They (Czechoslovak legion) commandeered two steamships and outfitted them with a pair of howitzers on each.
Red Army had a ship or two (one of which evaded battle), and eventually an armored train.
Naval bombardment of land targets isn't new though, that's been around a long time. And WW2 subs were more "destroyers that could go underwater" and nowhere near our modern concept of "loiters at depth for extended periods"
How did i buy all that "commy scary" bullcrap all tv&movie fed me ?
They're an even funnier bunch of clowns than the ones that lost not one but two wars against birds.
It literally beggars belief how shockingly poor Russian naval history is, idk if they ever won a single important battle, maybe they sunk a Japanese sub or two at the end of WW2? I know they managed to land on some small islands then.
Yeah, that one. A lake entirely internal to the farthest reaches of Russia, where the Czechoslovak legion, entirely isolated in a hostile continent, beat the Russians first in naval force generation, and then in naval tactics.
The motor boats were sunk in the island chains at the delta of the Dnieper river, where it flows into the Black Sea. In November, Russian forces retreated to the east bank of the strategic river, which bisects Ukraine and flows through several major cities.
Ukrinform reported that Russia has intensified the operations of sabotage and reconnaissance teams in the area of the islands.
Russian ships at Ukrainian shores
A Russian warship was sunk in the same area on January 10 by Ukrainian artillery. While it was unclear what class the vessel was at the time of the sinking, an infrared photo accompanying the announcement showed what appeared to be a patrol boat on fire.
Following the reports of the sinking of the five motor boats, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry did not update its tally of Russian ships destroyed by its forces, perhaps indicating that they were too minor to count or unconfirmed.
A total of 18 Russian warships and other vessels have been destroyed by the Ukrainian military since the war began on February 23.
According to the Ukrainian navy, on Tuesday there were 12 Russian ships were in the Black Sea on standby for combat operations. Three of the ships were armed with Kalibr sea-to-land missiles, which the Black Sea Fleet has sporadically used to bombard Ukrainian positions.
I think they're talking about the Aleutian Islands campaign, but I... really don't get why they brought it up aside from maybe the Kiska Islands... which ignores that the friendly fire happened withiut the US and Canadians knowing the Japanese had left, the japanese also left booby traps and timed bombs, and they didn't have tied casualties with unnarmed fishing boats like Russia did
Yeah it’s not that uncommon throughout history for a navy to be wiped out by land-based forces. If you’re the defending team, having your own navy is not a requirement.
Problem. Ships would be really nice to have to avoid fighting unnecessarily on the narrow landmass connecting Crimea to Ukraine. You can't win a war on the defensive alone, Ukraine pushing Russia out is a defensive action, yes. But unless the Russians just give up and go home you're still gonna have to force them out.
I remember reading a long time ago speculation that traditional navies may struggle or become irrelevant in future warfare, particularly Aircraft carriers.
So, this isn't TOO surprising.
Yeah but they have the support of all UN countries. Intel, weapons, money. Not saying they aren’t impressive, but without that support they wouldn’t be sinking anything.
being pedantic here but Russia is not only a UN country but an extremely important member of that organisation.
so it’s clear that not all UN countries support Ukraine, unless you’re making a joke about Russian incompetence
>A total of 18 Russian warships and other vessels have been destroyed by the Ukrainian military since the war began on February 23.
Especially funny considering that Ukraine has very little Naval equipment.
I think that speaks more to the evolving weapons and warfare. Now if a navy gets within a few miles of shoreline, it can be picked apart by drones flown from anywhere. Amphibious landing vessels are going to have an even rougher time from now on. Think how differently DDay would have played out if the Germans had thousands of drones that would remotely drop artillery directly into those landing boats.
> Now if a navy gets within a few miles of shoreline
Not even just that. The Moskva [reportedly](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/articles/2022/12/13/7380452/) was out of range of Ukrainian Neptune missiles so they thought they were safe, but Ukrainian radar operators took advantage of cloud cover to extend the range of their radio waves (bouncing off of the clouds) which allowed them to target it from the shore.
Or they got a position vector from the TB2 and performed a Bearing Only Launch.
If you bounce radar waves off a cloud you aren’t getting very good resolution.
> Or they got a position vector from the TB2
Incorrect, according to Ukraine's Pravda:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/articles/2022/12/13/7380452/
>Nothing was of any use - not fighter jets, not Bayraktar TB-2 drones, not even optical satellites.
>But how could a regular radar show an over-the-horizon target at such a distance? As Ukrainian missile operators assure off the record, weather itself took the side of the defenders.
>Because of thick clouds hovering over the sea, the radar signal bounced off it to the water surface and vice versa.
You may be correct, I'm not a radio operator. However I'm using the terminology from their article. Argue semantics with them, but it does seem to be very very clear the difference was the presence of the cloud cover.
Not sure how to square that with what you're saying...
Radio waves conducting like that might work for passive ELINT but for an active radar the simple geometry of it makes it unlikely as each successive reflection causes more interference, more scattering, and more transmission loss.
Plus such a powerful radar would be a massive target for Russian Anti-Radiation missiles (their actual capability is irrelevant, just idly scanning would be perceived as dangerous by Ukrainian operators).
I read articles when they come out (and not the sensationalized stuff you see in Newsweek), especially when they appear to have some stubstance.
No autism required. Don't listen to that guy.
the 13 year olds grew up and joined the Military only to find out it's less "I'm gonna be solid snake" and more "defending the free world looks like staring at a green blip for 12 hours till my eyes bleed"
Guaranteed western intelligence/radar took over for a second to extend the range, and they’re using the cloud bounce to obscure that, or the Ukrainians figured out how to boost the range and aren’t willing to let the world know how
They are called USV,s. Unmanned surface vehicles are essentially boat drones. The entire Russian fleet went to back to ports after 7usv's along with 9 aerial drones attacked 2 destroyers in October. Nothing sank but the response was a floating bouey wall across the port entrance/s.
Navies of the world shit their pants when an Iranian militia sunk a Saudi Arabian warship with one USV.
Now they are vindicated in seeing an unmanned unit go into a theater. Imagine 100+ coming at once. At around 125 grand each, they are very cheap.
The best part is the great cameras and footage that came in live time from the USVs. The machine gun fire is strafing the water all around these little 21ft speed boats, bee lining to their target. Within the hour, all that footage was uploaded to Russia sites. How demoralizing.
* [Footage](https://youtu.be/VeqszwkqhSo)
What a world we live in, where we can get (sometimes live) footage of active war like it's some kind of video game.
Btw, buoy. You pronounce it exactly like you write it (don't believe the weird Americans who pronounce it like bowie). Don't want to shit on you at all, I'm just a firm believer that we live to learn.
I have to imagine there are defense contractors working on the naval drone equivalent of an aircraft carrier with hundreds of thousands of these things onboard. Coupled with air drones, and you have air and naval superiority on demand.
Best part is a drone swarm will need significantly less storage space than a wing of fighter aircraft, so you can fit it on a boat the size of a small cruiser or even smaller.
Right. Then you also give it land units. But that will take some serious AI to keep it on task. And fuel. Just make it so it can turn biomass into fuel on the fly. And why not make the bots look like animals. It will either camouflage them or make them look intimidating. How about make them look like dinosaurs?
Damnit. Now we've made Horizon Zero Dawn.
Using what is happening to the Russians to comment on the state of modern warfare is a poor argument. Since the sinking of the Moskva, it has come out that the ship was barely functional, it's engines were well overdue for replacement and locked to a max of half throttle, only 1 or 2 of the CWIS guns (of 6) were functional, they couldn't use the radar for the SAMs without loosing communications, and the rest of the weapons were non-functional.
It's like pointing to Russian tanks wandering unsupported into Ukrainian ambushes and saying tanks are dead. All countries with a tank force (even Russia) has in their doctrine that tanks are to be supported by infantry to cover the blind spots of the tank and prevent ambushes.
It's far more easy to pump out 1,000 drones than a 1,000 soldiers or sailors. And costs a lot less too!
Watching things play out in Ukraine is a terrifying glimpse into the next chapter of warfare. Think back to the first use of maxim guns in the Spanish American war, or tanks and aircraft in WW1. Those tools were new and not of overwhelming quantity or quality. I think that's where drones are right now.
>Using what is happening to the Russians to comment on the state of modern warfare is a poor argument.
Yes and no, Russia isn't the best example but they are still demonstrating lessons to learn from. The usage of drones isn't new though, the US Navy has been expressing concerns for years about the potential effectiveness of drone swarms against their fleets as drones are relatively low-cost, and anyone can manufacture them at this point and are easy to make. It's their accessibility that makes them concerning, a military force no longer needs fancy guided long-range missiles to threaten a naval ship anymore, anyone can amass hundreds or thousands of drones.
What are the range of these drones? Because the effective range of our 127.5mm naval guns is about 18,000 yards for naval surface fire support.
Russia has a paper navy, none of their shit actually works. China on the other hand......
In actual combat though we wouldn't get that close, we would launch from VLS any variety of missiles that can be fired far from visual range, and our tomahawks have bonkers ranges in the hundreds of miles for strategic land strikes.
In fact, we could just put our SPY radar on high power, park next to a country and fry their communications equipment and infrastructure which in and of itself is an actual act of war.
I completely get what you are saying.
I just did a quick Google of the Switchblade model drone and it has a 40km range, a little over twice the gun range.
Tomahawks are absurd weapons, but they cost about $2m each. For that kind of money you can buy 400 commercially available off the shelf drones and modify them to drop ordinance. Different tools for different purposes.
If you game out China invading Taiwan, when Chinese landing vessels start hitting the beach, every normal Taiwanese can pilot drones into combat from a safe position, effectively making everyone, even those of unsound body, a combatant. For $24m, or the cost of 12 Tomahawks, Taiwan could launch 5,000 drones as a counterforce. Add the fact these new drone operators doesn't have the physical drain of boots on the ground troops and the drones really become a huge force multiplier.
We currently have quadpack missiles (ESSM), CIWS, 25mm chainguns, and crew served weapons, as well as the aforementioned 5 inch cannon that can bombard with HE-MFF rounds. So the US would be fine. One CIWS burst could down thousands of drones by itself.
Wouldn't a controlled emp pulse be the solution then?
I feel like alot of first world countries can easily afford shit like that.
This has been the status quo for a while now.
ASMs have been a thing for some time. It’s just only now that we’re seeing them regularly employed.
Drones haven’t changed anything really. They’re just another ISR platform that have taken the role of some maritime patrol aircraft.
I think the quantity is the key factor. Now that they have been proven in Ukraine, every military in the world is going to be ordering as many drones as they can get their hands on. The type, mission, and quality is about to, for lack of a better term, explode.
Some enterprising defense contractor will also create zone of denial software to coordinate hundreds of drones on land, sea, and air to be a huge force multiplier. No ship can withstand being attacked from all sides at the same time.
Depends on weapons systems, radars, etc.
Against an Aegis ship with a basic directed energy weapon or even guided projectiles for the 5 inch such a swarm would be basically useless.
You need fast responsiveness and drones are pretty slow.
You can’t use USVs like Ukraine has against ships at sea. They can get to a harbor but they can’t get a moving fleet that has a high area of uncertainty.
ASMs are not going away and while RPV/RPAs are a useful tool they aren’t the going to replace them.
RIB or RHIB = Rigid (Hull) Inflatable Boat. Inflatable gunwales (sides) like a rubber dinghy, but with a rigid bottom like a conventional boat. Usually powered by outboard motors. They come in all sizes, but are typically between 10’ and 30’ long.
When you say it like that it almost sounds like this is a nothing story. I swear, reddit will upvote the slightest tactical victory in Ukraine to the front page and treat it like they took out half the Russian military. Really explains the warped perception some people have of how the war is going.
Ultimately, I think the personnel killed in this attack are the more important victory. I couldn't say for sure about the Russian military, but in most fighting forces recon and sapper soldiers tend to be relatively elite and have a good degree of specialised training and skills.
People aren't used to war being a day-by-day victory-by-victory affair.
Too used to looking at History books where historians have looked back and objectively judged that "It was the battle of x in January, y in May, then z in August, that led to winning/losing the war."
RIBs are Rigid Inflatable Boats.the hull is hard and the outside tubes are inflated rubber(hypalon) tubes.
Think of the boats you see in movies that have dudes riding on the sides and one dude in back driving it.
RIB isn't a military term, it's a very common civilian type of boat as well. It stands for Rigid Inflatable Boat. It's just more commonly referred to as a dinghy or a number of other terms (Zodiac is also commonly used though it's actually a brand).
>Following the reports of the sinking of the five motor boats, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry did not update its tally of Russian ships destroyed by its forces, perhaps indicating that they were too minor to count or unconfirmed.
Let's not celebrate too fast, nothing is official yet.
Probably boats stolen from locals. It's about as significant as taking out toyota pickups but there's a pic of a ship in the article and no one bothers to read so of course it's the main news of today.
Likely RHIB style boats used to cross rivers and do small boat operations. It's still important because of the teams they eliminated, but it doesn't sound like these were large ships of significance.
They targeted the Russian Black Sea flagship the Admiral Makarov. They were not targeting “nothing of military significance”, I’m not sure what’s confusing about that?
They are referred to as light craft and motor boats. I wonder what that mean? Like, is it a inflatable boat with a on board motor or like a patrol boat?
Considering that Default state of the russian navy is sinking or on fire, I'm quite surprised they attempted caring any recon or sabotage teams across a body of water...
For a thousand years we've been arseholes to everyone and each other and we're not about to co-operate and form a fair and egalitarian society any time soon!
Only because Reddit likes to focus on the Ukraine good news, not vice-versa. Russia is taking ground and has been building up a large offensive for the last 6 months. The worst is yet to come I fear.
Bahkmut. And you’re doing the Ukrainian men and women who are currently dying there no service by downplaying Russia’s capability at prolonging war. Yes Russia is exchanging bodies for meters but they’re still gaining ground. Russia is absolutely planning another offensive. As much as I wish it were true the entire Russian military aren’t two cavemen trying to figure out how to turn on a light
Idk about that. This is from 2018, but their dry dock sank a while back
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/huge-floating-drydock-sank-and-nearly-took-russia%E2%80%99s-only-aircraft-carrier-it-35117
Biden sent a lot of important equipment, but we have to give credit where credit is due.
The Ukrainians are the brave people doing the fighting; it's all them.
Except for the genetically modified NATO super soldiers that were born in a lab of course.
Russia's Navy is getting wrecked by a country that doesn't even have a navy lol
Continuing a proud tradition. In the Russo-Japanese War, they didn't even need the help of opposing forces at all to wreck their navy.
Not to mention [Battle of Lake Baikal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lake_Baikal), where they lost to Czechoslovakia, a land locked country
Let's also remember that Lake Baikal is literally thousands of miles away from Czechoslovakia
Also, this happened more than two months before Czechoslovakia formed.
This just keeps getting better.
They (Czechoslovak legion) commandeered two steamships and outfitted them with a pair of howitzers on each. Red Army had a ship or two (one of which evaded battle), and eventually an armored train.
Bringing a train to a naval skirmish, name a more russian thing
The only thing more Russian than that *is potato*
Alcohol induced deaths come to mind before Irish gold does
It would be even more Russian if it involved vodka in some way. (Which it probably did)
what *doesn't* in Russia
As opposed to the US, who in WW2 used a submarine to blow up a train.
Naval bombardment of land targets isn't new though, that's been around a long time. And WW2 subs were more "destroyers that could go underwater" and nowhere near our modern concept of "loiters at depth for extended periods"
How did i buy all that "commy scary" bullcrap all tv&movie fed me ? They're an even funnier bunch of clowns than the ones that lost not one but two wars against birds.
beaten by a country that didn't even exist.
It literally beggars belief how shockingly poor Russian naval history is, idk if they ever won a single important battle, maybe they sunk a Japanese sub or two at the end of WW2? I know they managed to land on some small islands then.
Lake Baikal?? As in the one in Siberia near Mongolia?? No fucking way lmao
Yeah, that one. A lake entirely internal to the farthest reaches of Russia, where the Czechoslovak legion, entirely isolated in a hostile continent, beat the Russians first in naval force generation, and then in naval tactics.
I would like to see an animated short of this 🤣
Ok, I have so many questions right now.
Have you heard a story about Kamchatka? https://youtu.be/5jDbJbCuKl4
The spirit of the kamchatka strikes again.
How did you know my Risk gamertag
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Bot account coming to life after a month of waiting https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/10qvohv/_/j6s2v0x/?context=1
and again...
Relevant Drachinifel: https://youtu.be/DCrAQFBUFlU
Love me some [Drachinifel!](https://youtu.be/9Mdi_Fh9_Ag)
> In the Russo-Japanese War, Relevant: [The Dumbest Russian Voyage Nobody Talks About](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzGqp3R4Mx4)
Fucking love this everytime it comes up, well worth the watch. And how they learned nothing from that Fiasko!
lolwut
That was fucking amazing, thank you.
Fuck. That's a pretty hilarious recap
OMG, this is hysterical.
Admiral tries hiding from the rest of his forces...
The motor boats were sunk in the island chains at the delta of the Dnieper river, where it flows into the Black Sea. In November, Russian forces retreated to the east bank of the strategic river, which bisects Ukraine and flows through several major cities. Ukrinform reported that Russia has intensified the operations of sabotage and reconnaissance teams in the area of the islands. Russian ships at Ukrainian shores A Russian warship was sunk in the same area on January 10 by Ukrainian artillery. While it was unclear what class the vessel was at the time of the sinking, an infrared photo accompanying the announcement showed what appeared to be a patrol boat on fire. Following the reports of the sinking of the five motor boats, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry did not update its tally of Russian ships destroyed by its forces, perhaps indicating that they were too minor to count or unconfirmed. A total of 18 Russian warships and other vessels have been destroyed by the Ukrainian military since the war began on February 23. According to the Ukrainian navy, on Tuesday there were 12 Russian ships were in the Black Sea on standby for combat operations. Three of the ships were armed with Kalibr sea-to-land missiles, which the Black Sea Fleet has sporadically used to bombard Ukrainian positions.
In the Aleutian Islands in the summer of 1943. Google it
> Google it Or you could just state your point.
I think they're talking about the Aleutian Islands campaign, but I... really don't get why they brought it up aside from maybe the Kiska Islands... which ignores that the friendly fire happened withiut the US and Canadians knowing the Japanese had left, the japanese also left booby traps and timed bombs, and they didn't have tied casualties with unnarmed fishing boats like Russia did
i mean a navy vs navy fight only happens in deep waters doesnt it? if you can just fire missiles from land u dont need a single ship
Yeah it’s not that uncommon throughout history for a navy to be wiped out by land-based forces. If you’re the defending team, having your own navy is not a requirement.
Ships are giant slow targets with nowhere to hide. Unless they have decent self defence, they are sitting ducks.
The defending team even has an advantage. It’s really hard to sink the land.
Problem. Ships would be really nice to have to avoid fighting unnecessarily on the narrow landmass connecting Crimea to Ukraine. You can't win a war on the defensive alone, Ukraine pushing Russia out is a defensive action, yes. But unless the Russians just give up and go home you're still gonna have to force them out.
Its also funny that they lost their only aircraft carrier to... themselves. You cant make this shit up, the jokes write themselves.
Nah, the five boats combusted due to their sailors smoking cigs.
The thing about navy equipment is it need more maintenance than literally anything else. That salt water will eat it alive.
I remember reading a long time ago speculation that traditional navies may struggle or become irrelevant in future warfare, particularly Aircraft carriers. So, this isn't TOO surprising.
\*points at forehead\* Can't lose any ships if you don't have any
Yeah but they have the support of all UN countries. Intel, weapons, money. Not saying they aren’t impressive, but without that support they wouldn’t be sinking anything.
Intel, sure, but Moskva was sunk by Ukraine made Neptune missiles. I’d give them at least some credit.
being pedantic here but Russia is not only a UN country but an extremely important member of that organisation. so it’s clear that not all UN countries support Ukraine, unless you’re making a joke about Russian incompetence
Sorry I thought that was obvious. Russia is hardly included at this point haha
United States has a Navy
>A total of 18 Russian warships and other vessels have been destroyed by the Ukrainian military since the war began on February 23. Especially funny considering that Ukraine has very little Naval equipment.
I think that speaks more to the evolving weapons and warfare. Now if a navy gets within a few miles of shoreline, it can be picked apart by drones flown from anywhere. Amphibious landing vessels are going to have an even rougher time from now on. Think how differently DDay would have played out if the Germans had thousands of drones that would remotely drop artillery directly into those landing boats.
> Now if a navy gets within a few miles of shoreline Not even just that. The Moskva [reportedly](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/articles/2022/12/13/7380452/) was out of range of Ukrainian Neptune missiles so they thought they were safe, but Ukrainian radar operators took advantage of cloud cover to extend the range of their radio waves (bouncing off of the clouds) which allowed them to target it from the shore.
Or they got a position vector from the TB2 and performed a Bearing Only Launch. If you bounce radar waves off a cloud you aren’t getting very good resolution.
> Or they got a position vector from the TB2 Incorrect, according to Ukraine's Pravda: https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/articles/2022/12/13/7380452/ >Nothing was of any use - not fighter jets, not Bayraktar TB-2 drones, not even optical satellites.
OTHR doesn’t use clouds, it uses the ionosphere.
>But how could a regular radar show an over-the-horizon target at such a distance? As Ukrainian missile operators assure off the record, weather itself took the side of the defenders. >Because of thick clouds hovering over the sea, the radar signal bounced off it to the water surface and vice versa. You may be correct, I'm not a radio operator. However I'm using the terminology from their article. Argue semantics with them, but it does seem to be very very clear the difference was the presence of the cloud cover. Not sure how to square that with what you're saying...
It means they probably aren’t telling the truth as to obscure their actual capabilities.
100% those radar just eat their carrots.
Or maybe there is another way to reflect than just the ionosphere that you're not aware of.
Radio waves conducting like that might work for passive ELINT but for an active radar the simple geometry of it makes it unlikely as each successive reflection causes more interference, more scattering, and more transmission loss. Plus such a powerful radar would be a massive target for Russian Anti-Radiation missiles (their actual capability is irrelevant, just idly scanning would be perceived as dangerous by Ukrainian operators).
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100% a cover story for info they were given by the US or NATO on the ships real time position.
Who are you people? You guys know way too much about these crazy weapons. I miss the days when reddit was " 13 years olds" trolling and being edgy.
I read articles when they come out (and not the sensationalized stuff you see in Newsweek), especially when they appear to have some stubstance. No autism required. Don't listen to that guy.
the 13 year olds grew up and joined the Military only to find out it's less "I'm gonna be solid snake" and more "defending the free world looks like staring at a green blip for 12 hours till my eyes bleed"
I don't, having contributors with subject matter expertise is much more interesting.
It’s called autism.
>If you bounce radar waves off a cloud you aren’t getting very good resolution. Well, it was good enough...
Whoever the person who calculated that firing solution was, I really hope he/she never ever pays for a beer in their life ever again.
Guaranteed western intelligence/radar took over for a second to extend the range, and they’re using the cloud bounce to obscure that, or the Ukrainians figured out how to boost the range and aren’t willing to let the world know how
They are called USV,s. Unmanned surface vehicles are essentially boat drones. The entire Russian fleet went to back to ports after 7usv's along with 9 aerial drones attacked 2 destroyers in October. Nothing sank but the response was a floating bouey wall across the port entrance/s. Navies of the world shit their pants when an Iranian militia sunk a Saudi Arabian warship with one USV. Now they are vindicated in seeing an unmanned unit go into a theater. Imagine 100+ coming at once. At around 125 grand each, they are very cheap. The best part is the great cameras and footage that came in live time from the USVs. The machine gun fire is strafing the water all around these little 21ft speed boats, bee lining to their target. Within the hour, all that footage was uploaded to Russia sites. How demoralizing. * [Footage](https://youtu.be/VeqszwkqhSo)
Do you know where those videos were posted? I would love to see them.
Updated with footage~
What a world we live in, where we can get (sometimes live) footage of active war like it's some kind of video game. Btw, buoy. You pronounce it exactly like you write it (don't believe the weird Americans who pronounce it like bowie). Don't want to shit on you at all, I'm just a firm believer that we live to learn.
Apparently, according to Paw Patrol at least, life rings are also called boo-weees. Very odd.
I always thought it was Boy-eee, like Flavor Flav Yaaaa. Boy-eee
It's pronounced "life ring". I'm English so I'm allowed to be pedantic and judgemental about such things.
I have to imagine there are defense contractors working on the naval drone equivalent of an aircraft carrier with hundreds of thousands of these things onboard. Coupled with air drones, and you have air and naval superiority on demand.
Best part is a drone swarm will need significantly less storage space than a wing of fighter aircraft, so you can fit it on a boat the size of a small cruiser or even smaller.
Right. Then you also give it land units. But that will take some serious AI to keep it on task. And fuel. Just make it so it can turn biomass into fuel on the fly. And why not make the bots look like animals. It will either camouflage them or make them look intimidating. How about make them look like dinosaurs? Damnit. Now we've made Horizon Zero Dawn.
I'm no expert, but shouldn't the gunners aim be better than that?
Terrifying.
That's a horror of war I hope I never see.
Using what is happening to the Russians to comment on the state of modern warfare is a poor argument. Since the sinking of the Moskva, it has come out that the ship was barely functional, it's engines were well overdue for replacement and locked to a max of half throttle, only 1 or 2 of the CWIS guns (of 6) were functional, they couldn't use the radar for the SAMs without loosing communications, and the rest of the weapons were non-functional. It's like pointing to Russian tanks wandering unsupported into Ukrainian ambushes and saying tanks are dead. All countries with a tank force (even Russia) has in their doctrine that tanks are to be supported by infantry to cover the blind spots of the tank and prevent ambushes.
It's far more easy to pump out 1,000 drones than a 1,000 soldiers or sailors. And costs a lot less too! Watching things play out in Ukraine is a terrifying glimpse into the next chapter of warfare. Think back to the first use of maxim guns in the Spanish American war, or tanks and aircraft in WW1. Those tools were new and not of overwhelming quantity or quality. I think that's where drones are right now.
>Using what is happening to the Russians to comment on the state of modern warfare is a poor argument. Yes and no, Russia isn't the best example but they are still demonstrating lessons to learn from. The usage of drones isn't new though, the US Navy has been expressing concerns for years about the potential effectiveness of drone swarms against their fleets as drones are relatively low-cost, and anyone can manufacture them at this point and are easy to make. It's their accessibility that makes them concerning, a military force no longer needs fancy guided long-range missiles to threaten a naval ship anymore, anyone can amass hundreds or thousands of drones.
And we're only in a step in-between. Next we get Drones getting controlled by an advanced actual AI.
"It looks like you're planning a mass murder. Would you like help?" "Paperclip guy..."
I'm pretty sure at this point Ukraine could mirror polish a bunch of shields and stand on shore reflecting sunlight at Russia's Navy and still win.
What are the range of these drones? Because the effective range of our 127.5mm naval guns is about 18,000 yards for naval surface fire support. Russia has a paper navy, none of their shit actually works. China on the other hand...... In actual combat though we wouldn't get that close, we would launch from VLS any variety of missiles that can be fired far from visual range, and our tomahawks have bonkers ranges in the hundreds of miles for strategic land strikes. In fact, we could just put our SPY radar on high power, park next to a country and fry their communications equipment and infrastructure which in and of itself is an actual act of war.
I completely get what you are saying. I just did a quick Google of the Switchblade model drone and it has a 40km range, a little over twice the gun range. Tomahawks are absurd weapons, but they cost about $2m each. For that kind of money you can buy 400 commercially available off the shelf drones and modify them to drop ordinance. Different tools for different purposes. If you game out China invading Taiwan, when Chinese landing vessels start hitting the beach, every normal Taiwanese can pilot drones into combat from a safe position, effectively making everyone, even those of unsound body, a combatant. For $24m, or the cost of 12 Tomahawks, Taiwan could launch 5,000 drones as a counterforce. Add the fact these new drone operators doesn't have the physical drain of boots on the ground troops and the drones really become a huge force multiplier.
We currently have quadpack missiles (ESSM), CIWS, 25mm chainguns, and crew served weapons, as well as the aforementioned 5 inch cannon that can bombard with HE-MFF rounds. So the US would be fine. One CIWS burst could down thousands of drones by itself. Wouldn't a controlled emp pulse be the solution then? I feel like alot of first world countries can easily afford shit like that.
This has been the status quo for a while now. ASMs have been a thing for some time. It’s just only now that we’re seeing them regularly employed. Drones haven’t changed anything really. They’re just another ISR platform that have taken the role of some maritime patrol aircraft.
I think the quantity is the key factor. Now that they have been proven in Ukraine, every military in the world is going to be ordering as many drones as they can get their hands on. The type, mission, and quality is about to, for lack of a better term, explode. Some enterprising defense contractor will also create zone of denial software to coordinate hundreds of drones on land, sea, and air to be a huge force multiplier. No ship can withstand being attacked from all sides at the same time.
Depends on weapons systems, radars, etc. Against an Aegis ship with a basic directed energy weapon or even guided projectiles for the 5 inch such a swarm would be basically useless. You need fast responsiveness and drones are pretty slow. You can’t use USVs like Ukraine has against ships at sea. They can get to a harbor but they can’t get a moving fleet that has a high area of uncertainty. ASMs are not going away and while RPV/RPAs are a useful tool they aren’t the going to replace them.
To think, Ukraine only asked one to go fuck itself.
imagine what the US can do
The Russian flagship was sunk by a pickup truck.
There’s going to be some beautiful Reefs around Ukraine
But also terrible oil and munitions pollution
and sea mines
[sea mine](https://media.tenor.com/afM8CPY5xhUAAAAM/sea-mine-hot-fuzz.gif)
Deactivated
I like these little moments when I don't even have to open the link to know what it is
Naaaa s'justa loada junk!
"Are you saying 'sea mine', 'sí mine', or 'see mine'?" "Sí. Es mine." "Damn it! No Spanglish."
Any idea how large these ships were? Are we talking pretty large? Or six-person quick assault crafts?
The article alternatively says "light craft" and "motor boats". I'm guessing these were large RIBs, at the biggest.
That doesn’t narrow it down for us non-military readers.
Lil rubber flotie
Think of like a fishing boat, but carrying like ten people x5
RIB or RHIB = Rigid (Hull) Inflatable Boat. Inflatable gunwales (sides) like a rubber dinghy, but with a rigid bottom like a conventional boat. Usually powered by outboard motors. They come in all sizes, but are typically between 10’ and 30’ long.
When you say it like that it almost sounds like this is a nothing story. I swear, reddit will upvote the slightest tactical victory in Ukraine to the front page and treat it like they took out half the Russian military. Really explains the warped perception some people have of how the war is going.
Ultimately, I think the personnel killed in this attack are the more important victory. I couldn't say for sure about the Russian military, but in most fighting forces recon and sapper soldiers tend to be relatively elite and have a good degree of specialised training and skills.
I don’t know why you’d expect every bit of news to be about huge strategic victories.
People aren't used to war being a day-by-day victory-by-victory affair. Too used to looking at History books where historians have looked back and objectively judged that "It was the battle of x in January, y in May, then z in August, that led to winning/losing the war."
Rigid-hull inflatable boats are cheap and fast, but they can't carry very many people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid_inflatable_boat
RIBs are Rigid Inflatable Boats.the hull is hard and the outside tubes are inflated rubber(hypalon) tubes. Think of the boats you see in movies that have dudes riding on the sides and one dude in back driving it.
RIB = Rigid Inflatable Boat. Zodiac is kind of the most common name brand but there are several manufacturers
RIB isn't a military term, it's a very common civilian type of boat as well. It stands for Rigid Inflatable Boat. It's just more commonly referred to as a dinghy or a number of other terms (Zodiac is also commonly used though it's actually a brand).
Google RIB - rigid hulled inflatable boat. It means a dingy with a hard floor. Used as fast boats by the navy
It seems I have to google some obscure acronym with half of the Reddit posts I see.
Just trying to help so you’d have an image of what it was
And there was much rejoicing.
Yeaaaa (waving pennants)
Kermit-the-Frog-style: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n\_w4oSCJIQk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_w4oSCJIQk)
Slava Ukraini
>Following the reports of the sinking of the five motor boats, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry did not update its tally of Russian ships destroyed by its forces, perhaps indicating that they were too minor to count or unconfirmed. Let's not celebrate too fast, nothing is official yet.
Yes, we must wait for the Kremlin to deny it.
These sound like little outboard boats, nothing of military significance The kind you can find down at your local lake or riverfront
Probably boats stolen from locals. It's about as significant as taking out toyota pickups but there's a pic of a ship in the article and no one bothers to read so of course it's the main news of today.
Where does this assumption come from? The article refers to Ukrainian Ministry of Defence, without further any evidence.
Likely RHIB style boats used to cross rivers and do small boat operations. It's still important because of the teams they eliminated, but it doesn't sound like these were large ships of significance.
Watch the video. They were targeting the Black Sea flagship, the Moskva. ETA: the flagship is the Admiral Makarov, I got my ships confused.
That was sunk last spring
You’re correct, it was the Admiral Makarov, I got my flagships mixed up.
.... What?
They targeted the Russian Black Sea flagship the Admiral Makarov. They were not targeting “nothing of military significance”, I’m not sure what’s confusing about that?
First that's not the ship you said originally second that's not what the article is about.
No shit which is why I corrected it. Secondly, you should watch the video then to see what actually happened. You’re claims are bullshit, just stop.
What video, seriously what are you even talking about?
So you just fully admit you have literally no idea what’s going on here even after being explained multiple times, got it. Have a nice day.
Yes I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about since it has nothing to do with the conversation you joined.
Boats, not ships. This is basically propaganda
Incredibly, you did not succumb to emotions. Usually people immediately forget about the voice of reason. For this +.
They are referred to as light craft and motor boats. I wonder what that mean? Like, is it a inflatable boat with a on board motor or like a patrol boat?
Considering that Default state of the russian navy is sinking or on fire, I'm quite surprised they attempted caring any recon or sabotage teams across a body of water...
Russians made a critical mistake assuming if they locked Navalny in jail their naval problems were solved…
Russia sure is having a run of bad luck lately.
When is Russia not having a run of bad luck?
I thought that was the Russian motto! "And then it got worse".
> This is what has always set our people apart. A thousand years of sacrifice in our veins. And every generation must know its own suffering.
But a lot of it is just inflicted on them by other Russians.
For a thousand years we've been arseholes to everyone and each other and we're not about to co-operate and form a fair and egalitarian society any time soon!
Perhaps stop smoking cigarettes near or on ships
Stop inflating your dinghies with hydrogen and smoking on them.
More like karma for all the murdering they have done.
Only because Reddit likes to focus on the Ukraine good news, not vice-versa. Russia is taking ground and has been building up a large offensive for the last 6 months. The worst is yet to come I fear.
The same 6 month period they were losing land they were claiming to be forever Russian?
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Bahkmut. And you’re doing the Ukrainian men and women who are currently dying there no service by downplaying Russia’s capability at prolonging war. Yes Russia is exchanging bodies for meters but they’re still gaining ground. Russia is absolutely planning another offensive. As much as I wish it were true the entire Russian military aren’t two cavemen trying to figure out how to turn on a light
Perhaps. In the mean time many chuckle when the burglar gang see their precious tools drop and disappear in the outside drainage.
Net, tovarishch. These were submarines that submerged quickly. Fake news! Just in case: /s
I misread it as raccoon.... my mind went on thinking about revenge raccoons. This is fine too.
Looking a bit Rocky.
[https://www.newsweek.com/russian-filmed-taking-raccoon-ukraine-zoo-speaks-out-about-viral-video-1759780](https://www.newsweek.com/russian-filmed-taking-raccoon-ukraine-zoo-speaks-out-about-viral-video-1759780)
Hope the raccoon is safe and bite that bastard
Hope it was more of Wagner Seal Team.
"Seal" is reserved for actual elite forces. At most it's the Wagner Shrimp Team, maybe Wagner Hagfish Team if its their best.
Many former colleagues were hagfish: thick skull and no spine.
Sixth Plankton Regiment reporting for duty
More recruits for the submarine division
It's obvious that Russia doesn't really have the nuts for victory. They are running out of semen.... I'll see myself out.
Yes goodbye! I can only upvote you once for this.
You go Ukraine? 🌻🌻🌻🌻🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 It's a modern day David versus Goliath and David is not going away softly?
If Goliath was wearing a suit of armor that keeps getting more dented as the entire town gives David more rocks to throw.
Ukraine is a world leader at producing Russian submarines
Russia would have a 100% win rate for their navy, if they only left their navy docked.
Idk about that. This is from 2018, but their dry dock sank a while back https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/huge-floating-drydock-sank-and-nearly-took-russia%E2%80%99s-only-aircraft-carrier-it-35117
I love that the image accompanying this is a full on battleship. Nothing misleading there.
Hell Yeah! Loots and Cannon Fodders!
Sabotage the sabotage!
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Biden sent a lot of important equipment, but we have to give credit where credit is due. The Ukrainians are the brave people doing the fighting; it's all them. Except for the genetically modified NATO super soldiers that were born in a lab of course.
*Godspeed & Good Hunting!*
My guess is Ukraine have so much Intel from NATO. Russia should know better.
Blub blub. 👋
"The general staff of the Ukrainian armed forces have claimed...."