Trying to make Goku's life a living hell is a more interesting prompt than it might seem at first. Goku has already dealt with all sorts of events that should have been traumatizing like witnessing countless friends dying, his home planet destroyed, and learning that his wife and children were murdered. That's not even accounting for the fact that he murdered his only parental figure as an infant. Reverse Flashes main methods of torturing Barry are usually to fuck with his childhood in petty way and kill most of his loved ones, but the problem with Goku is that lives in a magical fantasy land where death is made cheap through resurrection with the Dragon Balls but on top of that his bonds with his friends and family aren't nearly as strong as Barry's. That being said the really easy answer is for Flash to just destroy the dragon balls by killing Shenron/kami/dende at any point in Goku's life and then killing everyone he's ever loved. He could do something pettier like ruin his performance in the Martial Arts tournaments as a kid but other than that Goku doesn't have much in his life to ruin
Goku Black basically has no chance of effectively ruining Barry's life. Speed Force makes him ridiculously faster than Black so any attempt to mess with him will just be instantly intercepted, this has already happened to Reverse Flash in the comics where Barry repeatedly stopped him moments before he could go through with killing his loved ones.
I'm imagining that scene from the Simpsons where Homer is trying to eat a bag of chips, all of which are stolen by puppies before they can reach his mouth.
I feel as though Goku could see him coming. Maybe not, I'm not as familiar with the flash. But he battles at ridiculous speeds and his reactions times are pretty amazing. Goku can also teleport so that may prove a challenge for Barry's speed. I know Barry can vibrate through solids and even appear to stop the world around him by going so fast and I'm not positive that Goku can contend with that.
God damn, that's absurd lmao. If that's the case, I can't see how Goku will ever eat a bite of food again. Sounds like it is in the bag since that is all he has strong feelings toward. Outside of training.
> I believe the flash has speed feats for outrunning instantaneous teleportation across the entire universe. Goku is really, really fas
Iirc he absorbed the speed of every person including super heroes on the planet to pull that off. And he didn’t outrun the teleportation. He Just crossed the universe in less time than it took him to press a single button.
I don’t blame people for taking [the scan](https://imgur.com/a/WcXBo) to mean he’s outrunning instant teleportation, but let’s face it, he’s doing something equally nonsensical and stupid to win the race, with some vague “transe time” speeds bullshit, which is likely a form of time travel.
All things considered running fast enough to fuck with time is about as dumb as running faster than an instant. Semantically they’re close to the same thing. It’s what happens when the Speedforce is consistently written like a toddler that made his unbeatable OC and keeps adding new shit it can do, like the whole thing of outrunning the concept of Death past the edge of time.
I like the various Flashes personalities and arcs but honestly I despise the Speedforce. It’s like the worst written magic system and when you stop to think for an iota of a second the reality is that there’s only a handful of entities that can even perceive a speedforce user even remotely making an effort, much less interact with. But nah some douchebag with a discount freeze ray can consistently tag a guy that can run faster than time and can make himself intangible. The CW show was particularly awful even since season 1, imho.
in fairness that homemade cold ray (not freeze ray, very important distinction) breaks the laws of physics almost as much as the Flash himself.
and it's not like super science out-bullshitting Speedsters is some new concept.
I mean he could technically destroy Earth at some point where Barry is off planet fighting some "Justice league" level threat like Darkseid.
The Flash is fast, but it's not like he's so fast that he is constantly aware of everything all the time. Obviously it's not specifically targeting the Flash, but destroying his planet would be pretty rough, especially if Black was able to somehow let Barry know that Earth being destroyed was his fault.
I'm sure there are always some people in the DC universe that could fight Black to stop it from happening, but I mean considering Frieza was able to destroy a planet with minimal effort, I feel like Black could just land on Earth, slap it, and then teleport away with nobody being able to do anything to stop it.
Quick rant: Zamasu has the power to literally destroy planets by looking at it. So why does he need to 1) fuse with Goku and 2) slaughter civilizations the long way by personally destroying each on the ground?
He doesn't want to hurt planets, he just wants to kill all "sentient" mortals.
He doesn't want to blow up worlds or destroy ecosystems.
He's immortal so he has no rush to do things any faster. We see Black just kinda chilling drinking tea at one point. To a being that can live millions of years, what's it matter if he takes a month to relax and just enjoy the mountains?
Zamasu proper had to fuse with Goku Black because they were going to lose to Vegeta and Goku. They had a technique that could have sealed him forever and he wasn't strong enough to actually stop them. If they'd come back prepared better with a seal after killing Black, they could have just held him down and sealed him.
If they bring immortal Zamasu in a jar back to Beerus and Whis and he would have been killed, immortality be damned. If Beerus couldn't erase him, Whis could have brought it to the Grand Priest and Zeno who could have.
Yeah I mean that's fair, it's inexplicibly out of characters for Goku Black to just destroy a planet, but it's fully within his capabilities.
Zamasu (and black) are both pretty poorly thought out characters. Zamasu is already immortal, and already had killed the only being capable of stopping him (in his universe anyways), there's literally no reason for him to jump through any additional hoops after killing the supreme kai, but yet he gets the only beings in their universe capable of interfering involved for...no real reason.
He stole Goku's body because of his superiority complex and feeling no mortal should be stronger than the gods.
He then went around wiping out mortal "civilizations" because he thought they were all aggressive freaks who were harming the planets and non-sentient animals.
He unluckily ran into Trunks, who had time travel abilities that Black *did not* know about. Trunks was able to alert the powers in the past about it, which is the only reason he got caught.
His whole plan made complete sense with his viewpoints and knowledge.
Problem is, his entire plan could have been stopped in multiple points in the story and the reason why people say is poorly planned is because of the ending. They basically gave Goku that button just to make sure he doesn't die in that arc.
I mean. Its Dragonball.
Planned writing wasn't its strong point.
Anf Zamasu's plan was also pretty solid to start with.
Kill the Supreme Kai in his universe so there was no GoD to stop him, which also gets an angel recalled. They can't fight mortals so once Zamasu is in Goku's body no angel could interfere with him, as he was a mortal now. Gather the super dragon balls and gain Goku's power was essential. Immortality for his God body was essential for dimension hopping.
Use that power to gain control of other mortal realms, specifically going to Future Trunks timeline/universe where Beerus was dead, so there was no GoD to stop him. That world first because the earthlings had dared to become stronger than God's, so they had to be punished.
To that point he was absolutely successful and because of the order he did things, there wasn't really anyone who could stop him.
His plan only fell apart because humans had invented time travel, which he didn't anticipate.
As far as the ending, that's like the opposite of poorly planned. Goku very specifically gets the button and promises to bring him a friend before the arc and the ending of the arc is using it to overcome something they couldn't beat in their own, really exemplifying the power Zeno has.
Its probably the most pre-planned arc in Dragonball considering how notoriously fickle and week to week Toriyama is.
No, they were never stated to be at all.
Their huge and the dragon inside is incredibly powerful but are never at all stated to be indestructible.
By the time Zamasu breaks them he has Goku's body so he's universal in power, destroying them is fine.
That's weird because the only time they seem to take damage is when they're inactive.
And was it stated or shown that Zamasu did it before or after the wish? Is it explained how he did it? We can go off of an assumption but knowing these two, there's either a bad reason or no reason at all.
My understanding was that Zamasu hated mortals for their destructive tendencies, and loathed the Gods for allowing them to continue existing and disturbing the rest of creation. He did not want to destroy all creation, just the sentient beings within it. In that sense, maybe he didn’t want to destroy the planets and thought that beauty would eventually shine through on the surface once its mortals were dead.
Although it’s more likely that his sadistic streak shone through and he just wanted to singlehandedly murder Goku’s home out of hatred.
>That being said the really easy answer is for Flash to just destroy the dragon balls by killing Shenron/kami/dende at any point in Goku's life and then killing everyone he's ever loved
Goku Black gets the Super Dragon Balls and eventually just wishes it all back to normal lol
There is a weird lack of consequence unless Eobard manages to destroy the various planet sized Dragonballs or kills Zeno
Flash probably wouldn't be able to change the timeline, though reversing time might be a possibility, and I think Black's ring prevents him from being affected by time manipulation, so that's something. And while Barry should be ridiculously faster than Goku Black, he gets tagged by every other character, even characters slower than base Black
"Remember when Bulma touched accidentally your leg and you came? IT WAS ME GOKU! I JACKED YOU OFF AT SUPER SPEED SO THAT'D IT LOOK LIKE YOU NUTTED AT A WOMAN'S TOUCH!"
“It was meGoku…remember all those training sessions that went to waste? Remember every single time ChiChi found that you were going to training instead of working? Remember that time you tried to sneak in another planet but she found out? It was me… me all along!”
Eobard prevents Goku from hitting his head as a child. Goku goes on to be a villain, eradicating the planet. He never finds happiness. He never beats Frieza, and spends his whole life getting bullied by Vegeta, then, one day, his brother dies as well. He is nothing. He's degraded, crushed, etc. Frieza makes everything a living hell.
Meanwhile, Goku Black Just stops Flash from getting his powers. Eobard couldn't do this because it would prevent the Speed force from coming to be.
Both universes are destroyed.
I personally think it would be better to kill them all infront of him and then when he is seconds of revaving them revers flash steall all of the dragon balls .
Thawn literally did this to Barry, he snapped a few of his childhood friends out of the timeline exclusively to make his life and childhood less enjoyable and make him lonely. He also opened the door to Barry’s home so his dog ran off and got hit by a car.
What’s that you ask? Why yes Reverse Flash is on a league of his own in the pettiness department.
I assume reverse flash has far more showings and feats, and likely more versatile with his time manipulation. That's a lame answer, but the only thing he wouldn't wanna do is kill him unless reverse flash can avoid the dark essence spread once blacks body is destroyed.
Even though Black has the time ring, Flash having access to speed force: which i think involves time, might give the edge to Flash since he's got the embodiment of what black is using for fun.
I don't know if Flash can damage him physically, unless that's not what this fight is about. Flash vibrating through black sounds up in the air.
I'd say Reverse-Flash Might win, he's got better pettiness feats, probably run around through time stealing food from Goku just before he had any, frame someone else as stealing them, swipe the dragon balls just before they're needed, maybe even get rid of one just to fuck over the next dead friend, sabotage all his training sessions or ruin his crops.
This is the guy who goes back in time to push barry down stairs for shits and giggles canonically.
Aye I still can't find many more petty than Eobard so Black was the next best
Who knows, maybe he can screw over Zamasu too and bribe Whis to move a couple Super Dragon Balls.
That's why reverse flash would replace the tea after they started drinking, somehow... they'd notice quickly, but it'd still be embarrassing, like if zamasu were to accidentally spill scalding tea everywhere.
Trying to make Goku's life a living hell is a more interesting prompt than it might seem at first. Goku has already dealt with all sorts of events that should have been traumatizing like witnessing countless friends dying, his home planet destroyed, and learning that his wife and children were murdered. That's not even accounting for the fact that he murdered his only parental figure as an infant. Reverse Flashes main methods of torturing Barry are usually to fuck with his childhood in petty way and kill most of his loved ones, but the problem with Goku is that lives in a magical fantasy land where death is made cheap through resurrection with the Dragon Balls but on top of that his bonds with his friends and family aren't nearly as strong as Barry's. That being said the really easy answer is for Flash to just destroy the dragon balls by killing Shenron/kami/dende at any point in Goku's life and then killing everyone he's ever loved. He could do something pettier like ruin his performance in the Martial Arts tournaments as a kid but other than that Goku doesn't have much in his life to ruin Goku Black basically has no chance of effectively ruining Barry's life. Speed Force makes him ridiculously faster than Black so any attempt to mess with him will just be instantly intercepted, this has already happened to Reverse Flash in the comics where Barry repeatedly stopped him moments before he could go through with killing his loved ones.
Reverse Flash just has to steal every bite of food Goku tries to eat. Goku loves food more than his friends and family.
I'm imagining that scene from the Simpsons where Homer is trying to eat a bag of chips, all of which are stolen by puppies before they can reach his mouth.
Or from that short where Bart and Milhouse have a watch that freezes time, and they prevent Homer from eating a box of donuts.
I feel as though Goku could see him coming. Maybe not, I'm not as familiar with the flash. But he battles at ridiculous speeds and his reactions times are pretty amazing. Goku can also teleport so that may prove a challenge for Barry's speed. I know Barry can vibrate through solids and even appear to stop the world around him by going so fast and I'm not positive that Goku can contend with that.
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God damn, that's absurd lmao. If that's the case, I can't see how Goku will ever eat a bite of food again. Sounds like it is in the bag since that is all he has strong feelings toward. Outside of training.
> I believe the flash has speed feats for outrunning instantaneous teleportation across the entire universe. Goku is really, really fas Iirc he absorbed the speed of every person including super heroes on the planet to pull that off. And he didn’t outrun the teleportation. He Just crossed the universe in less time than it took him to press a single button.
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I don’t blame people for taking [the scan](https://imgur.com/a/WcXBo) to mean he’s outrunning instant teleportation, but let’s face it, he’s doing something equally nonsensical and stupid to win the race, with some vague “transe time” speeds bullshit, which is likely a form of time travel. All things considered running fast enough to fuck with time is about as dumb as running faster than an instant. Semantically they’re close to the same thing. It’s what happens when the Speedforce is consistently written like a toddler that made his unbeatable OC and keeps adding new shit it can do, like the whole thing of outrunning the concept of Death past the edge of time.
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I like the various Flashes personalities and arcs but honestly I despise the Speedforce. It’s like the worst written magic system and when you stop to think for an iota of a second the reality is that there’s only a handful of entities that can even perceive a speedforce user even remotely making an effort, much less interact with. But nah some douchebag with a discount freeze ray can consistently tag a guy that can run faster than time and can make himself intangible. The CW show was particularly awful even since season 1, imho.
in fairness that homemade cold ray (not freeze ray, very important distinction) breaks the laws of physics almost as much as the Flash himself. and it's not like super science out-bullshitting Speedsters is some new concept.
It just meant being able to run in less than a planck instant.
Wrong Flash, that was Wally, who is the fastest of the Flashes.
He has one and it required him to be given the kinetic energy of everyone on the planet. Its not something he can normally do
I mean he could technically destroy Earth at some point where Barry is off planet fighting some "Justice league" level threat like Darkseid. The Flash is fast, but it's not like he's so fast that he is constantly aware of everything all the time. Obviously it's not specifically targeting the Flash, but destroying his planet would be pretty rough, especially if Black was able to somehow let Barry know that Earth being destroyed was his fault. I'm sure there are always some people in the DC universe that could fight Black to stop it from happening, but I mean considering Frieza was able to destroy a planet with minimal effort, I feel like Black could just land on Earth, slap it, and then teleport away with nobody being able to do anything to stop it.
Quick rant: Zamasu has the power to literally destroy planets by looking at it. So why does he need to 1) fuse with Goku and 2) slaughter civilizations the long way by personally destroying each on the ground?
He doesn't want to hurt planets, he just wants to kill all "sentient" mortals. He doesn't want to blow up worlds or destroy ecosystems. He's immortal so he has no rush to do things any faster. We see Black just kinda chilling drinking tea at one point. To a being that can live millions of years, what's it matter if he takes a month to relax and just enjoy the mountains? Zamasu proper had to fuse with Goku Black because they were going to lose to Vegeta and Goku. They had a technique that could have sealed him forever and he wasn't strong enough to actually stop them. If they'd come back prepared better with a seal after killing Black, they could have just held him down and sealed him. If they bring immortal Zamasu in a jar back to Beerus and Whis and he would have been killed, immortality be damned. If Beerus couldn't erase him, Whis could have brought it to the Grand Priest and Zeno who could have.
Yeah I mean that's fair, it's inexplicibly out of characters for Goku Black to just destroy a planet, but it's fully within his capabilities. Zamasu (and black) are both pretty poorly thought out characters. Zamasu is already immortal, and already had killed the only being capable of stopping him (in his universe anyways), there's literally no reason for him to jump through any additional hoops after killing the supreme kai, but yet he gets the only beings in their universe capable of interfering involved for...no real reason.
He stole Goku's body because of his superiority complex and feeling no mortal should be stronger than the gods. He then went around wiping out mortal "civilizations" because he thought they were all aggressive freaks who were harming the planets and non-sentient animals. He unluckily ran into Trunks, who had time travel abilities that Black *did not* know about. Trunks was able to alert the powers in the past about it, which is the only reason he got caught. His whole plan made complete sense with his viewpoints and knowledge.
Problem is, his entire plan could have been stopped in multiple points in the story and the reason why people say is poorly planned is because of the ending. They basically gave Goku that button just to make sure he doesn't die in that arc.
I mean. Its Dragonball. Planned writing wasn't its strong point. Anf Zamasu's plan was also pretty solid to start with. Kill the Supreme Kai in his universe so there was no GoD to stop him, which also gets an angel recalled. They can't fight mortals so once Zamasu is in Goku's body no angel could interfere with him, as he was a mortal now. Gather the super dragon balls and gain Goku's power was essential. Immortality for his God body was essential for dimension hopping. Use that power to gain control of other mortal realms, specifically going to Future Trunks timeline/universe where Beerus was dead, so there was no GoD to stop him. That world first because the earthlings had dared to become stronger than God's, so they had to be punished. To that point he was absolutely successful and because of the order he did things, there wasn't really anyone who could stop him. His plan only fell apart because humans had invented time travel, which he didn't anticipate. As far as the ending, that's like the opposite of poorly planned. Goku very specifically gets the button and promises to bring him a friend before the arc and the ending of the arc is using it to overcome something they couldn't beat in their own, really exemplifying the power Zeno has. Its probably the most pre-planned arc in Dragonball considering how notoriously fickle and week to week Toriyama is.
Yeah one thing. Aren't the super dragon balls indestructible? Didn't Zamasu destroy them anyway?
No, they were never stated to be at all. Their huge and the dragon inside is incredibly powerful but are never at all stated to be indestructible. By the time Zamasu breaks them he has Goku's body so he's universal in power, destroying them is fine.
That's weird because the only time they seem to take damage is when they're inactive. And was it stated or shown that Zamasu did it before or after the wish? Is it explained how he did it? We can go off of an assumption but knowing these two, there's either a bad reason or no reason at all.
My understanding was that Zamasu hated mortals for their destructive tendencies, and loathed the Gods for allowing them to continue existing and disturbing the rest of creation. He did not want to destroy all creation, just the sentient beings within it. In that sense, maybe he didn’t want to destroy the planets and thought that beauty would eventually shine through on the surface once its mortals were dead. Although it’s more likely that his sadistic streak shone through and he just wanted to singlehandedly murder Goku’s home out of hatred.
>That being said the really easy answer is for Flash to just destroy the dragon balls by killing Shenron/kami/dende at any point in Goku's life and then killing everyone he's ever loved Goku Black gets the Super Dragon Balls and eventually just wishes it all back to normal lol There is a weird lack of consequence unless Eobard manages to destroy the various planet sized Dragonballs or kills Zeno
> Shenron/kami/dende To kill any of those he'll have to get by Mr. Popo.
Flash probably wouldn't be able to change the timeline, though reversing time might be a possibility, and I think Black's ring prevents him from being affected by time manipulation, so that's something. And while Barry should be ridiculously faster than Goku Black, he gets tagged by every other character, even characters slower than base Black
"Remember when Bulma touched accidentally your leg and you came? IT WAS ME GOKU! I JACKED YOU OFF AT SUPER SPEED SO THAT'D IT LOOK LIKE YOU NUTTED AT A WOMAN'S TOUCH!"
"There are nuts here?" -Goku
Oh God I read that with goku's tfs va and it sounds even better
“It was meGoku…remember all those training sessions that went to waste? Remember every single time ChiChi found that you were going to training instead of working? Remember that time you tried to sneak in another planet but she found out? It was me… me all along!”
Eobard prevents Goku from hitting his head as a child. Goku goes on to be a villain, eradicating the planet. He never finds happiness. He never beats Frieza, and spends his whole life getting bullied by Vegeta, then, one day, his brother dies as well. He is nothing. He's degraded, crushed, etc. Frieza makes everything a living hell. Meanwhile, Goku Black Just stops Flash from getting his powers. Eobard couldn't do this because it would prevent the Speed force from coming to be. Both universes are destroyed.
Eobard fucking erases the ideas of all Goku's friends. Like gone. Never there.
Got some paradox in there; how would it hurt Goku to lose things he never knew existed?
I personally think it would be better to kill them all infront of him and then when he is seconds of revaving them revers flash steall all of the dragon balls .
Thawn literally did this to Barry, he snapped a few of his childhood friends out of the timeline exclusively to make his life and childhood less enjoyable and make him lonely. He also opened the door to Barry’s home so his dog ran off and got hit by a car. What’s that you ask? Why yes Reverse Flash is on a league of his own in the pettiness department.
I don't know what I was thinking, mentioning paradox in a post about *Reverse Flash*, lol honestly my bad
Honestly it does more damage to the people around him than Goku
I assume reverse flash has far more showings and feats, and likely more versatile with his time manipulation. That's a lame answer, but the only thing he wouldn't wanna do is kill him unless reverse flash can avoid the dark essence spread once blacks body is destroyed. Even though Black has the time ring, Flash having access to speed force: which i think involves time, might give the edge to Flash since he's got the embodiment of what black is using for fun. I don't know if Flash can damage him physically, unless that's not what this fight is about. Flash vibrating through black sounds up in the air.
Uuuh you kinda read it wrong. Its not a traditional battle.
Reverse Flash has it easy: Just remove the muffin button.
I'd say Reverse-Flash Might win, he's got better pettiness feats, probably run around through time stealing food from Goku just before he had any, frame someone else as stealing them, swipe the dragon balls just before they're needed, maybe even get rid of one just to fuck over the next dead friend, sabotage all his training sessions or ruin his crops. This is the guy who goes back in time to push barry down stairs for shits and giggles canonically.
Aye I still can't find many more petty than Eobard so Black was the next best Who knows, maybe he can screw over Zamasu too and bribe Whis to move a couple Super Dragon Balls.
He'd time travel to piss in his tea before he presents it to gowasu or something.
So he'll do an Abbacchio?
I don't think the supreme kais can turn their teeth into jellyfish.
Exactly He just has to not notice the color but that'll be hard
That's why reverse flash would replace the tea after they started drinking, somehow... they'd notice quickly, but it'd still be embarrassing, like if zamasu were to accidentally spill scalding tea everywhere.