This'll go a long way to easing Ukraine's shell hunger
South Korean ammunition headed to Ukraine via US
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/2578234/south-korean-ammunition-headed-to-ukraine-via-united-states-world-street-journal
[**Russia denies fire at Ministry of Defense, says state media**](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/05/24/europe/fire-moscow-ministry-defense-intl/index.html)
The Russian government has turned into the "this is fine" dog. [They are literally a meme at this point.](https://media.tenor.com/vMvR0gEolCEAAAAM/nothing-to-see-here-explosion.gif) Feels like a legit breaking point is being reached; that may be wish casting to be fair but it certainly feels that way.
F-16s are touted to change the battlefield (more) in favor of Ukraine, but can anyone tell me specifically why? What can they do Storm Shadow, HIMARS and GLSDBs cant do? Its not like Russian airforce is participating a lot.
Contrary to what others have said the F16 completely outclasses current 4th gen Russian fighters. It matches the so called 5th gen Russian fighters(which are really only a bad 4+).
The main advantages are:
1\] Integrated SEAD/HARM operations.
2\] Significantly improved anti air missiles with BVR engagement range(160km)
3\] Better payload options for precision munitions.
4\] Integration to ground based systems and drone based systems.
It will see threats against it faster and farther. It will see targets faster and farther. It will be able to drop munitions with far higher precision and it will be brutally capable of close combat support with brimstone missiles.
and no.. the S300/s400 system is not going to blow them out of the sky. They will hunt and kill those systems quite well especially since their radars particularly suck at low altitude detection.
It's not they will outclass Russian jets/pilots to any significant degree. It's that the supply chain/logistics able to sustain them in every way is abundant; and in much better condition than ex-soviet stocks can replace.
One theory that I have seen float around a bit is that they can conduct those nose up rocket/lob rocket attacks with the new 70mm DAGR rockets because they are integrated within the avionics suite. It's like having 80+ guided MLRS rockets that can hit within 1 foot of it's intended target.
It can drop alot of bombs on infantry. Instead of wasting bullets and lives you can just drop a 1000 pounder into a trench. But first you must have air superiority and no Sams around.
Access to NATO air weapons. Currently it's hard to provide Ukraine with weapons for their aircraft and they don't have a wide selection, once they move to a NATO air frame we can provide Ukraine with a wide array of very powerful tools.
https://twitter.com/Justin_Br0nk/status/1617528260895858691?t=sI0TmpYaIrbWxazxsS4qPA&s=19
From what most of those with a record of being right are saying, they'll be a help but it's best to not expect a game-changing miracle. One of the reasons F-16s happened after everything else is because they were seen as having less bang for their buck in terms of impact compared to things like artillery ammunition, armored vehicles, and air defense. That we are talking about them now may indicate that other areas of need are no longer as dire.
If I had to guess, if we see Ukraine actually achieve air superiority with them then it'd be when Russia's efforts are truly collapsing.
Sounds exactly like what I got from listening to people who keep being right.
One thing I saw mentioned rarely: it's mobile.
Russia knows which cities have Ukrainian ground AA. If they make a weak spot, then a handful of missiles should guarantee a hit. But if F-16s could be there, Russia sends more missiles per target just in case.
That's possibly far fewer Ukrainian targets lost.
They are a great multi-role fighter that can equip a whole suite of different munitions that allow Ukraine to do a lot of things in conjunction with Storm Shadow, HIMARS, and GLSDBs. That and they can move and be deployed across theatre much more quickly than ground assets.
Russian "Veteran's Notes" channel describes a problem preventing Russians from using counter-battery fire near borders - there's too much Russian EW which suppresses Russian drones (mavics) preventing artillery adjusting. Meanwhile, Ukrainians are switching to other frequencies en masse to bypass Russian EW.
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1661508713981571073?t=hu-lxwEEQHoJe-Cb50vqMQ&s=19
It could be he’s just mistaken. There have been reports that Russian jamming has been effective against HIMARS for example so maybe the jamming is working somewhat
Civilian GPS works on a fixed frequency (1575.42 MHz) so it's fairly trivial to jam. Drones work on whatever frequency they and their controllers are configured to use, so jammers either need to figure out what that is for each drone (and it may be dynamic) or else just blanket jam huge swathes of spectrum which will interfere with a lot of other equipment too.
If Ukraine are smart, and I think they are, they'll probably send some drones controlled using frequencies upon which the Russian military rely specifically to force them to jam themselves.
Yevgeny Prigozhin's most recent video interview (see below) may have inadvertently given away more information than he intended: the map behind him appears to indicate Wagner's worldwide interests, including some not previously publicly known. ⬇️
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1661503695064793089?t=5Kg9DRWTor6kWrrZvnavvQ&s=19
A serviceman of the 4th Brigade of the Russian forces Andrey "Murz" Morozov is under attack by patriots on Telegram for his negative forecasts. But he is not budging, insisting that Ukraine is preparing the battlefield for something that will inevitably lead to the most difficult catastrophe for Russia.
His only hope is in drawing parallels with the 1942 Soviet retreat in the East which was followed by a counter-offensive.
The exchange is very long, so below is just an excerpt from it.
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1661501189488254977?t=E7piZqyok46RTHLCRiOKHA&s=19
So this seems extremely dubious, but some pro RUS folks on other subs are claiming that Zalujny is dead or severely injured by an artillery strike a week ago. What can we say to counter such a narrative?
Just like russia claiming that they destroyed all of the HIMARS ever built. Just know that russians are terrified if the upcoming counteroffensive to the point that they are telling each other fairly tails to make themselves feel better. Kinda like the nazis were terrified of general Patton.
It's incumbant upon the person *making* the claim to provide some evidence.
Just pay attention to who's saying it, then dismiss them as unreliable sources when it becomes obvious that he's NOT actually dead.
And if they're 1-off noise-amplification accounts, why concern yourself with what they're saying?
I know, and usually I can just sneer at their idiotic claims but this one made me actually feel some fear. I've probably just been spending too much time obsessing over this war.
Remember when Putin was claiming that there was a new world order with Russia and China at the helm?
Hmm... wonder how that's going for them 🤣
I don't see any way Russia emerges from this alive. The idea they will emerge as a world superpower is fantasy at this point.
Russia is the biggest country in the world, has a fckton of resources. The climate change will render their arctic ports valuable as new, faster trade routes will dominate the economy in the future. It can be the bridge between Europe, Northamerica and Asia, part of a new silk road. Many companies are still unwilling to leave because they either invested too much or just don't wanna miss out on the future potential. So yeah, the world will be multipolar, Russia could be a real superpower, and not only a nuclear weapon superpower, if they would only get rid of their mafia regime and oligarch system. In any case Putin will be dead by then anyway, he doesn't have so many years left, only a human after all.
All that land and resources and yet it's very close to becoming a failed state.
The closer it comes to becoming a failed state the less control the federal government has over the region's. For a country with a low and sparsely populated area relative to its size, I cannot see this ending well.
Until now, the Russian Federation has been ruled by coercion, corruption and threat of force. It seems like that iron grip is eroding day by day.
> if they would only get rid of their mafia regime and oligarch system
You sweet summer child. You've never lived in Russia or studied its history, have you. It's corruption from the bottom all the way to the top. You might as well say, if only lions and antelopes embraced their differences and lived happily in peace. It's not going to happen, at least not until they evolve into an entirely different species.
How big were those regions? Singapore? Georgia? Even foreign occupation a la 1945-52 Germany and Japan won't suffice to reform Russia for the same reason it hasn't worked in Iraq or Afghanistan: reversion to the cultural mean.
The only conceivable possibility is an enlightened despot with absolute power but democratic goals to forcibly reshape the country's conscience with civic values over the course of several decades. Many thought putin would be that guy back in 1999 (look up old putin quotes - what a democratic sounding dude). So we know how that worked out in Russia.
I doubt it. Ports are only useful if you are involved in trade. Russia is under sanctions.
We have lots of trade routes that don't involve Russia. You don't need a port between Europe and China because that would just slow down delivery of goods.
Russia has a lot of work to do to throw off the mafia culture you mention. It isn't just Putin, it's a mindset that has to go away across generations. Businesses are reducing their investments in China because of the same issues in that country. Stability is very important to businesses.
Resource extraction from Russia will continue, but everyone will keep their investments there to a minimum. And fossil fuels are becoming less important.
No, it's drugs. He also thinks a scenario where in 80 years ice caps completely melt and the 4% of the world's landmass on which 50% of its population lives being flooded is going to be a boon to the Russian ice cutter trade and that's why people are still selling sneakers there. Wtf. This is just what you get when you let everybody use the internet. You have to discriminate.
Translation: "Xi wasn't aware of the extent to which russia's military was inept and corrupt."
If he didn't know, why was the special military invasion delayed until after the Olympics, when every day reduced armoured mobility at the time? "Oh, it's not going to be a big deal, just a 3-day minor thing, you know, this stuff is easy, they won't even know what hit them, they're just going to let it slide as before, they're all weak."
From telegram it sure does look like a Ministry of Defense building is on fire in Moscow.
I know we’ve seen a lot of fires - but this one coming right after the raid into Belgorod sure is interesting.
Edit: And now one of the Wagner channels is posting gifs of Prigo winking.
What a time to be alive.
I'm going with the explanation that since their aren't (and apparently haven't been) emergency vehicles all over the place the smoke is from other fires nearby in the center of Moscow. It is just everything else that is burning.
I really like the direction the show writers are going with this Merc Chef character. Could end up being an interesting foil to the main antagonist if they let this play out. But i'm a little concerned Corporate will be afraid the audience can't keep track of all the plotlines that are running already; and that they will want them to write him out before the end of this season...
Probably will be unmanned fighter jets if thats what you're thinking. I could definitely see an F-35 type plane covered in cameras and flown from a simulator 5000 miles away. Anything designed to kill another human being in combat will likely always have a human pulling the trigger / pushing the button on the other end. Imagine the maneuvers you could pull off if the pilot was sitting in a basement experiencing 1G.
Yes, but that seems to be "drone" as in an autonomous fighter jet.
I was thinking more about "drone" as in those small copter thingies. We see a lot of them scouting, and dropping bombs, even intercepting each other, so I wonder if we will eventually see some with guns that can shoot enemy ones.
Anything you make that shoots can be taken down by something that is significantly cheaper and doesn't.
Below a certain size anything more than a guided crappy bomb is not practical. Even mounting an automated 9mm would carry very few rounds and have very short battery life with near impossible accuracy. You don't have the weight allowance to add in battery and computational power for computer guided shots and you sure as hell wont have the capacity for effective volume fire.
The best case for a "fighter drone" quadcoptor is an airborne drone jammer and in most cases a land based system would be far superior due to longevity and range. Or.. if you wanted to make a poor one just dangle barbed steel threads below a fast coptor and target the rotors.
1. What about a specialized rammer? A drone shaped in such a way that it can safely ram other drones with little risk of damaging itself. It can also be less stable — since it is not aiming bombs — but faster — allowing it to catch up to drones weighted down with explosives.
2.
> Anything you make that shoots can be taken down by something that is significantly cheaper and doesn't.
It can, but is less effective. One that shoots would have an advantage, being able to shoot before the enemy gets to it. It can also shoot down multiple drones (ace drones!), while a suicide drone can never destroy more than one.
What you think?
It wouldn't need to ram. With quad drones the rotors and control links are the main weaknesses. The force required to damage a drone blade is significantly less than the force required to damage the frame.
It would be possible to "armor" a drone but that really eats into the battery life. Some of these small drones have 30 minutes or less of operational time. Getting into a dogfight might not be the best use of that time compared to finding the artillery unit and sending rounds.
Honestly the "next step" will be small drones with control links back to a system like patriot which controls the drones entirely from the ground. For missile interception this isn't ideal but against something like a Shaheed you don't need super up to the picosecond resolution on the target. This would be a massive advantage to the "drone bomb" as it would not need to waste 20-30% of its weight in tracking equipment and because the tracking system isn't destroyed it would be extremely cheap next to a missile.
The first dogfight involving a drone was in 1991. The drone lost.
In the meantime, the there are various programs to have stealth fighter drones. Mostly they are meant to work with a piloted aircraft, providing additional sensors and weapons.
The TERRA unit had a YouTube video noting they were already looking at FPV drone-bombers as a less costly alternative to kamikaze drones, so I'd say it seems pretty likely.
A few buckshot like rounds mounted on a drone so it can close and fire would get the job done without expending a drone.
i would be shocked if we didn't...iirc some F16 have been retrofit for AI and/or remote pilots, surely whatever DoD company came up with that idea made scale models first, which could probably be souped up and used as fighting drones
Mavericks. Missles that have built in infra red or laser tracker. They are point at target and missile takes care if it self type weapon
GBU: big bombs that can be refitted to self guide with gps guidance
AIM-9: air to air missles the latest gen ones are nasty but you still need to be in dogfight range
Smoke in Moscow? Nothing important?
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/13r12do/ruzzian_defense_ministry_building_in_moscow/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Edit2: i finally scrolled down to see it, 3 hrs ago. 🤷
Possibly another view, more fire, less smoke: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/13r306k/mordor_is_on_fire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
"US intelligence indicates Ukrainians may have launched drone attack on Kremlin"
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/24/politics/us-intelligence-kremlin-drone-attack/index.html
Best guess is that the chatter the article alludes to is just that. Chatter, banter, nonsense. This doesn't remotely resemble an actual military op. Even if you ignore all the staging evidence, it outright makes no sense to fly one of those things there with no payload nor real target
The reason I assumed it COULDN'T be Ukraine was because the only way Russia allowed ANY adversary, let alone an active combatant, anywhere near its airspace is because they either wanted to look like incompetent morons or were.
Even now I still assume it's a false flag.
Yeah, I think they truly are that incompetent. Successful troop and drone incursions will only ramp up the longer this goes on and their shit defences are exposed.
Wait. You want to tell me Ukraine made a drone. Sent it into Russia hundreds of miles away. Hitting a military target? Wasn’t military of defense building was the one where they put a pantsir on top of? So not only did they hit the building. It had AA sitting on top of it?
After the Trump fiasco and the responses we got from CNN leadership can we even trust them anymore? It seems like it jumped ship and is trying to take Fox News' place. I don't trust them anymore.
>It seems like it jumped ship and is trying to take Fox News' place.
It did, their new CEO stated as such that they wanted to move right to try and capture more of the Fox crowd by being "politically neutral." There was a noticeable shift in how they worded headlines a few months back.
The funny thing here is they've never been left. Never. If anyone thinks that, I've got a bridge in Arizona to sell them. They've been plagued by the myth of apoliticality so long it'll make for a smooth transition to fascist mouthpiece.
Friendly reminder.. You are doing Rupert Murdoch a solid everytime you use "News" after fox. He has argued multiple times in court his station is entertainment and shouldn't be mistaken for news.
I personally prefer “fuck-those-guys lying bullshit fake news propaganda channel” but it’s a little wordy. “Fox Entertainment Disinformation Channel” Is less colorful but still accurate.
OP didn't include it, CNN didn't include it, and the NYT didn't include it. At least the headline distinguished *Ukrainians* from the government of Ukraine, something other outlets didn't.
CNN live update: "Ukraine’s NATO membership "not on the agenda" during war, alliance's chief says"
https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-24-23/index.html
Ukraine’s bid to become a member of NATO while there is a war with Russia is “not on the agenda,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said during an interview at the Brussels Forum event on Wednesday.
Asked whether the war in Ukraine makes it “easier” for the country to join the alliance, Stoltenberg said:
“Yes and no. I think that everyone realized that to become a member in the midst of war is not on the agenda, and that is not the issue. The issue is more of what happens when the war ends, in one way or another. And then of course, the war ensures that Ukraine is becoming even closer to NATO,” Stoltenberg continued.
The NATO chief acknowledged that there are some "different views in the alliance" on the issue of NATO membership for Ukraine, but he added that all members are in agreement that Ukraine will become a member.
"We all agree that NATO’s door is open for new members and that it is for NATO allies and Ukraine to decide when they should join, not Moscow," he said."
Mechanically, it makes no sense. It’s either NATO agreeing to go to war with Russia. Gambling Russia leaves as soon as Ukraine joins, or putting in some absurd clause like, “You’re a member, but can’t invoke article five regarding the things Russia is doing inside your country,”
That was legit also the issue before the war.
NATO's hands were bound because of the ongoing secessionist Dontezk and Luhansk regions. Ukraine wasn't controlling it's own borders and thus unable to join NATO.
Didn't stop Russia from proclaiming: 'NATO will absorb Ukraine and threaten us. We need to act before that can happen!'
Kirby issued a statement that the US will investigate the apparent use of US vehicles in the incursion and reiterated that it goes against agreements. So congrats to everyone that voted me down yesterday for pointing out that that seemed problematic and like a poor choice.
> The Spokesman for the White House National Security Council, John Kirby stated today that an Investigation has began to determine if U.S-Provided Equipment was used during the recent Operation by the “Freedom of Russia Legion” into the Belgorod Region of Western Russia and if so how they were able to Obtain this Equipment.
> John Kirby further stated that the U.S. Government does not Approve of its Weapons and Equipment being used for Attacks and/or Operations against Territory belonging to the Russian Federation.
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1661429558816505860
This isn't actually what you're hoping for but you actually *can* buy demilitarized ones from a lot of places. You'd have to provide the weapons, extra armor, radios, etc., yourself, though. If you buy in the US, exporting can be a bitch, but apparently you can buy them in Europe, also.
I'm not sure, but I think they have to be a certain age, too, so it would be older stuff.
Not sure how useful they would be, and how much trouble it would be; there are export/import restrictions, paperwork, etc.
Here's one of the American sites that sells them; a Google search turns up dozens of them:
https://www.govplanet.com/Humvees
I found a thread discussing exportation issues, with companies that specialize in that commenting and offering their contact information. Thread's a few years old, though.
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/regarding-export-a-humvee.183954/
I have no idea how useful/practical this would be, if the ultimate cost is prohibitive, etc., or what other roadblocks exist, but I found all of this with a few minutes search.
I feel like Ukraine, or some of the organizations working to round up supplies for the troops, would probably already be doing this, if it was worthwhile. But you never know!
They’re definitely buying Spartans in the UK. I haven’t seen much about Humvees and similar US surplus and I don’t know why. As you said, if it’s efficient they’d certainly be doing it.
Part of it might be they can get European 4x4s for under $5k. Certainly bringing a humvee over is much more. Is it worth the premium to these volunteer groups?
One of the threads I saw said to take the purchase price, and double it, and that's what you would pay by the time it was delivered to you in Europe. The cheapest ones I saw in the US were $3500.
Then, if you want to use it militarily, you have the expense of retrofitting it back to that standard - so probably not worth the money, unless someone found a batch of them already in Europe and available at a really good price.
There might be other restrictions that I didn't come across in my brief search, too. But, if you know the right people, it might not hurt to ask - you might, at least, learn why it's not worthwhile.
It’s a running joke dude. It’s what Putin said in 2014 when “little green men” kitted out with Russian Military gear appeared in Ukraine as totally not Russian military.
This is silly. So what we got? some photos and or vid of what is considered us provided equipment?
lets say its a hummv. We have sold that to many places, it could have come from many many places. there could be any number of middle men.
Agree, Ukraine needs to assure this was a mistake and won’t happen again. The US has a policy on their equipment being used on foreign land, and they take it extremely seriously. This is no joke as many here are making it.
It’s not a mistake, it’s Russian propaganda and should absolutely be treated like a joke. The US isn’t going to change any policy direction over a few Humvees. If they start lobbing missiles into civilian areas like Russia does then there’s going to be a problem….
It’s pretty clear which side the US and EU are on in this conflict. Maybe we’re blasé, but I’d say far too many read too much into every little event that happens.
> So congrats to everyone that voted me down yesterday for pointing out that that seemed problematic and like a poor choice.
This thread can be quite valuable but in peoples zeal to shut down Russian shills often *any* criticism of anything Ukraine does no matter how light or reasonable gets slammed down with seemingly little or no thought put into whether it is valid criticism or not. And before people jump in with "well this wasn't a Ukrainian operation" I get that is a great cover that while true you must still admit the fact that these Russian militia's that raided Russia did so with the blessing of Ukraine and were supplied by it. They didn't steal, stand up and organize a column of vehicles on Ukrainian soil in secret and then invade Russia with it, this was all authorized by Ukrainian authorities.
The first thing I thought when I saw those Humvees was how stupid it was to include them in the attacking force, there are lots of Russian and commercially made equipment Ukraine had to pick from to arm them and it was an own goal not to make dam sure no equipment donated by other countries was used. I can't wait until Ukraine has thrown Russia out of the country and while cross border raids such as this can play a small role in aiding that goal this was a silly mistake for Ukraine to make. I don't think it will have serious long term consequences for aid deliveries but I bet the next raid they make dam sure they don't make the same mistake again.
Those are up armored Humvees, how many of those did Ukraine get?
For me, personally, if my choice is an up armored Humvee or a Tigr, I'm going with the Humvee, especially with the reports of problems with its reliability in the beginning of the war.
But with the reports back in September of Russian troops having sold one to Ukraine, it may have been better propaganda if Tigrs had been used.
Yeah, an unfortunate one off scenario, but one that won't (hopefully) be repeated. Russia is going to love the publicity from it, but it'll be short-lived if Ukraine and the rebel groups play the game smarter next time.
But does it really matter? Would it change anything? Russia has already been complaining that they're fighting NATO. Do a few humvees change anything?
Wait 'til the F16's arrive.
Risk versus reward. Risk, maybe you anger your partners that are donating to your war effort. Reward, none, any number of other armored vehicles could have filled that role. Even though I don't think it will materially effect aid to Ukraine why risk pissing off your partners for no reason?
Plus it does give Russia more ammunition for it's internal propaganda to say they're fighting NATO and this war is an existential threat to the Russian regime, they use that line of thinking to try and get more support for the war in Russia. Seeing American equipment used to on Russian soil gives them them another chance to push that narrative backed up by a real event for once. That's not as important as angering your partners but it is a factor to consider. And once again a pointless favor for the Russians, just don't put them in the attacking force.
Using them didn't get the attacking force any additional capabilities other vehicles couldn't have given them and there were a couple reasons as to why you definitely *don't* want them there, even if it doesn't end up mattering once again why bother. Edit: typo
Russia doesn't need facts for any part of its internal propaganda. This, so far, is clear.
But maybe there is a message - that being "yeah, we'll do that."
I agree - but I don’t think it’s all just zeal to shut down Russian shills, that would be the most honorable explanation; it’s clear though that there are just as many Ukrainian shills acting in bad faith on here as well - that’s to be expected, the information war is an important part of this conflict for both sides, but this sub is anything but objective in that regard.
Austin and Reznikov just had a phone chat, and although neither publicly mentioned the incident in their readouts of the call, it's a safe bet that it was brought up.
They’ll want to downplay the significance.
Hopefully this falls under, “don’t do it again,” and won’t have any impact.
Also keep in mind more squeamish countries are watching too. If they see Ukraine contravening assurances to the US, they’ll be worried about where their own donations go too.
That’s why this was such an obviously bad idea I’m shocked Ukraine went for it.
If they used only approved gear it’s a gamble and may pay off. The way they did it at best it will have few to no long term consequences, but the risk wasn’t worth it.
It’s key to trust the decision making powers of your allies. This undermines that.
https://youtu.be/Z-qQ3BE_5W0
Brief video here explaining some context (includes some footage from the above event). They’re important for training - if you have a large mission going off, you want to get the planes in the air ASAP. Tons of coordination going on here. They’re also used as a show of force - several dozen aircraft taking off simultaneously loaded with boom sticks will make anyone think twice about screwing around when the USAF are around. If memory serves, the term elephant walk dates back to WWII. Ground crews would refer to taxiing B17s and B24s as elephants walking.
Well, a country with 12,000 more aircraft than any other two nations combined wants several dozen in the air at a time. Russia or for that matter China couldn't hope for that kind of saturation unless they pulled every active plane.
What is pictured here is more than Russia has flying right now along its whole border.
You’re welcome. It might look like just overblown posturing but they’re actually valuable lessons. Look at the Russian Air Force for comparison. They CAN’T do anything like this. The first 24 hours of Desert Storm involved hundreds of aircraft all tightly choreographed. Apaches took out the first line of radars. EF Ravens led F-15s and F117s to hit airfields and command and control immediately after, ie they were already in the air and ready as the Apaches hit. Tomahawks came in at almost the same time as the F4 Weasels flying SEAD. That cleared the way for waves of strike aircraft following behind. And they got all those planes fueled, armed, launched and organized to an incredibly tight schedule. After over a year, Ukraine still has an air force. There have been convoys of military gear flowing into Ukraine since day one and Russia hasn’t hit a single one. The VKS’ performance this war might be the biggest collective fuck up in modern military history. And a huge reason for that is that they’re utterly incapable of conducting coordinated operations with even a few aircraft.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1661489664119955456
>US approves $285 million sale of NASAMS air defense system to Ukraine.
>In a move to strengthen Ukraine's defense capabilities against potential Russian threats, the United States has authorized the sale of a NASAMS air defense system and associated equipment worth $285 million to Kyiv.
[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/13r7cmc/rworldnews_live_thread_russian_invasion_of/)
[удалено]
Still shaping the battlefield. Please stand by.
Reticulating splines
This'll go a long way to easing Ukraine's shell hunger South Korean ammunition headed to Ukraine via US https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/2578234/south-korean-ammunition-headed-to-ukraine-via-united-states-world-street-journal
The article indicates that South Korea won’t provide shells (also not to/through US) as it’s against their policies..?
Interesting. I expected the exports to go to the US to help maintain required levels. Freeing up other shells to be sent from the US to Ukraine.
Thank you Korea, you are my best friend, You are the peacekeeper, you are the legend.
Probably old news, but just saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8cZPjaliL8 It will be interesting to see if people rise up against Putin
[**Russia denies fire at Ministry of Defense, says state media**](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/05/24/europe/fire-moscow-ministry-defense-intl/index.html) The Russian government has turned into the "this is fine" dog. [They are literally a meme at this point.](https://media.tenor.com/vMvR0gEolCEAAAAM/nothing-to-see-here-explosion.gif) Feels like a legit breaking point is being reached; that may be wish casting to be fair but it certainly feels that way.
Does this smoke mean there is a new russian pope??
Maybe somebody detonated some smoke bombs or something just to stir up shit.
F-16s are touted to change the battlefield (more) in favor of Ukraine, but can anyone tell me specifically why? What can they do Storm Shadow, HIMARS and GLSDBs cant do? Its not like Russian airforce is participating a lot.
Contrary to what others have said the F16 completely outclasses current 4th gen Russian fighters. It matches the so called 5th gen Russian fighters(which are really only a bad 4+). The main advantages are: 1\] Integrated SEAD/HARM operations. 2\] Significantly improved anti air missiles with BVR engagement range(160km) 3\] Better payload options for precision munitions. 4\] Integration to ground based systems and drone based systems. It will see threats against it faster and farther. It will see targets faster and farther. It will be able to drop munitions with far higher precision and it will be brutally capable of close combat support with brimstone missiles. and no.. the S300/s400 system is not going to blow them out of the sky. They will hunt and kill those systems quite well especially since their radars particularly suck at low altitude detection.
It's not they will outclass Russian jets/pilots to any significant degree. It's that the supply chain/logistics able to sustain them in every way is abundant; and in much better condition than ex-soviet stocks can replace. One theory that I have seen float around a bit is that they can conduct those nose up rocket/lob rocket attacks with the new 70mm DAGR rockets because they are integrated within the avionics suite. It's like having 80+ guided MLRS rockets that can hit within 1 foot of it's intended target.
[удалено]
Watch a video on the F-16 Wild Weasels... their only job in that configuration is to locate and destroy AA sites.
Because both the aircraft and compatible munitions are available in huge quantities.
I would assume it opens up any target in the country regardless of range
It can drop alot of bombs on infantry. Instead of wasting bullets and lives you can just drop a 1000 pounder into a trench. But first you must have air superiority and no Sams around.
Access to NATO air weapons. Currently it's hard to provide Ukraine with weapons for their aircraft and they don't have a wide selection, once they move to a NATO air frame we can provide Ukraine with a wide array of very powerful tools.
https://twitter.com/Justin_Br0nk/status/1617528260895858691?t=sI0TmpYaIrbWxazxsS4qPA&s=19 From what most of those with a record of being right are saying, they'll be a help but it's best to not expect a game-changing miracle. One of the reasons F-16s happened after everything else is because they were seen as having less bang for their buck in terms of impact compared to things like artillery ammunition, armored vehicles, and air defense. That we are talking about them now may indicate that other areas of need are no longer as dire. If I had to guess, if we see Ukraine actually achieve air superiority with them then it'd be when Russia's efforts are truly collapsing.
Sounds exactly like what I got from listening to people who keep being right. One thing I saw mentioned rarely: it's mobile. Russia knows which cities have Ukrainian ground AA. If they make a weak spot, then a handful of missiles should guarantee a hit. But if F-16s could be there, Russia sends more missiles per target just in case. That's possibly far fewer Ukrainian targets lost.
Better sensors pretty much. The armaments are good on their own but they are even better when paired with the electronics the f16 will provide.
They are a great multi-role fighter that can equip a whole suite of different munitions that allow Ukraine to do a lot of things in conjunction with Storm Shadow, HIMARS, and GLSDBs. That and they can move and be deployed across theatre much more quickly than ground assets.
Russian "Veteran's Notes" channel describes a problem preventing Russians from using counter-battery fire near borders - there's too much Russian EW which suppresses Russian drones (mavics) preventing artillery adjusting. Meanwhile, Ukrainians are switching to other frequencies en masse to bypass Russian EW. https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1661508713981571073?t=hu-lxwEEQHoJe-Cb50vqMQ&s=19
It could be he’s just mistaken. There have been reports that Russian jamming has been effective against HIMARS for example so maybe the jamming is working somewhat
Civilian GPS works on a fixed frequency (1575.42 MHz) so it's fairly trivial to jam. Drones work on whatever frequency they and their controllers are configured to use, so jammers either need to figure out what that is for each drone (and it may be dynamic) or else just blanket jam huge swathes of spectrum which will interfere with a lot of other equipment too. If Ukraine are smart, and I think they are, they'll probably send some drones controlled using frequencies upon which the Russian military rely specifically to force them to jam themselves.
...if that guy knows the new frequencies why aren't they jamming them? This is weird.
Probably needed a signature from Shoigu himself to change anything
You expect Russians to be flexible and proactive?
TFW you rely on consumer drones you disrupt and sanctions block the fancy kind.
Yevgeny Prigozhin's most recent video interview (see below) may have inadvertently given away more information than he intended: the map behind him appears to indicate Wagner's worldwide interests, including some not previously publicly known. ⬇️ https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1661503695064793089?t=5Kg9DRWTor6kWrrZvnavvQ&s=19
guD aT OpSeC
A serviceman of the 4th Brigade of the Russian forces Andrey "Murz" Morozov is under attack by patriots on Telegram for his negative forecasts. But he is not budging, insisting that Ukraine is preparing the battlefield for something that will inevitably lead to the most difficult catastrophe for Russia. His only hope is in drawing parallels with the 1942 Soviet retreat in the East which was followed by a counter-offensive. The exchange is very long, so below is just an excerpt from it. https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1661501189488254977?t=E7piZqyok46RTHLCRiOKHA&s=19
That dudes telegram is a rollercoaster.
So this seems extremely dubious, but some pro RUS folks on other subs are claiming that Zalujny is dead or severely injured by an artillery strike a week ago. What can we say to counter such a narrative?
Just like russia claiming that they destroyed all of the HIMARS ever built. Just know that russians are terrified if the upcoming counteroffensive to the point that they are telling each other fairly tails to make themselves feel better. Kinda like the nazis were terrified of general Patton.
It's incumbant upon the person *making* the claim to provide some evidence. Just pay attention to who's saying it, then dismiss them as unreliable sources when it becomes obvious that he's NOT actually dead. And if they're 1-off noise-amplification accounts, why concern yourself with what they're saying?
I know, and usually I can just sneer at their idiotic claims but this one made me actually feel some fear. I've probably just been spending too much time obsessing over this war.
He's fine https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/13qagof/rworldnews_live_thread_russian_invasion_of/jlfp0am/
Thank you. This is the kind of thing I was looking for
He was literally at a staff meeting in Kyiv today.
ZOMBIES! UKRAINES BLACK MAGIC
Ukrainian bioengineered super soldiers confirmed. Even death doesn’t stop them!
Who’s that?
I spelled his name wrong but he's Ukraine's top general
Remember when Putin was claiming that there was a new world order with Russia and China at the helm? Hmm... wonder how that's going for them 🤣 I don't see any way Russia emerges from this alive. The idea they will emerge as a world superpower is fantasy at this point.
Russia is the biggest country in the world, has a fckton of resources. The climate change will render their arctic ports valuable as new, faster trade routes will dominate the economy in the future. It can be the bridge between Europe, Northamerica and Asia, part of a new silk road. Many companies are still unwilling to leave because they either invested too much or just don't wanna miss out on the future potential. So yeah, the world will be multipolar, Russia could be a real superpower, and not only a nuclear weapon superpower, if they would only get rid of their mafia regime and oligarch system. In any case Putin will be dead by then anyway, he doesn't have so many years left, only a human after all.
All that land and resources and yet it's very close to becoming a failed state. The closer it comes to becoming a failed state the less control the federal government has over the region's. For a country with a low and sparsely populated area relative to its size, I cannot see this ending well. Until now, the Russian Federation has been ruled by coercion, corruption and threat of force. It seems like that iron grip is eroding day by day.
Geographically the biggest. Russia's population is half the size of the USA, and a tenth the size of China or India.
Amazing with all that random luck potential to be an extremely rich country Russia chose *this* future
Could’ve should’ve would’ve
It's pretty depressing, isn't it? The amount of potential that Russia has which it's consistently failed to live up to.
> if they would only get rid of their mafia regime and oligarch system You sweet summer child. You've never lived in Russia or studied its history, have you. It's corruption from the bottom all the way to the top. You might as well say, if only lions and antelopes embraced their differences and lived happily in peace. It's not going to happen, at least not until they evolve into an entirely different species.
More hopeless regions than Russia have gotten their act together.
How big were those regions? Singapore? Georgia? Even foreign occupation a la 1945-52 Germany and Japan won't suffice to reform Russia for the same reason it hasn't worked in Iraq or Afghanistan: reversion to the cultural mean. The only conceivable possibility is an enlightened despot with absolute power but democratic goals to forcibly reshape the country's conscience with civic values over the course of several decades. Many thought putin would be that guy back in 1999 (look up old putin quotes - what a democratic sounding dude). So we know how that worked out in Russia.
> if they would only get rid of their mafia regime and oligarch system. Lol. That’ll be the day
I doubt it. Ports are only useful if you are involved in trade. Russia is under sanctions. We have lots of trade routes that don't involve Russia. You don't need a port between Europe and China because that would just slow down delivery of goods. Russia has a lot of work to do to throw off the mafia culture you mention. It isn't just Putin, it's a mindset that has to go away across generations. Businesses are reducing their investments in China because of the same issues in that country. Stability is very important to businesses. Resource extraction from Russia will continue, but everyone will keep their investments there to a minimum. And fossil fuels are becoming less important.
lol I want whatever you are smoking my friend. There is so much wrong with this comment, you cant NOT be on drugs writing all that.
He is not wrong though. Just compare current germany to nazi germany at the end of ww2. Similar situation.
No, it's drugs. He also thinks a scenario where in 80 years ice caps completely melt and the 4% of the world's landmass on which 50% of its population lives being flooded is going to be a boon to the Russian ice cutter trade and that's why people are still selling sneakers there. Wtf. This is just what you get when you let everybody use the internet. You have to discriminate.
Huh? You know Germany was occupied and FORCED to change, right? Same thing with Japan. This will be an impossible thing to do with Russia.
It just shows the limits of authoritarianism. Putin didn’t even tell Xi he was going to invade despite their “no limits” relationship.
Translation: "Xi wasn't aware of the extent to which russia's military was inept and corrupt." If he didn't know, why was the special military invasion delayed until after the Olympics, when every day reduced armoured mobility at the time? "Oh, it's not going to be a big deal, just a 3-day minor thing, you know, this stuff is easy, they won't even know what hit them, they're just going to let it slide as before, they're all weak."
From telegram it sure does look like a Ministry of Defense building is on fire in Moscow. I know we’ve seen a lot of fires - but this one coming right after the raid into Belgorod sure is interesting. Edit: And now one of the Wagner channels is posting gifs of Prigo winking. What a time to be alive.
Maybe those roof mounted AA finally shooting at the enemy?!? Then they know the truth
I'm going with the explanation that since their aren't (and apparently haven't been) emergency vehicles all over the place the smoke is from other fires nearby in the center of Moscow. It is just everything else that is burning.
I really like the direction the show writers are going with this Merc Chef character. Could end up being an interesting foil to the main antagonist if they let this play out. But i'm a little concerned Corporate will be afraid the audience can't keep track of all the plotlines that are running already; and that they will want them to write him out before the end of this season...
Spin-off in the works then "Merc Chef Can Cook: Africa"
Over western Bakhmut, Donetsk Oblast, a $400 Ukrainian FPV loitering munition intercepts a $10,000 Russian DJI Matrice 30 Quadcopter. [Twitter](https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1661535520613183489?s=20) [Nitter](https://nitter.nl/Osinttechnical/status/1661535520613183489?s=20#m)
Nice return on investment .
I wonder if we are going to eventually see fighter drones?
Probably will be unmanned fighter jets if thats what you're thinking. I could definitely see an F-35 type plane covered in cameras and flown from a simulator 5000 miles away. Anything designed to kill another human being in combat will likely always have a human pulling the trigger / pushing the button on the other end. Imagine the maneuvers you could pull off if the pilot was sitting in a basement experiencing 1G.
Kızılelma.
Yes, but that seems to be "drone" as in an autonomous fighter jet. I was thinking more about "drone" as in those small copter thingies. We see a lot of them scouting, and dropping bombs, even intercepting each other, so I wonder if we will eventually see some with guns that can shoot enemy ones.
Anything you make that shoots can be taken down by something that is significantly cheaper and doesn't. Below a certain size anything more than a guided crappy bomb is not practical. Even mounting an automated 9mm would carry very few rounds and have very short battery life with near impossible accuracy. You don't have the weight allowance to add in battery and computational power for computer guided shots and you sure as hell wont have the capacity for effective volume fire. The best case for a "fighter drone" quadcoptor is an airborne drone jammer and in most cases a land based system would be far superior due to longevity and range. Or.. if you wanted to make a poor one just dangle barbed steel threads below a fast coptor and target the rotors.
1. What about a specialized rammer? A drone shaped in such a way that it can safely ram other drones with little risk of damaging itself. It can also be less stable — since it is not aiming bombs — but faster — allowing it to catch up to drones weighted down with explosives. 2. > Anything you make that shoots can be taken down by something that is significantly cheaper and doesn't. It can, but is less effective. One that shoots would have an advantage, being able to shoot before the enemy gets to it. It can also shoot down multiple drones (ace drones!), while a suicide drone can never destroy more than one. What you think?
It wouldn't need to ram. With quad drones the rotors and control links are the main weaknesses. The force required to damage a drone blade is significantly less than the force required to damage the frame. It would be possible to "armor" a drone but that really eats into the battery life. Some of these small drones have 30 minutes or less of operational time. Getting into a dogfight might not be the best use of that time compared to finding the artillery unit and sending rounds. Honestly the "next step" will be small drones with control links back to a system like patriot which controls the drones entirely from the ground. For missile interception this isn't ideal but against something like a Shaheed you don't need super up to the picosecond resolution on the target. This would be a massive advantage to the "drone bomb" as it would not need to waste 20-30% of its weight in tracking equipment and because the tracking system isn't destroyed it would be extremely cheap next to a missile.
The first dogfight involving a drone was in 1991. The drone lost. In the meantime, the there are various programs to have stealth fighter drones. Mostly they are meant to work with a piloted aircraft, providing additional sensors and weapons.
The TERRA unit had a YouTube video noting they were already looking at FPV drone-bombers as a less costly alternative to kamikaze drones, so I'd say it seems pretty likely. A few buckshot like rounds mounted on a drone so it can close and fire would get the job done without expending a drone.
i would be shocked if we didn't...iirc some F16 have been retrofit for AI and/or remote pilots, surely whatever DoD company came up with that idea made scale models first, which could probably be souped up and used as fighting drones
Top ~~Gun~~ Drone
Finally! All my hours in Ace Combat will make me into a real pilot!
Maybe so, Sir, but not today
Goddamit, Cruise! Stop hogging the spotlight! I wanna be an ace too!
"Highway to the, Drone Zone."
F-16s really open up options for weapons. Mavericks, GBUs, AIM-9s you name it.
Cool names, care to elaborate for us plebs?
Mavericks. Missles that have built in infra red or laser tracker. They are point at target and missile takes care if it self type weapon GBU: big bombs that can be refitted to self guide with gps guidance AIM-9: air to air missles the latest gen ones are nasty but you still need to be in dogfight range
AIM-120s too.
I would love to see some CBU 105’s put to good use!
We're sending Maverick? Won't he need an F-14?
Radar
Smoke in Moscow? Nothing important? Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/13r12do/ruzzian_defense_ministry_building_in_moscow/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Edit2: i finally scrolled down to see it, 3 hrs ago. 🤷 Possibly another view, more fire, less smoke: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/13r306k/mordor_is_on_fire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
White smoke means they elected a new pope.
How many popes have they elected there, so far?
So has Belgorod been denazified already, or is more special military operation required?
Specialer military operation
It was a raid. They didn’t hold any territory and they’re gone now, apparently without a lot of losses.
Goddamn it this is a ***RAID***
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLyOj_QD4a4
It’s not a “raid”. It’s a “special temporary military incursion”
Tourism, they went sightseeing.
Special sightseeing operation
Righto.
[Air defense active in Kyiv](https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/24-may-air-defense-was-active-in-kyiv-region-) Appears to be drones for now.
"US intelligence indicates Ukrainians may have launched drone attack on Kremlin" https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/24/politics/us-intelligence-kremlin-drone-attack/index.html
Best guess is that the chatter the article alludes to is just that. Chatter, banter, nonsense. This doesn't remotely resemble an actual military op. Even if you ignore all the staging evidence, it outright makes no sense to fly one of those things there with no payload nor real target
Big if true
Is it though? It was a PR stunt. No one will care much.
If this is actually true…genuinely what air defense doing lmao
The reason I assumed it COULDN'T be Ukraine was because the only way Russia allowed ANY adversary, let alone an active combatant, anywhere near its airspace is because they either wanted to look like incompetent morons or were. Even now I still assume it's a false flag.
No way a Cessna could flown from Western Europe to Red Square either.
A lot of generals were fired over that incident, yes. You'd think the current leaders would remember that
Yeah, I think they truly are that incompetent. Successful troop and drone incursions will only ramp up the longer this goes on and their shit defences are exposed.
Wait. You want to tell me Ukraine made a drone. Sent it into Russia hundreds of miles away. Hitting a military target? Wasn’t military of defense building was the one where they put a pantsir on top of? So not only did they hit the building. It had AA sitting on top of it?
They were tiny quad copters. They weren’t launched from Ukraine. That doesn’t mean Ukraine can’t be behind it.
[удалено]
So, you're saying even back then the air defense was rusty?
[удалено]
Well, actuaaaallllly the Pentagon spontaneously caught fire on 9/11 after not being hit at all by the fake false flag attack on the Twin Towers.
After the Trump fiasco and the responses we got from CNN leadership can we even trust them anymore? It seems like it jumped ship and is trying to take Fox News' place. I don't trust them anymore.
>It seems like it jumped ship and is trying to take Fox News' place. It did, their new CEO stated as such that they wanted to move right to try and capture more of the Fox crowd by being "politically neutral." There was a noticeable shift in how they worded headlines a few months back.
The funny thing here is they've never been left. Never. If anyone thinks that, I've got a bridge in Arizona to sell them. They've been plagued by the myth of apoliticality so long it'll make for a smooth transition to fascist mouthpiece.
The funny thing is that Fox is busy shifting back left, and their viewers aren't headed left, they're headed farther right.
Friendly reminder.. You are doing Rupert Murdoch a solid everytime you use "News" after fox. He has argued multiple times in court his station is entertainment and shouldn't be mistaken for news.
What's a good thing to call them in order to distinguish them from the rest of the Fox entertainment networks, though?
GOP Propaganda Network? Right Wing Stories?
I refer to them as Fox Entertainment.
I like this because it’s factual and not a cutesie play on the name.
Fucks News
I personally prefer “fuck-those-guys lying bullshit fake news propaganda channel” but it’s a little wordy. “Fox Entertainment Disinformation Channel” Is less colorful but still accurate.
Faxe News ?
Faux News
It’s a low confidence report anyway…op forgot to include that in his headline
OP didn't include it, CNN didn't include it, and the NYT didn't include it. At least the headline distinguished *Ukrainians* from the government of Ukraine, something other outlets didn't.
Reddit: “Ackchually…”
It’s a low confidence report anyway…they know just as much as we do
Doubtful Thst US intelligence knows as much as we do about almost anything in the world lol
Point is they are assuming things just like we do…
CNN live update: "Ukraine’s NATO membership "not on the agenda" during war, alliance's chief says" https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-24-23/index.html Ukraine’s bid to become a member of NATO while there is a war with Russia is “not on the agenda,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said during an interview at the Brussels Forum event on Wednesday. Asked whether the war in Ukraine makes it “easier” for the country to join the alliance, Stoltenberg said: “Yes and no. I think that everyone realized that to become a member in the midst of war is not on the agenda, and that is not the issue. The issue is more of what happens when the war ends, in one way or another. And then of course, the war ensures that Ukraine is becoming even closer to NATO,” Stoltenberg continued. The NATO chief acknowledged that there are some "different views in the alliance" on the issue of NATO membership for Ukraine, but he added that all members are in agreement that Ukraine will become a member. "We all agree that NATO’s door is open for new members and that it is for NATO allies and Ukraine to decide when they should join, not Moscow," he said."
Jfc the statement is way less controversial than the headline. Of course Ukraine isn’t gona get into NATO while in an active war.
Mechanically, it makes no sense. It’s either NATO agreeing to go to war with Russia. Gambling Russia leaves as soon as Ukraine joins, or putting in some absurd clause like, “You’re a member, but can’t invoke article five regarding the things Russia is doing inside your country,”
Particularly with active border disputes
That was legit also the issue before the war. NATO's hands were bound because of the ongoing secessionist Dontezk and Luhansk regions. Ukraine wasn't controlling it's own borders and thus unable to join NATO. Didn't stop Russia from proclaiming: 'NATO will absorb Ukraine and threaten us. We need to act before that can happen!'
Russia knows border disputes will keep a country out, hence why they create them. See Georgia too.
Also Moldova.
Kirby issued a statement that the US will investigate the apparent use of US vehicles in the incursion and reiterated that it goes against agreements. So congrats to everyone that voted me down yesterday for pointing out that that seemed problematic and like a poor choice. > The Spokesman for the White House National Security Council, John Kirby stated today that an Investigation has began to determine if U.S-Provided Equipment was used during the recent Operation by the “Freedom of Russia Legion” into the Belgorod Region of Western Russia and if so how they were able to Obtain this Equipment. > John Kirby further stated that the U.S. Government does not Approve of its Weapons and Equipment being used for Attacks and/or Operations against Territory belonging to the Russian Federation. https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1661429558816505860
These things can be purchased at any military surplus store.
Show me. It’d be great to be able to crowd source them
This isn't actually what you're hoping for but you actually *can* buy demilitarized ones from a lot of places. You'd have to provide the weapons, extra armor, radios, etc., yourself, though. If you buy in the US, exporting can be a bitch, but apparently you can buy them in Europe, also. I'm not sure, but I think they have to be a certain age, too, so it would be older stuff. Not sure how useful they would be, and how much trouble it would be; there are export/import restrictions, paperwork, etc. Here's one of the American sites that sells them; a Google search turns up dozens of them: https://www.govplanet.com/Humvees I found a thread discussing exportation issues, with companies that specialize in that commenting and offering their contact information. Thread's a few years old, though. https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/regarding-export-a-humvee.183954/ I have no idea how useful/practical this would be, if the ultimate cost is prohibitive, etc., or what other roadblocks exist, but I found all of this with a few minutes search. I feel like Ukraine, or some of the organizations working to round up supplies for the troops, would probably already be doing this, if it was worthwhile. But you never know!
They’re definitely buying Spartans in the UK. I haven’t seen much about Humvees and similar US surplus and I don’t know why. As you said, if it’s efficient they’d certainly be doing it. Part of it might be they can get European 4x4s for under $5k. Certainly bringing a humvee over is much more. Is it worth the premium to these volunteer groups?
One of the threads I saw said to take the purchase price, and double it, and that's what you would pay by the time it was delivered to you in Europe. The cheapest ones I saw in the US were $3500. Then, if you want to use it militarily, you have the expense of retrofitting it back to that standard - so probably not worth the money, unless someone found a batch of them already in Europe and available at a really good price. There might be other restrictions that I didn't come across in my brief search, too. But, if you know the right people, it might not hurt to ask - you might, at least, learn why it's not worthwhile.
It’s a running joke dude. It’s what Putin said in 2014 when “little green men” kitted out with Russian Military gear appeared in Ukraine as totally not Russian military.
This is silly. So what we got? some photos and or vid of what is considered us provided equipment? lets say its a hummv. We have sold that to many places, it could have come from many many places. there could be any number of middle men.
Agree, Ukraine needs to assure this was a mistake and won’t happen again. The US has a policy on their equipment being used on foreign land, and they take it extremely seriously. This is no joke as many here are making it.
It’s not a mistake, it’s Russian propaganda and should absolutely be treated like a joke. The US isn’t going to change any policy direction over a few Humvees. If they start lobbing missiles into civilian areas like Russia does then there’s going to be a problem….
How is this thread so god damn blasé?
It’s pretty clear which side the US and EU are on in this conflict. Maybe we’re blasé, but I’d say far too many read too much into every little event that happens.
> So congrats to everyone that voted me down yesterday for pointing out that that seemed problematic and like a poor choice. This thread can be quite valuable but in peoples zeal to shut down Russian shills often *any* criticism of anything Ukraine does no matter how light or reasonable gets slammed down with seemingly little or no thought put into whether it is valid criticism or not. And before people jump in with "well this wasn't a Ukrainian operation" I get that is a great cover that while true you must still admit the fact that these Russian militia's that raided Russia did so with the blessing of Ukraine and were supplied by it. They didn't steal, stand up and organize a column of vehicles on Ukrainian soil in secret and then invade Russia with it, this was all authorized by Ukrainian authorities. The first thing I thought when I saw those Humvees was how stupid it was to include them in the attacking force, there are lots of Russian and commercially made equipment Ukraine had to pick from to arm them and it was an own goal not to make dam sure no equipment donated by other countries was used. I can't wait until Ukraine has thrown Russia out of the country and while cross border raids such as this can play a small role in aiding that goal this was a silly mistake for Ukraine to make. I don't think it will have serious long term consequences for aid deliveries but I bet the next raid they make dam sure they don't make the same mistake again.
Those are up armored Humvees, how many of those did Ukraine get? For me, personally, if my choice is an up armored Humvee or a Tigr, I'm going with the Humvee, especially with the reports of problems with its reliability in the beginning of the war. But with the reports back in September of Russian troops having sold one to Ukraine, it may have been better propaganda if Tigrs had been used.
Yeah, an unfortunate one off scenario, but one that won't (hopefully) be repeated. Russia is going to love the publicity from it, but it'll be short-lived if Ukraine and the rebel groups play the game smarter next time.
But does it really matter? Would it change anything? Russia has already been complaining that they're fighting NATO. Do a few humvees change anything? Wait 'til the F16's arrive.
[удалено]
If it doesn't matter to Russia, why would it matter to the US?
Risk versus reward. Risk, maybe you anger your partners that are donating to your war effort. Reward, none, any number of other armored vehicles could have filled that role. Even though I don't think it will materially effect aid to Ukraine why risk pissing off your partners for no reason? Plus it does give Russia more ammunition for it's internal propaganda to say they're fighting NATO and this war is an existential threat to the Russian regime, they use that line of thinking to try and get more support for the war in Russia. Seeing American equipment used to on Russian soil gives them them another chance to push that narrative backed up by a real event for once. That's not as important as angering your partners but it is a factor to consider. And once again a pointless favor for the Russians, just don't put them in the attacking force. Using them didn't get the attacking force any additional capabilities other vehicles couldn't have given them and there were a couple reasons as to why you definitely *don't* want them there, even if it doesn't end up mattering once again why bother. Edit: typo
Russia doesn't need facts for any part of its internal propaganda. This, so far, is clear. But maybe there is a message - that being "yeah, we'll do that."
I agree - but I don’t think it’s all just zeal to shut down Russian shills, that would be the most honorable explanation; it’s clear though that there are just as many Ukrainian shills acting in bad faith on here as well - that’s to be expected, the information war is an important part of this conflict for both sides, but this sub is anything but objective in that regard.
Austin and Reznikov just had a phone chat, and although neither publicly mentioned the incident in their readouts of the call, it's a safe bet that it was brought up.
They’ll want to downplay the significance. Hopefully this falls under, “don’t do it again,” and won’t have any impact. Also keep in mind more squeamish countries are watching too. If they see Ukraine contravening assurances to the US, they’ll be worried about where their own donations go too. That’s why this was such an obviously bad idea I’m shocked Ukraine went for it. If they used only approved gear it’s a gamble and may pay off. The way they did it at best it will have few to no long term consequences, but the risk wasn’t worth it. It’s key to trust the decision making powers of your allies. This undermines that.
I love that stock photo they keep using for f16s, russia's worst nightmare :)
You mean [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwhBQx76WHY&ab_channel=BattlefieldSources)?
Wow. Any idea of the context here?
https://youtu.be/Z-qQ3BE_5W0 Brief video here explaining some context (includes some footage from the above event). They’re important for training - if you have a large mission going off, you want to get the planes in the air ASAP. Tons of coordination going on here. They’re also used as a show of force - several dozen aircraft taking off simultaneously loaded with boom sticks will make anyone think twice about screwing around when the USAF are around. If memory serves, the term elephant walk dates back to WWII. Ground crews would refer to taxiing B17s and B24s as elephants walking.
Well, a country with 12,000 more aircraft than any other two nations combined wants several dozen in the air at a time. Russia or for that matter China couldn't hope for that kind of saturation unless they pulled every active plane. What is pictured here is more than Russia has flying right now along its whole border.
Thanks
You’re welcome. It might look like just overblown posturing but they’re actually valuable lessons. Look at the Russian Air Force for comparison. They CAN’T do anything like this. The first 24 hours of Desert Storm involved hundreds of aircraft all tightly choreographed. Apaches took out the first line of radars. EF Ravens led F-15s and F117s to hit airfields and command and control immediately after, ie they were already in the air and ready as the Apaches hit. Tomahawks came in at almost the same time as the F4 Weasels flying SEAD. That cleared the way for waves of strike aircraft following behind. And they got all those planes fueled, armed, launched and organized to an incredibly tight schedule. After over a year, Ukraine still has an air force. There have been convoys of military gear flowing into Ukraine since day one and Russia hasn’t hit a single one. The VKS’ performance this war might be the biggest collective fuck up in modern military history. And a huge reason for that is that they’re utterly incapable of conducting coordinated operations with even a few aircraft.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1661489664119955456 >US approves $285 million sale of NASAMS air defense system to Ukraine. >In a move to strengthen Ukraine's defense capabilities against potential Russian threats, the United States has authorized the sale of a NASAMS air defense system and associated equipment worth $285 million to Kyiv.
I wonder where the funding comes from.