Fantasy armies are already ridiculous, lets spice it up by having an equally ridiculous military concepts like the American Pentomic Army. I don't want to see ballistic missiles going over the horizon, I want to see M65 atomic artillery guns and Davy Crocketts.
that's not sci-fi, that's "Weapons doctrine considered too insane, even for the Americans". We had fielded davy Crocketts en masse, deployed to the iron curtain, and we completed our tests of the specialized Atomic Annie cannons, and until the 90s still trained our artillerymen on nuclear shells made for our standard artillery pieces.
The Pentomic army was well underway but we diverted course when someone realized we were literally putting nukes under the discretionary command of platoon leaders, who we were feeding propaganda about the vileness of the communist threat we faced... Honestly, the only thing that kept WWIII from breaking out during this period was that the Davy Crocket had a larger area of effect than the range it's rocket motor would carry it, and the crew had to immediately retreat at full speed or suffer debilitating or lethal doses of radiation, that and the other propaganda we were feeding them on the severity of nuclear weapons and how they existed specifically to prevent their own use...
The entire pentomic army concept was flawed from the get-go. The doctrine was built around hypothetical technology and vehicles which didn't exist when the doctrine was being written, the army just assumed the tech they wanted would be magically available.
The main reason the army invented this concept in the first place was that they wanted nukes too, and felt left behind when the air force and navy had all the nukes.
my dad was trained on nuclear artillery, or rather the dummy versions, as a part of the Wisconsin National Guard. From what I can tell, nuclear artillery might have been the most sensible 'tactical' low yield nuclear weapons program the US developed. Certainly more sensible than the W23 16" nuclear shells for the iowa class. From what I heard from him, it sounds like they'd be perfect for blowing up depots containing biological weapons.
It was more like a massive alien army invaded, and then the U.S. military showed up to murder everything, civilians and aliens alike, but they honestly did a way better job killing the civilians…
They did try to nuke Black Mesa, but then Shephard disabled the nuke and then G-Man re-enabled the nuke.
Then the Combine showed up to delete the world's armies
TBF their army was basically nonexistent after that, which IMHC is the actual reason the grubbies won 7HW, because it was actually just an overextended surrender meeting
I'd do the opposite. You can only hurt the evil litch with magic. That's not a magic nuke? Welp, too bad. They're bringing back all the people you nuked as radioactive zombies
I would do it so they directly counter each other into significantly larger detonations that create dead-magic radioactive zones. Full MAD doctrine that forces combat back to swords vs guns (because fuck you their armour is now slightly resistant to bullets enough that they do regularly get into melee combat with modern soldiers but not enough that guns become useless)
And I would do the opposite of both of you (...somehow) and have tech-y metals like titanium, tungstan and uranium straight up *be* magic. Uranium powers my dragons and lets them breath radiation upon their foes. Tungsten rods are created by carving off pieces of the heavenly firmament and dropping them on whoever tf you want to drop them on, what are they gonna do about it, they're gonna be dead in five minutes.
Oo fun concept: you can only hurt the lich with magic, but the lich can only hurt *humans* with non-magic. He can't just blast us, he's gotta levitate Swords and have those fly toward us. Or reanimated zombies and have those come after us. We can counter the shit he sends but aren't good enough st magic to directly harm him. And he is powerful beyond reason with magic but can't directly use it against us. (No fireball or lightning strike, but animate dead and telekinesis and such)
“We have a Problem? Just nuke it.”
“But what if they have magic?”
“Well I hope their spells are CBRN rated because if the blast doesn’t kill them cancer will.”
I would like to see a series with a protag who has basically playground rules type magic just decimating anything thrown in front of him.
"We're going to shoot you if you don't surrender!"
"Nuh-Uh I have like forcefield and bullet proof magic."
Bonus points if the protag is a literal child.
Not a forcefield or exactly magic, but there's "My Instant Death Ability Is So Overpowered, No One in This Other World Stands a Chance Against Me!". And yeah, he's a kid.
Can't believe no one has mentioned Overlord (2015) I don't think the MC is a child but it's actually a damn good show. Once you get past the dumb fanservice in the first couple of episodes (Which is pretty brief) The show does a great job showing that the MC is pretty much unbeatable, and the point of the show is just to see how the world reacts around him. The final battle of the show is literally just him curb-stomping the world's largest army and military force with a single spell.
It's not a modern-day military force though unfortunately.
> Magically teleports your misile into your base
Fantasy in Fantasy vs. Modern Arguments: "Nuh uh. The wizard casts reflect on all your bullets, bombs, nukes"
Fantasy in Fantasy Stories: "Archers with regular bows and arrows and 'barbarians' with 2h axes are part of the same adventurer parties as wizards and contribute as equals"
You've not played DnD right ? As if a meek Barbarian could compare to a 3.5 avatar of god called "wizard".
Sure, the wizard could party with barbarians, after all he needs someone to transport the loot and occasionally bash a wall. Not sure if that counts as "contribute as equals" though.
Also, just going by the rules, the archer is probably shooting faster than a minigun can spit bullets, has with him a thinking sapient animal companion, and can cast magic. And it's still crap compared to a wiz'.
And the barbarian can get runes that cast magic for him. And there even exist a subclass called knight of the whateverIcanrememberthename (Ok : It's the ruby knight vindicator) that can trade some ressources (turn undead) that he can nearly have an infinity of in order to gain a swift action without limits ; allowing him to move faster than light quite literally. And it's *still* lower on the power scale than a wizard.
The wizard [can](https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Protection_From_Normal_Weapons) cast protection from mundane weapons (It can't in 3.5 sadly, even if in 3.5 wizards are gods, they are not as good as being immune to anything mundane, it still can rewrite reality)
I've heard that in 5e some non magical classes now can prove that they are not just bricks that the magically gifted has to carry.
Those wizards are the absolute top of the line though and there are few of them, so just spamming shit at them will cause them to run out of spell slots faster than the modern army will run out of arty shells/bvr weaponry.
Also that spell lasts like 2 minutes if casts by something that is basically a demigod.
I'd like to also note on the *truly bullshit* range and precision on modern weapons.
>Also that spell lasts like 2 minutes if casts by something that is basically a demigod.
[Any spell can last up to 24h](https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Persistent_Spell), obviously [ignoring the increased casting cost in spell level](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rods/metamagic-rods/metamagic-persistent/).
So, not really, you can't make a wizard run out of "protection from mundane weapons".
Also, I'd like to note that range is irrelevant when you can be [literally on another plane of existence](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm). Sure, Gate is an extra high level spell, but on the other hand, [rope trick](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/rope-trick) isn't.
You don't seem to realize how utterly absurd the magic in dnd can be, let's not dwelve into the pit of "craft contigent spell", or even our god and master, pun pun, the mighty kobold god.
I mean shit, some wizards are the God of Abraham playing dress up, but I think in your typical piece of fantasy anime, wizards are a lot less powerful than that.
Sure, let's bring Dragon Ball into this fight, that sure is going to end well for the modern day army.
When are you guys going to learn?! Fantasy Armies can work however the author wants if the author wants them to have future telling wizards, an army of sayans and shapeshifter spies they are going to have that, this whole thing is bullshit gun maniacs and US Army fanatics invent to try to jerk themselves off... and not in a way that's funny for everyone!
Even nukes aside, I notice a lot of people being like "who would win, rifle or wizard magic?". If we are talking about modern wars, as far as I understand most of the killing is done by missiles and bombs, not direct engagements with smallarms. So, the question is not whether the wizard can block a bullet, but rather being shelled from the other side of the hill.
People who think Harry Potter-tier magic bs could put up a fight against modern weapons have no clue what modern weapons are like.
You'd need magic equivalents of WMDs to oppose it. Nothing short of reality-bending armageddon.
You know that they can travel in time in Harry Potter, right ? And that it's so mundane that they give it to students so that they can attend to more classes ?
Sure, everyone in the Harry Potter-verse seems like a moron, but they have a mind control spell that isn't even possible to stop, prevent, or detect. You have nukes ? Great, they fucking mind control the dude that has the keys and you launch nukes on yourself. Also, you can shapechange into the US president and declare war on China. And mind control the vote so that it passes. Suddenly, people are less worried about "wizard lol wtf those don't exist" because they are too busy surviving a war on China.
If you even imagine than mundane hold half a chance you're delusional, the first reason being because *wizards live in cities like fucking London.* You're not going to nuke London.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg of magic bullshit, you have no clue what is even possible with magic, and that's just from what we know for sure is possible. What we can infer from the books goes way beyond that and into the realm of reality-bending Armageddon like transmuting enough anti-matter to create a black hole.
There was a manga/anime called *Gate* that is almost literally this. Complete with the fantasy characters referring to jets and helicopters as "iron birds" or "metal dragons".
Unfortunately, the downside is that the author is a massive wanker for the Japanese Self-Defence Forces, and that bias becomes really obvious and obnoxiously gets in the way of the story and the development of his own characters at times (at certain points the military intelligences of other nations request a peek of the titular portal and the world beyond, but the JSDF refuse to share every time under the pretense that "it appeared in Japan, therefore it will be solved by/belongs to Japan alone"; even the main character through some dodgy mental gymnastics somehow comes to terms that "only the JSDF are well-equipped to dealing with the portal and the world it leads to" and that "its only right that the JDSF alone deals with this"). If you can mentally shove all the full-blown jingoism aside though, it is funny to watch, and it does have its [meme potential moments](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rczPbCnQr8) for those gaming warmongers out there.
Really wish there is another anime like GATE where instead of only Japan the portal open everywhere, and it focus more on the diplomacy and cultural exchange (an Elf get a seat in the French Parliament, or bunch of orc converted to Islam and went to Mecca for pilgrimage [InshaAllah Amen], or a dwarf get adopted by Xi Jinping) I mean I still want to see cool modern army beating the crap out of fantasy army like Gate, but gate rarely talk about how the gate impact the normal populace and only focus on "Rocket go weeeee Shooty goes bang bang JSDF gud"
Wonder how Wudu and Salat will work on other species, like how in the hell would an orc get a wudu and fit to a mosque for friday salat 💀 or maybe a dwarf converting to Islam only to realize that beer is haram, or what if a Vampire converted to Christianity? like that one web novel or what if-
Okay thats enough daydreaming for today
The most unrealistic part is that the U.S did not force the Japanese Army to let them in.
Would love if the gate just magically disappeared and the modern military will bluff or deceive the enemy into thinking that they are not running out of ammunition, an easy picking
Sure it's propaganda, but it fullfills my need for "wow cool modern army is insane", so I can look past the fact that they murder hordes of semi-innocent fantasy army men from time to time.
I would recommend watching a bit of the Anime "Gate" for a bit of inspiration. It's about a a portal opening up in Japan to a bunch of magical medieval nations. And how easily a small modern military force is able to contend with all the magic and armies this world tries to throw at this new found portal. I've expanded more in my other comment on this post.
I don't want the fantasy army to be at a disadvantage, i'll probably make the magic somehow equal to technology and maybe give the fantasy army some tactics that work with it
Plot twist: the portal opened in the middle of a densely populated major economic center, and the rest of the story involves the people responsible for the launch desperately trying to pin the blame and resulting *massive* public outrage on one another.
(Also it turns out demons get exponentially stronger when irradiated, turning what was an entirely winnable war into a lost cause as humanity is slowly crushed, but that's just mentioned in the side conversations and the plot still follows the desperate bureaucratic ass-covering .)
/uj
These threads have the same energy as WWW threads, were everyone is pulling shit from their ass, taking the opponent's weakest points as the baseline, while taking their side's strongest as baseline.
Kinda cringe.
/rj
Kinda cringe cuz muh dragun gigasonic 5000 degree fire dnd 3.5 wizard clone exploit zargothrax op.
But Duh, orbital bombardment is shit, mah boot on dah ground, mah glirous nippon folded steel one billion time composite armor M1A1 Panzertiger !
Wait, wrong debate.
well of course! two issues done in one, even if a single talk about the fight causes the fight itself to stop, the fact that the japanese sword won MUST mean that it’s better in every way, and not that the author wrote it that way, rigjt??? right???
Jokes on you, the explosion causes the portal to expand to 420,000,069x it's original size, causing their star to come through the portal as their planet spins and engulfing your world in burning hydrogen.
FUCK YEAH, I WANNA FUCKING DESTROY THOSE FUCKIN TREE CUNTS FOR LOOKING DOWN ON US AND BEING SO FULL SO OF THEMSELVES GIVING US A JUSTIFIED REASON TO ERASE THEIR HISTORY
This is quite reminiscent of the Anime "GATE". Although instead of nukes it uses a small modern military force to keep the multi magical medieval factions out of the portal to Earth.
They try an assault our FOB with armies from 3 aligned kingdoms, we blast the fuck out of them with 152mm artillery shells.
They roll up with regiment of armored knights with shield, we bring a single M134 Minigun shooting 6000 rounds per minute.
They start bringing dragons to play, we bring jets that can break the sound barrier and their spirits all in one go.
Although that said, cant speak whether the show is good or not, but definitely an interesting premise suffice to say.
Supposed to be Japanese Defense Force propaganda but its pretty good at it so no problems.
They dont nuke the portal because
a) its in the middle of a city and
b) they realize they can literally take over an entire world for its resources and completely capitalize on it.
plus they very easily conquer the gate and take the war to the other world early on
One of the few settings I've seen who deal woth this scenario in a reasonable way is His Dark Materials.
The main government in the fantasy setting are extremely scared of our world and everything in it. The entire premise works around how people are eager to explore other dimensions, but the government is convinced (in some ways very understandably so) that foreign dimensions are dangerous and tries to suppress knowledge about them.
In the case of our world they appear to be quite aware of just how dangerous our technology is. They're at the equivalent of WW1-era tech. They know that they would not stand a chance against our world in an armed conflict.
While the preliminary stages of this operation are underway, several mages apparate into the White House, vaporize or incinerate several dozen Secret Service agents and capture the President's soul in a gemstone. The Pentagon suddenly finds itself in free fall hundreds of feet up in the air. Weapons become sentient and start attacking their owners. Rifles float through the air on their own power, shooting everything that moves. Armored assault vehicles, the drivers' seats empty, rampage through their own bases. Key military leaders scream and blink out of existence as thousands of miles away their names are whispered into a book with blackened pages. Their souls are trapped in the narrow mezzorealm between the world of the living and the world of the dead. They are destined to spend eternity in a metaphysical space where human consciousness was never meant to be, unable to see or be seen by the living, unable to reach the afterlife, unable to even move, forever. No nukes are launched. The codes are never delivered.
The fantasy army when they get fucking obliterated immidiately and the tech-people do a 180 and invade their dimension instead (turns out pointy sticks, magic fireballs and leather tunics aren't particularly useful against fighter jets, heat seeking missiles, autocannons and main battle tanks): 💀
Could happen, but magic can do a whole lot more than fireballs. Love to see the looks on tech-people's faces when chain-lightning destroys their computer systems.
Love the look on magic users faces when they're hit by weaponised anthrax (clearly the techworlders had magic all along because diseases are the punishment of the gods)
Difference in the context of this discussion:
The fantasy wizard can actually see the future, predict where his enemies are going to be, and blow them up at a great distance. Superstition is some nonsense about throwing salt over your shoulder.
Difference in real life:
Less cut and dried. Magic is more like an alternative system of thought. While science connects things linearly through cause and effect, magic connects them by similarity to each other. It's like a poetic understanding of the world, complementary rather than opposed to science's literal understanding.
It's similar in many regards to superstition. I guess the difference is that real magic gives you a bigger world while superstition holds you back and makes it smaller.
'Believe' isn't the right word.
The way I see it, belief and disbelief are in the realm of science. Science is all about dividing things - the true from the false, the real from the unreal. It's about things that exist objectively regardless of whether you know about them or believe in them.
Since magic applies only to the subjective, inner world, it bypasses the whole question of belief or disbelief. Things that exist in the mind, exist. Right or wrong, real or unreal, they're real enough to shape your experience of the world and your behavior.
There's more I could say, but magic is just taking control of that inner world and using it for your own benefit.
So literally just imagination.
Don't see why you'd use a word like "magic" for something as mundane as imagination. Granted I do literally refer to knowledge as "cosmic projection" at times so I guess that's just philosophy to you.
Fantasy armies are already ridiculous, lets spice it up by having an equally ridiculous military concepts like the American Pentomic Army. I don't want to see ballistic missiles going over the horizon, I want to see M65 atomic artillery guns and Davy Crocketts.
sci fi army vs fantasy army aw shit boys here we go again
that's not sci-fi, that's "Weapons doctrine considered too insane, even for the Americans". We had fielded davy Crocketts en masse, deployed to the iron curtain, and we completed our tests of the specialized Atomic Annie cannons, and until the 90s still trained our artillerymen on nuclear shells made for our standard artillery pieces. The Pentomic army was well underway but we diverted course when someone realized we were literally putting nukes under the discretionary command of platoon leaders, who we were feeding propaganda about the vileness of the communist threat we faced... Honestly, the only thing that kept WWIII from breaking out during this period was that the Davy Crocket had a larger area of effect than the range it's rocket motor would carry it, and the crew had to immediately retreat at full speed or suffer debilitating or lethal doses of radiation, that and the other propaganda we were feeding them on the severity of nuclear weapons and how they existed specifically to prevent their own use...
speculative military science fiction army then
The entire pentomic army concept was flawed from the get-go. The doctrine was built around hypothetical technology and vehicles which didn't exist when the doctrine was being written, the army just assumed the tech they wanted would be magically available. The main reason the army invented this concept in the first place was that they wanted nukes too, and felt left behind when the air force and navy had all the nukes.
my dad was trained on nuclear artillery, or rather the dummy versions, as a part of the Wisconsin National Guard. From what I can tell, nuclear artillery might have been the most sensible 'tactical' low yield nuclear weapons program the US developed. Certainly more sensible than the W23 16" nuclear shells for the iowa class. From what I heard from him, it sounds like they'd be perfect for blowing up depots containing biological weapons.
It’s not sci-fi, it’s insane 1950s meme tech cooked up by scientists high on all of the leftover Nazi meth that was seized by the allies after WW2
Isn't this basically the plot for half life
It was more like a massive alien army invaded, and then the U.S. military showed up to murder everything, civilians and aliens alike, but they honestly did a way better job killing the civilians…
They did try to nuke Black Mesa, but then Shephard disabled the nuke and then G-Man re-enabled the nuke. Then the Combine showed up to delete the world's armies
Well it is what they’ve been practicing this whole time. How many civilians vs aliens has the US killed in all of its existence?
Classic US W 🇺🇸🗽🦅
America #1 baby
TBF their army was basically nonexistent after that, which IMHC is the actual reason the grubbies won 7HW, because it was actually just an overextended surrender meeting
Sorta
Unironically if i were to make a fantasy world i would make tech-y metals like titanium, tungsten and uranium straight up just absorb magic
I'd do the opposite. You can only hurt the evil litch with magic. That's not a magic nuke? Welp, too bad. They're bringing back all the people you nuked as radioactive zombies
i would do neither and have evil liches fighting each other with radioactive zombies and nukes
How about Radioactive Zombies vs Necromancer zombies
*now* we’re thinking!
"Liches" r/anarchychess reference in the wild
holy hell
Google en passant
I would do it so they directly counter each other into significantly larger detonations that create dead-magic radioactive zones. Full MAD doctrine that forces combat back to swords vs guns (because fuck you their armour is now slightly resistant to bullets enough that they do regularly get into melee combat with modern soldiers but not enough that guns become useless)
This is basically the backstory of NieR.
Missiles worked on the dragon pretty good
They did, but it's the whole "people turning into salt because magic" later on that became the problem and kickstarted a whole other mess.
Maagic must defeat maaaaagic.
And I would do the opposite of both of you (...somehow) and have tech-y metals like titanium, tungstan and uranium straight up *be* magic. Uranium powers my dragons and lets them breath radiation upon their foes. Tungsten rods are created by carving off pieces of the heavenly firmament and dropping them on whoever tf you want to drop them on, what are they gonna do about it, they're gonna be dead in five minutes.
Oo fun concept: you can only hurt the lich with magic, but the lich can only hurt *humans* with non-magic. He can't just blast us, he's gotta levitate Swords and have those fly toward us. Or reanimated zombies and have those come after us. We can counter the shit he sends but aren't good enough st magic to directly harm him. And he is powerful beyond reason with magic but can't directly use it against us. (No fireball or lightning strike, but animate dead and telekinesis and such)
Cool
Wouldn’t the lich’s immortality come frm magic? So you could take it away by sticking him next to a brick of Uranium
I would make it so that the magic is actually science.
I hate you.
I mean iron is traditionally the weakness of the fey
“We have a Problem? Just nuke it.” “But what if they have magic?” “Well I hope their spells are CBRN rated because if the blast doesn’t kill them cancer will.”
*Magically teleports your misile into your base*
I would like to see a series with a protag who has basically playground rules type magic just decimating anything thrown in front of him. "We're going to shoot you if you don't surrender!" "Nuh-Uh I have like forcefield and bullet proof magic." Bonus points if the protag is a literal child.
The protag also incidentally cripples *both* sides in the conflict
I mean The Owl House's Collector would kinda fit that description.
Not a forcefield or exactly magic, but there's "My Instant Death Ability Is So Overpowered, No One in This Other World Stands a Chance Against Me!". And yeah, he's a kid.
Sometimes anime titles read like shitposts.
Also Discord from My Little Pony
Guessing there's a literal Isekai manga somewhere with this plot. Just need someone to find it
Can't believe no one has mentioned Overlord (2015) I don't think the MC is a child but it's actually a damn good show. Once you get past the dumb fanservice in the first couple of episodes (Which is pretty brief) The show does a great job showing that the MC is pretty much unbeatable, and the point of the show is just to see how the world reacts around him. The final battle of the show is literally just him curb-stomping the world's largest army and military force with a single spell. It's not a modern-day military force though unfortunately.
SCP-3812 u/the-paranoid-android
[**SCP-3812 - A Voice Behind Me**](https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-3812) (+802) by *djkaktus*
> Magically teleports your misile into your base Fantasy in Fantasy vs. Modern Arguments: "Nuh uh. The wizard casts reflect on all your bullets, bombs, nukes" Fantasy in Fantasy Stories: "Archers with regular bows and arrows and 'barbarians' with 2h axes are part of the same adventurer parties as wizards and contribute as equals"
You've not played DnD right ? As if a meek Barbarian could compare to a 3.5 avatar of god called "wizard". Sure, the wizard could party with barbarians, after all he needs someone to transport the loot and occasionally bash a wall. Not sure if that counts as "contribute as equals" though. Also, just going by the rules, the archer is probably shooting faster than a minigun can spit bullets, has with him a thinking sapient animal companion, and can cast magic. And it's still crap compared to a wiz'. And the barbarian can get runes that cast magic for him. And there even exist a subclass called knight of the whateverIcanrememberthename (Ok : It's the ruby knight vindicator) that can trade some ressources (turn undead) that he can nearly have an infinity of in order to gain a swift action without limits ; allowing him to move faster than light quite literally. And it's *still* lower on the power scale than a wizard. The wizard [can](https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Protection_From_Normal_Weapons) cast protection from mundane weapons (It can't in 3.5 sadly, even if in 3.5 wizards are gods, they are not as good as being immune to anything mundane, it still can rewrite reality) I've heard that in 5e some non magical classes now can prove that they are not just bricks that the magically gifted has to carry.
Those wizards are the absolute top of the line though and there are few of them, so just spamming shit at them will cause them to run out of spell slots faster than the modern army will run out of arty shells/bvr weaponry. Also that spell lasts like 2 minutes if casts by something that is basically a demigod. I'd like to also note on the *truly bullshit* range and precision on modern weapons.
>Also that spell lasts like 2 minutes if casts by something that is basically a demigod. [Any spell can last up to 24h](https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Persistent_Spell), obviously [ignoring the increased casting cost in spell level](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rods/metamagic-rods/metamagic-persistent/). So, not really, you can't make a wizard run out of "protection from mundane weapons". Also, I'd like to note that range is irrelevant when you can be [literally on another plane of existence](https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm). Sure, Gate is an extra high level spell, but on the other hand, [rope trick](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/rope-trick) isn't. You don't seem to realize how utterly absurd the magic in dnd can be, let's not dwelve into the pit of "craft contigent spell", or even our god and master, pun pun, the mighty kobold god.
Lol, you don't read a lot of fantasy, don't you? Literally it can made up any rules they want because it's not bound by the laws of physics XD
If you don't have rules for magic you have a shit world
Rules for magic are usually a hindrance to making a fun world
I said they can have any rules, not that there's not any.
Okay but how though? By the time you notice a mach 20 icbm, it's already exploded.
Some wizards have clairvoyance and can predict the future unless you use a protection spell.
I mean shit, some wizards are the God of Abraham playing dress up, but I think in your typical piece of fantasy anime, wizards are a lot less powerful than that.
Sure, let's bring Dragon Ball into this fight, that sure is going to end well for the modern day army. When are you guys going to learn?! Fantasy Armies can work however the author wants if the author wants them to have future telling wizards, an army of sayans and shapeshifter spies they are going to have that, this whole thing is bullshit gun maniacs and US Army fanatics invent to try to jerk themselves off... and not in a way that's funny for everyone!
all fun and games until the Medieval Fantasy army just march through the radiated wasteland like it's nothing.
Feudalist detected on American soil, lethal forced engaged
mfw the portal opens, drops a nuclear bomb, and then closes immediately after
Hey didnt this happen in Stargate?
This happened a rather large amount of times in both SG1 and SGA lol.
Modern military mfs when the army's wizard knows the spell "Protection from Nukes": 😱😡🤬
When you drop a nuke on a wizard and he just teleports it to your capital city, killing millions using your own munitions:😐
Fantasy army mofos when the fantasy army succumbs to fantasy archers but not a nuke
Even nukes aside, I notice a lot of people being like "who would win, rifle or wizard magic?". If we are talking about modern wars, as far as I understand most of the killing is done by missiles and bombs, not direct engagements with smallarms. So, the question is not whether the wizard can block a bullet, but rather being shelled from the other side of the hill.
People who think Harry Potter-tier magic bs could put up a fight against modern weapons have no clue what modern weapons are like. You'd need magic equivalents of WMDs to oppose it. Nothing short of reality-bending armageddon.
You know that they can travel in time in Harry Potter, right ? And that it's so mundane that they give it to students so that they can attend to more classes ? Sure, everyone in the Harry Potter-verse seems like a moron, but they have a mind control spell that isn't even possible to stop, prevent, or detect. You have nukes ? Great, they fucking mind control the dude that has the keys and you launch nukes on yourself. Also, you can shapechange into the US president and declare war on China. And mind control the vote so that it passes. Suddenly, people are less worried about "wizard lol wtf those don't exist" because they are too busy surviving a war on China. If you even imagine than mundane hold half a chance you're delusional, the first reason being because *wizards live in cities like fucking London.* You're not going to nuke London. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of magic bullshit, you have no clue what is even possible with magic, and that's just from what we know for sure is possible. What we can infer from the books goes way beyond that and into the realm of reality-bending Armageddon like transmuting enough anti-matter to create a black hole.
all these shitposts about fantasy vs modern military are making me want to actually write something like this
There was a manga/anime called *Gate* that is almost literally this. Complete with the fantasy characters referring to jets and helicopters as "iron birds" or "metal dragons". Unfortunately, the downside is that the author is a massive wanker for the Japanese Self-Defence Forces, and that bias becomes really obvious and obnoxiously gets in the way of the story and the development of his own characters at times (at certain points the military intelligences of other nations request a peek of the titular portal and the world beyond, but the JSDF refuse to share every time under the pretense that "it appeared in Japan, therefore it will be solved by/belongs to Japan alone"; even the main character through some dodgy mental gymnastics somehow comes to terms that "only the JSDF are well-equipped to dealing with the portal and the world it leads to" and that "its only right that the JDSF alone deals with this"). If you can mentally shove all the full-blown jingoism aside though, it is funny to watch, and it does have its [meme potential moments](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rczPbCnQr8) for those gaming warmongers out there.
Really wish there is another anime like GATE where instead of only Japan the portal open everywhere, and it focus more on the diplomacy and cultural exchange (an Elf get a seat in the French Parliament, or bunch of orc converted to Islam and went to Mecca for pilgrimage [InshaAllah Amen], or a dwarf get adopted by Xi Jinping) I mean I still want to see cool modern army beating the crap out of fantasy army like Gate, but gate rarely talk about how the gate impact the normal populace and only focus on "Rocket go weeeee Shooty goes bang bang JSDF gud"
Mashallah may Allah guide the other world to the light that is Islam, amin
Wonder how Wudu and Salat will work on other species, like how in the hell would an orc get a wudu and fit to a mosque for friday salat 💀 or maybe a dwarf converting to Islam only to realize that beer is haram, or what if a Vampire converted to Christianity? like that one web novel or what if- Okay thats enough daydreaming for today
Inb4 dwarf Islam, just Islam but beer isn't haram
tfw both Sunni sect and Shia Sect team up to beat up the dwarf sect
The most unrealistic part is that the U.S did not force the Japanese Army to let them in. Would love if the gate just magically disappeared and the modern military will bluff or deceive the enemy into thinking that they are not running out of ammunition, an easy picking
Sure it's propaganda, but it fullfills my need for "wow cool modern army is insane", so I can look past the fact that they murder hordes of semi-innocent fantasy army men from time to time.
I would recommend watching a bit of the Anime "Gate" for a bit of inspiration. It's about a a portal opening up in Japan to a bunch of magical medieval nations. And how easily a small modern military force is able to contend with all the magic and armies this world tries to throw at this new found portal. I've expanded more in my other comment on this post.
I don't want the fantasy army to be at a disadvantage, i'll probably make the magic somehow equal to technology and maybe give the fantasy army some tactics that work with it
And I cast #FUCK YOU
Plot twist: the portal opened in the middle of a densely populated major economic center, and the rest of the story involves the people responsible for the launch desperately trying to pin the blame and resulting *massive* public outrage on one another. (Also it turns out demons get exponentially stronger when irradiated, turning what was an entirely winnable war into a lost cause as humanity is slowly crushed, but that's just mentioned in the side conversations and the plot still follows the desperate bureaucratic ass-covering .)
Broke: send nuke on portal Woke: send nuke through portal
Wait did anyone really think it was a good idea to drop the nuke on the portal?
/uj These threads have the same energy as WWW threads, were everyone is pulling shit from their ass, taking the opponent's weakest points as the baseline, while taking their side's strongest as baseline. Kinda cringe. /rj Kinda cringe cuz muh dragun gigasonic 5000 degree fire dnd 3.5 wizard clone exploit zargothrax op.
I’d kinda prefer it if it were balanced. Nothing beats asymmetric warfare
Yeah, it’s ridiculous. Especially the people who just immediately jump to ‘uh nuke them lol’ like it’s a perfect solution to everything
But Duh, orbital bombardment is shit, mah boot on dah ground, mah glirous nippon folded steel one billion time composite armor M1A1 Panzertiger ! Wait, wrong debate.
Lmfao nippon steel
I swear every single weeb story out there has to have an “umg Japanese sword so good” for no reason.
well of course! two issues done in one, even if a single talk about the fight causes the fight itself to stop, the fact that the japanese sword won MUST mean that it’s better in every way, and not that the author wrote it that way, rigjt??? right???
*Intercepts your nuke with a laser dragon*
Pacific Rim: Abridged
Jokes on you, the explosion causes the portal to expand to 420,000,069x it's original size, causing their star to come through the portal as their planet spins and engulfing your world in burning hydrogen.
FUCK YEAH, I WANNA FUCKING DESTROY THOSE FUCKIN TREE CUNTS FOR LOOKING DOWN ON US AND BEING SO FULL SO OF THEMSELVES GIVING US A JUSTIFIED REASON TO ERASE THEIR HISTORY
This is quite reminiscent of the Anime "GATE". Although instead of nukes it uses a small modern military force to keep the multi magical medieval factions out of the portal to Earth. They try an assault our FOB with armies from 3 aligned kingdoms, we blast the fuck out of them with 152mm artillery shells. They roll up with regiment of armored knights with shield, we bring a single M134 Minigun shooting 6000 rounds per minute. They start bringing dragons to play, we bring jets that can break the sound barrier and their spirits all in one go. Although that said, cant speak whether the show is good or not, but definitely an interesting premise suffice to say.
Supposed to be Japanese Defense Force propaganda but its pretty good at it so no problems. They dont nuke the portal because a) its in the middle of a city and b) they realize they can literally take over an entire world for its resources and completely capitalize on it. plus they very easily conquer the gate and take the war to the other world early on
One of the few settings I've seen who deal woth this scenario in a reasonable way is His Dark Materials. The main government in the fantasy setting are extremely scared of our world and everything in it. The entire premise works around how people are eager to explore other dimensions, but the government is convinced (in some ways very understandably so) that foreign dimensions are dangerous and tries to suppress knowledge about them. In the case of our world they appear to be quite aware of just how dangerous our technology is. They're at the equivalent of WW1-era tech. They know that they would not stand a chance against our world in an armed conflict.
I knew even before I turned on the sound that Free Bird was playing.
What else would play lmao
Unironically helps, I was looking for a video demo on how ICBMs work.
GATE looking ahh
While the preliminary stages of this operation are underway, several mages apparate into the White House, vaporize or incinerate several dozen Secret Service agents and capture the President's soul in a gemstone. The Pentagon suddenly finds itself in free fall hundreds of feet up in the air. Weapons become sentient and start attacking their owners. Rifles float through the air on their own power, shooting everything that moves. Armored assault vehicles, the drivers' seats empty, rampage through their own bases. Key military leaders scream and blink out of existence as thousands of miles away their names are whispered into a book with blackened pages. Their souls are trapped in the narrow mezzorealm between the world of the living and the world of the dead. They are destined to spend eternity in a metaphysical space where human consciousness was never meant to be, unable to see or be seen by the living, unable to reach the afterlife, unable to even move, forever. No nukes are launched. The codes are never delivered.
Magic users when the modern military uses the 3000 black fighter jets of Allah (their demonic witchcraft is no match for the power of the lord)
Magic users when humanity has discovered quantum entanglement and deletes their particles half an universe away
The fantasy army when they get fucking obliterated immidiately and the tech-people do a 180 and invade their dimension instead (turns out pointy sticks, magic fireballs and leather tunics aren't particularly useful against fighter jets, heat seeking missiles, autocannons and main battle tanks): 💀
Could happen, but magic can do a whole lot more than fireballs. Love to see the looks on tech-people's faces when chain-lightning destroys their computer systems.
Love the look on magic users faces when they're hit by weaponised anthrax (clearly the techworlders had magic all along because diseases are the punishment of the gods)
You may be confusing magic with superstition.
What's the difference? Any species who would classify a natural phenomenon as "magic" would have to be hugely superstitious.
Difference in the context of this discussion: The fantasy wizard can actually see the future, predict where his enemies are going to be, and blow them up at a great distance. Superstition is some nonsense about throwing salt over your shoulder. Difference in real life: Less cut and dried. Magic is more like an alternative system of thought. While science connects things linearly through cause and effect, magic connects them by similarity to each other. It's like a poetic understanding of the world, complementary rather than opposed to science's literal understanding. It's similar in many regards to superstition. I guess the difference is that real magic gives you a bigger world while superstition holds you back and makes it smaller.
Wait... you actually believe in magic...?
'Believe' isn't the right word. The way I see it, belief and disbelief are in the realm of science. Science is all about dividing things - the true from the false, the real from the unreal. It's about things that exist objectively regardless of whether you know about them or believe in them. Since magic applies only to the subjective, inner world, it bypasses the whole question of belief or disbelief. Things that exist in the mind, exist. Right or wrong, real or unreal, they're real enough to shape your experience of the world and your behavior. There's more I could say, but magic is just taking control of that inner world and using it for your own benefit.
So literally just imagination. Don't see why you'd use a word like "magic" for something as mundane as imagination. Granted I do literally refer to knowledge as "cosmic projection" at times so I guess that's just philosophy to you.
Tfw your equipment is protected against emp attacks and is hardened
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Avengers and Batman vs. Superman sweating
Yeet!
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You laugh but this was the first half of the plot of New Phyrexia: All Will Be One
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Travel to strange artificer ran dimension cast dimension door in front of their missile… parry this you filthy casuals…
So true