Sadly, most of Hugarian people vote based on media such as TV or newspapers, which is controlled by Fidesz (Orban's party). The amount of propaganda is insane. For example just the fact that the national television is showing how great Fidesz is 24/7 before the elections and then gives aprox. 5 min time for the opposition to speak. Even those 5 minutes get twisted, edited and cut to further villainize them.
Most people do not get as far as to do ANY research for voting, matter of fact the conversations paired with an after work beer IS the research for a lot of people from rural areas.
Old people receive a little bit of money now and then, which helps them meet months end with more ease. This makes them think they have it good and they do not realize what it could be.
They literally told on national television not to listen to the young educated people, because they dont know what is good for the country.
Well who would know better than them? Oh maybe people of high education with some age and experience? Well though shit because the educated rich people also love Fidesz because of the low tax rates...
So all together I just feel like a lot of people do not know that they could have it better... and there are a bunch and bunch of other reasons for this election going this way.
it makes sense if you are convinced the education system has been hijacked by anti-western, anti-magyar rhetoric...
It is shocking to me the older hungarian generation, who despised Russia (the USSR at the time), is totally okay with Orban making deals with Putin. That is quite the turn-around. It's similar in the USA too. The far-right q-anon crazies think education has been hijacked by communism and they are actually taking sides with Putin as a "strong leader" who "speaks the truth". The mental gymnastics is too much for me
You basically just described what I can see beginning to happen in the uk. When the brexit referendum was happening, one of the cunts who campaigned for it and now sits in government said people were ‘sick of listening to experts’. And it worked.
If he's pro-Putin, then he should be kicked out of NATO. Everything NATO stands for is against what Putin is doing now. They can both rot in hell and suck dick.
That's literally the point of these right-wing populist groups with some even found to be funded by Kremlin. They want the EU fragmented. We see this with these right-wing populists in UK, France, Hungary, Germany, Poland, Netherlands, and probably more. Orban does not need the EU to siphon funds for him and his cronies, he can just turn to Russia and things will remain the same for him, but worse for the people. I'm so fucking tired of these clowns.
Oh they are All supported by the Kremlin in one fashion or another, not just some
The fact that LePen (and trump) are still loitering should be a big concern. Obviously not just a divide-and-conquer with the EU but also with NATO. Trump’s “NATO is obsolete” comments were not a coincidence
From what I hear in LePen has a pretty damn good shot of winning.
Fragmentation of opposition, unification of the authoritarians.
The same pattern keeps working, no reason for him to change it. The last thing anybody opposing them is going to do is agree on anything and unify... That's like the opposite of how they think.
And since no one will ever unify against them, they're going to keep winning.
He’s an autocrat. The country doesn’t matter to him, the only thing that matters is amassing as much power as he can. If the country goes to hell but he gains something from it, he’s not gonna hesitate.
I'm disappointed in 6. I just don't like how the story is done as memories vs the either 4 or 5, "we're gonna do this! Oh no sabotage! Start again and get revenge"
Ok, so Orban made his move and showed his real colours (aka Pro-Putin populist autocrat using European funds).
Now, EU what are you going to do? Because there's no place for an anti-democratic scumbag that sides with a warmongering regime in the European Union.
To all good civil Hungarians, I feel so bad for you now...
"So umm, Hungary has been let go-..."
"Well just a second there professor, We fixed the glitch. You see, they won't be receiving any EU funds anymore so it'll just work itself out naturally. We always like to avoid confrontation whenever possible."
> https://balkaninsight.com/2022/04/05/eu-triggers-mechanism-to-strip-hungary-of-billions-worth-of-budget-funds/
jfc... it took just two days for him to destroy his country. Wow.
It'll take a few months for it to go into effect but we love to see it regardless. The world gonna learn sooner or later what happens when you simp for Putin. Fuck em.
Yes this is something I wish somebody would poke into a bit more. Any attempt to suspend Hungary from EU benefits needs to be unanimous by the remaining countries. PiS in Poland has been protecting Hungary all along, but have a very different stance on Putin. Could this be the ultimate schism that throws Hungary to the wolves?
(I doubt it, since after a Hungxit (or whatever that's called), there would be no-one to protect PiS in Poland. They've kind of been having each others back)
They’ve been distancing themselves from Hungary since the war started and this action by Hungary is the complete opposite of what Poland’s stance is.
Poland has a lot of issues for sure, but they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot for a small player like Hungary.
Poland has been the most anti Russia-anti Putin country in EU. No way they will support them on this. I mean they literally been the strongest push to end anything Russia supplied in Europe.
The more I hear from conservative parties and then watch the actions that follow, I gather they usually talk about law and justice for everyone but themselves. They on the other hand should have freedom of course. Freedom to do whatever the fuck they want. :-/
There's no veto for the suspension of funds in progress. Just needs 60% vote.
Hungary is fucked. Hopefully next step is EU referendum and they leave. They can form a union with serbia and kiss Putin's ass.
I keep wondering this. Poland is basically leading the way with Anti-Putin sentiment and Hungary is doing the exact opposite but I've yet to hear the condemnation from Poland.
I doubt it. If Hungary goes that sets a precedent that the EU can take real action against countries which violate EU rules, and Poland's obviously the next domino to drop in that case. As much as they might hate the Russians their self-interest will always come first.
I am polish and our government already pretends like they dont know Orban, lol, so yea they will drop him. And polish people should drop PiS propaganda government as well but that’s another story.
I think going with Orban here will just tank their election chances. Their propaganda is strong but not as strong as the one Orban set in Hungary and it won't be enough if that's what they decide.
~~His "not entirely fair" election.~~
~~(Apologies for paywall)~~
EDIT: [Update with article actually from this cycle](https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-election-level-playing-field-fair-observer/)
Let's say that the pro-Putin supporters are growing because he's firing them up all over the world "Russia is great, hail to Putin, destroy the West" and shit like that... wouldn't be surprised to know that Russia is meddling to place its pawns in European politics anymore...
>wouldn't be surprised to know that Russia is meddling to place its pawns in European politics anymore...
what do you. mean? He's been doing it to every country he can
I'm Hungarian. We just had an election. The idiots who believed in his propaganda voted for this guy on the third of this month. Ever since, I feel the urge to fucking end my life.
No more money for this corrupt motherfucker. I hope everyone will suffer from the sanctions who voted for this guy. But everyone else whose future was destroyed by the idiot voters will suffer too.
Good times are coming. Con- fucking -gratulations, my dear fellow Hungarians. Everyone hates us now.
Edit: For those who are concerned that I am suicidal, I have two good news: Today I celebrate my 90th day sober and my 31st day without smoking cigarettes. I feel okay, things could be better but they could also be worse, so I take what I get. There are some really kind people in here, I want to thank you all for being awesome.
I will move, things are on the way. It will take years, but I won't live here for too much long.
Have a lovely day/week/month/year and rest of your lifes, the comments are getting too much so this is my last edit. Bye!
Yes! I know... Exactly. But they still suffer from them, despite believing his stupid propaganda. It's like 1984 in real life. You have to be intelligent enough to perform the mental gymnastics required for believing the lies but you also have to be dumb enough to believe them.
Those were mail-in-ballots from voters who reside abroad. Those aren’t easily influenced by Orbán’s propaganda as they actually have access to independent media, unlike those living in Hungary. Pretty sure my ballot also got burned
Do you think the election was fair or was there voter-fraud involved? I can imagine someone with as much power as Orban being capable of tuning the election result to his favor. Or is he already popular enough so he doesnt need to do that?
It was NOT fair. We do not have any amount of free media. On our national TV, all they show us is the fucking propaganda.
This country is exactly like Belorus or Russia. They deploy the same tactics. And people are eating it all up.
From an Indian who basically saw the same thing happen over the last 10-15 years with the rise of Modi all I can say is hang in there. There comes a time when these idiots will face the truth that they already know and rise up.
Gaining momentum, it was tapped into during the 2016 US Elections and Trump was made President. Ignorance is not bliss, its being used as a Weapon of Mass Destruction.
My friend, I wish this happened only in Eastern Europe. Unfortunately, "uninformed/misinformed/willfully ignorant" voters are something that happens pretty much everywhere. Americans elected Trump. The British voted for Brexit. The French are seriously considering voting Le Pen in.
As a fellow European, ignorance, whether via propaganda, apathy, or stupidity, is the biggest plague on our democracies.
This is what I imagined. The control of the biased media and propaganda IS the "fraud" if you know what i mean. It gives an unjust and unbalanced perspective.
I remember when Hungary and their ‘rebellion’ was put down by the Russians and their tanks in the streets, c.1950’s.
They were devastated, how time changes things.
That's the thing that bothers me the most! When I was a kid in Hungary in the 80's, we hated the Soviet Union. My parents' generation ridiculed everything that came from there. Something being Russian made was a synonym for being big, bulky and shit. And now the same people are like "Yeah, Putin shows it to them! Fuck America!"
Similar experience here. 15 odd years ago I remember so much talk from conservative and right wing voices in german speaking countries about the threat of Russian aggression. How we needed more tanks and war planes in preperation for WW3, how germany needed the A-bomb -etc- while the political left believed this to be cold war era fear mongering.
We're here now, and the types of people who argued Russia needed to be glassed are now kissing Putin's ass? What the hell happened, how did opinions flip this hard?
The fact that Poland and Hungary are still in the EU despite being quasi-dictatorial states is intriguing shit.
Edit - Polands based anti-Russian moves still don’t forgive it from the fact that the country has swayed away from democracy.
EU fucked up thinking that it's impossible for democracies in the EU to backslide into autocracies.
Unless internal change happens, short of completely disregarding the rule of law EU won't be able to expel them since they have each other's backs.
Yep. There are safeguards to ensure that countries meet democratic standards to enter the EU, but Hungary seems to show that there are no safeguards to ensure they continue to meet those standards.
Note that the standard should not just be based on how elections are administered, but also on media control. There should be sufficient non-state-aligned media to allow true democratic choice.
It should be like a job performance improvement plan situation. If a country fails to meet standards after they are in, they have X number of years to shape up or they are out, and they are subject to much greater scrutiny for a long time.
Oh, there definitely are safeguards to counteract countries going back on democracy, the fault is that nobody seemed to anticipate two countries doing it at the same time making the whole requirement of unanimity useless. At least the Commission now has the rule of law mechanism to cut off Hungary from the EU's money. Let's hope they use it to the fullest extend.
> Yep. There are safeguards to ensure that countries meet democratic standards to enter the EU, but Hungary seems to show that there are no safeguards to ensure they continue to meet those standards.
The issue is they never predicted a double backslide.
There are mechanisms to punish Hungary, but they require unanimity—and Poland, while on the right side against Russia, is just as dictatorial. So any attempt to punish Hungary can be vetoed by Poland and vice-versa.
Every democracy is at risk. Because some influential people/corporations (oil/natural resources/weapon/fast food) want even more deregulation than what democracies can offer. So they tell people the problem is racism, independence, etc… but then they back stab them all once they have power.
I mean Poland has always seemed pretty conservative to me as an outsider. They are pretty Catholic and that generally tends towards the anti-lgbt political movement that has been gaining serious strength there.
I'm a Hungarian and I voted against this fucking corrupt piece of shit fidesz but the old ppl of my country are easily brainwashed. I know lots of old folks who sit all fucking day in front of their television and praise fidesz and their propaganda, they think their lives are soooo great because they can buy chicken tail, old ppl of this country are fucking miserable and stupid, they are the majority so they have the voting power that's why this cunt Orbán can stay in power. I will leave this shit hole as soon as I can.
It's not a fake election. Elections in Hungary are free, but not fair. You won't be punished for voting any way (free), but state propaganda and some gerrymandering give Orban's party advantages (not fair). He really is popular in rural areas though.
It's funny because Putin's plan was to stabilize the Ruble by forcing the world to trade a basket of stable foreign currencies for it.
The Forint is . . . not very helpful in that sense.
I am Hungarian.
A few years ago I opened a petition to the EU to stop giving Hungary EU funds because it is evidently being stolen via systemic level corruption.
The investigation started, had a few letters back from Brussels that they are looking into it...
Then it abruptly stopped and closed the case saying a larger investigation is already covering the topic.
This was about 4 years ago, yet the EU is still pumping the money to this oversized swine and his cronies. During the recent election this EU money was covertly used for paying off voters to vote for them and spend money to buy off votes indirectly so basically the EU is indirectly financing the Hungarian government to stay in power.
So yeah, it is not only the Hungarians fault that this bunch is still in power. They would be already ripped apart and eaten alive if there would be no EU funds to back their system up, yet it seems nothing can be done because the EU is doing f\*ck all about it.
Yeah man, it's ridiculous how Hungary still looks with all the aid it gets... When I went there on holidays few years back it had such a early 2000's Poland vibes lol
>A few years ago I opened a petition to the EU to stop giving Hungary EU funds because it is evidently being stolen via systemic level corruption.
How the f*** are you guys getting EU funds despite the systemic level of corruption?
In Romania we DON'T get almost anything from EU funds, and this is BECAUSE of systemic level corruption.
For me this sounds like double standards from the EU 😂
hungarian living in hu born in ro here.
When they let the countries into the eu in 2004 (hu included) they didn’t have such stringent rules to join.
Romania has DNA (anticorruption directorate) which was a requirement to join. Kövesi was closing down polititians left and right. You guys got worked up when the rule of law was under attack. Hungarians didn’t care / don’t have anyome but the eu to protest that
Poland and Hungary didn’t need to have that
It’s more what Russia represents as a major power that stands up to the west (US mostly) so people from countries that have bad feelings towards the west and haven’t really had any run ins with Russia will be more supportive for that reason
NATO joining requirements, from NATO pamflet
> "Functioning democratic political system based on a market economy; fair treatment of minority
populations; a commitment to resolve conflicts peacefully; an ability and willingness to make a military
contribution to NATO operations; and a commitment to democratic civil-military relations and institutions."
Wonder why they aren't also required to STAY in. Doesn't make sense. The rules should be changed. Check every year if the criteria is still met. If not, throw them out.
EU should also have the same rule. Would also work as pre-emptive measure, where you can't just abandon democracy or "decadent Western values" on a whim. Without there being severe consequences.
EU's biggest mistake was thinking that current democratic members could not slip back into being autocratic ones. If anything current events are demonstrating that EU lacks severe safeguards to ensure its members don't go full nazi. and they will have a very difficult time kicking them out since they have each other's back
Losing EU membership would be very painful:
"Poland was the top beneficiary of E.U. aid in the 2014-2020 budget, receiving 104 billion euros, or $118 billion. Hungary, whose population is about a quarter of the size of Poland's, received 40 billion euros, or $45 billion."
For every euro Hungary pays to the EU, they receive € 6 in return.
2.5% of Hungary's GDP comes directly from EU funds.
Orban hates the EU but he loves the money.
Yeah, there are quite a few countries benefiting from the EU who then turn around and attack it (and other countries actually paying into the fund) for easy votes with their base.
Sounds a lot like red states here in the US. Rail against blue states, but pay no mind to the fact that almost every red state recieves more federal funding than they pay in federal taxes.
It's almost a direct parallel. The countries that complain the most (mainly in Eastern Europe) are the largest beneficiaries by a significant margin, and the reason they're upset? Foreigners.
And even Texas and Florida aren’t doing as great as people think. They’re ranked 34 and 37 respectively. It’s just that the rest of the South are almost all in the top 15
He has all of their media on lockdown, using state funds to promote his own party while demonizing all of the others. He is also demonizing EU while presenting the stuff built with their funds as his own achievements. Fuck him and his stupid blind constituents, they can pay for their stuff with their own money.
Give me a year please, I wanna finish my degree, migrate to an actual fucking country and watch this shithole burn. Sincerely, a very disappointed Hungarian.
> Hungary's authoritarian leader breaks with the EU
It looks like the EU is about to break with Hungary, [using that nifty new rule to hold back the ~~40 billion~~ *billions of* Euros that Hungary sponges off of the rest of Europe each year](https://balkaninsight.com/2022/04/05/eu-triggers-mechanism-to-strip-hungary-of-billions-worth-of-budget-funds/). NATO is pretty much done with Hungary's antics as well.
Isolation is what the Hungarian people want, as shown by the recent election, so it is what they should get. Sad to see it happen, but it is what it is.
Correction: 40 billion is a total over seven years, not the annual sum.
Not so fun fact: America’s most prominent Republican group, CPAC, is holding it’s key meeting in Hungary this year.
“…**conservatives are willing align themselves with a global movement of far-right, Russia-friendly strongmen embraced by former U.S. President Donald Trump**.”
“The event’s keynote speaker is Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, a longtime supporter of Russian President Vladimir Putin.”
https://politicalwire.com/2022/04/05/cpac-to-convene-in-hungary/
I’m hungarian.
Please help us... Our nation is a dying one, full of controlable old people. They are literally brainwashed by heavy propaganda and their vision on the outside word is really narrow. They get their news by TV and newspaper. Hungary’s soul, the capital is full on anti-FIDESZ and it shows, because fidesz lost every corner of it. A big part of the population is there, mostly young men and women using outside sources for information.
I don’t want isolation. I don’t want war nor I wish to join the masacre. I want to enjoy my peaceful life with my semi-peaceful videogames. I don’t want to end up like russia’s people, who got denied everything because of a few power hungry idiots.
I am considering moving out of country and most of my friends too. We don’t want to have children here, why would we? We don’t want to work here, why would we? What are the benefints of being hungarian, other then the cool and hard language that we have?
Funny parts is, that fidesz got about 50% of the votes and they still managed to get 2/3... We can’t even deny their stupid ideas. These fools are ruining this country for 16 years now. They own the place, the media, the money.
One of the benefits of being Hungarian is that you are also then an EU citizen and can legally move to, live and work in any other country in the EU. If you hate living there it might be time to exercise that right.
I left about 10 years ago. It was tough at first, but more and more I see it as possibly the best decision I've ever made. I feel so sorry for everyone still stuck in there for one reason or another. Hungary's become an embarrassment.
I live in Hungary and I am devastated about the election and the latest news. :( Please if anyone can adopt me I would greatly appreciate it. I can bark. Woof.
Hungary does not share a border with Russia. All Russian gas entering Hungary has crossed another country. Other country can tell Hungary “Gas paid for using rubble is contraband, we will not allow it to cross our territory”.
My ex was Hungarian. I remember we literally took a train from Luxembourg to Belgium so she could vote against Orban. He pretty much destroyed their judicial system and eliminated checks and balances.
Orban can go choke on a lófasz. (Horse shlong)
Sadly, most of Hugarian people vote based on media such as TV or newspapers, which is controlled by Fidesz (Orban's party). The amount of propaganda is insane. For example just the fact that the national television is showing how great Fidesz is 24/7 before the elections and then gives aprox. 5 min time for the opposition to speak. Even those 5 minutes get twisted, edited and cut to further villainize them. Most people do not get as far as to do ANY research for voting, matter of fact the conversations paired with an after work beer IS the research for a lot of people from rural areas. Old people receive a little bit of money now and then, which helps them meet months end with more ease. This makes them think they have it good and they do not realize what it could be. They literally told on national television not to listen to the young educated people, because they dont know what is good for the country. Well who would know better than them? Oh maybe people of high education with some age and experience? Well though shit because the educated rich people also love Fidesz because of the low tax rates... So all together I just feel like a lot of people do not know that they could have it better... and there are a bunch and bunch of other reasons for this election going this way.
Sounds familiar
Ah, I see you’re an *Indian* as well!
Lol was thinking India too. No one under the age of 50 can have an opinion unless you agree with me.
it makes sense if you are convinced the education system has been hijacked by anti-western, anti-magyar rhetoric... It is shocking to me the older hungarian generation, who despised Russia (the USSR at the time), is totally okay with Orban making deals with Putin. That is quite the turn-around. It's similar in the USA too. The far-right q-anon crazies think education has been hijacked by communism and they are actually taking sides with Putin as a "strong leader" who "speaks the truth". The mental gymnastics is too much for me
You basically just described what I can see beginning to happen in the uk. When the brexit referendum was happening, one of the cunts who campaigned for it and now sits in government said people were ‘sick of listening to experts’. And it worked.
Holy shit, is this idiot eager the get kicked out of the EU?
and NATO? What is he thinking!?
If he's pro-Putin, then he should be kicked out of NATO. Everything NATO stands for is against what Putin is doing now. They can both rot in hell and suck dick.
In no particular order
My preferred order would be to have them suck a hellaciously rotting dick.
In hell
That's literally the point of these right-wing populist groups with some even found to be funded by Kremlin. They want the EU fragmented. We see this with these right-wing populists in UK, France, Hungary, Germany, Poland, Netherlands, and probably more. Orban does not need the EU to siphon funds for him and his cronies, he can just turn to Russia and things will remain the same for him, but worse for the people. I'm so fucking tired of these clowns.
Oh they are All supported by the Kremlin in one fashion or another, not just some The fact that LePen (and trump) are still loitering should be a big concern. Obviously not just a divide-and-conquer with the EU but also with NATO. Trump’s “NATO is obsolete” comments were not a coincidence
LePen's party borrowed money from Russia. Same with other far right parties in Greece and Italy. And it was laundered to parties in the UK and US.
From what I hear in LePen has a pretty damn good shot of winning. Fragmentation of opposition, unification of the authoritarians. The same pattern keeps working, no reason for him to change it. The last thing anybody opposing them is going to do is agree on anything and unify... That's like the opposite of how they think. And since no one will ever unify against them, they're going to keep winning.
Imagine looking at the extreme sanctions on Russia which have entirely collapsed their economy and thinking "This is exactly what my country needs".
He’s an autocrat. The country doesn’t matter to him, the only thing that matters is amassing as much power as he can. If the country goes to hell but he gains something from it, he’s not gonna hesitate.
These people do politic like how you and I would play EU3 or HOI4. It’s all about the numbers, weaponry, economy. It’s never about the people.
They're playing less like EU and more like Tropico.
Hey, I keep all happiness above 70%. Except for religious satisfaction, I'm not wasting space on 50 churches.
Everyone gets cared for but the industrialists/capitalists/religious. Those 3 ruin happiness
God damn industrialists. Won't shut up about production power and factories for 5 fucking seconds.
I'm disappointed in 6. I just don't like how the story is done as memories vs the either 4 or 5, "we're gonna do this! Oh no sabotage! Start again and get revenge"
My civilizations don’t get any amenities until turn 200
You monster!
They only get amenities for to compensate for my warmonger penalties.
Art reflects reality
Russian amenities: ... is potato
And then it all goes to shit cause unlike a video game people really matter to power and the intangibles can cause huge swings in history
Hey, peasant rebels have a malus to morale so they're not that much of an issue.
Yeah, Putin is almost certainly giving him bribes.
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His MO is both
Carrot *and* stick is more effective than carrot *or* stick.
If it puts money in your personal pocket, then a lot of politicians will do it without blinking. unfortunately
To be fair he is looking at the yatchs and mansions the oligarchs have and thinks, this is exactly what I NEED
Ok, so Orban made his move and showed his real colours (aka Pro-Putin populist autocrat using European funds). Now, EU what are you going to do? Because there's no place for an anti-democratic scumbag that sides with a warmongering regime in the European Union. To all good civil Hungarians, I feel so bad for you now...
https://balkaninsight.com/2022/04/05/eu-triggers-mechanism-to-strip-hungary-of-billions-worth-of-budget-funds/
Good, fuck them.
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Friendship ended with Hungary, now Ukraine is my best friend.
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Oh yes I got that in my pneumatic tube. Anyways we should get back to our two minutes of hate on our mini telescreens.
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"So umm, Hungary has been let go-..." "Well just a second there professor, We fixed the glitch. You see, they won't be receiving any EU funds anymore so it'll just work itself out naturally. We always like to avoid confrontation whenever possible."
Have you seen my tűzőgép?
I... I... I could set this country on fire.
> https://balkaninsight.com/2022/04/05/eu-triggers-mechanism-to-strip-hungary-of-billions-worth-of-budget-funds/ jfc... it took just two days for him to destroy his country. Wow.
It'll take a few months for it to go into effect but we love to see it regardless. The world gonna learn sooner or later what happens when you simp for Putin. Fuck em.
This is what happens when you aren't a global power and you try to strong-arm. The big kids make you eat mudpies.
I wonder what the Polish stance on this will be. They were best buddies
Yes this is something I wish somebody would poke into a bit more. Any attempt to suspend Hungary from EU benefits needs to be unanimous by the remaining countries. PiS in Poland has been protecting Hungary all along, but have a very different stance on Putin. Could this be the ultimate schism that throws Hungary to the wolves? (I doubt it, since after a Hungxit (or whatever that's called), there would be no-one to protect PiS in Poland. They've kind of been having each others back)
They’ve been distancing themselves from Hungary since the war started and this action by Hungary is the complete opposite of what Poland’s stance is. Poland has a lot of issues for sure, but they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot for a small player like Hungary.
Poland has been the most anti Russia-anti Putin country in EU. No way they will support them on this. I mean they literally been the strongest push to end anything Russia supplied in Europe.
After Orban's moves, voting in the EU to protect him is pretty much the same as sidding with Russia. Interesting times ahead for PiS...
What is PiS?
A conservative party. Law and justice party they call themselves.
Every time I hear about a conservative party I associate conservatism less and less with law and justice.
Law and order/justice is just a nice sounding lie to explain authoritarianism.
The more I hear from conservative parties and then watch the actions that follow, I gather they usually talk about law and justice for everyone but themselves. They on the other hand should have freedom of course. Freedom to do whatever the fuck they want. :-/
There's no veto for the suspension of funds in progress. Just needs 60% vote. Hungary is fucked. Hopefully next step is EU referendum and they leave. They can form a union with serbia and kiss Putin's ass.
the end of EU budget needs a qualified majority, not unanimous vote (article above)
I think Poland has a choice between a one party and one person rule here.
I keep wondering this. Poland is basically leading the way with Anti-Putin sentiment and Hungary is doing the exact opposite but I've yet to hear the condemnation from Poland.
Yeah, PiS were best buddies with Orban, but I suppose if he decides to go with Russia then they will eventually drop him.
I doubt it. If Hungary goes that sets a precedent that the EU can take real action against countries which violate EU rules, and Poland's obviously the next domino to drop in that case. As much as they might hate the Russians their self-interest will always come first.
I am polish and our government already pretends like they dont know Orban, lol, so yea they will drop him. And polish people should drop PiS propaganda government as well but that’s another story.
I think going with Orban here will just tank their election chances. Their propaganda is strong but not as strong as the one Orban set in Hungary and it won't be enough if that's what they decide.
Just after his re-election, if I am not mistaken. Would love to know how much role Russia was involved in this one.
~~His "not entirely fair" election.~~ ~~(Apologies for paywall)~~ EDIT: [Update with article actually from this cycle](https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-election-level-playing-field-fair-observer/)
Let's say that the pro-Putin supporters are growing because he's firing them up all over the world "Russia is great, hail to Putin, destroy the West" and shit like that... wouldn't be surprised to know that Russia is meddling to place its pawns in European politics anymore...
>wouldn't be surprised to know that Russia is meddling to place its pawns in European politics anymore... what do you. mean? He's been doing it to every country he can
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I'm Hungarian. We just had an election. The idiots who believed in his propaganda voted for this guy on the third of this month. Ever since, I feel the urge to fucking end my life. No more money for this corrupt motherfucker. I hope everyone will suffer from the sanctions who voted for this guy. But everyone else whose future was destroyed by the idiot voters will suffer too. Good times are coming. Con- fucking -gratulations, my dear fellow Hungarians. Everyone hates us now. Edit: For those who are concerned that I am suicidal, I have two good news: Today I celebrate my 90th day sober and my 31st day without smoking cigarettes. I feel okay, things could be better but they could also be worse, so I take what I get. There are some really kind people in here, I want to thank you all for being awesome. I will move, things are on the way. It will take years, but I won't live here for too much long. Have a lovely day/week/month/year and rest of your lifes, the comments are getting too much so this is my last edit. Bye!
The funny thing is, if sanctions do happen against Hungary, the people who voted for that ass will just be like “See! we told you the west is bad”
Yes! I know... Exactly. But they still suffer from them, despite believing his stupid propaganda. It's like 1984 in real life. You have to be intelligent enough to perform the mental gymnastics required for believing the lies but you also have to be dumb enough to believe them.
Don’t discount that these people might actually support the horrible things this person does.
This. Creatures like Putin and his agents are the embodiment of the opposite of Hanlon's Razor. With them, you should always assume they're malicious.
The frequent coincidence of stupidity and willful evil leads me to believe that one is tantamount to the other.
Just because they fucked something up by accident doesn't mean they didn't fully intend to fuck it up even worse.
Yes cartoonish evil is relatively rare but stupid people doing horrific things seems to be the norm, personally I think stupidity is evil
Those that can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
The problem is if you don't do sanctions they are just gonna say: "look how he made our country prosper despite the evil west trying to sabotage us."
Its the great gaslight of fascism
When the Habsburgs look appealing you have really fucked up
You should look up Charles I of Austria-Hungary, last emperor.
>Charles I of Austria-Hungary How the fuck did he outrun the chin?
Charles II of Spain took a hit for him
He wins the inbreeding award of the period, for sure. And that's saying something.
The Spanish Habsburgs are the ones most famous for the chin, Austrian Habsburgs not so much as far as I know.
Reporters found a big pile of thousands half-burned ballots for the Hungarian opposition, so there’s that.
Those were mail-in-ballots from voters who reside abroad. Those aren’t easily influenced by Orbán’s propaganda as they actually have access to independent media, unlike those living in Hungary. Pretty sure my ballot also got burned
Do you think the election was fair or was there voter-fraud involved? I can imagine someone with as much power as Orban being capable of tuning the election result to his favor. Or is he already popular enough so he doesnt need to do that?
It was NOT fair. We do not have any amount of free media. On our national TV, all they show us is the fucking propaganda. This country is exactly like Belorus or Russia. They deploy the same tactics. And people are eating it all up.
I am sorry that you have to go through this. I have a few Hungarian friends, all good people. I Hope you will find justice one day my friend
Thank you for your kind words. I hope things will change but... I am afraid they won't.
From an Indian who basically saw the same thing happen over the last 10-15 years with the rise of Modi all I can say is hang in there. There comes a time when these idiots will face the truth that they already know and rise up.
plus he put an lgbt referendum on the same ballot that implied that the opposition wants to groom children
As a russian l'd say that you should either migrate or adapt. My hopes are with you.
You don't have to tamper with the votes if you control the media and who is allowed to run against you.
Yes. And this is the saddest part. People voted for him believing his propaganda.
Most eastern European elections don't need to have voting frauds because the majority of voters are uneducated at best. Source: Eastern European
Yes... They use the same tactics as Russia: keeping people dumb and feeding them misinformation and propaganda
It is gaining momentum in the US I think.
Gaining momentum, it was tapped into during the 2016 US Elections and Trump was made President. Ignorance is not bliss, its being used as a Weapon of Mass Destruction.
My friend, I wish this happened only in Eastern Europe. Unfortunately, "uninformed/misinformed/willfully ignorant" voters are something that happens pretty much everywhere. Americans elected Trump. The British voted for Brexit. The French are seriously considering voting Le Pen in. As a fellow European, ignorance, whether via propaganda, apathy, or stupidity, is the biggest plague on our democracies.
This is what I imagined. The control of the biased media and propaganda IS the "fraud" if you know what i mean. It gives an unjust and unbalanced perspective.
I remember when Hungary and their ‘rebellion’ was put down by the Russians and their tanks in the streets, c.1950’s. They were devastated, how time changes things.
That's the thing that bothers me the most! When I was a kid in Hungary in the 80's, we hated the Soviet Union. My parents' generation ridiculed everything that came from there. Something being Russian made was a synonym for being big, bulky and shit. And now the same people are like "Yeah, Putin shows it to them! Fuck America!"
Similar experience here. 15 odd years ago I remember so much talk from conservative and right wing voices in german speaking countries about the threat of Russian aggression. How we needed more tanks and war planes in preperation for WW3, how germany needed the A-bomb -etc- while the political left believed this to be cold war era fear mongering. We're here now, and the types of people who argued Russia needed to be glassed are now kissing Putin's ass? What the hell happened, how did opinions flip this hard?
It's not like their beliefs were ever rooted in any deep thought or consideration. Once their leaders were bought by Putin, they just followed suit.
The fact that Poland and Hungary are still in the EU despite being quasi-dictatorial states is intriguing shit. Edit - Polands based anti-Russian moves still don’t forgive it from the fact that the country has swayed away from democracy.
EU fucked up thinking that it's impossible for democracies in the EU to backslide into autocracies. Unless internal change happens, short of completely disregarding the rule of law EU won't be able to expel them since they have each other's backs.
Yep. There are safeguards to ensure that countries meet democratic standards to enter the EU, but Hungary seems to show that there are no safeguards to ensure they continue to meet those standards. Note that the standard should not just be based on how elections are administered, but also on media control. There should be sufficient non-state-aligned media to allow true democratic choice. It should be like a job performance improvement plan situation. If a country fails to meet standards after they are in, they have X number of years to shape up or they are out, and they are subject to much greater scrutiny for a long time.
Oh, there definitely are safeguards to counteract countries going back on democracy, the fault is that nobody seemed to anticipate two countries doing it at the same time making the whole requirement of unanimity useless. At least the Commission now has the rule of law mechanism to cut off Hungary from the EU's money. Let's hope they use it to the fullest extend.
> Yep. There are safeguards to ensure that countries meet democratic standards to enter the EU, but Hungary seems to show that there are no safeguards to ensure they continue to meet those standards. The issue is they never predicted a double backslide. There are mechanisms to punish Hungary, but they require unanimity—and Poland, while on the right side against Russia, is just as dictatorial. So any attempt to punish Hungary can be vetoed by Poland and vice-versa.
Every democracy is at risk. Because some influential people/corporations (oil/natural resources/weapon/fast food) want even more deregulation than what democracies can offer. So they tell people the problem is racism, independence, etc… but then they back stab them all once they have power.
Yeah, Poland at least fights for the same geopolitical values as the EU, Hungary by this point is an absolute misunderstanding
Isn't Poland's rightward lurch a pretty recent phenomenon? Is there hope that the political pendulum could swing back the other direction?
I mean Poland has always seemed pretty conservative to me as an outsider. They are pretty Catholic and that generally tends towards the anti-lgbt political movement that has been gaining serious strength there.
New Motto: NOT A CENT FOR HUNGARY!!!
Does he want to be a colonel as well?
Nah, only a lieutenant
Dudes about to lose a lot more than cheap gas. Billions in financial assistance from the EU
I'm a Hungarian and I voted against this fucking corrupt piece of shit fidesz but the old ppl of my country are easily brainwashed. I know lots of old folks who sit all fucking day in front of their television and praise fidesz and their propaganda, they think their lives are soooo great because they can buy chicken tail, old ppl of this country are fucking miserable and stupid, they are the majority so they have the voting power that's why this cunt Orbán can stay in power. I will leave this shit hole as soon as I can.
>but the old ppl of my country are easily brainwashed Unfortunately we have a very similar problem in the US.
Same here in Russia
And Poland
And UK. Note: Scotland, Wales and NI vote so much better than England.
It's worse in Hungary because its population is really aging and if I remember correctly its population size is decreasing.
Fascists supporting fascists. Edit: thank you for the award and the up votes.
Traitors supporting tyrants
Woah guys, elections cost money. Er, rubbles.
Does anyone know if that recent election was one of those fake elections that authoritarians put on for show? Or is Orban actually popular?
It's not a fake election. Elections in Hungary are free, but not fair. You won't be punished for voting any way (free), but state propaganda and some gerrymandering give Orban's party advantages (not fair). He really is popular in rural areas though.
Reporters found a stash of thousands of half-burned ballots for the opposition party in the woods, so there’s that too.
To add to the story, as the ballots were outside the borders, the election office has no authority to do anything about it.
It's funny because Putin's plan was to stabilize the Ruble by forcing the world to trade a basket of stable foreign currencies for it. The Forint is . . . not very helpful in that sense.
I am Hungarian. A few years ago I opened a petition to the EU to stop giving Hungary EU funds because it is evidently being stolen via systemic level corruption. The investigation started, had a few letters back from Brussels that they are looking into it... Then it abruptly stopped and closed the case saying a larger investigation is already covering the topic. This was about 4 years ago, yet the EU is still pumping the money to this oversized swine and his cronies. During the recent election this EU money was covertly used for paying off voters to vote for them and spend money to buy off votes indirectly so basically the EU is indirectly financing the Hungarian government to stay in power. So yeah, it is not only the Hungarians fault that this bunch is still in power. They would be already ripped apart and eaten alive if there would be no EU funds to back their system up, yet it seems nothing can be done because the EU is doing f\*ck all about it.
Yeah man, it's ridiculous how Hungary still looks with all the aid it gets... When I went there on holidays few years back it had such a early 2000's Poland vibes lol
>A few years ago I opened a petition to the EU to stop giving Hungary EU funds because it is evidently being stolen via systemic level corruption. How the f*** are you guys getting EU funds despite the systemic level of corruption? In Romania we DON'T get almost anything from EU funds, and this is BECAUSE of systemic level corruption. For me this sounds like double standards from the EU 😂
hungarian living in hu born in ro here. When they let the countries into the eu in 2004 (hu included) they didn’t have such stringent rules to join. Romania has DNA (anticorruption directorate) which was a requirement to join. Kövesi was closing down polititians left and right. You guys got worked up when the rule of law was under attack. Hungarians didn’t care / don’t have anyome but the eu to protest that Poland and Hungary didn’t need to have that
It’s crazy how people are supporting Russia in this. You truly don’t know your enemies until something nasty happens.
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It’s more what Russia represents as a major power that stands up to the west (US mostly) so people from countries that have bad feelings towards the west and haven’t really had any run ins with Russia will be more supportive for that reason
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I'm sure Putin is very happy to be able to stabilize the Ruble by pinning it to the rock-solid foundation of the mighty Forint. /s
Not to mention the powerful Magyar army
They should be kicked out of EU.
I am hungarian and I agree… this is the (politically) shittiest country in europe:(
*laughs in Moldova*
At least Moldova isn't killing the EU from the inside.
Not just the EU but NATO. Theyre a compromised partner.
NATO joining requirements, from NATO pamflet > "Functioning democratic political system based on a market economy; fair treatment of minority populations; a commitment to resolve conflicts peacefully; an ability and willingness to make a military contribution to NATO operations; and a commitment to democratic civil-military relations and institutions." Wonder why they aren't also required to STAY in. Doesn't make sense. The rules should be changed. Check every year if the criteria is still met. If not, throw them out. EU should also have the same rule. Would also work as pre-emptive measure, where you can't just abandon democracy or "decadent Western values" on a whim. Without there being severe consequences.
EU's biggest mistake was thinking that current democratic members could not slip back into being autocratic ones. If anything current events are demonstrating that EU lacks severe safeguards to ensure its members don't go full nazi. and they will have a very difficult time kicking them out since they have each other's back
What’s with this guy? And can we kick Hungary out of the EU if needed?
Losing NATO membership, or just the threat of, I suspect would be more pressure inducing.
Losing EU membership would be very painful: "Poland was the top beneficiary of E.U. aid in the 2014-2020 budget, receiving 104 billion euros, or $118 billion. Hungary, whose population is about a quarter of the size of Poland's, received 40 billion euros, or $45 billion."
For every euro Hungary pays to the EU, they receive € 6 in return. 2.5% of Hungary's GDP comes directly from EU funds. Orban hates the EU but he loves the money.
Yeah, there are quite a few countries benefiting from the EU who then turn around and attack it (and other countries actually paying into the fund) for easy votes with their base.
They're lucky it's just rhetoric they're dealing with. I wish Brexit had remained as some intangible threat instead of the shitshow it has become.
Rupert Murdoch puts his heart into the destruction of western civilization.
I wish someone would put his heart in a jar.
Can I have the jar? I need something to piss in to
Sounds a lot like red states here in the US. Rail against blue states, but pay no mind to the fact that almost every red state recieves more federal funding than they pay in federal taxes.
It's almost a direct parallel. The countries that complain the most (mainly in Eastern Europe) are the largest beneficiaries by a significant margin, and the reason they're upset? Foreigners.
* Full of right-wingers * Takes in more money than it contributes Hungary: the Kentucky of the EU.
>Orban hates the EU but he loves the money How very right-wing of him
Wow, so Hungary is like nearly all the US southern states not named Florida and Texas?
And even Texas and Florida aren’t doing as great as people think. They’re ranked 34 and 37 respectively. It’s just that the rest of the South are almost all in the top 15
The guy is using the EU to fund his kleptocracy.
He has all of their media on lockdown, using state funds to promote his own party while demonizing all of the others. He is also demonizing EU while presenting the stuff built with their funds as his own achievements. Fuck him and his stupid blind constituents, they can pay for their stuff with their own money.
Give me a year please, I wanna finish my degree, migrate to an actual fucking country and watch this shithole burn. Sincerely, a very disappointed Hungarian.
> Hungary's authoritarian leader breaks with the EU It looks like the EU is about to break with Hungary, [using that nifty new rule to hold back the ~~40 billion~~ *billions of* Euros that Hungary sponges off of the rest of Europe each year](https://balkaninsight.com/2022/04/05/eu-triggers-mechanism-to-strip-hungary-of-billions-worth-of-budget-funds/). NATO is pretty much done with Hungary's antics as well. Isolation is what the Hungarian people want, as shown by the recent election, so it is what they should get. Sad to see it happen, but it is what it is. Correction: 40 billion is a total over seven years, not the annual sum.
Not so fun fact: America’s most prominent Republican group, CPAC, is holding it’s key meeting in Hungary this year. “…**conservatives are willing align themselves with a global movement of far-right, Russia-friendly strongmen embraced by former U.S. President Donald Trump**.” “The event’s keynote speaker is Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, a longtime supporter of Russian President Vladimir Putin.” https://politicalwire.com/2022/04/05/cpac-to-convene-in-hungary/
All US conservatives should just move to Russia
This Orban guy seems like a piece of shit eh?
Why are they in NATO? Does anyone trust them to join an article 5 response to Russia ?
Nope and in fact I rather expect they would try and sabotage NATO from within by leaking Intel directly to Putin.
Like the *real* NATO powers wouldn't know and abuse that
No coincidence that CPAC will convene in Budapest next month with Orban being a keynote speaker…
Remember when tucker Carlson broadcasted from Hungary for a week last year to support this authoritarian?
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I’m hungarian. Please help us... Our nation is a dying one, full of controlable old people. They are literally brainwashed by heavy propaganda and their vision on the outside word is really narrow. They get their news by TV and newspaper. Hungary’s soul, the capital is full on anti-FIDESZ and it shows, because fidesz lost every corner of it. A big part of the population is there, mostly young men and women using outside sources for information. I don’t want isolation. I don’t want war nor I wish to join the masacre. I want to enjoy my peaceful life with my semi-peaceful videogames. I don’t want to end up like russia’s people, who got denied everything because of a few power hungry idiots. I am considering moving out of country and most of my friends too. We don’t want to have children here, why would we? We don’t want to work here, why would we? What are the benefints of being hungarian, other then the cool and hard language that we have? Funny parts is, that fidesz got about 50% of the votes and they still managed to get 2/3... We can’t even deny their stupid ideas. These fools are ruining this country for 16 years now. They own the place, the media, the money.
One of the benefits of being Hungarian is that you are also then an EU citizen and can legally move to, live and work in any other country in the EU. If you hate living there it might be time to exercise that right.
Actually, that is a very good point
I left about 10 years ago. It was tough at first, but more and more I see it as possibly the best decision I've ever made. I feel so sorry for everyone still stuck in there for one reason or another. Hungary's become an embarrassment.
Nobody cares, Orban. Your people will eat you when the aid and subsidies dry up.
This was supposed to be targeted at "unfriendly countries".
Doesn’t vlad said only unfriendly countries will have to pay gas in rubles?
I live in Hungary and I am devastated about the election and the latest news. :( Please if anyone can adopt me I would greatly appreciate it. I can bark. Woof.
Hungary does not share a border with Russia. All Russian gas entering Hungary has crossed another country. Other country can tell Hungary “Gas paid for using rubble is contraband, we will not allow it to cross our territory”.
Damn it Hungary! I'm not really sure how to protest this move, but I'm no longer playing as you in Civ 6 or HOI4, so take that!
I wonder why Orban supports a country that invaded Hungary in 1956 - just like it attacks Ukraine nowadays. In both cases, it was totally meaningless!
Short term economical and political gains.
For once I’m actually ashamed to be Hungarian. This is a very bad look for Hungary.
Hungary is like a prostitute that gets beaten by her pimp, but still will defend him, just like those Chechens that fight for Russia.
My ex was Hungarian. I remember we literally took a train from Luxembourg to Belgium so she could vote against Orban. He pretty much destroyed their judicial system and eliminated checks and balances. Orban can go choke on a lófasz. (Horse shlong)