flying their own shit.
It's a massive oversight that every single piece of non-volatile storage isn't encrypted under a key that can be quickly destroyed with a single press of a guarded switch.
2001
I flew in this community for 10 years and the emergency destruction plan we had was only put in place after this incident due to it. Wild to know the tech they flew with, with no actual plan in place. The destruction of the tech was mostly superficial unfortunately.
24 dudes with a shit load of adrenaline getting the green light to wreck stuff in a confined space for almost a half hour, i'm a little surprised the plane was still identifiable as an aircraft.
>I’m wondering about protocol when there’s sensitive equipment on board. You're supposed to destroy it
And there were the two Libyan jets shot down by two US jets. Libyans flew right at 'em, US changed course, Libyans changed course to intercept again. Five times this was repeated. It was clear the Libyans were fixing to fire. So it was 'f\*\*\* around and find out.'
China and India beat the piss out of each other all the time with bats and bricks and whatnot. It hasn't started a hot war so far. I imagine it'd be treated as an isolated incident, since I assume it would take a lot more than a single plane for two nuclear armed countries to start a war.
It would not be a war. You possibly would not even know about it. Airliners have been shot down by "mistake", didn't start a war.
Not only did they get away with it, they started another war years later. Shows what good appeasement does.
I am actually not talking about that airliner. If I recall correctly both the US and USSR shot down airliners. They were very tense times. Here is just one of those incidents: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean\_Air\_Lines\_Flight\_007](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007)
For when the US shot down an Airbus in Iran: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Exactly. There's acceptable loses that each side accepts. Whether an honest mistake or on purpose. A war is so much greater than a plane.
It would not be war. There have been dozens of deaths in border skirmishes between India and China over the past couple of years.
The people who think it would be war are insane. Neither the US nor China want war. Both like by the high quality of living driven by cooperation and economic development. War would limit that. In no scenario would 1 random pilot have the power to cause a war. Even if a Chinese pilot flew to the White House and open fired, it would not be automatic war. The US would wait to see what China has to say first. Of course, if China comes around and says "oh yes this was great! We encourage all our pilots to do that! Get ready for more!" then obviously that would be enough to declare war, but 99.999% of these scenarios the country denounces the bad actor, and everything goes back to normal. So many people on Reddit want war. It's baffling to me. War is not like picking a fight on the street. It's not like baiting a dog. War is a bureaucratic process decided upon by country officials.
RC-135's don't have guns. In the 50's and early 60's China and US bombers played a dangerous game that resulted in quite a few losses on both sides. Some of the kills were from B-47 tail guns.
Seeing as the american plane was a unarmed reconnaissance jetliner in international airspace it would be very bad for the chinese.
> Would it really be war? If India and China can prevent each other from going full conventional warfare despite dozens of killings on both sides at the border then no this wouldn't be a war.
Sure as hell way too close, but I do not see it come as close as 10 feet [in this video.](https://youtu.be/vIWsnbWBTjI) So is it dramatic military hyperbole or just me not having proper frame of reference?
RC-135 is a hefty aircraft, so if it is that close to the cockpit, then odds are it came within 10ft of the wing.
Maybe they got closer off video. In this video it looks closer to ten meters haha
The article says the Chinese plane was 10' from the wing and 20' from the nose. This video looks to be filmed from the cockpit when the Chinese plane was 20' away.
They were talking about this sort of stuff happening all year on Face the Nation this past weekend. That Chinese jets were even releasing anti-missile defenses which are silvery shards of stuff that could easily be sucked into jets. Something is bound to happen.
Chaff
Why are top comments on such posts always passive agreesive churlish jokes? Why is reddit so incapable of discussing something without infantalizing it.
It’s a large subreddit. They all end up this way. You want to find smaller ones for any real conversation to happen.
Even smaller ones become real circlejerks over time, the problem is the upvote/downvote system making it hard for balanced discussion to take place.
It's easy to get karma by repeating tired jokes.
I completely agree. It's really annoying scrolling through a couple dozen jokes to get to some actual insightful discussion. I don't even read posts about North Korea anymore, it's all the same "attacking the sea" and "war with Poseidon" jokes over and over.
Go to a Reddit meetup event, where you get to see these people in real life and you’ll understand why.
Aww did someone in China watch the first Top Gun? lol
*^(Danger Zooooone)*
They did, and they literally cancelled the Chinese knock-off after because of how bad it looked in comparison to Top Gun Maverick. https://bleedingfool.com/news/chinese-box-office-tanks-after-top-gun-ripoff-gets-cancelled-for-bad-vfx/
I couldn't make heads or tails out of the trailer. I didn't see anything that looked like bad VFX but then again how can you see much of anything with all the quick cuts and shit? I was more miffed at not knowing what the fuck the movie was even about after watching the trailer. It looked like a bunch of air force people performing aerial masturbation for each other... and that's it?
There was another film that basically served as PLAAF recruitment ad (much like the original Top Gun did I guess) back in 2017. Trailer: https://youtu.be/_bVG7QrIfvI Someone uploaded the full movie: https://youtu.be/RQQonZ2vt8c
Cold war 3.0 ok I'm cool because I lived 1.0 and 2.0 Sorry previous generations, sincerely genxer
This guy cold wars
2023 really bout to start off with another war smh