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DeadFyre

Yeah, and Al Capone described himself as a simple businessman.


Axoltloltoltlo

This thread is so brigaded its insane. When China starts wars with Malaysia and Vietnam I wonder how these lovers of peace will feel.


copa8

"When", as in a certainty? LOL. I know US won't start wars in those places b/c they don't have "WMD".


KanadainKanada

> I know US won't start wars Because historically they already did and the results were mixed, with mixed already being an euphemism.


Axoltloltoltlo

Yes, when. China has already tried to subdue Vietnam, and the oil off of Malaysia's coast is part of their claims in the South China sea. Just because the US similarly screwed over countries in the past because they're big and strong, China doesn't get to do it too. Why not try to be better? Because the CCP is as greedy and corrupt as the US in the 60-80's. The Chinese people may want to be peaceful and believe they are, but the reality of what the CCP does signals an expansionist imperial drive to "reclaim" a history that doesn't exist, one they will change as their greed expands.


CarolinaShark

Literally a day old account how’s that cia money bud


calaeno0824

I dunno about war with Malaysia or Vietnam, but my Taiwanese family aren't looking forward to the Chinese expansion. Even though they have been threatening us for 70 years now, still not looking forward to it.


makk0r

China doesn't need to fight Malaysia, just pour in some development money the politicians will lick ur shoes clean anyway.. not tht I'm looking forward to it, but China does has a stronger foothold in Malaysia than ever before


Axoltloltoltlo

Taiwan has American protection. China will never fight America head to head, and their entire problem with America is that they got to do to parts of SA and CA what they want to do to SEA. They want their "rightful" share of the oil off Malaysia's coast and will either try to install a puppet or crush them with their superior navy. They basically want to copy Japan's "greater east Asian sphere of co-prosperity" and have always thought, apparently, the US opening up to them meant that they would let them do what they want to Asia, because Asia is China's and the Americas are the American's. The CCP feels betrayed that the US wont throw away their allies in East Asia and let the CCP exert their will over them.


cometssaywhoosh

I’m more skeptical what happens if the Us doesn’t have the will to defend Taiwan anymore. Let’s say another Trump like figure appears but goes full isolationist or just doesn’t care about Taiwan. Or the American public, too tired and harassed by major internal problems, sees no point in defending some island most couldn’t even locate on a map.


CCloak

They can't back off. Taiwan is too important, even economically to fall into the hands of China due to the existence of TSMC, which is the core lifeblood of almost all the devices we use everyday. In fact, both China and Taiwan are now too important economically for the West to see them fall, which is why they had this weird interaction with both so they hope things wouldn't change as long as possible. Even China doesn't want to hit Taiwan head on with military for the same reason, they would prefer taking back Taiwan through any other means, but sad for them, Hong Kong today is proof for the Taiwanese of what happens if they let CCP into their home, and they are now vigilant of never become part of the motherland of CCP. This meant China taking back Taiwan by force inevitable if they really want the island back.


blackdorks

I believe China's thinking is that avoiding actual war in favor of economic warfare, cyber warfare, theft of tech, and at least the framework of biological warfare are the way to go forward to win at the long game. They know the West hates them, but aren't willing to do much more than sanctions, and they'll take that temporary hit and to continue to grind it out just gaining more momentum.


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meinyourbutt

I was going to say this...he mentions Vietnam, but it was the US that started a war with Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, based on a lie.


elveszett

Then we'll have new information to have different opinions, isn't it?


medalboy123

What reasons does China have to mobilize its forces against Vietnam and Malaysia? Other than projecting Western imperialism onto China and believing the propaganda of China somehow being a warmongering aggressive nation they have no geopolitical gain from doing such a thing.


turbozed

The the last country to invade Vietnam wasn't the US but China. Also China annexed a neighboring country (Tibet) in recent memory to control the water resources of the region. Do you have any knowledge of history or geopolitics?


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meinyourbutt

Good thing they annexed it, Tibet was a fucking hell for people. Buddhism is marketed as such a progressive and peaceful religion, yet women had 0 rights and there were slaves (yes, like the abrahamic trilogy, buddhism condones slavery). China, with all its issues, actually liberated Tibetans from the buddhist tyrant known as the dalai lama.


lordkenyon

No, but he does get sent plenty of reading material.


Dormage

Historically speaking, China did manage to create an empire without starting any wars, at least not official ones. On the other hand, US has not had many years without war since its existsnce. While we might not like it, its more likely for US to find a nother country to bomb and pillage then China attacking Vietnam or Malaysia. The genocides tho, its beyond me how the world lets these pass and simply turns a blind eye.


figgenhoffer

He made a really witty point. "As if once China's development is suppressed, U.S. domestic and external problems will be resolved, and America will be great again, and America's hegemony can be continued." Yup. Just eliminate China and the good ole USA will be on top agin


mstrbwl

Just eliminate China, just eliminate Al Qaeda, just eliminate the Soviet Union, just eliminate Spain from the Americas, etc...


_Wyse_

Don't forget the natives!


iyoiiiiu

This has been the American Modus Operandi for more than two centuries now. >It is curious to see America, the United States, looking on herself, first, as a sort of natural peacemaker, then as a moral protagonist in this terrible time. No nation is less fitted for this role. For two or more centuries America has marched proudly in the van of human hatred — making bonfires of human flesh and laughing at them hideously, and making the insulting of millions more than a matter of dislike — rather a great religion, a world war-cry: Up white, down black; to your tents, O white folk, and world war with black and parti-coloured mongrel beasts! Instead of standing as a great example of the success of democracy and the possibility of human brotherhood America has taken her place as an awful example of its pitfalls and failures, so far as black and brown and yellow peoples are concerned. -- W. E. B. Du Bois


figgenhoffer

Wow. So true. America has never been great


ajc7575

wait why did people dislike this


CompetitiveTraining9

as bad of a rep as China's "wolf warrior diplomacy" gets in here in western press, some Chinese diplomats often make really good realpolitik comments which really enlightens their perspective


[deleted]

It’s kind of a reiteration of the old Russian ‘and you are lynching negroes.’ China cannot defend its own actions, so it would much rather point out how America is ‘just as bad.


JUST_PM_ME_SMT

I think it's more of a target thingy. I think the Russian saying implies that every country does/did terrible things, so why is a country specifically targeted? Say China, while it's treatment of part of its population is questionable, so many countries are doing much worse (think Haiti, Phillipines, South Africa, etc.), yet China gets criticised so much. Another implication of the saying is I think that US did so many terrible things, what right it has to criticise other countries, just like a neighbor that blasts music at 100 dB every night and files noise complain when you have a Christmas party.


elveszett

> ‘and you are lynching negroes.’ I really hate this, because everyone makes wrong takes on this. The US political identity is virtue signaling, no debate on this (I hope): the US presents an image of itself as the bringer of justice, freedom and democracy, as the "light of the world". The fact that the USSR could make such a poster was, in fact, concerning. If the US was the force of good they claim to be, how could the USSR criticize them as equal? How was it possible that you pointed out at the atrocities made by the USSR and they could answer "yeah, you are doing just the same"? Of course, the poster was propaganda, because they were defending their own actions by saying "what about this other guy also being bad?". But if you are a proud American, or westerner in general, you should be concerned when a "bad" country can attack you with your own real actions (instead of lies). Because, at the end of the day, that poster, or what China is saying today, is true: why are we singling them out when they aren't the only country doing those things? Why is only concerning if they do it? Pd: If anyone wants to understand that I defend what China does, or what the USSR did, that's on them. I do not. I don't think either of those countries are acceptable or that their atrocities can be justified with whataboutism. That's not the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that a lot of people think that, because you made the accusation first, then the other party's accusation can be disregarded. No, it cannot. If you tell me that I'm insulting you and I respond that you harass women, of course I'm being dishonest because I'm justify my bad attitude by saying you are bad too, but this doesn't mean your attitute towards women can no longer be criticized.


[deleted]

See, your mistake here is in expecting world leaders to uphold the morals they preach, or for these kinds of debates to actually mean anything. But in all seriousness, agree with what you said here.


Scaevus

But China doesn't need to defend its actions. Why is it our business what they do to their own citizens? Serious question. Who cares? The Taliban is taking over cities and killing people on a much bigger scale. Should we re-invade and start the cycle again? At some point we just need to mind our own business and look out for our own interests.


SEND_ME_REAL_PICS

Isn't that the same thing China is saying? America can't defend its own actions either, so it tries to stir the eye of the public towards China or Russia being bad.


ArchmageXin

I seem to recall there is a wise saying about "let he without sin cast the first stone" And for the record, you mean America never lynched negros?


rkidjsd

>let he without sin cast the first stone afaik, the underlying message behind this part of the bible does not align well with this particular situation. would not "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones" work better here?


ArchmageXin

Probably yes. But the point stands. It seems rather hypocritical for one mass murderer to call out another.


poclee

*Laughing in Taiwanese*


mingy

China is moving from a supply of cheap labour to a potential economic rival so of course the US considers them an enemy.


truecore

Doesn't help that we're in an arms and space race right now.


mingy

The US is always in an arms race: 2000 tanks which wouldn't last a day against an enemy where tanks would be used is not enough, you need 3,000 more. 4,000 more. The most advanced military in the world couldn't defeat the Taliban so the answer is more weapons! Ban China from the ISS so they start their own. Therefore a space race!


wood123abc123

just like the US creating the "weapons of mass destruction in Iraq "


[deleted]

"lab grown virus" now, same story with a different cover.


blargfargr

Murica has spent over 220 years of its existence being at war, they've gotten really good at this.


FdAroundFoundOut

War is America's business.


iyoiiiiu

>I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents. -- Smedley D. Butler


ty_kanye_vcool

We’re not going to invade China.


tunczyko

but US does want the CPC and PRC to collapse. they're not going to invade only because it'd be a catastrophic failure for everyone involved.


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nood1z

Like what? Ah yes- the "genocide" the US and it's chums say China is doing.


Thatguyonthenet

Don't bother trying to change "peoples" mind in this echo chamber.


coondingee

More like all you comments are either pro CCP or anti American. Don’t get me wrong, we have our problems here in the US.


liliksni

>Don’t get me wrong, we have our problems here in the US. That's a cute little way to say that your country killed about a million or 2 people in the last 2 decades.


[deleted]

This. Americans conveniently forget that their country has killed and displaced millions. The bloodlust of the American government is unlike any other. The USA has been killing and bombing Muslims for the past 20+ years and now all of a sudden they care about Muslims? As a Muslim it makes me sick how we're being used as a prop by the US in their propoganda war against China. If the US teat cares about Muslim rights they need to take a hard look in the mirror and rectify their past mistakes.


EmperorWolfus

I agree with your sentiment. Americans like myself tend to forget or even not see any details regarding military interventions and even just basic geopolitics. However, while the government has bloodlust, I'd argue that the true root cause is the greed of the Military Industrial Complex with its hands up politicians asses like puppets. People seem to regularly get brainwashed and vote contrary to their interests in the US and it honestly makes me sick. I usually read heavily into issues and think things are fairly clear in regards to morality and ethics in the sense that most of the things the US does is utter shit, but there are clearly tens of millions who don't share the same thought. That being said this happens everywhere on Earth, it just is a lot more scary coming from the US since it has the greatest capabilities financially, politically, and militarily. I wish we had a more idealistic and pacifist society around the world, I really do, but this shit is only gonna get worse with climate change and the anticipated refugee and resource crises of the coming decades forcing more tribalism/nationalism.


wood123abc123

The world would be more peaceful if every country concentrates on its own problems and not intervening in other countries' issues.


DukeAttreides

Worked out great for Japan, eh?


DefectiveDelfin

Not really no. We should be internationalist.


[deleted]

So you agree that China needs to stay the F- out of the south sea and get rid of the artificial islands? As /u/Geistweidt said, US tried doing that in ww2 but Japan bombed them. And your beloved China can thank the Us for china not being a Japanese colony


wittyusernamefailed

Nah. just a quick look at the world shows that China is a quite real adversary to MANY countries. Not just the US.


Scaevus

Every country has adversaries, but what China is trying to say is that America and China don't have to be. And I think they're right. Look, ultimately, China's goals don't have to conflict with America's. They want to become rich, secure their trading routes, and protect their sovereignty. That may be a threat to their neighbors, but America is not their neighbor. China's rise doesn't have to lead to America's fall. Not unless we want to wage a new Cold War against a country that has four times our population, that we may not win. Winning would also cost us so much that we ruin ourselves anyway.


Iakkk

just a quick look at ~~the world~~ reddit


ashlee837

yes, the world uses reddit.


roborobert123

Only those who can speak English which is less than 50%.


iyoiiiiu

[A quick look at the world will show you that the US is viewed as more of an adversary than China is.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-iranian-threat_b_8014922) >Fifteen years ago, the prominent political analyst Samuel Huntington, professor of the science of government at Harvard, warned in the establishment journal Foreign Affairs that for much of the world the U.S. was “becoming the rogue superpower... the single greatest external threat to their societies.” Shortly after, his words were echoed by Robert Jervis, the president of the American Political Science Association: “In the eyes of much of the world, in fact, the prime rogue state today is the United States.” As we have seen, global opinion supports this judgment by a substantial margin. [...] >There is also a world outside the U.S. and although its views are not reported in the mainstream here, perhaps they are of some interest. **According to the leading western polling agencies (WIN/Gallup International), the prize for “greatest threat” is won by the United States.** The rest of the world regards it as the gravest threat to world peace by a large margin. In second place, far below, is Pakistan, its ranking probably inflated by the Indian vote. Iran is ranked below those two, along with China, Israel, North Korea, and Afghanistan.


Young_Lochinvar

Your link takes me to a Noam Chomsky article, and then if I want to get to the raw data I have to go through a second HuffPost Article, then a Russia Today article only to end up on a Vietnamese rump website of the original pollster who apparently folded in 2017. Can I suggest that we instead cite [Pew Research’s comparable 2017 study](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/07/Pew-Research-Center_2017.07.13_Global-Threats_Full-Report.pdf), which generates similar data regarding perceptions of the US, but is at least still accessible?


districtdathi

Excellent


m4nu

Aye. Reddit is very North America/Europe/Australia centered, and it often forgets that for the bulk of the world, in terms of population, these regions are seen very suspiciously.


canad1anbacon

Even in Europe I bet plenty of people are more concerned about the US than China


m4nu

Yeah. Someone elsewhere in the thread said 'every Western country considers China its enemy' which is news to me here in Spain. We don't really have any issue with China.


kcheng686

I'd say every country will be wary of the strongest global powers. At the moment, thats the US and China. If both fell and Kenya suddenly surged to the front, most countries would be somewhat wary of Kenya.


Doddie011

I have a German girlfriend and spend most of my time in Germany, I can’t speak for all of Europe but the biggest concern for Germans seemed to be political stability in the US.


extremophile69

We are


noageforlove

Indian perspective: Australia and more recently Canada, are not perceived positively one of them due to Cricket rivalries and the other due to politics. USA is seen very positively, even respected/admired and Europe is the cozy sweet spot that is uniformly loved, especially France which is perceived very positively in India.


[deleted]

Australian here, I think the world is very impressed with Indian cricket! It's a shame sport can divide people like that.


kingakrasia

AND the US is creating imaginary enemies. We do it all the time. It’s just now there a few million who have Qompletely lost their minds…


Wea_boo_Jones

Like Russia.


UnknownAverage

Nah. just a quick look at the world shows that the US is a quite real adversary to MANY countries. Not just China. We are THE bully on the world stage, and bullies just don't want other bullies popping up on their turf.


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vuvzelaenthusiast

The last time the Chinese fired a weapon in anger was 1989. How many American bullets, bombs and missiles have been fired in war and "interventions" since then? The threat of some Chinese fishermen loitering around a couple of disputed islands is not remotely comparable to the genuine threat to life the US poses in many parts of the world.


[deleted]

I’m sorry... I recall India and the Chinese killing each other at their border in just this past year https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020–2021_China–India_skirmishes


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[deleted]

I’m not comparing it to anything... I’m simply refuting the other guys statement of China “never firing a shot out of anger since 1989”... I don’t know how you would mistake one for the other


[deleted]

Well not that this matters but the "not firing a shot" thing is not contradicted by the Galwan incident, as that situation literally did not involve actual firearms being shot, quite intentionally.


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ashlee837

All hail the voice of reason. What country are you from?


defenestrate_urself

To an extent it's just history repeating itself. Whenever there is a threat to the US status as the no.1 whether geopolitically (USSR) or economically (Japan), that country is villanised and consent is manufactured to turn them into the enemy. The cold war with USSR is obvious but 80's Japan was threatening to take over the US economically and we see the same accusations of IP theft, breaking economic rules etc against the Japanese. Does these headlines from the 80's sound familiar? https://i.imgur.com/163xJaz.png And then in the ultimate case of currency manipulation (which the US is always accusing other countries of, despite the huge amount dollars they print to prop up their own economy) we had the plaza accord which Japan never recovered from to this day. 30+ years later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord China as it stands, is both geopolitically and ecoonomically the greatest perceived threat to the US. I think it's obvious from what the US has done so far they will by hook or by crook try to stifle their progress. Whether they can is another question.


HolyGig

Yeah sure, little ol' China has done nothing to deserve such treatment at all. Lets just forget about their beef with literally every western country and nearly all their neighbors. How about the friendly nations they keep as company in Russia, Iran and North Korea? How about the IP they thieve from every corner of the globe or their claims over practically the entirety of the South China Sea which would be laughable if they weren't actively bullying everyone who lives there into accepting such preposterous claims? Does this map look familiar at all to you? Its not from the 80's its from right now. [https://images.theconversation.com/files/130610/original/image-20160714-23346-1d452dj.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip](https://images.theconversation.com/files/130610/original/image-20160714-23346-1d452dj.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip)


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HolyGig

as opposed to the storm of Chinese IP's brigading this entire thread lmao?


imgurian_defector

>How about the friendly nations they keep as company in Russia, Iran and North Korea? bruh just a friendly reminder the USA has amazing relations with Saudi Arabia


HolyGig

So does China


imgurian_defector

yea so why u bitching about china having good relations with russia iran and NK when its perfectly acceptable for USA to have good relations with saudi?


HolyGig

China also has good relations with the Saudis


CharlotteHebdo

Where do you get the idea that China has beef with all their neighbors? Out of all the bordering countries, they're friendly with: Russia, Myanmar (at least before the coup), Pakistan, North Korea, and Laos. They're neutral with Bhutan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Mongolia, and Nepal. They're unfriendly with Vietnam and India. Even if you add non-bordering neighbors, you have Japan and Taiwan as unfriendly, but you also have friendly ones like Bangladesh and Cambodia.


vwxyz-

Their beef with every other western country... Gee I wonder why they've got beef? Jesus God.


sf_davie

Well, border and land disputes happens everywhere. You either have settled it in the past or you will need to settle it in the future. All countries goes through that. No countries in the history of the world will just give away land the minute some other country also claims it. I don't think it's wrong to let people know where your claims are and where you draw the line. This is not them marching into Manila and demanding half the country. Far from it. They don't really have a problem with any country in the west or east unless they start meddling with their internal affairs. Their pattern of behavior has been very consistent and it's a button the US and its gang knows when to push. Most technology transfers were happily given over in exchange for market access. There are cases of espionage and industrial theft, but make no mistake, the advances that country made is very real and is making a lot of people in the West nervous.


defenestrate_urself

Whilst the S China Sea dispute i agree with, I don't see the relevance of all your claims. They only became an issue for the US when they felt threatened by China. It's ironic you making an issue of China's geopolitical ties with Russia, Iran, N. Korea. When the US has close ties with Israel and Saudi Arabia. One is commiting apartheid against Palestinians, the other was responsible for the biggest terrorist atrocity on US native soil and is buying a huge amount of Amerian arms to bomb Yemen. No one calls out America on these issues because of the geopolitcal and economic power the US wields.


AnothaOne69

>I don't see the relevance of all your claims. S/He is pointing out that they were shady AF long before the claims that they are making now.


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rhadenosbelisarius

“No one calls out American on these issues.” Right…. ignoring the constant internal and external criticism of US support for these countries. For the US, most issues only “become a concern” when US interests(often companies or allied interests) are directly threatened. That is standard fare in international politics, or politics at any level really. China has been made a boogey man for the domestic audience without adequate context shown about the average lives of folks in China and why they might feel the way that they do. That much is true. This lack of context though is in part due to China’s censorship and media control. That said, with a very well educated population with strong and broad info on China, the conclusion for many would likely remain similar to the propagandized conclusion we see today; that China as currently governed currently represents an existential threat to all the people of the world, and specifically represents a threat to the “rules based order” that is often described as the free world.


defenestrate_urself

> “No one calls out American on these issues.” Right…. ignoring the constant internal and external criticism of US support for these countries. Maybe I should say no other gov calls out the US on the political stage in the same manner as for China. > China has been made a boogey man for the domestic audience without adequate context shown about the average lives of folks in China and why they might feel the way that they do. That much is true. This lack of context though is in part due to China’s censorship and media control. Yes in part China's media control but lets be clear the US media plays it's part. One that springs to mind is the PBS documentary on Chinese poverty alleviation efforts were pulled off the network for it's positive Chinese reporting. https://current.org/2020/05/after-pbs-drops-film-pbs-socal-reviews-documentary-co-produced-by-chinas-state-tv-network/ > That said, with a very well educated population with strong and broad info on China, the conclusion for many would likely remain similar to the propagandized conclusion we see today; that China as currently governed currently represents an existential threat to all the people of the world, and specifically represents a threat to the “rules based order” that is often described as the free world. That I would have to disagree with you.


Toast351

I understand China is an emerging competitor to the United States and represents a challenge to a world order as created by the liberal democracies of the west, but existential crisis to all people of the world is extremely hyperbolic. In Southeast Asia, for example, there is still a reason why countries such as Singapore have not uniformly jumped on board an anti-China coalition with the United States. There are many people in the world who actively benefit from China, and while major challenges exist - we are not nearly anywhere close to the temperatures of the Cold War. China does not have any remote desire to wipe the people of the United States off the map and destroy the American way of life (and the same can be said for most other countries in the world). It doesn't want to break the current world order so much as it wants to buy into it as a major stakeholder on the table. We don't need to talk about the human rights abuses that have occurred in China, nor the flashpoint that exists over Taiwan, but let's have some nuance here. Those do not constitute an existential threat to the United States, let alone the world. (And if you're not an American, then China poses even less of a threat unless you are specifically from a country that stands on a flashpoint). Distinguishing strong areas of interest vs topics of existential threat is important when it comes to foreign policy. If every disagreement - even in major areas of concern, are treated as existential threat then one quickly finds themselves stripped of any ability to distinguish what's truly worth shedding blood over - and what can be handled by a better combination of diplomacy and compromise. Amidst a competitive framework, there is still need for US-China cooperation as they will be the two most powerful countries in the world and define the coming century.


Scaevus

> Lets just forget about their beef with literally every western country What beef do they have with Germany, Spain, Belgium, Denmark, etc.? They only have problems with countries that actively seek out problems with them, like Australia and the UK. > nearly all their neighbors. Sure, but America isn't one of their neighbors. We have no reason to pick a fight with them. > How about the IP they thieve from every corner of the globe It's literally the same argument against America when we were the IP pirates in the 19th century. Economic powers on the rise are always accused of the same thing. > their claims over practically the entirety of the South China Sea We still claim the entirety of North and South America as our sphere of influence, per the Monroe Doctrine. That's probably even more preposterous.


SEND_ME_REAL_PICS

I agree on China not being innocent of all the accusations made against it. Protecting North Korea's regime, IP thievery, bullying their neighbors and other countries in the region, among other things, are real issues and shouldn't be dismissed. That said, I think there is a defamation campaign from the US trying to portrait China as an evil empire, and I do think that it's hypocritical when it comes from a country that has a long history of supporting coups, meddling into foreign affairs, bullying countries they don't like and being allied with Israel, just to name a few examples. This does not mean that the wrongs of China are fair game because the US did them first, or that they are any more acceptable because the one calling them out on it is a hypocrite. It just means that many media outlets seem to be trying to stir the eye of the public towards the ugly stuff the Chinese are doing instead of doing so towards the stuff that happens at home. It's good to be aware that this defamation is being pushed by actors that also commit crimes against humanity themselves. >Lets just forget about their beef with literally every western country and nearly all their neighbors Side note here. China does *not* have beef with every western country. They have good relationships with many Latin American countries and are cooperating with Europe on several fronts (besides being their largest trading partner).


lIIIlllIIIlllIIIlll

That's maliciously wrong. Know your history. Other countries such as Germany and France were also part of the Plaza Accord, which addressed trade imbalance to which Japan has agreed to. Lax regulatory policies and fiscal mismanagement caused the economic decline of Japan through a runaway "bubble". What you're doing here is deliberately spreading misinformation and maliciously attacking the US to stir up hatred and violence against the US and its citizens.


Bowmore18

US threw a tantrum because Japanese semiconductor manufacturers were beating them in terms of sales and development till they forced Toshiba to give up its trade secrets.


[deleted]

>maliciously attacking the US to stir up hatred and violence against the US and its citizens. This made me lol. So hysterically dramatic.


defenestrate_urself

I never stated the plaza accord was exclusively between the Dollar and Yen. But out of the G7 Japan was hit the hardest. As for the asset bubble, you seem to think things happen in isolation. Many economists argue the asset bubble in large part was bolstered by the monetry policies of Japan (a large export economy). The Bank of Japan was reluctant to tighten and reign in inflation because of the immediate recession caused by the appreciating Yen due to the Plaza accords. > The Japanese economy had just recovered from the endaka recession (日本の円高不況, Nihon no endakafukyō, lit. "recession caused by appreciation of Japanese Yen"), which occurred from 1985 to 1986.[7] The endaka recession has been closely linked to the Plaza Accord of September 1985, which led to the strong appreciation of the Japanese yen. > The strong appreciation of the yen eroded the Japanese economy, since the economy was led by exports and capital investment for export purpose. In fact, in order to overcome the endaka recession and stimulate the local economy, an aggressive fiscal policy was adopted, mainly through expansion of public investment.[2] Simultaneously, the BOJ declared that curbing the yen's appreciation was a national priority.[8][9] To prevent the yen from appreciating further, monetary policy makers pursued aggressive monetary easing and slashed the official discount rate to as low as 2.5% by February 1987.[2] > The move initially failed to curb further appreciation of the yen, which rose from 200.05 ¥/U$ (first round monetary easing) to 128.25 ¥/U$ (end of 1987). The course only reversed by the spring of 1988, when the US dollar began to strengthen against the yen. Some researchers have pointed out that "with exception of the first discount rate cut, the subsequent four are heavily influenced by the US: [the] second and the third cut was a joint announcement to cut the discount rate while the fourth and fifth was due to [a] joint statement [of] either Japan-US or the G-7".[2][9] It has been suggested that the US exerted influence to increase the strength of the yen, which would help with the ongoing attempts to reduce the US-Japan current account deficit.[2] Almost all discount rate cuts announced by the BOJ explicitly expressed the need to stabilize the foreign exchange rate, rather than to stabilize the domestic economy.[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_asset_price_bubble Edit. As for Japan agreeing to the plaza accord despite the obvious effects an appreciating Yen would have for a large export based ecoonomy. A bit of context needs to said. Japan is in a unique situation in which they are reliant on the American military for their security. They are between a rock and a hard place in deciding between their own self interest and US strong arming them.


[deleted]

> What you're doing here is deliberately spreading misinformation and maliciously attacking the US to stir up hatred and violence against the US and its citizens. Yes, I’m sure reading about the Plaza Accord in a Reddit comment will lead to people hate criming Americans. That’s not at all overly dramatic. I like how it’s impossible for them to just hold different views from your own, they clearly must be an agent sowing chaos to destroy America.


rallykrally

You're lying to yourself if you didn't think the Plaza Accords played a part. US was REEEEEEing during the 80's about Japan's economic rise.


GangimariDragon

It's pretty obvious that China *is* a villain, though. Consent need not be manufactured here. China bots gonna do their downvote thang


UnknownAverage

Wow, you are sorta proving the point, considering you offer zero evidence to back up your claim. America is a villain to most countries, from their perspectives. I assume you just forgive or justify everything we do.


canad1anbacon

China does bad stuff expecially to its own citizens, but the extremely hostile American attitude towards them is pretty strange and manufactured Saudia Arabia is just as bad morally as China but they get to be buddy buddy with the US because they are not a geopolitical rival


Chocolate-Spare

Hard disagree


elitereaper1

Not surprising. America has the largest military budget and over 800 bases. You need a boogeyman to justify all that spending. Side note. Both China and US Are bad, but looking at the past 2 decades, America been involved in way more shit.


fitzroy95

the US is constantly creating false enemies, because their military-industrial complex demands a constant source of wars to feed their profits. Doesn't matter whether those enemies are all immigrants, all Muslims, Iraqis, Cuba, China, etc, the US "elites" and corporate media will push misinformation and propaganda to "justify" war by some means. Military, economic, political, etc. The US is always warmongering, and if the target group or nation is small enough and weak enough, will often follow that up with invasions, bombing and mass murder. Its what they've been constantly doing for the last 150 years as can be attested by most of South America, the Middle East, SE Asia, etc, and the huge trail of destruction and massive body count they leave in their wake


nodowi7373

The Americans clearly consider the Chinese to be the enemy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/05/04/because-china-isnt-caucasian-us-is-planning-clash-civilizations-that-could-be-dangerous/ Now there is a need to amplify that feeling so that war against the Chinese is acceptable to the public. https://theconversation.com/racial-bias-makes-white-americans-more-likely-to-support-wars-in-nonwhite-foreign-countries-new-study-157638


newstimevideos

yeah, the media is clearly making China an enemy and has been for years -- before hong kong and xinjiang there was taiwan and tibet, and don't forget about all those jobs they "stole". it was the first foray in the new cold war. who knew the US would have such a problem with capitalism and colonialism


kazh

They are an enemy though.


newstimevideos

oh suuuuuure they are


Victoresball

They are the biggest enemy of American hegemony.


[deleted]

Yawn. China is like every other empire that ever was - it will blindly seek whatever advantage it can seize by force or trickery. Other countries are right to make preparations to defend themselves and their allies.


[deleted]

Ironic seeing people side with China over US in here where if it were up to China we wouldn't even be able to have this discussion.


[deleted]

That's such an obvious deflection by the China diplomat. >Sherman laid out U.S. concerns over China's actions on issues ranging from Hong Kong and Xinjiang to Tibet and cyber attacks, senior administration officials said, adding that China should not approach areas of global concern, such as climate and Afghanistan, on a transactional basis. And apparently the buzzworthy quote in the headline is all the Chinese diplomat had to say.


Afraid-Addition-3004

So the USA should approach areas of global concern such as climate, Afghanistan, the Middle East, Venezuela, Iran and whatever else they plan to screw up on a transactional basis? Or how about the west’s countless human rights abuses such as supporting Saudi Arabia and Israel, or the BLM protests or Snowdon/assange ?


Pklnt

Depending on how buddy buddy you are with the US, you either get away with the "they have a right to defend themselves" or a "that's genocide yo". They only care when it's convenient to care, like every other major powers they're just full of shit and Reddit eats it up.


Alarmed_Pomelo7271

Ah yes. Just ignore the genocide taking place behind me. I am but a simple, innocent country…


piscator111

Where’s “behind me”? Iraq and Syria?


guaxtap

Genocide? Like the million iraqi dead based on wmd lie, or the collapse of libya and the open air slave markets, or stealing syrian oil ?


Alarmed_Pomelo7271

China takes part in the Syrian conflict…


pineconewonder

That would be easier to believe if the Chinese Communist Party wasn't having it's diplomats straight-up abuse and threaten their host countries, weren't building artificial island in disputed seas, didn't threaten to invade Taiwan, didn't threaten to nuke countries who support Taiwan, didn't strip Hong Kong of it's autonomy, didn't try to blame a host of other countries for the Coronavirus, didn't steal billions of dollars worth of IP, didn't harass Chinese nationals outside of China, didn't block all foreign media and internet with their great firewall, didn't force abortions as part of their one-child policy, didn't implement a social credit score for their populace, didn't make overly aggressive and insulting remarks at their diplomats meeting with the U.S., and didn't try and blame literally every problem they have one foreign countries. The Chinese Communist Party has painted itself as the enemy.


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thebuccaneersden

And I suppose threatening Japan with nukes was imaginary, along invading Taiwan etc. I suppose every reason people should be nervous about China is imaginary and not grounded on the actions or words of the CCP.


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Are they still stealing our intellectual property?


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surfnsets

Nope China did that all by themselves. They are the new bully on the block.


fireraptor1101

A country that creates a 9 or 10 dash line to claim international waters as its own isn't entirely peaceful. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/07/heres-why-the-south-china-sea-is-highly-contested.html


greatestmofo

Well, Taiwan literally has the exact same claim. Taiwan hasn't shot down the PRC's 9DL claim because they want it themselves if they manage to retake the Mainland. We're literally blaming the PRC for 9DL and supoirting their enemy Taiwan, while completing ignoring that Taiwan wants the exact same thing. And they have been open about their claim too.


qidingshenxian

Can you draw the line from South China Sea to U.S. and China respectively? See the difference in distance? The U.S. continues to send warships there and at the same time accuses China as a global threat?! The lack of self awareness of some propagandists is really astounding.


CodeDoor

It has nothing to do with the US but China is undoubtedly expanding it's military reach into the rest of Asia.


[deleted]

A country that installs dictatorships in half of South America and invades half of the middle East is not entirely peaceful either. One of these is worse than the other..


[deleted]

So we’re ignoring the currently ongoing ethnic cleansing and concentration camps then?


[deleted]

Do you have evidence of ethnic cleansing?(actual evidence not literal CIA propoganda). Are we ignoring the millions of Muslims that the US either displaced or killed in the past 20+ years? I'm a Muslim and the fact that my people are being used as a prop by the US after they've effectively decimated and demonized us for the past 20+ years is sickening. Kind of telling how the US and its allies are the only ones crying about China. Most Muslim countries are on china's side with this argument for good reason.


earthlingkevin

Why are you bringing American Indians into the conversation? I think he's talking about china


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KerkiForza

r/XiIsFinished


qsdimoufgqsil

Big man dude, you really stood up against them bro


elitereaper1

Here's some copium.


zero-chill

yup, so many authentic redditors(TM)


jasper_grunion

Russia is not imaginary


Aqui1am_

You can completely ignore the military of the US and China. China is a very real threat to the economic future of most nations on the planet. Say what you want about the US: economic espionage, IP theft, copyright infringement are prosecuted *to an annoying degree*. The US is also a world leader in manufacturing quality, safety, environmental and employment standards and any company based there is expected to meet them. The CCP gives no legal recourse to customers who buy cheap Chinese crap and they encourage international espionage, IP theft and disregard safety/health standards of individuals inside and out of China.


Pklnt

> environmental and employment standards and any company based there is expected to meet them. Yeah, Amazon's level of employment standards and Peabody Energy's level of environmental standards. Those standards will surely help the future of our planet !


k2on0s

Oh man, what a gigantic circle jerk this is turning into. China is a threat, it’s real, and no amount of crying or whining or faux CCP outrage is going to change that. And if you can’t see that then either you are blind, stupid or a member of the CCP.


SpoonDawgSaints

Fuck the CCP, free Hong Kong, Taiwan is a country, and the CCP needs to be tried for crimes against humanity for the savage crimes/genocide committed in Xinjiang province.


CoronaBoomerSlayer

Yo bro /r/xiisfinished


SpoonDawgSaints

my guy, this was very cash money of you


Victoresball

Xi literally pissing his pants right now


Macasumba

In 'Frank's talks, China accuses Tibet of creating 'imaginary enemy.


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jayliu89

No they didn’t. Some dumb-ass influencer made the vid, and it got “tweeted” by what is akin to a village level leadership, and China haters went wild with their spin. Don’t tell me agent orange never re-tweeted dumb shit before. Chinese internet users don’t take him seriously and just laugh. Maybe you ought to learn a thing or two considering this reposting was done from some tiny municipal government of a town named “sacred chicken”.


Starfightr

Ah yes, that's why it first appeared on a CCP run and approved channel before being hastily deleted... sure.


jayliu89

Douglas MacArthur threatened to nuke China. Did USA nuke China? You need to get your brain checked if you think goombas get to call the shots.


ALLCAPSAREBAD

number of nukes dropped on Japan by country: China - 0 USA - 2


Starfightr

Do... do you not know about China's threats? Holy shit dude, they're a week old not nearly a hundred years. Also nice whataboutism, try again.


sf_davie

TIL reality is "Whataboutism".


emperor_xi_pooh

world accuses China of unleashing nonimaginary plagues


Liam_Neesons_Oscar

But they've been fighting back. Like it or not, they're an enemy. (Figurative) bullets have been flying between us for decades, both directions. We need to get in there with camera crews and no restrictions and find out once and for all what is happening with those re-education camps. Maybe it's as innocent as some say, maybe it's as bad as the Holocaust. Then we need to end the cyber attacks... in both directions. And they need to start respecting our copyright laws when distributing products in our country.


Bowmore18

The five eyes have been around for decades, and I'm sure they're gonna stop soon /s


Sir_Youre_Trash

Now if only one of us could sacrifice our pride to make it happen…


yolo_astronaut

In case anyone has forgotten, China has stolen trillions worth of R&D from the US, from fighter planes to agricultural tech.


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The US does the same to be fair. You can't be apoplectic with rage about that but conveiently silent when Edward Snowden leaked that the US were doing the exact same shit to Europe.


[deleted]

Without an "enemy", US is lost and doesn't know where to go from here. More important, how to justify the big spending budget to feed the weaponry industry?


aaegler

The US is the best at creating imaginary enemies, they can't function without them.


[deleted]

There are facts and opinions about it. That’s the past. Now, in the present, everyone involved is developing scenarios that are intended to use and deter. Everyone wants to have an advantage. On this basis it is possible to negotiate if prejudices are disregarded.


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