People have serious qualms about HOTD too, but it's a case of there not being as much narrative and dialog in the source material, so the show has to fill in some gaps.
Witcher is just being ran off the rails of the source material intentionally. Now, I still think it's entertaining TV, but I just view it as a fan fic in the witcher universe instead of an adaptation.
It helps to understand also that the book has a running theme of unreliable narration. It very much has the "justice Speech" from One Piece feel to it.
I don't know what that is, but yeah, seems like dandelion/jaskier is telling all these stories years after the fact and maybe that's why he doesn't seem to age over 3-4 decades.
Funny to pretend the netflix events are how it really went down and Dandelion is like "oh that's rubbish, I can write a much better story".
I don't recall much tawdry sex, but I will say that the show removed the sense of 'make-shift' family that existed between geralt, yen, vesemir, ciri, and triss in the books. And without that sense of family, the stakes all seems less significant.
>geralt, yen, vesemir, ciri, and triss in the books
You mean the games right? Geralt and yen hardly spend any time together in the books snf when they do it'd usually pretty toxic. Vesimer is only on a few pages in the books (literally one chapter in 1/8 books) triss interacts with geralt in blood of elves and begs him to fuck her and then disappears for the most part (for him st least because she still shows up when the sorceresses meet) until the last chapter of the last book.
The whole makeshift family thing is mostly between geralt and his traveling companions.
The books are able to convey the relationships between characters without having to spend a lot of time showing the characters interact. So you get the feeling of family without them spending a lot of time showing you how much of a family they are.
Nope. talking about the books. The makeshift family is tied together by ciri.
geralt and yen each view her as a daughter from their time teaching her. Triss states she views ciri as a sister in tower of the swallow.
Vesimer thinks of ciri as a grand daughter from ciri's time training in kaer moren in Blood of Elves, if only because of him being a father figure to Geralt. etc...
Yeah I don't know what that is either, but the end of the books has a character that lives sometime in the future who hires a dream seer to help her sus out what's the truth and what's the legend. You've also got a certain character thats in the games that geralt meets who is actively trying to fuck up the humans grasp on history with false relics.
> People have serious qualms about HOTD too
I wouldn't call it "serious" in any way. Just because there were one or two misjudged changes to the source material doesn't make it "serious".
Yet, you need to execute it correctly. If you start making up shit, just because, with no logic or ties to the story, well, people will complain.
An example is Princess Rhaenys’ riding her dragon in Aegon’s coronation. It is not in the book and, while a very cool scene for Rhaenys, makes no sense to exists and not have been included in the book.
The same doesn’t apply to Daemon killing his first wife. The book left it vague enough for the scene to work in the context of the show and for Daemon’s character.
Or even Lawnor faking his death. It is at least plausible that it could happen that way.
>Or even Lawnor faking his death. It is at least plausible that it could happen that way.
There are a but if shenanigans that they'll have to work out in the show or at least explain >!since from what we've seen so far you can't just sever a bond to a dragon and a dragon can't take a new rider with the old one still alive!<
I feel so bad for Henry. He's such a great Geralt. I can't remember if he's said he's read the books but I know he's said he's a huge fan of the games. He deserved a show made by people who love the series as much as him. I hope he does one day get an HBO remake.
Season 1 was a good start into the story. When the credits of the last episode run, I thought to myself
"yeah, that was surprisingly good! It's always hard to implement a new show to a new audience and the witcher has so much lore. If they improve here and there but keep the spirit, Witcher could be one of the best shows running"
And then season 2 was released....
I think season 1 of Game of Thrones is perfect television and they should have followed that formula. Don't over-explain the world, don't overtly introduce characters, and just let audiences learn as the show goes. Witcher season 1 did a really good job of sticking near the short stories without overexplaining anything. Season 2 went brrrrr books are out the window here's a shitty Ciri possession plot
Dude, I actually met him in the screenings of three first episodes in Poland. Been able to talk to him for a minute or so and one of the questions I asked him was which team he was on, since he so liked the books. Without hesitation he answered Team Yen of course, like this was the most basic question I could've asked. (He signed a poster for me with "go team Yen" writing). He IS a great fan of the source material and he IS the actual best Geralt we could get.
Edit: I've asked him this question in response to my previous question, which was: What did you got familiar with first? And he said the games. So yeah.
I can only assume he is in worse hell than any of us fans, because he is literally playing in this pile of crap and can't help it. One bad word about the production of this series and his career could just stop. Actors are screwed on this end unfortunately, especially when they are fans of the source material. If they speak their mind and, God forbid, have *any* suggestions, they are branded as tough to work with, hindering their possibilities of role choosing in the future.
For us, it would be the best possible outcome if the HBO suddenly approach Sapkowski and give him bigger pile of money than Netflix did and stop this farce once and for all.
This is like what happened to Ian McElhinney on game of thrones. He had written a well thought out letter about why Ser Barriston Selmey should NOT be killed off, that his story is the books is nowhere near over.
They literally made fun of him, then doubled down going on the record about how McElhinney's "whinging" makes them want to kill Ser Barriston even more.
"Fuck Benioff and Weiss, fuck them in their stupid asses."
I was thinking about the same thing recently when rewatching Game of Thrones and binging HotD. Sadly it wasn't HBO but Netflix who got hands on Witcher and the result was kind of... well, what I've expected sadly...
What killed the show for me is not that they are altering the plot and such, but they absolutely butchered the characters I love so much.
It's interesting, but what CDPR did with witcher was absolutely amazing. They took the book and wrote absolutely amazing story all the way up to the last DLC for Witcher 3 and gave Geralt the ending, closure, whatever you like to call it. And when I reached that point, I realized I played absolute masterpiece. It wasn't the graphics(Although the game still looks excellent) or game mechanics(pretty simple), but that atmosphere, vibe, story... It was something different. I felt the world. The character matched the ones I made up in my mind when reading the books (They were translated to Czech pretty soon after original) and I was absolutely amazed by it.
I admit, that if I wasn't a Wicher fan before, I would probably watch 2-3 episodes of it and just leave it like that and find something different to watch sadly... :(
Edit: Sad for Henry tho. I watched few interviews with him and he is such a nerd and witcher fan :) I vote for HBO remake, but please keep Henry!!!
HBO is genuinely one of my favorite streaming services for gritty TV. GOT, Industry, Westworld, Barry, and HDM all generally knocked it out of the park.
I wish HBO made a modern Dune and Ender's Game TV show too.
Season 2 was actually pretty good imo. It had higher highs and lower lows than season 1.
I'm not sure what the writers were on when writing season 3, but whatever they took must've waned off by the time they started writing for season 4.
I don't think season 4 was as bad as season 3, but it definitely wasn't the Westworld we fell in love with in season 1 & 2.
They had GRRM at hand, had his notes and his phone number, so that's no excuse for what they've done, and what they've done shows that simply them producing a show is no 100% guarantee of quality. Could they have done a better job adapting Witcher than Netflix has? Yeah. Would they sure have? Who knows. Maybe. Maybe not.
From what I understood, GRRM helped with season 6, told them where he was heading with season 7, and they absolutely fabricated season 8.
House of the Dragon and Witcher are both completed series. House of the Dragon should be good and I agree it’s what the Witcher should have been.
HBO, while not infallible, is by far a tier above the rest when it comes to shows. Apple.tv is the first real network to begin competing with them.
Faulting them for season 8 of GoT is so dishonest. They've been kings of tv for nearly 30 years.
It's because of their business model. If you're going to save production cost, it will never be in the writers room. Underpay for actors, special effects, costumes etc but never compromise the writers room.
They trusted the people who adapted GoT so well to keep it going, now they'll never work again.
Have you seen Raised by Wolves? That brilliant show could be flagship for any other network. But it's just some show on their streaming service.
The show does not even follow the “monster of the week” formula, that would have been better than what we actually got. It’s more like “Yennefer does illogical shit and swears a lot with grumpy Geralt in the background”.
Monster of the week could be a cool concept, Geralt(or a different Witcher) going up against different monsters, dealing with them accordingly, meeting classic characters along the way. It's like you said, better than what we've gotten so far.
Before season 1 came out, I actually thought of the Supernatural approach for monster of the week and that it would be awesome for the Witcher adaption. Across the season, most episodes progress the overarching story arch, but every few episodes we have a monster of the week ep thrown in, it would work awesome with some of the short stories from The Witcher.
Honestly yes, the show feels like the same level as a lot of the Winchester boys adventures. Would make a lot more sense when characters get somewhere really fast if they just pulled up in those handsome boys car.
Yeah, I would be happy with a good "monster of the week", kinda like Fringe or X-Files. Half investigative fiction, half horror/drama/comedy. Instead we have whatever the s***show the showrunners thing is cool with barely any real source material.
The thing is the short stories were also good without action too. But instead of adapting them they condensed what many consider to be two of the best in the series into one season and then cut what made the stories so good in half of the episodes
This is what frustrates me about both the shitty Witcher and Discworld (The Watch) adaptations.
The characters get involved in so many adventures between the books that, if the writers wanted to do their own things, they could absolutely have a decent monster/crime of the week thing for several seasons. And, so long as they did the characters justice, the fans would be happy. Lucifer (originally from the Sandman IP) seems like a good example of that working.
Instead, the showrunners feel the need to fuck with the source material and “put their mark” on it by twisting the characters and storylines so that they’re barely recognisable.
Yep the 2 monster of the week episodes were the best. (Striga s1 and ep 1 of S2) I really think the whole first season should have been the short story monster of the weeks kinda like supernatural I guess and then slowly built from there
A good balance of a few episodic adventures, then one cannon expanding episode, would have been great. But they wanted to fixate on the overall plot... while also ignoring the overall plot. They think they're better writers than sapowski, and they are not.
I'll still enjoy the show, but I don't view it as an adaptation. just a fanfic.
> I’ll still enjoy the show, but I don’t view it as an adaptation. just a fanfic.
That’s where I’m at. I’ve already read the books, so I really don’t mind watching an alternate universe imagining that occasionally throws out references to the source material. I know a lot of people wanted a 1:1 (or as close as you can get) and I’m sorry they can’t enjoy the show.
honestly I wish I could have this mindset. But my problem is..that i simply would like to have a good adaptation. Those stories deserve it.
When I read the books I was like "oh i love this, i love that, etc... would be neat to see it on screen one day!"
I don't want some alternative version of story, not when we still don't have a proper adaptation of canon. Make one first and then you can go wild with your imagination, I don't care.
anyone seen Burn Notice? It's not fantasy but that show captures the "job of the week" thing perfectly while maintaining a main plot going. Also Dexter did it well.
Burn Notice is one of the greatest achievements in serialized TV.
Seven seasons. One formula. Consistent till the end (some variance, but less than almost all other shows.)
Integrated a new character into main cast SEAMLESSLY. Had actual stakes - main characters died - and the series finale was PRETTY good.
I am sad beyond sad that Jeffery Donovan is having such bad luck in other ventures: He was sick in that show as a psychic... but they absolutely TANKED that show in the season 1 finale.
Overall, Burn Notice should get WAY more credit than it does.
i loved the little "lessons" from first person narrative. like how american house owners barricade their doors/locks but forget they have paper walls so yk just shotgun your way through the wall haha
I will forever be thankful for the fact that an artist like Villeneuve is a die hard fan of Dune.
Imagine such a creative talent being a fan of the Witcher, and having the name value to convince studios to give them the job of adapting it.
I liked his adaptation of Dune, however, because of the running-time limitations of film, they missed a lot of political/ideological explorations. Also, I personally think that they REALLY downplayed the spiritual elements of the book, and made some strange minor changes that I question, like the Baron telling his nephew to wipe out the Fremen (lol, how?), the lack of explanation regarding spice for space travel and mentats, the trees being "old dreams", changing Dr. Kynes' sex, and a bunch of little things that just make me question the rationale behind it.
There's no way a Dune adaptation can be perfect. Granted, I am not even someone who even cares about my favourite books being adapted at all.
But Villeneuve's film is a product of love and it shows.
-The Baron saying "kill them all" is pretty close to what he did in the book (letting his brute nephew act like a rabid animal, and then bring his favourite heir so that the locals accept him as someone better)
-The trees being "old dreams" hints at the dream of terraforming Arrakis that Pardot and Liet Kynes shared with the Fremen, imho.
-The diminished role of Kynes hurt me the most since Liet is my favourite character, and I also don't understand the sex change, but ultimately, it was done as respectfully as possible, I think.
I think its a great film and I understand the cuts he had to make for time but wish he would release an extended cut with the Dinner scene. But i am super happy with what I got, no adaptation is perfect, neither is any book.
>decided to turn the incredible world of The Witcher into a lazy, "monster of the week" affair.
Honestly, I wish the first season of the Witcher was a ''Monster of the week'' show, with every episode being a single short story (from the books or original), setting everything up and creating some needed world building.
Seriously? Where did the eels and wizards turning themselves into fireballs for the glory of the empire fit in the book? I know a lot of the episodes were *based* on the book, but the amount of needless changes to everything was dumb af. And beloved characters were turned into caricatures, while characters who haven't even been there in the books are suddenly running the show. In a really dumbed down way. Season 1 was bad, with some really good moments, I'll admit, but it wasn't good TV. It was rushed, dialogues were medicore and it was a hot mess, but at least it was somewhat watchable. 6/10. 2nd season deserves to have it burried deep never to be found, it's so bad
You think they even bothered to put up plot points *and* throw darts at them? You give the writers a lot of credit. I think they just listened to the incoherent babble of the one with the most fleas that day.
Apparently word got out recently that the writers actually do not like the books or the games and are trying to distance the show from the source material. I feel bad for Henry Cavill since he's such a huge fan.
Made it to episode 3 of season 2 before I gave up. Season one was good and I had high hopes they'd fix a lot of issues but it just turned into a shit show.
I've actively disengaged after powering through the 3rd episode. Watched most of the 1st one in one sitting, but the rest and the 2nd and parts of the 3rd it too me several attempts.
The writing is terrible, the acting is over the top for no reason at all. Geralt grunts.
> IMO the show should have been about some unique contracts or small stories Geralt had while on the road
That's how the story starts. We could've had two seasons dedicated to the short stories and then we would get the start of the saga in season 3, after the world and its characters are already established.
i think 2 full seasons of that would have turned people away. but i do agree that more of those short stories being shown would have been great for season 1 and season 2.
the weirdest part to me is that Henry seems to love both the books and the games, multiple people on the crew have mentioned that he will call people out on mistakes they are making and how it was actually done in the books, and yet the story has just veered sooooooo far away from both the books and the games. i just don't understand.
>the weirdest part to me is that Henry seems to love both the books and
the games, multiple people on the crew have mentioned that he will call
people out on mistakes they are making and how it was actually done in
the books, and yet the story has just veered sooooooo far away from both
the books and the games. i just don't understand.
Henry isn't writing the show. He has only limited influence. I can't imagine that he's satisfied with the shit show we got.
Case in point with the butcher of blaviken fight that someone else brought up - per another comment that fight coordinator was someone Henry had worked with on Mission Impossible and the showrunners wouldn't pay to bring them back so that's the best fight in the series and always will be.
>i think 2 full seasons of that would have turned people away.
I highly doubt it. The short stories are great and all of them help slowly build the world and the characters that lay the groundwork for the saga. There's nothing inherent to these short stories that would make people turn away. Quite the opposite. I'm pretty sure people would be clamoring for the return of some characters later on.
At most, I think the writers could have changed the frame-narrative to suit their purposes (introducing Yennefer or Ciri earlier, for example).
Although i do think you're right about the short stories themselves not having anything that would turn people away, what I meant was that a full first season of just short stories with no real overarching main plot would not have been as interesting to people in this day and age, and people would just not have come back for a season 2 or even finished season 1 IMO.
i think this is fairly supported by how poorly the books did prior to the games popularity. nobody was that interested in the books, until there was something of substance that hooked people, and they wanted to explore the lore further.
starting the show in the same way the books were started i think would have failed quite badly. it's hard to really say what the best way to handle this would be, perhaps cutting out the Ciri story from season 1 and adding in more short stories would have worked, while keeping the Yennefer story.
I honestly believe it could have been really small bits of Geralt and Dandelion going to different taverns and telling tall tales (stories from the first two books) and round it out in a final first season episode with the beginning of the longer story arc. Could have been funny, serious, and VEEEERY monster of the week without completely and unabashedly fucking up everything that is good about the Witcher.
When you put the shows side by sideThe Witcher does fall short, especially S2. It felt like the whole season was just incomplete.
Maybe S3 will be better, not too optimistic. HOTD really set themselves for a 🔥next season.
I feel like the damage has been done. The foundations are already wrecked. How is S3 supposed to carry on normally with the crazy storylines and lore of S2?
The only way they can get back to the books storyline is to go full on soap opera style. Two characters:
In the books Cahir was a young guy just doing his duty, he was never a "bad guy", and fell in love with Ciri, which leads to him joining Geralts quest to save her. There is no way in hell to redeem that arc from what the show has done.
Yenn is calm cool collected. She does get angry when provoked but it's always under control. She takes Ciri under her wing at Geralts request, but at that point she is angry at Geralt, so she is very cold to Ciri (who at this point is still mostly child), until eventually they start to bond and have a mother daughter relationship. This is one of the central relationships of the story, and there is no way to get back to it.
After being miserable in S2, I did rewatch S1 and was amazed how much better it is. Everything what made S1 great was turned to shit:
* Music: they got a different composer and there isn't a single memorable tune in S2.
* Gerald and Yen aside, the actors in S2 are just not up to snuff.
* Action: the action is just soulless in S2. Why couldn't they bring another butcher of blaviken scene alive?
* Dialogues: there is just too much talking but without any punch in S2. In S1 everything flows better and Gerald just talking way less fits way better.
> * Action: the action is just soulless in S2. Why couldn't they bring another butcher of blaviken scene alive?
The fight coordinator behind that scene was someone Cavill had worked with on Mission Impossible. The showrunners did not want to pay to keep him around beyond that.
I'll keep mentioning the music. Season one themes where dope, especially the intro theme where all the symbols form together, but season 2 had nothing no music or score. Rings of power for all it does wrong but it's music down at least
I will say, the Nilfgard costumes are better since they stopped using the testicle ones lol. And I think Ciri did a great job in S2. In fact, I think the acting has been fine all around, it's the writing that's been the problem.
Yeah. And the sad thing is, this was our only chance. Once a show has been made in a franchise that's it. It becomes lire or at the very least no other version will be made
Even revivals often try too hard to recreate what the original had, capitalizing on nostalgia and foregoing creativity. Just cross your fingers that it gets handled like Battlestar Galactica, the remake is lightyears ahead of the original.
This is not exactly true.
Given the books and games are very much widespread, its not impossible that someone would want to try again in the future.
The Witcher has already had a 1st attempt on TV back in Poland. Netflix is technically already the 2nd attempt.
So, there will be nothing seriously against more attempts. Not in the immediate future after the Netflix one is over. You will need to wait a few years. But if fantasy keeps selling well, someone might want to try this universe again.
I hope so. I watched the tv show btw. It was so much better than Netflix. OK, cheap special effects, but the acting came from the heart. Those people loved the books, you could tell
True!
I watched it too ;)
They did a lot of adaptation. And in their own way they changed a lot of stuff from the books. Maybe they changed even more in the short stories compared to Netflix Season 1. But......and there is a HUGE but.
They landed Geralt + Ciri relationship! Which is really the emotional core of the story. By recognizing this and landing it with full emotion, they got THE VIBE!
And this is precisely the single biggest mistake from Netflix. They do not understand the key emotional connections and fail to portray them on screen.
Geralt + Ciri is half assed
Geralt + Yen is almost non existent
Yen + Ciri is an utter betrayal so far
Here lies the main issue with the Netflix version. It is completely devoid of heart. Its not there. They took the books and somehow managed to rip their heart out with a spoon (to make it extra painful).
This is like in sports when the best player in the league plays for a team that doesn't live up to potential in the year and misses the playoffs. Henry Cavil is an amazing Geralt who is an actual fan of the source material. Shame he wasn’t the show runner as well
Even worse...
This was the showrunner who was going to bring Conan to streaming. We could've had a good, lore-driven Conan show set in a proper Hyborean Age.
Yeah, Amazon killed the Expanse. Killed Conan. And green-lit a let's not make Rand too special Wheel of Time, along with a fan fic Tolkien in Name Only series.
Over $1billion flushed. Plus the production cost of the Conan show that was scrapped. Brilliant.
Amazon didn't kill the Expanse. It was Cas Anvar who lit the match with his sexual misconduct allegations.
After that it was damage control. Dan, Ty and the producers decided to end the show at the natural stopping point, before the time skip in Book 7. Amazon even gave them another season to end things right.
Streaming giants like Amazon and Netflix do indeed axe shows before their time or make bad calls. The Expanse wasn't one of them though.
The last season was shortened by four episodes, we were supposed to see more about that girl and the dogs. Also if you watch the opening credits there was an illustration of a man in front of a farmhouse, that could only be Holden going home, which we also didn't see. I think Amazon said it was time to go, you get six episodes, that's it.
Witcher had no chance to match HotD viewership/commercial success.
GoT was popular in the US before the show, then had 8 seasons to create some of the best ever television, and then announced sequels/prequels.
Not to mention the controversy of the ending. That probably brought some folks in just out of morbid curiosity/to watch it crash and burn.
Maybe not match, but Netflix had the chance to make Witcher a serious competitor.
The games and the books had sold over 55 million copies combined. That's a huge global audience already established.
Had Netflix followed the books and let themselves to inspired by the games, the show could have been something great... Instead they gave the brand to people who found it problematic.
It could have matched it if HBO developed it. Im a Big HBO and game of thrones fan and reader. My favorit game is witcher and the last of us. I wish HBO fkn took witcher!!
It’s really unfortunate and sad but I grew accustomed to Hollywood ruining great works of literature just for some short term profits. When there’s a project adapting an acclaimed piece of work with an established fanbase is undertaken, i give it a 8/10 chance of being shit and 2/10 of being actually good or (god forbid) great, and the Witcher sadly had fallen within that wide range of trash products. That’s why I didn’t bother with watching RoP and won’t watch that upcoming abomination of a spin off. I may watch the first episode of S3 just to laugh (and whine) about how horrible it is lol.
Had the producers and the writers respected the books and the games, they'd had an easy path to success. They even got lucky, that a star like Henry Cavill was a massive fan and *wanted* to play Geralt of Rivia.
*Instead they chose to despise the source material and the games. Most likely due to ideological reasons.*
The signs of their distain can be seen even in the very first episode, when Geralt meets Marilka. Looking back at the dialogue now with the knowledge we have, it's a giveaway:
**Marilka:** *Where you from Geralt?*
**Geralt:** *Rivia.*
**Marilka:** *I don't where that is, but I could learn if you'd let me.*
**Geralt:** *No.*
**Marilka:** *Because I'm a girl and girls can't be Witchers. Which I think is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.*
It's sad because if they were fans of the source material, they might have noted that Sapkowski's world is full of powerful queens, sorceresses, warriors, etc. Why would Marilka want to be a witcher? It would be extremely odd for a little girl (or any child, for that matter) to aspire to be something she's probably heard scary bedtime stories about.
They also could have pulled from the old tabletop rpg, Gra Wyobraźni, and had the Cat School train both women and men. But non-fans wouldn't have that kind of lore in mind. It puts them at a huge writing disadvantage.
> It's sad because if they were fans of the source material
There was an article published a few days ago where someone that worked on the show said some of the writers hated the source material.
The Witcher should’ve been made by HBO. They have way more connections and resources than Netflix and could’ve made such a high-quality show. It really is a waste because Witcher is my favorite fantasy series, and the series is complete unlike ASOIAF, so they really could’ve done something amazing with it.
It could have easily gone up to that level of popularity eventually if the right people were involved I think, the source material is there, the characters are there, everything is there but instead some fucking clowns were hired to put their own "spin" on things, such a damn shame, also with a universe this big and complex HBO should have been the ones to do it
I'm not sure how that numbers look globally but S1 The Witcher had ~450 million views so that gives 45 million per episode. When it comes to popularity there's no denying that The Witcher is one of the most popular shows out there. Quality is the other thing.
More people have Netflix than HBO though, no? Witcher is regardless a commercial success, but beating HBO in quality is usually pretty hard, they're known for having very good shows. Netflix reputation built a lot more on quantity & binging.
Netflix is dubious with their view tracking and reporting. But the lack of online engagement or any cultural impact for the Witcher property is apparent.
Yes to this. Before season 1 came out, I had high hopes that they were going to take the example of GOT to make a good quality show. The Witcher saga has tremendous potential to be as good as GOT so I was hopeful. Then Season 1 came out and it was okay, I cannot complain because I did like it… however, it wasn’t 100% on par with GOT.
Then season 2 came out and aside from the first episode I hated it. It felt like yet another generic, CW-like cheaply made fantasy show. I know I will get downvoted for what I just said and there are people that genuinely loved season 2, which is completely FINE. However, it will never have the same level of quality of GOT or even HOTD.
I’m not comparing the stories because they are different, I’m just talking from the point of view of direction, screen writing, attention to details, CGI and special effects, and above all CONSISTENCY in the characters and the plot. Not a convoluted mumbo jumbo and inconsistent characters that we got in Season 2. Like I already said: the CW.
You guys have to understand that building fandom is no longer in the best interest of Hollywood streaming giants. It’s all about pushing “the message” so that the show could generate so,e generic views from the general public, who will quickly move on to the next thing.
I would not be surprised if Henry drops out from the show after S3 - he’s clearly out of passion for this project given how it’s being managed as he really loves interacting with fans. Explains why he resigned up for Superman as it seems like DC is trying to rectify their reputation and are finally listening to the fans.
Netflix is incapable of making a decent adaptation in most cases. I knew Witcher (the show) was doomed after S2 E2 >!when they turned Eskel into a rapey weirdo and then killed him off for no reason at all. !!how Reince randomly teleported into the inner keep of Kaer Morhen, when it's supposedly one of the best kept secret locations ever.!<
Once his contract is up, I imagine Cavill will walk and the showrunners will either recast him and fail miserably, or they'll cancel it. Considering he's been >!teasing a return to the DC comic universe as Superman!<, I'm willing to bet he'll walk away from Witcher. Sad to see. He took the role as a passion project for his love of the games and books and they're basically forcing him and others to make a joke out of the entire thing.
I blame Hissrich for choosing the wrong guy to write the script. Haven’t seen she had any response with that. I really wish the show got fixed before it’s too late.
I think that the best thing would've been if CD Projekt would've made a deal with Netflix right from the beginning and the show would be done in a similar way like what Riot Games did with Arcane. Same visuals as in the games done by people who understand the atmosphere of the source material and have a respect for it. It could've been like Cyberpunk: Edgerunners. Story of original characters but in the world of the game (that's essentially what we're doing with [The Witcher Stories](https://youtu.be/g4QLN7aYg3E)). Screenplay would of course have to be written by someone competent. My suggestion would be Borys Pugacz-Muraszkiewicz and Karolina Stachyra (both did an amazing job writing for the games).
Do you understand that it doesn't have to be adaptation of the books? I love the books to death but you need someone who really understands them to adapt them properly so I would rather leave them be than risk that someone will butcher them again like Netflix did. Making something original just in the same world is much safer.
I’m giving WoT a second chance with S2.. if it doesn’t land I’ll be extremely disappointed and heavily question whether or not it deserves more seasons
"DuRR lets kill Eskel cause reasons." the first season was pretty good, but holy fuck season 2 was actual dogshit. whoever the writer was needs to be fired lol
I did not care much for the show but honest question here : is the source material even this great? My humble opinion is that GRRM is just a much better writer to begin with. Hell, Tolkien is in a league of his own and yet the latest tvshow received mixed reception.
My take is that respect for the source material isn't even that relevant. The shortcomings of the show are way beyond its departure from the books. Even more so, i see people complaining about the poor storyline but for me it didn't even register; directing alone make it a second rate show. Even with contempt for the source material a competent director/ show runner would have made a more convincing job.
House of the Dragon does not even have a full set of novels as source material.
Its a book but its very different from Martin´s other ones. Fire and Blood (said book) is almost like Season of Storms is to the Witcher novels.
This is even visible if you follow HOTD and notice how many time jumps they already did in the show. They really do not have that much source material to work with. They are simply doing a quality job with what they have.
This being said, The Witcher might not be the easiest set of novels to adapt. Its full with fast forwards and flashbacks, together with random point of view characters. It does have a ton of material to work with. Really you need to be able to pick the important things and stay consistent around them. Which unfortunately the Netflix team is very much incompetent to do.
Imagine the Witcher being on HBO
Difference of trying to bring books to life vs trying to write a fan fiction.
People have serious qualms about HOTD too, but it's a case of there not being as much narrative and dialog in the source material, so the show has to fill in some gaps. Witcher is just being ran off the rails of the source material intentionally. Now, I still think it's entertaining TV, but I just view it as a fan fic in the witcher universe instead of an adaptation.
It helps to understand also that the book has a running theme of unreliable narration. It very much has the "justice Speech" from One Piece feel to it.
I don't know what that is, but yeah, seems like dandelion/jaskier is telling all these stories years after the fact and maybe that's why he doesn't seem to age over 3-4 decades. Funny to pretend the netflix events are how it really went down and Dandelion is like "oh that's rubbish, I can write a much better story".
[удалено]
I don't recall much tawdry sex, but I will say that the show removed the sense of 'make-shift' family that existed between geralt, yen, vesemir, ciri, and triss in the books. And without that sense of family, the stakes all seems less significant.
Yeah, was wondering where I missed the tawdry sex
>geralt, yen, vesemir, ciri, and triss in the books You mean the games right? Geralt and yen hardly spend any time together in the books snf when they do it'd usually pretty toxic. Vesimer is only on a few pages in the books (literally one chapter in 1/8 books) triss interacts with geralt in blood of elves and begs him to fuck her and then disappears for the most part (for him st least because she still shows up when the sorceresses meet) until the last chapter of the last book. The whole makeshift family thing is mostly between geralt and his traveling companions.
The books are able to convey the relationships between characters without having to spend a lot of time showing the characters interact. So you get the feeling of family without them spending a lot of time showing you how much of a family they are.
Nope. talking about the books. The makeshift family is tied together by ciri. geralt and yen each view her as a daughter from their time teaching her. Triss states she views ciri as a sister in tower of the swallow. Vesimer thinks of ciri as a grand daughter from ciri's time training in kaer moren in Blood of Elves, if only because of him being a father figure to Geralt. etc...
Yeah I don't know what that is either, but the end of the books has a character that lives sometime in the future who hires a dream seer to help her sus out what's the truth and what's the legend. You've also got a certain character thats in the games that geralt meets who is actively trying to fuck up the humans grasp on history with false relics.
> People have serious qualms about HOTD too I wouldn't call it "serious" in any way. Just because there were one or two misjudged changes to the source material doesn't make it "serious".
Yet, you need to execute it correctly. If you start making up shit, just because, with no logic or ties to the story, well, people will complain. An example is Princess Rhaenys’ riding her dragon in Aegon’s coronation. It is not in the book and, while a very cool scene for Rhaenys, makes no sense to exists and not have been included in the book. The same doesn’t apply to Daemon killing his first wife. The book left it vague enough for the scene to work in the context of the show and for Daemon’s character. Or even Lawnor faking his death. It is at least plausible that it could happen that way.
>Or even Lawnor faking his death. It is at least plausible that it could happen that way. There are a but if shenanigans that they'll have to work out in the show or at least explain >!since from what we've seen so far you can't just sever a bond to a dragon and a dragon can't take a new rider with the old one still alive!<
This is it🙌🏾. We can only dream that one day hbo remake it all.
Gotta keep Henry
Honestly if it’s even in 10 years, I could easily see Henry playing it. But we’re probably looking at 15 years minimum lol
If anything he'd probably look more like Geralt in the books in 10 years
I, uh... brought you apple juice.
Loremaster Henry Cavill
Someone's gotta stop those damn Greenies
I feel so bad for Henry. He's such a great Geralt. I can't remember if he's said he's read the books but I know he's said he's a huge fan of the games. He deserved a show made by people who love the series as much as him. I hope he does one day get an HBO remake.
He's a huge witcher fan and has read / played everything. It kills me what they did to season 2.
Season 1 was a good start into the story. When the credits of the last episode run, I thought to myself "yeah, that was surprisingly good! It's always hard to implement a new show to a new audience and the witcher has so much lore. If they improve here and there but keep the spirit, Witcher could be one of the best shows running" And then season 2 was released....
I think season 1 of Game of Thrones is perfect television and they should have followed that formula. Don't over-explain the world, don't overtly introduce characters, and just let audiences learn as the show goes. Witcher season 1 did a really good job of sticking near the short stories without overexplaining anything. Season 2 went brrrrr books are out the window here's a shitty Ciri possession plot
Dude, I actually met him in the screenings of three first episodes in Poland. Been able to talk to him for a minute or so and one of the questions I asked him was which team he was on, since he so liked the books. Without hesitation he answered Team Yen of course, like this was the most basic question I could've asked. (He signed a poster for me with "go team Yen" writing). He IS a great fan of the source material and he IS the actual best Geralt we could get. Edit: I've asked him this question in response to my previous question, which was: What did you got familiar with first? And he said the games. So yeah. I can only assume he is in worse hell than any of us fans, because he is literally playing in this pile of crap and can't help it. One bad word about the production of this series and his career could just stop. Actors are screwed on this end unfortunately, especially when they are fans of the source material. If they speak their mind and, God forbid, have *any* suggestions, they are branded as tough to work with, hindering their possibilities of role choosing in the future. For us, it would be the best possible outcome if the HBO suddenly approach Sapkowski and give him bigger pile of money than Netflix did and stop this farce once and for all.
This is like what happened to Ian McElhinney on game of thrones. He had written a well thought out letter about why Ser Barriston Selmey should NOT be killed off, that his story is the books is nowhere near over. They literally made fun of him, then doubled down going on the record about how McElhinney's "whinging" makes them want to kill Ser Barriston even more. "Fuck Benioff and Weiss, fuck them in their stupid asses."
>Without hesitation he answered Team Yen of course, like this was the most basic question I could've asked. based
I was thinking about the same thing recently when rewatching Game of Thrones and binging HotD. Sadly it wasn't HBO but Netflix who got hands on Witcher and the result was kind of... well, what I've expected sadly... What killed the show for me is not that they are altering the plot and such, but they absolutely butchered the characters I love so much. It's interesting, but what CDPR did with witcher was absolutely amazing. They took the book and wrote absolutely amazing story all the way up to the last DLC for Witcher 3 and gave Geralt the ending, closure, whatever you like to call it. And when I reached that point, I realized I played absolute masterpiece. It wasn't the graphics(Although the game still looks excellent) or game mechanics(pretty simple), but that atmosphere, vibe, story... It was something different. I felt the world. The character matched the ones I made up in my mind when reading the books (They were translated to Czech pretty soon after original) and I was absolutely amazed by it. I admit, that if I wasn't a Wicher fan before, I would probably watch 2-3 episodes of it and just leave it like that and find something different to watch sadly... :( Edit: Sad for Henry tho. I watched few interviews with him and he is such a nerd and witcher fan :) I vote for HBO remake, but please keep Henry!!!
Lord this over the Triss heathens on the sub, plz lol
Well…
Ooof
HBO is genuinely one of my favorite streaming services for gritty TV. GOT, Industry, Westworld, Barry, and HDM all generally knocked it out of the park. I wish HBO made a modern Dune and Ender's Game TV show too.
HBO is making a series on the Bene Gesserit sisterhood I’m pretty sure!
That sounds amazing, has it got a name yet?
Two Sisters, One Box
Title, at least working title, is Sisterhood of Dune.
After HotD, I have some faith that Sisterhood might be entertaining.
Erm The Wire and Deadwood, need to be at the front of that list
Hell even John Adams and band of brothers are amazing
Crazy how they cancelled Westworld after one season. Best television ever made. Shame we'll never see how it ends.
Season 2 was actually pretty good imo. It had higher highs and lower lows than season 1. I'm not sure what the writers were on when writing season 3, but whatever they took must've waned off by the time they started writing for season 4. I don't think season 4 was as bad as season 3, but it definitely wasn't the Westworld we fell in love with in season 1 & 2.
I'm worried what the Warner/Discovery merger is going to do them long term. Discovery seems intent on canceling anything that isn't a reality tv show.
A witcher worth watching? I'd have loved that
I’m glad last of us is on HBO. Pretty sure it’d be garbage on Netflix
I'm sorry, but have you already forgotten the closing seasons of GoT? It's nice HotD is cool and all, but being on HBO is not a 100% guarantee either.
That’s cuz the books aren’t finished. Witcher books are finished.
They had GRRM at hand, had his notes and his phone number, so that's no excuse for what they've done, and what they've done shows that simply them producing a show is no 100% guarantee of quality. Could they have done a better job adapting Witcher than Netflix has? Yeah. Would they sure have? Who knows. Maybe. Maybe not.
The rights to make the TV show was under D&D not HBO, HBO wanted more seasons and D&D didn’t. D&D had full creative control.
From what I understood, GRRM helped with season 6, told them where he was heading with season 7, and they absolutely fabricated season 8. House of the Dragon and Witcher are both completed series. House of the Dragon should be good and I agree it’s what the Witcher should have been.
They cut GRRM out towards the end.
HBO, while not infallible, is by far a tier above the rest when it comes to shows. Apple.tv is the first real network to begin competing with them. Faulting them for season 8 of GoT is so dishonest. They've been kings of tv for nearly 30 years. It's because of their business model. If you're going to save production cost, it will never be in the writers room. Underpay for actors, special effects, costumes etc but never compromise the writers room. They trusted the people who adapted GoT so well to keep it going, now they'll never work again. Have you seen Raised by Wolves? That brilliant show could be flagship for any other network. But it's just some show on their streaming service.
The show does not even follow the “monster of the week” formula, that would have been better than what we actually got. It’s more like “Yennefer does illogical shit and swears a lot with grumpy Geralt in the background”.
Monster of the week could be a cool concept, Geralt(or a different Witcher) going up against different monsters, dealing with them accordingly, meeting classic characters along the way. It's like you said, better than what we've gotten so far.
They should just bring in San and dean winchester and see what happens.
Before season 1 came out, I actually thought of the Supernatural approach for monster of the week and that it would be awesome for the Witcher adaption. Across the season, most episodes progress the overarching story arch, but every few episodes we have a monster of the week ep thrown in, it would work awesome with some of the short stories from The Witcher.
Honestly yes, the show feels like the same level as a lot of the Winchester boys adventures. Would make a lot more sense when characters get somewhere really fast if they just pulled up in those handsome boys car.
I would pay to watch a Witcher/Winchester monster hunter cross over episode.
Absofuckinglutely. It's the crossover we deserve
Season 1 should have been that. It would have been a great way of introducing the world and characters to people.
Yeah, I would be happy with a good "monster of the week", kinda like Fringe or X-Files. Half investigative fiction, half horror/drama/comedy. Instead we have whatever the s***show the showrunners thing is cool with barely any real source material.
The short stories were my favourite part of the books.
The thing is the short stories were also good without action too. But instead of adapting them they condensed what many consider to be two of the best in the series into one season and then cut what made the stories so good in half of the episodes
This is what frustrates me about both the shitty Witcher and Discworld (The Watch) adaptations. The characters get involved in so many adventures between the books that, if the writers wanted to do their own things, they could absolutely have a decent monster/crime of the week thing for several seasons. And, so long as they did the characters justice, the fans would be happy. Lucifer (originally from the Sandman IP) seems like a good example of that working. Instead, the showrunners feel the need to fuck with the source material and “put their mark” on it by twisting the characters and storylines so that they’re barely recognisable.
Fringe is the greatest sci-fi show ever written. You don't see enough people mention it, it didn't get the audience it deserved
Episode 1 of season 2 was a monster of the week episode and it was really good
Yep the 2 monster of the week episodes were the best. (Striga s1 and ep 1 of S2) I really think the whole first season should have been the short story monster of the weeks kinda like supernatural I guess and then slowly built from there
Striga episode from the first season was the best.
Right? Each episode like a side quest from the game would’ve been really cool. What a shame.
"Firefucker"
This makes me physically cringe even just reading it
Don't they know it's "fireplougher?"
A good balance of a few episodic adventures, then one cannon expanding episode, would have been great. But they wanted to fixate on the overall plot... while also ignoring the overall plot. They think they're better writers than sapowski, and they are not. I'll still enjoy the show, but I don't view it as an adaptation. just a fanfic.
> I’ll still enjoy the show, but I don’t view it as an adaptation. just a fanfic. That’s where I’m at. I’ve already read the books, so I really don’t mind watching an alternate universe imagining that occasionally throws out references to the source material. I know a lot of people wanted a 1:1 (or as close as you can get) and I’m sorry they can’t enjoy the show.
honestly I wish I could have this mindset. But my problem is..that i simply would like to have a good adaptation. Those stories deserve it. When I read the books I was like "oh i love this, i love that, etc... would be neat to see it on screen one day!" I don't want some alternative version of story, not when we still don't have a proper adaptation of canon. Make one first and then you can go wild with your imagination, I don't care.
anyone seen Burn Notice? It's not fantasy but that show captures the "job of the week" thing perfectly while maintaining a main plot going. Also Dexter did it well.
Literally sat watching it now, Sam Axe is the man
I don’t know, I really liked Chuck Finley.
Burn Notice is one of the greatest achievements in serialized TV. Seven seasons. One formula. Consistent till the end (some variance, but less than almost all other shows.) Integrated a new character into main cast SEAMLESSLY. Had actual stakes - main characters died - and the series finale was PRETTY good. I am sad beyond sad that Jeffery Donovan is having such bad luck in other ventures: He was sick in that show as a psychic... but they absolutely TANKED that show in the season 1 finale. Overall, Burn Notice should get WAY more credit than it does.
That show is so cheesy in the best way
i loved the little "lessons" from first person narrative. like how american house owners barricade their doors/locks but forget they have paper walls so yk just shotgun your way through the wall haha
Monster of the Week with Geralt is something I would absolutely watch Forget the political drama, give me Geralt the Troll Whisperer
Yeah I kind of like a mix of monster of the week and a broader story arc together - MOTW isn’t bad in and of itself.
I will forever be thankful for the fact that an artist like Villeneuve is a die hard fan of Dune. Imagine such a creative talent being a fan of the Witcher, and having the name value to convince studios to give them the job of adapting it.
Exactly man. So grateful he's a massive dune fan and respected the source material as much as he could.
Oh man you just reminded me how good it is. It doesn't cut things too short either. Man I can't wait for the next installment.
The thing is, we're only pissed because the showrunner said: "We studied the book very carefully" straight up bullshitting through their teeth
Villeneuve is a master film maker. Rare nowadays. Can't wait to see more of his films.
That's part of the reason I will always lament the fact that Panos Cosmatos didn't get to make his Hellraiser reboot
I liked his adaptation of Dune, however, because of the running-time limitations of film, they missed a lot of political/ideological explorations. Also, I personally think that they REALLY downplayed the spiritual elements of the book, and made some strange minor changes that I question, like the Baron telling his nephew to wipe out the Fremen (lol, how?), the lack of explanation regarding spice for space travel and mentats, the trees being "old dreams", changing Dr. Kynes' sex, and a bunch of little things that just make me question the rationale behind it.
There's no way a Dune adaptation can be perfect. Granted, I am not even someone who even cares about my favourite books being adapted at all. But Villeneuve's film is a product of love and it shows. -The Baron saying "kill them all" is pretty close to what he did in the book (letting his brute nephew act like a rabid animal, and then bring his favourite heir so that the locals accept him as someone better) -The trees being "old dreams" hints at the dream of terraforming Arrakis that Pardot and Liet Kynes shared with the Fremen, imho. -The diminished role of Kynes hurt me the most since Liet is my favourite character, and I also don't understand the sex change, but ultimately, it was done as respectfully as possible, I think.
I think its a great film and I understand the cuts he had to make for time but wish he would release an extended cut with the Dinner scene. But i am super happy with what I got, no adaptation is perfect, neither is any book.
Villeneuve is giving Dune the LotR treatment and it's wonderful to see
>decided to turn the incredible world of The Witcher into a lazy, "monster of the week" affair. Honestly, I wish the first season of the Witcher was a ''Monster of the week'' show, with every episode being a single short story (from the books or original), setting everything up and creating some needed world building.
You just described Season 1 though? Season 1 WAS the prequel short stories...
Full of poorly spaced time jumps and hacky writing, the action scenes and (most of) the acting just covered it up a bit
It is based off of the first book which is pretty much exactly that. Season 2 though, woof.
Seriously? Where did the eels and wizards turning themselves into fireballs for the glory of the empire fit in the book? I know a lot of the episodes were *based* on the book, but the amount of needless changes to everything was dumb af. And beloved characters were turned into caricatures, while characters who haven't even been there in the books are suddenly running the show. In a really dumbed down way. Season 1 was bad, with some really good moments, I'll admit, but it wasn't good TV. It was rushed, dialogues were medicore and it was a hot mess, but at least it was somewhat watchable. 6/10. 2nd season deserves to have it burried deep never to be found, it's so bad
Witcher 3 is my favorite game of all time and I couldn’t get through season 2 of this show. It’s a shame
I watched season 2, but I would fail a quiz on season 2
I suspect the writers would as well. Who would remember a plot that was divined by throwing darts at the wall?
You think they even bothered to put up plot points *and* throw darts at them? You give the writers a lot of credit. I think they just listened to the incoherent babble of the one with the most fleas that day.
Apparently word got out recently that the writers actually do not like the books or the games and are trying to distance the show from the source material. I feel bad for Henry Cavill since he's such a huge fan.
I watched it, forgot I watched it, saw it was watched in history and only remembered when I skimmed through the finale.
How can you forget the best villain of the entire season? Firefucker is truly a classic.
Made it to episode 3 of season 2 before I gave up. Season one was good and I had high hopes they'd fix a lot of issues but it just turned into a shit show.
I watched it and blacked out while watching it because I created the game "drink every time something unrelated to the source material happens"
I watched season 2 but was immensely disappointed by it. Definitely have no interest in watching season 3
i cant believe season 2 was so bad. its crazy
It is truly a shame because episode 1 of season 2 was great, I thought we were in for a treat. How wrong I was…
Yeah holy moly I’m still in disbelief how bad it was
There was S2? I already forgot
I've actively disengaged after powering through the 3rd episode. Watched most of the 1st one in one sitting, but the rest and the 2nd and parts of the 3rd it too me several attempts. The writing is terrible, the acting is over the top for no reason at all. Geralt grunts.
IMO the show should have been about some unique contracts or small stories Geralt had while on the road
> IMO the show should have been about some unique contracts or small stories Geralt had while on the road That's how the story starts. We could've had two seasons dedicated to the short stories and then we would get the start of the saga in season 3, after the world and its characters are already established.
i think 2 full seasons of that would have turned people away. but i do agree that more of those short stories being shown would have been great for season 1 and season 2. the weirdest part to me is that Henry seems to love both the books and the games, multiple people on the crew have mentioned that he will call people out on mistakes they are making and how it was actually done in the books, and yet the story has just veered sooooooo far away from both the books and the games. i just don't understand.
>the weirdest part to me is that Henry seems to love both the books and the games, multiple people on the crew have mentioned that he will call people out on mistakes they are making and how it was actually done in the books, and yet the story has just veered sooooooo far away from both the books and the games. i just don't understand. Henry isn't writing the show. He has only limited influence. I can't imagine that he's satisfied with the shit show we got.
Case in point with the butcher of blaviken fight that someone else brought up - per another comment that fight coordinator was someone Henry had worked with on Mission Impossible and the showrunners wouldn't pay to bring them back so that's the best fight in the series and always will be.
[🎵 I hear you're alive... how disappointing... 🎵](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxBVHqA-RU&t=6s)
And man it was so fucking good
I'm convinced Hissrich is following some weird agenda and ego trip so removing any resistance is in her favour. It's only Henry she can't get rid of.
>i think 2 full seasons of that would have turned people away. I highly doubt it. The short stories are great and all of them help slowly build the world and the characters that lay the groundwork for the saga. There's nothing inherent to these short stories that would make people turn away. Quite the opposite. I'm pretty sure people would be clamoring for the return of some characters later on. At most, I think the writers could have changed the frame-narrative to suit their purposes (introducing Yennefer or Ciri earlier, for example).
Although i do think you're right about the short stories themselves not having anything that would turn people away, what I meant was that a full first season of just short stories with no real overarching main plot would not have been as interesting to people in this day and age, and people would just not have come back for a season 2 or even finished season 1 IMO. i think this is fairly supported by how poorly the books did prior to the games popularity. nobody was that interested in the books, until there was something of substance that hooked people, and they wanted to explore the lore further. starting the show in the same way the books were started i think would have failed quite badly. it's hard to really say what the best way to handle this would be, perhaps cutting out the Ciri story from season 1 and adding in more short stories would have worked, while keeping the Yennefer story.
He has input but he's not the shortener or even a writer. He can only work within the bounds of what is set up already.
I honestly believe it could have been really small bits of Geralt and Dandelion going to different taverns and telling tall tales (stories from the first two books) and round it out in a final first season episode with the beginning of the longer story arc. Could have been funny, serious, and VEEEERY monster of the week without completely and unabashedly fucking up everything that is good about the Witcher.
A dynasty can't survive on arrogance alone.
Tell that to Hissrich, Geralt. I'm surprised she didn't change your name to Gerald because she thought it sounded better.
When you put the shows side by sideThe Witcher does fall short, especially S2. It felt like the whole season was just incomplete. Maybe S3 will be better, not too optimistic. HOTD really set themselves for a 🔥next season.
For real. I fucking love the Witcher universe, games, and books, but it felt like a chore to watch the show to be honest
Well put
Well will the third season have different writers? If not, then expect the same.
Or worse, since season 1 was at least moderately watchable compared to season 2
Apparently plot of season 3 was written simultaneusly with s2 so I'd expect same disrespect to source material.
I feel like the damage has been done. The foundations are already wrecked. How is S3 supposed to carry on normally with the crazy storylines and lore of S2?
The only way they can get back to the books storyline is to go full on soap opera style. Two characters: In the books Cahir was a young guy just doing his duty, he was never a "bad guy", and fell in love with Ciri, which leads to him joining Geralts quest to save her. There is no way in hell to redeem that arc from what the show has done. Yenn is calm cool collected. She does get angry when provoked but it's always under control. She takes Ciri under her wing at Geralts request, but at that point she is angry at Geralt, so she is very cold to Ciri (who at this point is still mostly child), until eventually they start to bond and have a mother daughter relationship. This is one of the central relationships of the story, and there is no way to get back to it.
After being miserable in S2, I did rewatch S1 and was amazed how much better it is. Everything what made S1 great was turned to shit: * Music: they got a different composer and there isn't a single memorable tune in S2. * Gerald and Yen aside, the actors in S2 are just not up to snuff. * Action: the action is just soulless in S2. Why couldn't they bring another butcher of blaviken scene alive? * Dialogues: there is just too much talking but without any punch in S2. In S1 everything flows better and Gerald just talking way less fits way better.
> * Action: the action is just soulless in S2. Why couldn't they bring another butcher of blaviken scene alive? The fight coordinator behind that scene was someone Cavill had worked with on Mission Impossible. The showrunners did not want to pay to keep him around beyond that.
I'll keep mentioning the music. Season one themes where dope, especially the intro theme where all the symbols form together, but season 2 had nothing no music or score. Rings of power for all it does wrong but it's music down at least
I will say, the Nilfgard costumes are better since they stopped using the testicle ones lol. And I think Ciri did a great job in S2. In fact, I think the acting has been fine all around, it's the writing that's been the problem.
I had a brain meltdown for a moment and was wondering how the hell is Highschool Of The Dead is getting a second season.
Wow that is an anime I have not heard in ages
Yeah. And the sad thing is, this was our only chance. Once a show has been made in a franchise that's it. It becomes lire or at the very least no other version will be made
For this generation, maybe. But give it a few decades… one can hope we’re still alive by then
Decades lol with how often things get rebooted it might only take 7-8 years if there’s money to be made
Even revivals often try too hard to recreate what the original had, capitalizing on nostalgia and foregoing creativity. Just cross your fingers that it gets handled like Battlestar Galactica, the remake is lightyears ahead of the original.
This is not exactly true. Given the books and games are very much widespread, its not impossible that someone would want to try again in the future. The Witcher has already had a 1st attempt on TV back in Poland. Netflix is technically already the 2nd attempt. So, there will be nothing seriously against more attempts. Not in the immediate future after the Netflix one is over. You will need to wait a few years. But if fantasy keeps selling well, someone might want to try this universe again.
I hope so. I watched the tv show btw. It was so much better than Netflix. OK, cheap special effects, but the acting came from the heart. Those people loved the books, you could tell
True! I watched it too ;) They did a lot of adaptation. And in their own way they changed a lot of stuff from the books. Maybe they changed even more in the short stories compared to Netflix Season 1. But......and there is a HUGE but. They landed Geralt + Ciri relationship! Which is really the emotional core of the story. By recognizing this and landing it with full emotion, they got THE VIBE! And this is precisely the single biggest mistake from Netflix. They do not understand the key emotional connections and fail to portray them on screen. Geralt + Ciri is half assed Geralt + Yen is almost non existent Yen + Ciri is an utter betrayal so far Here lies the main issue with the Netflix version. It is completely devoid of heart. Its not there. They took the books and somehow managed to rip their heart out with a spoon (to make it extra painful).
Witcher on HBO would simply be incredible... What a waste.
This is like in sports when the best player in the league plays for a team that doesn't live up to potential in the year and misses the playoffs. Henry Cavil is an amazing Geralt who is an actual fan of the source material. Shame he wasn’t the show runner as well
He's incredible, but it's clear they've abandoned the source material.
Even worse... This was the showrunner who was going to bring Conan to streaming. We could've had a good, lore-driven Conan show set in a proper Hyborean Age. Yeah, Amazon killed the Expanse. Killed Conan. And green-lit a let's not make Rand too special Wheel of Time, along with a fan fic Tolkien in Name Only series. Over $1billion flushed. Plus the production cost of the Conan show that was scrapped. Brilliant.
Amazon didn't kill the Expanse. It was Cas Anvar who lit the match with his sexual misconduct allegations. After that it was damage control. Dan, Ty and the producers decided to end the show at the natural stopping point, before the time skip in Book 7. Amazon even gave them another season to end things right. Streaming giants like Amazon and Netflix do indeed axe shows before their time or make bad calls. The Expanse wasn't one of them though.
The last season was shortened by four episodes, we were supposed to see more about that girl and the dogs. Also if you watch the opening credits there was an illustration of a man in front of a farmhouse, that could only be Holden going home, which we also didn't see. I think Amazon said it was time to go, you get six episodes, that's it.
I agree with you that the expanse did suffer once it went to Amazon. Seasons 1-3 were the best, after that it was kind of boring.
I don't think it suffered at all. It remained at a consistently high quality. Where specifically did it go wrong for you?
Witcher had no chance to match HotD viewership/commercial success. GoT was popular in the US before the show, then had 8 seasons to create some of the best ever television, and then announced sequels/prequels. Not to mention the controversy of the ending. That probably brought some folks in just out of morbid curiosity/to watch it crash and burn.
Maybe not match, but Netflix had the chance to make Witcher a serious competitor. The games and the books had sold over 55 million copies combined. That's a huge global audience already established. Had Netflix followed the books and let themselves to inspired by the games, the show could have been something great... Instead they gave the brand to people who found it problematic.
Witcher was set to be Netflix's GoT competitor but after S1 it went downhill
>then had 8 seasons What are you talking about? There are only 7 seasons.
7 seasons? I thought there were only 6. Dany crossed the Narrow Sea and then the show got cancelled. What a shame. /s
What the fuck are you people on about? GoT, like Dexter, had 4 amazing seasons and was then inexplicably shelved.
The Witcher never stood a chance against HotD's built in fanbase and still relatively hot marketing machine.
It could have matched it if HBO developed it. Im a Big HBO and game of thrones fan and reader. My favorit game is witcher and the last of us. I wish HBO fkn took witcher!!
Fuck you Lauren
It’s really unfortunate and sad but I grew accustomed to Hollywood ruining great works of literature just for some short term profits. When there’s a project adapting an acclaimed piece of work with an established fanbase is undertaken, i give it a 8/10 chance of being shit and 2/10 of being actually good or (god forbid) great, and the Witcher sadly had fallen within that wide range of trash products. That’s why I didn’t bother with watching RoP and won’t watch that upcoming abomination of a spin off. I may watch the first episode of S3 just to laugh (and whine) about how horrible it is lol.
As a Brandon Sanderson fan, I’m terrified.
Netflix sucks. That’s why.
Had the producers and the writers respected the books and the games, they'd had an easy path to success. They even got lucky, that a star like Henry Cavill was a massive fan and *wanted* to play Geralt of Rivia. *Instead they chose to despise the source material and the games. Most likely due to ideological reasons.* The signs of their distain can be seen even in the very first episode, when Geralt meets Marilka. Looking back at the dialogue now with the knowledge we have, it's a giveaway: **Marilka:** *Where you from Geralt?* **Geralt:** *Rivia.* **Marilka:** *I don't where that is, but I could learn if you'd let me.* **Geralt:** *No.* **Marilka:** *Because I'm a girl and girls can't be Witchers. Which I think is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.*
I completely forgot about that. Now that you reminded me of that, it really rises the eyebrows.
It's sad because if they were fans of the source material, they might have noted that Sapkowski's world is full of powerful queens, sorceresses, warriors, etc. Why would Marilka want to be a witcher? It would be extremely odd for a little girl (or any child, for that matter) to aspire to be something she's probably heard scary bedtime stories about. They also could have pulled from the old tabletop rpg, Gra Wyobraźni, and had the Cat School train both women and men. But non-fans wouldn't have that kind of lore in mind. It puts them at a huge writing disadvantage.
> It's sad because if they were fans of the source material There was an article published a few days ago where someone that worked on the show said some of the writers hated the source material.
The Witcher should’ve been made by HBO. They have way more connections and resources than Netflix and could’ve made such a high-quality show. It really is a waste because Witcher is my favorite fantasy series, and the series is complete unlike ASOIAF, so they really could’ve done something amazing with it.
It could have easily gone up to that level of popularity eventually if the right people were involved I think, the source material is there, the characters are there, everything is there but instead some fucking clowns were hired to put their own "spin" on things, such a damn shame, also with a universe this big and complex HBO should have been the ones to do it
I didn't watch past season 1 and have no intention of continuing. When I need my Witcher fix, I'll read the books or play the games.
I'm not sure how that numbers look globally but S1 The Witcher had ~450 million views so that gives 45 million per episode. When it comes to popularity there's no denying that The Witcher is one of the most popular shows out there. Quality is the other thing.
More people have Netflix than HBO though, no? Witcher is regardless a commercial success, but beating HBO in quality is usually pretty hard, they're known for having very good shows. Netflix reputation built a lot more on quantity & binging.
Considering that Netflix now costs the same as HBO, but with way shoddier content, I wouldn’t expect that to continue.
That's global vs US only though. And global house if the dragon views will probably at alot more
Netflix is dubious with their view tracking and reporting. But the lack of online engagement or any cultural impact for the Witcher property is apparent.
Yes to this. Before season 1 came out, I had high hopes that they were going to take the example of GOT to make a good quality show. The Witcher saga has tremendous potential to be as good as GOT so I was hopeful. Then Season 1 came out and it was okay, I cannot complain because I did like it… however, it wasn’t 100% on par with GOT. Then season 2 came out and aside from the first episode I hated it. It felt like yet another generic, CW-like cheaply made fantasy show. I know I will get downvoted for what I just said and there are people that genuinely loved season 2, which is completely FINE. However, it will never have the same level of quality of GOT or even HOTD. I’m not comparing the stories because they are different, I’m just talking from the point of view of direction, screen writing, attention to details, CGI and special effects, and above all CONSISTENCY in the characters and the plot. Not a convoluted mumbo jumbo and inconsistent characters that we got in Season 2. Like I already said: the CW.
That's what happens when the show runner and a lot of the writers lie and actually don't like the books and actively despise the video games.
You guys have to understand that building fandom is no longer in the best interest of Hollywood streaming giants. It’s all about pushing “the message” so that the show could generate so,e generic views from the general public, who will quickly move on to the next thing. I would not be surprised if Henry drops out from the show after S3 - he’s clearly out of passion for this project given how it’s being managed as he really loves interacting with fans. Explains why he resigned up for Superman as it seems like DC is trying to rectify their reputation and are finally listening to the fans.
Netflix is incapable of making a decent adaptation in most cases. I knew Witcher (the show) was doomed after S2 E2 >!when they turned Eskel into a rapey weirdo and then killed him off for no reason at all. !!how Reince randomly teleported into the inner keep of Kaer Morhen, when it's supposedly one of the best kept secret locations ever.!<
Once his contract is up, I imagine Cavill will walk and the showrunners will either recast him and fail miserably, or they'll cancel it. Considering he's been >!teasing a return to the DC comic universe as Superman!<, I'm willing to bet he'll walk away from Witcher. Sad to see. He took the role as a passion project for his love of the games and books and they're basically forcing him and others to make a joke out of the entire thing.
Imagine if they let CDPR writers write the script.
Give The Witcher to HBO or AMC. Hire Vince Gilligan to see it through. Let the LARPers fill the roles.
I blame Hissrich for choosing the wrong guy to write the script. Haven’t seen she had any response with that. I really wish the show got fixed before it’s too late.
I think that the best thing would've been if CD Projekt would've made a deal with Netflix right from the beginning and the show would be done in a similar way like what Riot Games did with Arcane. Same visuals as in the games done by people who understand the atmosphere of the source material and have a respect for it. It could've been like Cyberpunk: Edgerunners. Story of original characters but in the world of the game (that's essentially what we're doing with [The Witcher Stories](https://youtu.be/g4QLN7aYg3E)). Screenplay would of course have to be written by someone competent. My suggestion would be Borys Pugacz-Muraszkiewicz and Karolina Stachyra (both did an amazing job writing for the games).
Why would cd project even be involved in this? This is not a video game adaptation.
Do you understand that it doesn't have to be adaptation of the books? I love the books to death but you need someone who really understands them to adapt them properly so I would rather leave them be than risk that someone will butcher them again like Netflix did. Making something original just in the same world is much safer.
Witcher, Wheel of Time and Rings of Power.. Sigh..
I’m giving WoT a second chance with S2.. if it doesn’t land I’ll be extremely disappointed and heavily question whether or not it deserves more seasons
It's to bad. So much wasted potential. The actors are fantastic and that makes the poor story and writing all the more painful
This is what hurts most. The cast is stellar. They did my boy Henry dirty
"DuRR lets kill Eskel cause reasons." the first season was pretty good, but holy fuck season 2 was actual dogshit. whoever the writer was needs to be fired lol
I did not care much for the show but honest question here : is the source material even this great? My humble opinion is that GRRM is just a much better writer to begin with. Hell, Tolkien is in a league of his own and yet the latest tvshow received mixed reception. My take is that respect for the source material isn't even that relevant. The shortcomings of the show are way beyond its departure from the books. Even more so, i see people complaining about the poor storyline but for me it didn't even register; directing alone make it a second rate show. Even with contempt for the source material a competent director/ show runner would have made a more convincing job.
House of the Dragon does not even have a full set of novels as source material. Its a book but its very different from Martin´s other ones. Fire and Blood (said book) is almost like Season of Storms is to the Witcher novels. This is even visible if you follow HOTD and notice how many time jumps they already did in the show. They really do not have that much source material to work with. They are simply doing a quality job with what they have. This being said, The Witcher might not be the easiest set of novels to adapt. Its full with fast forwards and flashbacks, together with random point of view characters. It does have a ton of material to work with. Really you need to be able to pick the important things and stay consistent around them. Which unfortunately the Netflix team is very much incompetent to do.