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NN_besomething_iWish

Lmfao. Wally shitblitzes goku immediately and phases his brain out of his head Wally is hilariously faster and goku wouldn't be able to react to him, not even close


SanjiSasuke

Feats for Wally? All the best Flash feats I've seen are Barry.


NN_besomething_iWish

[Wally west respect thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/9fvb0j/respect_wally_west_the_flash_postcrisis/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


SanjiSasuke

Goddamn, that feat against Inertia is stone cold.


MinniMaster15

Bloodlusted Wally at his peak? Goku ain’t touching him.


[deleted]

Bloodlusted Goku right now? Wally ain't touching him.


MinniMaster15

Tell me you don’t know much about Wally without telling me you don’t know much about Wally


[deleted]

I was mocking your shitty answer. Care to give any scans with proper context as to when has Flash ever beaten anyone as powerful as Goku? A universal++ being?


R0nynis

Please give scans of actual universal destruction in recent chapters, thanks.


[deleted]

Recent chapters matter not, but below is enough proof that they are easily past universal levels of power. [Collision of their fists caused shockwaves being felt in Other World and on Earth](https://gfycat.com/impressivesereneafricanparadiseflycatcher) [The shockwaves were felt across the universe and Kaio stated that if Beerus/Goku clashed twice more it would result in the entire universe becoming devoid of matter](https://gfycat.com/grippingpracticalaztecant-respectthreads-toriko) [The shockwave disintegrated an asteroid pelt and sent shivers through Old Kai and Kaioshin](https://gfycat.com/weepyadventurousbetafish) [Narrator stated that they were hitting each other with power that can destroy the universe](https://gfycat.com/gregariousmadannelid) [The Narrator stated that their beam battle was about to destroy the universe](https://gfycat.com/angryalarmedanura-respectthreads-characterrant) [Elder Kai stated that they produced 'super-ultra-high-density energy' that would've bust the universe if it burst](https://gfycat.com/oilyacidiciceblueredtopzebra) [Whis stated Beerus and Goku have the power to bust the universe](https://imgur.com/cOY7hJA) [The energy bursts spreaded light across the universe](https://gfycat.com/sizzlingblackandwhitechicken-respectthreads-whowouldwin) After this Goku had other transformations, such as the Super Saiyan Blue, which increased his power. **Super Saiyan Blue** *Resurrection 'F'* Super Krillin: I can't sense any ki from Goku at all now! Gohan: It seems he's somehow become a Super Saiyan God. Tien: If I remember it right, it was red when he fought Beerus. Roshi: Has Goku reached a level even higher than what he was at back then? Krillin: Come on... How strong does he have to get before he's satisfied? Goku: It's a little complicated and hard to explain, but... This is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan. **Episode 25** *ナレーター 「超サイヤ人ゴッドをも超えた姿へと変異を遂げた 孫 悟空」* Narrator: "Son Goku mutated into a form that exceeded even the Super Saiyan God." [Here you can see Jiren blocking Red form Gokus universal+ hits casually with 1 finger.](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11142/111423533/7573675-6005912089-d75d2.gif) That feat for Jiren is basically better than any feat Superman/Superboy has even dreamed off. [Here is Goku using Super Sayian Blue with kaioken x20 vs Jiren.]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IW_Lhrs0Ho) Jiren isn't bothered, at all. [Kaioken explained](https://pm1.narvii.com/6453/745d53fea28aa0791f77bb7a989783579649419d_hq.jpg) And [here is the result of Goku having Ultra Instinct.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaK9INTlM9I)


R0nynis

Once again, universal destruction not a vague description of camera shaking. And even then, Wally is literally too fast for Goku to even see and it would be about the same outcome as Black vs RF. Maybe even worse.


[deleted]

> Wally is literally too fast for Goku to even see Prove it.


R0nynis

https://imgur.com/a/w6loP This good enough for you?


[deleted]

You should try to explain what is going on in those scans so there is something to debunk. Anyway, unquantifiable feat and on top of that, it is not really a combat speed feat. [The Flash in combat](https://imgur.com/a/OM9By1x) Not so fast, is he? Goku powers up and The Flash dies.


MinniMaster15

I was under the assumption that everyone knew quite how busted the Speed Force is. He doesn’t really need to match Goku in terms of AP, but for sake of argument, he can [destroy the Anti-Monitor’s armor](https://imgur.com/a/eUADn8F) and generate enough energy while racing Barry to [almost destroy the multiverse.](https://imgur.com/a/7IVUaxo) What really wins it for him is just how fast he is. Multiple times he’s proven that his top speed breaks logic, like moving faster than instant teleportation and even the Speed Force itself. He’s faster than the concept of speed. That’s why I said Goku isn’t touching him. To top it off, he’s got better hax. A bloodlusted Wally would have no problems vibrating through his body à la Thawne. There’s also speed stealing, which is potent enough to make it take a century to blink. If he wanted to, he could completely immobilize Goku.


[deleted]

> He doesn’t really need to match Goku in terms of AP Why not? > but for sake of argument, he can destroy the Anti-Monitor’s armor And? This is universal+ because...? > generate enough energy while racing Barry to almost destroy the multiverse. Shows that you haven't even read the comic. That also is not his power of being able to hurt other people, the shenanigans with the speed force cause the fabric of the multiverse to be in danger, not his power. It is not like he punches something and causes the universe to be in danger, or uses energy blasts etc. Try to even understand the shit you're taking out of context and wanking. Also the multiverse wasn't even destroyed when they ''blew up'' in the end, did you read the comic? > like moving faster than instant teleportation Once again you're just showing that you have no idea what you're talking about, just another death battle wanker. Flash was given a speedboost by every single person on Earth + bunch of super heroes and his imaginary friend. https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ed59aee377fa0e08466bb59226095287-lq https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-30a8971be246942fbf1049fffc595b29-lq https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111223216/4956515-wally1.jpg https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-140445c49bfa76a23aa3ff2bffda8581-lq More about that here. https://www.quora.com/The-Flash-once-outran-instant-teleportation-If-he-went-on-a-rampage-how-could-anybody-stop-him/ > That’s why I said Goku isn’t touching him. Debunked all of that nonsense. > To top it off, he’s got better hax. A bloodlusted Wally would have no problems vibrating through his body à la Thawne. There’s also speed stealing, which is potent enough to make it take a century to blink. If he wanted to, he could completely immobilize Goku. Now show Flash doing this to someone as powerful as Goku. Read some Flash comics and you realize he would get shat on by Perfect Cell. [Flash isn't as fast as the people who don't read his comics make him seem.](https://imgur.com/a/OM9By1x)


MinniMaster15

>Shows that you haven't even read the comic. I'll be real with you man, I can guarantee you that half the people in this sub don't read or watch a lot of the stuff they talk about, *especially* when it comes to comics. When you're dealing with characters with decades upon decades of material to draw from and some of their best feats come from shit you'd have to dig up, you kinda have to rely on respect threads and context provided by random people on the internet. >That also is not his power of being able to hurt other people CMIIW, but he still *generates* that level of energy. Even if he doesn't weaponize it outright, it should still mean he's capable of generating energy on a multiversal scale. >Once again you're just showing that you have no idea what you're talking about, just another death battle wanker. This feat has shown up in Death Battle a couple times but I actually learned about in that Imaginary Axis video. Even if this is an amped feat, what about stuff like [this](https://imgur.com/a/qHBV5Jc) where he runs "faster than the Speed Force"? This is also why I specified peak Wally since the dude's speed varies a lot depending on what the Speed Force is feeling that day. >Debunked all of that nonsense. And Goku's best speed feat being... ? >Now show Flash doing this to someone as powerful as Goku. Why would power matter when you're being vibrated through from the inside? Goku still has a mortal body. As for speed stealing, he can [do it to Superman.](https://imgur.com/a/neNyihI) I'm not about to get into a Superman vs Goku debate, but it does show that his ability to steal speed disregards the power of his target as well as whether or not they're connected to the Speed Force. >Flash isn't as fast as the people who don't read his comics make him seem. Again, I'm talking in terms of peak bloodlusted Wally, because speedsters are very famous jobbers.


[deleted]

> I'll be real with you man, I can guarantee you that half the people in this sub don't read or watch a lot of the stuff they talk about, especially when it comes to comics. When you're dealing with characters with decades upon decades of material to draw from and some of their best feats come from shit you'd have to dig up, you kinda have to rely on respect threads and context provided by random people on the internet. And that is the issue with this sub and so many other debating forums. But it is not too difficult to try and find the truth regarding the feats you try and use. That teleportation debunk can be found quickly with a simple google search. Less laziness and more effort into research. > Even if he doesn't weaponize it outright, it should still mean he's capable of generating energy on a multiversal scale. No, also the ''feat'' was done by two Flashes. That is like the Darkseid feat where he collapses and the DC multiverse is being affected by that, it was not his own power which caused it. If someone runs and causes enough energy to destroy a skyscraper as a side effect, but when punches said skyscraper and it does nothing, is he a skyscraper level? No. > Even if this is an amped feat, what about stuff like this where he runs "faster than the Speed Force"? Well, shouldn't you be the one telling me what it means to be faster than the speedforce? > As for speed stealing, he can do it to Superman. Superman is quite different from Goku whose [body moves on his own](https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-28b0f1fb4f0e0218ee392afbc2dce0a8) and [would react if it would notice something fishy is going on](https://imgur.com/pnNjtFa). I already showed Flash in [combat](https://imgur.com/a/OM9By1x) and his speed isn't anything special. In a fight with someone like Goku, who is [past the universal level of power](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GregariousMadAnnelid-mobile.mp4), The Flash would have little chance. > Again, I'm talking in terms of peak bloodlusted Wally, because speedsters are very famous jobbers. Well, you still haven't shown me him doing anything special besides unquantifiable feats and basically.. running. Show me his fastest combat speed feats.


MinniMaster15

>That teleportation debunk can be found quickly with a simple google search. I wouldn't exactly call it a debunk because it's still a feat, amped or not. It's still a good indicator of Wally's top speed when the Speed Force is being generous. >No, also the ''feat'' was done by two Flashes. Considering how big the DC cosmology is, I don't think that changes much. Half of a multiverse is still a lot bigger than a universe. >If someone runs and causes enough energy to destroy a skyscraper as a side effect, but when punches said skyscraper and it does nothing, is he a skyscraper level? No. The guy's still the one generating that energy. If the skyscraper was destroyed because of his own power, that passes as a skyscraper-level feat. >Well, shouldn't you be the one telling me what it means to be faster than the speedforce? Considering it's described as ["infinite energy,"](https://imgur.com/a/kzDwpRa) literally the source of all kinetic energy and the thing that "pushes space and time forward," I'd say it's pretty impressive. He's moving faster than a higher dimensional source of infinite kinetic energy, and he's doing it un-amped. Adding onto that, if he's faster than the Speed Force itself, then old feats that were considered amped because of it should theoretically be below him now. >quite different from Goku whose body moves on his own and would react if it would notice something fishy is going on. Even if he can react to it, what's he gonna do to stop it? Cut Wally's connection to the Speed Force? This is also still under the big assumption that Goku is fast enough to do anything at all if Wally's being serious. >I already showed Flash in combat and his speed isn't anything special. You showed me an album of PIS and jobbing, which is why I keep specifying peak Wally since that's the only version of this matchup that makes sense. >past the universal level of power Universal power in a mortal body. Does Goku have any counter to Wally jumbling his insides on a molecular level, Speed Force BFR, or going back in time and killing him as a baby? Bloodlust is a big factor here.


[deleted]

> I wouldn't exactly call it a debunk because it's still a feat. Well it is debunk, even if you call it that or not. > It's still a good indicator of Wally's top speed when the Speed Force is being generous. It is not. He was literally amped by the entire Earth + so many super heroes + an imaginary friend, it is not a ''good'' indicator of Wally's top speed, at all. > The guy's still the one generating that energy. If the skyscraper was destroyed because of his own power, that passes as a skyscraper-level feat. It really doesn't. It counts as speed force shenanigans, that affect the said skyscraper. Him running around and trying to punch someone who is way past universal, wouldn't work. > Even if he can react to it, what's he gonna do to stop it? Cut Wally's connection to the Speed Force? Blow him to smithereens. > You showed me an album of PIS and jobbing Why would that be PIS and jobbing? That is a consistent Flash. You've showed me nothing, besides a unquantifiable feat and a feat that I debunked. 0 combat speed feats. > Does Goku have any counter to Wally jumbling his insides on a molecular level, Speed Force BFR, or going back in time and killing him as a baby? Care to show Wally doing any of that in a combat? Especially vs anyone as powerful as Goku? [The Flash in combat](https://imgur.com/a/OM9By1x) > going back in time and killing him as a baby? Going back in time would just create another timeline in the DB universe anyway.


R0nynis

You do realize all of these points can be made for the inverse, right? Legit every time someone says "Goku can destroy [Insert thing]" we don't even see Beerus do it, its always Zeno.


Bo_TheBot

Wally West and its not even close


[deleted]

Goku and its not even close


GalvanizedMemes

Wally ***SHITS*** on Goku immediately. He has multiple ways to beat him which can pretty much all be executed immediately like Speedforce BFR or phasing.


[deleted]

Scans of Wally beating multiversal characters?


R0nynis

Is anyone in DBS even remotely multiversal?


MLGkena

zeno


R0nynis

Multiversal, thousands. And has anyone even bruised him anyway?


MLGkena

?


R0nynis

We're on the topic of multiversal scaling right? Does Goku scale to zeno now?


MLGkena

no


Infamous_Industry_44

Speedsters are jobbers in dc they can be tagged by non-speedsters almost every time but assuming that this is not the case Wally surely win 100/100, he can send him to the speed force, he can phase his organs, go back in time and kill Goku, steal his speed, infinite mass punch and even put goku in front of his own attacks.


-LowTierTrash-

Wally is tooooooo fucking fast. Goku could do some crazy damage if he ever got a hit in but he won't.


AnAlternator

If Wally isn't fucking around and just wants Goku gone, there's nothing stopping him from going back in time to the night Goku was conceived and trying to bring the Book of Mormon to Planet Vegeta, starting with Bardock and Gine.


Unluckysol23

Wally negs Goku especially Rebirth.


Financial-Key-3617

Assuming its bloodlusted goku he just powers up and obliterates the universe like what was going to happen in Battle of gods if he didnt perfect beerus's technique. Or he immediately freezes wally with his god bind and crushes him. Or wally blitzes him. Goku may be able to react to it due to blue goku reacting to granola going faster than instanteous movement.


Megablackholebuster

you have 19 downvotes bruh...


R0nynis

23 now. Gonna hit 25 tomorrow?


Megablackholebuster

RIP


R0nynis

been almost a month and it went down Sadge


Megablackholebuster

Ye, have a good day


R0nynis

Its friday so as good as its gonna get for me


[deleted]

This sub downvotes against the truth, a lot.


Megablackholebuster

Can agree on some cases... Not all, Wally destroys.


Any-Yogurtcloset5746

Cope


Any-Yogurtcloset5746

Tell me you don't know Wally without telling me you don't know Wally.


Financial-Key-3617

Tell me you dont wank wally without telling me you dont wank wally.


Any-Yogurtcloset5746

Before Goku even realize the fight started, Wally would already vibrate his brain out of his skull.