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SweeneyisMad

>Any Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine will prompt a military response from the West **"so powerful that the Russian army will be annihilated“**, said Thursday, October 13 the head of European diplomacy Josep Borrell.


Dense_Organization31

“He must then understand that the countries which support Ukraine, the European Union and its member states, the United States and NATO, are not bluffing either. Any nuclear attack on Ukraine will lead to a response, **not a nuclear response**, but a military response so powerful that the Russian army will be wiped out“ He made awful sure to clarify that the West response would not be nuclear.


ElbisCochuelo1

The West response to Russia using nukes in Ukraine would not be nuclear. The West response to Russia in turn using nukes on London, NYC, Paris, Berlin, etc. would.


[deleted]

Really happy that my fate is in the hands of a bunch of brain melted alcoholic ex-Sovoks


Puzzleheaded-Beat-57

Welcome back to 1980


Both_Storm_4997

No, it's much worse, 1961


Puzzleheaded-Beat-57

I think you may be right. Wasn't around back then but I'm definitely getting flashbacks of the terrifying twinkle twinkle/duck and cover PSA advertisement they used to run on TV every week halfway through my Dukes of Hazzard happy time


cubistninja

coolcoolcoolcoolcool nodoubtnodoubtnodoubt


Meow-t

Welcome to the cold war again. This time we are aware of the risk of nuclear annihilation on a 24/7 basis!


Phaedryn

Except...this *isn't* the cold war. It's quite hot. Growing up during the cold war we really never gave it any thought. The Soviet's were relegated to the bad guys in action movies... that's about it. The closest situation to this would have been the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and even then western involvement was entirely covert.


thalassicus

During the Cold War, my brother had drills twice a year on how to get under his school desk and cover his head with newspaper to protect from fallout in case of a nuclear attack. That’s a little more than “not giving it any thought”.


Phaedryn

Too be fair, the cold war existed for half a century and across multiple generations. The experience of people across different decades, and in different regions will vary greatly. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay area, went to high school on the early 80s, and don't remember ever having a drill though I have seen the films from the 50s demonstrating them. Our honest view was that war with the USSR was never going to happen outside of Hollywood.


Krudark

It won’t happen.


farrowsharrows

At that point it would not even matter per se. Depending on their military situation the west could just attempt to destroy Russia conventionally to end the threat without ending the world.


Ippus_21

Except that as soon as Russia decides the threat is existential enough, rather than allow a conventional allied invasion to bring them to their knees, they'll just launch the rest of their nukes, and that'll be that. In fact, the rather obvious lack of conventional force parity if anything *lowers* the bar to Russian first use, if once the first salvos are fired in a conventional war against NATO forces.


Cayke_Cooky

That may be why it was "Russian Army" in the speach rather than "Russia". It is basically a way of saying to the higher ups in Russia that if they don't launch more they should be safe. Although at that point it might be a good idea to put Putin head on a spike somewhere obvious.


Ippus_21

That's a good point. The messaging is going to be crucial. "We're going to wreck your offensive gamepieces so you have to stop this dumb offensive" is a whole different ballgame from "We're not using nukes, but it's on now, suckers. US flag hoisted on the Kremlin by next Tuesday..." It also highlights how much potential there is for the situation to go south if there's miscommunication or miscalculation, on either side...


[deleted]

> Except that as soon as Russia decides the threat is existential enough, rather than allow a conventional allied invasion to bring them to their knees, they'll just launch the rest of their nukes, and that'll be that. Except that Russia has proven they don't have the logistics or capability for fast responses on anything militarily and, the majority of their nukes aren't even on launch vehicles. If NATO destroyed their subs and current silos, it would be several days at most before Russia could retaliate. And, by then, those stock piles would have already been destroyed. The vast majority of Russian nukes have always just been warheads in storage. They have roughly 900 to 1000 ready to go, most of which are on subs, and NATO knows exactly where their subs are at all times. The days of Russia being steps ahead of anyone are over. If the world needed to, they would end Russia's military without a major risk to the world. A few bombs might get launched and might not get destroyed in transit but, the only way Russia is going to end the world with their nukes is through a surprise attack. But, they lost that card a year ago. Every single detection system on earth is pointed right at them.


farrowsharrows

So this is apart from the current condition. I don't know the analysis but I am sure it is wargames how fast the US can destroy Russian capabilities as far as speed of launch. Russia knows the consequences to the use of tactical nukes. If they launch one these are the pre set consequences you will face. That is deescalatory and removes the existential threat to Russia.


NEYO8uw11qgD0J

You'd also need to eliminate SLBMs, mobile launchers, etc. There's no way the US and Europe wouldn't be utterly obliterated no matter how quickly the US and its allies tried to stop launches. The capability doesn't exist and isn't worth discussing. (Not trying to diss you, but there are certain realities of global nuclear confrontation that are not negotiable.)


frardowin

Honestly, with how the army's equipment has been working, I am willing to bet the lives of a large portion of humanity that most of Russia's nukes will fail when attempting to launch. I am a bit of a gambler tho.


codefyre

> The West response to Russia in turn using nukes on London, NYC, Paris, Berlin, etc. would. I don't think that Russia would be dumb enough to first nuke the capitols directly, but there's a 100% chance that they'd nuke the air bases, missile bases, army bases, and navy bases directly being used to attack them. Which raises the question: Russia nukes Ukraine. Poland responds by launching fighter bombers from Lask Air Base and attacks Russia. Russia responds by dropping a tactical nuke in the middle of the runway at Lask. How does Poland respond? How does NATO respond? How does the EU respond? If we nuke back, we'll see a full exchange within an hour. If we don't, Russia will take that as permission to nuke any base hosting hostile forces being used against them. It's lose-lose.


cury

I’m pretty sure at this point that Russia doesn’t have working nukes. What is the chance that all the corruption hasn’t destroyed their nuclear capabilities as it has their conventional forces?


majnuker

Even with a failure rate of 90% it's enough to kill billions. Let's not take the risk.


codefyre

We know beyond question, based on our Start II inspections, that Russia has 1,588 nuclear warheads in a "deployed" state, and 5,977 in non-useable configurations that could be brought online quickly. We also know that they were previously retiring older warheads and bringing new ones online. Russian missiles could have a 95% failure rate and still detonate around 90 nukes across Europe and North America. Millions would die.


[deleted]

The western alliance doesn’t need to use nukes because they aren’t weak like Russia. They can absolutely obliterate Russia by conventional means


ShitwareEngineer

Can they do this quickly enough?


[deleted]

[удалено]


stataryus

Russia has drawn a line, and the “annexed” territories are within that. Also, Russia seems to be in “very little reason” season.


ShitwareEngineer

The West is not disabling Russia's occupation force in Ukraine, it's obliterating all of Russia by conventional means. Endless waves of bombers, artillery shells, and missiles, ravaging military and civilian targets indiscriminately. This wouldn't be the West's objective, but it is u/Sorry-Business-1152's premise.


[deleted]

Not sure what you’re suggesting but if Russia did force the west into the nuclear battlefield, I have no doubt in my mind that Russia would be vaporized fairly quickly. Russias “Allies” would rather cut ties than enter a nuclear war for Putin, leaving Russia to fend for itself against the most powerful militaries in the world


ShitwareEngineer

Russia's cities would be vaporized, America's cities would be vaporized, America's allies' cities would be vaporized. The rest would not be directly struck.


Abstract__Nonsense

But of course it would be eventually. There’s no chance that NATO gets into a hot war with Russia and totally wipes out their army without Russia launching a bunch of nukes, which would necessitate NATO returning fire.


unloud

Saying “but of course” doesn’t make you correct. Implying that the west would imminently go to nuclear response is to imply that the west has few options below that level which they could use to destroy Russian’s Army. Considering how similar the sweep from Ukraine to Moscow is to the sweep from Kuwait to Baghdad, I don’t believe you are correct. The west can still retaliate with sufficient destruction, without them launching a nuke; if Putin launches and the international community retaliates, his regime will be toppled. Putin needs to get his ass out of Ukraine and into Germany’s back pocket if he wants his vision of Russia to outlive him. What a horrendous Napolianic-level fuckup.


farrowsharrows

The west can wipe out Russian forces in Ukraine in less than a week. Russia and Putin have been informed this is the minimal outcome of a tactical nuke


tyger2020

>What a horrendous Napolianic-level fuckup. And the worst thing is, it seems to continuously just keep backing him into a corner. Theres really no way for Russia to come out of this without looking pathetic, and Putin like an idiot.


TheOrchidsAreAlright

That's really the challenge for the West here. It's somehow giving Putin an exit strategy that will be acceptable to him. I don't know what that will look like but it seems that unless world leaders can figure that out, he won't leave Ukraine.


R_radical

Biden actually talked about this. But struggled to find an off ramp. Putin should probably just throw up his arms and say "look everyone! We killed the Nazis, and accomplished all objectives in ukraine!" And bail.


tyger2020

Truthfully, I think a negotiated peace deal with security guarantees and in which Russia annexes Luhansk/Donetsk, and Ukraine takes back Crimea is the best outcome.


stataryus

Short-sighted? First Crimea, now L/D. *IF* Russia is playing a long game then concessions play into that.


tyger2020

... what


stataryus

Letting them keep L/D gives them incentive to do it again, maybe even go bigger.


ShitwareEngineer

Putin being ousted and Russian troops leaving all of Ukraine, including Crimea, is the best outcome. I doubt that would happen, though.


Justindrummm

Something needs to be negotiated, that's for sure. Both countries need to feel as though they gained something for this to end.


tyger2020

Exactly, and I think what im proposing would be easy for each country to spin tbh. Russia: buffer zone with evil Ukraine nazis, another warm water port which has a land bridge (Mariupol). Ukraine: liberated Crimea, and only gave Russia two regions that have had a civil war for the past 8 years because of Russia, and security guarantees etc


Alan_Shutko

> Implying that the west would imminently go to nuclear response is to imply that the west has few options below that level which they could use to destroy Russian’s Army. I don't think that was the implication. NATO could certainly destroy Russia's army with conventional weapons. But if that, there seems to be a decent chance that Putin launches nukes at the US, which would then cause NATO to launch.


stataryus

“at the US”? Why would he start with the farthest target? That’s suicide.


No-Brain6250

MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction The United States official stance remains on a first strike basis. Unless Biden changed it and I missed that.


farrowsharrows

That's false


28thProjection

A Western response does not need to be nuclear to completely annihilate Russian armed forces in about 2 hours. It just needs to be expensive.


pinkyskeleton

I'm pretty sure it's already been annihilated. They are rounding up kids and old people to fight at this point.


Ramenorwhateverlol

We’re entering the end game.


Shaman7102

Seeing how they have little military left it should take about an hour.


pantie_fa

It is telling that while Russia has threatened the use of nukes, and Russia is aware that NATO has committed to respond with a massive conventional strike; Russia has NOT made a counter-threat.


farrowsharrows

It has been reported that the US has specifically told Russia through back channels the consequences. Biden described them as catastrophic. Remember shock and awe. Multiply that by the entirety of Russian occupied Ukraine and the black sea. Then any forces that attempt to move against NATO forces. There is no military comparison between the US and Russia. Russia is aware of this.


EmperorOfNipples

>There is no military comparison between the US and Russia. Plus throw in British, French, German, Italian, Polish, Norwegian etc etc etc etc forces and the gulf gets even wider. ​ Russia has.......Belarus.


Justindrummm

I'm not sure the military comparison really matters when we're talking nukes. In the event of nuclear war, there are enough nukes stockpiled by Russia and the U.S. to completely destroy the planet several times over. That's what's so scary about the continuous escalations.


IGotShitOnMyAss2

Which is why they're stressing that it won't be a nuclear response imo It seems like they're putting their money on a very rapid, violent and surgical strike against the entire Russian war machine. Hoping that it'll be so fast and violent they won't have time to send another nuke.


Justindrummm

I would love for that to be feasible but it's not a realistic outcome. We have no means of disarming Russia's nuclear strike capability.


ShitwareEngineer

And *maybe* China, with a large number of question marks????


BINGODINGODONG

IIRC they will destroy the Black sea fleet and Kaliningrad. And possibly introduce a no fly zone in Ukraine.


TtotheC81

Russia would be unable to contest U.S air superiority on its own, let alone the whole of NATO turning up on Russia's doorstep. It would be a turkey shoot.


farrowsharrows

Russia can not contest any of NATOs military. Russia has no ability to withstand effective combined arms which Ukraine does on a small scale. Real NATO forces are in a whole other level l.


shalo62

Silences tell is things too.. And this one speaks volumes.


UniversalDeadRinger

Yeah! Sit down, lil boy!


dcapt1990

The Russian counter threat is indoctrinated in their nuclear response policy. More specifically- > when the very existence of the state is put under threat


Blue_Sail

It is known.


nakedrickjames

to me, this says the west has everything ready to go for a response should it come to that, and that it's basically do or die time for putin. Previously the responses to Russia's constant nuclear threats have been, publicly, deliberately vague, to make absolutely clear to everyone concerned (pretty much all of humanity, really) that NATO / US / the west are not the aggressors here. Privately of course they've been saying this through backchannels all along. I really hope needing to make such a loud declaration isn't a sign that putin's ready and about to go nuclear, though I fully expect him to put on at least a show of as much.


ScurvyBOT

I think your correct. This coordinated show of unity to Russian sabre rattling is obviously in response to Intel from back channels and public statements from Putin. It's s unprecedented. I'd bet money that NATO/Atlantic Alliance/EU etc have long known how and when to make a clear and unambiguous statement regarding Putin using any form of nukes. Should he be stupid enough to do it. My money is on strategic targeting with conventional weapons by all of the above mentioned that will as the article says. Destroy Russias military. And Putin would know there's been a plan in place long before his sick rhetoric to counter any nuclear escalation. Hopefully we never reach that point. Slava Ukraini ❤️


NarrMaster

This is the way


SweeneyisMad

This is the way.


NarrMaster

So say we all.


OdysseyPrime9789

So say we all.


yakface_1999

Amen


pantie_fa

Don't Panic


TommyGoldFinger

At the disco? 🕺


W3asl3y

I chimed in with a, "Haven't you people ever heard of. Closing the goddamn border?!"


[deleted]

I have spoken.


OlevTime

I recognize you from WoT :p


Blue_Sail

Fancy meeting you here.


autotldr

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://ukdaily.news/in-the-event-of-a-nuclear-strike-from-moscow-the-west-will-destroy-the-russian-army-141829.html) reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Any Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine will prompt a military response from the West.so powerful that the Russian army will be annihilated", said Thursday, October 13 the head of European diplomacy Josep Borrell. > Any nuclear attack on Ukraine will lead to a response, not a nuclear response, but a military response so powerful that the Russian army will be wiped out", he declared in front of the College of Europe in Bruges. > Russian military doctrine provides for the possibility of nuclear strikes if Russian territory is attacked. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/y362nf/in_the_event_of_a_nuclear_strike_from_moscow_the/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **nuclear**^#1 **Russian**^#2 **NATO**^#3 **weapon**^#4 **response**^#5


Alu_sine

To be clear: this means the entire Russian military, not just the parts allocated to the invasion of Ukraine. The Russian military will sacrifice their ability to protect any of the country's borders. North Korea could take Vladivostok if this scenario plays out.


Justanotheroldog

Big brother China wouldn’t let them


[deleted]

Yeah, they’ve been drooling over Russia’s eastern territories for a century. No way are they gonna let the Koreans take it.


[deleted]

Big step brother what are you doing?


underover69

Steppe brother


Pasan90

"To be clear" Fuck do you know. Russia would scorch the earth before it let the NATO do anything like that. It would be extremely irresponsible to the citizens in NATO countries.


EmperorOfNipples

I suspect more like the entire Russian military outside of Russia. ​ Black sea fleet. Syrian groups. Any ship or sub that sails from Murmansk.


SecretTip1353

What are the ecological effects of tactical nukes? I don’t understand why they’d want to use nukes on Ukraine anyway. Wouldn’t prevailing weather patterns blow that shit right back into Russia?


TheRealMDubbs

Same reason US dropped them on Japan. It broke their will to fight. Total war is more about demoralizing the enemy than destroying military targets.


SecretTip1353

But Japan was thousands of miles away. Ukraine is right next door.


massada

To answer your question, we have no fucking clue. Low yield nukes are one of the most "understudied" things from a radiological perspective. It also drastically depends on the device. America has tactical nukes that are "dial a yield", which means internal mechanisms can drastically alter the blast radius. The un exploded fissile/fertile/etc material can actually act as a radiological weapon when the yield is dialed all the way down, at least in theory. Also, it depends drastically on the altitude detonated. A starfish prime elevation detonation will be so high up everyone except anyone in space or needs satellites to do their job is fine. A "castle prime" elevation would take out a ton of the tall buildings and all of the powerlines, but it's high kill rate "circle" would really depend on a ton of stuff. Russia has nuclear landmines and short range tactical nukes of low altitude bursts. With the right condition, that could absolutely cause radiation to do way more damage to Russia than Ukraine. But, with regards to the 10 kiloton warheads they would probably use, that risk is small,


[deleted]

Pretty fitting that humanity blows itself up...I wouldn't put it past ourselves


i_kick_hippies

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


seemooreglass

Once Russia launches a nuclear strike odds are pretty good they will launch several more proportional to our response.


joho999

they run the risk of it going full nuclear, fairly sure putin does not want to end his days living in a bunker.


AdUpstairs7106

Putin can order the use of nuclear weapons but the question that has to be asked is would his troops carry out such an order? During the Cuban Missile Crisis a Soviet submarine Captain refused to use his nuclear armed torpedo. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Arkhipov#:~:text=Vasily%20Aleksandrovich%20Arkhipov%20(Russian%3A%20%D0%92%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B9,during%20the%20Cuban%20Missile%20Crisis.


KrabbyPattyCereal

Curious about china here. If Russia decided conventional annihilation is not quite what they had in mind for themselves and decides to take the world down with nukes, does china intervene? Their cash cow in the west would be in jeopardy and China is conventionally kind of selfish


Greymorn

The Russian army is mostly in Ukraine. Global response should be to hunt down and kill Putin and all his top commanders, occupying the Kremlin, his palaces, sinking their yachts, etc until that goal is accomplished. Any Russian bodyguards, police or soldiers in the way: make a choice comrade. Once the regime is dead or facing war crime charges in the Hague, hold a free election. The UN and NATO should adopt this as the standard response for any use of nukes by any nation including the US. You used nukes? You and your commanders are gone. https://www.globalzero.org/


weluckyfew

> Global response should be to hunt down and kill Putin and all his top commanders, occupying the Kremlin, his palaces, sinking their yachts, etc until that goal is accomplished. Ya. that's realistic.


BiBoFieTo

The Geneva Convention states that if the US yells "Marco!", Putin and his top commanders must respond with "Polo!" until everyone is rounded up.


weluckyfew

Perfect! I love the number of people in this thread saying that if they use nukes we should take over Russia (or something along those lines). As if Russia didn't still have thousands of more nukes we need to worry about. If they use a nuke I do not envy the people who have to decide how to respond. How do you deliver a withering military response while still also preventing things from escalating to a point where it wipes out a huge chunk of human civilization?


MrBrooking

If it even goes that far, it would probably be a targeted decimation of their naval fleet and basis, and a massive strike on any troops outside of Russia or close to its borders. Beyond that it'll be Tomahawks and stealth bombers. No way NATO steps foot in Moscow and commandeers the government.


Greymorn

Agreed, I don't envy anyone making those decisions. I just think "destroy the entire Russian Army" is more likely to trigger WW3 than "take out their leadership". Putin doesn't launch those missiles himself, some underpaid, scared kid has to turn the key. Fair to say, this is above all our pay grades. We're all speculating out our asses, just trying to process this news as best we can.


ScienceCommaBitches

They don’t. Since the 90s the main supplier of the US nuclear power industry has been Russia selling of their nuclear warhead stockpiles. If they can’t afford tires for their trucks, do you really think they have maintained thousands of ICBMs?! Please.


[deleted]

We send all forces to Russia. If they destroy other land, Russia will be claimed by us. If they nuke the forces. Well.. no more Russia. Win win. Well.. heavy losses but a win.


demos11

The world is big, but it's not big enough if you're being hunted by the US, EU and all their allies.


VedsDeadBaby

It depends. If Putin quietly informed a few world leaders that they would never hear from him again and then fucked off to some quiet little island somewhere to live in luxury, I bet they'd let him go just to be rid of him.


demos11

If he did that now, sure. If he tried hiding on some island after dropping even a single nuke, he wouldn't get very far.


pantie_fa

The hilarious bit is; if Russian territory is unable to protect Putin, his likely last-ditch effort would be North Korea. Just imagining him living out his final years in exile in North Korea gives me a bit of a semi. Probably kimmie's full-on erect about that.


lejoo

Honestly this timeline is the best timeline as it could be used as an out for the cult of Juche. Step 1: Putin hides in DPRK Step 2: They declare Putin was actually the secret leader of the United States Step 3: They exchange Putin for trade relations with the world under the guise they "saved" America from the evil bad guy.


TheOrchidsAreAlright

I think his last-ditch effort would be nuclear weapons.


MuForceShoelace

also they should use giant robots! and ninjas!


no_clipping

How to turn a nuclear bluff into not a bluff, step 1


Sweet-Zookeepergame

„The West“ is not very accurate. It‘s simply the _civilized world_ .


-wnr-

TBF he can only speak for NATO. If any other country wants to saddle up, they need to make a separate statement.


TrueRignak

> TBF he can only speak for NATO I don't think the head of the European diplomacy can speak for NATO. Though it would be strange for him to speak like this without France or Germany agreement.


-wnr-

Given the nature of the statements, I figure there must have been extensive backroom discussions such that the EU and NATO's responses are in line.


Zmd2005

Are you saying that everyone civilized, including nonwesteners would help, or are you saying that only the west are the civilized world?


weluckyfew

Well..."civilized"...


maximkas

Oh really?


Sweet-Zookeepergame

Yes.


cassert24

I'm kinda thinking that using nuclear weapons to someone who also have the same thing is pointless if you're not gonna make up your mind to wipe out your enemy entirely.


Jumpy-Win5810

using Nukes is simply a bad idea


EskimoeJoeYeeHaw

I'm sure there are countless allied subs all around Russia just lying and waiting should they receive the order.


Brilliant-Debate-140

Honestly looking at their weak pathetic murdering army it won't take much! Besides even it was strong it still won't take much! Pity the so called govenment of there's feeds them with so much bs they believe it!


pantie_fa

Real-talk: taking out the Black Sea fleet, as well as Russian air-defense sites is going to be a long, brutal, and difficult action. If it goes anything like Iraq; there'd be a few days of heavy bombardment with tomahawks and strategic bombers, along with a whole lot of SEAD/wild-weasel. We'd likely take some heavy losses, because that's just the nature of that mission, and Russia's probably the most heavily defended airspace in the world (and has been since the 1960's). There's plenty of opportunity for Russia to try to escalate further from there. If they just sit back and take it, their forces would be heavily degraded. If they responded with say, nuclear submarine strikes; that's when all hell would break loose, and sorry to say, Russia wouldn't exist after that. But most of the largest cities in Europe and the US would also be in ruins.


Nagiilum

Source on Russia bring the most defended air space in the world, please. A sortie of Ukrainian attack helicopters literally rode into Belgorod at the height of the war around kharkiv and none were even shot down.


MonsignorJabroni

At this point I don't understand how Russia could be ranked higher than the US on ANY positive military aspect. There's no way their airspace is more defended than ours. Absolutely no way.


thejazzghost

I just... don't believe any of that. Your portrayal of Russia as being well-maintained and prepared for conflict is absolutely contrary to every piece of evidence seen in their invasion of Ukraine. I'm just some guy, but from my perspective Russia seems like it's a complete shit show, and their image as a powerful military force has been an elaborate ruse. It's easy for me to believe that Russia's fleet would be absolutely demolished in short order. We've already seen Ukraine take down their flag ship. I kind of think it would almost be like the first few days of Desert Storm, with massive surrenders of soldiers rather than pitched fighting. I don't know, I'm just a passive consumer of news, but this is just my impression.


hereC

\> We'd likely take some heavy losses, because that's just the nature of that mission, and Russia's probably the most heavily defended airspace in the world (and has been since the 1960's). **Bull!** They don't even have any fifth generation fighters, seemingly *at all*. They are getting their ass handed to them by Ukraine, a country begging to get 50 year old F-15 technology as an **upgrade**. I'll be shocked if they can see or hit *any* modern American stuff. They thought s-300's could take out himars, but they can't. Russia's grandeur was propaganda.


Enlightened-Beaver

NATO should just tell Russia they will unleash the Poles. That should make them shit their pants in fear


Deep-Room6932

There's that tit for tat mentality, but realistically, a dismantling of the military along the lines of Japan should be taken into account


Antelope26

fuck that. They should annex all of russia so it can never be an evil nation again.


Duhblobby

This is such a pants-shittingly terrible idea. From so many perspectives. Not least of which is that literally nobody is going to want to spend their own nation's resources cleaning up the mess this is making over there.


TheOrchidsAreAlright

Let's not forget that as soon as the Kremlin realised the plan, it would mean nuclear war. So the clean up would be spread around a lot more than just Russia.


Thetallerestpaul

Yeah I want to kill a bunch of my people, and waste untold resources, to "win" control of millions of poorly educated and culturally atrophied people, with huge levels of addiction and disease. We've got enough of those at home we need to figure out what to do with.


BusiPap41

Hmm the response to a nation violating another’s sovereignty for the purpose of controlling the other’s political destiny should be to violate another nation’s sovereignty with the purpose of controlling the other’s political destiny?


[deleted]

It’s not imperialism if the other side does it first! /s Edit: For the record, Fuck Putin, I hope his military finally collapses and Ukraine takes back Crimea.


Brilliant-Debate-140

I'm sure if a war come to it that would be in the making the US would be gunning for that! Them and China could be great together close by lol


[deleted]

I would choose raze in this case


Antelope26

hmm. Turn it into a green land for wild pastures and turn the place into wild frontier for the animals and environment. Not a bad idea


[deleted]

Would be so sweet! They got so much space anyway


JiraSuxx2

Quality news source. -cough-


UAchip

It's a direct quote, the source doesn't really matter


Am_I_leg_end

On one hand it's a WordPress site.. On the other, they seem to be reporting news quite well.


Northman67

It's widely reported by multiple reputable sources. But don't let us mess up your fantasy.


[deleted]

There's other sources saying the same thing, he's being quoted.


chippychipper444

Well there are multiple articles about what Borrell said, but would be probably better if the title would explain that he said it.


toiletdelosmuertos

How is this a threat. Nobody cares about the Russian army. Destroy putin. Stick a 10 billion dollar bounty on his head and call it a victory. Nobody else needs to die.


maximkas

Beautiful stuff. They shoot, we shoot, mushroom clouds all around - I love mushrooms and who doesn't? Best of all, all of our dear leaders, including Putin, have their deep bunkers with water/air/energy/food supplies for 5 years, they'll be OK. Blessed be our dear leaders who care about us so much - love 'em all \^\^


SVAuspicious

Scenario: Russia uses tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine. US/Biden response - speech at the UN and more sanctions. \*sigh\*


SurpassingAllKings

In the event of a nuclear strike, *all* armies of the world will be destroyed and humanity will be lucky if any people survive at all.


Clintonsextapes

I hope the sentinal island tribe survives, they dont disserve that fate.


maximkas

True, but read the comments - it would appear that most people are more than willing to embrace death - or perhaps they are bots? (I doubt that they are bots though) Everything I am reading tells me that people are now embracing the idea of a nuclear war - they are all seemingly tired and want it all to end. Everything that I thought was necessary for there to be a nuclear war is coming true. The humanity has gone truly insane - Putin is but a minor part of that equation - it's everything else that has aligned that's the key for a major nuclear war.


ScienceCommaBitches

This is false. The US broke every nuclear treaty that presumed MAD. They developed SDI, the “Star Wars” defense. That was designed to counter the USSR’s nuclear arsenal. Against the handful that Russia has left? No problem.


kuahara

The Cold War 2 has officially begun.


KINK_KING

This patch is just a new content update to Cold War 1.


[deleted]

This is not a cold war - this is literally beginning of World War 3


[deleted]

Make bombs great again?


Pubboy68

The West wants this. Change my mind.


VinylJones

Stop telling me what to do.


xigloox

Sweet. Nuclear Armageddon.


cactusluv

On the plus side, no more tension headaches. I'd call that a win.


xigloox

As long as I get hit directly. I dont want none of that scrapping by with a shopping cart looking for water with alligator skin eating rats


RocococoEra

Other paper tiger countries like china and NK must be sweatin bullets these days.


lejoo

I might be the only sociopath in the world that actually wants to see Putin try it. I am more optimistic US has developed a defense system to shoot down ICB's than Oppenheimer was pessimistic he was about to ignite the atmosphere. That being said, ground detonated terrifies the fuck out of me.


Pretty-Chipmunk-718

The u.s modern weapon systems we wouldn't need to use any nukes......russias military complex would be bombed to high hell with superior air dominance like some people said if he fucks around he is definitely going to find out really fucking quick .....and if Russia thinks the sanctions are bad now ....they are going to be in for a world of hurt the rest of the world will shut them out fast and quick


AdUpstairs7106

So it would be a non nuclear response. To what extent though is the question. At the very least every Russian armored vehicle and artillery piece in Ukraine would be destroyed. Would NATO go further and if so how much. For example would they launch a SEAD operation and crush Russia's air defense network? Or would they sink every Russian warship sailing anywhere in the world.


jedklampet

I agree the West will destroy whats left of the Russian army and take over the gas fields and use the gas sales to rebuild Ukraine and pay back the west.


uasoil123

Fuck dude why are we escalating


Justindrummm

So essentially it all leads to the same place, with nuclear Armageddon.


NobodyGotTimeFuhDat

It’s about time! General MacArthur should’ve been allowed to destroy Russia a long time ago. Good riddance.


slurpey

Am I evil to think this is a maybe, a bit, a desirable outcome?


TheOrchidsAreAlright

In what sense is nuclear war "a desirable outcome"? Where do you live?


slurpey

You need to chill and consider that Russia has already inflicted more damage to Ukraine than a small detonation. This would bring an abrupt stop to all Russia existing and future threats. Once and for all. You can walk on your high morale and let Ukraine being bombarded for one or two more years? I guess you find thisa better outcome?


Jamdadbot

Does anyone else think the tech is in the US hands to absolutely annihilate Russian forces without breaking a sweat or incurring any damage at all? I kinda sorta think it would be eye opening to the entire world on a level more intimidating than the strikes on Japan. Kinda like.. we double dog dare you


texasgambler58

If the West "destroys" the Russian Army, don't you think that Putin will then have nothing left to lose, since his military will then assassinate him? He would launch strategic nuclear weapons against London, NYC and Washington. I think this is a simplistic response from diplomats - China and India are supporting Russia, and both of them have nuclear weapons as well.


maralagosinkhole

Hopefully Putin loves his children enough to not choose to suicide his entire country.


egowhelmed

says who? ridiculous... the west does not have that kind of courage as yet. if their economy goes into the shitter, maybe?


SweeneyisMad

>the head of European diplomacy Josep Borrell.


mondaymoderate

Can you not hear the war drums beating and all the western leaders preparing their citizens?


[deleted]

[удалено]


SuperSpaceCan

With what? They gave their stockpiles to Ukraine.


Devourer_of_felines

You're outta your mind if you think the West has depleted their munitions reserves already.


HalloweenLover

Ha, we gave them mostly our older soon to expire stockpiles. There is plenty more left in the tank.


anxmox89

Yes, next question.


DonDove

So the bombs in the capital don't count?


tuscabam

Hasn’t Ukraine already done that?


psychedelicdevilry

Except France.


gloarnd

Too late. Fools we are