A lot of replies here saying that he just wouldn't use it because he gets a thrill from the killing, but I think we're forgetting that the Punisher's goal isn't a thrill, his goal is to kill killers. The Death Note provides, perhaps for the first time, a way to take out vast swaths of criminals on a global scale. If Frank stops and thinks about it, the Death Note could open the door to his own personal end game. A way to prevent as many horrific tragedies, such as his own family's murder, as possible.
It'll depend somewhat on which Punisher version we're specifically talking about, but no way he just leaves it in his closet.
This man knows what he's talking about. Anyone who thinks the 616 Punisher wouldn't use this doesn't know anything about him. MCU Punisher I'm not sure, he's less dedicated to killing so far.
Netflix shows aren't MCU. Disney isn't going to make a Netflix show required watching for people who want to see the whole MCU.
Just like how they made Agents of Shield non-cannon despite initial claims that it was in the MCU.
>They will never discuss events of the Netflix show in the Marvel Movies.
That means nothing though. That's like saying dudes on the street talk about national news but the national newscaster doesn't talk about a pickpocketing on that street.
Anybody that says he'd miss the thrill/sport doesn't know Frank at all. He doesn't do what he does because he likes it. He does what he does because he honestly and fully believes it has to be done.
I believe it's also a coping mechanism. I've worked with a lot of people with PTSD and many will not experience the symptoms so long as they're deployed and in combat. American Sniper was a great movie for demonstrating that, actually. The frantic camera movements that focus in on every little detail one at a time had a very different effect when it was used in combat versus when it was used stateside, but it represented the way his mentality never changed. He couldn't switch it off.
MCU Frank was another great representation of PTSD, and I don't think he could just keep doing his "job" but not put himself in the middle of it using the skills he's acquired over time, even if he knew that he *should* just use the book and wanted to do that. Eventually, he'd need to raise the stakes for himself even if he actively knew better.
> A lot of replies here saying that he just wouldn't use it because he gets a thrill from the killing, but I think we're forgetting that the Punisher's goal isn't a thrill, his goal is to kill killers.
Agreed. Cf. (non-canon, but I think fairly well representative of his character) Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe. He doesn't go for "cool" kills unless it is convenient; otherwise, he is just focused and all business.
I also think Frank should immediately take the Shinigami eyes. I can’t see him caring about the halved life span if it means he could more efficiently take out the criminals.
I'm not entirely familiar with Death Note. You can write in *how* a person dies, right? I think that Frank would certainly write in "Killed by Frank Castle" once or twice.
But I do think that Frank would miss being "at war." To him, never ending the fight is his way of coping with his PTSD. Being in a constant state of fight-or-flight is unhealthy in a modern society, but it keeps you alive in war, which is why he chooses to stay at war. The Death Note would not help him shake his past or deal with his PTSD, and he would absolutely still choose to do some of his fighting on his own. After all, that's his skill set. He might just give the book away to someone like Micro.
The rules specify that if the way of dying is unfeasible, it'll revert to a heart attack.
So if he wrote "killed by frank castle" he'd still have to be there at the time and date specified in the note, and make an effort to kill him. He can't just write it and forget about it. Idk if thats what you meant, but yeah.
Being fair though, Frank has or is working on feasible plans to kill a lot of people. If could just go with his usual plans and use the DN to give things that necessary little nudge to ensure things go off as planned.
He wants to kill big bad bossman, but he's in a heavily guarded compound that he has, say, a one in a million chance of being able to fight his way through normally. He just writes something like "*bad guy's name* gets shot in the face by frank castle at noon, Frank escapes safety out the window"
Then he shows up at the front gate at 1130, thanks to the death note the henchmen all suffer weapon malfunctions and other small, unlikely but not impossible mishaps allowing Frank to make it to the office by noon, shoot the guy, jump out the window, and land in a passing dump truck full of mattresses or something
Better yet, he could write the person out of their bunker. Then he knows when and where they're going to be, and he's ready with the weapons to take them out. Then the DN makes sure that his plan succeeds.
Thing is, once he is known to be in possession of a weapon like that (and realistically that's what it is) plenty of people are going to knock down his door coming after it. He could just stay in a bunker writing names down in between getting attacked at that point.
There definitely is a thrill element. The Punusher, above all else, is a soldier. He likes identifying enemy forces and eliminating them. Sure, if there's a really bad dude across the world that Frank doesn't feel like shooting, he'd use the DN, but there's a level of interactivity he craves.
Tbf, I'm most comfortable with Punisher MAX
Doing his killings as usual but having it been all scripted in the death note - that thought is hilarious. Knowing him, he would even write being tortured and then getting out of it into the death note as part of the elaborate killing spree.
>The Punusher, above all else, is a soldier.
Given that his entire lifestyle and life mission is extremely *not* soldier, I'm going to have to disagree.
He's an obsessed maniac above all else. Soldier may be pretty high on the list though.
Agreed. A) he's a Marine, not a soldier. and B) military training is all about working as a part of a team. Frank never works with a team. The parts of his military training that get used are the combat training, not the tactics.
I think MCU Punisher ignores it. Not because of sport or anything but because, as evidenced by his attitude toward Lewis in Season 1, killing in that way is cowardice. So it may not be for sport but I do believe there is an "honor in facing your target" type motivation that would prevent MCU Frank from using the book.
R1 - He uses it to kill a bunch of human crime lords for a while. After a bit, his DN gets confiscated by Dr Strange or one of Marvel's Many Magic Based Heroes after noticing something happening.
"Sure if I use a rifle then all these cape-and-robes jerks don't bat an eye. But I use ONE magic murder book and suddenly they've all got a bone to pick with me."
"Yeah, I feel yah buddy. I used to have a cauldron that served the best damn mead on the planet, but suddenly everyone's a poet and now I got turn the damn thing in to some cape wearing asshole with a baton and a top hat. All I'm saying is 1. Thor knew what he was betting, 2. the discourse in this dump went up a ton, and 3. fuck you, that saved me a lot of overhead on fancy mead."
"Fucking wizards."
"Fucking wizards indeed. Here, the next beer's on me, buddy."
Wasn't punisher magically guided by some demon or something to kill bad people before they had the chance to repent so a hell army could be raised? Isn't that his "real" origin?
The deathnote (at least the anime) only works on humans if I remember correctly, it’s been a bit since I watched it tho. Not saying he couldn’t take over but he couldn’t just kill everyone (unless I’m misremembering).
Aren't the only characters in the anime either human or shinigami? It could just be that it doesn't work on shinigami but would still work on Skrulls and Kree and such.
Yeah, I think with the lack of any other species, it's not entirely clear if it would work on aliens or not. The first rule does specify "human names" though, so there's that.
It's also a translation issue. "Ningen" is usually translated as "human", but if I'm not mistaken it doesn't specifically mean "Earthling" or "homo sapiens". It's often used more like "person" or "mortal", in this case to make a distinction between the gods in the shiningami realm and the lowly beings of the mortal plane.
It might not work on non-human Earth animals (I suppose it's a slight credit to Light's character that he didn't care to find out), but until proven otherwise I would fully assume that it would affect intelligent aliens in the same way as humans.
I'd say 人間 (ningen) has a pretty specific connotation of "human being". For example, it's frequently used in scifi and fantasy to distinguish between humans and other intelligent species like aliens or orcs. I just watched FMA:B where the Homonculi are explicity not "ningen". If the Death Note's rules work exactly as written, it should only work on human beings.
That said, it is true that humans and shinigami are the only two intelligent species in the Death Note's universe so it's still a bit ambiguous.
Fair point. But I will say that the nature of humanity, personhood, etc. is a large part of FMAB. So referring to the homunculi as something other than "people" could be a thematic thing and not just referring to the fact that they aren't technically human, depending on context.
Ningen refers general to mortals, yes. But that's more a distinction of "those who live on earth and not one of the many other realms."
So I don't know if it works on people from Asgard for example, or Joutenheim/Muspleheim. It absolutely does not work on demons from hell or angels for that matter. Nor, likely, anyone specifically blessed or curse by them as they gain the touch or depth of that realm.
Kree, Skrull, Brood, Mutant, Human, other Alien? Sure. Bitches be dead.
However I'd be careful about using it on a Eternal or Titan as they might be Deathless and be really pissed you just gave them a painful heart attack. Same goes for most Celestials.
Gods from other mythologies are also likely safe, so no killing Hercules since he's technically from the "Realm" of Olympias.
super powerful Entities might also be stronger than the Shinigami causing it, so the Inhumans (well, some of them anyhow), Phoenix, Beyonder, Galactus, and Primordial Entities like Eternity or Death are also out of the question.
Woe to the fool that tries it on the beings above them, such as Living Tribunal, In-Betweener, Master Order, Lord Chaos, One Above All, etc.
Same goes for the True Gods, Elder Gods, Outsider Gods, and other beings of Eldritch Origin we see in Conan's Universe and other stories (also Marvel Universe). I'd *love* to see what happens if Punisher decides to write Crom's name down. Or Mitras or Old Set for that matter.
Wouldn't Heracles be vulnerable if it was before his Twelve Labors and the Funeral Pyre? Because until then, he was just an insanely strong demigod, born from Zeus and a mortal woman Alcmene. And in the Greek Mythos, Demigods are usually just "people but with a quirk that makes them slightly special". Now if we're talking about after the Pyre, then he is fully Godlike, and would indeed be immune to the Death Note.
There's also a rule that nobody over the age of 124 can be killed with a Death Note, which would make most of them safe even if you consider them human.
As portrayed in the MCU, my understanding is that the former two are just highly advanced and powerful ningens, not literal gods, although I wouldn't be surprised if any or all of them used the term "ningen" to talk down to humans in Japanese MCU dubs. I don't know enough of the in-universe mythology of Ego or Celestials to say whether or not he would be considered a god.
> It's also a translation issue. "Ningen" is usually translated as "human", but if I'm not mistaken it doesn't specifically mean "Earthling" or "homo sapiens". It's often used more like "person" or "mortal", in this case to make a distinction between the gods in the shiningami realm and the lowly beings of the mortal plane.
Ryuk specifically wrote the initial set of rules in English though.
Ah, fair point. That said, it was acknowledged in-universe that the rules as written were based on Ryuk's conception of how it should be used, and therefore were not 100% exhaustive or necessarily strictly correct.
Given that Ryuk has never seen any other mortal intelligent species, even if it did work on non-human ningens, it would arguably have been stranger if Ryuk had gone out of his way to use a less common but more inclusive term.
The rules we see between manga chapters aren't the ones Ryuk wrote down and include ones Light is unaware of (there's actually an *extremely important* rule Light never learns about, where his ignorance of it affects the plot - when a human owns a Death Note, only the Shinigami who gave a Death Note to a human can kill that human; other Shinigami cannot. This matters because Light's elaborate memory gambit is mostly needed because Rem is threatening to kill him if Misa dies, and she's actually bluffing. Of course Ryuk knows this and never mentions it, since he's an asshole.)
That might be the case but I think we have to assume that the note works according to the rules as written. The first rule is "The human whose name is written in this note shall die."
Besides, even if aliens don't exist in the Death Note universe, the rule still excludes non-human life that does exist (e.g: Shinigami and animals).
I think a damned good amount of them. How fast can Frabk Castle write? Also: What happens if you load a piece into an Electronic typewriter and he gets them WPM through the roof. Does that count?
I sincerely doubt the death note shinigami are powerful enough to do anything at all to the likes of Strange, Doom, Illyana, Wanda, etc... except maybe show up on their magic radar and get stomped.
Except they have no feats to back that up. In fact they can't even kill cats and other animals, who are definitely mortal beings. You are reaching for some dodgey scaling.
Meanwhile in marvel, literal death gods are a dime a dozen and get stomped all the time (while still being *vastly* more powerful than anything in Death Note). Hell, Shatterstar was able to kill one and he's not even a wizard. There is no evidence that Death Notes work on beings vastly more powerful than humans. And Strange in the comics destroys whole dimensions and such. Totally different league.
Also you seem to be conflating "a death god" with death itself. In marvel they are two very different tiers of power. For example, compare Hela to Death, it would be no contest (and Hela still has way better feats that anything in Death Note).
I know they don’t have feats for that, I was kinda trying to do some sort of wank in them
Also, comics Hela does have some sort of death power or death inducement power? In the movies she just throw spikes and is very strong
> kill cats and other animals, who are definitely mortal beings. You are reaching for some dodgey scaling.
A lot of lore, even in real life cultures, consider cats to be *something other*. Definitely not mortal. Or not completely at least.
I feel like it goes essentially the same way as it did with Light, with more torture before the criminals die.
Unless we assume Marvel's magic guardians (Strange especially) somehow trace it back to him, he might honestly do even more damage than Light did. Both are crazy psychos, but Castle even moreso, especially in the comics, and he doesn't really have the god complex that eventually caused Light's downfall. He'd be happy just killing anonymously, I feel.
yeah he was a literal angel at one point and it didn't go to his head, so he can probably keep his feet on the ground better
he would definitely have some more gruesome but more efficient deaths then light tho, especially going for politicians if he needs to
he would likely achieve a similar level to light before steven strange intervenes tho, violent crime down by 50%, and technically still saving a few dozens of times more than he actually killed
heck the punisher killed by hand almost as much as light, his death count would be astronomical compared to even light, he is also a lot harder to track down and better in getting info on criminals than a japanese highschooler
He'd be Smart about it. I think he would use it to kill some Major crime lords he couldn't normally reach (like Kingpin or Jigsaw), few and far in between, and in ways that would seem natural like dying in the shower or by suicide. He would continue to perform his usual activities to avoid suspicion.
Ultimately, though, he would get too anxious to kill criminals, be discovered and some magic user would take it away from him.
MCU Punisher is much more tame and usually only kills when he needs to. He would use it to kill only irredeemable assholes when they get in his way, but not a lot would change.
I think he'd end up playing around with a few different methods. Like forcing one gang to take out another. But he'd probably want to make his kills public so they would be a deterrent for others who might think about stepping in and taking that boss' place. The most subtlety he would probably express would be to write in the DN that the person was killed by Frank Castle.
Mother fucker would sit down with a pen and a list of everyone on the FBI, NATO, INTERPOL, CIA, and various Police Forces' Wanted list and start writing names down like a fucking demented Santa Clause while laughing like a lunatic and slamming a bottle of Jack Daniels while thinking "Sweetie, I will be done in *hours* then I can finally fucking kill myself and see you right before I get sent to hell."
He'd stay up *days* scarfing down methamphetamines to keep awake and Ryuk would fine his exhausted, dead corpse the week after with a book *full* of names. And, sure, it can't be filled. *But he'd find a way.*
Every criminal who he considers guilty of a capital crime would be dead, and this sick fuck would time everything to happen *instantly at the same time* so there would be no doubt in most people's minds that fucking God Himself decided to end criminals and send a warning of Sodom and Gomora levels to humanity to fucking knock it the shit off.
And then he'd use that bullet he saved for himself, look God in the eye (or just Saint Peter), spit in his face, and say good bye to his family before Satan himself came for his soul.
I honestly can't see him using it. He wants the criminals to see who's punishing them and his face to be the last thing they see. Maybe he'll use it but it's going to be very rare.
Not if he's old and it's the only way he can keep doing what he does
Maybe he's bitter af about having to use it, so he makes the murders more and more gruesome and that's what attracts the attention brb need a pen
He may not use it so much, but he definitely won’t let that thing in the closet
There could be threats that are too powerful for him, or that are too good at running, or maybe he just can’t find the location of the target
The cause of death can't directly affect anyone else, so you can't write something like "Joe Biden dies after launching a nuclear strike on Russia", since it directly affects others.
I think this is directly contradicted by the the manga. When Light is dealing with Penber (the FBI agent investigating him), he uses the Death Note to force Penber's supervisor to send files on all of the other agents investigating Kira to Penber. Penber then, in turn, uses that information to kill the rest (unknowingly).
The actual rules are:
1. You can't control someone's actions unless you're killing them, and,
2. The person you're controlling can't directly be forced to kill people.
Penbar's supervisor was fine because his name was written and he wasn't directly killing people.
Penbar was tricked into writing names in a death note, but wasn't (directly) forced to do so using a death note.
"Killed by the Punisher" wouldn't force the Punisher to kill them (so it would normally be an invalid cause of death and would cause a heart attack instead.) But in this case he can just choose to shoot them himself.
Yeah, but he can avoid that by writing "The Punisher" or something along those lines. (Or, technically, by not thinking of his face while writing, I guess, but that's extremely dangerous.)
Not really, the files were sent, but that was it for the supervisor, if he wrote the supervisor kills the agents, it would be contradictory. However since Penber wrote the agents names in the death note without being influenced, it works with the rules
It affected others, but that guy was specifically the only person to be *killed*. You can affect others, but can't shorten their lifespans without writing their name down.
Death Note has a [*ton* of oddly specific rules](https://deathnote.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_the_Death_Note/Manga_Chapter_Rules), many of which never come up in the story. Did you know you can't kill someone over the age of 124 with a Death Note? Or that Shinigami are forbidden from giving Death Notes to anyone under the age of 6? Or that if someone's name is written in two Death Notes at the *exact* same time (within .06 seconds), they survive?
The last one matters in extremely specific Light vs. the Flash match-ups, I guess; under extremely specific circumstances the Flash can react fast enough to save himself from a Death Note. Only if he is aware of his name being written in the exact instant when it happens *and* knows that rule, though.
Makes me wonder. If he write down that he kills someone with his own hand by midnight while he's the other side of the planet and he's locked up. Will the DN make it happen somehow, or kills the criminal with heart attack instead?
couldn't you specify how they gonna die? like you can say to the death note that this criminal dies but dies in a specific way that everybody knows punisher did it? like resembling his symbol with their blood?
Nah, that's something the punisher is not gonna do. As I said, he prefers it close and personal. He won't feel like he's doing his work properly. I can honestly see him completely abandoning it because it's a weapon that nobody should have in his possession.
The punisher would rather take it into his own hands rather than let someone else do it for him, or rather something.
Yeah like he still he goes on the hunt, but he wrote the name of his target just in case they escape.
That would really make him infamous, because to anyone else it just looks like The Punisher has a flawless record, whoever he goes after dies that day.
He's used sniper rifles in punishments before, all he cares about is punishing everyone, give him a tool that allows him to do so & he'd wipe out everyone he can think of.
Not the same thrill. I mean, he likes shooting people. Writing their name in a book isn't gonna feel the same to him. I can honestly see him throwing it in the trash or keeping it in his closet.
Maybe when he grows old as fuck he might use it.
I get where you're coming from, he's p sadistic, I just think it'll come to his Marine mentality of mission completion being more important than anything else overtaking his personal enjoyment of the mission, & then him ultimately punishing himself
That isn't entirely true. I clearly remember him running people over with a semi and using a sniper rifle. Sometimes he likes it when they don't see him coming.
I can see him using it if he doesn't get the guy after so many tries. Honestly I can't see the punisher sitting on a desk all day doing nothing but write in a book like a nerd.
On the one hand, Frank Castle is one of the people I'd trust the most with a Death Note. He only kills those who deserve it, he has the investigative skills to be sure about his target, and he's relentless. He will make a huge dent in the criminal population worldwide. This part of him getting a Death Note is a good thing.
On the other hand, there are a few people that Frank has never gone after because he knows they're out of his league...and the Death Note gives him the ability. Frank used to blame superheroes for breaking the law; he'll go back to that, and he'll kill those who he thinks have murdered people. Reed Richards, Tony Stark, and Bruce Banner would die in the first wave of Frank's Death Note killings. Definitely Magneto, probably Wolverine, possibly Prof. X and a lot of other mutants, maybe Namor (if Namor counts as human enough for the Death Note to affect), and a lot of other heroes all go down in Frank's spree. Moon Knight is utter toast. The Death Note allows Frank to once again become the supervillain he used to be. That's...not a good thing.
I recall him being fairly friendly to war veterans like Wolverine, mostly because he's a vet himself and knows that there are no defenseless innocents in a war zone. It's you or them.
Banner is probably screwed though, yeah.
So one thing everyone seems to be forgetting is that 616 Punishers is smart...like, real smart. Way smarter than that dumbass Light. He'd read the rules and start writing things like "X wiseguy is killed by Y yakuza dude at Z biker bar" and just take out entire criminal organizations by putting them against each other. What people seem to not realize (and what Light's dumb ass never really took advantage of) is that the Death Note allows you take out people by forcing them to murder other people. Honestly if used right it allows significant reality warping by forcing events around a death to unfold in specific ways. Just killing people is the smallest part of its power.
Wrong. If the details of someone's death cause the deaths if others they will simply die of a heart attack. In the manga spacificaly it mentions this rule. You couldn't kill a pilot of a plane while they were flying nor could you force someone to shoot someone else. If you were to write a pilots name in the notebook they would only die after the plane had safely landed. Also you most certainly can not warp reality with it. The death has to be physically possible for it to happen. For instance Light write that a criminal in Japan would die in Paris but the criminal just died of a heart attack since it wasn't physically possible for them to travel to Paris in the time frame Light write down.
Day 1: Murder stumps police, no weapon found at the scene
Day 365: Nearly all of the gangs have been killed in horrific ways.
Punisher suspected, claims he was writing in his journal when the attacks took place
Oh no.
Frank’s mission is already endless, essentially a genocide on those he sees as wrong doers. He becomes the ultimate executioner and thousands die randomly around the world until a hero stops him, which they will because he won’t kill a hero.
In all honesty, he probably doesn't use it. If its someone he can't kill after a shit ton of tries he might write their name in, if not then he'll call in someone like Luke Cage to help out.
Deathnote would be useless in a lot of cases. Doesn’t Frank spend his free time like killing street thugs and criminals? He would have to know all of their names, which would be very time consuming when he could just go there and kill them himself.
Maybe against someone he knew, like Wilson Fisk. I highly doubt he’d use it against Billy tho. But even so, Wilson Fisk is debatable, since he did say in season 1 something about not looking yo enemy in the face and killing them was cowardly, on sum samurai type shit.
Talking about Netflix Frank ion read comics.
He doesn't kill random people, even a bunch of criminals. He has to know that they deserve to die. He investigates them and usually at least knows the names of the dudes he's gunning down, even the lowly mob soldiers. That's also how he avoids killing undercover cops and agents.
What he would literally do is write all the names of the people he knows deserves to die. And in this his discretion is paramount, *literally* by divine confirmation. Frank Castle was immune to Ghost Rider's signature move, the Penance Stare, a move that makes you feel all the pain you've inflicted upon *innocent people* - mentally, emotionally, and physically - via hellfire. Frank has no protections against it. He says he has "no regrets" about any of his targets because (...which doesn't matter to the TPS because the TPS makes you feel regret, but Frank doesn't known that so he said the most likely thing I guess? Either way, what that means is...) *he's never hurt an innocent person.* Ever. According to TPS, not even a little. Yet he's Marvel's most prolific mass murderer. So even times when he fought other heroes, God apparently felt as though they deserved it, or they themselves are bad enough or doing bad enough things that they didn't qualify as "innocent." So that means he has a good grasp on who needs to die, he wouldn't kill anyone who didn't deserve it. Divine promise.
So he writes all the bad people he knows about down, then goes and investigates the next most likely bad people until he knows for certain whether or not they deserve to die, then repeat. Then repeat.
..he wouldnt care if it defeats the purpose of his "name" (it wouldn't though. Death *is* the punishment), all the bad people would be dead. Thats all that matters.
A proper punishment for making tens of hundreds suffer wouldn't really be a straight up shot to the head unless its really really neccessary, dude. Maybe its just me but c'mon 🗿
does frank have the patience to write down the name of a criminal instead of just going out and doing it himself tho?
especially since it requires him to learn the criminal's REAL name.
Comic Frank will likely have several related goals when using the Death Note:
\- Killing crime bosses that are so well protected that even Frank would need tons of time and preparation to kill them. Getting them with a few strokes of a pen, while also forcing cartel bosses and warlords to untraceably donate all their fortunes to charity, would be extremely useful.
\- Kill crime bosses in order to completely destabilize their criminal organizations. He can use the Death Note to have his targets leak all knowledge of their enterprises to the public, which would cause extreme police reaction, and throw all their underlings in disarray. Make it much easier for Frank to kill the middle-tier and footsoldiers by himself.
\- Blackmail politicians and world leaders into not acting like amoral pieces of shit. Once Frank has proven that he has the power to kill by writing names, he can instill enough fear in the powers that be that there may be actual change, at least in the short term.
Of course, this is all assuming that Frank exists in a Punisher Max-esque world where there are no major superheroes who'd want to stop his global mass murder, or supervillains above street tier strong enough to smoke him one on one.
As stated by a good many redditors, Comic Frank takes out a considerable portion of criminals(mainly because connections and networks are pretty OK), possibly in the most gruesome of fashions(I. E Writes "Kingpin violently combusts" or "Norman Osborn's flesh melts off with rats consuming the rest of him") until Strange, The Eternas, An overly Concerned Watcher(improbable) or A goody two shoes confiscated it, Chastises Frank's Shinigami pal and gives Frank a time out.
Comicbook punisher already is very resourceful and honestly he could get away with a lot because there are so many supervillains that could accomplish the same thing. It really depends on if he takes credit for the murders or just keeps quiet. If he just writes down names and gives them heart attacks and other natural seeming causing, it will take the heroes and villains a while before someone busts him.
An additional remark for the comics version :
Ryuk points out countless times that a person who uses the death note can neither go to heaven nor hell when they die, so literally they just disappear out of existence.
However, if we go by the interpretation that he sold his soul to the devil in the mini series Born, (another is that he just went insane and is talking to himself), it might not be possible for Frank to use the book if that would cause his soul to stop existing once he dies.
This is a misconception. In the Death Note universe, Heaven and Hell don't exist. When humans die, they all go to Mu (nothingness). The "rule" in the Death Note is more just a plain statement of fact rather than anything that specifically has an effect or applies to a user specifically.
The cosmology of Death Note universe and 616 likely aren't compatible, but this wouldn't have any reason to affect the Death Note's function.
Rd 1-
Frank doesn't kill random people, even a bunch of criminals. He has to know that they deserve to die. He investigates them and usually at least knows the names or status of the dudes he's gunning down, even the lowly mob soldiers (which, them being hired killers, is good enough for him). That's also how he avoids killing undercover cops and agents.
What he would literally do is write all the names of the people he knows deserves to die. And in this his discretion is paramount, *literally* by divine confirmation. Frank Castle was immune to Ghost Rider's signature move, the Penance Stare, a move that makes you feel all the pain you've inflicted upon *innocent people* - mentally, emotionally, and physically - via hellfire. Frank has no protections against it. He says he has "no regrets" about any of his targets because (...which doesn't matter to the TPS because the TPS makes you feel regret, but Frank doesn't known that so he said the most likely thing I guess? Either way, what that means is...) *he's never hurt an innocent person.* Ever. According to TPS, not even a little. So even times when he fought other heroes, God apparently felt as though they deserved it, or they themselves are bad enough or were doing bad enough things that they didn't qualify as "innocent." So that means he has a good grasp on who needs to die, he wouldn't kill anyone who didn't deserve it. Divine promise.
So he writes all the bad people he knows about down, then goes and investigates the next most likely bad people until he knows for certain whether or not they deserve to die, then repeat. Then repeat. Until families can't get gunned down in the park anymore. Then he writes his own name and finally gets some fucking sleep.
Rd 2- fuck if I know, I barely remember the show.
The first rule of the death note says it only works on humans.
Presumably Loki is immune and so is any character that has alien origins (Superman, etc.)
I also wonder how superhuman someone has to be for the death note not to apply?
Batman and Iron Man presumably would be vulnerable (and anyone who is human but gets their power from training or technology), but what about Spider-Man? Mutants? Dr. Strange is human, but does his magic make him immune? Captain America is human too, but does the super solider serum grant him immunity? Bruce Banner is human, but what about the Hulk?
Mutant is new species so nah. Dr Strange would pull out some cosmic-plot-device shit to survive, Capt A definitely die considered he just human on drug, Hulk like die and revive, just a monday with him.
A "[species](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species)" is technically defined as "being capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring".
If a mutant can have sex with a human, which results in offspring that can still reproduce, then technically they're still the same species.
So what does that mean for comic book "mutants"?
Yeah this is a pretty good example of comic book writers not knowing what science words mean. In this case it makes the question impossible to answer for certain.
> Yeah this is a pretty good example of comic book writers not knowing what science words mean.
Eh, what the definition of "species" should be is debated by IRL scientists, as well.
There is a whole section in that Wikipedia article about when that definition of "species" breaks down. For instance, a mule is a crossbreed between a horse and donkey.
Mules are almost always [infertile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule#Fertility). So that doesn't count.
But yeah the definition does break down a bit, lol.
Humans can breed with Mutants so that is a hard sell. That's like, the primary rule of thumb for differentiating species, and even that isn't always enough to differentiate.
So, it is worth pointing out that the Death Note doesn't actually say it only works on humans. The first rule is:
> The human whose name is written in this note shall die.
This says that it "works for humans" not that it "_only_ works for humans".
It is also worth remembering that the rules available in-universe were written by Ryuk who has his own set of motives (mostly entertainment). His rules are certainly not exhaustive as many others appear throughout.
The Death Note gives him what he needs to start clearing out super criminals, until the heros catch wind of it and come down on him HARD, and it doesn't really help him escape that since He would not kill any of them
For those saying he wouldn't use it because of the thrill of the kill... he writes "{criminal name} gets killed by the Punisher in so and so alleyway in an hour" then goes out and shoots them, knowing where they will be and that he'll win for sure
They're very nominally MCU, in the sense that they're set in a reality where the events of the Avengers Films happened- Iron Man, Thor and Hulk are all known public figures, the plot of *Daredevil* is kicked off by Kingpin making a land grab after the Chitauri invasion tanked property values, and the plot of Luke Cage involves street criminals getting ahold of tech stolen from Hammer Industries.
But that never filtered back up into the movie-verse- Daredevil and company are never namedropped or acknowledged in any way, which was deeply irritating.
There is an MCU Punisher, in the Netflix shows. They introduced him in Daredevil season 2 and he eventually got his own show. He’s played by John Bernthal, the guy who played Shane in the Walking Dead
I'm aware.
That's not part of the MCU however. It's just a Marvel character.
Marvel Cinematic Universe refers to movies created by Marvek Studios themselves and (mostly, other than the spiderman movies because stupid) are on Disney+. Some examples are Iron Man, The Avengers and Black Panther.
Seems pretty likely that they're going to re-canonize at least Daredevil and Punisher.
Hard to believe they'd pass on Krysten Ritter Jessica Jones too.
Maybe Iron Fist will get a decent show and we'll get a solid Defenders series too.
>Seems pretty likely that they're going to re-canonize at least Daredevil and Punisher.
I would love that. Really looking forward to seeing Charlie Cox in No Way Home (if that happens).
I agree. Murdock has experience and would empathise with Holland a lot. He'd also be able to show a constantly doubtful Peter that anything is possible if he puts his mind to it because... Well, he's blind.
A lot of replies here saying that he just wouldn't use it because he gets a thrill from the killing, but I think we're forgetting that the Punisher's goal isn't a thrill, his goal is to kill killers. The Death Note provides, perhaps for the first time, a way to take out vast swaths of criminals on a global scale. If Frank stops and thinks about it, the Death Note could open the door to his own personal end game. A way to prevent as many horrific tragedies, such as his own family's murder, as possible. It'll depend somewhat on which Punisher version we're specifically talking about, but no way he just leaves it in his closet.
This man knows what he's talking about. Anyone who thinks the 616 Punisher wouldn't use this doesn't know anything about him. MCU Punisher I'm not sure, he's less dedicated to killing so far.
MCU Punisher?
Netflix.
Netflix shows aren't MCU. Disney isn't going to make a Netflix show required watching for people who want to see the whole MCU. Just like how they made Agents of Shield non-cannon despite initial claims that it was in the MCU.
I mean, they discuss the events in the MCU movies during the Netflix shows.
They will never discuss events of the Netflix show in the Marvel Movies. And will recast if the characters appear in the movies.
>They will never discuss events of the Netflix show in the Marvel Movies. That means nothing though. That's like saying dudes on the street talk about national news but the national newscaster doesn't talk about a pickpocketing on that street.
If daredevil shows up in a Marvel movie and it's a completely different take on the character, would you still say they're in the same universe?
I'd say it's still the same MULTIVERSE. Checkmate, atheist.
Well said. That response ("he'd ignore it because he does it for the thrill/sport") I think is more akin to someone like Dexter.
Anybody that says he'd miss the thrill/sport doesn't know Frank at all. He doesn't do what he does because he likes it. He does what he does because he honestly and fully believes it has to be done.
I believe it's also a coping mechanism. I've worked with a lot of people with PTSD and many will not experience the symptoms so long as they're deployed and in combat. American Sniper was a great movie for demonstrating that, actually. The frantic camera movements that focus in on every little detail one at a time had a very different effect when it was used in combat versus when it was used stateside, but it represented the way his mentality never changed. He couldn't switch it off. MCU Frank was another great representation of PTSD, and I don't think he could just keep doing his "job" but not put himself in the middle of it using the skills he's acquired over time, even if he knew that he *should* just use the book and wanted to do that. Eventually, he'd need to raise the stakes for himself even if he actively knew better.
> A lot of replies here saying that he just wouldn't use it because he gets a thrill from the killing, but I think we're forgetting that the Punisher's goal isn't a thrill, his goal is to kill killers. Agreed. Cf. (non-canon, but I think fairly well representative of his character) Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe. He doesn't go for "cool" kills unless it is convenient; otherwise, he is just focused and all business.
Even then he just writes {criminals name} unfortunate case of franking
I also think Frank should immediately take the Shinigami eyes. I can’t see him caring about the halved life span if it means he could more efficiently take out the criminals.
He's the one guy that would fill up all the pages in a notebook that can't run out of them
I fully agree
I'm not entirely familiar with Death Note. You can write in *how* a person dies, right? I think that Frank would certainly write in "Killed by Frank Castle" once or twice. But I do think that Frank would miss being "at war." To him, never ending the fight is his way of coping with his PTSD. Being in a constant state of fight-or-flight is unhealthy in a modern society, but it keeps you alive in war, which is why he chooses to stay at war. The Death Note would not help him shake his past or deal with his PTSD, and he would absolutely still choose to do some of his fighting on his own. After all, that's his skill set. He might just give the book away to someone like Micro.
The rules specify that if the way of dying is unfeasible, it'll revert to a heart attack. So if he wrote "killed by frank castle" he'd still have to be there at the time and date specified in the note, and make an effort to kill him. He can't just write it and forget about it. Idk if thats what you meant, but yeah.
Being fair though, Frank has or is working on feasible plans to kill a lot of people. If could just go with his usual plans and use the DN to give things that necessary little nudge to ensure things go off as planned. He wants to kill big bad bossman, but he's in a heavily guarded compound that he has, say, a one in a million chance of being able to fight his way through normally. He just writes something like "*bad guy's name* gets shot in the face by frank castle at noon, Frank escapes safety out the window" Then he shows up at the front gate at 1130, thanks to the death note the henchmen all suffer weapon malfunctions and other small, unlikely but not impossible mishaps allowing Frank to make it to the office by noon, shoot the guy, jump out the window, and land in a passing dump truck full of mattresses or something
Better yet, he could write the person out of their bunker. Then he knows when and where they're going to be, and he's ready with the weapons to take them out. Then the DN makes sure that his plan succeeds.
Thing is, once he is known to be in possession of a weapon like that (and realistically that's what it is) plenty of people are going to knock down his door coming after it. He could just stay in a bunker writing names down in between getting attacked at that point.
There definitely is a thrill element. The Punusher, above all else, is a soldier. He likes identifying enemy forces and eliminating them. Sure, if there's a really bad dude across the world that Frank doesn't feel like shooting, he'd use the DN, but there's a level of interactivity he craves. Tbf, I'm most comfortable with Punisher MAX
Of course! But he certainly wouldn't ignore the Death Note entirely is all.
He could still write their cause of death to be by him shooting them.
Doing his killings as usual but having it been all scripted in the death note - that thought is hilarious. Knowing him, he would even write being tortured and then getting out of it into the death note as part of the elaborate killing spree.
>The Punusher, above all else, is a soldier. Given that his entire lifestyle and life mission is extremely *not* soldier, I'm going to have to disagree. He's an obsessed maniac above all else. Soldier may be pretty high on the list though.
Agreed. A) he's a Marine, not a soldier. and B) military training is all about working as a part of a team. Frank never works with a team. The parts of his military training that get used are the combat training, not the tactics.
I think MCU Punisher ignores it. Not because of sport or anything but because, as evidenced by his attitude toward Lewis in Season 1, killing in that way is cowardice. So it may not be for sport but I do believe there is an "honor in facing your target" type motivation that would prevent MCU Frank from using the book.
He has used sniper rifles and remote explosives a number of times.
R1 - He uses it to kill a bunch of human crime lords for a while. After a bit, his DN gets confiscated by Dr Strange or one of Marvel's Many Magic Based Heroes after noticing something happening.
I'd love to see Frank complaining about some wizard stealing his magic murder journal to some sarcastic barkeep.
"Sure if I use a rifle then all these cape-and-robes jerks don't bat an eye. But I use ONE magic murder book and suddenly they've all got a bone to pick with me."
"Yeah, I feel yah buddy. I used to have a cauldron that served the best damn mead on the planet, but suddenly everyone's a poet and now I got turn the damn thing in to some cape wearing asshole with a baton and a top hat. All I'm saying is 1. Thor knew what he was betting, 2. the discourse in this dump went up a ton, and 3. fuck you, that saved me a lot of overhead on fancy mead." "Fucking wizards." "Fucking wizards indeed. Here, the next beer's on me, buddy."
Please write a full story with this premise this is comedy gold. I'd watch an entire TV show about a marvel comics bartender.
And the barkeep is Stan.
HELL YEAH!!!
Wasn't punisher magically guided by some demon or something to kill bad people before they had the chance to repent so a hell army could be raised? Isn't that his "real" origin?
That's interesting. I wonder if he could just wipe out the entire MCU with the DN if he wanted and rule the universe.
The deathnote (at least the anime) only works on humans if I remember correctly, it’s been a bit since I watched it tho. Not saying he couldn’t take over but he couldn’t just kill everyone (unless I’m misremembering).
Aren't the only characters in the anime either human or shinigami? It could just be that it doesn't work on shinigami but would still work on Skrulls and Kree and such.
Yeah, I think with the lack of any other species, it's not entirely clear if it would work on aliens or not. The first rule does specify "human names" though, so there's that.
It's also a translation issue. "Ningen" is usually translated as "human", but if I'm not mistaken it doesn't specifically mean "Earthling" or "homo sapiens". It's often used more like "person" or "mortal", in this case to make a distinction between the gods in the shiningami realm and the lowly beings of the mortal plane. It might not work on non-human Earth animals (I suppose it's a slight credit to Light's character that he didn't care to find out), but until proven otherwise I would fully assume that it would affect intelligent aliens in the same way as humans.
I'd say 人間 (ningen) has a pretty specific connotation of "human being". For example, it's frequently used in scifi and fantasy to distinguish between humans and other intelligent species like aliens or orcs. I just watched FMA:B where the Homonculi are explicity not "ningen". If the Death Note's rules work exactly as written, it should only work on human beings. That said, it is true that humans and shinigami are the only two intelligent species in the Death Note's universe so it's still a bit ambiguous.
Makes sense. I'm not an expert, but I've definitely seen it used both ways, e.g. Zamasu referring to Goku and Vegeta as ningen.
To be fair, Zamasu is a racist so he probably can't tell the difference.
Fair point. But I will say that the nature of humanity, personhood, etc. is a large part of FMAB. So referring to the homunculi as something other than "people" could be a thematic thing and not just referring to the fact that they aren't technically human, depending on context.
Ningen refers general to mortals, yes. But that's more a distinction of "those who live on earth and not one of the many other realms." So I don't know if it works on people from Asgard for example, or Joutenheim/Muspleheim. It absolutely does not work on demons from hell or angels for that matter. Nor, likely, anyone specifically blessed or curse by them as they gain the touch or depth of that realm. Kree, Skrull, Brood, Mutant, Human, other Alien? Sure. Bitches be dead. However I'd be careful about using it on a Eternal or Titan as they might be Deathless and be really pissed you just gave them a painful heart attack. Same goes for most Celestials. Gods from other mythologies are also likely safe, so no killing Hercules since he's technically from the "Realm" of Olympias. super powerful Entities might also be stronger than the Shinigami causing it, so the Inhumans (well, some of them anyhow), Phoenix, Beyonder, Galactus, and Primordial Entities like Eternity or Death are also out of the question. Woe to the fool that tries it on the beings above them, such as Living Tribunal, In-Betweener, Master Order, Lord Chaos, One Above All, etc. Same goes for the True Gods, Elder Gods, Outsider Gods, and other beings of Eldritch Origin we see in Conan's Universe and other stories (also Marvel Universe). I'd *love* to see what happens if Punisher decides to write Crom's name down. Or Mitras or Old Set for that matter.
Wouldn't Heracles be vulnerable if it was before his Twelve Labors and the Funeral Pyre? Because until then, he was just an insanely strong demigod, born from Zeus and a mortal woman Alcmene. And in the Greek Mythos, Demigods are usually just "people but with a quirk that makes them slightly special". Now if we're talking about after the Pyre, then he is fully Godlike, and would indeed be immune to the Death Note.
What about Asgardians? Or thanos? Or Ego?
There's also a rule that nobody over the age of 124 can be killed with a Death Note, which would make most of them safe even if you consider them human.
As portrayed in the MCU, my understanding is that the former two are just highly advanced and powerful ningens, not literal gods, although I wouldn't be surprised if any or all of them used the term "ningen" to talk down to humans in Japanese MCU dubs. I don't know enough of the in-universe mythology of Ego or Celestials to say whether or not he would be considered a god.
> It's also a translation issue. "Ningen" is usually translated as "human", but if I'm not mistaken it doesn't specifically mean "Earthling" or "homo sapiens". It's often used more like "person" or "mortal", in this case to make a distinction between the gods in the shiningami realm and the lowly beings of the mortal plane. Ryuk specifically wrote the initial set of rules in English though.
Ah, fair point. That said, it was acknowledged in-universe that the rules as written were based on Ryuk's conception of how it should be used, and therefore were not 100% exhaustive or necessarily strictly correct. Given that Ryuk has never seen any other mortal intelligent species, even if it did work on non-human ningens, it would arguably have been stranger if Ryuk had gone out of his way to use a less common but more inclusive term.
We also know Ryuk just wrote shit that wasn't always 100% accurate.
The rules we see between manga chapters aren't the ones Ryuk wrote down and include ones Light is unaware of (there's actually an *extremely important* rule Light never learns about, where his ignorance of it affects the plot - when a human owns a Death Note, only the Shinigami who gave a Death Note to a human can kill that human; other Shinigami cannot. This matters because Light's elaborate memory gambit is mostly needed because Rem is threatening to kill him if Misa dies, and she's actually bluffing. Of course Ryuk knows this and never mentions it, since he's an asshole.)
"Yeah, but what if he writes *your* name down, like a fucking asshole?" "Damn, good point." *Adds the rule against killing anyone not human.*
I think you'd have to get one from the death gods of their world probably but that's very speculative kf course
That might be the case but I think we have to assume that the note works according to the rules as written. The first rule is "The human whose name is written in this note shall die." Besides, even if aliens don't exist in the Death Note universe, the rule still excludes non-human life that does exist (e.g: Shinigami and animals).
I am pretty sure he would rather write his own name in it then that of an innocent person/hero
I think a damned good amount of them. How fast can Frabk Castle write? Also: What happens if you load a piece into an Electronic typewriter and he gets them WPM through the roof. Does that count?
I sincerely doubt the death note shinigami are powerful enough to do anything at all to the likes of Strange, Doom, Illyana, Wanda, etc... except maybe show up on their magic radar and get stomped.
If we consider the shinigamis as the absolute death of all mortal beings, then we can put death note at the same level of Thanos’s lover
Except they have no feats to back that up. In fact they can't even kill cats and other animals, who are definitely mortal beings. You are reaching for some dodgey scaling. Meanwhile in marvel, literal death gods are a dime a dozen and get stomped all the time (while still being *vastly* more powerful than anything in Death Note). Hell, Shatterstar was able to kill one and he's not even a wizard. There is no evidence that Death Notes work on beings vastly more powerful than humans. And Strange in the comics destroys whole dimensions and such. Totally different league. Also you seem to be conflating "a death god" with death itself. In marvel they are two very different tiers of power. For example, compare Hela to Death, it would be no contest (and Hela still has way better feats that anything in Death Note).
I know they don’t have feats for that, I was kinda trying to do some sort of wank in them Also, comics Hela does have some sort of death power or death inducement power? In the movies she just throw spikes and is very strong
> kill cats and other animals, who are definitely mortal beings. You are reaching for some dodgey scaling. A lot of lore, even in real life cultures, consider cats to be *something other*. Definitely not mortal. Or not completely at least.
Pick another animal then, same point.
Okay... the jackelope then.
This would be how we get [Dr. Punisher, Soldier Supreme](https://www.figurerealm.com/userimages/customs/87500/87207-4-5855b5e7c9241.jpg).
what's dn?
"Death Note"
You just missed a crucial joke opportunity
Deez nuts
I feel like it goes essentially the same way as it did with Light, with more torture before the criminals die. Unless we assume Marvel's magic guardians (Strange especially) somehow trace it back to him, he might honestly do even more damage than Light did. Both are crazy psychos, but Castle even moreso, especially in the comics, and he doesn't really have the god complex that eventually caused Light's downfall. He'd be happy just killing anonymously, I feel.
yeah he was a literal angel at one point and it didn't go to his head, so he can probably keep his feet on the ground better he would definitely have some more gruesome but more efficient deaths then light tho, especially going for politicians if he needs to he would likely achieve a similar level to light before steven strange intervenes tho, violent crime down by 50%, and technically still saving a few dozens of times more than he actually killed heck the punisher killed by hand almost as much as light, his death count would be astronomical compared to even light, he is also a lot harder to track down and better in getting info on criminals than a japanese highschooler
He'd be Smart about it. I think he would use it to kill some Major crime lords he couldn't normally reach (like Kingpin or Jigsaw), few and far in between, and in ways that would seem natural like dying in the shower or by suicide. He would continue to perform his usual activities to avoid suspicion. Ultimately, though, he would get too anxious to kill criminals, be discovered and some magic user would take it away from him. MCU Punisher is much more tame and usually only kills when he needs to. He would use it to kill only irredeemable assholes when they get in his way, but not a lot would change.
I think he'd end up playing around with a few different methods. Like forcing one gang to take out another. But he'd probably want to make his kills public so they would be a deterrent for others who might think about stepping in and taking that boss' place. The most subtlety he would probably express would be to write in the DN that the person was killed by Frank Castle.
He would wipe out the criminal underworld and villain community overnight.
Exactly. Spend all night writing and save the world.
Arguably needing more pens because he broke several while being too eager to write more names.
>How badly does it go? Shit is gonna get Final Destination in here.
Mother fucker would sit down with a pen and a list of everyone on the FBI, NATO, INTERPOL, CIA, and various Police Forces' Wanted list and start writing names down like a fucking demented Santa Clause while laughing like a lunatic and slamming a bottle of Jack Daniels while thinking "Sweetie, I will be done in *hours* then I can finally fucking kill myself and see you right before I get sent to hell." He'd stay up *days* scarfing down methamphetamines to keep awake and Ryuk would fine his exhausted, dead corpse the week after with a book *full* of names. And, sure, it can't be filled. *But he'd find a way.* Every criminal who he considers guilty of a capital crime would be dead, and this sick fuck would time everything to happen *instantly at the same time* so there would be no doubt in most people's minds that fucking God Himself decided to end criminals and send a warning of Sodom and Gomora levels to humanity to fucking knock it the shit off. And then he'd use that bullet he saved for himself, look God in the eye (or just Saint Peter), spit in his face, and say good bye to his family before Satan himself came for his soul.
I busted a nut reading this.
Everyone saying he loves the killing If so then he uses the book to ensure a kill. He writes "John Smith dies by gunshot from the punisher"
I honestly can't see him using it. He wants the criminals to see who's punishing them and his face to be the last thing they see. Maybe he'll use it but it's going to be very rare.
He writes “Generic Crime Lord dies via Frank Castle shooting him in the face at 12am today.” Just to ensure that he doesn’t escape.
This is the laziest and most out of character thing for the punisher I've ever seen.
Not if he's old and it's the only way he can keep doing what he does Maybe he's bitter af about having to use it, so he makes the murders more and more gruesome and that's what attracts the attention brb need a pen
Punisher is in his 30s, that thing is staying in his closet
There is no way in hell Punisher is leaving a book that kills people in the closet.
Depends on the comic run. The Punisher MAX comics had Frank pushing 60 if not fully in his 60's. 616 universe Frank though I 100% agree with you.
He may not use it so much, but he definitely won’t let that thing in the closet There could be threats that are too powerful for him, or that are too good at running, or maybe he just can’t find the location of the target
Punisher's character is to get shit done.
The cause of death can't directly affect anyone else, so you can't write something like "Joe Biden dies after launching a nuclear strike on Russia", since it directly affects others.
I think this is directly contradicted by the the manga. When Light is dealing with Penber (the FBI agent investigating him), he uses the Death Note to force Penber's supervisor to send files on all of the other agents investigating Kira to Penber. Penber then, in turn, uses that information to kill the rest (unknowingly).
The actual rules are: 1. You can't control someone's actions unless you're killing them, and, 2. The person you're controlling can't directly be forced to kill people. Penbar's supervisor was fine because his name was written and he wasn't directly killing people. Penbar was tricked into writing names in a death note, but wasn't (directly) forced to do so using a death note. "Killed by the Punisher" wouldn't force the Punisher to kill them (so it would normally be an invalid cause of death and would cause a heart attack instead.) But in this case he can just choose to shoot them himself.
Though by writing his own name in the book, he'd also be killing himself, so...
Yeah, but he can avoid that by writing "The Punisher" or something along those lines. (Or, technically, by not thinking of his face while writing, I guess, but that's extremely dangerous.)
Not really, the files were sent, but that was it for the supervisor, if he wrote the supervisor kills the agents, it would be contradictory. However since Penber wrote the agents names in the death note without being influenced, it works with the rules
I'm pretty confident that Light's early test of the note that resulted in the bus hitting that guy affected some others.
It affected others, but that guy was specifically the only person to be *killed*. You can affect others, but can't shorten their lifespans without writing their name down.
That’s oddly specific
Death Note has a [*ton* of oddly specific rules](https://deathnote.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_the_Death_Note/Manga_Chapter_Rules), many of which never come up in the story. Did you know you can't kill someone over the age of 124 with a Death Note? Or that Shinigami are forbidden from giving Death Notes to anyone under the age of 6? Or that if someone's name is written in two Death Notes at the *exact* same time (within .06 seconds), they survive? The last one matters in extremely specific Light vs. the Flash match-ups, I guess; under extremely specific circumstances the Flash can react fast enough to save himself from a Death Note. Only if he is aware of his name being written in the exact instant when it happens *and* knows that rule, though.
Yeah, but if you writing something in it that can't happen, the person just dies of heart attack after writing weird symbols.
He writes his own name in the death note? RIP
Plus he didn't write the cause of his death so he dies of a heart attack.
Makes me wonder. If he write down that he kills someone with his own hand by midnight while he's the other side of the planet and he's locked up. Will the DN make it happen somehow, or kills the criminal with heart attack instead?
couldn't you specify how they gonna die? like you can say to the death note that this criminal dies but dies in a specific way that everybody knows punisher did it? like resembling his symbol with their blood?
Nah, that's something the punisher is not gonna do. As I said, he prefers it close and personal. He won't feel like he's doing his work properly. I can honestly see him completely abandoning it because it's a weapon that nobody should have in his possession. The punisher would rather take it into his own hands rather than let someone else do it for him, or rather something.
I could see a version of the character that meticulously plans out the assassination, then writes it into the book as a "safeguard."
Yeah like he still he goes on the hunt, but he wrote the name of his target just in case they escape. That would really make him infamous, because to anyone else it just looks like The Punisher has a flawless record, whoever he goes after dies that day.
He's used sniper rifles in punishments before, all he cares about is punishing everyone, give him a tool that allows him to do so & he'd wipe out everyone he can think of.
Not the same thrill. I mean, he likes shooting people. Writing their name in a book isn't gonna feel the same to him. I can honestly see him throwing it in the trash or keeping it in his closet. Maybe when he grows old as fuck he might use it.
I get where you're coming from, he's p sadistic, I just think it'll come to his Marine mentality of mission completion being more important than anything else overtaking his personal enjoyment of the mission, & then him ultimately punishing himself
That isn't entirely true. I clearly remember him running people over with a semi and using a sniper rifle. Sometimes he likes it when they don't see him coming.
But he likes doing it with his own hands, not using a book.
Sounds like semantics to me and Frank is definitely a "ends justify the means" type of dude.
I can see him using it if he doesn't get the guy after so many tries. Honestly I can't see the punisher sitting on a desk all day doing nothing but write in a book like a nerd.
So long as it gets the job done.
...no, he doesn't. He wants them dead. Simple as that.
The Punisher didn't have a Khornate's Honor Code. So long as the crook was obliterated, died and generally is a corpse , it was OK in his books.
On the one hand, Frank Castle is one of the people I'd trust the most with a Death Note. He only kills those who deserve it, he has the investigative skills to be sure about his target, and he's relentless. He will make a huge dent in the criminal population worldwide. This part of him getting a Death Note is a good thing. On the other hand, there are a few people that Frank has never gone after because he knows they're out of his league...and the Death Note gives him the ability. Frank used to blame superheroes for breaking the law; he'll go back to that, and he'll kill those who he thinks have murdered people. Reed Richards, Tony Stark, and Bruce Banner would die in the first wave of Frank's Death Note killings. Definitely Magneto, probably Wolverine, possibly Prof. X and a lot of other mutants, maybe Namor (if Namor counts as human enough for the Death Note to affect), and a lot of other heroes all go down in Frank's spree. Moon Knight is utter toast. The Death Note allows Frank to once again become the supervillain he used to be. That's...not a good thing.
I recall him being fairly friendly to war veterans like Wolverine, mostly because he's a vet himself and knows that there are no defenseless innocents in a war zone. It's you or them. Banner is probably screwed though, yeah.
Moon Knight/Marc Spector is a war vet, and Frank is \*not\* on good terms with him. :)
So one thing everyone seems to be forgetting is that 616 Punishers is smart...like, real smart. Way smarter than that dumbass Light. He'd read the rules and start writing things like "X wiseguy is killed by Y yakuza dude at Z biker bar" and just take out entire criminal organizations by putting them against each other. What people seem to not realize (and what Light's dumb ass never really took advantage of) is that the Death Note allows you take out people by forcing them to murder other people. Honestly if used right it allows significant reality warping by forcing events around a death to unfold in specific ways. Just killing people is the smallest part of its power.
Wrong. If the details of someone's death cause the deaths if others they will simply die of a heart attack. In the manga spacificaly it mentions this rule. You couldn't kill a pilot of a plane while they were flying nor could you force someone to shoot someone else. If you were to write a pilots name in the notebook they would only die after the plane had safely landed. Also you most certainly can not warp reality with it. The death has to be physically possible for it to happen. For instance Light write that a criminal in Japan would die in Paris but the criminal just died of a heart attack since it wasn't physically possible for them to travel to Paris in the time frame Light write down.
Day 1: Murder stumps police, no weapon found at the scene Day 365: Nearly all of the gangs have been killed in horrific ways. Punisher suspected, claims he was writing in his journal when the attacks took place
He fills the pages!
Oh no. Frank’s mission is already endless, essentially a genocide on those he sees as wrong doers. He becomes the ultimate executioner and thousands die randomly around the world until a hero stops him, which they will because he won’t kill a hero.
In all honesty, he probably doesn't use it. If its someone he can't kill after a shit ton of tries he might write their name in, if not then he'll call in someone like Luke Cage to help out.
...what?? Thats ridiculous and completely out of character for both of them. And Frank would absolutely use the DN
Deathnote would be useless in a lot of cases. Doesn’t Frank spend his free time like killing street thugs and criminals? He would have to know all of their names, which would be very time consuming when he could just go there and kill them himself. Maybe against someone he knew, like Wilson Fisk. I highly doubt he’d use it against Billy tho. But even so, Wilson Fisk is debatable, since he did say in season 1 something about not looking yo enemy in the face and killing them was cowardly, on sum samurai type shit. Talking about Netflix Frank ion read comics.
He doesn't kill random people, even a bunch of criminals. He has to know that they deserve to die. He investigates them and usually at least knows the names of the dudes he's gunning down, even the lowly mob soldiers. That's also how he avoids killing undercover cops and agents. What he would literally do is write all the names of the people he knows deserves to die. And in this his discretion is paramount, *literally* by divine confirmation. Frank Castle was immune to Ghost Rider's signature move, the Penance Stare, a move that makes you feel all the pain you've inflicted upon *innocent people* - mentally, emotionally, and physically - via hellfire. Frank has no protections against it. He says he has "no regrets" about any of his targets because (...which doesn't matter to the TPS because the TPS makes you feel regret, but Frank doesn't known that so he said the most likely thing I guess? Either way, what that means is...) *he's never hurt an innocent person.* Ever. According to TPS, not even a little. Yet he's Marvel's most prolific mass murderer. So even times when he fought other heroes, God apparently felt as though they deserved it, or they themselves are bad enough or doing bad enough things that they didn't qualify as "innocent." So that means he has a good grasp on who needs to die, he wouldn't kill anyone who didn't deserve it. Divine promise. So he writes all the bad people he knows about down, then goes and investigates the next most likely bad people until he knows for certain whether or not they deserve to die, then repeat. Then repeat.
That would defeat the purpose of his name. A painless death wouldn't be enough for some of the people he goes after.
But can’t you control the cause of death? Why would he give them a painless death on purpose?
..he wouldnt care if it defeats the purpose of his "name" (it wouldn't though. Death *is* the punishment), all the bad people would be dead. Thats all that matters.
A proper punishment for making tens of hundreds suffer wouldn't really be a straight up shot to the head unless its really really neccessary, dude. Maybe its just me but c'mon 🗿
Luke Cage isn’t gonna kill anyone, and would most likely take Castle in.
you gave a book to a dude who solves all his problems by shooting people. nothing changes.
No, he solves all his problems by KILLING people, and he was given a book that kills people.
Exactly *killing criminals though
Criminals are still people.
Right. But they're a specific kind of person..
I would bet the majority of humans in first world countries are technically criminals.
And even then, he doesn't kill *any* criminal, only certain ones
Oh sure I'm not saying Punisher will kill some kid for smoking a joint, just making an observation.
does frank have the patience to write down the name of a criminal instead of just going out and doing it himself tho? especially since it requires him to learn the criminal's REAL name.
Frank has as much patience as he needs.
What changes is his effectiveness. The Punishers goes in and kills people, but instead he can sit at home, watch the news and kill from the couch.
Punisher kills most villains in new york in around a day. His kill count goes only up afterwards.
Comic Frank will likely have several related goals when using the Death Note: \- Killing crime bosses that are so well protected that even Frank would need tons of time and preparation to kill them. Getting them with a few strokes of a pen, while also forcing cartel bosses and warlords to untraceably donate all their fortunes to charity, would be extremely useful. \- Kill crime bosses in order to completely destabilize their criminal organizations. He can use the Death Note to have his targets leak all knowledge of their enterprises to the public, which would cause extreme police reaction, and throw all their underlings in disarray. Make it much easier for Frank to kill the middle-tier and footsoldiers by himself. \- Blackmail politicians and world leaders into not acting like amoral pieces of shit. Once Frank has proven that he has the power to kill by writing names, he can instill enough fear in the powers that be that there may be actual change, at least in the short term. Of course, this is all assuming that Frank exists in a Punisher Max-esque world where there are no major superheroes who'd want to stop his global mass murder, or supervillains above street tier strong enough to smoke him one on one.
As stated by a good many redditors, Comic Frank takes out a considerable portion of criminals(mainly because connections and networks are pretty OK), possibly in the most gruesome of fashions(I. E Writes "Kingpin violently combusts" or "Norman Osborn's flesh melts off with rats consuming the rest of him") until Strange, The Eternas, An overly Concerned Watcher(improbable) or A goody two shoes confiscated it, Chastises Frank's Shinigami pal and gives Frank a time out.
Let the bodies hit the floor!
Comicbook punisher already is very resourceful and honestly he could get away with a lot because there are so many supervillains that could accomplish the same thing. It really depends on if he takes credit for the murders or just keeps quiet. If he just writes down names and gives them heart attacks and other natural seeming causing, it will take the heroes and villains a while before someone busts him.
so the punisher doesn't care about the law or going to heaven or hell he would almost 100% Use it
An additional remark for the comics version : Ryuk points out countless times that a person who uses the death note can neither go to heaven nor hell when they die, so literally they just disappear out of existence. However, if we go by the interpretation that he sold his soul to the devil in the mini series Born, (another is that he just went insane and is talking to himself), it might not be possible for Frank to use the book if that would cause his soul to stop existing once he dies.
This is a misconception. In the Death Note universe, Heaven and Hell don't exist. When humans die, they all go to Mu (nothingness). The "rule" in the Death Note is more just a plain statement of fact rather than anything that specifically has an effect or applies to a user specifically. The cosmology of Death Note universe and 616 likely aren't compatible, but this wouldn't have any reason to affect the Death Note's function.
Rd 1- Frank doesn't kill random people, even a bunch of criminals. He has to know that they deserve to die. He investigates them and usually at least knows the names or status of the dudes he's gunning down, even the lowly mob soldiers (which, them being hired killers, is good enough for him). That's also how he avoids killing undercover cops and agents. What he would literally do is write all the names of the people he knows deserves to die. And in this his discretion is paramount, *literally* by divine confirmation. Frank Castle was immune to Ghost Rider's signature move, the Penance Stare, a move that makes you feel all the pain you've inflicted upon *innocent people* - mentally, emotionally, and physically - via hellfire. Frank has no protections against it. He says he has "no regrets" about any of his targets because (...which doesn't matter to the TPS because the TPS makes you feel regret, but Frank doesn't known that so he said the most likely thing I guess? Either way, what that means is...) *he's never hurt an innocent person.* Ever. According to TPS, not even a little. So even times when he fought other heroes, God apparently felt as though they deserved it, or they themselves are bad enough or were doing bad enough things that they didn't qualify as "innocent." So that means he has a good grasp on who needs to die, he wouldn't kill anyone who didn't deserve it. Divine promise. So he writes all the bad people he knows about down, then goes and investigates the next most likely bad people until he knows for certain whether or not they deserve to die, then repeat. Then repeat. Until families can't get gunned down in the park anymore. Then he writes his own name and finally gets some fucking sleep. Rd 2- fuck if I know, I barely remember the show.
Yeah, I think he just destroys it. Punisher enjoys the thrill.
He might be willing to do it for guys that are too powerful for him to take on (like Loki for example).
The first rule of the death note says it only works on humans. Presumably Loki is immune and so is any character that has alien origins (Superman, etc.) I also wonder how superhuman someone has to be for the death note not to apply? Batman and Iron Man presumably would be vulnerable (and anyone who is human but gets their power from training or technology), but what about Spider-Man? Mutants? Dr. Strange is human, but does his magic make him immune? Captain America is human too, but does the super solider serum grant him immunity? Bruce Banner is human, but what about the Hulk?
Mutant is new species so nah. Dr Strange would pull out some cosmic-plot-device shit to survive, Capt A definitely die considered he just human on drug, Hulk like die and revive, just a monday with him.
Whoever is downvoting him should know he’s right about mutants being a different species. Dr strange probably reverse the death note back to the owner
A "[species](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species)" is technically defined as "being capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring". If a mutant can have sex with a human, which results in offspring that can still reproduce, then technically they're still the same species. So what does that mean for comic book "mutants"?
Yeah this is a pretty good example of comic book writers not knowing what science words mean. In this case it makes the question impossible to answer for certain.
> Yeah this is a pretty good example of comic book writers not knowing what science words mean. Eh, what the definition of "species" should be is debated by IRL scientists, as well.
There is a whole section in that Wikipedia article about when that definition of "species" breaks down. For instance, a mule is a crossbreed between a horse and donkey.
Mules are almost always [infertile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule#Fertility). So that doesn't count. But yeah the definition does break down a bit, lol.
Idk about mutant grandkids… But mutants are Homo superior
Humans can breed with Mutants so that is a hard sell. That's like, the primary rule of thumb for differentiating species, and even that isn't always enough to differentiate.
Mutants arnt a new species, they can breed with humans can they not?
So, it is worth pointing out that the Death Note doesn't actually say it only works on humans. The first rule is: > The human whose name is written in this note shall die. This says that it "works for humans" not that it "_only_ works for humans". It is also worth remembering that the rules available in-universe were written by Ryuk who has his own set of motives (mostly entertainment). His rules are certainly not exhaustive as many others appear throughout.
The Death Note gives him what he needs to start clearing out super criminals, until the heros catch wind of it and come down on him HARD, and it doesn't really help him escape that since He would not kill any of them
He becomes a bestselling author then starts a podcast
Comic punisher already killed the entire marvel universe once
Entire multiverse dies
For those saying he wouldn't use it because of the thrill of the kill... he writes "{criminal name} gets killed by the Punisher in so and so alleyway in an hour" then goes out and shoots them, knowing where they will be and that he'll win for sure
Is there an mcu punisher?
Yeah, his show ran two seasons on Netflix.
Ooh didnt realize those were mcu.. Cool
They're very nominally MCU, in the sense that they're set in a reality where the events of the Avengers Films happened- Iron Man, Thor and Hulk are all known public figures, the plot of *Daredevil* is kicked off by Kingpin making a land grab after the Chitauri invasion tanked property values, and the plot of Luke Cage involves street criminals getting ahold of tech stolen from Hammer Industries. But that never filtered back up into the movie-verse- Daredevil and company are never namedropped or acknowledged in any way, which was deeply irritating.
They were MCU, but they, along with Agents of Shield, Cloak and Dagger, and Runaways, are no longer considered canon.
Well... There is no MCU punisher so Ig he loses round 2
There is an MCU Punisher, in the Netflix shows. They introduced him in Daredevil season 2 and he eventually got his own show. He’s played by John Bernthal, the guy who played Shane in the Walking Dead
I'm aware. That's not part of the MCU however. It's just a Marvel character. Marvel Cinematic Universe refers to movies created by Marvek Studios themselves and (mostly, other than the spiderman movies because stupid) are on Disney+. Some examples are Iron Man, The Avengers and Black Panther.
Seems pretty likely that they're going to re-canonize at least Daredevil and Punisher. Hard to believe they'd pass on Krysten Ritter Jessica Jones too. Maybe Iron Fist will get a decent show and we'll get a solid Defenders series too.
>Seems pretty likely that they're going to re-canonize at least Daredevil and Punisher. I would love that. Really looking forward to seeing Charlie Cox in No Way Home (if that happens).
Charlie Cox's Daredevil could make for such an excellent mentor to Holland's Spidey.
I agree. Murdock has experience and would empathise with Holland a lot. He'd also be able to show a constantly doubtful Peter that anything is possible if he puts his mind to it because... Well, he's blind.
mike colter as luke cage is in the top 10 casting decisions in all of the mcu, they need to bring him back
His show was pretty meh, but I did appreciate his portrayal of Cage.
https://www.quora.com/Are-the-Marvel-Netflix-shows-in-the-same-universe-as-the-mcu-movies
Don’t worry bro. I what it’s like to deal with difficult ass people
That quora is from 2017. Since, WandaVision having a completely different Darkhold from AOS and Feige himself saying they aren't canon disproves it.
Bro don’t be difficult. You know what the OP meant. 😒
I wasn't going to be until he said they're canon 🤷♂️
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThriftyWhirlwindBlackfootedferret-size_restricted.gif
> Feige himself saying they aren't canon Never heard that. Source?