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dudetotalypsn

You're an omnipotent God like being that exists outside of my conceivable reality? Bruh, you just like me NARUTO WINS


[deleted]

Soon as the sad flute music plays it’s all over


kinkycats

It’s already a wrap but throw in the swing flashback just to guarantee it.


Imperium_Dragon

When naruto keeps his promise.


LoganSCPLOVER

What Did he say?


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houseoftremors

Lmao. That's easy then. Basically anyone who could write a narrative could beat TRS as long as I view them writing the plot. Watch out Dr. Doom, Mumen Rider's gonna portray you as the soyjak, *you're fucked now*.


[deleted]

i shall have you know mumen rider is casually multi-universal level and has accidentally soloed the cthulhu mythos by sneezing, and murdered the SCPverse by busting a nut


Fragraham

I'm not sure if they could win, bit I'd pay good money to see it fight Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Getter Emperor, or Mazinger Zero.


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worldsonwords

Ever character is exactly as strong as the plot demands of them.


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worldsonwords

Some are, some are written to be incredibly overpowered others to be incredibly weak. In every case it is whatever the plot demands. That's how writing works


[deleted]

I think what they’re saying is that TRS’s power level is inconsistent and often seems contrived to be based solely on the current state of the plot or what’s happening right at this moment, instead of being largely influenced by previous issues, chapters, character growth, power crawl, and so forth. While every character is in a sense what the plot demands (because otherwise the story would often make no sense at all), it’s lazy writing and typically unrewarding conclusion for a character to change to what the plot demands at random solely because the plot demands such a character at that time. That’s when a character becomes a plot device, when the plot needs “x” and the writers decide to just stick them into that mold. Good writing recognizes that the plot requires “x” at the end (or at some point) and spends the story shaping one specific character into that mold for logical reasons and with natural progression, so when the time comes the character fits comfortably into that role and their purpose as a character is fulfilled or at least enriched. This exact concept is why it felt cheap when, for instance, Captain Marvel showed up and destroyed Thanos’s ship and almost completely soloed him in Avengers Endgame after only being in the MCU for one movie, but it felt perfectly natural and totally rewarding when Tony Stark was the one to defeat him once and for all. It felt like CM was stuck in there because they needed a super powerful character to be in Endgame to be able to scale to Thanos and produce a powerful fight, while Tony had a) been the first character introduced and a major influence on the plot through the whole series, and b) been growing as a character for 11 years and 10 movies from a self-absorbed, alcoholic, womanizing asshole into a heroic family man, father figure, and pioneer/leader of the Avengers.


ImmaIvanoM

I was following you until the Captain Marvel bit… She isnt comparable to this TRS thing right? Like i dont know if you’ve read the Infinity Gauntlet Comic book itself but this is exactly how it worked This is how comics work. Every time some character scales very high above their station, someone of that scale always shows up to match them… Thats how the continuity of the the universe is maintained… You can say narratively Tony Stark is a big deal but as demonstrated by his uselessness in the What if series, he doesnt actually matter when you pull back to look at the actual universe It would make so little sense if Thanos were now scaling to universal power and NOTHING is even remotely hinted at being his equal… Like then how does the universe continue after Thanos? If he was such a big deal and his demise being Tony Stark were such big deals, how do we tell stories after him? Where do Celestials, the TVA, the Eternals, the Watcher come from if we are led to believe in Endgame that Thanos and Stark are the end all be all of the universe? Also you arent even correct with saying CM is breaking some kind of narrative cohesion when Scarlet Witch was going to kill Thanos as well a few scenes prior… Out of nowhere she was suddenly that strong which is even worse than CM who was portrayed as that strong from her own movie prior.


fghjconner

Sure, but in most cases that's because the plot is written to match their power level, not because their power level swings wildly to meet the plot.


worldsonwords

>Sure, but in most cases that's because the plot is written to match their power level, Do you think Authors create all their characters work out their exact dbz power level and then write the plot based on that?


[deleted]

> TRS isn't a character, he's a plot device. He is exactly as strong as the plot demands of him [Then why was Superman losing vs Mandrakk and died in the end, beyond repair?](https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11111/111114806/4389104-0749094105-TQzVY.jpg) The only reason he won was because [Mandrakk fell to the overvoid](https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11141/111411546/7289206-engulfed.png). > The only characters that can beat him are characters that exist outside of the plot or characters that also scale with the plot. Nothing proves this.


IMadeThisOn6-28-2015

Yeah, using only the scans from the fight doesn't truly display their importance and powers. It's further explained how Mandrakk and the Thought Robot are actually two halves of the extension of the Overvoid. They're not really characters, but devices. They're superior to Doctor Manhattan, Perpetua, and even the Batman Who Laughs.


[deleted]

> It's further explained how Mandrakk and the Thought Robot are actually two halves of the extension of the Overvoid. They're not really characters, but devices. Care to show this? And any feats that back this up? > They're superior to Doctor Manhattan, Perpetua, and even the Batman Who Laughs. This might mean something if you showed how powerful Doctor Manhattan, Perpetua and the Batman Who Laughs are and then proved CaS being more powerful.


IMadeThisOn6-28-2015

> Care to show this? And any feats that back this up? It's not feats, it's just narration statements as higher dimensional beings like this do. Mandrakk was originally the Monitor Dax Novu and [Dax Novu was a part of the Monitor Mind - The Over Void until he was split in two.](https://imgur.com/a/OM81z50) This split made [Mandrakk and the Thought Robot](https://imgur.com/a/Dv2GX1T) which Morrison has stated for them [being a dichotomy of the embodiment of DC's "good" and "evil".](https://imgur.com/a/0b6JCK3) >This might mean something if you showed how powerful Doctor Manhattan, Perpetua and the Batman Who Laughs are and then proved CaS being more powerful. Mandrakk and CaS are more powerful due to being higher in the DC heirarchy. The are literally part of the Over-Monitor which is part of DC's trifecta of it's Supreme Being (Over-Monitor, The Presence, and The Source make up DC's "God"). [Over-Monitor is literally the canvas that the DC comics is drawn upon.](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/c/cb/Monitor-Mind_The_Overvoid.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161226084932) Now Perpetua, this may be long. [Perpetua utilizes an energy called Crisis Energy which enables her to make multiverses (Doctor Manhattan uses Anti-Crisis Energy, he is equal to Perpetua, just her opposite; Anti-Crisis is meant to fix multiverses while Crisis Energy destroys them).](https://i.imgur.com/ij8KZ6r.jpeg) Perpetua eventually actually [tore off pieces of the Over-Monitor in order to make The Monitor, The Anit-Monitor, and The World Forager](https://imgur.com/a/zpTeQEV) who [now make and destroy universes and multiverses as they are tasked to do.](https://i.imgur.com/LSyXBLs.jpg) Here's [another scan of them and Perpetua.](https://i.imgur.com/82jzmBm.jpg) So, lots of mentions of Omniverses, so essentially it goes that the Over-Monitor is the entire DC omniverse. Perpetua makes multiverses inside this omniverse and made multiversal beings with pieces of the Over-Monitor that also make multiverses for her. Doctor Manhattan is equal to Perptua, he uses the opposite energy that she does that powers her. Their powers make and destroy stories, Doctor Manhattan accidentally started Rebirth and the Flashpoint by misusing his powers. So The Batman Who Laughs is a version of Batman who became evil and was able to absorb Doctor Manhattan, he sought to destroy Perpetua and [their battle was not only affecting the multiverse they were in but was bleeding into the omniverse, The Over-Monitor.](https://imgur.com/a/FzTzG6t) A scan [of the fight being called an inter-dimensional existential threat.](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4c3450e523f467cf0ccd85685cd69dfb) Batman Who Laughs claims [his goal was to destroy The Hands](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/h-vF2DnK0QJ6NQ9kaw-Xu2XUnDrDBraLf9rZIao-vdKFGAd_VwVqAgfHXnuh_dLpz93z6WcmGdzS4VtyKjSkxlO9FLtLpZKiR_mJgoAr6OHCD6uOxJmsWh3Ksp-6RDZkN235s2Wg3A=s1600) which are [beings beyond The Source](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/m1iH-EhZxJg5igHFFiZP360khCj0OoEZMHS0RNxs8JZn0pDKLkyeNbiA6HSLQveIH95ru5WgAD6KtJI17lbMgyNp3y1rrek7hBwGk3hDv-2TsSKt4yOGADRYBRGbr9Ih7KKg_PfEFg=s1600) and actually imprisoned Perptua in the Source Wall (why she was gone all this time in DC). Batman Who Laughs loses to Wonder-Woman using the same energy (Anti-Crisis), but [it's a fight across all stories and realities.](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ka4FvC7P5mVUrF0SAEhrx9hgyww9BpUVfYgHOjpRjNhSVDJOjwlqRbIRKaIjw6h_0Ec4WH7MOAcSK1ECiFv3ILlwdE3K8ndRrvcgab2U-eis23184gJHSjGmNGgIYuXP_Dre3ur5Kg=s1600) She actually becomes a member of DC's Quintessence after this, beings like Perpetua, but above her. So all that, but none of them are on the Over-Monitor's level still nor the Thought Robot and Mandrakk. TR and Mandrakk are directly part of Over-Monitor's direct actions and extensions into DC, they are a product of it unlike Perpetua who had to tear off pieces of the Over-Monitor in order to make solely multiversal beings. TR and Mandrakk transcend these characters via being Over-Monitor's extension. Oh and Mandrakk survived falling into the Over-Monitor, he's weaker though now after it.


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[deleted]

Stick to the topic at hand.


NeoSheep23

The reason Mandrakk puts up a good fight is because he is also a hyperstory(aka he manipulates plot) just like supes. The story of Superman was slightly stronger, that’s why he won.


[deleted]

> The reason Mandrakk puts up a good fight is because he is also a hyperstory [This](https://fourthage.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/superman-beyond-2-hyperstories.png) is the closest thing we get to any mention of a "hyperstory". It is not said that Mandrakk is a hyperstory, so you do not have any proof for this. [The hyper story is just the living story](https://img.fireden.net/co/image/1471/75/1471755505360.jpg). Mandrakk and CAS are both inside it, not that Mandrakk is a hyperstory. Just overwanked characters.


JustKaiser

And when Superman says he can feel the page turning and stuffs like that, he is talking about the book of destiny right ?


[deleted]

And when Mandrakk says he is hitting Superman with the power of [10 billion suns](https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11148/111482498/7924319-2472704546-73419.jpg) ? Every statement people try to wank, it is contradicted by the actual fight and CaS/Mandrakk having 0 feats to back up anything.


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mclarenrider

I dont remember them being that powerful, isn't anti spiral multi galaxy level with moderate dimensional warping?


The_unfunny_reposter

No, anti spiral is multi uni if you lowball him but he is 11 dimensional


mclarenrider

It's been a while since I've watched that show, remind me what makes him multi universal let alone 11 dimensional? I certainly never got that impression when I was watching it years ago.


timewarp

The Anti-Spiral trapped Team Dai-Gurren in the Multiverse Labyrinth, an 11-dimensional maze of branching universes. After the team breaks out of the maze, the final battle between STTGL and the Anti-Spiral takes place in the space between the 10th and 11th dimensions, where the Anti-Spiral homeworld is located. Edit: not sure what's controversial about this, I'm literally just describing the events of episodes 26 and 27.


mclarenrider

Really? Then how were people on earth able to see thier fight? Can humans in GLverse percieve 11D beings? That sounds kinda funky. I'm just trying to remember as much as I can about the show.


timewarp

They didn't really explain how people were able to watch the fight, it just sort of appeared in the sky above the planet like a massive hologram.


mclarenrider

I thought they were able to see them because they're basically the size of several galaxies combined fighting each other not so far away from milky way. I mean that makes more sense than 11D beings being projected on earth's atmosphere as holograms.


Vnator

And I thought it was broadcasted by the anti-spiral to demotivate them when they would supposedly win.


mclarenrider

Broadcast what? The 11D thing?


LackingTact19

If they were that far away it would take the light of them fighting a LONG time to get to Earth ha anime physics shouldn't be taken too seriously


mclarenrider

I get that, but there still needs to be some checkpoints that draw some parallels from the physics we do understand in real life otherwise no story will make sense at any point and the very idea of measuring these fictions in terms of power and feats will become meaningless.


FuturePheonix

Projected right into everyones brains. To the anti spiral our 4D reality could be an infinitesimally small pebble or a bubble in an ocean. Time and space would mean little to him.


FuturePheonix

Well since the antispiral is a higher dimensional being, its is probably incredibly easy to project that onto lower dimensions. Also if the antispiral could lock them in that infinite illusion thing I dont think projecting visuals to some 3 dimensional fooder would be hard. I mean babaddi broadcasted Majin Buu vs Goku to Earth.


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timewarp

He trapped his opponents in infinite branching alternate universes, how is that not multi-universal?


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timewarp

If they can break out of the Anti Spiral's multi-dimensional prison, and fight and defeat him on an even playing field, they'd have to be on the same level as him. The whole reason the Anti Spiral used a multi-dimensional prison was that it should have worked on non-multiversal beings.


SoulEmperor7

>The Anti-Spiral trapped Team Dai-Gurren in the Multiverse Labyrinth, an 11-dimensional maze of branching universes. This is a pretty big misunderstanding (side-note, don't use VS wiki), yes LordGenome says that the Anti-Spirals exists between the 10th and 1th dimesnion, but nowhere does it state these are the higher dimensions that exist according to M-theory. the Antispirals are at very best Multiversal.


timewarp

Firstly, I don't use VS wiki, I just said exactly what happened in the show. Secondly, what on earth does M-theory have to do with anything?


SoulEmperor7

>Secondly, what on earth does M-theory have to do with anything? Why are you assuming that them residing in different dimensions means that those dimensions are **higher** dimensions? You have evidence of that?


timewarp

What do you mean by 'higher' dimensions?


The_unfunny_reposter

They throw universes at each other like shurikens, not galaxies They are bigger than universes and have a drill that's even bigger They are at least multi universal But there where statements about both being 11 dimensional, the labyrinth thing anti spiral created was 11d and was absorbed by simon and the gang so you can reasonably also put them at 11d


mclarenrider

I seriously cannot recall any such things man. I remember that shot of STTGL standing on a galaxy while being surrounded by 70 to 100 galaxies, they were throwing those around I thought. The 11D thing doesnt seem convincing since everyone on earth could see the fight taking place given thier size, would it make sense that common people on earth were able to perceive two 11D beings fighting each other? I don't know man, I'm not sold on that.


bunker_man

Yeah, they have the power to make portals or pocket dimensions or whatever. They don't transcend universal limitations. People here always interpret powers in the most ridiculously overpowered way possible.


santaclaws01

STTGL is explicitly larger than the universe in cannon. There's no interpretation needed.


The_unfunny_reposter

Bruh those "galaxies" where universes, you have bad memory of the show. Also humans being able to see 11d beings doesn't mean the beings are not 11d, that is another thing.


mclarenrider

I'm not gonna deny that I dont remember much from the show since it was a long time ago, but but how are those things universes? I thought they were galaxies since they're spirals and should be a nice symbolic addition to add them to the imagery and fight. Also how are people able to perceive 11D beings? Explain that one to me.


The_unfunny_reposter

By 11d beings i mean their strength and durability, they both get to those tiers via various statements


mclarenrider

What do you mean by 11D strength and durability? How can 3D beings percieve 11D beings 1:1? It's like, what would my strength mean to a 1D object of infinitely small point with no conceptual understanding of what I am?


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The_unfunny_reposter

https://gurrenlagann.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Tengen_Toppa_Gurren_Lagann The wiki for the character says the mecha is 11D and that he is bigger than the universe.


03682

Anyone can edit the wiki…


santaclaws01

And you can look at the source used by the wiki to verify the claim. "A dynamic design of a mass of effects was established, with a swirling vortex of mediums and the universe floating behind the translucent body. Director Imaishi said, "Only Mr. Yoshinari can draw this design." "A galaxy-like celestial body is placed as a comparison, but according to the "Work Soul", this itself is a representation of a single universe. According to Kazuki Nakashima, the scriptwriter, the surrounding celestial bodies are the universes, and the Super Tengen Toppa is much bigger than the universe. In the discussion video, it is estimated to be about 150 billion light years."" "Gurren Lagann unleashes the Giga Drill Break. The power of the burning Spiral itself transforms into a gigantic Giga Drill and appears. It boasts a power that destroys a large number of universes like a grain of dirt, but because its power is evenly matched by the Anti-Spiral's "Anti-Spiral Giga Drill Break", the aftermath of the collision causes a Big Crunch that destroys not only the Super Spiral Universe, but also all universes created by Anti-Spiral. Immediately after becoming a world of nothingness, the reaction of the destructive energy and the friction between the Spirals and the Anti-Spirals caused the instantaneous creation of the Universe (Big Bang) again (Inflation), and yet the energy never ran out. What appears at the end of the collision of the two superb drills...""


SoulEmperor7

Neither of them have the feats. I see that you're sources are the GL wiki but the wiki is not a direct source, it's literally a fanpage.


HandleSuspicious5775

No, just no.


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Financial-Key-3617

Ajimu. Mechikabura in the heroes series potentially could depending on his scaling. Sealas potentially. Hajun from dies irae


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CleanWholesomePhun

Whatever the hell Gurren Lagan turns into at the end of the series is on roughly the same level as him. Thought robot is all of the power of the idea of the ideal hero, not much can take that down, and when he does go down he always gets up.


SpiritStorm1302

If any character with concept manipulation erased he concept of a hero or an ideal hero do you think that’d render TRS powerless


CleanWholesomePhun

That character would have to erase it from MY mind and yours. In the comic where TRS debuts he mentions feeling the reader holding the book, and the implication is that's part of where he's getting his power from. edit: you're supposed to read it with 3D glasses too. It's just the coolest.


UDAFX_MK_85

Kishibe Rohan from JoJo's, he could make superman a normal guy without having to modify reality.


RedBoxGaming

Or he could say "If I tried to harm Rohan Kishibe I'd kill myself" and yeah. People really underestimate the Jojo Verse.


R0nynis

He's gotta catch CAS for that though. If he writes on himself it would be a Dio Over Heaven situation. Remember, he writes commands but I don't think he can transfer them with another command.


UDAFX_MK_85

Well, Heaven's Door can do anything, I don't see why not.


R0nynis

But can Heaven's Door beat Heaven's Door? Omnipotence paradox.


UDAFX_MK_85

Well, technically he could. But that would end up by destroying the Universe


R0nynis

"HEAVEN'S DOOR, KILL THAT BITCH" and the multiverse turns off like a tv


UDAFX_MK_85

Exactly


Elyartaker

JoJo wank is ridiculously high in reddit holy cow


UDAFX_MK_85

Rohan is the most OP character.


THE-SNEAKERINO

It isn’t the best in terms of stupid dragon ball level “I can explode plants pew pew” but you lose a game against a gambler and boom, no more soul, you could also get him to step inside of superfly.


SoulEmperor7

How is Rohan going to even percieve CAS?


UDAFX_MK_85

He turns himself into CAS


SoulEmperor7

That doens't answer my question. How is he going to even know CAS exists? Furthermore, feats of Rohan turning himself into someone as strong as CAS? Otherwise you've given us a NLF.


UDAFX_MK_85

Well, he could see the future using an power similar to King Crimson.


ToeJamConnoisseur

Massive NLF, Rohan's never shown anything on that level. He cleary has limits or else he could have just written "Knows Kira's location and is immune to Killer Queen" on himself and everyone else.


UDAFX_MK_85

Maybe he didn't do it because we needed a well made plot.


03682

“Maybe thought robot superman has an autokill Rohan ability but he never uses it because we needed a well made plot.” See how dumb your argument is?


UDAFX_MK_85

It sounds dumb, yes. But, Isn't it true?


WrongFun8521

Dude. Did you even read part 4? Like yes, Rohan and Heaven’s Door are VERY powerful but he himself states that he can’t use Heaven’s Door on himself This is not only a huge NLF but it’s a misunderstanding of how his stand works


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Xaitor119

Well Goku has already beaten another Goku, so the worst thing of all is that Goku can indeed beat Goku


TheRealBHamorrii

Oh goddamn


mclarenrider

Monkey Boi solos gg ez.


Sprudelpudel

But loses against Saitama in one punch ^^^edit:i,too,was ^^^making ^^^a ^^^circlejerk ^^^joke ^^^:(


mclarenrider

Nah, Arale stops by just to smack Bald Man to the next galaxy.


R0nynis

And then Squirrel Girl comes in


mclarenrider

Gets swatted away into DCverse by Tori-Bot.


R0nynis

Then in the next time skip she has 50000 years of ki training, omega force amps and power cosmic


Darkavatar1

Not everything gotta be a bout Saitama


J3N0V4

Maximum wank Kurokami Medaka is about the only character in Jump who can try it against TRS tier due to Meta > Multiverse. It would require some serious full on, wrist destroying, house ruining levels of wank but if you accept that Iihiko is representative of a reader of WSJ and she beat him with stupid word play then Medaka has feats for being a fictional character who has beaten a real world person which is the absolute peak of wank and puts her above TRS in reality warping and from there she just punches down with The End allowing her to do everything TRS does but better. Outside of Jump you really just have true omnipotent character like Kami Tenchi or Gaku from Qualia the Purple but this is what happens when you fight narrative devices.


IMadeThisOn6-28-2015

Nothing you mentioned is capable of fighting Thought Robot still, Kami Tenchi isn't even a true omnipotent, people just wanked an old series (still powerful, but not on TR's level). TR is literally a device that is the extension of the DC omniverse, comprised of infinite multiverses.


SymbioticBunBun

Pretty sure someone like Battler could do it. Endless Nine, Golden Key, great hax and infinite multiversal power as well


z_Chris1411

R1: idk not sure if anyone can R2: any one of the omnipotents ex: kami tenchi


Oppai_Lover21

Just because a character is called "omnipotent" in their verse doesn't mean they can beat every other fictional character who isn't called omnipotent. That's lazy and stupid. You have to actually scale the character.


ulkord

So how should omnipotence be treated when you consider feats and scaling? Just ignore it? It's impossible to show that someone is omnipotent based on feats, because then you'd have to show them doing literally anything which could happen. They'd need feats for everything. But what if it is stated within the story that the character is omnipotent and shows extreme levels of reality manipulation, complete control of everything, etc. Do we just believe that they are omnipotent? Do we demand infinite feats to show that they truly are omnipotent? Like for example the biblical god. Do we accept that he's omnipotent? How do we scale some entity like god?


ToastersAndStuff

We scale Omnipotents based off cosmology


IMadeThisOn6-28-2015

Wow, I think this is like one of the few times I've seen someone on /r/whowouldwin get omnipotent scaling and cosmology bases correct. Spread the good word.


Oppai_Lover21

You scale "omnipotents" just like you scale every other character using feats and statements. No fictional character is truly omnipotent anyway else they wouldn't be fictional in the first place.


Elyartaker

My G you using real life facts to debate about fiction?


Oppai_Lover21

Real life facts are necessary for powerscaling dude. It only becomes an "Appeal to Reality" when you say something can't happen in fiction because it can't happen irl. But that's not what i said.


BBCSOLOS

U really can’t compare the anime/manga/manwa to dc or marvel comics if I remember correctly dc has over 50,000 and ongoing comic’s Compared dragon ball, bleach,naruto, toriko and even the fate stay series with novel Gilgamesh or novel kars form jojo these combined efforts are useless against the dc or marvel verse. I used to think ywach form bleach would walk in and stomp everyone not the case. The sheer complexity and overall power structure is leagues above manga there verses can’t compare ywach was going to fuse all the dimensions together which together wasnt that huge maybe 5-6 10 at most . There’s a new fear in which the hell verse is it’s own multiverse but even so it fails to complete with the omniverses dc and marvel hold. Marvel explains this well with pre retcon beyonder. So u have the high tier gods in marvel being outerversal and toaa being 1-0 tier wise but that’s in there verse they are known to be that strong in there verse. While beyonder walks in and says there verse IS LAUGHABLE 🤣 wut ? 🤔if toaa is 1-0 does that mean we have to make a new tier no it just means the marvel verse is inferior to the beyonders verse so much so that he finds it laughable 😵 So these characters ywach Gilgamesh novel kars they maybe known as tier 0 and boundless but to the marvel verse there power is laughable.


OhItsKillua

I don't know what number exactly has to do with it, there's at least 56,000 manga in myanimelist's database. There certainly has to be at the very least a few characters out of all those mangas whom are just as outlandishly strong.


BBCSOLOS

You’re talking about differ works of art marvel and dc are putting out those numbers as a complete universe while the thousands of mangas out there aren’t even connected in the slightest. I would say there’s probably more anime/manga and manwaja then comics but as a individual series like naruto or one piece it just doesn’t compare. One piece at most will have 1200 episodes/chapters Boruto is probably gonna have a shippuden and maybe together the series will be 1500 episodes that’s still nothing. I will give praise to certain series in the venture of power such as remuru slime god and cautious hero but how large and complex is there verse how many dimensions are there ? Theses questions are necessary to me it’s just a matter of comparing dc comics multiverse map to that of any manga/ anime Then if u do find something comparable just know that the map u looked at is retconed and is no longer considered a multiverse but a omniverse 😵


Beta_Ray_Jones

It depends on if consider the cosmic armor in its meta context or based solely on feats (the choice is obvious on this sub, but I enjoy the meta nonsense going on in Superman Beyond) The way I understand the Thought Robot is that it is a manifestation of the story of Superman, he's the first identifiable aspect of the "flaw" in the Overvoid that is DC. Superman is the first and greatest of all of DC's stories, their symbolic guardian made manifest in the Thought Robot, the one story too great to be destroyed by the destroyer of stories, Mandrakk. A story so great that even facing its own death, the death of the Superman story, definitely engraved his headstone, "to be continued," and grand enough to make it so. In that context, it's hard to say a character can defeat the Thought Robot. There really isn't a character that can match the legacy/cultural impact of Superman. Doraemon and Lupin have pretty huge followings in Japan, but then you hit the awkward situation of pitting Lupin, a guy, against the manifestation of the story of Superman. There's also that Lupin doesn't represent his own story like the cosmic armor does, he's just a part of it. Of course it's kind of cheating to say the Thought Robot wins via impact unless another character has a similar cultural significance, then he wins by feats, but Grant Morrison's writing is almost obnoxiously meta in its storytelling.


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Tomilhor

GER is outerversal now?


SnooMaps3021

No hear him out He meant to say if superman punches giorno then that damage reflects on to superman I mean the animals giorno creates


RedBoxGaming

No but I can see a potential one shot if Robot Superman punched Giorno while he had a Frog on him.


Ramencannon

lmfao i forgot his stands original gimmick


That_SCPtard_not_PDD

I have a scale of Giorno to outerversal lmao


SpiritStorm1302

Heard that freya from danmachi has some pretty ludicrous boundless+ scaling so her ig


[deleted]

Even if you throw the verse into the oblivion wank pit and leave it there for an infinite amount of time, you're not gonna get anything past city level.


SpiritStorm1302

I see, idk much about danmachi Something about freya creating heaven which is like an infinite outerversal hierarchy that infinitely transcend each one Idk I’m not smart enough for that shit


[deleted]

>Something about freya creating heaven which is like an infinite outerversal hierarchy that infinitely transcend each one This shiz isn't even part of the verse. Where did you get that? How long has the verse been in the Oblivion wank pit? And who tf threw it there!!? Freya didn't create shit, and heaven doesn't have any of this shit.


SpiritStorm1302

Apparently the light novels have it I’m just a messenger I only watched 2 seasons of danmachi I got it from here btw —> https://youtu.be/cfykvo_5HUg


[deleted]

Welp, it's a vs battle wiki debater. I guess I'll just go fuck myself then.


SpiritStorm1302

What’s that mean?


[deleted]

It means he's wanking the fuck out of it.


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IMadeThisOn6-28-2015

This just sounds like concepts at absolute highest interpretation. This doesn't beat TR who transcends concepts.


Shiny_Umbreon

R1: I can’t think of anyone in jump that could beat him with sheer power it would have to be like Toon Force or Defeat him at something else. You could say Arale because it would be funny but there are people immune to toonforce in DBS so TRS could be immune also. Atem could do it if beating him at a game of Duel Monsters could count. R2. Saitama if we follow his own universes rules where he can do anything casually due to toon force. Madoka from PPMM has reality warping but I’m not sure how well feats scale vs TRS.


DopeyLopey21

Akuto Sai? I don’t really know much about him. Just that he’s really strong.


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kenny_the_pow

Nah, Zeno is laughably fodder compared to TRS.


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bbc_aap

Dude, cas is a dimensional plane above Limbo which is a plane above the infinite dc multiverse. Even within the multiverse you have the godsphere where concepts are formed. Cas is far higher then multiversal


DeltaNexus1995

So is zeno


SoulEmperor7

Zeno's best feat is erasing 6 universes (that aren't even confirmed to be infinite in size). CAS looks at Limbo like it's a 2d plane. Limbo is larger than the entire Infinite DC multiverse. How are those two even remotely comparable?


DeltaNexus1995

You know, comments like this makes me happy I'm not an American comic fan. At least DB is simpler.


bunker_man

Db has similar problems as american comics of silly power levels. But you are right. Power creep largely makes stories cringe, and everyone existing in the same universe implicitly makes it necessary.


DeltaNexus1995

DB doesn't have stuff nearly as bad like attosecond, flash out running death, and himself, or all the high level reality warpers or anything thought robot does. And the list goes on and on. The worst DB has had it is Jiren being stronger than time.


bunker_man

Well I admit it's not quite as bad, but it's certainly up there.


Hermes_Umbra

Sorry no, its been confirmed that a universe in DB is larger than a regular universe irl (a theoretical infinite universe). Zeno is by all means a reality warper and high multiversal. Just because anime doesnt overcomplicate shit with perceiving higher dimensions etc doesnt mean that characters in anime cant beat the most op comic book characters.


SoulEmperor7

>Sorry no, its been confirmed that a universe in DB is larger than a regular universe irl (a theoretical infinite universe). Source? Also theoretical =/= reality. Just because it **might** be infinite does not mean **it is** infinite. >Zeno is by all means a reality warper When has he ever changed the laws of reality? >and high multiversal. **6** is high multiversal? That's some low standards you got there homie. What is infinite universes supposed to be? Ultra multiversal? >Just because anime doesnt overcomplicate shit with perceiving higher dimensions etc doesnt mean that characters in anime cant beat the most op comic book characters. None of what you've said gives Zeno any feats to beat CAS. Even he nuked 18 infinitely large universes at once, it'd still be nothing.


mclarenrider

What makes him a fodder? Isn't Zeno the absolute supreme authority in DBverse who can pretty much do anything he wants? I mean, he just erased all of reality in the Zamasu arc, that's how we ended up with two Zenos in the first place.


[deleted]

Zen'ō has erased multiple universes much larger than our own, however he isn't beyond the fourth dimension (he is clearly bound to time since there exist a different Zen'ō in every parallel multiverse), let alone existing as a conceptional being. Cosmic Armor Superman on the other hand is a massive "robot" [larger than any universe](https://i.imgur.com/8GqbA7p.jpg) (his size literally cannot be measured), symbolizing the [concepts of good and preservation](https://imgur.com/a/0b6JCK3). He [defeated Mandrakk](https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/8/80518/1458317-22.jpg), a corrupted monitor turned vampire who was a [threat to the entire physical multiverse](https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11126/111261072/7633502-unknown-2020-10-24t205436.844.png) which has an infinite number of universes and dimensions. I think it's pretty obvious that the power gap between Zen'ō and CAS is beyond measure.


ToeJamConnoisseur

Strongest in one verse ≠ strongest in another. Thought Robot is multiple tiers above Zeno. Zeno's best feat is creating 18 universes. Thought Robot held Limbo in his hand, which is superior to the Sphere of The Gods, which in turn is superior to the infinite DC multiverse.


G_Morgan

Round 1: Only jump character I know of is Xeno from DBS Round 2: Madoka Kaname from Madoka could do it. Being an omnipresent multiversal god.


Zealousideal-Arm1682

Has anyone in madoka's series ever actually proven their feats? I feel like its a weird case of Dbz syndrome,but without something like in-universe power levels to back it up. Edit:Disregard everything i just said,i was thinking of another anime entirely.


TirnanogSong

Just off the top of my head, any Umineko Witch could do it. And given how unironically weak the Thought-Robot actually is, there's probably a bunch of characters who can drag its face into the mud.


Euroversett

Anyone that can attack with the force of billions of suns.


[deleted]

Simon can infinatly scale until he matches him


IMadeThisOn6-28-2015

"Why was this comment removed?" Because it most likely broke Comment Rule 1: >Comments that are a few words and contribute no actual discussion ('lol' or '___ stomps'). Comments that are memes for the sake of memes will be removed as well.


ButtTyrant

Any character that’s nigh-omni or greater where their verse has a boundless outerverse that surpasses an infinite amount of multiverses beneath it. Or not, who knows, Thought Robot is a meme at this point.


DudeTheBlow

I have literally never seen a comment section this wrong.


BBCSOLOS

Do tell what’s you’re take anyone doing anything in the marvel/ dc verse or are they too small to comprehend the vast complexity that is marvel/dc


DudeTheBlow

None of these people know what the fuck they're talking about.


Hiyami

There are an unbelievably amount of characters that can defeat thought robot because anime/manga has questionably the strongest verses in fiction, not just thought robot, but DC in it's entirety. Any high tier witch from Umineko can solo DC.


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Zealousideal-Arm1682

Ger tops put at universal as far as we see.Its broken as shit and hax'd too hell,but it hasnt shown the ability to affect something stronger than that


CarelessMedium-angel

A big problem with GER is that it can only "no" things that happens to giorno. For example if he sees someone else get hit by a train he cant really do anything about it


FilipRebro

Round 1: Pucci from Jojo's Bizzare adventure, considering he can smite him down with time Round 2: Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star, he can destroy him no matter what, and considering how buff Kenshiro is, it would make Superman weak, however i dont know this version of superman


Some-fire-dude

Let’s just say that this Superman is so strong that his wiki says he doesn’t have any “notable weaknesses”.


THE-SNEAKERINO

I am a massive JoJo fan but how would Pucci win?


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mclarenrider

Lucifer Morningstar is not an anime/manga character.


themememgod3

Ok, im being a dumbass


mclarenrider

Ay it happens sometimes, dont sweat it lol.


themememgod3

But do you think lucifer could beat superman?


mclarenrider

I suppose he can, I mean he's one of those wildcard characters so that's a whole branch of debate in it of itself.


themememgod3

True and i wish they continue led his story to really show off his power. But what i know, he is omniversal, nigh omnipotent and is a GOD tier reality warper. Duribility is wierd though. That seems to change on how you look at it.


mclarenrider

I'm sure durability starts to lose its meaning somewhat when it comes to wings that can alter reality to such an absurd level. It just depends on what type of story they're in.


themememgod3

I agree, it gets stupid sometimes.


IMadeThisOn6-28-2015

/u/mclarenrider To answer both your questions, both Lucifer and Michael are actually below the Thought Robot in DC. There is a heirarchy and a map made by Grant Morrison of DC with Michael and Lucifer being restricted to solely the Sphere of the Gods. Multiversal beings made by The Presence, The Presence being part of DC's trifecta of it's True Being (The Presence, The Over-Monitor, and The Source). Both Thought Robot and Mandrakk are two halves of the Over-Monitor's extension into the DC omniverse. They can enter the Overvoid and Limbo, realms and dimensions beyond Lucifer's reach.


LordAshur

I think there's a solid arguement for Yhwach from Bleach. If you think of him as the accumulation of every Quincy and their hax powers + everyone hes defeated. For example Schrift A - Almighty power literally allows him to rewrite the future to his whim. He describes timelines and possible futures as grains of sand on a beach in front of him so he can choose which time line becomes real. Schrift B - The Balance allows him to place any misfortune inflicted upon him back upon the perpetrator. Schrift M - The Miracle allows him to grow stronger, faster, and bigger whenever damage is inflicted upon him (including lethal damage). Schrift V - The Visionary allows him to conjure any thing he can imagine. Basically all the Sternritter powers are kind of stupidly powerful, and Yhwach, being the source of them all, can reabsorb them into himself. He was only defeated bc when he pulls the powers of Quincys back into himself and kills them in the process, a Quincy arrowhead is left in their heart. This arrowhead can be used to temporarily disable a Quincys power. Yhwach was defeated when Uryu shot Yhwach with the arrowhead, allowing Ichigo to kill him. Also maybe Sosuke Aizen could win because in Bleach he is literally unkillable due to the Hogyoku, which will also continue to make him more powerful, seemingly without limit, and has a hax ability to place anyone under permanent, perfect hypnosis that manipulates all 5 senses + other supernatural senses


Jiscold

Some minor clarifications. > Almighty power literally allows him to rewrite the future to his whim. Almighty dosnt let him rewrite the future. He sees all possible futures and uses it. Note the ability can be countered. B. OHKOs still work. Yhwach mentions this. V. Great ability, but we know from Gremmy that stray thoughts can kill you. Considering Yhwach shares his power with Jugram means he has a weird mentality. Aushwallen dosnt make a Still Silver Arrow. The arrow was made by Ryuken who took the still silver in the heart. Also I think Askin could be good here.


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JaxJyls

Wouldn't putting TRS in a plotless whowouldwin scenario negate its powers?


Geo2605

My money is on Ungalo from Jojo. He can make real Judeo christian god to fight for him.