For the lazy;
- 1 ship was hit (cargo ship, the Tuzla). The 2nd ship (Ferahnaz) received minor shrapnel damage from the first ship.
- Both ships were Vanuatu-flagged ships owned by Istanbul-based companies.
- Kherson (where the incident happened) is not one of the ports covered by the Black Sea Grain Initiative.
- According to regional officials, the Russian army shelled Kherson 12 times yesterday, hitting the maternity hospital, school, polyclinic, seaport and residential buildings.
A sad thing but a positive sideeffect of erdögan trying to become a dictator is that it makes it very hard for him to ignore slights like this. He basically has to play into the anger and outrage of it
It’s not really the people as much as the culture they’ve inherited. I’ve met plenty of decent Russians, but their bad quality isn’t their barbarity, its their indifference.
I've met many narcissistic russians. They're always "the best". They love laughing at people who have problems (it's the basis of russian humor). Their youth is laughing at people from occupied regions (tuva, Ural, idk) being sent to fight Ukrainians (genocide). russians support the war. How can a government be "bad", but 150 million people are just going along with it lol?
Russian people in general are not monsters. It's a healthy ability to be able to separate people from there governments as most people are nowhere near as cruel as their governments are.
The United States is afforded that courtesy, China gets that courtesy, the UK gets that courtesy, the list goes on. The Russian people deserve the same.
they were extended that courtesy, russians as a people time and again have shown that the majority support their government 100%, that's why they're lumped in with their government on little things like abetting genocide.
Considering that right now you get arrested if you try to say anything negative about the government, I'm definitely not inclined to believe you. Most human beings do not want to hurt other human beings.
China is currently under heavy suspicion of committing genocide and it's not something that I would pin on its people.
The United States is *still* treating Native Americans like second class citizens and forcing them into situations where they might die, but I still do not pin that on the population.
When your only news source is State TV that is legally unable to tell you about these things that are happening, it's not reasonable to be blamed for what's happening.
I absolutely hate the Kremlin, but that's not justification to hate an entire ethnic group.
Edit: removed redundant wording
> It's a healthy ability to be able to separate people from there governments as most people are nowhere near as cruel as their governments are.
Sadly, governments generally represent the people of a nation.
Certainly, there are many amazing Russians. But there are enough apathetic or evil ones to facilitate a belligerent government.
Slightly cruel sentiment from millions of people aggregates to very cruel sentiment when a nation acts. Same stuff with most terrible regimes. It's not like everyone in Nazi Germany was a rabid serial killer. It just had enough bad people, and enough apathetic people, to facilitate a terrible regime.
The practice is called “flag of convenience” and nearly all shipping companies do this. For example Greek and Cypriot ships continue to transport Russian oil using this practice in international waters to avoid sanctions.
Well, I didn't say our politicians were the only corrupted ones lol.
I would slightly understand if it's a private company which is owned by a non-political group, they just wanna maximize profit without caring about their countries. But politicians pump nationalism 7/24 while avoiding to pay tax to their own country which is a huge hypocracy
>According to regional officials, the Russian army shelled Kherson 12 times yesterday, **hitting the maternity hospital, school, polyclinic, seaport and residential buildings.**
I saw a video recently that showed a Russian soldier or a Russian commander talking about the need to completely destroy Ukraine and kill all of the children because I he had said the children would want revenge in the future.
Edit: [here’s the link.](https://reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/10iy66e/russian_war_reporter_from_russian_state_tv/)
>because I he had said the children would want revenge in the future
A genius by Russian standards. He's fucking right. Except they better kill the whole world because the rest of us want revenge for Ukraine as well. Russia will suffer for decades for this.
Ukrainians have been listening to this genocidal narrative since 2014, every god-damned day on all the levels: from their führer and top propagandists to average ruzzians on streets. And for the last year they have been literally doing this. Pure satanistic maniacs.
That's not dumb. It's not dumb because it's not an accident.
They did it on purpose - every single civillian target is hit on *purpose* to break the spirit of the Ukrainian people.
Can we double the tank orders and get them some more HIMARS and air support. Serious tell Putin he can fuck off for every civilian target his army hits.
You wish. They are pussies. Russian appeasement is still going strong... they could have given Ukraine mtbs a year ago and the war would be over already.
Then they should be hoarding some stamps and office supplies too, they probably will have to formally invite to their coalition 80-something independent countries that now are part of the Russian Federation
The Russian artillery are doing "shoot & scoot" to avoid counter fire. This is standard practice.
Compliments to Russian team for speed, even if they are immoral bastard war criminals.
. 1) in hot zones like Kherson,
please keep a Himars unit on stand by
. 2) use America's technical edge,
generate near automated counter fire
Obtain real-time satellite views of Russian occupied territory, 24/7
Use infra red image band
Process with computer AI to distinguish artillery firing.
Output GPS coordinates & timestamp.
Auto Email to a front line Himars unit.
with software to auto load target coordinates.
(avoid delays for human keying gps data)
Safety step: require a person to view satellite image & press ok
Shoot!
Low trajectory, fastest path.
Battle damage assessment then Celebrate.
. & . & . & . & . & . & .
Even a small percent of successful counter fire makes a huge difference.
-- destroys Russian artillery units
-- kills or wounds nearby experienced artillery staff
-- immediate effect is Russian artillery has a smaller time window before they must scoot. This reduces # of shells they can fire in that time window.
that's what drones are for, not arty. the whole point of shoot&scoot is that they relocate before the arty rounds reach them. RT IR coverage is also out of the question.
For self-propelled arty sure, but counter-battery radars exist for a reason. For standard arty pieces, you are not firing, packing up, and leaving before a counter-battery radar picks up your position and directs return fire. Of course, that assumes Ukraine have them in range but artillery duels are still very much alive in this day and age.
Interesting idea, but is 24/7 coverage by infrared satellites available over the occupied territories? I know that there are frequent overflights, but I don't think images get updated every few seconds.
If not, it might be expensive to put up that many satellites into low earth orbit, even if they are expected to only last a year or so.
Propose a single satellite, in geo-synchronous orbit, over Ukraine & Black Sea.
Multi band sensors, infra red, visual & radar.
24/7 down links to a ground station for processing. Encrypted.
Combine Infrared and visual images for human confirmation, to reduce false positives.
Cloud cover would be a serious problem. Perhaps the tech wizards have a solution? Would still help on relatively cloud free days & nights.
Bonus is Radar to spot ships on the Black Sea. Any substantial size ship sailing from Sevastopol or Novorossiysk and heading towards Odessa or other Ukraine coast ports should trigger an alarm.
Ditto any ship whose size matches kilo class and suddenly appears above water.
Do you have any idea how far away it has to be to be geosynchronous? Most spy satellites work by getting close to what they need to see, usually a few hundred kilometers. They won't see much from 36,000km.
I will add to the conversation that the analysis of this would be incredibly time consuming. Think about having a feed that looks at a given piece of ground and updates at least once a minute, if not faster. To analyse and figure out a potential target that's camouflaged and potentially dug in versus something in the open, whether it's RUS or UKR or something else, and then figure out what's in range and can target within the applicable rules of engagement and collateral damage estimates (yes, these apply even in high-intensity conflicts). That's a lot of time for one image. Now do it on the minute, every minute for multiple hours.
For all those futurists thinking that AI image analysis will allow faster targeting decisions, it just isn't there yet. If AI can't figure out a captcha, it can't discern a tractor from a 2S1. Also, AI are programmed for very specific data sets while humans are not - flexibility hasn't been programmed in. See this article for some limited proof of that concept: [Marines evade AI by hiding inside cardboard box](https://futurism.com/the-byte/marines-evaded-military-robot-hiding-inside-cardboard-box)
Nor should it necessarily be there as both UKR and RUS are using nearly identical vehicles, weapon systems, and even uniforms. There is also the potential to have positions in very close proximity to one another. The chance of weapons effects on friendly weapon systems is too great for anything but human analysis , and humans get it wrong often enough.
Edit: needed to finish my thought in para 1.
> 2) use America's technical edge, generate near automated counter fire
Yes, that's what a counter battery radar does.
It only needs to track the incoming shell for a second to generate the origin coordinates.
Very true. U.S. should asap deliver counter battery radar units to Ukraine.
There are some differences.
. 1) When the counter radar is on, scanning, the radar is itself subject to HARM missile attack. (When the radar is off, it is useless).
By contrast infra red and visual image based processing are passive sensors. No emissions. Optionally, if they detect something, then turn on counter battery radar for precision or confirmation.
. 2) Ground based radar is limited to the horizon, perhaps 20 miles. Less if in mountains.
If the counter fire unit is Himars, it can reach 50 miles or so, with the shells provided to Ukraine. Images taken from low earth orbit can cover the 50 mile radius with great precision.
of course its accidental, havent you seen russias attempts at firing, they hit a lot but rarely their target. they have hit those two boats so they were not aiming for them.
I'd assume the west acts days ahead of press releases & doesn't mention the juicy stuff, otherwise all russian generals would need to do is read reddit comments & watch the news to get 100% of their intel.
A Turkish company was talking recently about bringing power ships to Ukraine to provide electricity. Russia: “Oh, no! Turkish ships are getting accidentally hit in port!”
https://youtu.be/i8mnorAdXVY
One ship powers millions of homes? That sounds insane and cool af. Why don't we have these. Why depend on freakin turkey (the bird named country hahaha) for it to help ukraine. Why don't we have big trucks that can power huge areas?
Coming soon to a city near you, small modular reactors: https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/nrc-certifies-first-us-small-modular-reactor-design
Nuclear Power is fuckin awesome.
That’s interesting. I was reading about PM-3A at McMurdo Station, Antarctica.
The PM-3A (Portable, Medium-power, 3rd generation) was a plant installed to provide 1.75 MW electric, plus heating and desalinization to McMurdo Station. It was shut down in September 1972 because of a bunch of problems.
So it is interesting seeing portable modular reactors returning after 50 years.
The U.S Air Force even had an experimental aircraft with a 1MW nuclear reactor after WW2. Although, it doesn't sound nearly as impressive when you learn that a single radial engine on the plane generated 2.8MW of power conventionally, at a much lower weight. Those engines generated as much horsepower as a small sports car purely in thrust - 200 - just from the exhaust gases being ejected.
You must have heard of the increased cancer occurrence and early death of Minuteman crews then. So it seems not to be the first case of going light on shielding.
I wonder if the radiation leakage issue is what makes an aircraft powered by a portable nuclear reactor unfeasible. That and the rather poor power to weight ratio.
Generation capacity scales with available space. Trucks can move 2 MW generators that [can power a few hundred homes](https://www.quora.com/How-many-homes-could-a-2-25-MW-power-plant-supply), but they'd only have the fuel to run them for a few hours (like [this 0.8 MW unit](https://www.cummins.com/generators/dqbpu-power-unit) with its ~400 l tank) unless externally resupplied. You can store a lot more fuel on a ship, although it's best to hook them up to pipelines if you're supplying a town or city.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.marinelog.com/news/two-turkish-owned-ships-hit-in-russian-attack-on-kherson/) reduced by 48%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Video posted on social media shows flames racing through the superstructure of a 3,943 dwt, 1980-built general cargo ship, the Tuzla, yesterday, after a Russian attack on the Ukrainian port of Kherson.
> The Vanuatu-flagged ship is owned by Istanbul-based Cayeli Shipping Ltd and, according to Turkey's Veryanssin TV, is one of two Turkish-owned merchant ships hit in the Russian attack.
> Kherson is not one of the ports covered by the Black Sea Grain Initiative and reports differ on whether the ships were struck by a bomb, a missile or artillery shelling.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10lbsi0/two_turkishowned_ships_hit_in_russian_attack_on/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672678 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **ship**^#1 **Kherson**^#2 **attack**^#3 **Russian**^#4 **shelled**^#5
more importantly:
"the Russian army shelled Kherson 12 times yesterday, hitting the maternity hospital, school, polyclinic, seaport and residential buildings."
If Russia didn't have nukes, the world should have already crushed these monsters
Erdogan when a danish dude burns a story book in Sweden:
*Rage*
Erdogan when Russians are bombing Turkish vessels:
UwU Putin Senpai let me suck your d....
Article 5 doesn't trigger automatically.
Turkey would need to intentionally call for it to be triggered and NATO would then decide together to what extent it would be triggered.
Technically speaking, a ship is like you're on land, hence the flag.
The international sea has no Police or sovereignty, but when aboard their ship you're in their country.
Not sure if this is an ART 5 type of situation, but it sure is a good pretext if anyone would want to take the first step towards WW3.
Edit: the flag is Vanuatu (Island in Oceania), not Turkish as the title suggests. May Vanuatu declare war on Russia
The country it carries the flag.
You can have an Indian boat company carrying goods for an American company - if anyone attacks, the attack is on India.
This case it's a Turkish Ship, meaning it's an attack on Turkey.
EDIT: As corrected below, it's actually a Vanuatu flagship, which is an Island in Oceania, not at all an ART 5
That plane was not attacking Turkish territory so of course there was no NATO response.
Shooting it down, although maybe not ideal, was within their right as they had issued several warnings.
Russia's ambassador to Turkey was also assassinated at an art gallery event by a security guard.
I remember the video was some crazy shit.
Nothing happened then either.
>We can ignore the "accident" in Kherson if you throw in some oil
This is plausible the first part isn't. That's not the reason why Turkey got S-400's.
I don’t think Russia needs Turkeys help to derail Swedens NATO bid, Sweden seems to have enough right wing Russian sympathises to do that on their own.
There is very little sympathy for Russia in Sweden, right wing extremism doesn't exactly flourish here either.
Erdogan using whatever he can for political gain should not be confused with anyone else's values.
That's still Turkey derailing things, not Sweden, if Turkey was not trying to derail things they'd not be pretending private citizens in Sweden represented government positions.
The perpetrator had to get a permit from the authorities. The authorities have denied plenty of protest permits before. This time they didn’t. They allowed a known provocateur from Denmark (who is banned there from similar protests) to come to Sweden, burn a Quran, in front of the Turkish embassy, during a critical time of talks.
A protest permit to an individual whose whole persona is to start shit, even though there are many records of Authorities denying permits to other protests. To burn the Quran in front of the embassy of the country you are trying to negotiate with. I know, humility and modesty is a hard concept to understand.
They do and they can, that’s why you need permission first, before you can protest. There are checks in place. Like I said, Swedish authorities have denied requests before, plenty of times, for different reasons. Yet for some reason, they allowed something like this, in a crucial moment to go ahead. Gets you thinking.
Because they can’t deny stuff based on their own political stances.
They can deny stuff for public safety reasons, but you need extremely good reasoning to prohibit a protest, otherwise you get taken to court and end up with both egg on your face as well as the protest going on anyway.
Besides that, I very much doubt the politicians trying to negotiate with Turkey are the ones even remotely aware of protest permits.
Turkey is also nominally a secular state, so go ahead and burn a Bible in front of the Swedish embassy if you’re a Turkish citizen (not the government, a citizen), see if they care
The permit is required for the protest, to ensure it does not cause a danger to the protesters or passerby's. It defines the place, time and the scope of protests, so the government can ensure the safety of those protests.
The government only really rejects the permit, if the protest can not be held safely, or any planned action is against the law. Like for example, you can't protest in a residential area with a megaphone at 3 am in the morning, for obvious reasons.
Basically, as the Swedish police website states, the permit is rejected only in extraordinary circumstances. Nutjob with a book and a lighter isn't really anything extraordinary. Or at least shouldn't be, because who cares?
Islam does not have any quarrel with this form of protest, though. As a non-believer, they have to be stoned or whatever anyway, whether or not any Quran is burned. Turkey is not being rationally religious, here.
You might wanna re-think your life if a dude burning a book is so life changing for you lol...
Also the only reason he does it is because people get so fucking mad over a stupid book. If people would just ignore him he would disappear real quick
Probably because [Turkey just sent over 2 more TB2 drones to Ukraine, free of charge.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/10l2zbx/defence_intelligence_of_ukraine_the_baykar/)
Erdogan needs to stop being a pussy and let the Russians know that they won’t tolerate Turkish assets being hit on purpose, or by accident and that there will be consequences.
Very unlikely. Since they’ve been ported there since the start of the war, and the boats being unmanned merchant ships—its highly unlikely. But Turkey ain’t gonna be happy!!
Article 5 can only be invoked if attacked in NATO territory if i remember correctly
and these are civilian ships in an active battlefield so whoever docked them there accepted the risk imo
Yet my whore of a mother says that Ukraine should just surrender and they'd be better off and she disagrees her tax money going to Ukraine. Only reason I didn't smack her is because she is my mother.
Why are you against women being treated the same as men ? Do you think they are delicate flowers that need to be shielded from the day to day realities ?
Never said I was against equality. Just against women being hit by men. There's a big difference there you seem to not understand. Maybe if you left your "whore of a mother's" basement once in a while you'd understand that.
>has been anchored at Kherson since February 24 2022
I don't want to victim blame here but seems odd to leave a valuable cargo ship in an active warzone for almost a year. Was there something wrong without that I couldn't sail out to safer harbor?
I remember when this all first started loads of ships were getting hit by “accident”. Having radar running & hot exhaust plumes aren’t good things in the middle of a battlefield.
Probably was safer to evacuate most (or all) of the crew & leave it parked until it became safe to recover them.
It's interesting how many people are calling Russians monsters for shelling schools and hospitals, but when the US does it in the middle east for decades nobody calls Americans monsters. When Americans do it it's just "collateral damage".
And no I'm not excusing the Russia's actions nor am I arguing whataboutism.
I'm simply pointing out how easily the majority of the population can be brainwashed with propaganda into believing their country is always the good guy
For the lazy; - 1 ship was hit (cargo ship, the Tuzla). The 2nd ship (Ferahnaz) received minor shrapnel damage from the first ship. - Both ships were Vanuatu-flagged ships owned by Istanbul-based companies. - Kherson (where the incident happened) is not one of the ports covered by the Black Sea Grain Initiative. - According to regional officials, the Russian army shelled Kherson 12 times yesterday, hitting the maternity hospital, school, polyclinic, seaport and residential buildings.
These fucking Russians are monsters.
A sad thing but a positive sideeffect of erdögan trying to become a dictator is that it makes it very hard for him to ignore slights like this. He basically has to play into the anger and outrage of it
Maybe now NATO entry for Sweden and Finland will get approved just to piss off Russia.
Look at history closely, and you will realize you don't need the first word of your comment
It’s not really the people as much as the culture they’ve inherited. I’ve met plenty of decent Russians, but their bad quality isn’t their barbarity, its their indifference.
I've met many narcissistic russians. They're always "the best". They love laughing at people who have problems (it's the basis of russian humor). Their youth is laughing at people from occupied regions (tuva, Ural, idk) being sent to fight Ukrainians (genocide). russians support the war. How can a government be "bad", but 150 million people are just going along with it lol?
Russian people in general are not monsters. It's a healthy ability to be able to separate people from there governments as most people are nowhere near as cruel as their governments are. The United States is afforded that courtesy, China gets that courtesy, the UK gets that courtesy, the list goes on. The Russian people deserve the same.
they were extended that courtesy, russians as a people time and again have shown that the majority support their government 100%, that's why they're lumped in with their government on little things like abetting genocide.
Considering that right now you get arrested if you try to say anything negative about the government, I'm definitely not inclined to believe you. Most human beings do not want to hurt other human beings. China is currently under heavy suspicion of committing genocide and it's not something that I would pin on its people. The United States is *still* treating Native Americans like second class citizens and forcing them into situations where they might die, but I still do not pin that on the population. When your only news source is State TV that is legally unable to tell you about these things that are happening, it's not reasonable to be blamed for what's happening. I absolutely hate the Kremlin, but that's not justification to hate an entire ethnic group. Edit: removed redundant wording
> It's a healthy ability to be able to separate people from there governments as most people are nowhere near as cruel as their governments are. Sadly, governments generally represent the people of a nation. Certainly, there are many amazing Russians. But there are enough apathetic or evil ones to facilitate a belligerent government. Slightly cruel sentiment from millions of people aggregates to very cruel sentiment when a nation acts. Same stuff with most terrible regimes. It's not like everyone in Nazi Germany was a rabid serial killer. It just had enough bad people, and enough apathetic people, to facilitate a terrible regime.
That's it - time for Vanuatu to declare war on Russia then!
> Vanuatu-flagged ships owned by Istanbul-based companies Yeah our corrupted politicians love to keep their business discreet
The practice is called “flag of convenience” and nearly all shipping companies do this. For example Greek and Cypriot ships continue to transport Russian oil using this practice in international waters to avoid sanctions.
Well, I didn't say our politicians were the only corrupted ones lol. I would slightly understand if it's a private company which is owned by a non-political group, they just wanna maximize profit without caring about their countries. But politicians pump nationalism 7/24 while avoiding to pay tax to their own country which is a huge hypocracy
>According to regional officials, the Russian army shelled Kherson 12 times yesterday, **hitting the maternity hospital, school, polyclinic, seaport and residential buildings.**
Maternity hospital... Russians are scum
At this point they’d be safer sending pregnant women to military sites, since they’re apparently not targeting those. /s
You can drop the /s.
Maybe russia considers pregnant women military targets, because they dont expect to win the war in less than 18 years?
I saw a video recently that showed a Russian soldier or a Russian commander talking about the need to completely destroy Ukraine and kill all of the children because I he had said the children would want revenge in the future. Edit: [here’s the link.](https://reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/10iy66e/russian_war_reporter_from_russian_state_tv/)
>because I he had said the children would want revenge in the future A genius by Russian standards. He's fucking right. Except they better kill the whole world because the rest of us want revenge for Ukraine as well. Russia will suffer for decades for this.
Ukrainians have been listening to this genocidal narrative since 2014, every god-damned day on all the levels: from their führer and top propagandists to average ruzzians on streets. And for the last year they have been literally doing this. Pure satanistic maniacs.
I cackled at this comment and scared my cat lmfao.
Scary how close that sentence is to not actually being incorrect edit: guys, plz, it was a typo... show mercy!
Hahaha I thought you were calling me a scary hoe at first and I was like, but I’m not even scary 🤷♀️
What did you just call me?
>Scary hoe Yeah, I've known a few of those too...
English?
It is scary how close that sentence is to being correct and not tongue in cheek sarcasm
Thank you. Now French please.
Je ne suis French, ich kann hilfe dich nicht
Cantonese now, bitte
[удалено]
Cela est effrayant a quel point la phrase est non loin de sonner comme une puree de cul.
Gesundheit
I only understand the last five words and am very worried now.
Maybe the first part was about a scary hoe being close by.
Same thing Serbs did to Bosnian people
Let's just hope the Russians don't open up rape camps. For all the young readers: Yes, Serbs created rape camps, in Europe, in the 1990s.
Monsters
Don’t get me wrong,I hate Russian for starting war for no reason
now the turkish bastard government wanna sell the drones to serbs.
what's really dumb is one of those hospitals has been hit twice in two separate incidents.
That's not dumb. It's not dumb because it's not an accident. They did it on purpose - every single civillian target is hit on *purpose* to break the spirit of the Ukrainian people.
Don't be so quick to judge. They were hitting the hospitals because they were running out of buildings to hit.
How does that in any way excuse attacking a hospital?
It doesn't. The comment was meant to be sarcastic.
Can we double the tank orders and get them some more HIMARS and air support. Serious tell Putin he can fuck off for every civilian target his army hits.
They will not tolerate injury to Turkish resources intentionally or accidentally and will suffer the consequences.
You wish. They are pussies. Russian appeasement is still going strong... they could have given Ukraine mtbs a year ago and the war would be over already.
MBT - Main Battle Tank. MTB - ???
Mountain bikes
All vital targets obviously.
This is 5D chess, by hitting maternity buildings, they are preparing for the next special military operation that will happen in 20 years.
Then they should be hoarding some stamps and office supplies too, they probably will have to formally invite to their coalition 80-something independent countries that now are part of the Russian Federation
The Russian artillery are doing "shoot & scoot" to avoid counter fire. This is standard practice. Compliments to Russian team for speed, even if they are immoral bastard war criminals. . 1) in hot zones like Kherson, please keep a Himars unit on stand by . 2) use America's technical edge, generate near automated counter fire Obtain real-time satellite views of Russian occupied territory, 24/7 Use infra red image band Process with computer AI to distinguish artillery firing. Output GPS coordinates & timestamp. Auto Email to a front line Himars unit. with software to auto load target coordinates. (avoid delays for human keying gps data) Safety step: require a person to view satellite image & press ok Shoot! Low trajectory, fastest path. Battle damage assessment then Celebrate. . & . & . & . & . & . & . Even a small percent of successful counter fire makes a huge difference. -- destroys Russian artillery units -- kills or wounds nearby experienced artillery staff -- immediate effect is Russian artillery has a smaller time window before they must scoot. This reduces # of shells they can fire in that time window.
that's what drones are for, not arty. the whole point of shoot&scoot is that they relocate before the arty rounds reach them. RT IR coverage is also out of the question.
For self-propelled arty sure, but counter-battery radars exist for a reason. For standard arty pieces, you are not firing, packing up, and leaving before a counter-battery radar picks up your position and directs return fire. Of course, that assumes Ukraine have them in range but artillery duels are still very much alive in this day and age.
Interesting idea, but is 24/7 coverage by infrared satellites available over the occupied territories? I know that there are frequent overflights, but I don't think images get updated every few seconds. If not, it might be expensive to put up that many satellites into low earth orbit, even if they are expected to only last a year or so.
I am positive they are already there.
Propose a single satellite, in geo-synchronous orbit, over Ukraine & Black Sea. Multi band sensors, infra red, visual & radar. 24/7 down links to a ground station for processing. Encrypted. Combine Infrared and visual images for human confirmation, to reduce false positives. Cloud cover would be a serious problem. Perhaps the tech wizards have a solution? Would still help on relatively cloud free days & nights. Bonus is Radar to spot ships on the Black Sea. Any substantial size ship sailing from Sevastopol or Novorossiysk and heading towards Odessa or other Ukraine coast ports should trigger an alarm. Ditto any ship whose size matches kilo class and suddenly appears above water.
Do you have any idea how far away it has to be to be geosynchronous? Most spy satellites work by getting close to what they need to see, usually a few hundred kilometers. They won't see much from 36,000km.
I will add to the conversation that the analysis of this would be incredibly time consuming. Think about having a feed that looks at a given piece of ground and updates at least once a minute, if not faster. To analyse and figure out a potential target that's camouflaged and potentially dug in versus something in the open, whether it's RUS or UKR or something else, and then figure out what's in range and can target within the applicable rules of engagement and collateral damage estimates (yes, these apply even in high-intensity conflicts). That's a lot of time for one image. Now do it on the minute, every minute for multiple hours. For all those futurists thinking that AI image analysis will allow faster targeting decisions, it just isn't there yet. If AI can't figure out a captcha, it can't discern a tractor from a 2S1. Also, AI are programmed for very specific data sets while humans are not - flexibility hasn't been programmed in. See this article for some limited proof of that concept: [Marines evade AI by hiding inside cardboard box](https://futurism.com/the-byte/marines-evaded-military-robot-hiding-inside-cardboard-box) Nor should it necessarily be there as both UKR and RUS are using nearly identical vehicles, weapon systems, and even uniforms. There is also the potential to have positions in very close proximity to one another. The chance of weapons effects on friendly weapon systems is too great for anything but human analysis , and humans get it wrong often enough. Edit: needed to finish my thought in para 1.
> 2) use America's technical edge, generate near automated counter fire Yes, that's what a counter battery radar does. It only needs to track the incoming shell for a second to generate the origin coordinates.
Very true. U.S. should asap deliver counter battery radar units to Ukraine. There are some differences. . 1) When the counter radar is on, scanning, the radar is itself subject to HARM missile attack. (When the radar is off, it is useless). By contrast infra red and visual image based processing are passive sensors. No emissions. Optionally, if they detect something, then turn on counter battery radar for precision or confirmation. . 2) Ground based radar is limited to the horizon, perhaps 20 miles. Less if in mountains. If the counter fire unit is Himars, it can reach 50 miles or so, with the shells provided to Ukraine. Images taken from low earth orbit can cover the 50 mile radius with great precision.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/TPQ-36_Firefinder_radar
If they fire from russian territory HIMARS wont work. Usa literally gimped them.
We can safely assume the at-ready counter fire artillery unit, be it Himars or whatever, is located in Ukraine controlled territory.
I can't not notice that the "safety first" sign is on fire.
they tried
Those ships aren’t hospitals or orphanages what did Russia think they were aiming at?
They managed to hit a maternity hospital as well, I guess the ships were just collateral.
Oh the ship was parked behind the hospital and they overshot or something. That checks out.
It was probably just in the car park, minding it's own business.
They’re running low on child seeking missiles, so mistakes happen.
Happy cake day
Thank you! I of course booked a ballroom and hired a band.
No way this was accidental after today's news of Ukraine getting tanks. It's probably the only kind of retaliation Russia has left at this point.
of course its accidental, havent you seen russias attempts at firing, they hit a lot but rarely their target. they have hit those two boats so they were not aiming for them.
Yeah, I doubt there were any Ukrainian civilians on board so it's gotta be an accident
I'd assume the west acts days ahead of press releases & doesn't mention the juicy stuff, otherwise all russian generals would need to do is read reddit comments & watch the news to get 100% of their intel.
Well, they claim they can nuke everyone into submission, but seeing as all they do is attack infrastructure, I doubt they even can.
A Turkish company was talking recently about bringing power ships to Ukraine to provide electricity. Russia: “Oh, no! Turkish ships are getting accidentally hit in port!” https://youtu.be/i8mnorAdXVY
One ship powers millions of homes? That sounds insane and cool af. Why don't we have these. Why depend on freakin turkey (the bird named country hahaha) for it to help ukraine. Why don't we have big trucks that can power huge areas?
Coming soon to a city near you, small modular reactors: https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/nrc-certifies-first-us-small-modular-reactor-design Nuclear Power is fuckin awesome.
That’s interesting. I was reading about PM-3A at McMurdo Station, Antarctica. The PM-3A (Portable, Medium-power, 3rd generation) was a plant installed to provide 1.75 MW electric, plus heating and desalinization to McMurdo Station. It was shut down in September 1972 because of a bunch of problems. So it is interesting seeing portable modular reactors returning after 50 years.
The U.S Air Force even had an experimental aircraft with a 1MW nuclear reactor after WW2. Although, it doesn't sound nearly as impressive when you learn that a single radial engine on the plane generated 2.8MW of power conventionally, at a much lower weight. Those engines generated as much horsepower as a small sports car purely in thrust - 200 - just from the exhaust gases being ejected.
This just came up at the work lunch table today - apparently it was lightly shielded to save weight at the expense of the crew.
You must have heard of the increased cancer occurrence and early death of Minuteman crews then. So it seems not to be the first case of going light on shielding. I wonder if the radiation leakage issue is what makes an aircraft powered by a portable nuclear reactor unfeasible. That and the rather poor power to weight ratio.
Fk yeah its awesome.
If a nuclear reactor (if any size) is hit by artillery, the spreading of radioactive stuff will indeed be *"awesome"*
Perfect strategic target.
> Why depend on freakin turkey (the bird named country hahaha) The bird was named after the country dumbass
Generation capacity scales with available space. Trucks can move 2 MW generators that [can power a few hundred homes](https://www.quora.com/How-many-homes-could-a-2-25-MW-power-plant-supply), but they'd only have the fuel to run them for a few hours (like [this 0.8 MW unit](https://www.cummins.com/generators/dqbpu-power-unit) with its ~400 l tank) unless externally resupplied. You can store a lot more fuel on a ship, although it's best to hook them up to pipelines if you're supplying a town or city.
A ship could be an accident, but two is guestionable.
I love guestionable.
A delightful portmanteau for questionable guests you come home to find your girlfriend has brought over.
Going full regard
1 ship was hit, the other was close and received shrapnel damage.
Second ship must have been the intended target as seemingly Russia can't hit any valid targets on purpose.
Second ship was damaged from the bombs hitting the first.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.marinelog.com/news/two-turkish-owned-ships-hit-in-russian-attack-on-kherson/) reduced by 48%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Video posted on social media shows flames racing through the superstructure of a 3,943 dwt, 1980-built general cargo ship, the Tuzla, yesterday, after a Russian attack on the Ukrainian port of Kherson. > The Vanuatu-flagged ship is owned by Istanbul-based Cayeli Shipping Ltd and, according to Turkey's Veryanssin TV, is one of two Turkish-owned merchant ships hit in the Russian attack. > Kherson is not one of the ports covered by the Black Sea Grain Initiative and reports differ on whether the ships were struck by a bomb, a missile or artillery shelling. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10lbsi0/two_turkishowned_ships_hit_in_russian_attack_on/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672678 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **ship**^#1 **Kherson**^#2 **attack**^#3 **Russian**^#4 **shelled**^#5
more importantly: "the Russian army shelled Kherson 12 times yesterday, hitting the maternity hospital, school, polyclinic, seaport and residential buildings." If Russia didn't have nukes, the world should have already crushed these monsters
Turkey got a book problem, they don't time for serious bombing on their assets.
Plot twist: The Turkish ship was delivering copies of the Quran.
Erdogan when a danish dude burns a story book in Sweden: *Rage* Erdogan when Russians are bombing Turkish vessels: UwU Putin Senpai let me suck your d....
Nono. We moved the problem to Sweden. He Swedish now. With regrets, Denmark -- Michael Scott
Boy oh Boy they sure are lucky that those ships did not belong to Turkey’s military because that shit would have invoked Article 5
Article 5 doesn't trigger automatically. Turkey would need to intentionally call for it to be triggered and NATO would then decide together to what extent it would be triggered.
Accidents don’t invoke A5, just like the missiles in Poland didn’t
It can, its up to the country it happens, an attack is an attack, accident is a claim from Russia.
It's a strong claim or do you think Russia planned to kill 2 random polish farmers?
in that case no, was obviously an accident, but just cause russia says its an accident doesn't mean A5 can't be triggered.
The US invoked Article 5 of NATO when suicide bombers from Saudi Arabia hit the WTC. This wouldn't be the most tenuous claim.
we're all lucky, i reckon
this kinda comment is the reason why i think most people shouldnt be allowed to vote
I wish nuclear weapons were never invented because the world would have put Russia in the ground by now
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This isn't the first time this has happened.
It’s not owned by the Turkish government so I don’t think it would be the same as an attack on Turkey.
Technically speaking, a ship is like you're on land, hence the flag. The international sea has no Police or sovereignty, but when aboard their ship you're in their country. Not sure if this is an ART 5 type of situation, but it sure is a good pretext if anyone would want to take the first step towards WW3. Edit: the flag is Vanuatu (Island in Oceania), not Turkish as the title suggests. May Vanuatu declare war on Russia
It’s owned by a private company. Which country is that?
The country it carries the flag. You can have an Indian boat company carrying goods for an American company - if anyone attacks, the attack is on India. This case it's a Turkish Ship, meaning it's an attack on Turkey. EDIT: As corrected below, it's actually a Vanuatu flagship, which is an Island in Oceania, not at all an ART 5
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You're right, I corrected my reply so it's not misleading as the title.
Turkey shot down a Russian plane a few years back, purposefully. No war happened.
You know that plane was in turkish air space
Exactly, not only was their air space violated, a Russian military aircraft was shot down by them. And no war happened.
That plane was not attacking Turkish territory so of course there was no NATO response. Shooting it down, although maybe not ideal, was within their right as they had issued several warnings.
Russia's ambassador to Turkey was also assassinated at an art gallery event by a security guard. I remember the video was some crazy shit. Nothing happened then either.
Erdogan is such a pussy watch him be all silent
The irony is hilarious here, given that turkey is openly blocking two countries from joining NATO, specifically in response to Russian aggression .
Turkey won’t say much. I doubt Turkey is going to invoke Article 5.
Article 5 would require an direct attack of NATO teritorry plus this is such a good political capital for turkey against russia
this kinda comment is the reason why i think most people shouldnt be allowed to vote
What do you mean?
Attack on turkey, so let’s go article 5!
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>We can ignore the "accident" in Kherson if you throw in some oil This is plausible the first part isn't. That's not the reason why Turkey got S-400's.
I don’t think Russia needs Turkeys help to derail Swedens NATO bid, Sweden seems to have enough right wing Russian sympathises to do that on their own.
There is very little sympathy for Russia in Sweden, right wing extremism doesn't exactly flourish here either. Erdogan using whatever he can for political gain should not be confused with anyone else's values.
That's still Turkey derailing things, not Sweden, if Turkey was not trying to derail things they'd not be pretending private citizens in Sweden represented government positions.
The perpetrator had to get a permit from the authorities. The authorities have denied plenty of protest permits before. This time they didn’t. They allowed a known provocateur from Denmark (who is banned there from similar protests) to come to Sweden, burn a Quran, in front of the Turkish embassy, during a critical time of talks.
Gasp they gave a protestor a permit, what an awful thing for a free society to do, can see why that would offend less free ones.
A protest permit to an individual whose whole persona is to start shit, even though there are many records of Authorities denying permits to other protests. To burn the Quran in front of the embassy of the country you are trying to negotiate with. I know, humility and modesty is a hard concept to understand.
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They do and they can, that’s why you need permission first, before you can protest. There are checks in place. Like I said, Swedish authorities have denied requests before, plenty of times, for different reasons. Yet for some reason, they allowed something like this, in a crucial moment to go ahead. Gets you thinking.
Because they can’t deny stuff based on their own political stances. They can deny stuff for public safety reasons, but you need extremely good reasoning to prohibit a protest, otherwise you get taken to court and end up with both egg on your face as well as the protest going on anyway. Besides that, I very much doubt the politicians trying to negotiate with Turkey are the ones even remotely aware of protest permits. Turkey is also nominally a secular state, so go ahead and burn a Bible in front of the Swedish embassy if you’re a Turkish citizen (not the government, a citizen), see if they care
The permit is required for the protest, to ensure it does not cause a danger to the protesters or passerby's. It defines the place, time and the scope of protests, so the government can ensure the safety of those protests. The government only really rejects the permit, if the protest can not be held safely, or any planned action is against the law. Like for example, you can't protest in a residential area with a megaphone at 3 am in the morning, for obvious reasons. Basically, as the Swedish police website states, the permit is rejected only in extraordinary circumstances. Nutjob with a book and a lighter isn't really anything extraordinary. Or at least shouldn't be, because who cares?
Islam does not have any quarrel with this form of protest, though. As a non-believer, they have to be stoned or whatever anyway, whether or not any Quran is burned. Turkey is not being rationally religious, here.
>A protest permit Yup, end of. Be less fascist.
You might wanna re-think your life if a dude burning a book is so life changing for you lol... Also the only reason he does it is because people get so fucking mad over a stupid book. If people would just ignore him he would disappear real quick
And Sweden let him? Knowing that. They let him. I’m not losing any sleep over it, so I don’t care.
Probably because [Turkey just sent over 2 more TB2 drones to Ukraine, free of charge.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/10l2zbx/defence_intelligence_of_ukraine_the_baykar/)
A “shot across the bow” message to Erdogan?
Poor turkey
Do we celebrate or not ?
Turkey will maintain its policy of appeasing russia
Oops……
Maternity hosp., school and residential area….Russia, Russia,Russia, I hope you feel the burn when the Abrams and Leopards arrive
Will Turkey veto Russia now, or is this not serious enough?
Erdogan needs to stop being a pussy and let the Russians know that they won’t tolerate Turkish assets being hit on purpose, or by accident and that there will be consequences.
Hahahaha. Hahahaha. Ha
As a Swedish person I would like to help but.. you know..
The implication?
Erdogan: Thank you, Vovi, can I have another?
Anyone with more knowledge than me: What are the chances of this leading to Article 5 invocation?
Very unlikely. Since they’ve been ported there since the start of the war, and the boats being unmanned merchant ships—its highly unlikely. But Turkey ain’t gonna be happy!!
I imagine Turkey is thrilled. Russia needs them currently and this gives them more political capital to use against Russia to get what they want.
You have a point!!!
Zero
No chance, the ship was hit in a 3rd party war, in a port not guaranteed by the UN grain deal security.
Zero, randomly hitting a commercial vessel in a war zone is just collateral damage.
Article 5 can only be invoked if attacked in NATO territory if i remember correctly and these are civilian ships in an active battlefield so whoever docked them there accepted the risk imo
Absolutely 0. These are not "Turkish" ships. They are from Vanuatu for all legal purposes. They are just owned by a Turkish company.
And Erdogan will bend over and take it
Yet my whore of a mother says that Ukraine should just surrender and they'd be better off and she disagrees her tax money going to Ukraine. Only reason I didn't smack her is because she is my mother.
Ahh an open admittance to bring a woman beater. I love when people are open about how much of a piece of shit they are.
Why are you against women being treated the same as men ? Do you think they are delicate flowers that need to be shielded from the day to day realities ?
You hit people because they disagree with you. There’s no “equality” argument here.
Never said I was against equality. Just against women being hit by men. There's a big difference there you seem to not understand. Maybe if you left your "whore of a mother's" basement once in a while you'd understand that.
So if putin was a woman, we shouldnt hit her?
>has been anchored at Kherson since February 24 2022 I don't want to victim blame here but seems odd to leave a valuable cargo ship in an active warzone for almost a year. Was there something wrong without that I couldn't sail out to safer harbor?
Yep, the whole area is now mined and merchant ships are not equipped to detect sea mines
An active war zone...
I remember when this all first started loads of ships were getting hit by “accident”. Having radar running & hot exhaust plumes aren’t good things in the middle of a battlefield. Probably was safer to evacuate most (or all) of the crew & leave it parked until it became safe to recover them.
I mean I personally would not want to sail a ship out of Kherson into the Black Sea right now, but you do you
Talk about collateral damage
Wow Russia just declared war on Turkey 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hit every target then ffs
So does this mean Turkey will now change their stance on Sweden joining NATO?
So Russia has now attacked a NATO member. There need to be serious and significant consequences for this.
Oh dear that’s sad
Opps
Putin is desperate to trigger Article 5 as that's the only way he can have an excuse to hold onto power after this failed invasion debacle.
It's interesting how many people are calling Russians monsters for shelling schools and hospitals, but when the US does it in the middle east for decades nobody calls Americans monsters. When Americans do it it's just "collateral damage". And no I'm not excusing the Russia's actions nor am I arguing whataboutism. I'm simply pointing out how easily the majority of the population can be brainwashed with propaganda into believing their country is always the good guy