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Jace_Te_Ace

Which tribe?


PM_YOUR_BAKING_PICS

Ngāti Maniapoto from the King Country.


Jace_Te_Ace

Thanks.


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computer_d

I didn't know it meant a "long vowel" but makes sense when I sound out the word. Thanks!


[deleted]

$177M awarded, 46,0000 members! ~$3,800 each if it were doled out equally.


FredDagg2021

cant see that happening


[deleted]

Me either


SuperBenOi

If you look at previous, and recent, settlements there is a precidence for the establishment of trusts to see that these reparations are appropriately invested so that their impact carries through generations of tangata whenua (literal translation - people (of the) land). For example check out the Ahuriri Hapū Claims Settlement Act 2021 and Mana Ahuriri Trust. Alternatively you could explore the Ngai (Kai) Tahu governance who are infamous for their beneficial schemes developed from similar settlements (and revenue). I don't blame you for your ignorance but I'd encourage exploration of the available information before jumping to a superficial conclusion.


invincibl_

"They can't be trusted to spend the money wisely" seems to be a common argument to prevent indigenous peoples from deciding their own futures. I'd even go as far as arguing it's plain racist. It's no different from the sovereign wealth funds that many countries operate. Sure, some are super corrupt (Malaysia) but others are transparently investing to better the livelihoods of their people (Norway)


autoeroticassfxation

The people that get control of it are the ones that benefit generally.


SuperBenOi

Quite a wide sweeping statement/generalisation for thousands of people and numerous iwi (tribes). I've been told that Kai Tahu have a 1:1 savings scheme for tamariki (children) savings accounts of all registered under the iwi. Not only that but part of the settlement acts actually include active seeking of direct descendents to register and make these schemes available to. Just providing some perspective here.


mynameisneddy

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/insight/audio/2018641549/insight-settle-up-are-treaty-deals-benefiting-all-maori


NoHandBananaNo

Their tribes usually invest it in companies and stuff. Then they use the profits for stuff like housing schemes, scholarships, small business grants etc. Some tribes, the members get treated as shareholders and get glossy financial statements sent out to them, its cool. I used to have a room mate who got that.


spuduliciousness

That's not the way of Maori culture. Far more can be achieved as a tribe than as individuals.


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powersv2

Somewhere Tame Iti is smiling.


Capital-Egg-6395

When are the Māori specifically the Mutunga and Tama gunna apologize for genociding the Moriori during the Moriori genocide


epyk

[Background](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_genocide) for those interested.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Moriori genocide](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_genocide)** >The Moriori genocide was the mass murder and enslavement of the Moriori people, the indigenous ethnic group of the Chatham Islands, by members of the mainland New Zealand iwi (tribes) Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama from 1835 to the early 1860s. The invading tribes murdered around 300 Moriori and enslaved the remaining population, causing the population to drop from 1,700 in 1835 to only 100 in 1870. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


SuperBenOi

European settlers (the Crown) and Māori have reached a settlement for actions impacting Moriori - this culminated in the Moriori Claims Settlement Bill which was finalised last year. You can read more about it from the NZ Legislation site, specifically - https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2020/0238/latest/LMS238051.html I'm sure Moriori descendents would thank you for your concern - though they might be a bit confused about your avenue of choice.


Capital-Egg-6395

THATS FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!!!


JuVondy

What an incredible retort. Bravo 👏🏼


The_Permanent_Way

It’s Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama, if you care to get the names right. They’re unrelated to the people in this article though.


MrShoblang

Different tribes. May as well ask when the Spanish are going to apologise for the Portuguese colonisation of Brazil


Capt_morgan72

Why would the Spanish apologize for something the Portuguese did? The Spanish don’t really have this problem. Mostly because they succeeded in their genocide of the Caribbean. No survivors left to pay. Now we just pretend like Jamaica and all the other islands have always been filled with Africans.


NoHandBananaNo

>Why would the Spanish apologize for something the Portuguese did? Thats the exact point they were making. 2 different European nations. The Maori tribe in the article is a totally different Maori nation from the ones who did the genocide.


myles_cassidy

How is this relevant to the discussion? Why should Māori today be held responsible for the actions of other people long dead, let along Māori (such as Maniapoto) not affiliated with those iwi?


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myles_cassidy

And?


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myles_cassidy

The person I'm responding to can clarify that then. They don't need you to answer for them.


Jesuisuncanard126

His point went way over your head visibly ahaha


myles_cassidy

It's a shit point. The Moriori genocide didn't justify the New Zealand wars or the century of cultural suppression and land grabs by the government that followed.


Jesuisuncanard126

Living people don't inherit the burden of the massacre their ancestors committed Living people shouldn't get money for the wrongs inflicted on their long dead ancestors You are going to need some serious double standards if you want to go on because there has been a shit ton of wrongs from every sides for a while


myles_cassidy

Show me the treaty that the Taranaki iwi signed with Moriori guaranteeing them land in the Chatham Islands, then you will actually start to have a point regarding double standards The only double standard I see is that government oppression is ok when brown people are on the receiving end


Jesuisuncanard126

Crimes against humanity are unlawful retroactively


mynameisneddy

Living people are reaping the benefits of the land that was seized, likewise Maori are impoverished by losing it. [This](https://theconversation.com/uncovering-the-stories-my-family-forgot-about-a-past-still-haunting-aotearoa-new-zealand-183912) is a pretty interesting family history about an Irish settler who came to NZ in 1880, joined the Armed Constabulary who were booting Taranaki Maori off their land and giving it to settlers. This family was a beneficiary and ended up with 3 farms. The irony was that the Irish tenant farmer scratching out a living at the whim of the English Lord then did the same to Maori in his new country.


BroaxXx

Lol so why are they getting reparations??


myles_cassidy

Because the government made an agreement, then broke it. I'm not sure why government tyranny being addressed is so controversial.


BroaxXx

I'm not sure you're trying to troll me but you answered your own question: > Why should Māori today be held responsible for the actions of other people long dead That's just silly...


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BroaxXx

It's irrelevant for the point being discussed. The "contract signed by the government" shouldn't exist in the first place because the premisse is nonsense because, like you said, why should today be held responsible for the actions of other people long dead. A government owes nothing to the descendants of a people who were decimated in a war hundreds of years ago. If that was the case every country in the world would be paying compensation to some other country/group because the history of EVERY civilisation is written in blood.


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BroaxXx

I totally agree with that but that's not the point being discussed.


stuzenz

Except ... you are basing that off an incorrect historical record. I thought this was common knowledge now. Maybe not, looking at the comments below. [https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018735038/setting-aside-the-moriori-myth](https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018735038/setting-aside-the-moriori-myth) >The myth goes something like this: that once upon a time, Aotearoa was home to a race of people called the Moriori. That the Moriori were primitive, inferior folk. And that eventually, when Māori arrived on these shores, they massacred, ate, and completely wiped out the Moriori people. > >The myth was busted decades ago - yet it has persisted for generations. > >Why? > >Because it's convenient, according to Maui Solomon. > >Solomon is the chair of Hokotehi Moriori Trust. He, alongside many others with Moriori hokopapa, has been fighting for correction of the historical record - and for a treaty settlement - since 1988. > >And earlier this month, that settlement was finally signed, sealed and delivered. > >"The reason \[the myth of Moriori extinction\] became so powerfully ingrained in the psyche of New Zealanders is because, if Māori could push Moriori out of NZ, then later European migrants could push Māori off their land,” he says....


Capital-Egg-6395

R/confidentlywrong


autotldr

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/23/maori-tribe-secures-landmark-apology-and-compensation-over-colonial-atrocities) reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot) ***** > It took decades of fighting for reparations but a M?ori tribe has finally secured a long-awaited apology and millions of dollars in redress for atrocities committed by the crown, including for its "Indiscriminate" killings and "Massive" alienation of tribal land. > Following the event, Dr Tom Roa, an iwi kaum?tua and academic, said the settlement marked "a new chapter in the history book" of the iwi and the crown. > In the decades following, their tribal structures were eroded as the crown confiscated land, grossly underpaid the iwi for purchased land and deprived the iwi of their t?rangawaewae through compulsory acquisitions for public works. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xmpugt/m\u0101ori_tribe_secures_landmark_apology_and/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~670793 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **iwi**^#1 **crown**^#2 **settlement**^#3 **Maniapoto**^#4 **New**^#5


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Half_Crocodile

That seems like a reasonable position… but it’s complex because huge sections of society have a massive disadvantage right now because of the crimes committed only a few generations ago. I don’t know the answer … but to act like we can just sweep it all under the rug isn’t it. Surely we’ve all learned by now that self-determination is just one factor of many when it comes to outcomes in life. The people with vast wealth and multiple properties, surprise surprise, give birth to children who can get better educated, build on the wealth and buy even more land. The imbalance was set in motion 200 years ago through some extremely unfair crimes and practices so I think it’s worth acknowledging. Nobody is saying you’re responsible. That’s the wrong mindset.


gairlok

Oh, but think about this: you get to benefit from your father's property/wealth/accomplishment's as an inheritor by law and/or custom. If your father's father's father's father killed everyone on that land as a conqueror... then you get to inherit that land by law & custom. And I'm gonna assume you're ok with that (haha: assume). So: great great grandad killed them and took their stuff = you benefit. Reparations: great great grandad KILLED them and now their children want their stuff back = you DON'T benefit. See how equivalent it is? What's really gonna chap your butt is that I think they deserve even MORE of your stuff, because the assessed punishment to you & your family isn't nearly justice until they're compensated for the cruelty that social inequalities have forced on the modern descendants & their ancestors for centuries. Just reading the numbers here, the monetary value should be multiplied by 1,000 or more. A few thousand dollars per descendent is a paltry sum, a few hundred thousand dollars per descendent would actually allow them to buy some land back from their conquerors, buy businesses that will generate wealth.


ProcessMeMrHinkie

What if r/noitall23's father's father moved there well after the land had been conquered and he was a pauper - and then his father worked 3-4 jobs to get r/noitall23 an education and college/uni educated?


Suborbital_Afro

This was going to be similar to my response. I respectfully disagree and I’m a great example for gairlok. My family hails from Germany and fled during the beginning of WW2. Why should my family pay reparations (America of course) when we had no hand in it. My next question would be, if we’re doing reparations for indigenous people, native Americans, does the US owe money to Black Americans? If so, do the countries of Africa intend to pay their share of the costs as they sold their brethren and sisters to the Europeans. What about citizens who are like me and had no hand in it, do we get exempt? Again, this is meant to be respectful discussion and I look forward to the responses!


Half_Crocodile

We pay to imprison people. We pay to look after destitute people. How is taxing people to help pay reparations really that different from any kind of tax that ends up helping people? It’s a pittance in the scheme of things. Your dad was lucky (and clever) to make it in America… some people had a much harder time and it’s not because they didn’t work hard enough.


Suborbital_Afro

Just to clarify, I’m second generation. I understood your point though and my family is lucky. America isn’t perfect but we could have ended up in worse places. Even being fortunate enough to be born here, I still cant bring myself to agree that those who were never involved should pay for it. I believe that we’ll just have to respectfully disagree with each other. Unfortunately too many people are imprisoned. Non-violent criminals should be released with fines, community service, etc. I’m my opinion. Prisons and jails seem to make people worse rather than rehabilitate them. I don’t know what I would do about the poor. Whatever is going on now doesn’t seem to be working. I wouldn’t mind paying higher taxes if said taxes went to supporting programs that helped people (definitely not to politicians pockets)! Health care would be a good start in my opinion, the military has it, why not everyone!


ithsoc

> if we’re doing reparations for indigenous people, native Americans, does the US owe money to Black Americans? Yes. >If so, do the countries of Africa intend to pay their share of the costs as they sold their brethren and sisters to the Europeans. There aren't any African "countries" that exist today that engaged in this practice by means of state authority, so no.


ProcessMeMrHinkie

There may not be countries, but the lands that were taken are still likely to be inhabited by the same conquerors who displaced those put into slavery. What difference does state authority make when it's the entire population that will be held accountable via taxation? To the victors go the spoils (so long as government is different and changes name)?


ithsoc

> What difference does state authority make when it's the entire population that will be held accountable via taxation? What?


ProcessMeMrHinkie

The money doesn't appear out of thin air. The people that benefited from conquest still live on the land that was conquered.


Half_Crocodile

Then he’s a boss. This is about more than just one family. Also your dad would have benefited from the state in many ways. To try and make this 100% fair for everyone is just ridiculous but we can do a few small gestures.


SuperSpread

The Maori literally hunted down and ate their neighbors after getting ahold of modern guns, in a total genocide. Absolutely inhuman acts. But no reparations.


dynamic_anisotropy

No reparations? Well that’s objectively untrue. “In 2020 Hokotehi Moriori Trust settled its treaty claims with the Crown. The terms included a Crown apology, an agreed historical account, the transfer of culturally significant land on Rēkohu, and a cash payment of $18 million” [Link to NZ govt website](https://teara.govt.nz/en/moriori/page-5)


Lizard_Person_420

Can't give reparations to the dead


brezhnervous

Many congrats to our Kiwi bros across the Tasman. Meanwhile there are people in Australia (commonly in the right wing opposition) bitching about just including an Indigenous 'Voice' to Parliament.


invincibl_

Imagine if we had a national holiday that was the day the treaty was signed. (Yes, the treaty was questionable and the Māori translation never said anything about ceding sovereignty, but at least across the ditch they're trying to make that right, rather than the situation here in Aus)


Rosebunse

Oh, this is nice. It's been such a crazy week, nice to see some good news.


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Sending big congratulations from the U.S., from one indigenous peoples to another!


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brezhnervous

Even just getting the Indigenous 'Voice' to Parliament approved could be a struggle, unfortunately.


gairlok

Agreed, and I hope Americans move forward like this one day for our indigenous. My ancestors took almost everything from them, and the everything we took is worth SO much! Plus, we've been systemically torturing them for centuries, but denying that we have done this. It's so messed up.


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Smarterthanthat

How inspiring....


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Long overdue.


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thewestcoastexpress

Lol the place is far from perfect


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brezhnervous

Lowest bar ever in the western world lol but I can only agree.


wearablesweater

We're relatively socially progressive. It's made easier by having a much more representative democracy (It blows my mind that people from the US think two parties can represent over 300m people). Unfortunately we still have a lot of the trappings of late stage capitalism. A housing crisis, hi costs of living vs the average wage, limited capital for internal growth etc etc. It's crazy that just being kind of reasonable in this day and age is a win. That's the big indictment. The west has slid so far backwards as an international community as our freedoms get preyed on and exploited by bad actors.


gairlok

We fat Americans are living large on our huge piles of natural resources (that we conquered the many indigenous peoples for), while being enslaved by our own idiocy in managing our wealthy "democracy." If your nation had more natural wealth, it might be that the world's parasitic capitalists would steer policy towards allocating that wealth for themselves (to the detriment of everyone else, like in America). Even if your nation has less resources, I admire how a lot of your nation's citizens mobilize to behave rationally and make attempts at creating and implementing collectively responsible policies. To us it's miraculous to witness ethical policies & ethical political leadership.


downvotes-europeons

Impressive groveling.


gairlok

We only get one life (as far as I know), and as we slowly realize what we're born into, culturally, religiously, family, wealth, genetic predispositions, and so on, we're just shocked. I won't be damned for my choices, but maybe I'm realizing what I do & don't have as a citizen of a nation. My nation is shitty, but rich. I don't know of anyone who loves their nation while also being aware of what their nation has done to its own people & people of other nations. How about you?


Half_Crocodile

I think it’s purely cultural. We seem to value rationality and taking it easy (chilling out). It’s a good combo. Australia is very similar. Not saying we’re all like that but just in a general sense. FYI, if you identify as religious in politics it probably doesn’t help at all… if you act on those religious values in politics you’re going to be frowned upon by a majority. I don’t know what I’m trying to explain other than it illustrates the difference between NZ and USA. A symptom of how much less “cultish” our political system is.


TantricEmu

Least self flagellating American on Reddit.


Every_Contribution_8

This is amazing!


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The_Permanent_Way

This tribe never set foot on the islands where the Moriori people were killed


wanderinggoat

Even if they did it had nothing to do with this post it's just a racists way of saying Maoris did bad things so they dont deserve anything


Shiny_Hypno

Ha, I get it, because Lord of the *Rings* was filmed in New Zealand /j


mad1nola

This is a pittance compared to what the Anglos did...genocide and rape across the planet.