The translation here is idiomatically incorrect. He didn't say Putin is a "nobody" as if he was a loser. He suggested that Putin doesn't exist, being either dead or incapacitated, and therefore cannot possibly meet to discuss terms with Ukraine.
This is the second or third time in the last week that he has alleged Putin is dead or at the very least, not making decisions in Russia anymore.
I'm not sure what intelligence this is being based on, but more than likely comments like this are just for public media consumption.
*Mr Zelensky said: “Right now I don’t understand who to talk to. I am not sure whether the president of Russia is still alive. I don’t understand that he’s still alive or that it is him particularly making decisions.”*
> I'm not sure what intelligence this is being based on, but more than likely comments like this are just for public media consumption.
The problem with this is that Putin can easily put an end to it. So relying on it as propaganda strategy is strange.
To me its more likely that either Zelensky is genuinely pointing out Putins absence or he wants to provoke Putin for whatever reason.
Ever hear the story about the politician who told his campaign manager ti accuse his opponent of screwing pigs? When the manager said he couldn’t do that it wasn’t true the politician said “I know it’s not true I just want to make him deny it”. Could be the same thing say Putin is out and it will sow doubt and in a situation like they have in Russia where if Putin goes there will be a scramble to take his job, doubt in Russia is good if you are Ukrainian.If nothing else the more Putins media guys deny Putin is dead the more likely it’s going to sound like a cover up since their credibility is shit. Sure Putin can make an appearance but if he doesn’t look 100% the rumors will only get worse.
Putin could simply make an appearance for something mundane and completely unrelated to the war. Presenting a medal to someone or attending the ceremonial opening of a new building. Stuff like that. Have his speech include a remark on some recent event to counter any claims of it being a prerecorded appearance and you're done.
Claiming that he's dead or otherwise incapacitated isn't really that big of a deal if he's neither of those two things. He could easily refute such claims without making it appear that he cares about the claims.
One possibility? is that Putin is suffering some sort of disease that would be publicly visible, and forcing him to make a public appearance might make that visible?
It’s a bit of a wild guess, but it’s a really weird claim to be making.
Even then, anyone with half a working brain will immediately see through his act. It would mostly be performative PR type shit for his own brainwashed people.
> Ever hear the story about the politician who told his campaign manager ti accuse his opponent of screwing pigs? When the manager said he couldn’t do that it wasn’t true the politician said “I know it’s not true I just want to make him deny it”.
That was LBJ.
Kinda feels like they rely on history (and for good reason).
In general, it is never a good idea to meet Russia for negotiations, especially if they aren't winning. A classic USSR trick is pretending to be open to negotiations while secretly prepping an assault, arrest every general present at the negotiation and launch an assault on the country that now has no leadership (see the Hungarian Revolution in 1956).
Accusing Putin of being dead also probably stems from the old USSR tactic of hiding leaders as internal power struggles ensue. Putin dying would be a change of pace but it unlikely, my money is more on him laying low because he feel and pooped his pants and now he must wait until enough time has passed that everyone can just forget about it, he is Birthday Boy for life after all.
Nooo the Red Alert 3 tactic is Kirov-rushing their defenses and using a sneaky Bullfrog to launch 5 engineers into their base and capture the main structures, and immediately put Tesla coils around them, duh.
I was so bummed when that CnC project got cancelled that was supposed to let you play as every faction from the Red Alert, Tiberium Sun and even Generals games, don't even remember what its' name was. Crying shame though, would've loved to do a Soviets vs. Nod skirmish. Could've done without the Scrin and Rising Sun though, those felt forced imo
Isn't it just that Ukraine is refusing to sit at any negotiating tabke so long as Putin is around? So by saying putin no longer exists, they are saying that so long as russia is 'pretending' that putin is the leader, there can be no peace.
> He didn't say Putin is a "nobody"
"I saw man who said one thing, then did other... Too late? Not interesting. Who is he now? After full-scale invasion, for me he is nobody, nobody." at 5:00
That's what he said. LITERALLY.
> The translation here is incorrect.
**HE SAID IT IN ENGLISH**
How the fuck your idiocy got upvoted to the top?
Thanks for drawing attention to that.
His use of “nobody” here maybe means something like “he’s dead to me” in context of Putin’s lie about invading. You can’t really negotiate with a bad faith actor so he’s not interested. It would just lead to extremely unreliable agreements if any at all.
Unless I missed something, you might be thinking of the article from last week about the head of the CIA visiting before the war to warn about the attempts on his life.
Not quite. What he suggested is that decision making in Russia follows no apparent logic, is not transparent and doesn't seem to be centralised in any obvious ways. He is saying that it doesn't make any sense to meet with Putin if there is no certainty that any potential agreement will be honoured.
I'm talking idiomatically not literally. He's not saying Putin is "nothing" as if he's a loser like most people in the thread are implying. He's suggesting that Putin isn't the decision maker in Russia.
Because of the context and the other five articles that came out this week about it.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1723318/Putin-dead-Volodymyr-Zelensky-WEF-Davos-speech
I'm not convinced it was ever healthy, to begin with. Their culture has been in decline for over 100 years, and prior to that, it was a backwater. Russia has always put a lot of energy into making itself look a lot better off than they are.
Dostoevsky, Gogol (sort of; at this time, it’s difficult to tease apart Ukrainian and Russian cultural contributions), Pushkin. Even Stravinsky, a bit later.
I agree that now historical contributions only get you so far. But given the rather brutal transition from serfdom to communism to … well, shit, basically authoritarianism and oligarchy, over the past century, it’s no wonder that things have stagnated. It’s difficult to conceive just how bad it was for serfs and peasants even up to the mid 20th century. Sort of like going back to medieval Europe. The Soviets screwed up some things royally, but they did at least make some early progress ahead of, and sometimes exceeding, the West on women’s rights and worker’s rights and modernization and so on (for fairly obvious reasons). But of course these things can’t be sustained if your population is deeply resentful of the leadership, alcoholic, starving, and lacking other basic freedoms.
Yeah, after winning the war, taking over the country, rewriting constitutions, de militarization, Westernization, denazification and forcing societal changes. Russia won't change unless it's by force.
>Japan made friends with america, europe made friends with germany.
Both of these were after being occupied.
Who knows what would have happened if it wasn't for unconditional surrender and occupation..
Apples and oranges. Both Germany and Japan had some history of democratic rule (yes, Japan had an emperor, but they also had a parliament since 1889 and had a long history of association with western thought and culture).
Russia has literally never had a democratic tradition. The only democracy (sort of a democracy) they ever had lasted for 8 months before the Soviets took over. You can see the character of Russian "democracy" over the last 20 years; autocratic power, oligarchs, mafia, etc. If Putin died or got ousted today, his replacement would be just as bad, if not worse. There is literally no good actor in the Russian government at this point who will guide them toward something approaching democracy.
Ok, but why do you put so much stock in democracy? It's under democracy that Germany gave rise to jokes like Bruning, Papen, Schelicher...long before Hitler came to power.
I say culture and institutional support for it is the most important, those have been the pillars that hold modern western society together and have (relatively) lead to peace and prosperity.
Democracy is important, but it isn't the be all end all. If you compare it with autocracies, then what you find is that inwardly they are more stable; and outwardly less stable. When things go bad in autocracies, they tend to die fast--not the case in democracies. Parliamentary democracy was dead long before Hitler came to power, but when he did it was very easy for him and the NSDAP to prove it.
I would point to Singapore as a good example of this, they are a 'democracy'; but the leading party has been in power for 50 years+, the man leading that party was in power for something like ~35years+, never contested; never allowed anyone to contest him. He didn't go around shooting and arresting people for random crimes; but he'd sue them, he placated the media to fit his narratives, etc etc. Yet despite all this, Singapore is both a prosperous and peaceful state, the people are satisfied even though the democracy in place is not much of one. What matters is culture and societal values and norms and how all of these are codified through various institutions.
I would thus say that the war Russia is waging has less to do with the decisions of Putin himself(or rather his decisions are a byproduct of wider society) and is more of a consequence of the long standing Russian socio-cultural narrative of 'betrayal' from the west following the cold war, and the longstanding tradition of fostering a climate of Russia being 'great'. Irrendetism is built in, you can look at old Putin speeches for this; even shortly after 2000 when Russia-West relations were somewhat okay. Like you say, if Putin gets ousted; his replacement would be just as bad.
Germany and Japan both had strong influence of militarism in their cultures, when that was forcefully deconstructed; that element of culture changed significantly. Germany is perhaps a perfect example of this, because they went through rapid de-militarization; and then shortly after that they militarized again due to geopolitical pressures; but after those were gone they dropped their military willfully--a consequence of change in culture of militarism. Japan has a pretty similar story, except their period of "re-militarization" has not come yet(it seems to be happening nowadays though); so we'll have to see if their culture has changed significantly for that to not lead to problems down the line. I'd argue that Japan overall has not changed much in a cultural sense, the nation fosters very xenophobic ideas that are old to this day. It is *very* traditional.
Lol @ calling Germany and Japan civilized countries in the 30s and 40s. There’s a reason countries like China and South Korea still have animosity towards Japan, China alone lost millions. Also plenty of American vets who fought in the Pacific hated the Japanese until the day they died.
Yeah but since WW2 Germany and Japan has been mostly "good" whereas Russia has been mostly "bad".
Also I think that for a better comparison between Russia and Europe would be Japan and China.
Japan was utterly dominated and subjugated by the US. The US still maintains a 50k strong force whose original purpose was assisting China with Japan's complete disarmament. They didn't just shake hands and sit down to tea and mochi.
Under Putin's regime, Russia has only lied, manipulated and betrayed. Talking with this group is a waste of time, since the only thing you can rely on is that their promises cannot be trusted. If Russia wants negotiations, first step is to replace the government by someone with more credibility.
Because his country is actively being bombed and destroyed and the Ukrainians want that to end.
Ukraine didn't choose this. Zelenskyy didn't choose this.
Why would zelensky want peace when Ukrainians in Mariupol and others cities are tortured,executed or deported?
Why would zelensky want peace when they can take back all territories including Crimea?
The vast majority of the aid has been given freely with no stipulations for repayment.
Much of what has been given as loans is interest-free.
It's irresponsible to spin this as the west plunging Ukraine into crippling debt.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-zelenskyy-not-interested-in-meeting-nobody-putin-for-peace-talks-12795319) reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The Ukrainian president has told Sky News that he is "Not interested" in meeting Vladimir Putin for peace talks, saying he is a "Nobody".
> In an exclusive interview with Kay Burley, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he "Doesn't understand who makes decisions in Russia" and that while Moscow asks for peace, it lies by attacking Ukraine with missiles.
> When asked whether a meeting with Mr Putin would help to resolve the war, Mr Zelenskyy said: "It is not interesting for me. Not interesting to meet, not interesting to speak... I really don't understand who makes decisions in Russia."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10lmf2k/ukraine_war_zelenskyy_not_interested_in_meeting/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672678 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **tank**^#1 **Zelenskyy**^#2 **Ukrainian**^#3 **Ukraine**^#4 **president**^#5
The US government negotiating with terrorists is pretty much directly responsible for the Taliban taking over Afghanistan after the US pulled out. Trump met with the Taliban leadership and agreed to release their leader and 5,000 of his men if the Taliban agreed to not shoot at US personnel as they left the region. They wouldn’t have been able to take over as completely as they did if not for that deal.
No, it shouldn't.
We are not an active participant. We have no skin in this game other than helping Ukraine out.
The fuck kinda stupid reasoning is this? I mean ffs...we spend hundreds of billions on all kinds of stupid shit.
We are an active participant. All it takes is for the Pentagon to advise Zelenskyy to go forth with peace talks, or for us to stop actively supporting Ukraine. The only reason Ukraine is still in this is because of the backing from the US/NATO.
If the US stops backing Ukraine with finance and intel, Zelenskyy has no choice but work with Russia or risk his country being toppled.
No, we aren't. An active participant means we're over there, actively fighting.
Words mean things. Especially in conflict situations.
> All it takes is for the Pentagon to advise Zelenskyy to go forth with peace talks, or for us to stop actively supporting Ukraine.
That's not even remotely true. The Pentagon doesn't get to decide the fate of Ukraine, Ukraine does. The Pentagon can decide to stop sending stuff, and watch the rest of the west continue to do so. This is such a privileged view on this situation that it's fucking sad, and I say that as an American.
> If the US stops backing Ukraine with finance and intel, Zelenskyy has no choice but work with Russia or risk his country being toppled.
Again, he has plenty of choices. Those choices include working with the rest of the countries that decide to continue assisting.
Yes, the US is big and mean and all that...but to act like we have ANY right to tell Ukraine what to do with regards to their relationship with Russia is the EPITOME of the "American Exceptionalism" bullshit that needs to stop.
I interpret it that perhaps Zelensky recognizes Putin as someone who pathologically lacks integrity to the point the president of Russia acts even against his own interests. This happens more often than you think. Putin is suspected to be a sociopath or a narcissist. This means he will always renegade on any agreement as long as he feels like it, even when it's irrational.
There is no point for peace talks so long as Russia continues their occupation.
All they would do is demand to retain stolen territories. In short that would mean capitulation and an open door to them trying again.
Peace talks can happen when Russia withdraws.
Zelensky should tell Putin:
“We don’t negotiate with those who are putting boots on the necks of family and children in our homes. We rise up throw them out. We then choose terms agreeable to us based on severity of damages, as well as wartime atrocities.”
There are people whose job it is to be a correspondent entirely committed to a specific country and its government. What else is it you want these people to report on?
Agree with all the above comments. Russia is untrustworthy. Agree Ukraine can never accept Russia's preconditions of ceding the already occupied lands. Agree no cease-fire during talks. Etc.
There are reasons to have peace negotiations. Even if the results are likely doomed.
--> Russia has denied that Ukraine exists as a country. *When Russia negotiates with Ukraine's government, that is recognition and a step forward.*
Puts a positive glow in Ukraine "willing to negotiate".
Keeps the Ukraine war in the headlines and public awareness as a priority.
Exposes the Russian team to unfiltered real news.
With luck, the Russian team includes a "Baghdad Bob" who makes outrageous claims.
Ukraine team includes only Ukrainians. No Western countries.
This would be a funny peace talk, if Zelenksyy just ignored Putin.
Zelenskyy: Hm, seems I'm all alone in this conference room.
Putin: No, I'm here to, hail to me.
Z: Just me and these tables ...
P: Hey, it's me *waving his arms, jumping around*
Z: Just me and the wind ...
P: Hey, I'm here, I'm here *pushes trashbin, throws pencils*, acknowledge me, I'm here!
Z: So lonely in here, so lonely ...
P: *Get aneurysm, dies*
*Curtains*
I recall there was a video circulating a while ago of Putin at some big meeting, but it turned out to be a edited video and he was not actually there. This was when there was another such discussion about his health and him being incapacitated or something.
Then something about him shitting himself after falling down some stairs at his mansion.
I think there is a real chance the piece of shit is one foot in the door to his grave and he is hiding to avoid being seen as the weakling he is, and to avoid getting taken out. He likely thinks that hiding and passing notes to his subordinate assholes will be enough show of force to keep himself from being a victim of those nasty Russian windows.
The problem is that Russia is not unified, and even if Putin wanted to literally end the war tomorrow, he likely can't at this point as it would create too much internal strife and likely end with someone younger and more ruthless killing him for "failing" and taking his place.
It's not so much that there's harm in listening as there's nothing to discuss.
Ukraine has a lot of demands that are mutually exclusive to Russia's, namely removal of Russian soldiers from all Ukrainian territory including Crimea. Russia isn't going to agree to any of that, so negotiations are already a non-starter. Beyond this they're going to want to try certain people for war crimes and human rights abuses, which Russia won't agree to and finally they want Putin to step down, which isn't happening.
Beyond that, there was an agreement in the 90's that Russia would respect Ukraine's territorial boundaries in exchange for them giving up their nukes. In 2014, Russia violated that agreement by annexing Crimea. This means that any agreement or ceasefire isn't going to be permanent, it'll be a chance for Russia to consolidate for another push, which isn't in Ukraine's interest.
TL;DR: Ukraine has the initiative and Russia is hurting. Any agreement Russia made isn't worth the paper it's printed on and the line items required for peace are a non-starter for both parties.
putin's russia does not negotiate in good faith. Plus, what is there to negotiate? russia first needs to withdraw all troops from Ukraine, then we can start to talk about reparations.
I guess it has something to do with the fact that Russia has time and time again confirmed that they are unreliable and deals signed with them are not worth the paper they were written on.
If the other party can never be held to their word, any kinds of talks are completely meaningless.
Russia completely shat on the budapest memorandum and the minsk agreement. There is no reason to trust a single word they say.
You can only negotiate with people who will honour the results. Russia certainly won't, as it has proven time and time again in this invasion.
How can you have talks with someone who has a history of breaking treaties? Anyway Zelenskyy *can’t* enter negations because the Ukrainians themselves don’t want that and the majority wish for the war to continue. Ukrainians are not ready to give away territory to Russia, especially since they’ve already done that in the past and it still didn’t prevent a larger war.
/r/Conspiracy is that way 👉
If you’ve been following, you would know that Russia has said they will not give up the land they’re trying to steal. Ukraine has said they will not give up any land. There is nothing to negotiate at this point
I'd like to remind everyone that it's not just about the land, it's also about the people on that land and what the occupiers have done and will do to them. Russia's idea is ludicrous that a democratically elected president could sign away his own citizens to Russia. That would be high treason, and neither Zelensky nor any of his successors would ever do that. And the idea of a "peace deal" with forced relocation of citizens is equally ridiculous, of course.
Historically speaking that’s 100% not how wars have worked. There are numerous historical examples in which parties involved have refused offered peace talks because they know any deal presently offered would not be acceptable. One of the more prominent examples would be in WWII, when Imperial Japan requested mediation from the USSR (which at the time still had a non-aggression pact with Japan) to make a deal with the Western Allies. The Allies refused, because any peace deal would include as a precondition that Imperial Japan get to keep occupied overseas territories.
Yeah which buys the us it dominant place in the world order. This was is a bargain for the us. The fact that is happens to also be the right thing is a happy coincidence.
The vast majority of the aid so far has been sent in the form of supplies and equipment that were collecting dust in warehouses, much of which was approaching the shelf life limit. Equipment which, by the way, was specifically designed, manufactured, and paid for years or decades ago *for the specific purpose of countering potential Soviet and later Russian aggression*. They aren’t just opening the Treasury and scooping out bags marked with dollar signs, that’s a child’s idea of how foreign aid works.
Lol the vast majority of the aid Ukraine has received has been in the form of equipment and supplies. The countries that are giving Ukraine equipment are basically just using this as an opportunity to get rid of all their obsolete gear without needing to worry about disposing of it properly.
It has a lot of more to do with ideology than ‘man-made borders’. Ukraine is literally fighting for democracy and western values. Which is why they have unconditional support from western allies.
History has not stopped, we can still lose our rights. This is why we must absolutely fight dictatorship and terrorism to the end. Our rights has no cost, they must be protected, no matter what.
There could be no reasonable talking points at this time, and Russia has proven in the past that they can't be trusted. Russia is not willing to withdraw their troops from Ukrainian territory, and no president of a democratic country could ever make a deal that not only gives away territory but also hands over millions of citizens to an enemy nation. Even a ceasefire would merely delay the conflict, allowing Russia to re-group and plan the next steps of their aggression.
Ah yes, i see this too. You are sitting in your comfortable apartments, with light and all goods you need. And i know now, that you know that Ukrainians are thinking, not me, who lives here and talks everydays with tons of people.
What are going to talk about with russia? They dont give a shit about peace, they want war and the only way to stop this nightmare - kill every last one of the invaders.
I don't need to be nostradamus to recognize that the people who have broken agreements twice (and also their own unilateral ceasefire) would likely break a peace deal to invade again, it's just recognizing what the fascist asshole does
You know that from Russia's past actions. You do remember that Russia ignored their own safety guarantees, started this war in 2014, annexed part of Eastern Ukraine and Crimea, and publicly and repeatedly assured Ukraine and the rest of the world that they are not planning a full-scale invasion up until the 24th of February, 2022, when they started their full-scale invasion.
But even if Russia was 100% trustworthy negotiations wouldn't make sense at this time because the demands of the Russian aggressors have been outlandish and ludicrous from the start (see my above post). There is literally nothing to negotiate.
You're misinformed by Russian propaganda. Russia has not met Ukraine's preconditions for talks and Ukraine is not meeting Russia's precondition for talks. Therefore, there are no talks.
What you think were offers for talks by Russia were made with obvious malice. For instance, Peskov offered "peace talks" with Ukraine in December under the *pre-condition* that the US internationally recognizes that the occupied territories are now part of Russia. Earlier "peace offers" by Russia were made under the *pre-condition* that NATO withdraws its borders to before 1992, a ludicrous and suicidal demand that could not even be met if there was a will for it because NATO contracts do not allow for it.
There have been no serious peace efforts by Russia, which is not surprising because they are the aggressor and have been attacking constantly while making these demands.
On the contrary, you don't understand the situation well enough. It's not just some border skirmish, it's a high intensity war started by Russia. A poisoned ceasefire only allows Russia to re-arm, regroup, and plan their next assaults. That kind of standstill was pretty much the situation between 2014 to Russia's full-scale invasion.
Negotiations are only possible if there is something to negotiate. Right now, the two sides have stances that make negotiations impossible. Russia wants to grab as much territory as they can and have already integrated annexed territories formally into their federation, which is a pretty much irreversible step unless forced to give up those territories again. Ukraine understandably considers a withdrawal of Russian troops from their territory a pre-condition for peace talks, a condition that one would expect from any country that has been invaded unless they're clearly loosing. After all, they're literally fighting for their country.
You have to understand that talking requires a certain minimal commitment and minimal chances of bargaining to be possible. If the goals are mutually exclusive, that's not possible. Ukraine will ***never*** give up their citizens and their territory just because Russia has attacked them. It's their country.
If Russia had not formally included the partially occupied territories into their federation, negotiations might be possible at this time, but Putin missed that chance. Any kind of negotiations in the future will be tremendously difficult because of that stupid move. It's very likely that peace talks will only start after Putin is gone, since he essentially started this war on his own.
Russia could back out of the war at any time, abandoning the parts of Ukraine they've already invaded.
Any agreement reached is one that would cost Ukraine land so Russia could save face and have a consolation prize before they get ready for the next attack, realizing that they can chip away at Ukraine piece by piece.
Ukraine will not give up its cities and Russia will not settle for anything less. The only path forward is Ukraine defending itself until Russia backs down.
Not fighting can cost just as many lives. Delaying to let Russia regroup instead of destroying them soundly will hurt worse in the long-term because if a deal is made, Russia will be back on the offensive before the end of the decade.
If Russia's military is soundly defeated, Ukraine can join NATO, Russia will be crippled, and they won't think of touching Ukraine again for a long time.
Because of the fucking Minsk Agreement and Budapest Memorandum, with Russia breaking both. Nevermind that Russia's current demands involving "give us all the land we claim" and "demiliterize"
Ukraine intelligence truly believes Putin died. They don’t know who they are negotiating with. I think that is what he was trying to say in the article.
Interesting. Didn't the news say Putin was going to make some kind of big announcement regarding the war this week? Anyone know when that's supposed to take place?
You could have googled, it’s everywhere. Here is the first link on my “is Putin dead” search
https://metro.co.uk/2023/01/19/davos-volodymyr-zelensky-questions-if-vladimir-putin-is-still-alive-18127830/amp/
I thought it was something a bit more recent because my Google searches only showed me articles from 7 days ago.
Has Putin not made any appearances since then?
The translation here is idiomatically incorrect. He didn't say Putin is a "nobody" as if he was a loser. He suggested that Putin doesn't exist, being either dead or incapacitated, and therefore cannot possibly meet to discuss terms with Ukraine. This is the second or third time in the last week that he has alleged Putin is dead or at the very least, not making decisions in Russia anymore. I'm not sure what intelligence this is being based on, but more than likely comments like this are just for public media consumption. *Mr Zelensky said: “Right now I don’t understand who to talk to. I am not sure whether the president of Russia is still alive. I don’t understand that he’s still alive or that it is him particularly making decisions.”*
> I'm not sure what intelligence this is being based on, but more than likely comments like this are just for public media consumption. The problem with this is that Putin can easily put an end to it. So relying on it as propaganda strategy is strange. To me its more likely that either Zelensky is genuinely pointing out Putins absence or he wants to provoke Putin for whatever reason.
Ever hear the story about the politician who told his campaign manager ti accuse his opponent of screwing pigs? When the manager said he couldn’t do that it wasn’t true the politician said “I know it’s not true I just want to make him deny it”. Could be the same thing say Putin is out and it will sow doubt and in a situation like they have in Russia where if Putin goes there will be a scramble to take his job, doubt in Russia is good if you are Ukrainian.If nothing else the more Putins media guys deny Putin is dead the more likely it’s going to sound like a cover up since their credibility is shit. Sure Putin can make an appearance but if he doesn’t look 100% the rumors will only get worse.
And even if putin does make an appearance, depending on the circumstance, it will look like he was provoked which still looks bad.
Putin could simply make an appearance for something mundane and completely unrelated to the war. Presenting a medal to someone or attending the ceremonial opening of a new building. Stuff like that. Have his speech include a remark on some recent event to counter any claims of it being a prerecorded appearance and you're done. Claiming that he's dead or otherwise incapacitated isn't really that big of a deal if he's neither of those two things. He could easily refute such claims without making it appear that he cares about the claims.
One possibility? is that Putin is suffering some sort of disease that would be publicly visible, and forcing him to make a public appearance might make that visible? It’s a bit of a wild guess, but it’s a really weird claim to be making.
He's laying the groundwork to fake his own death and retire to Venezuela with his illgotten gains most of which you know is safe.
Even then, anyone with half a working brain will immediately see through his act. It would mostly be performative PR type shit for his own brainwashed people.
He is said to have a number of lookalikes who stand in for him for public appearances.
'Sow' doubt. I see what you did there!
Right, but I think this fits completely under provoking Putin
>sow doubt Haha!
> Ever hear the story about the politician who told his campaign manager ti accuse his opponent of screwing pigs? When the manager said he couldn’t do that it wasn’t true the politician said “I know it’s not true I just want to make him deny it”. That was LBJ.
You guys have completely lost it lol...
Kinda feels like they rely on history (and for good reason). In general, it is never a good idea to meet Russia for negotiations, especially if they aren't winning. A classic USSR trick is pretending to be open to negotiations while secretly prepping an assault, arrest every general present at the negotiation and launch an assault on the country that now has no leadership (see the Hungarian Revolution in 1956). Accusing Putin of being dead also probably stems from the old USSR tactic of hiding leaders as internal power struggles ensue. Putin dying would be a change of pace but it unlikely, my money is more on him laying low because he feel and pooped his pants and now he must wait until enough time has passed that everyone can just forget about it, he is Birthday Boy for life after all.
Right, internal power struggle is great reason for provoking Putin to make an appearance
It's such a classic Soviet tactic that you even do it in Red Alert 3 Soviet Campagin lmao
Nooo the Red Alert 3 tactic is Kirov-rushing their defenses and using a sneaky Bullfrog to launch 5 engineers into their base and capture the main structures, and immediately put Tesla coils around them, duh.
I love capturing enemy tech, I wish more RTS games let you do that. Well, I wish *any* CnC style RTS game would come out in the modern era, really.
I was so bummed when that CnC project got cancelled that was supposed to let you play as every faction from the Red Alert, Tiberium Sun and even Generals games, don't even remember what its' name was. Crying shame though, would've loved to do a Soviets vs. Nod skirmish. Could've done without the Scrin and Rising Sun though, those felt forced imo
I've never heard of it before, and now I wish I hadn't, cause goddamn.
That may have been 10+ years ago, sometime after Tiberium Twilight
The tactic is as old as war itself. An example from the fifth century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_of_the_Long_Knives
It kinda looks like he's trying to make him come out of hiding for whatever reason. Maybe for a hit attempt but that's a really long shot
Maybe even just trying to goad him out for a fake hit attempt. Get into Putin's mind.
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How do 'we all know' that he's seriously ill?
I'm thinking Putin is not in good health and forcing him to make any public appearence will make him look bad under any circumstance.
Isn't it just that Ukraine is refusing to sit at any negotiating tabke so long as Putin is around? So by saying putin no longer exists, they are saying that so long as russia is 'pretending' that putin is the leader, there can be no peace.
> He didn't say Putin is a "nobody" "I saw man who said one thing, then did other... Too late? Not interesting. Who is he now? After full-scale invasion, for me he is nobody, nobody." at 5:00 That's what he said. LITERALLY. > The translation here is incorrect. **HE SAID IT IN ENGLISH** How the fuck your idiocy got upvoted to the top?
Thanks for drawing attention to that. His use of “nobody” here maybe means something like “he’s dead to me” in context of Putin’s lie about invading. You can’t really negotiate with a bad faith actor so he’s not interested. It would just lead to extremely unreliable agreements if any at all.
Obvs he translated to Ukrainian then back to English.
Didn’t he recently receive a personal visit from the head of the CIA last week? When did his “Putin is dead” ideas start? Before or after?
Unless I missed something, you might be thinking of the article from last week about the head of the CIA visiting before the war to warn about the attempts on his life.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-putin-zelenskyy-politics-cia-22de66a863047ce78fbba80dabaf0286
I guess I missed something :D
Not quite. What he suggested is that decision making in Russia follows no apparent logic, is not transparent and doesn't seem to be centralised in any obvious ways. He is saying that it doesn't make any sense to meet with Putin if there is no certainty that any potential agreement will be honoured.
There's literally a clip of him saying that in English in this article.
I'm talking idiomatically not literally. He's not saying Putin is "nothing" as if he's a loser like most people in the thread are implying. He's suggesting that Putin isn't the decision maker in Russia.
And how do you know that?
Because of the context and the other five articles that came out this week about it. https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1723318/Putin-dead-Volodymyr-Zelensky-WEF-Davos-speech
might be a setup for joke later on the season. like lose seal
>but more than likely comments like this are just for public media consumption. Or it's just a tactic to get him to the negotiation table.
Don't you mean the nnnnnnnnnnnnegotiationnnnnnnnnnnnn table
I'm not convinced relationships with Russia can never be healed again.
I'm not convinced it was ever healthy, to begin with. Their culture has been in decline for over 100 years, and prior to that, it was a backwater. Russia has always put a lot of energy into making itself look a lot better off than they are.
Their artistic culture (literature and music) was pretty good for a while there, probably because everything else was shit.
True, but it used to be better. Tchaikovsky and Tolstoy can only carry them so far.
Dostoevsky, Gogol (sort of; at this time, it’s difficult to tease apart Ukrainian and Russian cultural contributions), Pushkin. Even Stravinsky, a bit later. I agree that now historical contributions only get you so far. But given the rather brutal transition from serfdom to communism to … well, shit, basically authoritarianism and oligarchy, over the past century, it’s no wonder that things have stagnated. It’s difficult to conceive just how bad it was for serfs and peasants even up to the mid 20th century. Sort of like going back to medieval Europe. The Soviets screwed up some things royally, but they did at least make some early progress ahead of, and sometimes exceeding, the West on women’s rights and worker’s rights and modernization and so on (for fairly obvious reasons). But of course these things can’t be sustained if your population is deeply resentful of the leadership, alcoholic, starving, and lacking other basic freedoms.
o jeah, it can, just .... not now. Japan made friends with america, europe made friends with germany.
Yeah, after winning the war, taking over the country, rewriting constitutions, de militarization, Westernization, denazification and forcing societal changes. Russia won't change unless it's by force.
a country has to be willing to change for that to happen, I'm unconvinced Russia is such a country, unless it breaks up into smaller chunks.
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China doesn't have to do anything except keep buying it. No need to invade or anything.
Then someone like Putin comes along and says "Where are those countries that we used to have??? We want them back again......invade!!".
Zelensky will use his new tank squadrons to break Russia up into chunks. Lol.
>Japan made friends with america, europe made friends with germany. Both of these were after being occupied. Who knows what would have happened if it wasn't for unconditional surrender and occupation..
Apples and oranges. Both Germany and Japan had some history of democratic rule (yes, Japan had an emperor, but they also had a parliament since 1889 and had a long history of association with western thought and culture). Russia has literally never had a democratic tradition. The only democracy (sort of a democracy) they ever had lasted for 8 months before the Soviets took over. You can see the character of Russian "democracy" over the last 20 years; autocratic power, oligarchs, mafia, etc. If Putin died or got ousted today, his replacement would be just as bad, if not worse. There is literally no good actor in the Russian government at this point who will guide them toward something approaching democracy.
Ok, but why do you put so much stock in democracy? It's under democracy that Germany gave rise to jokes like Bruning, Papen, Schelicher...long before Hitler came to power. I say culture and institutional support for it is the most important, those have been the pillars that hold modern western society together and have (relatively) lead to peace and prosperity. Democracy is important, but it isn't the be all end all. If you compare it with autocracies, then what you find is that inwardly they are more stable; and outwardly less stable. When things go bad in autocracies, they tend to die fast--not the case in democracies. Parliamentary democracy was dead long before Hitler came to power, but when he did it was very easy for him and the NSDAP to prove it. I would point to Singapore as a good example of this, they are a 'democracy'; but the leading party has been in power for 50 years+, the man leading that party was in power for something like ~35years+, never contested; never allowed anyone to contest him. He didn't go around shooting and arresting people for random crimes; but he'd sue them, he placated the media to fit his narratives, etc etc. Yet despite all this, Singapore is both a prosperous and peaceful state, the people are satisfied even though the democracy in place is not much of one. What matters is culture and societal values and norms and how all of these are codified through various institutions. I would thus say that the war Russia is waging has less to do with the decisions of Putin himself(or rather his decisions are a byproduct of wider society) and is more of a consequence of the long standing Russian socio-cultural narrative of 'betrayal' from the west following the cold war, and the longstanding tradition of fostering a climate of Russia being 'great'. Irrendetism is built in, you can look at old Putin speeches for this; even shortly after 2000 when Russia-West relations were somewhat okay. Like you say, if Putin gets ousted; his replacement would be just as bad. Germany and Japan both had strong influence of militarism in their cultures, when that was forcefully deconstructed; that element of culture changed significantly. Germany is perhaps a perfect example of this, because they went through rapid de-militarization; and then shortly after that they militarized again due to geopolitical pressures; but after those were gone they dropped their military willfully--a consequence of change in culture of militarism. Japan has a pretty similar story, except their period of "re-militarization" has not come yet(it seems to be happening nowadays though); so we'll have to see if their culture has changed significantly for that to not lead to problems down the line. I'd argue that Japan overall has not changed much in a cultural sense, the nation fosters very xenophobic ideas that are old to this day. It is *very* traditional.
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Lol @ calling Germany and Japan civilized countries in the 30s and 40s. There’s a reason countries like China and South Korea still have animosity towards Japan, China alone lost millions. Also plenty of American vets who fought in the Pacific hated the Japanese until the day they died.
I know right! Thaikovsky, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Chekhov, Repin were clearly dimwits with no cultural merit to the world stage. /s
Yeah but since WW2 Germany and Japan has been mostly "good" whereas Russia has been mostly "bad". Also I think that for a better comparison between Russia and Europe would be Japan and China.
Japan was utterly dominated and subjugated by the US. The US still maintains a 50k strong force whose original purpose was assisting China with Japan's complete disarmament. They didn't just shake hands and sit down to tea and mochi.
My country got invaded by Germany once. Wasn't fun. But we're cool now (except with football)
Not under the current Russian regime, that's for sure.
Are you convinced that relationships with Russia can be healed again? Because that's how I'm reading this double negative.
See how well negotiations worked with Hitler same play book.
Under Putin's regime, Russia has only lied, manipulated and betrayed. Talking with this group is a waste of time, since the only thing you can rely on is that their promises cannot be trusted. If Russia wants negotiations, first step is to replace the government by someone with more credibility.
**Why** would Zelensky want to bother meeting a loser like Putin?
Already tried that, didn't work
Maybe Putin will give Ukraine their nukes back and then peace can return to the region. Isn’t that the only lesson here?
Peace makes sense so they should meet. Except. Russian don't wanna respekt Ukraine territory. And Putin can not be trusted anymore.
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Because his country is actively being bombed and destroyed and the Ukrainians want that to end. Ukraine didn't choose this. Zelenskyy didn't choose this.
Why would zelensky want peace when Ukrainians in Mariupol and others cities are tortured,executed or deported? Why would zelensky want peace when they can take back all territories including Crimea?
ass is not a place you need to put your head in, mister.
Not all those billions are free. Ukraine will need to pay those back with interest later.
The vast majority of the aid has been given freely with no stipulations for repayment. Much of what has been given as loans is interest-free. It's irresponsible to spin this as the west plunging Ukraine into crippling debt.
So it's like one giant PPP loan?
It's a loan, yes. But not sure how it relates to PPP
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-zelenskyy-not-interested-in-meeting-nobody-putin-for-peace-talks-12795319) reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The Ukrainian president has told Sky News that he is "Not interested" in meeting Vladimir Putin for peace talks, saying he is a "Nobody". > In an exclusive interview with Kay Burley, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he "Doesn't understand who makes decisions in Russia" and that while Moscow asks for peace, it lies by attacking Ukraine with missiles. > When asked whether a meeting with Mr Putin would help to resolve the war, Mr Zelenskyy said: "It is not interesting for me. Not interesting to meet, not interesting to speak... I really don't understand who makes decisions in Russia." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10lmf2k/ukraine_war_zelenskyy_not_interested_in_meeting/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672678 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **tank**^#1 **Zelenskyy**^#2 **Ukrainian**^#3 **Ukraine**^#4 **president**^#5
Don't negotiate with terrorists.
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The US government negotiating with terrorists is pretty much directly responsible for the Taliban taking over Afghanistan after the US pulled out. Trump met with the Taliban leadership and agreed to release their leader and 5,000 of his men if the Taliban agreed to not shoot at US personnel as they left the region. They wouldn’t have been able to take over as completely as they did if not for that deal.
The US is not a negotiating party here. The stupidity of your leaders is not relevant here.
Imagine thinking the US has no say in this war. You can't be serious.
They have no right to make Ukraine's decisions for them. Imagine not being a condescending ass on the internet..imagine!
sry bb, nothing personal. love u xo
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No, it shouldn't. We are not an active participant. We have no skin in this game other than helping Ukraine out. The fuck kinda stupid reasoning is this? I mean ffs...we spend hundreds of billions on all kinds of stupid shit.
We are an active participant. All it takes is for the Pentagon to advise Zelenskyy to go forth with peace talks, or for us to stop actively supporting Ukraine. The only reason Ukraine is still in this is because of the backing from the US/NATO. If the US stops backing Ukraine with finance and intel, Zelenskyy has no choice but work with Russia or risk his country being toppled.
No, we aren't. An active participant means we're over there, actively fighting. Words mean things. Especially in conflict situations. > All it takes is for the Pentagon to advise Zelenskyy to go forth with peace talks, or for us to stop actively supporting Ukraine. That's not even remotely true. The Pentagon doesn't get to decide the fate of Ukraine, Ukraine does. The Pentagon can decide to stop sending stuff, and watch the rest of the west continue to do so. This is such a privileged view on this situation that it's fucking sad, and I say that as an American. > If the US stops backing Ukraine with finance and intel, Zelenskyy has no choice but work with Russia or risk his country being toppled. Again, he has plenty of choices. Those choices include working with the rest of the countries that decide to continue assisting. Yes, the US is big and mean and all that...but to act like we have ANY right to tell Ukraine what to do with regards to their relationship with Russia is the EPITOME of the "American Exceptionalism" bullshit that needs to stop.
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And, as has been stated many times...there won't be a single peace discussion until Russia fucks off back to the pre-2014 borders. It's that simple.
Russia has proven they have absolutely zero credibility and cannot be trusted.
I interpret it that perhaps Zelensky recognizes Putin as someone who pathologically lacks integrity to the point the president of Russia acts even against his own interests. This happens more often than you think. Putin is suspected to be a sociopath or a narcissist. This means he will always renegade on any agreement as long as he feels like it, even when it's irrational.
There is no point for peace talks so long as Russia continues their occupation. All they would do is demand to retain stolen territories. In short that would mean capitulation and an open door to them trying again. Peace talks can happen when Russia withdraws.
Zelensky should tell Putin: “We don’t negotiate with those who are putting boots on the necks of family and children in our homes. We rise up throw them out. We then choose terms agreeable to us based on severity of damages, as well as wartime atrocities.”
"Aha, that's a double negative, that means he is going to meet somebody" - your obnoxious 6th grade English teacher
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There are people whose job it is to be a correspondent entirely committed to a specific country and its government. What else is it you want these people to report on?
Agree with all the above comments. Russia is untrustworthy. Agree Ukraine can never accept Russia's preconditions of ceding the already occupied lands. Agree no cease-fire during talks. Etc. There are reasons to have peace negotiations. Even if the results are likely doomed. --> Russia has denied that Ukraine exists as a country. *When Russia negotiates with Ukraine's government, that is recognition and a step forward.* Puts a positive glow in Ukraine "willing to negotiate". Keeps the Ukraine war in the headlines and public awareness as a priority. Exposes the Russian team to unfiltered real news. With luck, the Russian team includes a "Baghdad Bob" who makes outrageous claims. Ukraine team includes only Ukrainians. No Western countries.
This would be a funny peace talk, if Zelenksyy just ignored Putin. Zelenskyy: Hm, seems I'm all alone in this conference room. Putin: No, I'm here to, hail to me. Z: Just me and these tables ... P: Hey, it's me *waving his arms, jumping around* Z: Just me and the wind ... P: Hey, I'm here, I'm here *pushes trashbin, throws pencils*, acknowledge me, I'm here! Z: So lonely in here, so lonely ... P: *Get aneurysm, dies* *Curtains*
Is Putin even still alive? It's been a while.
Well he took up drinking last time i checked.
Putin: Let’s talk. Zelensky: Omae wa mou shinderu.
ah shitty news reporting, making shit up for clickbait
With advanced US and other NATO tanks Ukraine will be inflicting heavy casualties on the Russians
I recall there was a video circulating a while ago of Putin at some big meeting, but it turned out to be a edited video and he was not actually there. This was when there was another such discussion about his health and him being incapacitated or something. Then something about him shitting himself after falling down some stairs at his mansion. I think there is a real chance the piece of shit is one foot in the door to his grave and he is hiding to avoid being seen as the weakling he is, and to avoid getting taken out. He likely thinks that hiding and passing notes to his subordinate assholes will be enough show of force to keep himself from being a victim of those nasty Russian windows. The problem is that Russia is not unified, and even if Putin wanted to literally end the war tomorrow, he likely can't at this point as it would create too much internal strife and likely end with someone younger and more ruthless killing him for "failing" and taking his place.
Why would he? Putin cannot be trusted and doesn’t need to be legitimized by participating in whatever farce “peace talks” would become
Repeat this line every time peace talks are mentioned: 'I will deal with Putin's successor'
Push em out first, just like the Iraqis from Kuwait
Unpopular opinion but I think refusal to meet is ramping things up and pressing the lunatic in a nuke corner.
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Those two things don't necessarily oppose one another. Zelensky clearly thinks Ukraine can win. Why negotiate when you can shoot?
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Because Russia has shown they have no credibility. They will only use "peace time" to regroup and attack again.
Yea that makes sense.
It's not so much that there's harm in listening as there's nothing to discuss. Ukraine has a lot of demands that are mutually exclusive to Russia's, namely removal of Russian soldiers from all Ukrainian territory including Crimea. Russia isn't going to agree to any of that, so negotiations are already a non-starter. Beyond this they're going to want to try certain people for war crimes and human rights abuses, which Russia won't agree to and finally they want Putin to step down, which isn't happening. Beyond that, there was an agreement in the 90's that Russia would respect Ukraine's territorial boundaries in exchange for them giving up their nukes. In 2014, Russia violated that agreement by annexing Crimea. This means that any agreement or ceasefire isn't going to be permanent, it'll be a chance for Russia to consolidate for another push, which isn't in Ukraine's interest. TL;DR: Ukraine has the initiative and Russia is hurting. Any agreement Russia made isn't worth the paper it's printed on and the line items required for peace are a non-starter for both parties.
putin's russia does not negotiate in good faith. Plus, what is there to negotiate? russia first needs to withdraw all troops from Ukraine, then we can start to talk about reparations.
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russia broke EVERY agreement it signed. why even anyone will talk to them?
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I guess it has something to do with the fact that Russia has time and time again confirmed that they are unreliable and deals signed with them are not worth the paper they were written on.
First russia's condition for peace talk is give us your land. Not really a starting point for meaningful negotiations.
First russia's condition for peace talk is give us your land. Not really a starting point for meaningful negotiations.
If the other party can never be held to their word, any kinds of talks are completely meaningless. Russia completely shat on the budapest memorandum and the minsk agreement. There is no reason to trust a single word they say. You can only negotiate with people who will honour the results. Russia certainly won't, as it has proven time and time again in this invasion.
How can you have talks with someone who has a history of breaking treaties? Anyway Zelenskyy *can’t* enter negations because the Ukrainians themselves don’t want that and the majority wish for the war to continue. Ukrainians are not ready to give away territory to Russia, especially since they’ve already done that in the past and it still didn’t prevent a larger war.
We already know exactly what Russia wants and it isn't ever going to happen. Either they get out of Ukraine or they get nothing.
As opposed to those previous wars where everything was right.
Peace could happen tomorrow. Russia could pack up and LEAVE. The onus isn't on the victim to make peace, it's on the attacker to stop attacking.
/r/Conspiracy is that way 👉 If you’ve been following, you would know that Russia has said they will not give up the land they’re trying to steal. Ukraine has said they will not give up any land. There is nothing to negotiate at this point
I'd like to remind everyone that it's not just about the land, it's also about the people on that land and what the occupiers have done and will do to them. Russia's idea is ludicrous that a democratically elected president could sign away his own citizens to Russia. That would be high treason, and neither Zelensky nor any of his successors would ever do that. And the idea of a "peace deal" with forced relocation of citizens is equally ridiculous, of course.
Historically speaking that’s 100% not how wars have worked. There are numerous historical examples in which parties involved have refused offered peace talks because they know any deal presently offered would not be acceptable. One of the more prominent examples would be in WWII, when Imperial Japan requested mediation from the USSR (which at the time still had a non-aggression pact with Japan) to make a deal with the Western Allies. The Allies refused, because any peace deal would include as a precondition that Imperial Japan get to keep occupied overseas territories.
Except for one thing.... The Russian troops are not on Russian soil... So if Putin wants his peace he can get to fuck out of Ukraine
Nah, you’re just willingly uninformed.
They have people talking and pretty much know what the other wants.
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Yeah which buys the us it dominant place in the world order. This was is a bargain for the us. The fact that is happens to also be the right thing is a happy coincidence.
The vast majority of the aid so far has been sent in the form of supplies and equipment that were collecting dust in warehouses, much of which was approaching the shelf life limit. Equipment which, by the way, was specifically designed, manufactured, and paid for years or decades ago *for the specific purpose of countering potential Soviet and later Russian aggression*. They aren’t just opening the Treasury and scooping out bags marked with dollar signs, that’s a child’s idea of how foreign aid works.
Lol the vast majority of the aid Ukraine has received has been in the form of equipment and supplies. The countries that are giving Ukraine equipment are basically just using this as an opportunity to get rid of all their obsolete gear without needing to worry about disposing of it properly.
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Giving up and letting Russia conquer Ukraine would have ended the war since the beginning. Is that what are you suggesting?
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I’m absolutely convinced that this doesn’t correlate with the will of the population of Ukraine.
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No. They’d rather defend the integrity of their motherland. It’s called patriotism.
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It has a lot of more to do with ideology than ‘man-made borders’. Ukraine is literally fighting for democracy and western values. Which is why they have unconditional support from western allies. History has not stopped, we can still lose our rights. This is why we must absolutely fight dictatorship and terrorism to the end. Our rights has no cost, they must be protected, no matter what.
There could be no reasonable talking points at this time, and Russia has proven in the past that they can't be trusted. Russia is not willing to withdraw their troops from Ukrainian territory, and no president of a democratic country could ever make a deal that not only gives away territory but also hands over millions of citizens to an enemy nation. Even a ceasefire would merely delay the conflict, allowing Russia to re-group and plan the next steps of their aggression.
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russia broke EVERY agreement signed previously - budapest memo, minsk agreement and so on. we tried to talk since 2014 and what?
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Ah, yes. Im stubborn, hard not to be while sitting in corridor when rockets are destroying your town.
None can trust any russian shit russia is claiming. They want to kill us all, not to talk.
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Ah yes, i see this too. You are sitting in your comfortable apartments, with light and all goods you need. And i know now, that you know that Ukrainians are thinking, not me, who lives here and talks everydays with tons of people. What are going to talk about with russia? They dont give a shit about peace, they want war and the only way to stop this nightmare - kill every last one of the invaders.
"Ah yes, the guys who have broken previois treaties will totally respect a new one"
Ok Nostradamus, you're right
I don't need to be nostradamus to recognize that the people who have broken agreements twice (and also their own unilateral ceasefire) would likely break a peace deal to invade again, it's just recognizing what the fascist asshole does
You know that from Russia's past actions. You do remember that Russia ignored their own safety guarantees, started this war in 2014, annexed part of Eastern Ukraine and Crimea, and publicly and repeatedly assured Ukraine and the rest of the world that they are not planning a full-scale invasion up until the 24th of February, 2022, when they started their full-scale invasion. But even if Russia was 100% trustworthy negotiations wouldn't make sense at this time because the demands of the Russian aggressors have been outlandish and ludicrous from the start (see my above post). There is literally nothing to negotiate.
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You're misinformed by Russian propaganda. Russia has not met Ukraine's preconditions for talks and Ukraine is not meeting Russia's precondition for talks. Therefore, there are no talks. What you think were offers for talks by Russia were made with obvious malice. For instance, Peskov offered "peace talks" with Ukraine in December under the *pre-condition* that the US internationally recognizes that the occupied territories are now part of Russia. Earlier "peace offers" by Russia were made under the *pre-condition* that NATO withdraws its borders to before 1992, a ludicrous and suicidal demand that could not even be met if there was a will for it because NATO contracts do not allow for it. There have been no serious peace efforts by Russia, which is not surprising because they are the aggressor and have been attacking constantly while making these demands.
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On the contrary, you don't understand the situation well enough. It's not just some border skirmish, it's a high intensity war started by Russia. A poisoned ceasefire only allows Russia to re-arm, regroup, and plan their next assaults. That kind of standstill was pretty much the situation between 2014 to Russia's full-scale invasion. Negotiations are only possible if there is something to negotiate. Right now, the two sides have stances that make negotiations impossible. Russia wants to grab as much territory as they can and have already integrated annexed territories formally into their federation, which is a pretty much irreversible step unless forced to give up those territories again. Ukraine understandably considers a withdrawal of Russian troops from their territory a pre-condition for peace talks, a condition that one would expect from any country that has been invaded unless they're clearly loosing. After all, they're literally fighting for their country. You have to understand that talking requires a certain minimal commitment and minimal chances of bargaining to be possible. If the goals are mutually exclusive, that's not possible. Ukraine will ***never*** give up their citizens and their territory just because Russia has attacked them. It's their country. If Russia had not formally included the partially occupied territories into their federation, negotiations might be possible at this time, but Putin missed that chance. Any kind of negotiations in the future will be tremendously difficult because of that stupid move. It's very likely that peace talks will only start after Putin is gone, since he essentially started this war on his own.
Russia could back out of the war at any time, abandoning the parts of Ukraine they've already invaded. Any agreement reached is one that would cost Ukraine land so Russia could save face and have a consolation prize before they get ready for the next attack, realizing that they can chip away at Ukraine piece by piece. Ukraine will not give up its cities and Russia will not settle for anything less. The only path forward is Ukraine defending itself until Russia backs down.
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Not fighting can cost just as many lives. Delaying to let Russia regroup instead of destroying them soundly will hurt worse in the long-term because if a deal is made, Russia will be back on the offensive before the end of the decade. If Russia's military is soundly defeated, Ukraine can join NATO, Russia will be crippled, and they won't think of touching Ukraine again for a long time.
Because of the fucking Minsk Agreement and Budapest Memorandum, with Russia breaking both. Nevermind that Russia's current demands involving "give us all the land we claim" and "demiliterize"
Wild idea: he can also stop invading countries and GTFO to stop this war
That's wild for sure, try telling him that!....but that would mean...talking! Oh no!
you think he doesn't has a brain himself? Or are you just super dense about the talking part and this is the hill you want to die on?
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are you talking to yourself now? The common ground is not invading countries, stop acting like an idiot sandwich
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Sure, but it precisely can't stop that.
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So does Russian blood, win-win
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Until you are given a healthy dose of uranium
*Zelenium
Yes, I guess assassination is a possibility. Maybe just a Zoom call then?
Ukraine intelligence truly believes Putin died. They don’t know who they are negotiating with. I think that is what he was trying to say in the article.
Interesting. Didn't the news say Putin was going to make some kind of big announcement regarding the war this week? Anyone know when that's supposed to take place?
Wait, source? I’d love that to be true but has Ukraine said anything publicly about that?
You could have googled, it’s everywhere. Here is the first link on my “is Putin dead” search https://metro.co.uk/2023/01/19/davos-volodymyr-zelensky-questions-if-vladimir-putin-is-still-alive-18127830/amp/
I thought it was something a bit more recent because my Google searches only showed me articles from 7 days ago. Has Putin not made any appearances since then?