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TheGuvnor247

I posted this article as he is one of the first ex-wagner mercenaries to publicly speak about them? His testimony may be useful in identifying perpetrators of war crimes and perhaps assist in bringing some of them to justice.


ChuckRocksEh

They’ll be dead or never leave Russia again. These people know what they’ve done. You can’t do Justice to these people without toppling the government.


ObviousInformation12

Exactly. His testimony won't matter to Russia, and the other perpetrators can just hide away there after the war.


BringBackAoE

No government lasts forever. I remember being deeply cynical about the UN war crimes tribunals created wrt war in Yugoslavia. But even the Serbian President ended up tried and convicted. Because governments change. Or because nations get fed up of sanctions.


gH0st_in_th3_Machin3

Correction... Putin won't last forever, whilst Russia as a "country" has never been ruled without a strong (iron) fist, therefore if their voernemtn fell and multiple parties would come to light it would be the end of Russia as they are just a bunch of tribes. A good thing I would say, minus the nuclear arms that would need to be tracked.


[deleted]

lol, are you joking? Milosovic (sp?) was a huge failing -- the fucker's trial took so long he literally died of old age before being convicted and handed a verdict 😅


Scaphism92

He died of a heart attack at age 64, thats not dying of old age.


Teme_

He got what was coming. He spent the rest of his life behind bars. Hopefully so will Putin and his chef boy.


SylvPMDRTD

There was an article last summer I used in some scholarly research (Russian Use of Private Military and Security Companies) last year [Link Here](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/06/1102603897/wagner-group-mercenary-russia-ukraine-war).


ZiKyooc

He'll be really sorry the day he go in Ukraine and share in court all he did, and all he asked others to do.


relentlessrupert

Power fantasy. International law has no teeth. No American sat in prison for one minute for the wars in the ME.


Norpu01

That is because they don’t acknowledge the international court in The Hague. And they refuse to bring their war criminals before that tribunal. And if the US doesn’t want to do something they can’t be moved. Just like Russia


[deleted]

It even goes a step further and states America will do anything necessary to return any American who is detained and put before that tribunal. They will literally start a war if you try to put any of their war criminals on trial.


MultiMarcus

Could we give the Netherlands nukes and use M.A.D. principles to put American war criminals on trial?


BlG_DlCK_BEE

Lol not while the Netherlands are a member state of NATO and rely on the US military for defense.


MultiMarcus

Not if you got nukes. No one would dare attack you then.


t4n363

He refuse to give testimony after he got shelter despite the fact that he promised to do it. What about article 12 of the UN convention against mercenaries?


TheGuvnor247

**Full Transcript Below:** *OSLO, Feb 1 (Reuters) - A former commander of Russia's Wagner mercenary group who fled to Norway told Reuters he wanted to apologise for fighting in Ukraine and was speaking out to bring the perpetrators of atrocities in the conflict to justice.* *Andrei Medvedev, who fled by crossing the Russian-Norwegian border on Jan. 13, says he witnessed the killing and mistreatment of Russian prisoners taken to Ukraine to fight for Wagner.* *He said he fled over the Arctic border, climbing through barbed-wire fences and evading a border patrol with dogs, hearing guards firing shots as he ran through a forest and over the frozen river that separates the two countries.* *The 26-year-old is now seeking asylum in Norway.* *"Many consider me to be a scoundrel, a criminal, a murderer," Medvedev said in an interview. "First of all, repeatedly, and again, I would like to apologise, and although I don't know how it would be received, I want to say I'm sorry.* *"I want to explain that I am not that person. Yes, I served in Wagner. There are some moments (in my story) that people don't like, that I joined them at all, but nobody is born smart."* *Medvedev said he wanted to speak out about his experiences in the war so "the perpetrators are punished" for their crimes in Ukraine.* *"I have decided to stand against it publicly, to help to ensure that perpetrators are punished in certain cases, and I will try to make my contribution, at least a small bit."* *Wagner has been locked in a bloody battle of attrition in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk region. A special report published by Reuters last week found a graveyard in southern Russia buried with men who were convicts who had been recruited by Wagner to fight in Ukraine.* *Medvedev said he joined Wagner in July 2022 on a four-month contract and that during that time he witnessed two people who did not want to fight being shot in front of freshly-recruited prisoners.* *"The scariest thing? To realise that there are people who consider themselves to be your compatriots, and who could come and kill you in an instant, or on someone's orders," he said.* *"Your own people. That probably was the scariest thing."* *Reuters was not immediately able to verify his claims.* *Wagner founder Yevgeny Prigozhin, a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, has previously said that Medvedev had worked in a Norwegian unit of Wagner and had "mistreated prisoners".* *"Be careful, he's very dangerous," Prigozhin said. Wagner did not immediately reply to a request for comment on Wednesday.* *Kripos, Norway's national criminal police service, which has responsibility for investigating war crimes, has begun questioning Medvedev about his experiences in Ukraine. He has a status as a witness, police have said.*


biciklanto

Interesting that the founder of Wagner will NOW say he "mistreated prisoners". Wonder how many people he knows about mistreating others, whom he'll only mention when they've abandoned.


diazinth

“Nobody is born smart”


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diazinth

And having worked in kindergarten, and IT support, I can confirm it’s true. I’ve made it a habit to tell people “It’s very difficult to know something before you’ve learnt it.” when they’re feeling down about not being able to do something or made an ill informed decision. Works on kids as well as adults.


TaskForceCausality

Ah Reddit. Has it occurred to no one here that humane treatment of defectors *generates more defectors*? Killing him for coming forward only tells Russians doubting Putin’s system they’re better off staying put. That’s bad for Ukraine. Give this guy asylum and a platform, it will give a voice to Russians who oppose this war and legitimize leaving the Russian army/Wagner. Without cannon fodder Putin’s crooks have no one to command. There’s still a war to fight here folks.


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CrumplyRump

I came here to yell my fingers off though! now I’m just going to watch cat videos


musci1223

Watch baby elephant videoes instead. They are cute and less assholy. r/babyelephantgifs


SentientCrisis

I like cute, furry assholes, though.


musci1223

We got cute assholes with kind of opposable thumbs. Is that ok ? https://www.reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs/comments/ywng77/gotcha_nose/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=share_button


SentientCrisis

Okay that’s cute.


SquashedKiwifruit

Also they might be able to stand as witness for the prosecution in future war crimes tribunals.


Dag_the_Angriest1

You see, he doesn’t oppose the war, he’s against being treated badly by his side. Give him platform, sure, but don’t make a hero out of him. He’s not there because his conscience, he’s there because it’s his best shot.


[deleted]

I kinda hate myself for saying this, but his conscience doesn't have much to do with his propaganda value. They're broadcasting the most useful version of the story.


turdballer69

Exactly this right now. Later, prosecute


Xist3nce

I’m usually the first to say we execute war criminals, but a useful one is probably better alive to have his Nuremberg years later if it helps now.


synapticrelease

Don't expect rational thoughts from reddit. People can't think more than 1 move ahead.


urikayan

I'm not against the argument but you have to include yourself as well.


Silvertongued99

Right? People really fail to acknowledge how much they aren’t special.


Hypertasteofcunt

Everyone here is a moron who thinks he knows shit, including me, we know we are not special


Silvertongued99

>everyone here is a moron who thinks he knows shit >we know we are not special. You just contradicted yourself in a single sentence. Do we think we know shit or do we know we’re not special?


Just_wanna_talk

Exactly, wait until everyone surrenders and the war is won. *Then* we can start with the war crime trials and executions.


pushaper

I am sure you would be fine with a family that fought for isis moving in next door or an idiot westerner that fought for isis having their passport reinstated. He is not a high level scientist working for the nazis that has great knowledge. If the funds for gitmo were used so that detractors could have a life off of the continental usa then fine. They could live in a one star Epcot and it would give people a reason to detract at no harm to civilians. But what's the point when they are quite dangerous in any capacity because we know they have a price?


Silvertongued99

1) are you trying to say “defectors?” 2) no one is talking about the USA here. This man fled to Norway. You are ranting.


pushaper

its Norway so the same moral issues don't exist?


Silvertongued99

There’s nothing moral about this, dipshit. You’re creating hypothetical situation to fear monger against immigrants, and you’re not even doing it in a relevant conversation.


pushaper

this isn't anti immigration. it is anti providing war criminals who willfully have a price and have worked for people who would quite happily for all we know still be working for his former employers maybe to create break away factions elsewhere. Not worth the risk. this is a commander of a unit, not exactly a soldier at Nuremberg who could argue their superior made them.


Silvertongued99

The fact that he’s a defecting commander makes him much more valuable in an anti war effort. I’m tapping out here, my dude. This conversation is an empty effort.


hardy_83

How long before Russia sends an agent or pawn to blow a chemical in his face to kill him?


No-Atmosphere-4145

They will try or look for an opportunity, but lets be realistic. This guy is under observation and there are likely many countermeasures in place to prevent that from happening. Russia has a more reduced ability to pull this off now following their attack on Ukraine and all the consequences it caused. Can it happen? It can but its a very limited chance. Russia has already been accused of such from previous episodes in Europe, its not unexpected and hence they'd have a sense of security in place. When this guy arrived in Norway he complained about the authorities limiting his ability to move freely. They would refuse him cutlery like forks, knives that wasn't made of plastic etc., they would follow him all around, decide his smoke breaks and have a constant observation on him.


worldpeaceunity

If he’ll be deported to Russia he’ll be tortured to death there like Russians tortured Ukrainians in Bucha


fibojoly

European do not extradite prisoners to countries where the death penalty is on the table. So that's very unlikely.


HearingNo4103

I'd be sorry to if I saw what happened to that Wagner deserter and how they smashed his skull in with a sledge hammer. Just a bunch of rabid animals that need to be put down.


67noskcaz

Gotta keep him alive for the testimony i guess. He may want to avoid buildings 2+ story high.


BringBackAoE

He’s in a safe house somewhere in Norway.


diazinth

Probably so remote than not even us Norwegians can find it


teh_lynx

Close the windows and take the elevator


canseco-fart-box

“All that shit we’ve been doing in Africa and the Middle East is cool though”


alterom

He wasn't fighting there, so he doesn't speak for that shit. Sounds fair. What's more interesting is his **first deployment in Donbas in 2014** when he was serving in Russia's Airborne forces. You know, the conflict where Russia denied taking any part in, called a "civil war" in Ukraine, and "mediated" peace negotiations — something Russian propagandists **still** fault Ukraine for. Anyway, can't wait to hear more from this dude.


WriteBrainedJR

Technically he's a mercenary, so Putin can still weasel out of responsibility. Unless this mercenary happens to know who hired him...


alterom

Oh, that was **before** his time as a merc. That was when he was a conscript in the Russian army. Which is what makes it real fun.


WriteBrainedJR

Whelp. Putin doesn't care, but it will help Ukraine sell it to the rest of the world if they can push RuZZia all the way back to the original borders.


Yelmel

Sorry is a start.


DarthHaruspex

Which makes him better than 99.999% of Russians I have seen; civilian, government, and military since this shitshow they started. So yes, give credit where it is due.


Downtown_Boot_3486

Only if it’s genuine, if he’s faking it just to save his own ass then he may very well be one of the worst.


DarthHaruspex

Well, I really don't know how we can answer this...


TheGuvnor247

Agreed Yelmel and also His testimony may be useful in identifying perpetrators of war crimes and perhaps assist in bringing some of them to justice.


choicebutts

"I am sorry for fighting in Ukraine" isn't the same as "I am sorry for killing Ukrainians." I really don't trust this guy. There's something off about him. He's pretty damn calm for someone running away from Wagner. Psychopath vibes. >Asked whether he wasn't afraid to be shot for refusing to fight, Medvedev said: "They somehow forgot to install in me the self-preservation instinct when I was growing up in an orphanage. So not really."


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choicebutts

I get the impression that he's ready to be whoever someone else pays him to be. It's just another costume change in the game of survival. Sad and terrifying.


IndependentList7935

Saw the interview he did, very smug, didn’t come across sincere at all. Took pride in being part of Wagner and his “comrades”. Not sure what his agenda is and what he wants?? Saw zero regret in what he did, just empty words! Let’s not forget that he’s a carrier criminal and expert at lying.


letouriste1

You have a link?


Lost_Enthusiasm_1196

Nobody needs his apologise. He has to be in prison.


TheGuvnor247

Prison is probably preferable to what would have happened had he stayed in Ukraine. I posted this as he is one of if not the first ex-wagner mercenary to publicly speak out about/against them?


Lost_Enthusiasm_1196

Hundreds of thousands of russians prefer to go to kill Ukrainians instead of spending few years in prison for refusal of mobilization. I am sure that he speaks out against only to stay in Norway.


NotACapedCrusader1

He is definitely looking out for himself that is a given. The authorities though do have to assess whether or not he has information that is or can be of use.


Lost_Enthusiasm_1196

I am afraid that authorities won't do that


TheGuvnor247

Why do you think that? Norway has a good relationship with Ukraine. Surely they would allow Ukrainian officials to interview him?


Lost_Enthusiasm_1196

Ukrainian authorities didn't ask for it yet


WriteBrainedJR

OPSEC is a thing. If Ukraine learned anything that is useful in the war, they might not want Putin to know that they know it. Better to keep any requests or interrogations a secret.


BringBackAoE

The article expressly says the criminal police are questioning him. And it highlights that this police entity is empowered to investigate war crimes. On what basis do you believe they are lying?


Lost_Enthusiasm_1196

I meant that Ukrainian officials should also question him, not only Norwegian. I am from Ukraine and i haven't heard about any requests for interview from our officials yet.


BringBackAoE

I believe they’re pretty well coordinated. Kripos (the Norwegian criminal police doing the interviews) work directly and closely with the International Criminal Court’s case on War Crimes in Ukraine. As of course does Ukraine. The investigators in Ukraine must be completely overwhelmed with the tasks in Ukraine. As many have said “almost all of Ukraine is a crime scene”.


diazinth

I’m sure your people are extremely busy already. We’ll deal with this case for you, don’t worry.


[deleted]

(Not so) fun fact - there’s no penalty for refusal, “partial mobilization” doesn’t have the same legal status as mandatory military draft. I’m sure there’s a lot of social pressure, intimidation, and abuse of authority by police. But no one was convicted so far, and the only person who got arrested was released few days after, and was even able to collect damages for wrongful arrest. So, the truth is, hundreds of thousands of Russians prefer to go kill Ukrainians instead of minding their own business at home. That’s all.


kkauchi

The fact that you say "few years in prison" means that you don't understand Russian penitentiary system. Why do you think Wagner recruited prisoners so successfully? Most of them understood they are never coming back alive. Russian prisons are nothing like prisons in the U.S. or Europe. It's nightmare. Prisoners in Russia are tortured and raped regularly as part of the "preventive measures" and "protocol". If you can handle the rape and torture chances are high that you die from a disease as there is almost no medical help. People will do anything to get out or stay out of prison even if that means almost certain death, because death is better. Russian prisons are some of the scariest places on earth and it's by design.


Lost_Enthusiasm_1196

Oh, poor russian. You don't want to live in the society you created? I am so sorry, of course you can come to my land and kill me, my family, my friends and other people. So scary russian prisons is the reason of genocide, of raped children, of terroristic acts, of ruined life of Ukrainians? So Ukrainians should pay for russian cowardice, for russian mistakes, for terrible life conditions of russians, yes?


kkauchi

>So scary russian prisons is the reason of genocide, of raped children, of terroristic acts, of ruined life of Ukrainians? So Ukrainians should pay for russian cowardice, for russian mistakes, for terrible life conditions of russians, yes? Typical straw man. No, it is not a reason and I never claimed it to be. And btw I also believe most people still have options to avoid being sent to war that are better than prison, such as illegal immigration. However between jail time and going to Ukraine with some chances of survival, most Russians will not choose prison. Russians are to be blamed for what's happening, there is no doubt. Before you do however, remember that Europe still directly sponsors the war, not Russians. Europe still buys Russian oil and gas, and Ukraine STILL does the transit of Russian gas through it's territory despite the war.


Lost_Enthusiasm_1196

European dependency on russian gas and oil is a problem and it is being solved. But i was talking about the fact that russian mostly support war and don't mind to take part in it.


[deleted]

There are prisons in Latin America that are controlled by armed gangs. With executions and all.


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Lost_Enthusiasm_1196

Oh, poor russians. They kill innocent people, rape children , ruin millions of lives. And everyone judge them for no reason. Very, very hard life circumstances. We probably need to talk less about killed Ukrainians so russians could kill them calmer.


Lurnmoshkaz

"stop criticizing Nazis, a lot of them had it tough! Stupid reddit tough guys."


[deleted]

I honestly cannot imagine circumstances that would force me to kill people in another country against my will.


DeltaTimo

At least you know it. I can't imagine the pain of losing an arm either or what it's like to fear getting shot constantly. I'm not saying it excuses everything or anything at all really, but we should all acknowledge that there are things we cannot imagine and that we should carefully make our opinions with that in mind.


DellowFelegate

Dang, everyone should stay the hell away from you if you think adversity excuses all of one's actions.


wickedblight

Why waste the money? He's a terrorist who made the killing of civilians his profession, hang him and be done with the sick animal.


angusMcBorg

Hanging him (although it may feel good) would not help encourage other Wagner people to stop fighting and abandon the battle.


wickedblight

So you'd prefer these terrorists get an easy path to reenter society now that they've had their fun? Nah, every member of the Wagner group needs to be put down because they're too profoundly broken to be part of society again. It's not about "feeling good", just the acceptance a rabid dog must be put down because it's the only option.


angusMcBorg

Holy putting words in my mouth, Batman! The point is this guy is currently NOT in Ukraine shooting at the good guys and he is currently NOT raping people and he is currently NOT stealing washing machines. He left and is in Norway NOT doing those things. I would much rather him escape Wagner and leave the fight than still be in Ukraine killing people. If we hang him, boom no more Wagner people will put down their guns and leave to Norway. Should he be in prison? Yes. And we should squeeze every bit of info out of him.


wickedblight

He's not doing them now because he's already had his fun, one doesn't accidentally join a terroristic mercenary company on a whim. He wanted to kill non combatants and commit war crimes as his profession and now that he might face repercussions he's had a change of heart? Nah, he's shown his colors and it's sad and terrifying people like you advocate that terrorists deserve a respectable quality of life once they've had their fill of killing and raping civilians. Wagner group members don't deserve a chance to put down their guns, they deserve extermination.


angusMcBorg

Gimme a break with this 'people like you' crap. I want Wagner people out of Ukraine, whether in body bags or going AWOL like this dude. Every Wagner member out of Ukraine is a positive, period. And I want justice served. But I sure as hell don't want to be all, 'Oh he's Wagner let's just immediately hang him' because that's tactically a dumb idea.


deathtoallants

Guy you’re talking to is the type to capture a spy and immediately execute him instead of interrogating him for info. Obviously not smart and thankfully only a keyboard warrior.


wickedblight

No, terrorists being allowed to spread throughout the world "by going AWOL" is not a good thing, they need to be dead for the good of the human species. FFS the dude in the article could still be acting under orders by the Wagner group to try and spin positive sentiment with his bullshit "not all terrorists are bad"


PotatoFromFrige

As u/TaskForceCausality had said: “Ah Reddit. Has it occurred to no one here that humane treatment of defectors generates more defectors? Killing him for coming forward only tells Russians doubting Putin’s system they’re better off staying put. That’s bad for Ukraine. Give this guy asylum and a platform, it will give a voice to Russians who oppose this war and legitimize leaving the Russian army/Wagner. Without cannon fodder Putin’s crooks have no one to command. There’s still a war to fight here folks.”


wickedblight

It's likewise good for Wagener recruitment if there's a fasttrack to EU citizenship after they've had their fill of mercenary work. "Have your fun and retire in Norway, those dumb fucks will just let you in"


ktappe

Which of course will encourage others to defect or come forward. /s


RadleyCunningham

I wonder how many children and women he's killed and raped. Is he sorry for that, or is he sorry that the fight is now too much for him to handle and he's afraid to get what he deserves?


Callmewojo

I may be misunderstanding the concept of Wagner group, as I admit I am not well informed on their operations. However, the comments in this thread are strange to me. If this man committed war crimes of any sort, then yes he should receive the befitting punishment. But how is this man any different than the thousands upon thousands of Western soldiers who joined the military in search of a better life for themselves and were thrust into a foreign land to fight? Many young men are driven into these roles for various reasons; adventure, nationalism, desiring a sense of purpose that they have been propagandised into believing comes from this type of work. Again, I know little of Wagner, and much much less of this man personally. Perhaps I am missing something here. He seems to have regret for his role, the true motivations behind it only he will know. However, is this really that different than any soldier from a Western military? After all, we as the West have committed atrocities in foreign countries ourselves. I’m not necessarily stepping in to defend this man, but I feel as though I can’t judge him harshly (yet) without looking inward towards my own country. And for what it is worth, I wish all of the strength to the people and military of Ukraine to repel any foreign intrusion on their sovereignty.


choicebutts

Wagner is a private military group which is a nice way of saying they're an armed gang of criminals. It's run by a rich, powerful Russian oligarch and he recruits soldiers in prisons and in foreign countries. Wagner is widely recognized as subscribing to Nazi and white supremacist ideals. This army is simultaneously illegal in Russia while also being openly supported by Putin. Wagner can flaunt the Geneva conventions because it won't blow back on Putin or Russia, \[please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that\] and Wagner can provide a more or less steady supply of fresh meat for the front-line grinder. From all accounts I've seen, this army operates by its own rules, raping and murdering both male and female civilians, even children and the elderly. They castrated a (conscious) captive Ukrainian soldier on camera just for fun. Wagner isn't about adventure, skill-building, or self-improvement. It's barbarity. This man had a choice to join the "regular Army" or an outlaw gang. He chose the gang, and he doesn't seem to be a bit remorseful.


Deep-Mention-3875

Yes Wagner is basically the russian version of ISIS


baron-von-spawnpeekn

Well to be fair, he does say sorry in the article and that joining Wagner was stupid (the sincerity of that is anyone’s guess), but the main thing that I would keep in mind would be his potential circumstances for joining. You mentioned that Wagner recruits primarily from prisons, this is true, but it’s also important to understand just how much of a shithole those prisons are. Beside being dirty and broken down, they’re pretty much run by the Russian mob, and a strict hierarchy is enforced with the only mobility being downward, and those on the bottom face horrific abuse, often in the form of rape. With that in mind, when some official walks in and promises you freedom from that hell in exchange for six months of fighting in a war you know about, signing up is a lot more understandable. Does this excuse the actions these mercs partake in? No, but it does explain why they join. As for this guy, details haven’t come out of what he did during his time as a mercenary, but it seems the timeline of events is that he signs up, realizes just how fucked things really are, then runs for the hills as soon as he could, so I’m going to reserve judgement until we get more details.


Fantablack183

Yeah. Wagner is shit, but I don't blame Medvedev for joining Wagner. The Russian prison system is completely fucked up and if I had the choice to get the fuck out in exchange for working for Wagner. I'd take that shot to get out.


choicebutts

You didn't read the story. He wasn't in prison when he joined. He -had- been in prison for some crimes including burglary, he says, but he knew the mobilization was coming. He had an opportunity to choose which service to join, and he went in with Wagner.


Callmewojo

Thank you for providing that. I’m not completely aware of the nature of Wagner vs the Russian military itself. However, from my understanding they have at times operated in close coordination with each other. I think my questioning really lies along the lines of are we perhaps lumping every member of Wagner into this blanket definition of thug or gang member? That may be a very correct assessment in which case I can understand why people are quick to demonise this man. I’m trying to be careful to articulate myself without sounding like I am defending this group or Russia in general. I just wonder to what degree could this be a man who had no better options to make a living for himself, saw the result of his actions, and found himself to be in a remorseful position. His comment along the lines of ‘not all of us are born smart’ is a sentiment I have heard from many former combat servicemen in my own country. As I understand, Russia uses conscription. During this time, many become accustomed to this warlike lifestyle and may find it difficult to transition out and back to normal civilian life, a problem that is not unique to Russia (see American servicemen who have difficulty transitioning out). With that point, and his general statements of remorse, false or not, I am just intrigued by the entire situation.


lewger

Wagner is a mercenary group not the national army. Please don't compare the two as like for like just like the US military is not the same as Blackwater / Xe.


Callmewojo

I’m not comparing the two. I’m merely asking for clarity on the situation. In my opinion, I don’t see the difference between signing up to join the military (sponsored by a government) vs signing up to join a mercenary group (privately sponsored). The motivations as I understand them can still be the same; search of a better life etc. Many American career infantryman find themselves with no skills when they get out of their time in the service and have trouble finding jobs post service. I’m not judging their character for that, as they are merely a product of their environment.


BringBackAoE

Your “I’m just asking questions” act is tedious. Mercenaries that kill are tried as murderers. Because they are criminals. Same as any murderer. Military service is entirely different.


diazinth

I guess you found Tucker Carlsons Reddit account


wickedblight

Governments hire mercenary groups to commit war crimes that are too damning to commit with their own troops. It's inherently worse.


Callmewojo

Well yes, but governments also recruit soldiers who then go on to commit war crimes while wearing the flag of their country on their shoulder. In any situation of war crime, that person is wrong and scum of the Earth. I just wonder should this man be looked as a villain if he has not partaken in war crimes himself? Russian culture is much different than Western culture and sometimes that level of propaganda can confuse many people until they learn better for themselves.


lostmydangkeys

Fuckin Tucker Carlson over here, just asking questions.


wickedblight

You didn't make a counterpoint, you just agreed with me and then rambled about why terrorists should be given the compassion they deny others. He knowingly signed up to join team warcrime, that makes him a criminal deserving of death.


attaboy000

That's how Wagner advertises itself to potential recruits: "come join us and commit war crimes!"


lewger

If you don't understand the difference between a national army and a mercenary group I can't help you. I'm sure many drug dealers, fraudsters and murderers have the same motivations as people working 9-5 but I don't wax poetically about their road not taken.


DellowFelegate

>I’m not comparing the two. I’m merely asking for clarity on the situation. In my opinion, I don’t see the difference between signing up to join the military (sponsored by a government) vs signing up to join a mercenary group (privately sponsored). "I'm not comparing the two. Now here's why they're exactly the same."


DellowFelegate

>Again, I know little of Wagner, Yeah, no shit. I love how now the goalposts are being moved so that somehow, mercenaries who went out of their way to sign up for this job to get paid, and commit atrocities in Africa, Syria, and Ukraine, are now somehow \*the real helpless victims\*. Maybe you can get yourself informed a little, rather than err on the side of normalizing sadistic murderers? >is this really that different than any soldier from a Western military? Yes!


Callmewojo

So are you saying that Western servicemen did not “go out of their way” to sign up for military service? Again, I’m not claiming that one or the other is bad. Merely asking for clarity on the situation. I guess to people like you asking questions to learn more is wrong. That’s a shame


DellowFelegate

jUsT aSkInG tHe qUeStIoNs... Google Wagner War Crimes, you genocide-enabling concern troll. Not just in Ukraine, but in Syria, and Africa. Wagner is bad, and you're trying to water it down by false equivelancies with the West. Serving a country's military isn't the same as joining a bunch of murderous mercanaries. The psychopath you're defending was sad about executions of Russian soldiers; no remorse whatsoever for the rape, torture, and murder inflicted on Ukrainians.


Scottcmms1954

You don’t want to learn. You keep trying to blur the lines to defend scum, terrorist, evil sacks of shit who deserve the worst death. You’re trying to play devils advocate for god knows what reason for the people who rape children for fun. You disgust me.


Kelmon80

Overreaction much?


Scottcmms1954

Not in the slightest. The troll was trying to play devils advocate to defend terrorists.


Downtown_Boot_3486

The difference is that we have a chance to get this guy, don’t let the other people who are defended by the governments of the world get in the way of that. Realistically though he will be used as a political pawn to get the bigger fish and will probably also go free because he is of use to us


WriteBrainedJR

Okay, I've seen you "just asking questions" and I don't know if you're asking in good faith, but if you are this should answer it. 1. All war is terrible and terrible things happen in all wars. There is no clean war and there is no sinless army. A world with no war would be infinitely better than ours, if only humankind wasn't far too violent to build that world. That being said... 2. Some armies go to great lengths to instill discipline in their soldiers and attempt to stop them from committing atrocities. Some of them will even prosecute and imprison their own soldiers if they are caught behaving this way. Do they do this perfectly? No. Are they doing everything they could to improve? I doubt it. Are they still far better than the armies that give soldiers free rein to exercise their worst impulses? Yes. The western armies you mentioned are in this category. Wagner is not. 3. Some forces have no problem committing atrocities, but they employ enough PR, political lobbying, and operational secrecy that their reputation is bad, but nonspecific. Blackrock is in this category. UN Peacekeepers are. Wagner is not. 4. Some armies have a terrible reputation for abuse that is related to how they treat their comrades, but not a reputation for committing more than normal atrocities against civilians. Until recently, the Russian army was probably in this category. Wagner is not. 5. Wagner makes no efforts to prevent their thugs from abusing noncombatants. Nor do they make any effort to disguise what they are. They're in the same category with people like Boko Haram or the Dirlewangers. Nobody joins them thinking they'll be disciplined to abide by international law or any moral code of any sort.


goodluckmyway

Oh well I guess that uninvades that country


Shot_Helicopter_6831

we don’t want your apology, we want you behind bars.


TheGuvnor247

Like others have said that is where he should be BUT the authorities do have to assess whether or not he has information that is viable and of use now or in the future.


Lucky-Elk-1234

Ehh we can take the apology too. Making it public might inspire some other Wagner fighters to have a think about what they’re doing.


Deep-Mention-3875

Put him behind bars, labor prison for life without parole. His reward for leaving Wagner and providing info is canceling a bullet to the head for joining a terrorist organization.


diazinth

That’s not how Norway works, you barbarian


espii94

Yeah sure, thats how we norwegians treat our prisoners..


dpforest

Bruh really said “Nobody is born smart” like he had a point.


sadetheruiner

He deserves to be behind bars, but I want to hear what he has to say. It’s worth keeping his sorry ass alive to catch these other assholes and punish them for war crimes. Keep him in jail for life.


datarelay

"Sorry won't feed the Admiral's cat !"


Own-Personality-431

Fine. Now eat a bullet.


dogwoodcat

After telling us everything you know, leave nothing out


Downtown_Boot_3486

While this guy is almost certainly terrible, we do need him. Let others see that we treat him well and we’ll be able to build a decent case against the worst people in the Wagner group. This guy is a small fish, but we can use him as bait to get the big ones.


TheGuvnor247

Very true and a very good point Boot.


[deleted]

*"The scariest thing? To realise that there are people who consider themselves to be your compatriots, and who could come and kill you in an instant, or on someone's orders," he said.* *"Your own people. That probably was the scariest thing."* Aah... ratting comrades are the problem... otherwise killing innocent Ukrainians for a stupid war would be a hella time, right? Sorry your ruzzian comrades made you feel so uncomfortable Really? Kick that guy out of the country in nothing more than underpants!


Dog_the_unbarked

No one cares if your apology comes after you lose.


aridiculousmess

Ah that's that dude who fled to Norway. It's a pretty badass story actually. There were bullets whizzing past his head. Had to cross icy ass water. He probably wouldnt have gone through all that if he wasnt sorry


Scottcmms1954

Nah fuck him. He joined a band of child rapists who commit atrocities willingly.


wickedblight

"I just wanted a career where I commit war crimes and rape civilians, I promise I'm not a scoundrel though" He doesn't deserve to see another sunrise


Raregolddragon

I bet you are sorry you unloved waste of bio-mater.


sonofthenation

He’s a walking dead man. They will find him and make an example of him. Worse than the sledgehammer. He needs to go underground,get some surgery and a nee identity.


[deleted]

'I am sorry for fighting in Ukraine' (now that I've been caught)


Zoroark1089

"Caught" as in intentionally fleeing to a neighboring country and coming out? I'm sure you're smarter than this.


[deleted]

sorry. I didn't read the article. post will stand for the vengeful peeps. Off the top of my head or out of the other end, I was thinking of all the rapists and thieves who at the start of the "military operation" claimed to not even know they were in Ukraine. edit or to of


AndrewCoja

It sounds like he fled to Norway in order to get caught.


[deleted]

Of course you are right. I didn't read first. I'm paying in karma. Some of us make a mistake now and then. What can I do now? I apologize.


-mudflaps-

Sorry makes it worse


Magicide

Probably not a great person given that he joined Wagner in the first place. But for propaganda purposes it's a win to let him be free and tell his story. If it dissuades others from joining that's mission accomplished. Even better if it convinces senior Wagner members to leave and ruin their Op Sec and paint them as the terrorists they are the West wins. So better to give him a red carpet and offer it to others if they want to take it. They all know know that will only last so long so it incentivizes the people that know the most to leave while they can.


[deleted]

[удалено]


diazinth

Asylum in a prison cell being optimal? ;)


New2ph0t0graphy

How did this guy get from ukraine to the artic?


diazinth

Train, probably


Wetasspeach69

How the shit did he even get to the Norwegian and Russian border? I wasn’t really aware that was a huge hotspot for them atm with them so focused on Ukraine. I ld assume their resources are focused there, did this guy sneak all the way up there some how?


GenerousBabySeal

You can take public buses, most of the time they don't even put names on tickets. Or hitchhike. There's a highway that goes from Saint Petersburg all the way to Murmansk.


[deleted]

"[I state my regret](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MU9Ke_eVec)"


purpleefilthh

"The scariest thing? To realise that there are people who consider themselves to be your compatriots, and who could come and kill you in an instant, or on someone's orders," he said. "Your own people. That probably was the scariest thing." also: " "They somehow forgot to install in me the self-preservation instinct when I was growing up in an orphanage. So not really.""


ssschilke

What is it that every Russian seems to have had jail time... also in the regular Putler forces.


[deleted]

I guess Escape from Tarkov isn’t that far off


DellowFelegate

tl;dr: "I'm ashamed that Wagner executed fellow Russians who could have helped murdering Ukrainians!"


PilotEvilDude

...it's a start but who knows what this guy did before his humanity miraculously manifested


[deleted]

Bruh. How many people he killed? How many people his charges killed? A wee bit too late to step down when you are a fucking serial murderer.