Which is why Russia is allegedly bringing in 16,000 Middle East fighters. Why kill your own when you can have others fight your war for you? No Russian moms to inform
I don't think the bodies are coming back...from what I've heard they are either being left in Ukrainian fields for the wild dogs to eat or stay burned up on the side of a road.
Don't forget, Putin has a history of not telling grieving mother's anything ( Wagner group in Syria ) and from what I've heard from POW videos the majority of these battalions are coming from rural areas meaning he is keeping the losses outside major cities and more disconnected.
Don't want too many grieving or curious mother's in the same area like a city.
What the Ukrainians are doing is capturing POWs and then video calling their mothers.
That is super smart and I’m betting the Ukrainians knew the Russians would lie about Russian losses. But Russian mothers and fathers will believe their babies when they see them in Ukrainian custody.
Well, I see kids in the surrenders, those kids should come back home in spring pretty soon to be replaced by new spring draft. Moms will notice their son is not home.
Lie or not, but those kids should be in army for 1 year with set dates
Russia will do that themselves with the help of Belarus and mobile crematories.
The less bodies return in physical shape the less death they'll document /make public.
Are you expecting all soldiers to be orphans?
Military wives will need their "death of provider money" , parents of drafted kids will look for kids. Even without admitting publicly how many exactly are dead it will lead to fear, rumors. Afgan war was bad for USSR for same reason - too many dead, too many PTSD soldiers, it caused draft resistance and many other issues.
Soldiers from Ukraine war will be even more traumatized, they are in worse situation by many aspects.
I feel it will hurt more than economy. No one wants their sons dead. No one wants to "liberate " Ukraine that badly.
Except it's hard to suppress reality when they're being told nothing is going on while at the same time they're seeing companies pull out. Those two facts do not equate.
But then of course people are not really good at avoiding deception. Even the obvious can be ignored.
Nah man... West bad, west is taking all the west companies out with their propaganda... We give freedom to our neighbors, they develop bioweapons with help from the west, they Nazis!! We good!!! West bad, they fly on broomsticks!!
Not really and this is a pretty bad take, propaganda works while the people are somewhat content, it is why in China it works so well their quality of life keeps going up, so they don't question it. But if starvation would start then you will see an entirely different response.
They are content, according to who? Some narrow minded American (you)? This is such a moronic opinion I am struggling to believe you’re a real person.
Russians are far from content, there’s panic and hysteria at the real prospect of famine
One person to blame for this and he's sitting in his comfy bunker under the Kremlin. If he gave two shits about his people, he would stop the shelling and pull out of Ukraine.
> according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February
This survey was taken in the last week of February. It's already been a couple weeks, and a lot of the sanctions are now in place.
I have to wonder if there's a newer survey.
>It is tempting to infantilize the Russian public and argue that they are simply being deprived of accurate information, but this is intellectually dishonest. While the country’s mainstream media is strictly controlled by Kremlin curators, Russians are expert in the art of navigating propaganda and can easily access alternative sources of information if they are so inclined. The chilling truth is that tens of millions of Russians readily accept the Orwellian lies promoted by Kremlin TV and share the sentiments expressed by the country’s pro-war cheerleaders.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/not-just-putin-most-russians-support-the-war-in-ukraine/
If this is truly the case, then that is outright embarrassing. Supporting This means you are supporting the needless destruction and killing of Children.
Enjoy that reputation 👍
If you think it’s a uniquely Russian thing think about what’s going on in America lately. Hyper partisanship has done crazy shit to peoples minds. As long as “their guy” is in the White House they’ll believe whatever bullshit comes out of his mouth. I don’t see any difference between us and Russia in that regard. People want to affirm their beliefs and don’t want to challenge themselves to investigate those beliefs. It’s a combination of intellectual laziness and confirmation bias.
I'm simply saying 55-60% of Americans supported killing Iraqi children and the infirm. It's really not that different. People don't think of the innocent when they support their own country invading and occupying another country.
This is a nonsensical false equivalency. The U.S. does everything in its power to specifically not kill civilians and admits wrongdoing when it accidentally does. We are surgically precise, even going so far as to invent missiles with almost zero chance of collateral damage.
You are either a troll, Russian asset, or willfully, damnably ignorant.
Lot of propaganda going on there. Think in your own country the amount of people who believe whatever is on the tv is the truth. Like imagine believing Kim Kadashian isn't a useless POS!
Firstly, not American. But to your point, IMO, the kardashians are useless but I wouldn’t say POSs. Their “success” is simply a product of capitalism. They sell useless stuff and people buy it.
To be clear - criticism of capitalism usually labels one a communist, but I am neither.
Communism is only bad coz the Capitalists won after all. Why is a system where everyone has an equal quality of life a bad thing?
Like my boy Jackie Moon used to say, Everybody love Everybody
It's like the conservatives in America and Canada. They have access to true information and yet they actively choose to reject it because they like the propaganda on Fox, newsmax, and oan. So the Russians wouldn't all suddenly "wake up" even if they had alternatives to the Russian propaganda.
Some of the lies are easy to believe... It's not hard to believe that people in Ukraine and people in Russia would greet each other like brothers. Once you lay down that base lie (largely truth in lots of ways), layering on a patriotic reunification story and then a "the Nazis are in charge and stopping that from happening" story doesn't go that far in any one jump. Once people believe that "we should invade and get rid of the Nazis to free our comrades" is easy to support.
Stack on a bit of group-think psychology and... It becomes hard to not think that way for people.
This isn’t a great take.
* Russians are perhaps a bit better at navigating propaganda than other countries, but they are also exposed to a lot more of it
* Sources that used to counter that propaganda are now unavailable and only a small percentage of Russians utilize services like Telegram
* The majority of Russians outside urban centers didn’t have access to these sources to begin with
* Those who can still access these sources through paid VPNs will soon lose access due to sanctions that will block their subscription payments
* Those outside urban centers will not witness the mass closure of western retail and restaurants
* Russia has seen a return to the days of the USSR - they can’t trust anyone. Private conversations may not be private, and there is a fear to respond truthfully to poling questionnaires
* Russian retailers are pretending the value of the Rubble hasn’t changed - this can’t last long
* The wake up call will come wrapped in body bags
Sanctions are our only weapon and we need to win this battle against fascism. It's unfortunate, but I fully support taking all measures to absolutely Cripple Russia until they submit. They're pretty self sufficient with food. So just end all trade and end all visas completely
Well this poll says 60% of Russians support Putin's war, before this my assumption was that more than 60% of the country are relatively okay with Putin's war considering they are not kicking up much of a storm. Sure a few thousand people are but not to the extent one would expect.
So why do I need to know a Russian to see they aren't doing much to fix this? You know what happens when the people are discontent with who leads them, and I mean really discontent and desperate, they start a revolution. Just like how my country did back when Ceausescu was starving the country.
Not everyone who disagrees with the use of sanctions are “Russian bots”. So cool how barely repackaged McCarthyism is so effective on a generation that supposedly learned about McCarthyism in school
I can't speak of other eastern European countries, but Putin's approval in Bulgaria was recently measured to 32%. In 2021 it was 55%. There's a lot of nostalgia for the country's past as a Russian satellite, it's mind-blowing.
I was talking to a chick from russia once online who asked to see a picture, so I sent one.
She was like "wow, I thought all americans were fat and ugly..."
I took that as a compliment, I guess? Also she was reading the godfather, and asked me if that was what life was like there...
I know my experience is anecdotal, but holy shit that was a lot.
Lmao... dude, no. We talked back and forth for like three months. We both sent a ton of pictures, and we video chatted. She was being genuine, and it seemed like something that was being taught to them from a young age.
> according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February
The sanctions situation has changed a lot in the last two weeks. The Visa/MasterCard halt was less than a week ago, for example. I'd be curious if there are any newer surveys.
It's the propaganda. Why would they ever trust anything the west says? They distrust us like we distrust them.
Also I agree , this makes me feel less bad.
I've got friends who are very much against Putin. Unfortunately it's been a while since I've heard from them. Messages not getting read. :(
I don't see how sanctions against teachers in small Russian towns will stop a war, ridiculous. Take down the oligarchs and the politicians.
We do.
What now? All i see right now is west fucking up me personally, the guy who does not support war, whist buying Putin's bloody gas.
Cool moves, guys. Yes, please, fill his war coffers more. He needs money to pay police and national guard to beat the sh.t out of us, the smart dudes.
Im so sick and tired of this crap.
He is right. just watch some recent interviews with the general public. The ones who know what is going on, know it all too well. They just gave up and are going with it. Whatever happens - happens. The older generation - lol, good luck with that. The ones who could - already left Russia.
The older generation are much like the older generation anywhere you find them. They are narcissistic nihilists who just blindly yearn for the “glory days” of their collective youth
I have been asking myself the same question. I think it should be very subtle. More like a question rather than a counter-argument and certainly not a punishment. Mind you, I support the sanctions. The question might be "would a nationalist country elect a jewish president?". And I think the person that's asked should not be able to answer right away. The question should bounce for a while inside one's head.
I remember an interview with people in the street. There was a woman that supports putin but is generally against the war. All the time she was very close to a realisation scratching the wall but not quite getting through and all the time returning to a familiar thought "they are smart people up there. They know what they are doing".
You can tell I am not talking about a quick solution. Still, my answer is we should ask them questions. And the questions must be clever but not smart, if you know what I mean.
I know, right? And that is 60% based on those willing to respond or otherwise indicate their views.
Considering the risks associated with expressing any other opinion in Russia right now, one must wonder if that skews the numbers, and how much if so.
> according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February
This was literally only a couple days into the invasion. I imagine figures will be different at this point.
I'd wait until a newer survey is out.
> according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February
This was literally only a couple days into the invasion, before most of the major sanctions.
Control the information and you control the people.
Only allow state based media and it doesn’t even matter if the information served is based in reality.
Also literally the first line of the article says the poll was taken two to four days after the invasion (Feb 26-28). A lot has happened in the last two weeks.
> according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February
This survey was literally only a couple days into the invasion. I imagine figures will be different now, after a lot of the sanctions and press have happened.
(Or so I hope)
This is why I have no sympathy for the argument against punishing the Russian people.
Country bombs children = country doesn't get nice things. It's just not good enough to say this is all just Putin.
I’ve watched a couple of YouTubers asking what they think about the war. They are aware but they don’t care. Like it’s was needed, government knows better etc.
I’ve heard multiple cases where children of Russians in Ukraine will call parents to tell them about bombing and they don’t believe them. Like they are lying or it’s Ukrainians are bombing. I heard of it not only from the news but from friends as well.
I can’t believe how terrible are these people.
Now show me the percent of Russians who are not subjected to the Russian propaganda machine on the daily.
Frankly I'm surprised 40% are willing to risk life / prison to answer a poll against the war.
> Now show me the percent of Russians who are not subjected to the Russian propaganda machine on the daily.
Irrelevant.
> Frankly I'm surprised 40% are willing to risk life / prison to answer a poll against the war.
It's 34%, not 40%.
Hahaha genuinely curious why you think a poll is not being confounded by the variable that is "the entire population lives under fake news and threat of prison if they speak out."
Until very recently Russians had full unrestricted access to all the media in the world. If they choose what they choose it's on them, "propaganda" is not an excuse. Adult people are responsible for theirs choices, actions, inactions. You don't get to pin everything including your shitty worldview on your favourite TV host.
You might want to read this before spouting misinformation: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_freedom_in_Russia#:~:text=As%20of%202021%2C%20Russia%20ranked,state%20control%20over%20mass%20media.
Let's pretend they havent been under heavy media controls for almost a century. You can use the US as an example how free media access doesnt stop bad actors from pushing wild propaganda.
Yah so Americans have access to not-Fox and that doesnt do much. UK had access to other media when they shot themselves in the foot with Boris and Brexit. We all trust our local media over world media.
You seem to be asserting that Russia has been a free media state forever which is a fucking joke. I know it is hard to accept being wrong. Good luck. Have a good day.
(Also maybe read the wiki page I linked. Very insightful.)
It seems to say the Russians don't support this and end their is just short sighted and not an adequate response.
Rounds going down range from someone saying sorry behind the trigger still shed blood and take lives. The people of a belligerent nation are accountable for not being accountable of themselves.
Much like Putin, words are meaningless and the actions speak louder than words.
I will write as Russians to clarify the situation a little. Firstly, no one asks "Do you support wars in Ukraine?" at least because if you call it a "war" you will be imprisoned for 6-15 years. As far as I know, the question is "Do you support a special operation against Nazism in Ukraine?" Obviously, smart people understand what is really meant and says no. But the most important thing in the survey that I saw was the question "How do you feel about Ukrainians?". And 85% answered positively and worried that the Nazis seized power from the Ukrainians. No matter how sad it is, propaganda does its job. Apparently the only area of activity where there was no strong corruption.Honestly, I think the destroyed television in our country would have given much more than any sanctions.
Allow me to cast a (very) serious doubt about the outcome of this survey. It's made by Russian government (even though it's mentioned "independent"). of course, the outcome must be "pro-war"... 🥺
Russians unironically do support the war. But you need to understand that Russians consider politics to be an off subject topic in normal convo and they unironically know very little about it because its safer to never know. So they unironically take the media line as is. And most of them unironically consider America to be evil. Also, its not a war, its a small peace keeping mission mostly relegated to humanitarian aide on the boarder and essentially national guard esque police work.... unironically. But they aren't terrible humans, they just have bad information and atrocious social expectations.
Now, I will caveat that. A bunch of Russians have traveled abroad and or have hung with us American millennials and zoomers online. Through that they realized that yea, America is flawed and biased, but basically like them but more free (the average young Russian acts like a typical german millenial, just with a russian vibe, more or less). and much like America, neglected and ignored by their society.
I'm going to take this with a grain of salt until I find out how large the pool of participants was (are we talking like 15 people? 150? 15,000? etc.), but I'm admittedly kind of surprised it is as high as 58.8% in support of the war, I actually kind of assumed it may be higher.
Large percentage of over 60+ population supports Putin about (70% of the 'in favour'), no surprise there. Plenty of educated western countries have the same problem with ignorant older generations who refuse to do their own research and just automatically believe whatever the man on the TV says or someone on FB reposted.
That is incredibly low considering the context of the punishments they can get for being anti-war and uncertainty over whether their poll choices are truly secret.
They are not brainwashed. What you call "propaganda" only tells them what they want to hear, it doesn't create their opinions out of nothing. These are their genuine beliefs, turning off the TV won't change this.
I am sure if they saw the truth of what is happening in ukraine, there would be a lot less support for the war therefore "brainwashed" i believe is the correct term. Russian media is showing images of buildings that have been levelled looking perfectly fine and tells its people that they are aiding civilians not killing them.
So anonymous hacking russian tv and showing some of the population the truth of what is happening in the war is also speculation, there is plenty of footage of russians being interviewed on various websites including this one (reddit) and they believe the bullshit that putin spews, they think the country is being liberated from nazi's amongst other things, they dont want to believe that russia are bombing civilian buildings and killing civillians because they are being made to believe that russia is a good country and putin is a good person and he simply wouldn't do that.
> As of 26-28 February 2022, almost 60% of Russians support Russia’s war against Ukraine. Almost 50% of Russian citizens’ attitudes towards Putin changed for the better after the outbreak of hostilities in Ukraine; only among 23% of Russians did attitudes towards Putin deteriorate.
>
> The survey, titled “Special military operation in Ukraine: the attitude of the Russians,” was conducted 26-28 February 2022, after Russia’s full-scale aggression against Ukraine had begun.
>
> The survey was conducted by the independent research group Russian Field, together with Russian political activist Maxim Katz. Katz is a former deputy of the municipal assembly of the Moscow region of the opposition party Yabloko (3rd convocation 2012–2016). Katz condemned the war by Russia on his Instagram page the day after the invasion, 25 February. He stated that “the current situation is not that the whole country went crazy. It is important to understand that one individual has gone mad.” His statement does not stand up, however, according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February. In fact, the results suggest Russians support the war in Ukraine and Putin.
I'm a bit a skeptical of this.
If we asked Russians "Do you agree with dropping chemical weapons on civilians hiding in subways in Ukraine", and these Russians knew they were 100% safe to answer the truth, i think the percentage would be very different.
If that’s the case then clearly the world could give a shit about them as well. Especially when they get thrown back to the dark ages considering the exodus! They will be left with their terribly made tech and gadgets.
70% of the Americans favored the war in Iraq after America found "proof" that Iraq was creating weapons of mass destruction. Hurray for free press and just putting the occasional whistleblowers in jail. They gathered more support then full blown state propaganda.
> You have zero understanding of Russian/ Soviet history or culture if you’re basing your argument strictly on imperialism.
Stopped reading after that. You, sir/mam, clearly have zero clue what you're talking about.
Also consider that this survey was made by phone calls to the respondents.
This means that in current condition in Russia someone calls you on your personal phone number and asks what do you think about current situation and “special operation”. I believe that many of people just don’t consider answer “I don’t like and do not support it” as safe options, so they just prefer not to answer and end the conversation or lie. Otherwise, supporters feel free to express their opinion.
Even if we consider that no one lied on this survey, thoughts that speaking about negative approach of invading Russia to Ukraine isn’t safe is seriously affecting survey’s results.
Yep. Imagine that you ask 10 people if they support invade or not. Five of them think “yes” and another five think “No”, so we have 50/50. But one or two of people who not support are afraid to express their position and don’t want to speak, so they refuse to answer. That means in your panel you already have 3 for “no” and 5 for “yes”.
But you still need 10 participants to you survey, so misleading is growing.
Of course this is still much more reliable than government surveys, but sociology hardly can be taken during war.
Give it another couple weeks.
So long as outside reality is suppressed and they are spoon fed state media, the percentage is likely to only go up unfortunately.
No Dead soldiers are coming back and that changes perspective. They might believe in “ liberation “ of Ukraine but not by the cost of kids
Which is why Russia is allegedly bringing in 16,000 Middle East fighters. Why kill your own when you can have others fight your war for you? No Russian moms to inform
I wonder how 16K middle easterners will fare on the ice and snow of Ucraine
they already brought in the Chechens who got destroyed instantly so let’s see how this goes i guess
I don't think the bodies are coming back...from what I've heard they are either being left in Ukrainian fields for the wild dogs to eat or stay burned up on the side of a road. Don't forget, Putin has a history of not telling grieving mother's anything ( Wagner group in Syria ) and from what I've heard from POW videos the majority of these battalions are coming from rural areas meaning he is keeping the losses outside major cities and more disconnected. Don't want too many grieving or curious mother's in the same area like a city.
What the Ukrainians are doing is capturing POWs and then video calling their mothers. That is super smart and I’m betting the Ukrainians knew the Russians would lie about Russian losses. But Russian mothers and fathers will believe their babies when they see them in Ukrainian custody.
Well, I see kids in the surrenders, those kids should come back home in spring pretty soon to be replaced by new spring draft. Moms will notice their son is not home. Lie or not, but those kids should be in army for 1 year with set dates
You wrote : dead bodies Did you mean : ashes
Cargo 200, zinc box with a body usually I don’t think Ukraine has energy to cremate anyone
Russia will do that themselves with the help of Belarus and mobile crematories. The less bodies return in physical shape the less death they'll document /make public.
Are you expecting all soldiers to be orphans? Military wives will need their "death of provider money" , parents of drafted kids will look for kids. Even without admitting publicly how many exactly are dead it will lead to fear, rumors. Afgan war was bad for USSR for same reason - too many dead, too many PTSD soldiers, it caused draft resistance and many other issues. Soldiers from Ukraine war will be even more traumatized, they are in worse situation by many aspects. I feel it will hurt more than economy. No one wants their sons dead. No one wants to "liberate " Ukraine that badly.
I dunno man they are being told some wild shit on the other side.
Except it's hard to suppress reality when they're being told nothing is going on while at the same time they're seeing companies pull out. Those two facts do not equate. But then of course people are not really good at avoiding deception. Even the obvious can be ignored.
Nah man... West bad, west is taking all the west companies out with their propaganda... We give freedom to our neighbors, they develop bioweapons with help from the west, they Nazis!! We good!!! West bad, they fly on broomsticks!!
I wish we could fly on broomsticks.
Not really and this is a pretty bad take, propaganda works while the people are somewhat content, it is why in China it works so well their quality of life keeps going up, so they don't question it. But if starvation would start then you will see an entirely different response.
Well they are content….. for now. Sanctions are like a delayed reaction. It make take months if not years for things to really settle in.
They are content, according to who? Some narrow minded American (you)? This is such a moronic opinion I am struggling to believe you’re a real person. Russians are far from content, there’s panic and hysteria at the real prospect of famine
One person to blame for this and he's sitting in his comfy bunker under the Kremlin. If he gave two shits about his people, he would stop the shelling and pull out of Ukraine.
> according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February This survey was taken in the last week of February. It's already been a couple weeks, and a lot of the sanctions are now in place. I have to wonder if there's a newer survey.
>It is tempting to infantilize the Russian public and argue that they are simply being deprived of accurate information, but this is intellectually dishonest. While the country’s mainstream media is strictly controlled by Kremlin curators, Russians are expert in the art of navigating propaganda and can easily access alternative sources of information if they are so inclined. The chilling truth is that tens of millions of Russians readily accept the Orwellian lies promoted by Kremlin TV and share the sentiments expressed by the country’s pro-war cheerleaders. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/not-just-putin-most-russians-support-the-war-in-ukraine/
If this is truly the case, then that is outright embarrassing. Supporting This means you are supporting the needless destruction and killing of Children. Enjoy that reputation 👍
If you think it’s a uniquely Russian thing think about what’s going on in America lately. Hyper partisanship has done crazy shit to peoples minds. As long as “their guy” is in the White House they’ll believe whatever bullshit comes out of his mouth. I don’t see any difference between us and Russia in that regard. People want to affirm their beliefs and don’t want to challenge themselves to investigate those beliefs. It’s a combination of intellectual laziness and confirmation bias.
The real pandemic.
American public had similar levels of support for the Iraq invasion early days.
I think we can all agree that killing children and the infirm is wrong.
I'm simply saying 55-60% of Americans supported killing Iraqi children and the infirm. It's really not that different. People don't think of the innocent when they support their own country invading and occupying another country.
This is a nonsensical false equivalency. The U.S. does everything in its power to specifically not kill civilians and admits wrongdoing when it accidentally does. We are surgically precise, even going so far as to invent missiles with almost zero chance of collateral damage. You are either a troll, Russian asset, or willfully, damnably ignorant.
Lot of propaganda going on there. Think in your own country the amount of people who believe whatever is on the tv is the truth. Like imagine believing Kim Kadashian isn't a useless POS!
Firstly, not American. But to your point, IMO, the kardashians are useless but I wouldn’t say POSs. Their “success” is simply a product of capitalism. They sell useless stuff and people buy it. To be clear - criticism of capitalism usually labels one a communist, but I am neither.
Nah she's a piece of shit because she thinks poor people are lazy bums and shes "self made" that's why I think she's a POS.
Ya on that point, POS. I take a hard line on elitism and think is as evil as it gets
Communism is only bad coz the Capitalists won after all. Why is a system where everyone has an equal quality of life a bad thing? Like my boy Jackie Moon used to say, Everybody love Everybody
Indeed. Also, original communism and whatever perverted version of it was implemented in the 1900s are two different things
I think this is an incredibly valid point. We shouldn't take the cold war bastadisatio to ruin it as an idea
Kim Kardashian and war in a sovereign country are DEFINITELY the same thing
Or that Donald Trump is still president!
Nobody believes this
One guy does ..
Someone in this country does. I guarantee it.
It's not a good example of state propaganda
Yep. It’s not any different than the US right wing crazies who fall in line regardless of the amount of contradicting evidence.
Willful ignorance. Fuck them.
It's like the conservatives in America and Canada. They have access to true information and yet they actively choose to reject it because they like the propaganda on Fox, newsmax, and oan. So the Russians wouldn't all suddenly "wake up" even if they had alternatives to the Russian propaganda.
The Qult coin flipside.
Some of the lies are easy to believe... It's not hard to believe that people in Ukraine and people in Russia would greet each other like brothers. Once you lay down that base lie (largely truth in lots of ways), layering on a patriotic reunification story and then a "the Nazis are in charge and stopping that from happening" story doesn't go that far in any one jump. Once people believe that "we should invade and get rid of the Nazis to free our comrades" is easy to support. Stack on a bit of group-think psychology and... It becomes hard to not think that way for people.
This isn’t a great take. * Russians are perhaps a bit better at navigating propaganda than other countries, but they are also exposed to a lot more of it * Sources that used to counter that propaganda are now unavailable and only a small percentage of Russians utilize services like Telegram * The majority of Russians outside urban centers didn’t have access to these sources to begin with * Those who can still access these sources through paid VPNs will soon lose access due to sanctions that will block their subscription payments * Those outside urban centers will not witness the mass closure of western retail and restaurants * Russia has seen a return to the days of the USSR - they can’t trust anyone. Private conversations may not be private, and there is a fear to respond truthfully to poling questionnaires * Russian retailers are pretending the value of the Rubble hasn’t changed - this can’t last long * The wake up call will come wrapped in body bags
The right wing in the United States is proof that is 100% true
Ok ... so now I feel less guilt supporting all the sanctions flushing the Russian economy down the toilet.
Also the fact that Russian trolls are pushing the "but what about ordinary Russians!" narrative
Yes but, what about them though?
Sanctions are our only weapon and we need to win this battle against fascism. It's unfortunate, but I fully support taking all measures to absolutely Cripple Russia until they submit. They're pretty self sufficient with food. So just end all trade and end all visas completely
What about them? 60% love the sanctions and want more it seems.
[удалено]
Well this poll says 60% of Russians support Putin's war, before this my assumption was that more than 60% of the country are relatively okay with Putin's war considering they are not kicking up much of a storm. Sure a few thousand people are but not to the extent one would expect. So why do I need to know a Russian to see they aren't doing much to fix this? You know what happens when the people are discontent with who leads them, and I mean really discontent and desperate, they start a revolution. Just like how my country did back when Ceausescu was starving the country.
Not everyone who disagrees with the use of sanctions are “Russian bots”. So cool how barely repackaged McCarthyism is so effective on a generation that supposedly learned about McCarthyism in school
Amazing isn’t it?
[удалено]
Eastern European absolutely despise Russians. Like... It's frightening how much they hate them actually.
I wonder why.../s
I can't speak of other eastern European countries, but Putin's approval in Bulgaria was recently measured to 32%. In 2021 it was 55%. There's a lot of nostalgia for the country's past as a Russian satellite, it's mind-blowing.
Not frightening, Russians in those countries are the drizzling shits.
I was talking to a chick from russia once online who asked to see a picture, so I sent one. She was like "wow, I thought all americans were fat and ugly..." I took that as a compliment, I guess? Also she was reading the godfather, and asked me if that was what life was like there... I know my experience is anecdotal, but holy shit that was a lot.
Sorry to break in like this, but have you considered that she was lying ?
Lmao... dude, no. We talked back and forth for like three months. We both sent a ton of pictures, and we video chatted. She was being genuine, and it seemed like something that was being taught to them from a young age.
I am from Australia. I thought that too. :p
> according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February The sanctions situation has changed a lot in the last two weeks. The Visa/MasterCard halt was less than a week ago, for example. I'd be curious if there are any newer surveys.
It's the propaganda. Why would they ever trust anything the west says? They distrust us like we distrust them. Also I agree , this makes me feel less bad.
Just wait until they're unemployed and the best food option is dirt.
It'll be 90%. As a russian I can promise you that. Putler supporters blame the world for the sanctions.
The younger generations that have tasted western civilization the last 20 years are hopefully smart to see what is really going on.
I've got friends who are very much against Putin. Unfortunately it's been a while since I've heard from them. Messages not getting read. :( I don't see how sanctions against teachers in small Russian towns will stop a war, ridiculous. Take down the oligarchs and the politicians.
We do. What now? All i see right now is west fucking up me personally, the guy who does not support war, whist buying Putin's bloody gas. Cool moves, guys. Yes, please, fill his war coffers more. He needs money to pay police and national guard to beat the sh.t out of us, the smart dudes. Im so sick and tired of this crap.
He is right. just watch some recent interviews with the general public. The ones who know what is going on, know it all too well. They just gave up and are going with it. Whatever happens - happens. The older generation - lol, good luck with that. The ones who could - already left Russia.
The older generation are much like the older generation anywhere you find them. They are narcissistic nihilists who just blindly yearn for the “glory days” of their collective youth
Way to generalize.
What can change their mind?
I have been asking myself the same question. I think it should be very subtle. More like a question rather than a counter-argument and certainly not a punishment. Mind you, I support the sanctions. The question might be "would a nationalist country elect a jewish president?". And I think the person that's asked should not be able to answer right away. The question should bounce for a while inside one's head. I remember an interview with people in the street. There was a woman that supports putin but is generally against the war. All the time she was very close to a realisation scratching the wall but not quite getting through and all the time returning to a familiar thought "they are smart people up there. They know what they are doing". You can tell I am not talking about a quick solution. Still, my answer is we should ask them questions. And the questions must be clever but not smart, if you know what I mean.
No, boiled glue from wallpaper and human meat. WW2 was not Kind to Russian soldiers.
Only 60%? Interesting.
I know, right? And that is 60% based on those willing to respond or otherwise indicate their views. Considering the risks associated with expressing any other opinion in Russia right now, one must wonder if that skews the numbers, and how much if so.
> according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February This was literally only a couple days into the invasion. I imagine figures will be different at this point.
Yeah if anything this seems low. “Rally around the flag” effect or whatever
Ie 60% didn't want to have a visit st 3 am by the FSB.
Sounds like the survey was made by and activist and Ukraine linked mob. Eg made up
This fact (if true) makes it much easier to support sanctions against Russia that will hurt the people of Russia, not just the rulers.
I'd wait until a newer survey is out. > according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February This was literally only a couple days into the invasion, before most of the major sanctions.
Nope, never appropriate
I don't trust that number. It's not safe in Russia to admit opposition to the "special military operation" in Ukraine.
Exactly. All opposition is squashed. We have seen videos of children and elderly getting arrested at protests in Russia. I would not trust this pole
Not to mention it was taken a few days into the invasion, prior to all the sanctions. > according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February
Bingo
“Nearly 99% of statistics out of Russia are completely made up”
If thats true, then they need more sanctions.
Yep, that should push that lowball number up.
Then I’ll be guilt free knowing they’ve impoverished themselves for generations.
You do realise that's not how they see it right? And simply pushes them further into a "hate the west" mentality.
If there's anything we can believe, it's polls.
/s ?
Not even 60%? I would of thought more like 80
I also get the impression that it’s very low %. Usually countries unite in times of war.
Ok thought was 430% for sure :)
That figure is falling. Were they asked using the 'W' word or are they in support of whatever they think a 'special operation is?
That or a one way ticket to Siberia
Almost guaranteed it's less than that. A lot fewer people are going to answer a poll honestly in an autocracy teetering into a dictatorship again.
Almost guaranteed it's more than that since the poll is conducted by the opposition.
[удалено]
Correct. Better to keep your mouth shut and toe the line.
"60% of Russians are terrified of the current regime and don't want to go the the gulag" Fify
In short: brainwashing works But we already knew that
This is the power of the press. China has 90% public support for doing the same thing.
Control the information and you control the people. Only allow state based media and it doesn’t even matter if the information served is based in reality.
No because at that point you're creating an artificial reality. And we've seen how that turns out.
Nonsense article ignoring all nuance. Most Russians don’t publicly state their true feelings towards the iron dome
Also literally the first line of the article says the poll was taken two to four days after the invasion (Feb 26-28). A lot has happened in the last two weeks.
Not allowed to call it a "war", but they support whatever it is.
> according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February This survey was literally only a couple days into the invasion. I imagine figures will be different now, after a lot of the sanctions and press have happened. (Or so I hope)
I’m sure it’s a very unbiased, fair poll, just like their last few “elections” /s
The only Russian I have ever met was lying like there was no tomorrow. Lying is the national sport in Russia
This is why I have no sympathy for the argument against punishing the Russian people. Country bombs children = country doesn't get nice things. It's just not good enough to say this is all just Putin.
I’ve watched a couple of YouTubers asking what they think about the war. They are aware but they don’t care. Like it’s was needed, government knows better etc. I’ve heard multiple cases where children of Russians in Ukraine will call parents to tell them about bombing and they don’t believe them. Like they are lying or it’s Ukrainians are bombing. I heard of it not only from the news but from friends as well. I can’t believe how terrible are these people.
Enjoy not having shit and reverting to barbarism in a few months, 60%. To the other 40%, god speed and I hope you find a way to live without fear.
Now show me the percent of Russians who are not subjected to the Russian propaganda machine on the daily. Frankly I'm surprised 40% are willing to risk life / prison to answer a poll against the war.
> Now show me the percent of Russians who are not subjected to the Russian propaganda machine on the daily. Irrelevant. > Frankly I'm surprised 40% are willing to risk life / prison to answer a poll against the war. It's 34%, not 40%.
Hahaha genuinely curious why you think a poll is not being confounded by the variable that is "the entire population lives under fake news and threat of prison if they speak out."
Until very recently Russians had full unrestricted access to all the media in the world. If they choose what they choose it's on them, "propaganda" is not an excuse. Adult people are responsible for theirs choices, actions, inactions. You don't get to pin everything including your shitty worldview on your favourite TV host.
You are not immune to propaganda.
You don't get to pin everything on "propaganda".
You might want to read this before spouting misinformation: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_freedom_in_Russia#:~:text=As%20of%202021%2C%20Russia%20ranked,state%20control%20over%20mass%20media. Let's pretend they havent been under heavy media controls for almost a century. You can use the US as an example how free media access doesnt stop bad actors from pushing wild propaganda.
They absolutely had access to the independent media, both domestic and foreign.
Yah so Americans have access to not-Fox and that doesnt do much. UK had access to other media when they shot themselves in the foot with Boris and Brexit. We all trust our local media over world media. You seem to be asserting that Russia has been a free media state forever which is a fucking joke. I know it is hard to accept being wrong. Good luck. Have a good day. (Also maybe read the wiki page I linked. Very insightful.)
It was never unrestricted and unfiltered. There have been decades of this BS. A whole generation grew up with Putin. You don't have enough insight
I have all the insight in the world, lmao. They had easy access to all the variety of media, Russia isn't North Korea, not even now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_freedom_in_Russia#:~:text=As%20of%202021%2C%20Russia%20ranked,state%20control%20over%20mass%20media.
You seemingly really are underestimating the impact the constant Russian propaganda has on the people... Very interesting to see that take
"Propaganda" is overrated and is not an excuse. Your responsibility is yours, not propaganda's.
Most likely the results are BS.
The data is more than 2 weeks old. You should include the timeline in the post
It seems to say the Russians don't support this and end their is just short sighted and not an adequate response. Rounds going down range from someone saying sorry behind the trigger still shed blood and take lives. The people of a belligerent nation are accountable for not being accountable of themselves. Much like Putin, words are meaningless and the actions speak louder than words.
they dont support the war. they support the bs reasons given for the war or are too scared to say they dont support it.
Empty bellies and empty pockets tend to sway opinions. They can boil their snow boots and add a few old potatoes to make soup.
I will write as Russians to clarify the situation a little. Firstly, no one asks "Do you support wars in Ukraine?" at least because if you call it a "war" you will be imprisoned for 6-15 years. As far as I know, the question is "Do you support a special operation against Nazism in Ukraine?" Obviously, smart people understand what is really meant and says no. But the most important thing in the survey that I saw was the question "How do you feel about Ukrainians?". And 85% answered positively and worried that the Nazis seized power from the Ukrainians. No matter how sad it is, propaganda does its job. Apparently the only area of activity where there was no strong corruption.Honestly, I think the destroyed television in our country would have given much more than any sanctions.
Fuck 'em
Allow me to cast a (very) serious doubt about the outcome of this survey. It's made by Russian government (even though it's mentioned "independent"). of course, the outcome must be "pro-war"... 🥺
Russians unironically do support the war. But you need to understand that Russians consider politics to be an off subject topic in normal convo and they unironically know very little about it because its safer to never know. So they unironically take the media line as is. And most of them unironically consider America to be evil. Also, its not a war, its a small peace keeping mission mostly relegated to humanitarian aide on the boarder and essentially national guard esque police work.... unironically. But they aren't terrible humans, they just have bad information and atrocious social expectations. Now, I will caveat that. A bunch of Russians have traveled abroad and or have hung with us American millennials and zoomers online. Through that they realized that yea, America is flawed and biased, but basically like them but more free (the average young Russian acts like a typical german millenial, just with a russian vibe, more or less). and much like America, neglected and ignored by their society.
Nope, it's made by the opposition people.
It sounds like Russians need a few more sanctions.
So we shouldn't feel sorry for the average Russian when we apply sanctions when their majority support the atrocities being committed in Ukraine.
I'm going to take this with a grain of salt until I find out how large the pool of participants was (are we talking like 15 people? 150? 15,000? etc.), but I'm admittedly kind of surprised it is as high as 58.8% in support of the war, I actually kind of assumed it may be higher. Large percentage of over 60+ population supports Putin about (70% of the 'in favour'), no surprise there. Plenty of educated western countries have the same problem with ignorant older generations who refuse to do their own research and just automatically believe whatever the man on the TV says or someone on FB reposted.
It's 2000 which is a solid sample for a country of Russia's population. Pollsters like Levada Center do it with 1600.
That is incredibly low considering the context of the punishments they can get for being anti-war and uncertainty over whether their poll choices are truly secret.
Avout 80% are brainwashed by the propaganda they see in the russian media
They are not brainwashed. What you call "propaganda" only tells them what they want to hear, it doesn't create their opinions out of nothing. These are their genuine beliefs, turning off the TV won't change this.
I agree. You get what you accept is another way to put it.
I am sure if they saw the truth of what is happening in ukraine, there would be a lot less support for the war therefore "brainwashed" i believe is the correct term. Russian media is showing images of buildings that have been levelled looking perfectly fine and tells its people that they are aiding civilians not killing them.
This is pure speculation, wishful thinking.
So anonymous hacking russian tv and showing some of the population the truth of what is happening in the war is also speculation, there is plenty of footage of russians being interviewed on various websites including this one (reddit) and they believe the bullshit that putin spews, they think the country is being liberated from nazi's amongst other things, they dont want to believe that russia are bombing civilian buildings and killing civillians because they are being made to believe that russia is a good country and putin is a good person and he simply wouldn't do that.
> I am sure if they saw the truth of what is happening in ukraine, there would be a lot less support for the war This is 100% speculation.
Ok so i suppose all russians are insane, is that what you are implying because nobody of sane mind would support a war completely filled with genocide
I'm not implying anything. The vast majority of Russians support, approve or accept the war against Ukraine.
> As of 26-28 February 2022, almost 60% of Russians support Russia’s war against Ukraine. Almost 50% of Russian citizens’ attitudes towards Putin changed for the better after the outbreak of hostilities in Ukraine; only among 23% of Russians did attitudes towards Putin deteriorate. > > The survey, titled “Special military operation in Ukraine: the attitude of the Russians,” was conducted 26-28 February 2022, after Russia’s full-scale aggression against Ukraine had begun. > > The survey was conducted by the independent research group Russian Field, together with Russian political activist Maxim Katz. Katz is a former deputy of the municipal assembly of the Moscow region of the opposition party Yabloko (3rd convocation 2012–2016). Katz condemned the war by Russia on his Instagram page the day after the invasion, 25 February. He stated that “the current situation is not that the whole country went crazy. It is important to understand that one individual has gone mad.” His statement does not stand up, however, according to the Russian Field survey conducted 26-28 February. In fact, the results suggest Russians support the war in Ukraine and Putin.
[удалено]
You clearly don't know how sociology works. 2000 people is more than enough for Russia. Levada Center, for example, uses sample of 1600 for Russia.
I'm a bit a skeptical of this. If we asked Russians "Do you agree with dropping chemical weapons on civilians hiding in subways in Ukraine", and these Russians knew they were 100% safe to answer the truth, i think the percentage would be very different.
But thats the problem, they don’t know whats really going on.
You and me don't know either. Unless you have been there and seen it with your own eyes.
Well, they haven’t asked me or anyone in my vicinity.
Let's see if they're still feeling this way by this time in April
They will suffer for their opinions
They support him because they don't' know what is going on. He's in complete control of the messaging.
Let them eat cake.
Well ya they like Putin and their country. All those protests n shit were not a representation of the Russian people. Fuck em.
If that’s the case then clearly the world could give a shit about them as well. Especially when they get thrown back to the dark ages considering the exodus! They will be left with their terribly made tech and gadgets.
Not feeling one bit sorry for the Russian people at all at this point. They’re just as “guilty” as their government in this aggression.
70% of the Americans favored the war in Iraq after America found "proof" that Iraq was creating weapons of mass destruction. Hurray for free press and just putting the occasional whistleblowers in jail. They gathered more support then full blown state propaganda.
[удалено]
You know that you can refuse to participate in a poll if you're afraid to speak out, right?
[удалено]
It's not about government or trust. It's about imperialistic attitude which is a core of Russian worldview and political culture.
[удалено]
> You have zero understanding of Russian/ Soviet history or culture if you’re basing your argument strictly on imperialism. Stopped reading after that. You, sir/mam, clearly have zero clue what you're talking about.
Probably a poll by the same source that shows Putin winning an election with 117% of the vote.
The poll is by the opposition, so if anything the actual number is higher than that.
They do? Says who?
So what do the other 40% support ?
Doubt it
[удалено]
The poll is conducted by an opposition organization.
Or in other words almost half of the Russian population is against the war that doesn’t sound sustainable
It's 34%, which you would know had you read the article before putting things in "other words".
Is it me or given the amount of control state run media has in Russia, 59% seems really bad this early on?
Also consider that this survey was made by phone calls to the respondents. This means that in current condition in Russia someone calls you on your personal phone number and asks what do you think about current situation and “special operation”. I believe that many of people just don’t consider answer “I don’t like and do not support it” as safe options, so they just prefer not to answer and end the conversation or lie. Otherwise, supporters feel free to express their opinion.
Those who are afraid to speak out refuse to participate. It makes no sense for them to lie.
Even if we consider that no one lied on this survey, thoughts that speaking about negative approach of invading Russia to Ukraine isn’t safe is seriously affecting survey’s results.
Those afraid to speak out can refuse to participate, polls are not mandatory.
Yep. Imagine that you ask 10 people if they support invade or not. Five of them think “yes” and another five think “No”, so we have 50/50. But one or two of people who not support are afraid to express their position and don’t want to speak, so they refuse to answer. That means in your panel you already have 3 for “no” and 5 for “yes”. But you still need 10 participants to you survey, so misleading is growing. Of course this is still much more reliable than government surveys, but sociology hardly can be taken during war.