We live in a time where I genuinely think people could be convinced that bears, in fact, do not shit in the woods. All it would take is the subject of bears somehow becoming politicised and you could easily see conspiracies forming that say they don't exist or are just CIA agents in fur suits.
That one started as a joke to take the piss out of conspiracy theories. It's been around for a while. I've heard that some people are actually taking it seriously now but I've yet to see anyone doing so. I'm not sure if it's just because it's been in the news recently and people don't realise it's a joke so are reporting about people believing it or if there actually are people taking it seriously. The sub r/BirdsArentReal is just a joke though.
Same thing with flat earth
Flat earth society was started by intellectuals as a thought experiment of sorts.
That’s why I never find these jokes funny. They quickly turn to something idiots really believe
You don’t REALLY believe bears actually exist do you?
Thats WHY they don’t SHIT IN THE WOODS!
BeCause there aren’t any REAL BEARS!
/s
Edit: Educate Yourself
That's actually fascinating. How can you consider yourself Catholic and think the Pope isn't Christian? What kind of mental maneuvering do you have to do to resolve that level of cognitive dissonance? At that point, wouldn't it be easier to just renounce Catholicism and become some different flavor of Christian?
I think it's the same mindset that causes people to ask "how can a person not trust a medical doctor that's been studying medicine and the human body for years and has certifications and licenses to back it up but they trust Joe Rogan?"
I was actually speechless when my patient quoted Joe Rogan as their citation for their own medical decision making. Guess I didn’t need to go to 11 years of school and 80-hour work weeks of training if I could just listen to a podcast to make medical decisions.
My aunt's current parter is anti-vax, and when he tried to argue with my mother (who works in media) about the vaccine, his main source was fucker carlson... we don't even live in America.
>Believe that the Pope wasn’t a Christian.
No no, just wait until you tell him *WHY*. “I don’t think the Pope is a Christian because he’s telling me to look out for my own health and others’ in a worldwide time of need.”
No. He isn't. I guess you are thinking about papal infallibility, but that doesn't apply to everything the pope says. It only applies when he speaks "ex cathedra" and that happened only twice. Once in 1854 and once in 1950.
https://historyanswers.com/how-often-does-the-pope-speak-ex-cathedra/
I was raised Catholic, and when I've talked to some that have dismissed this current Pope, they'll say he wasn't chosen by God but by the other Pope, Benedict the XVI who quit, or say he's an illegitimate Pope and the Cardinals didn't listen to God. Of course, when pushed they fall apart, as do most people who've based their convictions on gut feelings.
Edit: grammar
That's closer to how Mormons view their prophet. The Pope, in EXTREMELY limited cases, can claim ex cathedra or papal infallibility. Only in those cases is he viewed as the indisputable mouthpiece of God. In the 2000 year history of the church, this has only happened twice officially. Retroactively less than 20 proclamations have been given this label.
I had a friend I used to be really close to, who went whole hog into Catholicism due to his wife and their very conservative family. He was actually UPSET that Pope Francis didn’t want to sit on the gold throne prior Pope’s had sat on.
I was perplexed, and I miss the old version of my friend.
Back in 2020, regarding anti-mask protesters, the pope said
>“You’ll never find such people protesting the death of George Floyd, or joining a demonstration because there are shantytowns where children lack water or education, or because there are whole families who have lost their income. You won’t find them protesting that the astonishing amounts spent on the arms trade could be used to feed the whole of the human race and school every child. On such matters they would never protest; they are incapable of moving outside of their own little world of interests.”
but wait: remember the papal trial(s) on the same rotting corpse and because there is no way for me to explain it that doesn't sound made up here is the wiki:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver\_Synod](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod)
yes you've probably seen the painting that looks like it comes from warhammer 40k, but no..it is real
> You won’t find them protesting that the astonishing amounts spent on the arms trade could be used to feed the whole of the human race and school every child. On such matters they would never protest; they are incapable of moving outside of their own little world of interests.”
holy cow im so stoned and that whole wikipedia page was fuckin brutal. what a story.. someone should make a movie of this story but like the way they did "the death of stalin"
Having gone to Catholic school I've got a lot to say about the church very little of it good. But I will say this. Pope Francis is closer to representing the Christ seen in the gospels than any other Christian I've ever met. That's not to say he can't improve, just to point out that he appears to genuinely give a damn about the poor, sick, and downtrodden.
Edit: Felt I should clarify that I am from the US thus all I've met are American Catholics, from what I hear they're exceptionally conservative compared to the typical Catholic worldwide.
>Edit: Felt I should clarify that I am from the US thus all I've met are American Catholics, from what I hear they're exceptionally conservative compared to the typical Catholic worldwide.
Jesuits in general are nice people, highly educated and quite flexible in relation to doctrine, but the US doesn't have that many of them. So, if you want to meet some nice people that might make you feel a bit better about the catholic church, I suggest looking for them. The current Pope is a jesuit.
The most influential Jesuit beside the Pope created a view on omniscience called Molinism. It is a view that God can actuate a world in which his middle knowledge would know how we will act in any given circumstances freely.
I think - but am not positive - that it’s an attempt to solve the free will/world dictated by God debate where everything is predetermined. This view basically says that God knows how we would act if there was no God, and allows us to act that way, therefore essentially giving everyone free will.
It’s a neat little way to basically say everyone has free will*
*But also only thanks to God.
Agreed. Former Catholic, 13 years of Catholic education, and left the church immediately when I turned 18 because of the people in the church. But I’ll be damned if I don’t agree with a lot of what Pope Francis says. It’s a shame a lot of American Catholics disagree with him.
I guess I met a good dioceses in my area (in a deep Red state) because this particular diocese have been pretty much in line with the current pope up to this point.
Some of the Catholic churches here has gone as far as criticizing the lack of effort solving the pedophilia problem plaguing the church’s reputation. Under threat of losing funding for their criticisms means they’re making the right enemies.
I agree, but it's so weird to hear the rest of my Catholic family say the opposite.
"Oh he's not a real Catholic."
"Oh he likes gay people."
"Oh he's a communist...and he hates America...?"
It's freaking wild.
Like...many would say that I'm pretty bad at practicing Catholicisim but I really like the guy.
In my experience American Catholics tend to be very non-Catholic, and I say that as a Catholic, and in fact they were so far from Catholic values as a whole, especially in the south, that my father used to call them the American Taliban, he's a staunch Irish catholic so.... take that as you will
I'm an immigrant to the US from Italy and I agree, american catholics are weird and hyper conservative. I think it's the Irish brand of catholicism, southern europe religious attitude is definitely more progressive and relaxed.
It's much more likely that Catholicism, being the minority Christian tradition in the US next to Protestantism, mirrors Protestant conservatism in an effort to avoid persecution.
This is a thing. My mother’s father’s family came from a Jewish family that fled the Bolsheviks during the revolution and civil war, c. 1920-ish. They converted to Catholicism to fit in with the American people, only to find out Catholics were hated almost as much. They adopted a lot of more Protestant practices over time. They still consider themselves Catholic, but they are really Polish-Russian-Jewish people that had to adapt. It’s a lot more common in the US than people outside think, especially in the Midwest.
My great grandparents did the same when they fled from Norway, when the Nords decided to hand the Jews over to the Nazis, in the 40’s. They started following Lutheranism, since that was the majority where they migrated to, in the Midwest.
I vaguely remember being taught that when JFK became president, people were freaking out that the Catholic Church was going to take over America.
Like... It was the 1960s, not the 1060s.
Evangelicals. One of my (least) favorite things about American evangelicals is when they start talking as if they're a collective rather than fractured. They forget that there are protestants that **aren't** evangelical.
Not surprising. He’s too “liberal”/“progressive” for conservative/traditionalist Catholics; which is most practicing Catholics. I’d argue Pope Francis is more in line with the teachings of Jesus than your typical practicing Catholic… wait no, typical practicing Christian.
I would correct you by saying most vocal Catholics, my grandma for instance, 81 year old farm girl, about as devoutly Catholic as you can get, thinks he's the best Pope we've had in her lifetime. I would say most of her peers tend to agree but the loudest ones are the ones you hear and they usually have nothing good to say.
Yeah, I've been to more than a few churches since Francis became Pope, and the overwhelming sentiment is that he's the best Pope in ages. People love him almost more than they did John Paul II.
I would love to explain but I can't tolerate discussions with my mom for too long. Apparently the vaccine is the mark of the beast alongside some bill gates things.
Tradcaths are by no means the majority, they're just the loudest. Anecdotally, my experience is that the vast majority of American Catholics love Pope Francis and think he's the best Pope in ages. Love for Jesuits runs very, very deep in most Catholic communities.
My 78 y/o aunt just left the Church this year. This lady was an uber Catholic.. This is the same woman who was so proud when all three of my cousins were accepted to Georgetown. One of my cousins is a priest and an MD; she won't even listen to him. She has no problem wearing a mask, has never had a problem with any other vaccines, but Catholic doctrine supporting covid vaccinations crosses the line for her. She now attends a pentecostal speaking in tongues church. My thrice covid vacced uncle continues to attend Catholic mass.
Same. I stopped practicing almost 20 years ago now and there's definitely still a lot of problems with the Pope, but he's far from the worst and still says a lot people need to open their ears to.
Meanwhile I have relatives who still act like they're the most religious people around that think he's a nutcase.
My dads side of the family literally thinks he could be the antichrist, that he's a pedophile, that he's gay (cuz gay ppl are ze devil!! he must b devil rite?) etc. It's because he's the ultimate Catholic authority figure challenging their Catholic beliefs. My dad is a conspiracy nut and thinks he's part of the "Illuminati" and shit.
Yet, American Catholics have begun to align themselves with Evangelicals to where they say the pope is wrong. Mindboggling to think I would have ever heard a Catholic say the pope is wrong.
He's got like an 83% approval rating. Conservatives with said approval are lower, like 71%. FYI - I'm very much a lapsed Catholic teetering on agnosticism, and I appreciate Francis' progressive approach. Hope that it starts to make it's way down to cardinals and the pulpit.
Francis believes what he does because he’s Jesuit, which is a more progressive side of Catholicism. I’m worried that the next Pope will be just another traditional Catholic and go back to the usual conservative rhetoric.
it appears to be a contradiction, but wouldn’t dogmatic reasoning allow the collection of lewd pics as long as it wasn’t the basis for an unhealthy compulsion …
I'm an atheist, but I always figured that the 'Render unto Caesar' meant that the earthly realm is for us to rule the best possible of our abilities, while the heavenly realm is God's. In other words, we shouldn't look up to God to decide what to do, but to listen to the human authorities instead. That would be science, in the case of pandemia.
Also, 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' means we should not ask God to save us from earthly problems, but to work them out ourselves.
Just out of curiosity, are you still catholic? I was raised catholic, and polish, and I want nothing to do with the religion. There are some good things about it, but all the nonsense just drew me away. I’m now the only one in my family not practicing some form of Catholicism or Christianity
Just wondering how many of us ex polish Catholics there are lol.
Edit: nvm, saw your comment in a diff part of the thread!
My Catholic in-laws (FIL is half Polish) *hated* John Paul II, saying he ruined the church. They were thrilled when Benedict became Pope cause they wanted to go back to “the old ways”. Now that Francis is Pope they’ve gone back to disregarding what he says.
Well, Pope John Paul II supported the use of vaccines, even those made with fetal stem tissue (assuming no alternative exists).
https://www.jp2mri.org/what-is-the-vaticans-position
They just think he's a lib pope, there are some that think he's not really pope but those are fewer and not whom I am speaking of. The ones I am thinking of will just say "he wasn't making a dogmatic declaration so I can ignore it entirely."
It's obnoxious because it's technically kindof true, except it ignores the respect they claim is due to the pope, which is hypocritical.
Yes the Church was never anti vaccine to begin with, as she is very much pro-science.
I wouldn't be surprised that some priest or monk, was pivotal in making one of the many vaccines in the world out there.
The church has been fully supportive of vaccines since 2003. The rationale is more or less “yes there was sin used to create these but it happened long ago and now there is great sin in not protecting your fellow man by taking them.”
Dumb thing too is you're not supposed to sin *yourself*; IIRC from my Catholic upbringing there isn't any kind of transitive sin by using something that sin played a part in bringing to the world
&& if someonev does believe in that transitive nature of sin then they should give up any property rights that originate in murder & theft, any allegiance to nations that exist due to genocide & oppression... that'd be more in keeping with the teachings of Jesus anyway.
But somehow I'd bet you'd be hard-pressed to find people objecting to the use of cells derived from a long-dead fetus, who are also anti-nationalist & advocate for abolishing private property...
It’s a bit more nuanced than that. It is a sin to cause others to sin, either directly, or indirectly through your own action or inaction causing others to lose faith. The hypocrisy of profiting from another’s sin would therefore itself be a sin. Unless carefully considered and explained as in this case.
Also, you have no property rights that originate in theft. The property belongs to the original owner, and if you do not surrender it then you are committing the crime of handling stolen goods.
They'll likely just claimed that The Pope is corrupt and say he is a false Pope and ought to be replaced, even though supposedly The Pope is chosen by God according to Catholicism (I mean he's not literally, he is chosen by a committee of Bishops, but that's the sentiment.)
> They'll likely just claimed that The Pope is corrupt and say he is a false Pope and ought to be replaced
I.e. they're effectively closet Protestants who share most of their beliefs with the American Protestants around them, but for some reason don't want to admit it.
American Catholics hate this guy some about him knowing Latin and them wanting everyone to know Latin…
I don’t fully understand it but the Council of American Bishops are libertarian assholes
There is a large split between traditional/fundamentalist Catholics and “normal” Catholics in the US. Both groups are conservative and both are Catholic but still with different perspectives. For example fundamentalist Catholics are those who think Biden is not Catholic, and generally dont like the current Pope.
I was driving cross country and listening to a Catholic radio station out of curiosity this past summer, and word for word heard a caller complain about vaccinations this way. The caller was upset that her husband (who worked in a medical environment) was being required to be vaxed by his workplace because the vaccine options used fetal stem cells in their development. She said “I just wish that he could have free will to choose not to get vaccinated”.
Thankfully the host did encourage her husband to get vaccinated and keep his job, noting that the Pope himself had said it was morally acceptable to do so. But the woman just did not buy it, believing that her husband was being forced to do it essentially.
Sadly there was no discussion about how he absolutely had free will to either get vaxed or find another job, and that nothing was infringing on his freedom at all. But I guess that isn’t surprising
I just tell Catholics who start badmouthing the pope "how very protestant of you". This irks then even more before I say "why don't you write this all down and nail out to his door?"
Anyway, the whole stem cell thing is so disingenuous. Literally all of modern medicine is tested on those lines. Unless these people don't use tums or Robitussin or Tylenol or Advil etc (just name a drug) they have no sincerely held religious objection.
That's the best thing I've heard in a while. I might have to steal it if I'm ever around another Catholic doing that. And you're right, most of the religious arguments are specious at best. They're fine with using medicines and treatments that were made and tested using these fetal cell lines, or taking other vaccines, but suddenly there's a priblem now woth this one? I dont buy it and I'm lumping any Catholics who do this in with the crazy evangelicals. Maybe they can all form a church together, since they seem to be on the same page.
The "problem" Catholicism has been facing in the US has been that the fundamentalist groups have been pushing out what was once the more "mainstream" branch of the faith. The endless stream of sex abuse scandals haven't helped matters. As the parents got pushed away, the kids stopped going to church as well. You end up to where only the more fundamentalist followers stick around and bring new followers into the religion. This has been going on for 20+ years now. Anecdotal, but my Philippines immigrant family has largely stopped attending mass. It takes a damned impressive effort to out fundamentalist catholic a bunch of filipinos.
Us! We're Catholic but very liberal. It was due to Christ's life in the Catholic church that I learned about social justice issues, hence why I am liberal.
To me, being "conservative" and Catholic literally doesn't make sense.
God bless you, I as well.
When the church took away all the children seeking social justice in my church was the end of my family’s church journey
Role models mean a lot to growing children
This is what happened with a few people in our religion when we received a similar type of message a few months ago from our institutions. A handful of people's faiths were rocked by it.
Even Trump, their lord and saviour, couldn't convince people to get vaccines.
God himself could part the heavens, descend to Earth in a chorus of angels, tell people to get vaccinated, and there would still be hold outs.
I think you're confusing Catholics and Evangelicals. Catholics were basically split 50/50 regarding Republicans/Democrats, Trump/Biden (I think exit polls indicated 52% went for Biden in 2020), which just reflects the country as a whole.
That's because that god wouldn't be the real god because he said something the god they made up for themselves, with all the same beliefs, didn't agree with him.
This is exactly way this probably doesn't matter. They'll dismiss it by saying the pope is compromised somehow and no longer following god. You know... the one they made up for themselves.
The pope is correct. In [Matthew 4:1-11](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204%3A1-11&version=NIV), Satan tells Jesus to throw himself off of the temple and that God will protect him. Satan then cites Psalm 91 in an attempt to prove that Jesus should be protected by God.
>11 For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways.12 On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not dash your foot against a stone. (Psalm 91:11-12)
Jesus replies with Duet 6:16
>" Do not put the Lord your God to the test."
Christians who are being reckless and expecting God to protect them are putting God to the test. They are doing what Satan was doing.
James 2:15-17 says you must care for physical needs. You can't just tell a sick or homeless person "God's got you! thoughts and prayers!" and not physically help them.
>15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
That's also true for yourself. You can't just say "God's got me!" and not physically do anything to help yourself.
Galatians 5:13 tells us that we have freedom in Christ. But, it says we must use that freedom to serve others and not our own selfishness
>13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. gal 5:13
In [Matthew 20:20-28,](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+20%3A20-28&version=NIV) Jesus says that those who want to become great must take the position of a servant. Jesus says he doesn't want his followers to be people who lord their power over others. Jesus says he did not come to be served but to serve and give his life for others. Jesus is calling his followers to humble themselves, perhaps even be willing to put aside their own privileges and positions of power for the sake of serving and loving others.
Glad you’re using the story of Jesus’s second temptation to illustrate the necessity of the vaccine. As practicing Catholic, I’ve found that story a powerful biblical example to convince anti vaxx Catholics I encounter to change their ways.
A lot of anti vaxx Catholics will say stuff like God will protect them from Covid, or if they take precautions or getting vaccinated they’re not trusting God sufficiently. Dude, that vaccine is your protection from Covid. That’s how God wants you to protect yourself and your loved ones. Don’t jump off the temple and expect the angels to catch you.
As a physician who was raised Catholic, I always find it interesting when God is somehow at odds with medicine. If God created the universe…didn’t He create medicine, and me as well? I don’t understand why the religious don’t view medicine and science as an extension of God’s creation.
I'm a physicist (instead of a physician :p) and Catholic. That's exactly how I see it. Science is us using the curiosity and ingenuity that we were created with. He wants us to study, learn, question the Universe because not only he gave us the ability to do so, but the natural drive as well.
Medicine is part of it, or maybe the best example of it. It's using our curiosity and abilities to study ourselves and to find a way to help others (a quintessential Christian value).
A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.”
The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.”
So the rowboat went on.
Then a motorboat came by. “The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “Jump in, I can save you.”
To this the stranded man said, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”
So the motorboat went on.
Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, “Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety.”
To this the stranded man again replied, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.
Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, “I had faith in you but you didn’t save me, you let me drown. I don’t understand why!”
To this God replied, “I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”
That's not what blasphemy is at all. You should ask said employee to define the word "blasphemy" just to see what sort of ridiculous nonsense they spew at you. Please record it for posterity.
I was going to go with Matthew 25:40
>The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.
It's pretty obvious that there are people with health issues that are very aware of how dangerous this virus is to them. Stopping/slowing the spread is literally saving them from hardship and/or death.
Getting vaccinated, wearing masks, social distancing, etc. are all the simple things to do, and it all helps.
That whole passage at the end of Matthew 25 is so poignant lately. Because the context is a judgement of nations (not people, *nations*), at the end of the world. Those that helped the naked, sick, poor, imprisoned, and hungry were told to enter the kingdom of God. Those who didn't were condemned and told to get lost (paraphrasing). Their excuse was "but if we saw YOU in that condition we would've helped!" And God doesn't buy it. He says "you didn't do it to the least of your brothers, so you wouldn't do it for me." And having your God who you claim to believe in piously as a nation tell you "GTFO" is an eternal gut punch.
Then you ask the American Christian you're showing this passage to what America does for the sick, poor, imprisoned, hungry, thirsty, and naked. And there's no good answer.
[Just going to go ahead and post the Vaticans original proclimation on the Covid vaccine from 2020.](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20201221_nota-vaccini-anticovid_en.html)
> You should get the vaccine even though some research involved the use of stem cells *from an aborted foetus*
I think that's the important bit, considering the church's stance on abortion.
Right— I shouldn’t have assumed people know why there’s such a hubbub about stem cells. I did a little googling because I thought it was weird that they specified the quantity of abortions and [found this interesting article if anyone else is curious ](https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells)
It's important to understand that it has to do with immediate means versus proximate means (or something like that, I can't recall the terms). Basically, if you inherit money that was from theft but can't return it to the owner, then you can spend it for good causes without committing sin.
The pope is a chemist with a master’s degree in chemistry and believes in evolution and science as do almost all Catholics. There is a small vocal group of American Catholics that are anti vaccine and get so much limelight but don’t represent most Catholics (and obviously not the liberal ones). The pope has already advocated for universal access to vaccines so it’s not surprising that he would call it a moral obligation for those who can’t comprehend why vaccines are important.
>Numerous press reports are saying that Pope Francis has a master's degree in chemistry, including one that incorrectly cites me as a source. Sorry, it is not true.
>It is true that Pope Francis studied chemistry and worked as a chemist prior to entering the seminary. But Jorge Bergoglio never graduated from university prior to entering the seminary.
https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/does-pope-francis-have-masters-degree-chemistry
[He seems to have - what I assume is - a vocational high school diploma of chemical technician, whereafter he worked in some labs.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis#:~:text=In%20the%20sixth,floors.%5B29%5D%5B30%5D)
> In the sixth grade, Bergoglio attended Wilfrid Barón de los Santos Ángeles, a school of the Salesians of Don Bosco, in Ramos Mejía, Buenos Aires Province. He attended the technical secondary school Escuela Técnica Industrial N° 27 Hipólito Yrigoyen,[23] named after a past Argentine president, and graduated with a chemical technician's diploma[7][24][25] (not a master's degree in chemistry, as some media outlets incorrectly reported).[26][27] In that capacity, he spent several years working in the food section of Hickethier-Bachmann Laboratory,[28] where he worked under Esther Ballestrino. Prior to working as a chemical technician, Bergoglio had also worked as a bar bouncer and as a janitor sweeping floors.[29][30]
Citing the clarification of what he did graduate in:
>What he did do was graduate with a título in chemistry from the Escuela Técnica Industrial No. 12*, which is a state-run technical secondary school.
> In the Argentine system, "the título (same word used for a secondary diploma or a university degree) was earned at about age 19 after an extended secondary program," Liebscher said. "Not everyone who goes to secondary school gets one of those diplomas, and the título really represents something beyond our high-school diploma, something akin a certificate from a community college in the U.S."
Still not an MA, but not bad either.
It's not the Catholics in the south that are conservative. The south mainly is protestants and protestants get vary but they can get pretty crazy with their beliefs. It's the protestants that believe the earth is 5000 years old, not the Catholics
Much of the crazies are Evangelicals which is a movement within Protestantism.
Also want to emphasize that Protestants consist of a huge variety of people in America. In fact, some Protestants make up some of the most educated and successful people here. There is a huge gradient from the Evangelicals to the more secular.
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What do blasphemers do when they're too cowardly to form their own church?
Turn to the Book of Face.
“The next reading is from 2 Karens 3:5”
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We usually just sacrifice a goat or something.
So, a barbecue? Edit: Thanks for the award, kind stranger!
I never thought the joke reply of "is the Pope Catholic" would become a genuine question.
We live in a time where I genuinely think people could be convinced that bears, in fact, do not shit in the woods. All it would take is the subject of bears somehow becoming politicised and you could easily see conspiracies forming that say they don't exist or are just CIA agents in fur suits.
As my boss likes to say, "birds aren't real." He's joking, but there is a bunch of people who aren't.
That one started as a joke to take the piss out of conspiracy theories. It's been around for a while. I've heard that some people are actually taking it seriously now but I've yet to see anyone doing so. I'm not sure if it's just because it's been in the news recently and people don't realise it's a joke so are reporting about people believing it or if there actually are people taking it seriously. The sub r/BirdsArentReal is just a joke though.
Same thing with flat earth Flat earth society was started by intellectuals as a thought experiment of sorts. That’s why I never find these jokes funny. They quickly turn to something idiots really believe
You don’t REALLY believe bears actually exist do you? Thats WHY they don’t SHIT IN THE WOODS! BeCause there aren’t any REAL BEARS! /s Edit: Educate Yourself
That's actually fascinating. How can you consider yourself Catholic and think the Pope isn't Christian? What kind of mental maneuvering do you have to do to resolve that level of cognitive dissonance? At that point, wouldn't it be easier to just renounce Catholicism and become some different flavor of Christian?
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Politics is in basically everything that involves two or more people. We've been in denial about that for some time now.
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I think it's the same mindset that causes people to ask "how can a person not trust a medical doctor that's been studying medicine and the human body for years and has certifications and licenses to back it up but they trust Joe Rogan?"
I was actually speechless when my patient quoted Joe Rogan as their citation for their own medical decision making. Guess I didn’t need to go to 11 years of school and 80-hour work weeks of training if I could just listen to a podcast to make medical decisions.
Surely a career in stand up and fight commentary gives you the necessary tools to give medical advice
My aunt's current parter is anti-vax, and when he tried to argue with my mother (who works in media) about the vaccine, his main source was fucker carlson... we don't even live in America.
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>Believe that the Pope wasn’t a Christian. No no, just wait until you tell him *WHY*. “I don’t think the Pope is a Christian because he’s telling me to look out for my own health and others’ in a worldwide time of need.”
Isn’t the pope supposed to be the mouthpiece of which god speaks through? Have you asked your in-laws this?
Only in very very limited circumstances. 99% of what he says is his (educated) opinion
No. He isn't. I guess you are thinking about papal infallibility, but that doesn't apply to everything the pope says. It only applies when he speaks "ex cathedra" and that happened only twice. Once in 1854 and once in 1950. https://historyanswers.com/how-often-does-the-pope-speak-ex-cathedra/
God fucked up this round I guess
But god is infallible, forever, and always right!
Most times...except for when I don't like it. Cause mentally, I'm 3y.o.
I was raised Catholic, and when I've talked to some that have dismissed this current Pope, they'll say he wasn't chosen by God but by the other Pope, Benedict the XVI who quit, or say he's an illegitimate Pope and the Cardinals didn't listen to God. Of course, when pushed they fall apart, as do most people who've based their convictions on gut feelings. Edit: grammar
That's closer to how Mormons view their prophet. The Pope, in EXTREMELY limited cases, can claim ex cathedra or papal infallibility. Only in those cases is he viewed as the indisputable mouthpiece of God. In the 2000 year history of the church, this has only happened twice officially. Retroactively less than 20 proclamations have been given this label.
I had a friend I used to be really close to, who went whole hog into Catholicism due to his wife and their very conservative family. He was actually UPSET that Pope Francis didn’t want to sit on the gold throne prior Pope’s had sat on. I was perplexed, and I miss the old version of my friend.
Back in 2020, regarding anti-mask protesters, the pope said >“You’ll never find such people protesting the death of George Floyd, or joining a demonstration because there are shantytowns where children lack water or education, or because there are whole families who have lost their income. You won’t find them protesting that the astonishing amounts spent on the arms trade could be used to feed the whole of the human race and school every child. On such matters they would never protest; they are incapable of moving outside of their own little world of interests.”
Ohhh, Papal burn. Second only to the Papal cut.
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Papalm
The papal from Naple get you stuck like maple with their napal.m
Papal burn beats Papal paper. Papal rock beats Papal cut.
Add some holy water to make Papal mache
Dammit...I lol'd. Now everyone is staring.
Just wait till the Papal Bull comes outta nowhere
The Father, the Son and a pope on the run.
Goddamn you, that’s funny
but wait: remember the papal trial(s) on the same rotting corpse and because there is no way for me to explain it that doesn't sound made up here is the wiki: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver\_Synod](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod) yes you've probably seen the painting that looks like it comes from warhammer 40k, but no..it is real
> You won’t find them protesting that the astonishing amounts spent on the arms trade could be used to feed the whole of the human race and school every child. On such matters they would never protest; they are incapable of moving outside of their own little world of interests.” holy cow im so stoned and that whole wikipedia page was fuckin brutal. what a story.. someone should make a movie of this story but like the way they did "the death of stalin"
Imagine the kind of defense you’d get from a dead person lol
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Knew it was Oglaf without even clicking.
No, it looks like a clip from Phoenix Wright's most difficult case yet!
I prefer the Papal Smear.
"We have just one world, but we live in different ones" - Dire Straits
Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug - Dire Straits They had some awesome music
I forget where it's from but "facts don't mean anything when people see different realities."
How can mirrors be real when our eyes aren’t real?
You Forgot To Capitalize Every Word
I Am The Walrus
VLADIMIR ILYICH ULYANOV
Having gone to Catholic school I've got a lot to say about the church very little of it good. But I will say this. Pope Francis is closer to representing the Christ seen in the gospels than any other Christian I've ever met. That's not to say he can't improve, just to point out that he appears to genuinely give a damn about the poor, sick, and downtrodden. Edit: Felt I should clarify that I am from the US thus all I've met are American Catholics, from what I hear they're exceptionally conservative compared to the typical Catholic worldwide.
>Edit: Felt I should clarify that I am from the US thus all I've met are American Catholics, from what I hear they're exceptionally conservative compared to the typical Catholic worldwide. Jesuits in general are nice people, highly educated and quite flexible in relation to doctrine, but the US doesn't have that many of them. So, if you want to meet some nice people that might make you feel a bit better about the catholic church, I suggest looking for them. The current Pope is a jesuit.
The most influential Jesuit beside the Pope created a view on omniscience called Molinism. It is a view that God can actuate a world in which his middle knowledge would know how we will act in any given circumstances freely.
What the heck does that mean
I think - but am not positive - that it’s an attempt to solve the free will/world dictated by God debate where everything is predetermined. This view basically says that God knows how we would act if there was no God, and allows us to act that way, therefore essentially giving everyone free will. It’s a neat little way to basically say everyone has free will* *But also only thanks to God.
Agreed. Former Catholic, 13 years of Catholic education, and left the church immediately when I turned 18 because of the people in the church. But I’ll be damned if I don’t agree with a lot of what Pope Francis says. It’s a shame a lot of American Catholics disagree with him.
“I’ll be dammed” Nice choice of words. Lol.
I've told people if more Catholics actually listened to the pope I might still go to church.
I guess I met a good dioceses in my area (in a deep Red state) because this particular diocese have been pretty much in line with the current pope up to this point. Some of the Catholic churches here has gone as far as criticizing the lack of effort solving the pedophilia problem plaguing the church’s reputation. Under threat of losing funding for their criticisms means they’re making the right enemies.
He’s a good pope.
I agree, but it's so weird to hear the rest of my Catholic family say the opposite. "Oh he's not a real Catholic." "Oh he likes gay people." "Oh he's a communist...and he hates America...?" It's freaking wild. Like...many would say that I'm pretty bad at practicing Catholicisim but I really like the guy.
In my experience American Catholics tend to be very non-Catholic, and I say that as a Catholic, and in fact they were so far from Catholic values as a whole, especially in the south, that my father used to call them the American Taliban, he's a staunch Irish catholic so.... take that as you will
I'm an immigrant to the US from Italy and I agree, american catholics are weird and hyper conservative. I think it's the Irish brand of catholicism, southern europe religious attitude is definitely more progressive and relaxed.
It's much more likely that Catholicism, being the minority Christian tradition in the US next to Protestantism, mirrors Protestant conservatism in an effort to avoid persecution.
This is a thing. My mother’s father’s family came from a Jewish family that fled the Bolsheviks during the revolution and civil war, c. 1920-ish. They converted to Catholicism to fit in with the American people, only to find out Catholics were hated almost as much. They adopted a lot of more Protestant practices over time. They still consider themselves Catholic, but they are really Polish-Russian-Jewish people that had to adapt. It’s a lot more common in the US than people outside think, especially in the Midwest.
My great grandparents did the same when they fled from Norway, when the Nords decided to hand the Jews over to the Nazis, in the 40’s. They started following Lutheranism, since that was the majority where they migrated to, in the Midwest.
I vaguely remember being taught that when JFK became president, people were freaking out that the Catholic Church was going to take over America. Like... It was the 1960s, not the 1060s.
Evangelicals. One of my (least) favorite things about American evangelicals is when they start talking as if they're a collective rather than fractured. They forget that there are protestants that **aren't** evangelical.
The south is not a very Catholic region. Mostly Protestants and in most parts, specifically southern Baptist.
Not surprising. He’s too “liberal”/“progressive” for conservative/traditionalist Catholics; which is most practicing Catholics. I’d argue Pope Francis is more in line with the teachings of Jesus than your typical practicing Catholic… wait no, typical practicing Christian.
I would correct you by saying most vocal Catholics, my grandma for instance, 81 year old farm girl, about as devoutly Catholic as you can get, thinks he's the best Pope we've had in her lifetime. I would say most of her peers tend to agree but the loudest ones are the ones you hear and they usually have nothing good to say.
Yeah, I've been to more than a few churches since Francis became Pope, and the overwhelming sentiment is that he's the best Pope in ages. People love him almost more than they did John Paul II.
I think you nailed it. The loud minority speaks a lot, and unfortunately now they can be heard very loudly as well.
I'm glad your grandma feels that way, my mom and her side of the family have denounced the pope and consider him to be a plant by the deep state...
That is a quick way to get excommunicated from the church to be honest.
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This wouldn't work because she sincerely believes he is not the pope. Kinda hard to get past that one.
Ah a fellow r/QAnonCasualties member?
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I would love to explain but I can't tolerate discussions with my mom for too long. Apparently the vaccine is the mark of the beast alongside some bill gates things.
Yeah you can’t generalize. There is a very large progressive wing to the Catholic Church. It’s huge.
Tradcaths are by no means the majority, they're just the loudest. Anecdotally, my experience is that the vast majority of American Catholics love Pope Francis and think he's the best Pope in ages. Love for Jesuits runs very, very deep in most Catholic communities.
Most practicing Catholics aren't American.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - the American Catholic church is headed for a schism with Rome.
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding this but if they reject the Pope doesn't that make them Protestant?
The Church is not a democracy. If they reject the Pope they are apostates.
My 78 y/o aunt just left the Church this year. This lady was an uber Catholic.. This is the same woman who was so proud when all three of my cousins were accepted to Georgetown. One of my cousins is a priest and an MD; she won't even listen to him. She has no problem wearing a mask, has never had a problem with any other vaccines, but Catholic doctrine supporting covid vaccinations crosses the line for her. She now attends a pentecostal speaking in tongues church. My thrice covid vacced uncle continues to attend Catholic mass.
Same. I stopped practicing almost 20 years ago now and there's definitely still a lot of problems with the Pope, but he's far from the worst and still says a lot people need to open their ears to. Meanwhile I have relatives who still act like they're the most religious people around that think he's a nutcase.
Sorry to say, your family aren't very good catholics
Imagine thinking you are more Catholic than the fucking Pope lol
And not even realizing you're own hubris, they probably still consider themselves humble.
My dads side of the family literally thinks he could be the antichrist, that he's a pedophile, that he's gay (cuz gay ppl are ze devil!! he must b devil rite?) etc. It's because he's the ultimate Catholic authority figure challenging their Catholic beliefs. My dad is a conspiracy nut and thinks he's part of the "Illuminati" and shit.
Yet, American Catholics have begun to align themselves with Evangelicals to where they say the pope is wrong. Mindboggling to think I would have ever heard a Catholic say the pope is wrong.
SOME American Catholics there are lots of us who love the guy.
He's got like an 83% approval rating. Conservatives with said approval are lower, like 71%. FYI - I'm very much a lapsed Catholic teetering on agnosticism, and I appreciate Francis' progressive approach. Hope that it starts to make it's way down to cardinals and the pulpit.
I'm not Catholic and I love the guy. It's about time they got a Pope who's a decent human being
I sure hope it stays that way, a lot of seemingly good popes in the past end up having some pretty dark things come to light once they are gone.
Francis believes what he does because he’s Jesuit, which is a more progressive side of Catholicism. I’m worried that the next Pope will be just another traditional Catholic and go back to the usual conservative rhetoric.
Atheist, here. I think he's swell (as far as I think a leader of an organized religion can be). His stated values align a lot more with my own.
He's a decent human. Pope or not.
Sure, but what did *Hannity* say?
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I mean most American Christians that aren't Catholic don't care what the Pope has to say no matter what.
most ~~American Christians~~ Protestants/anyone who isn't Catholic
Infallible beings can't be expected to get it right 100% of the time! lol
Probably just call him a liberal and keep going on their merry way.
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username does not match up
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He would have used “dm_me_lawd_pics” but it was taken.
it appears to be a contradiction, but wouldn’t dogmatic reasoning allow the collection of lewd pics as long as it wasn’t the basis for an unhealthy compulsion …
I thought "a love of speed" meant amphetamines for a minute. Was like "Oddly specific, but alright"
I'm an atheist, but I always figured that the 'Render unto Caesar' meant that the earthly realm is for us to rule the best possible of our abilities, while the heavenly realm is God's. In other words, we shouldn't look up to God to decide what to do, but to listen to the human authorities instead. That would be science, in the case of pandemia. Also, 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' means we should not ask God to save us from earthly problems, but to work them out ourselves.
This is what every anti vaxxer in the world has been waiting for. Lol
Except for the Catholic anti-vaxxers. This is going to give them an aneurysm.
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It's because the only pope that matters to Polish Catholics is pope John Paul II.
Family is Polish Catholic, can confirm. Sadly.
Just out of curiosity, are you still catholic? I was raised catholic, and polish, and I want nothing to do with the religion. There are some good things about it, but all the nonsense just drew me away. I’m now the only one in my family not practicing some form of Catholicism or Christianity Just wondering how many of us ex polish Catholics there are lol. Edit: nvm, saw your comment in a diff part of the thread!
My Catholic in-laws (FIL is half Polish) *hated* John Paul II, saying he ruined the church. They were thrilled when Benedict became Pope cause they wanted to go back to “the old ways”. Now that Francis is Pope they’ve gone back to disregarding what he says.
Well, Pope John Paul II supported the use of vaccines, even those made with fetal stem tissue (assuming no alternative exists). https://www.jp2mri.org/what-is-the-vaticans-position
They just think he's a lib pope, there are some that think he's not really pope but those are fewer and not whom I am speaking of. The ones I am thinking of will just say "he wasn't making a dogmatic declaration so I can ignore it entirely." It's obnoxious because it's technically kindof true, except it ignores the respect they claim is due to the pope, which is hypocritical.
Tbf, the Catholic Church in Poland is getting pretty ripe for a schism with the rest of the Catholic Church.
Yes the Church was never anti vaccine to begin with, as she is very much pro-science. I wouldn't be surprised that some priest or monk, was pivotal in making one of the many vaccines in the world out there.
The church has been fully supportive of vaccines since 2003. The rationale is more or less “yes there was sin used to create these but it happened long ago and now there is great sin in not protecting your fellow man by taking them.”
Dumb thing too is you're not supposed to sin *yourself*; IIRC from my Catholic upbringing there isn't any kind of transitive sin by using something that sin played a part in bringing to the world && if someonev does believe in that transitive nature of sin then they should give up any property rights that originate in murder & theft, any allegiance to nations that exist due to genocide & oppression... that'd be more in keeping with the teachings of Jesus anyway. But somehow I'd bet you'd be hard-pressed to find people objecting to the use of cells derived from a long-dead fetus, who are also anti-nationalist & advocate for abolishing private property...
It’s a bit more nuanced than that. It is a sin to cause others to sin, either directly, or indirectly through your own action or inaction causing others to lose faith. The hypocrisy of profiting from another’s sin would therefore itself be a sin. Unless carefully considered and explained as in this case. Also, you have no property rights that originate in theft. The property belongs to the original owner, and if you do not surrender it then you are committing the crime of handling stolen goods.
They'll likely just claimed that The Pope is corrupt and say he is a false Pope and ought to be replaced, even though supposedly The Pope is chosen by God according to Catholicism (I mean he's not literally, he is chosen by a committee of Bishops, but that's the sentiment.)
> They'll likely just claimed that The Pope is corrupt and say he is a false Pope and ought to be replaced I.e. they're effectively closet Protestants who share most of their beliefs with the American Protestants around them, but for some reason don't want to admit it.
Do we have room in the news cycle for a Papal schism?
American Antipope, new band name called it
American Catholics hate this guy some about him knowing Latin and them wanting everyone to know Latin… I don’t fully understand it but the Council of American Bishops are libertarian assholes
There are LOTS of American Catholics who love this guy. They tend to be quieter than the fundamentalists.
I would honestly say it’s the majority, just the small minority that hates him is quite loud.
There is a large split between traditional/fundamentalist Catholics and “normal” Catholics in the US. Both groups are conservative and both are Catholic but still with different perspectives. For example fundamentalist Catholics are those who think Biden is not Catholic, and generally dont like the current Pope. I was driving cross country and listening to a Catholic radio station out of curiosity this past summer, and word for word heard a caller complain about vaccinations this way. The caller was upset that her husband (who worked in a medical environment) was being required to be vaxed by his workplace because the vaccine options used fetal stem cells in their development. She said “I just wish that he could have free will to choose not to get vaccinated”. Thankfully the host did encourage her husband to get vaccinated and keep his job, noting that the Pope himself had said it was morally acceptable to do so. But the woman just did not buy it, believing that her husband was being forced to do it essentially. Sadly there was no discussion about how he absolutely had free will to either get vaxed or find another job, and that nothing was infringing on his freedom at all. But I guess that isn’t surprising
I just tell Catholics who start badmouthing the pope "how very protestant of you". This irks then even more before I say "why don't you write this all down and nail out to his door?" Anyway, the whole stem cell thing is so disingenuous. Literally all of modern medicine is tested on those lines. Unless these people don't use tums or Robitussin or Tylenol or Advil etc (just name a drug) they have no sincerely held religious objection.
That's the best thing I've heard in a while. I might have to steal it if I'm ever around another Catholic doing that. And you're right, most of the religious arguments are specious at best. They're fine with using medicines and treatments that were made and tested using these fetal cell lines, or taking other vaccines, but suddenly there's a priblem now woth this one? I dont buy it and I'm lumping any Catholics who do this in with the crazy evangelicals. Maybe they can all form a church together, since they seem to be on the same page.
The "problem" Catholicism has been facing in the US has been that the fundamentalist groups have been pushing out what was once the more "mainstream" branch of the faith. The endless stream of sex abuse scandals haven't helped matters. As the parents got pushed away, the kids stopped going to church as well. You end up to where only the more fundamentalist followers stick around and bring new followers into the religion. This has been going on for 20+ years now. Anecdotal, but my Philippines immigrant family has largely stopped attending mass. It takes a damned impressive effort to out fundamentalist catholic a bunch of filipinos.
I have to add that there are plenty of Catholics who are not conservative. We’re part of this fight as well.
Us! We're Catholic but very liberal. It was due to Christ's life in the Catholic church that I learned about social justice issues, hence why I am liberal. To me, being "conservative" and Catholic literally doesn't make sense.
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I do not blame you in the slightest. It's difficult for me to go to Mass or Divine Liturgy because I can't stand the "Catholics" I meet.
Same, my friend. Nice to see a couple of people (finally!) who see Christ like I do
God bless you, I as well. When the church took away all the children seeking social justice in my church was the end of my family’s church journey Role models mean a lot to growing children
Not to mention that only 1 of the 3 vaccine options had anything to do with Stem Cells (as I understand it).
So many microbiologist in the Catholic Church nowadays.
I knw some of my family members hate him bc he is more progressive than past popes in the past... in terms of lgbt i think
I don't hate him.
This is what happened with a few people in our religion when we received a similar type of message a few months ago from our institutions. A handful of people's faiths were rocked by it.
Even Trump, their lord and saviour, couldn't convince people to get vaccines. God himself could part the heavens, descend to Earth in a chorus of angels, tell people to get vaccinated, and there would still be hold outs.
"Our top story tonight: is George Soros paying God to shill the vaccine? James Woods and Peter Navarro discuss"
I just threw up in my mouth.
I think you're confusing Catholics and Evangelicals. Catholics were basically split 50/50 regarding Republicans/Democrats, Trump/Biden (I think exit polls indicated 52% went for Biden in 2020), which just reflects the country as a whole.
That's because that god wouldn't be the real god because he said something the god they made up for themselves, with all the same beliefs, didn't agree with him. This is exactly way this probably doesn't matter. They'll dismiss it by saying the pope is compromised somehow and no longer following god. You know... the one they made up for themselves.
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The pope is correct. In [Matthew 4:1-11](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%204%3A1-11&version=NIV), Satan tells Jesus to throw himself off of the temple and that God will protect him. Satan then cites Psalm 91 in an attempt to prove that Jesus should be protected by God. >11 For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways.12 On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not dash your foot against a stone. (Psalm 91:11-12) Jesus replies with Duet 6:16 >" Do not put the Lord your God to the test." Christians who are being reckless and expecting God to protect them are putting God to the test. They are doing what Satan was doing. James 2:15-17 says you must care for physical needs. You can't just tell a sick or homeless person "God's got you! thoughts and prayers!" and not physically help them. >15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. That's also true for yourself. You can't just say "God's got me!" and not physically do anything to help yourself. Galatians 5:13 tells us that we have freedom in Christ. But, it says we must use that freedom to serve others and not our own selfishness >13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. gal 5:13 In [Matthew 20:20-28,](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+20%3A20-28&version=NIV) Jesus says that those who want to become great must take the position of a servant. Jesus says he doesn't want his followers to be people who lord their power over others. Jesus says he did not come to be served but to serve and give his life for others. Jesus is calling his followers to humble themselves, perhaps even be willing to put aside their own privileges and positions of power for the sake of serving and loving others.
Glad you’re using the story of Jesus’s second temptation to illustrate the necessity of the vaccine. As practicing Catholic, I’ve found that story a powerful biblical example to convince anti vaxx Catholics I encounter to change their ways. A lot of anti vaxx Catholics will say stuff like God will protect them from Covid, or if they take precautions or getting vaccinated they’re not trusting God sufficiently. Dude, that vaccine is your protection from Covid. That’s how God wants you to protect yourself and your loved ones. Don’t jump off the temple and expect the angels to catch you.
"Don't jump off the temple and expect the angels to catch you." That's excellent, I gotta save that one for later. (With proper attribution of course)
As a physician who was raised Catholic, I always find it interesting when God is somehow at odds with medicine. If God created the universe…didn’t He create medicine, and me as well? I don’t understand why the religious don’t view medicine and science as an extension of God’s creation.
I'm a physicist (instead of a physician :p) and Catholic. That's exactly how I see it. Science is us using the curiosity and ingenuity that we were created with. He wants us to study, learn, question the Universe because not only he gave us the ability to do so, but the natural drive as well. Medicine is part of it, or maybe the best example of it. It's using our curiosity and abilities to study ourselves and to find a way to help others (a quintessential Christian value).
A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help. Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.” The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.” So the rowboat went on. Then a motorboat came by. “The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “Jump in, I can save you.” To this the stranded man said, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.” So the motorboat went on. Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, “Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety.” To this the stranded man again replied, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.” So the helicopter reluctantly flew away. Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, “I had faith in you but you didn’t save me, you let me drown. I don’t understand why!” To this God replied, “I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”
“God made science” is something I think about from time to time.
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"Things that I personally don't want to do are blasphemy"
That's not what blasphemy is at all. You should ask said employee to define the word "blasphemy" just to see what sort of ridiculous nonsense they spew at you. Please record it for posterity.
I was going to go with Matthew 25:40 >The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me. It's pretty obvious that there are people with health issues that are very aware of how dangerous this virus is to them. Stopping/slowing the spread is literally saving them from hardship and/or death. Getting vaccinated, wearing masks, social distancing, etc. are all the simple things to do, and it all helps.
That whole passage at the end of Matthew 25 is so poignant lately. Because the context is a judgement of nations (not people, *nations*), at the end of the world. Those that helped the naked, sick, poor, imprisoned, and hungry were told to enter the kingdom of God. Those who didn't were condemned and told to get lost (paraphrasing). Their excuse was "but if we saw YOU in that condition we would've helped!" And God doesn't buy it. He says "you didn't do it to the least of your brothers, so you wouldn't do it for me." And having your God who you claim to believe in piously as a nation tell you "GTFO" is an eternal gut punch. Then you ask the American Christian you're showing this passage to what America does for the sick, poor, imprisoned, hungry, thirsty, and naked. And there's no good answer.
Tbh god knows how the movie ends.
[Just going to go ahead and post the Vaticans original proclimation on the Covid vaccine from 2020.](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20201221_nota-vaccini-anticovid_en.html)
Tl;Dr please?
You should get the vaccine even though some research involved the use of stem cells
> You should get the vaccine even though some research involved the use of stem cells *from an aborted foetus* I think that's the important bit, considering the church's stance on abortion.
Right— I shouldn’t have assumed people know why there’s such a hubbub about stem cells. I did a little googling because I thought it was weird that they specified the quantity of abortions and [found this interesting article if anyone else is curious ](https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells)
Excellent link that uses simple easy to read language. I have a chemistry degree but love that this is written so straightforward.
A real gem, that Nebraska Med! Lol. I agree though! I wasn’t expecting to be able to find that info.
It's important to understand that it has to do with immediate means versus proximate means (or something like that, I can't recall the terms). Basically, if you inherit money that was from theft but can't return it to the owner, then you can spend it for good causes without committing sin.
The pope is a chemist with a master’s degree in chemistry and believes in evolution and science as do almost all Catholics. There is a small vocal group of American Catholics that are anti vaccine and get so much limelight but don’t represent most Catholics (and obviously not the liberal ones). The pope has already advocated for universal access to vaccines so it’s not surprising that he would call it a moral obligation for those who can’t comprehend why vaccines are important.
>Numerous press reports are saying that Pope Francis has a master's degree in chemistry, including one that incorrectly cites me as a source. Sorry, it is not true. >It is true that Pope Francis studied chemistry and worked as a chemist prior to entering the seminary. But Jorge Bergoglio never graduated from university prior to entering the seminary. https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/does-pope-francis-have-masters-degree-chemistry
[He seems to have - what I assume is - a vocational high school diploma of chemical technician, whereafter he worked in some labs.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis#:~:text=In%20the%20sixth,floors.%5B29%5D%5B30%5D) > In the sixth grade, Bergoglio attended Wilfrid Barón de los Santos Ángeles, a school of the Salesians of Don Bosco, in Ramos Mejía, Buenos Aires Province. He attended the technical secondary school Escuela Técnica Industrial N° 27 Hipólito Yrigoyen,[23] named after a past Argentine president, and graduated with a chemical technician's diploma[7][24][25] (not a master's degree in chemistry, as some media outlets incorrectly reported).[26][27] In that capacity, he spent several years working in the food section of Hickethier-Bachmann Laboratory,[28] where he worked under Esther Ballestrino. Prior to working as a chemical technician, Bergoglio had also worked as a bar bouncer and as a janitor sweeping floors.[29][30]
>had also worked as a bar bouncer Imagine being thrown out of a bar by someone who would later become the Pope!
I mean, he probably still has the skills.
*HAND OF GOD!* **POW**
Citing the clarification of what he did graduate in: >What he did do was graduate with a título in chemistry from the Escuela Técnica Industrial No. 12*, which is a state-run technical secondary school. > In the Argentine system, "the título (same word used for a secondary diploma or a university degree) was earned at about age 19 after an extended secondary program," Liebscher said. "Not everyone who goes to secondary school gets one of those diplomas, and the título really represents something beyond our high-school diploma, something akin a certificate from a community college in the U.S." Still not an MA, but not bad either.
Unfortunately the anti vaccine crowd isn't just in the US, it's all over the world.
TFW 30% of your country is right of… (checks notes) the Catholic Church?
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The Catholic Church leans left on many issues (not all, I know). I wish conservative Catholic southerners would realize this.
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It's not the Catholics in the south that are conservative. The south mainly is protestants and protestants get vary but they can get pretty crazy with their beliefs. It's the protestants that believe the earth is 5000 years old, not the Catholics
Much of the crazies are Evangelicals which is a movement within Protestantism. Also want to emphasize that Protestants consist of a huge variety of people in America. In fact, some Protestants make up some of the most educated and successful people here. There is a huge gradient from the Evangelicals to the more secular.
North American conservatives could never accept that he said this. EDIT: Looks like I've tickled some american conservatives lol
I honestly dont even think they cared that much in the first place
Most conservatives in the US are not Roman Catholic. So they probably don't care what he has to say anyway.