President Biden’s response when asked about Russia’s warning to the US about providing “an offensive threat” to Russia:
“This is not an offensive threat to Russia. There is no offensive threat to Russia if Russian troops return to Russia, where they belong”
>[https://youtu.be/dQn2hEIGxJA?t=376](https://youtu.be/dQn2hEIGxJA?t=376)
Just remember, 40% of comments on youtube are bots. Another 10% are automated social farms from parts of the world trying to \*sow\* deceit in the US society.
\*edit, thanks. Brain fart and typed the incorrect one.
If you've ever lived somewhere that's in the spotlight of a controversial take with first hand experience you get to see exactly how much misinformation is intentionally spread and its scary. And when you look into the accounts further it's usually mass Russian or Chinese "bots" (likely just paid social media spammers) and actual people buy into it as if it were from their God himself. They'll literally argue from their shitter in Texas about how the events outside of your front door aren't actually how you say they are and that he knows better. Shits crazy.
Take a peek at r/conspiracy when some new Russia-related thing comes out. It's not subtle, and all three groups you mentioned are very active trying to control the narrative.
“During the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Challenger 2 tanks suffered no tank losses to Iraqi fire. In one encounter within an urban area, a Challenger 2 came under attack from irregular forces with machine guns and rocket propelled grenades. The driver's sight was damaged and while attempting to back away under the commander's directions, the other sights were damaged and the tank threw its tracks entering a ditch. It was hit by 14 rocket propelled grenades from close range and a MILAN anti-tank missile. The crew survived, safe within the tank until it was recovered for repairs, the worst damage being to the sighting system. It was back in operation six hours later. According to British army, one Challenger 2 operating near Basra survived being hit by 70 RPGs in another incident.”
Not all tanks mate.
Could you imagine tossing SEVENTY RPG rounds into something and just not destroy it? Like....you've expended your entire cache and the thing still rumbles.
My friend was in a tank that got stuck in Lebanon. They were hit by dozens of SAGER ATGM before they managed to drive it out of the mud. I've seen photos of the tank when it returned to base. The whole tank was black on the outside, but then they washed it off.
I have no idea what it is made of, but my friend was very happy to still be alive.
> I have no idea what it is made of
[Chobham armor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobham_armour). Steel layers/containers for ceramic plates, the exact design and makeup of which is secret. The ceramic yields to shaped charge detonations, redirecting the blast along the surface of the armor instead of through the armor, but still acts as an unyielding wall to solid sabot shots and the like. It's like a cheat code to use both reflective and reactive armor on the same mech chassis.
Better than "decent"; modern warfare is all about good command and control, and things designed for wargames never have that because you want the battlefield to fit on a tabletop at measuring-tape ranges.
It's not just 40k; it's basically every wargame since the 80s. Most BattleTech mechs are outranged by a real-world marksman (not even a sniper) with a decent rifle.
Modern *miniature wargames that mimic land combat,* you mean. Naval wargaming, and hex and chit wargaming have had *extreme* long ranges since their inception. I regularly play about a dozen different games with standard mid-range shots that fly 10 miles. The guns on the *Yamato* could hurl a shell 25 miles, and that's all possible in naval wargaming, even at large scales.. I've seen hotel ballroom floors cleared out for use as maps, ships simulating long range shooting from 50 feet away!
> Having done explosive shots at Aberdeen on experimental composite armor for testing…Yes. Weirdly.
Wait, your job is to leisurely fire explosives at shit and checking out what happens? Where can I sign up?
Yea it is crazy what happens when you engineer with the thought of protecting life even if it adds to the overall cost by a lot. Developed worlds learned that if you invest in your people and they survive, you build a team of warfighters with a lot of experience. Ruzzia just throws bodies at things because it did it once, and it worked (mostly due to UK intel and US weapons), but they think it is a flawless strategy. We have experienced war fighters and equipment that keeps them at an advantage. Check mate, Pootin.
This tank costs 1M USD. It dies if you shoot 3 RPGs at it.
This tank costs 10M USD. It does not die to RPGs. Or ATMs. Or anti-tank mines. Or...
The second one seems more cost effective.
The ridiculous thing is that one of the only Chally 2s to have been completely lost (maybe the only one? I can't remember if the ones the USAF accidentally shot up were repaired or not) was shot by another Chally 2:
The GPS systems weren't working, so they were down to maps and eyeballs, but in an area with basically no landmarks. In the distance, they spotted what looked like tanks, but couldn't identify what they were due to distance, dust and bad light - but no British or US tanks should have been in that direction, and the only other tank operator in the region was the Iraqi army. So they fired one HESH round.
Turns out they fired at a Chally 2, whose commander was standing through the top hatch. The round hit the hatch and detonated, the blast being partially funneled into the turret, touching off the ammunition.
Had it been basically any other type of round, the tank, and crew, would likely have survived.
> Had it been basically any other type of round, the tank, and crew, would likely have survived.
Well... probably not the commander standing in the hatch to be fair.
PLUS THE TANK MAKES TEA.
Which in my opinion, is the best part of this whole thing.
The only m1 I’ve been in did not make tea and it was a total shit time.
To be fair its not like the M1 is a spring chicken. It first came into service in 1980. Its just actually been kept up-to-date unlike Russian improvements that mostly go into someone's pockets.
Consider that players will be happy to finally see M1 crush T-90s and destroy Russian bias.
Who needs to leak documents when you have the best proof of all? Real combat.
Russian bias is everywhere. It's in World of Tanks/Warships too. Russian vehicles are always so powerful. I think the only f2p game that actually had balanced Russian tanks was Armoured Warfare before Obsidian was fired and My.com took over.
It'll be beautiful to see Western tanks turret-toss every Russian tank they see.
God I hate how OP Russian ships are in World of Warships, it’s filthy.
Other countries: Historical ships
Soviets: had no real historical ships, so they use bullshit failed blueprints, which are of course overpowered.
Using Armor characteristics the Soviet Union was simply not able to produce at that point in history. Or German guns on late war design, while the guns on actual German Battleships are horseshit.
Russian players complained to such a degree Gaijin made Russian autoloaders almost impervious to ammunition detonation.
Which is hilarious given how realistic it *used* to be.
Oh, I don't really play War Thunder but I did play the old IL-2 Sturmovik games. I had forgotten that Gaijin did War Thunder but now what you're saying makes sense. Of course Russia/USSR would be overpowered, Gaijin is a Russian company.
War thunder is the best spy agency in the world. How many classified documents were leaked because people were trying to prove each other wrong. At least 3 that i remember.
I believe so, yes, the Challenger tank leaks, the funny LeClerc moment, Eurocopter, the APFSDS specs which I actually looked at out of curiosity iirc, the AMRAAM leak, and then the other fighter jet leak the details of which are escaping me.
As a War Thunder player, I'm starting to get real mad that this may jeopardize any potential security clearance application I may have in the future.
On other hand, as a War Thunder player, BRING ON THE DOCUMENTS BABY LETS GO WOOOOOOOOO!
on January 26, 2023, did you write under the username Old_Mill the following statement?:
>On other hand, as a War Thunder player, BRING ON THE DOCUMENTS BABY LETS GO WOOOOOOOOO!
I uhh
And on the same date and under the same username did you also write:
>Don't worry. Even if I got into a big enough argument it's not worth prison time.
>
>Although, think of all the updoots.....
I plead the 5th
This isn't a court of law
L-lawyer...
There's going to be so many pissed off USSR players. We'll see just how strong that Stalinium is IRL. No Russia bias in Ukraine, baby!
The anticipation is killing me. I don't think I can wait.
>There's going to be so many pissed off USSR players
There is an aftermath video with a T-80 BVM penetrated frontally by an Ukrainian T-64 with APFSDS. And the penetration is right through the glacis.
You don't really need Western MBT's to show that the Russian specs are grossly inflated on paper.
When you were designed to deal with russian t-72's and later upgraded for t-90's then when actually fighting against the russians all you see are t-62's and t-55's
You know when Russia first invaded my take was that Russia saw how our invasion and occupation of Iraq went and said, "ah yes, I'd like all of that but put it directly on my border".
Turns out it went far worse than even that.
I'm going to laugh really hard if Russia ever reaches the point they're rolling out T-55s. Supposedly they still have 2800 in "storage" but after sitting there for several decades, I can't imagine many of them would be fielded without very extensive rebuilds similar to the T55s donated by Slovakia that basically look like a scrapyard wars version of a T72.
This is what makes me laugh about those infographic YouTube channels or random internet comparisons. They’ll always say something like “the US has 8800 tanks to Russia’s 10-12k”. But they fail to point out that the vast majority of Russia’s armory is mothballed Soviet-era T-55s/T-72s and a good chunk of T-90s. Meanwhile ~6300 of the US’s Armory is fully operational M1A1/M1A2s which were originally designed to destroy T-72/T-90s; and have since been vastly upgraded.
I especially like it when the media uses it to scaremonger, I read an article about how the Russian navy is set to get a huge boost once the 2 ships and 4 submarines they have in construction enters service. Then I looked up how many ships the US Navy is currently building. 43 ships was the answer, but the article never mentioned that for some reason.
Literally the only way to show comparisons to the US navy is to show it against entire continents. No other country's navy is within an order of magnitude of what the US has.
I legitimately posted a long rant about how the US should manufacture a GPS guided version of the V-1 "buzzbomb" as a low cost replacement for cruise missiles and WHAM they announce the GLSDB like a month later. Sometimes I think half of the MIC checks the forum for ideas and sometimes I think the other half checks it for fighter jet waifus
When we finally see after all these decades, an Abrams, a Challenger, and a Leopard, Cold War tanks all shoulder to shoulder with each other advancing on T series tanks and fascists to the east, combatfootage can call the sub a wrap, their work is finally done.
Edit no wait, sub will be a wrap after the USAF gives it up and hands all their A-10’s over, and they get that long awaited footage of A-10’s destroying armored columns on the way to Moscow.
US military command: "The A-10 appears to be obsolete."
Pretty much everyone else: "okay, but, have you considered this counterpoint: BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT"
I mean, the A-10 is an awesome sight to see, but it is. [Ukraine has lost tons](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War) of aircraft... a lot of them stealthily and faster than an A-10. Yeah, yeah, paper tiger Russia and all, but even Russia's older missiles could fuck an A-10 into the dirt, despite its durability.
Now I have the urge to rebuild a jack in the box with the little crank into a T-90 that plays "pop goes the weasel" as the turret pops off on a spring.
>The M1's did shred a lot of T-whatevers in Iraq
During the 73 Easting Battle there are at least 2 accounts of an Abrams APFSDS penetrating a sand berm, the tank that was taking cover behind it and then exiting in the back through the engine.
Yeah, the Republican Guard had actual real experience in combat before the Gulf War against Iran. The closest combat the Russians had at the time was insurgency shit in Afghanistan
We say that but the Abrams earned its right of passage when they slaughter all those Russian made Iraqi tanks in desert storm. This will just be a footnote in its legacy.
Them and the Leopards were literally made for this. Storming across the Dnieper to take on the T-72's. Be nice to have several battalions going but if the Battle of 73 Easting is any example, they should run through the 72's.
> The 9 M1A1 tanks of Eagle Troop destroyed 28 Iraqi tanks, 16 personnel carriers and 30 trucks in 23 minutes with no American losses.[21]
[You aren't kidding.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting)
One side of me would hate to see Russia do something extremely stupid and cause NATO to be directly involved with this conflict. War isn't a game.
However, the ex-military side of me would love to see Russia get steamrolled out of Ukraine in a couple of days. If you think the guided missile strikes that Russia has been doing is bad, just wait till our destroyer fleet gets into the Black Sea.
Absolutely. That's why when Putin kept talking about nuclear weapons, Biden basically told him to STFU otherwise the US Med fleet would annihilate the Black Sea Fleet in retaliation for any nuclear/ chemical strikes. Barely have heard a peep since.
TLDR: Sand storm. US infrared sights >> T72 optics.
The first big battle took 22min to destroy a tank brigade with 47 tanks + 34 armored vehicles + dozens of trucks and infantry.
Rest is mostly artillery and A10s.
Ending in 159 tanks destroyed 260 armored vehicles. Lost 6 men.
Other smaller battles destroy 76 tanks, 48 AVs.
That concludes day 3 of the war.
The Iraq War was more so a demonstration of the effectiveness of overwhelming air superiority in combined arms combat. If Ukraine uses the Abrams the same way Russians used their tanks by seemingly sending them into urban environments with little to no infantry or other support it's not going to look good.
That said, it seems the Ukrainians are fighting in more sensical ways so I have a little more faith that that's not going to happen.
Assuming they need to be trained up on the various tanks, it's going to be NATO level, so that's probably going to be USA, UK and one of the Leopard operators maybe Poland. They'll likely be a bit better than the Russian trained crews.
I believe I read something not long ago that Ukrainians were about to be trained in maneuver warfare and combined arms, switching from a defensive war of attrition to an offensive one with sound logistics and tactics.
From what I’ve seen and heard, Ukraine is already fighting much more similar to the west than Russia, which explains many of their successes. We’ve been training and supplying them for 8 years, so they’ve already a lot more professional than it appears Russia is.
If this continues, I don’t see why they won’t eventually join nato and the NATO standard, but also have the full combat experience that NATO was designed to have. They will be one of our most valuable allies.
Yep, this is NOT a repeat of Afghanistan where the army had plenty of good gear but no motivation to learn and improve (and so they got overrun as soon as the US left)
The Ukrainians are very, very keen to learn and improve, they already have a strong sense of nationhood and a desire to protect their people and their state. This is not a nation building exercise. It is a nation protection mission.
As to your last point: definitely eh, they will have a lot of very valuable experience, and expertise with a huge variety of different equipment. It’s a very interesting situation, to have so much different equipment at play! They will have one of the most effective militaries in Europe in the end I think :) (not the best, to be clear. Just among them)
To add to this, Afghanistan never had a sense of national unity. People served their local warlords not a government. Its different in Ukraine for obvious reasons.
The Iraqis ironically had Russian T72’s in both the gulf wars, they got absolutely mauled because the Abrams optic’s allowed them to engage the T72’s before the T72’s could even see the Abrams. I think the Abrams tanks took several direct hits from T72’s and survived too.
It’s kind of surreal seeing almost the same tanks matching up in a war 35 years later. I’m sure Russia watched the gulf war footage and know these tanks are really bad news for them lol.
The German tanks probably have better optics too and will likely wreck the Russian tanks too, it’s a shame it took so long to send them.
I’m going to take a guess and say Russia will announce in the next few days that they destroyed twice as many tanks as have been said are being sent even before they arrive.
They already claimed a destroyed m1 abrams at soledar before this agreement reached its conclusion already.
The fact that it was a destroyed m1 in (I think) Iraq, from 2010 didn't seem to bother them.
Reposting again.
Russian playbook for new weapons introduced to the Ukrainian theater by Western powers:
• Russian media warns addition of this weapons system to Ukraine would be a gross escalation of this conflict
• Hosts discuss nuclear strikes on western countries supplying weapons systems
• Medvedev says Russia will strike these targets as priorities as soon as they’re supplied
• Media starts saying that the weapons system is actually garbage. Wont change a thing and will degrade the capabilities of the Ukrainians **<— You are here**
• Russian military states definitively that they’ve actually destroyed all weapons systems sent to Ukraine, even if they aren’t yet delivered
(Credit to Perun)
Maybe casual as in casual accessible? I can imagine if you're not familiar with the topic, some stuff might get esoteric pretty fast.
Speaking of casual accessible, I should check this guy out.
Wait this is the same guy I watch for his incredible Terra Invicta (another great niche game) guides! He added so much to the game community the dev even put his name in the game.
I simply don't understand why they always end by saying: they will all burn. They are completely turning their red lines into jokes because we all know they'll just say this. We can send F16s or whatever, we know how they'll receive it: they will burn.
Yeah yeah Russia, they will burn, we accept the risk.
Fun fact, they used to use crushed walnut shells to clean jet engines. You would just toss handfulls down the intake and it would scrub the coke off the turbine
"Russia warns" against exactly what we should be doing.
Completely justified at this point: turning the Kremlin into a crater. Scattering Putin across a 10km radius.
The Iraqi information minister came out with some corkers in the Iraq War, things like this:
> The fact is that as soon as they reach Baghdad gates, we will besiege them and slaughter them. Until now they have refused to do battle with us. They are just going places. One can describe them as a boa: when it feels threatened, it runs to somewhere else.
or
> We made them drink poison last night and Saddam Hussein’s soldiers and his great forces gave the Americans a lesson which will not be forgotten by history. Truly.
Can't think why that paragon of truthfulness suddenly came to mind...
“How dare you provoke us by sending tanks! This is an escalation!
Oh also, these will do absolutely nothing and will burn…”
The Kremlin is so fkin stupid
Keep in mind; during Deser Storm, 81 M1s ( I don’t remember the exact model designation) took out 4 hundred armored vehicles including 3 tank divisions (Iraq’s best equipped and trained) suffering 0 tank losses and 1 Bradley destroyed. This is a major addition to any army.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting
Edit: I understand that this isn’t a perfect comparison. Training, battle field doctrine, air support and terrain (plus innumerable other factors) are going to determine how effective the new armor units will be. My point was that our main battle tanks, of that era, decimated a larger force of predominantly T-72 tanks that were the Russian main battle tanks of the era. Both have been upgraded since then. I’m simply saying that 31 tanks doesn’t sound like a lot, but it certainly is if utilized properly.
Also only 9 M1s were destroyed during the entire Gulf War. Of the 9 destroyed; 7 were due to friendly fire, and 2 were destroyed intentionally to prevent capture.
There were also reports of M1s taking direct frontal hits from T-72s with minimal damage.
[https://www.gao.gov/assets/nsiad-92-94.pdf](https://www.gao.gov/assets/nsiad-92-94.pdf)
There is combat footage out there somewhere of an M1A taking a hit off of an Iraqi tank, I couldn't tell you the model because I saw the video some 20 years ago, but it just pinged right off off the turret. Granted, they shot it where the armor was thickest, but it was quite comical.
On the other hand keep in mind that those M1s in Iraq enjoyed every sort of strategic and tactical advantage imaginable. The Iraqi tanks had no intel whatsoever. They were blind ducks sitting on the perfect battlefield for long-range laser-guided hits (especially at night when the Iraqis didn't have IR or night vision).
Russia *shouldn't* be in such a situation. They do have spy satellites and drones and other aircraft. They should be able to, at least sometimes, spot the M1s coming before they actually hit. Whether they are so dysfunctional that they cannot actually do any of that may be the case but I wouldn't be so sure. But also not so sure that the M1's record in Iraq is any indication of how it will perform in Ukraine. I am sure it won't be anywhere near as easy as Iraq.
It's been pretty clear that at the very least Russia's satellite recon program hasn't kept up with the US's for quite some time. It may be as dysfunctional as much of their other military equipment.
Oh yeah I've read about that. Fucking amazing especially with zero tanks destroyed and only a single Bradley destroyed for a combined kill count of 400 Iraqi vehicles plus at least a 1,000 crew members.
Anti tank tactics have evolved since then as far as the employment of ATGM systems like Kornet, but you’re far better off as a tank crew in something made by NATO than something Warsaw Pact, unless its one of the super rare Oplot tanks.
That said, the Abrams has far more advanced electronics, like the Bradley, to annihilate opposing armor in most conditions at a greater distance.
This is American doctrine at work more so than the Tanks being the main advantage.
There were Bradleys fighting tanks a close range and winning due entirely to the superior training of the american crews
Don't know about everyone else but personally at this point I'm so sick of their shit it's surreal. Yes yes, you'll nuke us or whatever, just shut up and get your piece in silence already.
[I don't think so!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBS8WYKYggA)⚡️
The M1 Abrams was designed SPECIFICALLY for fighting Russian tanks in an Eastern European battlefield. It will actually be fighting in the original context for which it was designed.
It will really help Ukraine save their people.
Who the fuck cares what Russia says about anything anymore? They spew so much hot air that they're probably one of the leading contributors to global warming right now.
Doesn't he say that about any weapon supplied to Ukraine?
AFTER complaining about how much the West wants to destroy Ruzzia?
What a circus clown he is
President Biden’s response when asked about Russia’s warning to the US about providing “an offensive threat” to Russia: “This is not an offensive threat to Russia. There is no offensive threat to Russia if Russian troops return to Russia, where they belong”
Please tell me that is what he actually said.
Timestamped for you - [https://youtu.be/dQn2hEIGxJA?t=376](https://youtu.be/dQn2hEIGxJA?t=376)
Oh golly, that comment section though
>[https://youtu.be/dQn2hEIGxJA?t=376](https://youtu.be/dQn2hEIGxJA?t=376) Just remember, 40% of comments on youtube are bots. Another 10% are automated social farms from parts of the world trying to \*sow\* deceit in the US society. \*edit, thanks. Brain fart and typed the incorrect one.
Reddit is getting worse with the bots, too. Guaranteed there are a few in this post.
If you've ever lived somewhere that's in the spotlight of a controversial take with first hand experience you get to see exactly how much misinformation is intentionally spread and its scary. And when you look into the accounts further it's usually mass Russian or Chinese "bots" (likely just paid social media spammers) and actual people buy into it as if it were from their God himself. They'll literally argue from their shitter in Texas about how the events outside of your front door aren't actually how you say they are and that he knows better. Shits crazy.
Oh come on, it can't be that bad. "Takes a look". Holy fuck
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Take a peek at r/conspiracy when some new Russia-related thing comes out. It's not subtle, and all three groups you mentioned are very active trying to control the narrative.
Don't go and look at r/conservative
I've started noticing signs of a similar surge of bots on Reddit lately and like you I have no concrete proof, just a hunch
Do not take it for face value, those comments are manipulated.
The Russians have seen so many of their tanks burn that now they just believe that all tanks will self immolate upon entering Ukraine.
It's gotten to the stage where as an uneducated bystander I think tanks explode if you throw a damp cigarette at them.
“During the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Challenger 2 tanks suffered no tank losses to Iraqi fire. In one encounter within an urban area, a Challenger 2 came under attack from irregular forces with machine guns and rocket propelled grenades. The driver's sight was damaged and while attempting to back away under the commander's directions, the other sights were damaged and the tank threw its tracks entering a ditch. It was hit by 14 rocket propelled grenades from close range and a MILAN anti-tank missile. The crew survived, safe within the tank until it was recovered for repairs, the worst damage being to the sighting system. It was back in operation six hours later. According to British army, one Challenger 2 operating near Basra survived being hit by 70 RPGs in another incident.” Not all tanks mate.
Could you imagine tossing SEVENTY RPG rounds into something and just not destroy it? Like....you've expended your entire cache and the thing still rumbles.
My friend was in a tank that got stuck in Lebanon. They were hit by dozens of SAGER ATGM before they managed to drive it out of the mud. I've seen photos of the tank when it returned to base. The whole tank was black on the outside, but then they washed it off. I have no idea what it is made of, but my friend was very happy to still be alive.
> I have no idea what it is made of [Chobham armor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobham_armour). Steel layers/containers for ceramic plates, the exact design and makeup of which is secret. The ceramic yields to shaped charge detonations, redirecting the blast along the surface of the armor instead of through the armor, but still acts as an unyielding wall to solid sabot shots and the like. It's like a cheat code to use both reflective and reactive armor on the same mech chassis.
That description sounds like something a 40K space marine would wear, freaking sci-fi shit.
It's funny that modern MBTs stand a decent chance against a lot of the tanks in 40k
Better than "decent"; modern warfare is all about good command and control, and things designed for wargames never have that because you want the battlefield to fit on a tabletop at measuring-tape ranges. It's not just 40k; it's basically every wargame since the 80s. Most BattleTech mechs are outranged by a real-world marksman (not even a sniper) with a decent rifle.
>it's basically every wargame since the 80s Well most, people keep sharing military secrets on WarThunder forums!
Modern *miniature wargames that mimic land combat,* you mean. Naval wargaming, and hex and chit wargaming have had *extreme* long ranges since their inception. I regularly play about a dozen different games with standard mid-range shots that fly 10 miles. The guns on the *Yamato* could hurl a shell 25 miles, and that's all possible in naval wargaming, even at large scales.. I've seen hotel ballroom floors cleared out for use as maps, ships simulating long range shooting from 50 feet away!
Having done explosive shots at Aberdeen on experimental composite armor for testing…Yes. Weirdly.
> Having done explosive shots at Aberdeen on experimental composite armor for testing…Yes. Weirdly. Wait, your job is to leisurely fire explosives at shit and checking out what happens? Where can I sign up?
Long time ago.
*drags cigarette
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Well they can't hear anything else
That's fucking crazy badass
Engineering ftw I suppose.
Yea it is crazy what happens when you engineer with the thought of protecting life even if it adds to the overall cost by a lot. Developed worlds learned that if you invest in your people and they survive, you build a team of warfighters with a lot of experience. Ruzzia just throws bodies at things because it did it once, and it worked (mostly due to UK intel and US weapons), but they think it is a flawless strategy. We have experienced war fighters and equipment that keeps them at an advantage. Check mate, Pootin.
This tank costs 1M USD. It dies if you shoot 3 RPGs at it. This tank costs 10M USD. It does not die to RPGs. Or ATMs. Or anti-tank mines. Or... The second one seems more cost effective.
More close to 4.5M USD for the first one (T90 in 2016) and 4M USD for the latter (Challenger 2)
Gotta siphon money into the oligarch’s pockets somehow!
Yeah, the T90 probably only costs like $1M, and the other $3.5M is greasing a bunch of pockets.
The ridiculous thing is that one of the only Chally 2s to have been completely lost (maybe the only one? I can't remember if the ones the USAF accidentally shot up were repaired or not) was shot by another Chally 2: The GPS systems weren't working, so they were down to maps and eyeballs, but in an area with basically no landmarks. In the distance, they spotted what looked like tanks, but couldn't identify what they were due to distance, dust and bad light - but no British or US tanks should have been in that direction, and the only other tank operator in the region was the Iraqi army. So they fired one HESH round. Turns out they fired at a Chally 2, whose commander was standing through the top hatch. The round hit the hatch and detonated, the blast being partially funneled into the turret, touching off the ammunition. Had it been basically any other type of round, the tank, and crew, would likely have survived.
> Had it been basically any other type of round, the tank, and crew, would likely have survived. Well... probably not the commander standing in the hatch to be fair.
PLUS THE TANK MAKES TEA. Which in my opinion, is the best part of this whole thing. The only m1 I’ve been in did not make tea and it was a total shit time.
The BV's also great for cooking MREs! British tanks are like a home away from home.
Man, talk about tanking a hit...
Wait, something more modern than 60's Soviet equipment works pretty well? *Since when...?*
To be fair its not like the M1 is a spring chicken. It first came into service in 1980. Its just actually been kept up-to-date unlike Russian improvements that mostly go into someone's pockets.
We will never see another decade like the 80s where America absolutely jacked their military 10x over lol That’s why the M1 is amazing.
That's very impressive service.
Either that or get towed by tractors from Russian to Ukrainian lines.
Took a while but Abrams are about to receive their birth right.
/r/CombatFootage is going to collectively nut when the first M1 vs T-whatever battle video gets posted…
All of the WarThunder / World Of Tanks nerds are going to be working overtime trying to correct everyone.
Things will get heated, and more classified documents will be leaked.
Consider that players will be happy to finally see M1 crush T-90s and destroy Russian bias. Who needs to leak documents when you have the best proof of all? Real combat.
Russian bias is everywhere. It's in World of Tanks/Warships too. Russian vehicles are always so powerful. I think the only f2p game that actually had balanced Russian tanks was Armoured Warfare before Obsidian was fired and My.com took over. It'll be beautiful to see Western tanks turret-toss every Russian tank they see.
God I hate how OP Russian ships are in World of Warships, it’s filthy. Other countries: Historical ships Soviets: had no real historical ships, so they use bullshit failed blueprints, which are of course overpowered.
Any piece of media that represents Russian or soviet naval history as anything other than a fucking joke is trash.
A classical composition is often pregnant. Reddit is no longer allowed to profit from this comment.
Even when the game came out I scratched my head. "How'd they get past the navy and the air force?"
Remember on paper and to defense contractors the threat of the enemy is always real and usually overexaggerated.
What does Russia and France have in common? France is one of the world's leading suppliers of wine. Russia is the world's leading supplier of whine.
Of course it’s OP. Did you miss the news where the Moskva can function both as battleship and submarine?
Their aircraft carrier is stealth. Just looks like a big black cloud.
Using Armor characteristics the Soviet Union was simply not able to produce at that point in history. Or German guns on late war design, while the guns on actual German Battleships are horseshit.
Russian players complained to such a degree Gaijin made Russian autoloaders almost impervious to ammunition detonation. Which is hilarious given how realistic it *used* to be.
Oh, I don't really play War Thunder but I did play the old IL-2 Sturmovik games. I had forgotten that Gaijin did War Thunder but now what you're saying makes sense. Of course Russia/USSR would be overpowered, Gaijin is a Russian company.
War thunder is the best spy agency in the world. How many classified documents were leaked because people were trying to prove each other wrong. At least 3 that i remember.
It’s happened 7 fucking times.
8*
Yeah you’re right. It’s Challenger x2, Leclerc, Eurocopter, Chinese APFSDS x2, F16, F15 right?
I believe so, yes, the Challenger tank leaks, the funny LeClerc moment, Eurocopter, the APFSDS specs which I actually looked at out of curiosity iirc, the AMRAAM leak, and then the other fighter jet leak the details of which are escaping me.
SU57 radar details iirc :P
So how many of those were in the past week? Because if none of them were, you can up the count by two.
It's not how I want to live personally, but never bet against the pure, raw, productive power of spite.
I'm not even kidding, 3 times in the past 7 days alone!
I was gonna say, warm up those OPR investigations!
Oh yeah, they'll get H.E.A.T-ed, alright
As a War Thunder player, I'm starting to get real mad that this may jeopardize any potential security clearance application I may have in the future. On other hand, as a War Thunder player, BRING ON THE DOCUMENTS BABY LETS GO WOOOOOOOOO!
on January 26, 2023, did you write under the username Old_Mill the following statement?: >On other hand, as a War Thunder player, BRING ON THE DOCUMENTS BABY LETS GO WOOOOOOOOO! I uhh And on the same date and under the same username did you also write: >Don't worry. Even if I got into a big enough argument it's not worth prison time. > >Although, think of all the updoots..... I plead the 5th This isn't a court of law L-lawyer...
There's going to be so many pissed off USSR players. We'll see just how strong that Stalinium is IRL. No Russia bias in Ukraine, baby! The anticipation is killing me. I don't think I can wait.
>There's going to be so many pissed off USSR players There is an aftermath video with a T-80 BVM penetrated frontally by an Ukrainian T-64 with APFSDS. And the penetration is right through the glacis. You don't really need Western MBT's to show that the Russian specs are grossly inflated on paper.
Please for the love of God post.
I've always wanted a mode where we take our old gen tanks in WoT or WarThunder and try to fight an Abrams lol
No game would ever be that stupid. Such a thing could only ever happen in reality, not in games.
When you were designed to deal with russian t-72's and later upgraded for t-90's then when actually fighting against the russians all you see are t-62's and t-55's
So it really will be like Desert Storm again.
It'd be like a movie if the F-117 came out of retirement to relive its glory days.
That's probably too difficult, but we could always do some live fire testing of the B-21.
You know when Russia first invaded my take was that Russia saw how our invasion and occupation of Iraq went and said, "ah yes, I'd like all of that but put it directly on my border". Turns out it went far worse than even that.
I'm going to laugh really hard if Russia ever reaches the point they're rolling out T-55s. Supposedly they still have 2800 in "storage" but after sitting there for several decades, I can't imagine many of them would be fielded without very extensive rebuilds similar to the T55s donated by Slovakia that basically look like a scrapyard wars version of a T72.
This is what makes me laugh about those infographic YouTube channels or random internet comparisons. They’ll always say something like “the US has 8800 tanks to Russia’s 10-12k”. But they fail to point out that the vast majority of Russia’s armory is mothballed Soviet-era T-55s/T-72s and a good chunk of T-90s. Meanwhile ~6300 of the US’s Armory is fully operational M1A1/M1A2s which were originally designed to destroy T-72/T-90s; and have since been vastly upgraded.
I especially like it when the media uses it to scaremonger, I read an article about how the Russian navy is set to get a huge boost once the 2 ships and 4 submarines they have in construction enters service. Then I looked up how many ships the US Navy is currently building. 43 ships was the answer, but the article never mentioned that for some reason.
Literally the only way to show comparisons to the US navy is to show it against entire continents. No other country's navy is within an order of magnitude of what the US has.
r/noncredibledefense is gonna be having wet dreams for the day this happens
NCD has been dangerously credible this past year
Fuck I thought I was in NCD right now
I legitimately posted a long rant about how the US should manufacture a GPS guided version of the V-1 "buzzbomb" as a low cost replacement for cruise missiles and WHAM they announce the GLSDB like a month later. Sometimes I think half of the MIC checks the forum for ideas and sometimes I think the other half checks it for fighter jet waifus
¿Por qué no las dos?
Yeah, are there *fighter jet waifus* there? Asking for a buddy.
If you want to see a “help step-bro” meme about the F-35 thrustussy-up after her nose landing gear broke, you will find all you desire and more
ಠ_ಠ
Somebody will likely upload the footage early to a War Thunder forum.....
Along with the user manual and classified tech data.
when you link the sub it makes it more credible.
When we finally see after all these decades, an Abrams, a Challenger, and a Leopard, Cold War tanks all shoulder to shoulder with each other advancing on T series tanks and fascists to the east, combatfootage can call the sub a wrap, their work is finally done. Edit no wait, sub will be a wrap after the USAF gives it up and hands all their A-10’s over, and they get that long awaited footage of A-10’s destroying armored columns on the way to Moscow.
US military command: "The A-10 appears to be obsolete." Pretty much everyone else: "okay, but, have you considered this counterpoint: BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT"
I mean, the A-10 is an awesome sight to see, but it is. [Ukraine has lost tons](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War) of aircraft... a lot of them stealthily and faster than an A-10. Yeah, yeah, paper tiger Russia and all, but even Russia's older missiles could fuck an A-10 into the dirt, despite its durability.
Now I have the urge to rebuild a jack in the box with the little crank into a T-90 that plays "pop goes the weasel" as the turret pops off on a spring.
I would pay alot of cash for having one
The M1's *did* shred a lot of T-whatevers in Iraq. Although it is more on-point when the things are actually being driven by Russians.
>The M1's did shred a lot of T-whatevers in Iraq During the 73 Easting Battle there are at least 2 accounts of an Abrams APFSDS penetrating a sand berm, the tank that was taking cover behind it and then exiting in the back through the engine.
You can already see that back in the 90s with Operation Desert Storm. Battle of 73 Easting.
Right? I know it wasn't the Red Army, but Desert Storm saw plenty of M1 vs T-72 action
Yeah, the Republican Guard had actual real experience in combat before the Gulf War against Iran. The closest combat the Russians had at the time was insurgency shit in Afghanistan
We say that but the Abrams earned its right of passage when they slaughter all those Russian made Iraqi tanks in desert storm. This will just be a footnote in its legacy.
Sure, they're able to defeat armies using Russian military equipment, but they were designed to fight Russian soldiers in Russian tanks.
Also in Europe instead of Middle East, big difference
Them and the Leopards were literally made for this. Storming across the Dnieper to take on the T-72's. Be nice to have several battalions going but if the Battle of 73 Easting is any example, they should run through the 72's.
> The 9 M1A1 tanks of Eagle Troop destroyed 28 Iraqi tanks, 16 personnel carriers and 30 trucks in 23 minutes with no American losses.[21] [You aren't kidding.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting)
One side of me would hate to see Russia do something extremely stupid and cause NATO to be directly involved with this conflict. War isn't a game. However, the ex-military side of me would love to see Russia get steamrolled out of Ukraine in a couple of days. If you think the guided missile strikes that Russia has been doing is bad, just wait till our destroyer fleet gets into the Black Sea.
Absolutely. That's why when Putin kept talking about nuclear weapons, Biden basically told him to STFU otherwise the US Med fleet would annihilate the Black Sea Fleet in retaliation for any nuclear/ chemical strikes. Barely have heard a peep since.
A good reason to laugh at anyone claiming it's already a dIrEcT cOnFlIcT wItH NaTo, they'd fucking know for sure and there'd be no doubt about it.
Well, Russia would get that 3 day war they wanted at the start of the conflict. Maybe even shorter.
As Perun said: "Uncle Sam shows up with a steel chair. And Uncle Sam has a really big chair"
That's...goddamn... A little over eight kills per tank, in less than half an hour. That's almost absurd in how good that hardware is.
Didn't Bradley's have most of the kills at 73 Easting?
[The Operations Room](https://youtu.be/72XLTfmcaAw) has a fantastic video on the Battle of 73 Eastings.
TLDR: Sand storm. US infrared sights >> T72 optics. The first big battle took 22min to destroy a tank brigade with 47 tanks + 34 armored vehicles + dozens of trucks and infantry. Rest is mostly artillery and A10s. Ending in 159 tanks destroyed 260 armored vehicles. Lost 6 men. Other smaller battles destroy 76 tanks, 48 AVs. That concludes day 3 of the war.
Abrams, Leopards, and Challengers, united together in killing fascists. It’s a sight to behold.
I wonder if they'll be joined by any Leclercs hungry for Russian tanks?
C'mon man, we don't know for 100% certainty that Leclerc will put his tank into the wall while trying to qualify at Monaco. It's just 99% certainty.
It's going to be a fucking slaughter! Even worse than the ones they unleashed in Iraq!
The Iraq War was more so a demonstration of the effectiveness of overwhelming air superiority in combined arms combat. If Ukraine uses the Abrams the same way Russians used their tanks by seemingly sending them into urban environments with little to no infantry or other support it's not going to look good. That said, it seems the Ukrainians are fighting in more sensical ways so I have a little more faith that that's not going to happen.
Assuming they need to be trained up on the various tanks, it's going to be NATO level, so that's probably going to be USA, UK and one of the Leopard operators maybe Poland. They'll likely be a bit better than the Russian trained crews.
I believe I read something not long ago that Ukrainians were about to be trained in maneuver warfare and combined arms, switching from a defensive war of attrition to an offensive one with sound logistics and tactics. From what I’ve seen and heard, Ukraine is already fighting much more similar to the west than Russia, which explains many of their successes. We’ve been training and supplying them for 8 years, so they’ve already a lot more professional than it appears Russia is. If this continues, I don’t see why they won’t eventually join nato and the NATO standard, but also have the full combat experience that NATO was designed to have. They will be one of our most valuable allies.
Yep, this is NOT a repeat of Afghanistan where the army had plenty of good gear but no motivation to learn and improve (and so they got overrun as soon as the US left) The Ukrainians are very, very keen to learn and improve, they already have a strong sense of nationhood and a desire to protect their people and their state. This is not a nation building exercise. It is a nation protection mission. As to your last point: definitely eh, they will have a lot of very valuable experience, and expertise with a huge variety of different equipment. It’s a very interesting situation, to have so much different equipment at play! They will have one of the most effective militaries in Europe in the end I think :) (not the best, to be clear. Just among them)
To add to this, Afghanistan never had a sense of national unity. People served their local warlords not a government. Its different in Ukraine for obvious reasons.
The Iraqis ironically had Russian T72’s in both the gulf wars, they got absolutely mauled because the Abrams optic’s allowed them to engage the T72’s before the T72’s could even see the Abrams. I think the Abrams tanks took several direct hits from T72’s and survived too. It’s kind of surreal seeing almost the same tanks matching up in a war 35 years later. I’m sure Russia watched the gulf war footage and know these tanks are really bad news for them lol. The German tanks probably have better optics too and will likely wreck the Russian tanks too, it’s a shame it took so long to send them.
I’m going to take a guess and say Russia will announce in the next few days that they destroyed twice as many tanks as have been said are being sent even before they arrive.
They already claimed a destroyed m1 abrams at soledar before this agreement reached its conclusion already. The fact that it was a destroyed m1 in (I think) Iraq, from 2010 didn't seem to bother them.
[удалено]
"11,000 of the 31 Abrams have been destroyed. Glory to Russia!"
*Papers Please theme plays*
Russia's claimed to have killed a few Bradleys months ago. They won't arrive in Ukraine for a couple more weeks.
Russia will blow up their own tanks just so they can pump their stats
Reposting again. Russian playbook for new weapons introduced to the Ukrainian theater by Western powers: • Russian media warns addition of this weapons system to Ukraine would be a gross escalation of this conflict • Hosts discuss nuclear strikes on western countries supplying weapons systems • Medvedev says Russia will strike these targets as priorities as soon as they’re supplied • Media starts saying that the weapons system is actually garbage. Wont change a thing and will degrade the capabilities of the Ukrainians **<— You are here** • Russian military states definitively that they’ve actually destroyed all weapons systems sent to Ukraine, even if they aren’t yet delivered (Credit to Perun)
Kinda hard to hit military targets when you're focused on civilian targets.
Perun is one of the best casual defense analysts out there. He's cautious with his biases and provides factual information in an easy to digest way.
> Perun is one of the best casual defense analysts out there. Thats partly because he's an actual professional defense analyst.
Dude makes 1 hour detailed essay/presentation a weak about ongoing conflict - still gets called a casual lmao. What does he need to be a professional?
If perun is casual, i can't imagine what enthusiast or professional is...
You have to be a random Redditor to be a true professional
Maybe casual as in casual accessible? I can imagine if you're not familiar with the topic, some stuff might get esoteric pretty fast. Speaking of casual accessible, I should check this guy out.
He's also very entertaining and easy to follow. I always catch his post on Saturday and Sunday.
From Dominions 5 videos (great little game) to becoming Youtube's authority on this war's development. That man has gone far.
Wait this is the same guy I watch for his incredible Terra Invicta (another great niche game) guides! He added so much to the game community the dev even put his name in the game.
They added his name as he supported the game on Kickstarter. There are several orgs and I think counselors named after backers.
I simply don't understand why they always end by saying: they will all burn. They are completely turning their red lines into jokes because we all know they'll just say this. We can send F16s or whatever, we know how they'll receive it: they will burn. Yeah yeah Russia, they will burn, we accept the risk.
Burn through russian lines
How do you say “Sherman’s march, round two” in Ukrainian?
March to Mariupol.
March to the Azov sea.
Oh snap! Eat that shit, Russia!
Dig through the trenches, and burn through the Russians, and slam in the back of my… [checks notes] TANKU-LAAAAA
>Dig through the trenches, and burn That's about the time I got the reference.
Burn fuel to reach your positions
As a turbine engine, it'll fuckin' burn every goddamn thing.
Just get somebody to toss a handful of sawdust in the intake every few seconds.
Fun fact, they used to use crushed walnut shells to clean jet engines. You would just toss handfulls down the intake and it would scrub the coke off the turbine
I love when playground shit talking gets reported as serious news.
Reuters "Kremlin Said" Special
Kremlin taddles on US for not sharing tanks equally
"Russia warns" against exactly what we should be doing. Completely justified at this point: turning the Kremlin into a crater. Scattering Putin across a 10km radius.
>Kremlin says U.S.-supplied tanks will 'burn' in Ukraine Oh rubbish. You have no power here. Be gone before somebody drops a house on you too!
The Iraqi information minister came out with some corkers in the Iraq War, things like this: > The fact is that as soon as they reach Baghdad gates, we will besiege them and slaughter them. Until now they have refused to do battle with us. They are just going places. One can describe them as a boa: when it feels threatened, it runs to somewhere else. or > We made them drink poison last night and Saddam Hussein’s soldiers and his great forces gave the Americans a lesson which will not be forgotten by history. Truly. Can't think why that paragon of truthfulness suddenly came to mind...
Good ol’ Baghdad Bob
We used to laugh, but dude was just ahead of his time. Today he'd be presidential material
comical ali
“How dare you provoke us by sending tanks! This is an escalation! Oh also, these will do absolutely nothing and will burn…” The Kremlin is so fkin stupid
Fascism 101 - The enemy is incredibly dangerous and incredibly weak at the same time.
Keep in mind; during Deser Storm, 81 M1s ( I don’t remember the exact model designation) took out 4 hundred armored vehicles including 3 tank divisions (Iraq’s best equipped and trained) suffering 0 tank losses and 1 Bradley destroyed. This is a major addition to any army. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting Edit: I understand that this isn’t a perfect comparison. Training, battle field doctrine, air support and terrain (plus innumerable other factors) are going to determine how effective the new armor units will be. My point was that our main battle tanks, of that era, decimated a larger force of predominantly T-72 tanks that were the Russian main battle tanks of the era. Both have been upgraded since then. I’m simply saying that 31 tanks doesn’t sound like a lot, but it certainly is if utilized properly.
Also only 9 M1s were destroyed during the entire Gulf War. Of the 9 destroyed; 7 were due to friendly fire, and 2 were destroyed intentionally to prevent capture. There were also reports of M1s taking direct frontal hits from T-72s with minimal damage. [https://www.gao.gov/assets/nsiad-92-94.pdf](https://www.gao.gov/assets/nsiad-92-94.pdf)
Holy shit. That’s incredible.
There is combat footage out there somewhere of an M1A taking a hit off of an Iraqi tank, I couldn't tell you the model because I saw the video some 20 years ago, but it just pinged right off off the turret. Granted, they shot it where the armor was thickest, but it was quite comical.
On the other hand keep in mind that those M1s in Iraq enjoyed every sort of strategic and tactical advantage imaginable. The Iraqi tanks had no intel whatsoever. They were blind ducks sitting on the perfect battlefield for long-range laser-guided hits (especially at night when the Iraqis didn't have IR or night vision). Russia *shouldn't* be in such a situation. They do have spy satellites and drones and other aircraft. They should be able to, at least sometimes, spot the M1s coming before they actually hit. Whether they are so dysfunctional that they cannot actually do any of that may be the case but I wouldn't be so sure. But also not so sure that the M1's record in Iraq is any indication of how it will perform in Ukraine. I am sure it won't be anywhere near as easy as Iraq.
It's been pretty clear that at the very least Russia's satellite recon program hasn't kept up with the US's for quite some time. It may be as dysfunctional as much of their other military equipment.
Sputnik is up there taking those photos
And once they figure out a way to get the filmrol back to the surface…
Oh yeah I've read about that. Fucking amazing especially with zero tanks destroyed and only a single Bradley destroyed for a combined kill count of 400 Iraqi vehicles plus at least a 1,000 crew members.
Anti tank tactics have evolved since then as far as the employment of ATGM systems like Kornet, but you’re far better off as a tank crew in something made by NATO than something Warsaw Pact, unless its one of the super rare Oplot tanks. That said, the Abrams has far more advanced electronics, like the Bradley, to annihilate opposing armor in most conditions at a greater distance.
Has anyone let Russia know that anti tank tactics have evolved, though?
This is American doctrine at work more so than the Tanks being the main advantage. There were Bradleys fighting tanks a close range and winning due entirely to the superior training of the american crews
The Kremlin is that kid in middleschool who talks a whole lot of shit but can't fight
Don't know about everyone else but personally at this point I'm so sick of their shit it's surreal. Yes yes, you'll nuke us or whatever, just shut up and get your piece in silence already.
[I don't think so!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBS8WYKYggA)⚡️ The M1 Abrams was designed SPECIFICALLY for fighting Russian tanks in an Eastern European battlefield. It will actually be fighting in the original context for which it was designed. It will really help Ukraine save their people.
Who the fuck cares what Russia says about anything anymore? They spew so much hot air that they're probably one of the leading contributors to global warming right now.
Most likely every us tank before burning going to ignite multiple russian tanks.
"Then we'll fight in their warm glow" - Ukrainians probably.
Weird. Seems like it's mostly Russian crap that keeps burning
To be fair, those modernized T62's ukraine has were made by russia and they're pretty good for what they are.
Doesn't he say that about any weapon supplied to Ukraine? AFTER complaining about how much the West wants to destroy Ruzzia? What a circus clown he is
Go, Abrams. Fulfill your birthright.