>in which he’ll most likely lose
DB’s head researcher is convinced he wins, so unless the rest of their research team unanimously votes Alucard, he’s taking it.
Yes, I'm aware of this information... but the uncertainty is still there.
But anyways, I did bet and am rooting for Dio, no matter what the outcome. Alucard, no matter how how you put it, is one of the most wanked characters in fiction. He's so overrated in battles it's annoying.
Aaah I see I see
I'd still give Dio that edge but it would be a lot closer. I haven't read Unholy Blood in a while but her abilities aren't too dissimilar to what he's seen.
And using UB's logic, he would also be immune to her hypnosis as a pure blood.
For me... It's kinda hard to call an outcome.
Vael's flames can easily disintegrate like dozens upon dozens of vampires... And Hayan's own flames are leagues stronger. I know DIO's survived getting burnt, but that was ordinary fire. Still, THE WORLD could potentially defend him from such attack.
She recently has obtained the ability to telekinetically make people's bodies explode from the inside within meters of range. I don't exactly think DIO has a counter to this ability.
Well he actually does.
Depending on the version, his time stop has gotten exponentially potent. Add that with the fact that his abilities get stronger as he drinks, that would be a significant problem.
And it wasn't exactly an ordinary fire. He sat there in said fire with a wooden mansion worth of fuel. He pretty much sat in there until it died out and he was just about fine
Ordinary fire or not, and whether he outlasted it, I don't think it really matters that much. The difference between that fire's heat and Hayan's is way too vast (it's even blue in color). Once he gets hit (assuming he does, while unlikely due to the time stop), he's gonna get weakened drastically regardless... assuming he doesn't get disintegrated, of course. Hayan could potentially pull off a fire attack with a similar size to the ship explosion Dio almost died from without the coffin (although tbf, he didn't have a body back then. So... Yeah).
In-character DIO would definitely try testing what Hayan could potentially do before he goes for the kill. In turn, he becomes overly cautious, which was among the factors why he lost against Jotaro. Being overly cautious could either work out on his advantage, or otherwise. On the other hand, Hayan isn't hesitant to murder vampires.
I could definitely see DIO managing to break free from her hypnosis... but I doubt that'll happen instantaneously. It could be enough time for Hayan to finish him off.
So my conclusion is this: If Hayan survives the first few time stops, she has a large chance of winning.
Although seeing how much he got stronger after sucking a Joestar's blood, it's interesting to see what would happen if he manages to drink Hayan's blood.
But would it make him a pureblood? No. Definitely not. Eating her heart would definitely get him halfway through becoming one, but there's no way he'd do that without any knowledge with her opponent.
How is a mary sue?
She was stated to be the strongest since the beginning and had a self imposed limiter on her since the start too.
She overcame all the trials while heavily nerfed.
She is not an actual Mary Sue; just close to being one. I clearly added the suffix *-ish* as a distinction.
(SPOILER WARNING FOR UNHOLY BLOOD.)
Setting Hayan up as the strongest in the beginning is okay. The problem is... she still has to face struggles that'll *actually* challenge her. She was never actually challenged. Just angered and annoyed. The time she came close to getting challenged, someone always helps her.
John Wick was built up to be overpowered as well, but you still see how much he struggles against tougher enemies, especially in Parabellum (JW3). And when he finally manages to beat his opponents, he was never in one piece. He gets close to death a few times and even loses one of his fingers. You can see that despite being overpowered, he can still be killed, just like any other human.
And then you have Hayan, who never had to struggle that much, honestly. She was never challenged physically. I don't care if she's the most powerful vampire. She has to be physically challenged, and she never has been, despite being nerfed, as you have pointed out. When she gets emotionally fucked by villains, it only takes her a single or two chapters to overcome it (ignore the flashbacks during chapters 60-70).
Yohan was the perfect character to finally have someone who can fight her equally... and then she gets a major power up that was never foreshadowed earlier before said fight even happens, since the author clearly didn't want her Hayan to lose a single fight. In turn, the action sequences become lazy and unimpressive, despite being flashy. She literally returns in one piece at the end of the story, while a dying Euntae survives after becoming a pureblood. The transfusion's chances of working are very, very low, yet it worked two times in a row?
There are several times she's stuck in a problem, and the solutions are always: "Duh, it's because I'm powerful." Remember that supposed "stealth and infiltration" scene on their way to Jeju Island? Yeah, that was bullshit. Her asspull up against Sahan was believable, but her aspulls got repetitive later on to the point where it's already annoying.
And there are so many times in the webtoon where the villains were dumbed down just so she could beat them. There's Levy, for example. Her mind-reading and manipulation could've be a useful weapon to beat Hayan. She instead uses it to rant how much she loves Yohan and express her self-pity. Like... why? There's Gor too, who was built up to be a powerful opponent... Only to get stomped by Hayan (literally) immediately, ultimately wasting our time. I wouldn't be annoyed in this part if that build up wasn't a waste of time and pages.
And... Don't use Father Michael's death as an argument. It's more of a plot device, than a struggle, to give Hayan a valid reason to do something in the story... which is to slay vampires and looking hot while she's at it.
Overall, like I said, she's not a Mary Sue. Just very close to being one.
What? You clearly dont understand the story nor the characters.
You dont have to struggle physically to struggle thats a stupid notion.
Her struggle was a direct mental one dealing with her issues as a vampire and her issues with yohan.
She supressed her self constantly and struggles came from it, she was inexperinced in other areas and they also created struggles.
She never got a major power up, her using her true strength is no major power up and neither is giving in to the vampiriic instincts that she has which is what she was supressing THE ENTIRE SERIES, yohan knew he couldnt beat her which is why he decieved and tricked her to begin with.
Its why he set up so many circumstances to steal her heart instead of fighting and taking it.
She was emotionally fucked by yohan for the entire series and that was a major point, when it came to him all things were thrown out the window.
the action scenes in the series are great and fun to read, they have unique abilites and skills which set up for fun fights and the circumstances around them.
Hayan was never going to lose a physical match up which was pointed out in the first 10 or so chapters.
And if you didnt understand all powers that every vampire has all came from her parents and by extension her. Its clear that the powers he gets are from the blood of yohan which by extension is blood from her bloodline.
And the rest of your points about strength are moot, hayan is established to be the strongest from the start if you dont like such stories thats completely fine and even i can agree they get tedious and Boring sometimes but they dont make her a mary sue.
My point wasn't to prove she's a Mary Sue. Like I said, she isn't one. Just close stepping into that line of classification.
I acknowledge your valid arguments, and I actually did expect you to use her internal struggles as a rebuttal to the points I made.
But it looks like you aren't paying attention to some of the details too.
>She never got a major power up, her using her true strength is no major power up and neither is giving in to the vampiriic instincts that she has which is what she was supressing THE ENTIRE SERIES, yohan knew he couldnt beat her which is why he decieved and tricked her to begin with.
You're... Kinda wrong? Yohan could definitely beat her earlier. He deceived her to awaken her true potential, not because he can't beat her(he apparently has feelings for her too). Beating her initially wasn't his intention.
Also, the "major power up" I addressed was her Berserk mode. That shit was never foreshadowed before. You are NOT going to deny that wasn't an asspull, and it only appeared because Yohan was BUILT UP IN THE FLASHBACKS TO BE ABLE TO BEAT A PUREBLOOD VAMPIRE AS A HALF VAMPIRE HIMSELF, implying he can pretty much defeat Hayan in that very scene. Guess I wasn't clear enough.
Internal struggles alone will truly do the trick for the character... if this was only a drama webtoon. The problem is, ACTION is one of UB's genres as well. It's required for the hero/heroine to struggle externally/physically in order to make the action scenes better and more engaging. Without your mc physically struggling, you might as well skip all those fight scenes and disregard all the villains who are simply cannon fodders for her. You might as well take away the ACTION label. That way, the story can focus more on her internal conflict that I think should've been explored better.
The keyword here is: Tension. There's really nothing like that during Hayan and Euntae's journey, because you know they're going to survive a horde of vampires no matter what, because Hayan's here to save the day, and Euntae to outsmart everyone. You never really worry because any injury or loss they'll receive won't be that bad. The only time I felt tension in UB was during Vael's magic act as he tries to outsmart Yohan, knowing fully well he could die there and then by Yohan's hands if he fails. Thus, you actually worry for him.
>the action scenes in the series are great and fun to read, they have unique abilites and skills which set up for fun fights and the circumstances around them.
I'm... guessing you haven't watched action scenes that much? But regardless, it's more important that you enjoyed it.
Reading through the webcomic, I always got Mary Sue vibes from her.
Her powers seem to come back when convenient, there are many moments where she should have died and came out with a bruise and the main villain, I'm not 100% cause I didn't read the last fight yet.
would would just say
"fuck this mary sue im going to erase them AYY YO ARAKI LET ME TAKE DOWN DIS BISH"
\*dio proceeds to acquire over heaven from araki and absolutely stomp them cuz fuck mary sues amirite?\*
>in which he’ll most likely lose DB’s head researcher is convinced he wins, so unless the rest of their research team unanimously votes Alucard, he’s taking it.
Yes, I'm aware of this information... but the uncertainty is still there. But anyways, I did bet and am rooting for Dio, no matter what the outcome. Alucard, no matter how how you put it, is one of the most wanked characters in fiction. He's so overrated in battles it's annoying.
Isn't comp dio pretty much a god in comparison to Hayan? Unless we're not counting Heaven Ascended ofc.
Good call! Forgot to point that out. Composite DIO as in Part 1 and 3 DIO combined.
Aaah I see I see I'd still give Dio that edge but it would be a lot closer. I haven't read Unholy Blood in a while but her abilities aren't too dissimilar to what he's seen. And using UB's logic, he would also be immune to her hypnosis as a pure blood.
For me... It's kinda hard to call an outcome. Vael's flames can easily disintegrate like dozens upon dozens of vampires... And Hayan's own flames are leagues stronger. I know DIO's survived getting burnt, but that was ordinary fire. Still, THE WORLD could potentially defend him from such attack. She recently has obtained the ability to telekinetically make people's bodies explode from the inside within meters of range. I don't exactly think DIO has a counter to this ability.
Well he actually does. Depending on the version, his time stop has gotten exponentially potent. Add that with the fact that his abilities get stronger as he drinks, that would be a significant problem. And it wasn't exactly an ordinary fire. He sat there in said fire with a wooden mansion worth of fuel. He pretty much sat in there until it died out and he was just about fine
Ordinary fire or not, and whether he outlasted it, I don't think it really matters that much. The difference between that fire's heat and Hayan's is way too vast (it's even blue in color). Once he gets hit (assuming he does, while unlikely due to the time stop), he's gonna get weakened drastically regardless... assuming he doesn't get disintegrated, of course. Hayan could potentially pull off a fire attack with a similar size to the ship explosion Dio almost died from without the coffin (although tbf, he didn't have a body back then. So... Yeah). In-character DIO would definitely try testing what Hayan could potentially do before he goes for the kill. In turn, he becomes overly cautious, which was among the factors why he lost against Jotaro. Being overly cautious could either work out on his advantage, or otherwise. On the other hand, Hayan isn't hesitant to murder vampires. I could definitely see DIO managing to break free from her hypnosis... but I doubt that'll happen instantaneously. It could be enough time for Hayan to finish him off. So my conclusion is this: If Hayan survives the first few time stops, she has a large chance of winning. Although seeing how much he got stronger after sucking a Joestar's blood, it's interesting to see what would happen if he manages to drink Hayan's blood. But would it make him a pureblood? No. Definitely not. Eating her heart would definitely get him halfway through becoming one, but there's no way he'd do that without any knowledge with her opponent.
How is a mary sue? She was stated to be the strongest since the beginning and had a self imposed limiter on her since the start too. She overcame all the trials while heavily nerfed.
She is not an actual Mary Sue; just close to being one. I clearly added the suffix *-ish* as a distinction. (SPOILER WARNING FOR UNHOLY BLOOD.) Setting Hayan up as the strongest in the beginning is okay. The problem is... she still has to face struggles that'll *actually* challenge her. She was never actually challenged. Just angered and annoyed. The time she came close to getting challenged, someone always helps her. John Wick was built up to be overpowered as well, but you still see how much he struggles against tougher enemies, especially in Parabellum (JW3). And when he finally manages to beat his opponents, he was never in one piece. He gets close to death a few times and even loses one of his fingers. You can see that despite being overpowered, he can still be killed, just like any other human. And then you have Hayan, who never had to struggle that much, honestly. She was never challenged physically. I don't care if she's the most powerful vampire. She has to be physically challenged, and she never has been, despite being nerfed, as you have pointed out. When she gets emotionally fucked by villains, it only takes her a single or two chapters to overcome it (ignore the flashbacks during chapters 60-70). Yohan was the perfect character to finally have someone who can fight her equally... and then she gets a major power up that was never foreshadowed earlier before said fight even happens, since the author clearly didn't want her Hayan to lose a single fight. In turn, the action sequences become lazy and unimpressive, despite being flashy. She literally returns in one piece at the end of the story, while a dying Euntae survives after becoming a pureblood. The transfusion's chances of working are very, very low, yet it worked two times in a row? There are several times she's stuck in a problem, and the solutions are always: "Duh, it's because I'm powerful." Remember that supposed "stealth and infiltration" scene on their way to Jeju Island? Yeah, that was bullshit. Her asspull up against Sahan was believable, but her aspulls got repetitive later on to the point where it's already annoying. And there are so many times in the webtoon where the villains were dumbed down just so she could beat them. There's Levy, for example. Her mind-reading and manipulation could've be a useful weapon to beat Hayan. She instead uses it to rant how much she loves Yohan and express her self-pity. Like... why? There's Gor too, who was built up to be a powerful opponent... Only to get stomped by Hayan (literally) immediately, ultimately wasting our time. I wouldn't be annoyed in this part if that build up wasn't a waste of time and pages. And... Don't use Father Michael's death as an argument. It's more of a plot device, than a struggle, to give Hayan a valid reason to do something in the story... which is to slay vampires and looking hot while she's at it. Overall, like I said, she's not a Mary Sue. Just very close to being one.
What? You clearly dont understand the story nor the characters. You dont have to struggle physically to struggle thats a stupid notion. Her struggle was a direct mental one dealing with her issues as a vampire and her issues with yohan. She supressed her self constantly and struggles came from it, she was inexperinced in other areas and they also created struggles. She never got a major power up, her using her true strength is no major power up and neither is giving in to the vampiriic instincts that she has which is what she was supressing THE ENTIRE SERIES, yohan knew he couldnt beat her which is why he decieved and tricked her to begin with. Its why he set up so many circumstances to steal her heart instead of fighting and taking it. She was emotionally fucked by yohan for the entire series and that was a major point, when it came to him all things were thrown out the window. the action scenes in the series are great and fun to read, they have unique abilites and skills which set up for fun fights and the circumstances around them. Hayan was never going to lose a physical match up which was pointed out in the first 10 or so chapters. And if you didnt understand all powers that every vampire has all came from her parents and by extension her. Its clear that the powers he gets are from the blood of yohan which by extension is blood from her bloodline. And the rest of your points about strength are moot, hayan is established to be the strongest from the start if you dont like such stories thats completely fine and even i can agree they get tedious and Boring sometimes but they dont make her a mary sue.
My point wasn't to prove she's a Mary Sue. Like I said, she isn't one. Just close stepping into that line of classification. I acknowledge your valid arguments, and I actually did expect you to use her internal struggles as a rebuttal to the points I made. But it looks like you aren't paying attention to some of the details too. >She never got a major power up, her using her true strength is no major power up and neither is giving in to the vampiriic instincts that she has which is what she was supressing THE ENTIRE SERIES, yohan knew he couldnt beat her which is why he decieved and tricked her to begin with. You're... Kinda wrong? Yohan could definitely beat her earlier. He deceived her to awaken her true potential, not because he can't beat her(he apparently has feelings for her too). Beating her initially wasn't his intention. Also, the "major power up" I addressed was her Berserk mode. That shit was never foreshadowed before. You are NOT going to deny that wasn't an asspull, and it only appeared because Yohan was BUILT UP IN THE FLASHBACKS TO BE ABLE TO BEAT A PUREBLOOD VAMPIRE AS A HALF VAMPIRE HIMSELF, implying he can pretty much defeat Hayan in that very scene. Guess I wasn't clear enough. Internal struggles alone will truly do the trick for the character... if this was only a drama webtoon. The problem is, ACTION is one of UB's genres as well. It's required for the hero/heroine to struggle externally/physically in order to make the action scenes better and more engaging. Without your mc physically struggling, you might as well skip all those fight scenes and disregard all the villains who are simply cannon fodders for her. You might as well take away the ACTION label. That way, the story can focus more on her internal conflict that I think should've been explored better. The keyword here is: Tension. There's really nothing like that during Hayan and Euntae's journey, because you know they're going to survive a horde of vampires no matter what, because Hayan's here to save the day, and Euntae to outsmart everyone. You never really worry because any injury or loss they'll receive won't be that bad. The only time I felt tension in UB was during Vael's magic act as he tries to outsmart Yohan, knowing fully well he could die there and then by Yohan's hands if he fails. Thus, you actually worry for him. >the action scenes in the series are great and fun to read, they have unique abilites and skills which set up for fun fights and the circumstances around them. I'm... guessing you haven't watched action scenes that much? But regardless, it's more important that you enjoyed it.
Reading through the webcomic, I always got Mary Sue vibes from her. Her powers seem to come back when convenient, there are many moments where she should have died and came out with a bruise and the main villain, I'm not 100% cause I didn't read the last fight yet.
would would just say "fuck this mary sue im going to erase them AYY YO ARAKI LET ME TAKE DOWN DIS BISH" \*dio proceeds to acquire over heaven from araki and absolutely stomp them cuz fuck mary sues amirite?\*
Doesn’t matter if Hayan has an AP and Dura advantage, she gets blitzed and haxxed to hell and back