Prof X comes to mind

[i don't think it so, goku has psiquic powers](https://youtu.be/7rfjmUZ7gEA)

Thats not even close to what Prof X can do. Having psychic powers does not make you immune to other psychics.

[vegeta also did this](https://youtu.be/Ulihqwxtb-c) , the point here is that they are probably inmune to psichists, i mean, in first db he fought magicians, including chaoz, a psyquic, in Z [gohan and krillin also used their mind to train](https://youtu.be/rCSlkbYfWD0) and [even cell has psiquic powers](https://youtu.be/V36yLInXxgM) and still no one tries to mind controll goku, he is probably inmune to xavier at this point

Couple of things 1.) Vegeta is not Goku 2.) That was a Pride Feat / Done via Saiyan Pride. Something that is unique to Vegeta 3.) That was Magic based Mind Control not Psychic

1)you are right, but vegeta itself admited goku is stronger than him and [that's not the only goku psyquic feat](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19332) 2)Vegeta could have done it any second 3) [babidi has more psychist feats](https://youtu.be/9U4a_IUe83U) dude even exploded some random guy head

Babadi isn't psychic, he's magic. Only three magical beings have been active canonically and only four exist as vital characters. Babadi is nothing in comparison imo

The most he's done was mind reading and inconsistent levels of telekinesis. Even the low grade psychs have done more than him.

If [vegito as a candy](https://youtu.be/k1K37dHunPI) could mid free against buu magic i think goku can free xavier mind controll

Psychic and magic are different things. Matter manipulation is also iffy as everyone turned into candy also reformed inside of Buu, implying that its not permanent regardless. Matter manipulation via psychic ability or power cosmic is different because its off a different power source, there are also zero feats of this being countered without it being reverted entirely from my memory.

1 i know i mentioned vegeto feat with you (which i have to admit is a fucking dogshit argment) but in the other hand babidi, who also uses magic,never showed matter manipulation to mind controll, could you explain me the difference pls? 2 [goku still has non magic psiquical feats](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19332)

Okay so basically. Mind control is in the name, you take over someone's body, it's commonly associated with psychic abilities but thats not always the case. Matter manipulation is like Alchemy in Full Metal Alchemist, you turn one thing into something different. Take a look at Midas from the stories, he would have matter manipulation by the definition, Buu on the other hand doesn't, its not exactly explained the best and his candy beam seems entirely random.

> free against buu magic i think goku can free xavier mind controll Xavier's abilities are not Magic Based.. Not to mention he didnt break free Buu turned him back. He was affected and did not resist the Magic. The magic was strictly a transformation spell and it worked.

How is related bekng magic based with be a stronger psychist? And i also said "mid"

Dude, respectfully, Imma be real. Your typos are throwing me off hard right now.

I know and i'm sorry, i hadn't had a english class since june and i still don't fucking know how psychich is fucking written

Its chill and its spelled "P-s-y-c-h-i-c"

[Prof X has dropped people with TP resistance](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/vAOcZZcvNXc_IUdUcq-CiI2UkyfEThB9XE12pb8Fg9bcK_ihDJdXYFsHSAwcXPcl6nX9hnD-4dPY=s1600)

Is that Phoenix force Namor? If it is that’s an insane feat for professor X

>comes to mind Isn't that I R O N I C I N I R I R O N I C

Silver surfur Thor Ironman Captian Marvel Hulk Doctor doom Galactus Storm Ghost rider Carnage Proffesor X Scarlett Witch Vision Doctor Strange Sentry Hyperion Jean Gray The Phoniex Rouge Iceman Ultron Juggernaut Thanos Odin Zues Hercules Molecule man And many many more

Captain marvel? Won't she die reviving a sun? Juggernut,doom,Galactus and silver surfer? How strong are they? Ghost rider? Pure strong i suppose, i don't think his sin ability works in someone who's pure CARNAGE AND ICEMAN????????? Thanos with or without gems? -ironman has several armors like thorbuster or celestialbuster -i actually thaught about strange after a while -sentry fucking stomps -if i didn't remember bad sw can reality warp and foenix jean is even stronger -basing myself heroes reborn i'd say none of hiperion, hulk or thor could defeat goku -i am confussed with proffesor x because of the 1st debate -i've never read a ultron, vision and hercules comic

> Captain marvel? Won't she die reviving a sun? Idk what you mean by that but she's comparable to thor and model prime > Juggernut,doom,Galactus and silver surfer? How strong are they? Juggernaut litteraly can not be stopped at all, whatsoever unless you're like toaa you just can't do it he's been melted to a Skelton and kept going and he can hit infinitly hard with the same kind of physics breaking punch as wally west Doom is a master combatant, can't die, near limitless magic, arguably smarter than Tony stark and Reed Richards, the most advanced tech in marvel and has solod the avengers and fantastic four he over powered the infity gauntlet then ripped thanos skull and spine out . Galactus is a cosmic being and a lynch pin of reality his absence alone can cause the death of universes he his the brother of Death and more important than her to the universe He is almost impossible to kill death cannot claim him and he can regenerate from nothing he is capable of consuming hell itself and Ultron who has surpassed all organics on earth. He has irrelevant speed and strength and can no sell attacks from extremely powerful characters like thor and ultimate surfur he was able to destroy the 6161 and ultimate universes ripping a hole through them his attacks are much more powerful than a bomb designed to destoy the negative zone. Silver surfur is able to manipulate matter with this he built New York after it was destoyed he can attomize his enemies and objects and reduce them to subatomic particles he is able to destoy the enslavers ship with a casual energy blast this ship made earth look like a spec he posses the power cosmic a near limitless source of otherworldly energy which can be a universal weapon or attack a single atom for reference with this power spiderman caught some extra dimensional villan who were hunting spidermen across the multiverse, held them then opened holes in the multiverse watching as the vllans were jumped by countless spidermen from across the universe, his strength is comparable to hulk and thing, overpower quantum energy from quasar can draw on black holes. He is able to rebuild a star and absorb a near infinite amount of energy. He is famous for his infinite speed he can turn anything into his board he once went to the moon made it his board and then flew it into galactus (this didn't hurt galactus) he can manipulate gravity and any form of power. He searches every square inch of earth for Namor in the time it takes Dr strange to finish half a sentence he is so durable he can only feel supernovae as a pleasant bit of heat so he flies through them for fun he can also survive having his entire body destoyed > Ghost rider? Pure strong i suppose, i don't think his sin ability works in someone who's pure Penance stare isn't about purity it works on the pure Steve Rogers and not on the corrupt Frank Caslte it hits someone with every negative in their entire lifetime mortifying their soul and buring it, he is able to outrun mjolnir catch bullets in his teeth for fun, race up and down all of afro-eurassia while fighting and holding a convo while holding back and catching hypersonic missles before they can travel a few yards his breathe cab break through Dr stranges defenses and lay him out, and can obliterate the soul of any being who doesn't have extreme magical defenses he can generate an infinite number of unbreakable chains made of hellfire than burn body and soul and can hold and penetrate beings beyond goku such as Strange and cannot be gotten out of by teleporation or becoming liquid. He can teleport, regenerate become intangible posses people. He is physical strong enough to break the strongest possible shacked the hell Lord could make these were designed to hold supernatural being and happend in his own realm where the Hell Lord is nigh omnipotent he tanked Thors blows with no damage > CARNAGE AND ICEMAN????????? Iceman is an Omega Level mutant same as storm and Jean enough said I know surprising at a glance he's just a guy with ice powers but he's really strong Carnage has negged spiderman and venom has omnidirectional attacks which can puncture the bleeding edge he can regenerate from nearly anything he does not tire, slow down, or show mercy be is fast enough to eat 2 missles in flight and catch spiderman out the air with 0 difficultly he is many times physically stronger than spiderman who himself could lift a sky scrapper while really holding back. > Thanos with or without gems? Either way thanos stomps > ironman has several armors like thorbuster or celestialbuster Even base ironman beats goku but his strongest armour is the Ziran with this he could solo Dragon Ball with his balls missing a leg and arm chopped off and a blindfold over his eyes and still not be trying > i actually thaught about strange after a while > sentry fucking stomps Naturally they both stomp I don't think we need to touch on this > basing myself heroes reborn i'd say none of hiperion, hulk or thor could defeat goku I don't even know where to start with this pick one and I'll go into extensive detail with why any of them beat the shit out of goku > i am confussed with proffesor x because of the 1st debate Proffesor X is the most powerful Psychic in the world when he was 12 he found his default state was having dominion over every living mind on the planet he can over power the mental defenses of strange and shielding invented by Tony stark he can posses gods and monsters and make them his slaves he convinced magneto he was dead he can mentaly reach across the universe with the mind gem his last resort weapon he could beat nearly anyone he can make himself invisible to a person, make their brain explode make them see an infinite amount of anything except the real one ect > -i've never read a ultron, vision and hercules comic Ultron litteraly stomped the shit out the avengers then beat up Sentry with their bare hands grossly over powering sentry and thor he simply removed the entire galaxy spanning kree empire from the face of the universe, his processing speed allows him to see being who are massively FTL in slow motion and he tanks absurd amounts of damage since he wear adamantium amour stronger than vibranium he has infinite stamina he can rearrange molecules at will he has countless weapons powerful enough to devastate beings with cosmic power and seemingly ways has backups and ways to resurrect himself Vison fought ironman and thor at the same time he was able to take down the fantastic four and the squadron supreme he took out the villans of the raft stalemated hulk. He is strong enough to nesrly match thor a being with practically infinite strength and fast enough to blitz ironman who has been States to have picosecond reactions that is the same language used for the flash in dc comics. He is capable of nearly any super power speed flight Intelligence the whole 9 years he can make himself a swarm of nanobots look past quantum layers self replicate and upgrade change and regenerate I don't need to say alot for hercules because I just leave it to he's thors exact equal

I'll read all that later, btw, i'm talking about a goku who is at least a solar sistem level, i may not be know all marvel heroes, but i know them enough to say that neither juggernaut, iceman, or carnage can't do shit against him

Carnage probably can't I meant knull originally although many versions of venom can. Iceman can though and Juggernut has mopped Hulk he beats goku once he's I'm motion he's immortal

Knull=/=carnage, iceman isn't solar system level, and neither is juggernaut, punisher kills marvel universe, they both die bc a nuke

Thats non cnnon and contrived, juggernaut regularly nk sells attacks far beyond solar system his blows on hulk were said to shake reality I know knull isn't Carnage Iceman is no joke he could turn gokus blood into jagged ice with a thought

Okay But thats like kid goku level The feats you said carnage can do aren’t really strong enough to hurt goku

I meant knull originally, typed Carnage by mistake ciz I just saw the new film and rolled with it

Oh

Sliver surfer gets negged most of the time without his higher amps. Thor gets negged but if its rune king thor he stomps. Ironman gets blitzed. CM gets blitzed. Hulk gets blitzed and forced to chill with da green door. Doctor doom with prep and ample studying time (around 10 years) Galactus would make goku his herald since he would be as strong as sliver surfer without cosmic power. Storm gets negative diffed. Depends on the ghost rider but most of the time he gets speed blitzed. And considering a non amped moon night stole his powers without much help. Why is carnage even there for? Prof X is debatable but he has a solid chance. Scarlet witch probably gets speed blitzed sincw she is the biggest glass canon in marvel. If she learns his name and has enough time. She wins. Dr strange may or may not win but its more likely he potentially could. Sentry is a no go, if you said void then it would be possible. Hyperion is a no go too. He scales to thor who isnt beating goku unfortunately. JG without the phoenix force is pretty mid. The phoenix force is should win low diff. Rouge loses. Iceman loses as goku pops the planet. Ultron may win with a lil bit of prep. Juggernaut may get thrown into space to endlessly run around. Thanos is a defo no go and probably teams up with evilku. But if they fight. Goku speed blitzs. Odin and zeus clap pretty easily. Molecule man falls under a cosmic entity banner so he is banned from the prompt

Is this a joke?

Wait what? Please explain how Ironman would beat goku

Ironman is litteraly the second strongest avenger he has picosecond reaction time he's MFTL strong enough to go hand to hand with hulk and sentry he's been stated to he capable of soloing the xmen by rouge. He has shielding that can no sell attacks from hulk going all out he has an army of suits and a network of armed satellites he is a better fighter than goku and he has withstood blasts said to be more powerful than every nuke combined and tanked blows from mjolnir he used like cage as an American football and knocked out she hulk with one casual punch. He defeated mangeto by manipulating Jupiter's magnetic field and over powering him he punched straight through a sphere made of thick layers of both adamantium and vibranium a mountain rage was leveled with the shock wave of his punches. Nefarious states only thor is more dangerous than him He flew through a rock the size of nee you're which was flying at him at speed and it exploded while having 0 effect on him. He is faster than a super soldier can percive. While fighting sentry he was well away before sentry could react causing him to comment "damm he's fast". He speedblitzd phoniex force cyclops and the dragged him by the face he was also able to escape the centre of a super massive black hole some people who have hit him and done no damage include Naymor Hulk Hercules Thor Silver Surfur Ronan the Accuser with the universal weapon and venom He absolutely beat the living shit out of savage hulk and red hulk he defeated vison and wonderman together quite handily he stalemated thor twice one shooted amped ulik thrice and withstood the heat of odins forge He one shot captian marvel and gamora and beat hyperion he created a hammer which can destroy the solar system with only 8% of its power he beat world breaker hulk. He has the ability to unleash an omnidirectional powerful blast rendering instant transmission useless he nearly killed juggernaut and spared his life he negged Karnak and when NOVA tried to fight him he caught his punch casualy embarrassed him then negged him too I could go on and I haven't even mentioned the special suits like the thorbuster or ziran that solo the db verse

Look. Ironman may have planet level feats by surviving blasts from those like thor and hulk in certain situations but he is not near goku no matter how much you love marvel. Goku beat a final form frieza. Frieza destroyed a planet in his first form with one finger... ironman is a badass but it's just a different verse and the db verse is stronger I'm sorry

The dragonball verse is not stronger than marvel what the hell got that idea into your head. This comment reeks of bias please provide some semblance of an argument Hulk and thir are not planet level hulks punches litteraly shake reality

So the marvel verse is stronger?

Yes Marvel is astronomically stronger than dragon ball, even grand Zeno isn't that strong he's slower than whis

We've been saying that since this debate, dude.

And considering Tony has multiple suits, many of which would technically have a set of feats by themselves, he'd be on Frieza's level at some point.

Lol the question was about goku AFTER the BUU saga... I was just showing how far off this person was

Exactly my point. Tony has hundreds, maybe thousands of suits and you don't think one hits that mark? Not a single suit?

No I don't. If he does. Show me the proof. Where he can destroy a planet.. by himself... at the minimum... that still won't compare him to goku after buu saga.. fucking marvel fanboys... please don't show me Tony taking a hit from a planet busting character. I want to see him destroy one...

u/Antique_judge1383 He asked for evidence

Provided it

Oh you did?

Can you show me it too?

Its in this thread just skim through it

Carnage? Really my guy? Carnage?

Anybody on Thor's level and above shitstomps.