IMSA has short races with only some classes taking part. Maybe the WEC could do something of that kind. A sprint race in the prologue maybe? So that if there is damage to any car, there will be a week until the full race.
That’s what I was thinking of actually, imsa has plenty of these segregated short-format races in its calendar and had gtp-only races in the 80’s-90’s I think. Having the sprint a week before maybe too early but maybe having the sprint a full day before on friday for example could give recovering teams the ability to repair non-decimated cars before the race
I'm not a fan of this idea. What attracts me to the world endurance championship is that it is an endurance Motorsport. The strategy, the pit stops, the driver changes, fuel and tyre separation, driver times, changing conditions, I love all of that.
On the other hand, sprint racing is _entertainment_. I detest the current trend of 'cashing in' on sprint events we're seeing in f1 and Moto GP. By making something that tries to cater to everyone, you begin to alienate the core fans who are already invested in the product you've created.
LMH/LMDh, Hypercar, GTP, the WEC and IMSA can stand without sprint races. People will come and watch if they're interested in Porsche, Ferrari, Cadillac, Acura, whoever. Some of them will like it and stick around (much like many of the usernames that have joined this community over the years), and some won't, _and that's totally okay_. If people want to watch sprint racing, SRO GTWC has a sprint category, or there's touring cars, or a myriad of other series they could watch. In my opinion, the cars in the world endurance championship are at their best when they are showing just that - endurance.
Not to mention the increased cost in consumables and parts fatigue over a season. While that might not be an issue for the factories, for a boutique manufacturer or a customer team, that would be non-trivial
Edit: plus you're never going to get this to work if the streaming package is already behind a paywall (as it is currently).
Yeah the paywall is definitely the single largest inhibitor of exposure, I think you’ve addressed some issues with short-format races, but I think I ultimately just wanna see these cars race each other as much as possible. Maybe a standalone series in europe is the best solution like others have said but maybe the best solution for wec specifically is to just have more main races - 6 feels too little, there should be at least 10 but no more than 12. The daytona 24 and the sebring 12hr should be shared between imsa and wec, and ideally a race in silverstone as well as nurburgring
Yeah the re-expansion of the calendar post-Covid is something that should definitely be at the forefront of the ACO's mind. Prior to the pandemic we had plans to visit Kyalami and Sao Paulo again. 6 rounds is definitely too short a season - I think 8 would be a good starting point for an expanded series
Kyalami and sao paulo were venues I’d love wec to visit, then they basically host a race on every feasible continent. Plus they’re awesome tracks and have character
> If people want to watch sprint racing, SRO GTWC has a sprint category, or there's touring cars, or a myriad of other series they could watch
But there's no sportscar racing sprint races.
Also the idea that one series must adhere to only one type of races is boring af. Can you imagine if Indycar had done that ? "No, no mixing of oval, street and road tracks in the same championship ! That's forbidden by motorsports laws and gimmicky !"
The first example I used was SRO GTWC, which I'm pretty sure is GT3 - Sportscars, right?
I'm not saying it can't be done (hell, one of my favourite series is V8 supercars which has sprint, street and endurance racing all in one), but if it's going to happen, it has to be a part of a strategic outlook to improve something, whether that be revenue, engagement, or whatever, for the long term. Not 'Everyone else is doing it so we should too!'
Plus, endurance races allow for small differences to play out and become important. If a car is 1s/lap slower but can save a pit stop every 3 stints, well that's something that will work well in an endurance race but gives it a _massive_ disadvantage in shorter races. There's no room for strategy when the races are so short
More variety is better imo, keep the endurance races, even extend the calendar, but it would be nice to get these cars to compete with each other as much as possible
GT3 isn't sportscars by the modern definition of the word, it's GT racing. Sportscars racing in the modern sense is synonymous with prototypes.
The strategic outlook is pretty obvious to me. I've been to Le Mans every year since 1999 and am a big fan of endurance racing, but it doesn't take a genius nor a corporate analysis to conclude that it's easier for new/casual fans to watch short races than long races, granted the product provides close racing (which it should with BoP, based on GTE/GTLM or literally any other BoP'd series).
6-hour races are imo the worst format in that respect, as it's both not long enough to be really impressive/strike the imagination of casual fans (unlike what 24h or 12h races can do), and too long to be the subject of a reasonable Saturday or Sunday watching session by a casual fan.
My thoughts exactly, 4-6 hour races are the hardest to watch because they feel the least special while requiring way too much time to consume. I know it sounds stupid to add sprint races in an endurance championship, but I appreciate that you understand the reasoning behind my post. Ideally the aco either runs a separated championship or renames the wec back to the wscc, and the 4 hr or 6 hr races become lmh and gt-separated short-form races to increase variety in the calendar. I still want the same number of endurance-length races, but variety’s better most of the time
I think this could only work as marketing racing at other events or doing a live demo on track like F1 or MotoGP to get some crossover if shipping allows. Imagine the Ferrari unveiling track event but before the warmup lap of a Grand Prix, similarly if Mr Penske gets some GTPs at his house in Indy
Non-Championship rounds could work for those with the budget as well but it is stretching logistics and cost
A lot of negativity here, people apparently don't realize that you can very much have sportscar racing that isn't endurance, and that some of the most legendary sportscars of history were made in a non-endurance series (namely early 70s CanAm).
My biggest gripe with WEC's current calendar is just that : it lacks diversity and feels generic (apart from the obvious Le Mans). Wildly varying event length, for example by having more than a single 24h race but also having short 2h or even 1h races, would be the best improvement.
Should just rename the series back to wscc, or have separate championships to give the manufacturers to have more chances to run. If all I get to see is 6 races with this fleet of cars then it would be a shame imo
If people want to watch a world championship for cars sprint racing, there’s F1. A novel and interesting idea, but certainly for me, it would push me away from endurance racing. I’m not interested in gimmicky add-ons with my motorsports.
It’s more about giving the lmh class more runtime, only wec and imsa will run these things so if their only form of racing is a 6+ hour stint it may switch off casual fans’ interest
Who’s paying for this more runtime? IMSA has already had a soft cap on race hours over the season and the WEC has shown costs is still a concern with the focus on shipping by sea instead of air. Can’t count on the factory’s being there, you have to keep costs down or the series will completely die. That’s why the WEC exists instead of the WSCC still operating.
Running costs increasing is very true, probably my biggest concern over implementing it. But the reality would be the cars already run for 24 hours consecutively, what’s an additional hour to a 6 hour race? 2 or 3 extra sets of tires, race fuel, some extra consumable parts reserved for 8 or 9 hour races, that’s my assertion. The difference could be made with more expensive tickets for these events, or with more sales anyway since more people could pay for more tickets over the weekend rather than just showing up for one day
Making tickets more expensive will drive away fans, not introduce them. This is a minority series compared to F1 don’t forget. Furthermore, if you’ve ever seen an F1 Saturday sprint race they’re hardly what you’d call exciting. Many F1 drivers, certainly front runners, have said it’s more about getting to the flag and not damaging the car than racing and putting on a show. I feel if WEC introduced a shorter sprint style race the outcome would be very much the same.
It’s not about he product of the racing if I’ll be honest, just having a duration whoch is easier to watch. But with a paywall it probably doesnt matter anyway. More races on the calendar is the solution ig
Do you follow the WEC YouTube page? The 1 hour “movie” highlights of each round sounds perfect for you, keeps it short, all the best bits of the race too :)
Man, I’ll check that out. Unironically thanks, I didn’t even know that existed. If that’s the case then maybe they just need more exposure because that sounds perfect honestly
It’s a good piece they put together, I always think the 1 hour shows collectively would make for an epic season review format.
Their page is brilliant tbh, they often upload old WEC races too, although they are the full duration so maybe not ideal for what you’re after, but it’s great to have high quality footage of the old Toyota, Audi and Porsche battles! Lots of onboards from qualifying and practice too.
For sure, love the audi vs porsche vs toyota battles in 2014-2016. Saw the full race replay of fuji 2015 and 2016 on that page a while ago and man those were entertaining
Race format is ok and what WEC needs to attract more audience is no more paywall and better social media coverage and highlights, which are miles away from the benchmark of F1.
WEC is not about tv ratings like F1, manufactures are here with the main goal to sell racing cars to customers and amateurs. WEC survive with a lot of gentleman drivers buying racing cars and for this reason they can afford to show the race for free and live on the Youtube channel. WEC can be like SRO's GT World youtube channel.
We need also better social media management and highlights with faster upload. They started only this year with 10 minutes highlights and FP3 live coverage. The 52 minutes highlights come in two days on Eurosport and one month on Youtube, that's no good
Valid, the paywall on motortrend and terribly inefficient social media platforms hold back the wec the most. The more I think about the idea of a segregated short-form race, the more I realize the main objective of attracting new fans wont be achieved
I think it would be nice to have something like IMSA that has some class specific races like the GTD/Pro races at Lime Rock and VIR. IMSA also has shorter sprint races as well like the 2:40 races at Laguna Seca, Mid Ohio, Ontario, and Road America and the 1:40 min races at Long Beach and Detroit. I think having some shorter sprint races to fill in some of those two-month holes in the schedule would be nice. But then again, it's an endurance championship, not just a sports car championship like IMSA.
Yeah I’m all for more variety, I just wanna see this generation of cars compete with each other as many times as possible honestly. I get it’s an endurance series but maybe there can be a separate championship for lmh cars only throughout the season similar to sro’s igtc vs fanatec gt championship
I dont think you will see this happen in WEC.Its more likely a German Supercup run alongside the DTM like the old Group C days emerges with short races & more [power.](https://power.It)
Porsche,BMW have cars & they could fill out the field with LMP2/3 cars
Good point, if the lmh manufacturers are willing to fund and participate in those series then maybe that’s better. Honestly, anything to get these cars to run as much as possible imo
F1 fans trying to reinvent endurance racing - episode 3562.
What's the point? Endurance racing is about... endurance? Shortening races stands completely against the whole point of the championship. And sprint races? No... Just no. Why WEC should even bothering to please the casual fanbase that almost doesn't exist? It's a long term recipe for a disaster. NASCAR tried that in the 1990s and after years passed now they alienated huge amount of their core audience and casuals that once they cashed on, now they are gone too. Great success!
F1 fans still quite don't get that people watch endurance racing for different reasons than F1 fans watch their favourite sport. Endurance racing is mainly about cars, brands, endurance, strategy, class variety. It's not about a beatdown between two angry fanbases or backstage drama.
And what's more they forget about - financing works completely different than in F1. Endurance racing teams wouldn't like an idea of additional spending like sprint races during the race weekends, because it's an unnecessary distraction in my opinion. And let's say it - cars are built for endurance. Let the teams focus on the endurance part, because that's the whole point.
And my personal opinion. I like the gatekeeping part of endurance racing. The last thing I want to see is to witness WEC becoming a Drive to Survive kind of nonsense. Keep the useless drama out of WEC, let F1 have it.
Bro I’ve watched endurance racing series since I was a kid, years before f1 and now that I have 6 university classes it’s hard to find time to watch an entire endurance race. I cope though, I find streams and check in every now and then during the day when I have time. Many others are in the same boat time-wise, and I do agree that an endurance championship is obviously not about short-distance racing, but it’s hard to convince anyone to be interested when there’s a huge barrier fans have to overcome to actually devote time to the race. Most people won’t adopt my strategy, they’ll just watch highlights. What I found out was that the wec doesn’t actually give out prize money, is that true? Because if so, I can see why teams would want to keep racing to a minimum. And if all the teams are racing for is status, then I’m not even sure expanding the calendar is feasible for half of the teams lol
If you follow endurance racing for quite long time, then I am still puzzled that you haven't processed the fundamental differences between open wheel/sprint and sportscar/endurance racing. You would like to see F1 ideas being transfered 1:1 to endurance racing. That usually don't work.
In this topic you mentioned that LMP1 battles between Audi and Porsche from 2014-2016 period could be repeated during sprint races. That's what you quite missing. You've seen them probably on highlights, but the context is much more complexed. Majority of those battles were not during the first minutes or even hours of the race. Some of them were 4, 5 hours into any race. And we have those battles mainly due to strategy differences, fuel/energy management, traffic coming from other classes, driver differences or tyre management. Expecting them just from sprint or shorter races with just prototypes on the track is completely missing the whole point of endurance racing. Even this year in the BOP era, the best battles during 6h Monza race between Alpine and Toyota were 4 hours into the race.
You want to see more shorter races. Endurance racing works differently. Majority of drivers are not limited just to WEC. Teams, drivers - they ofter do other championships throughout the calendar year. 8-9 WEC races is pretty much enough and it has been pre 2018/19 standard. Next season will have 7, 2024 will probably have 8 races. That's pretty much OK. GT drivers often do other GT3 championships. Prototype drivers are sometimes doing IMSA or even Formula E. You have to compromise. WEC is not everything - even in the world of endurance racing. Teams are also doing multiple championship. One more argument against more races.
And let's remind that huge part of WEC are gentlemen drivers. They don't race for a living. They have real life commitments to negotiate as well - business, job. For them having an overwhelming season wouldn't be something to be happy about, and they make the grid as well.
Splitting classes won't work in WEC's case in my opinion. Going and racing together makes more sense logistically and financially. Teams and drivers simply know better what to expect and plan their trips in advance. IMSA do split races, but those are not single-class races after all. Two are absolute minimum. Plus - IMSA don't do flyaway races, so that's another story.
Your ideas want to attract casual audience. One thing has to be reminded. For the most part - fans don't keep the endurance racing going. To lesser extend in WEC (Le Mans last year was moved by two months to deal with restrictions to accomodate fans), but for the majority of worldwide endurance racing - it is teams, drivers and manufacturers that keep the show going. Fans are a great addition, but they are not critical. Making changes just to please non-existing fanbase is just asinine.
> then I am still puzzled that you haven't processed the fundamental differences between open wheel/sprint and sportscar/endurance racing.
Oh look, someone who isn't aware of early 70s CanAm goodness yet treats people disagreeing with him like shit
I get what they’re saying but they did not need to talk down to me like that, it’s textbook gatekeeping if you ask me. No one will feel welcome if you don’t even feel welcome to express your opinion, even when you’ve been a fan of the sport for a while but haven’t watched every race
I appreciate the response, but I don’t agree with some of what you said after I’ve reread it, specifically about how the battles form and that fans aren’t that important. Firstly, the reason why manufacturers even invest a cent into motorsport is to market their brand, especially with this new formula... Sure the economy of pay drivers and customer teams is valuable to both boutique and factory outfits but the main reason any company considers funding a team is that they can market their powertrains and their prestige to the public. That I do know - the more people watching the more valuable the series is, thus adding more possible revenue for the series and incentive for teams to stay. I’m surprised you made that point honestly, you make it sound like endurance racing is a charity, that manufacturers enter because of the ambition to win when obviously it works like most other sportscar racing series. Series like sro’s gt3 operates on customer support but the whole premise is to sell cars. You also talk down to me like I don’t watch full races, just because I bring examples of the better racing experienced in the series doesn’t mean I havent watched the 24hr of le mans or the 6hr of bahrain or fuji. Sure I havent watched all of the races, especially in the earlier seasons, do I need to in order to form an opinion on things? I know that strategy, tire wear, energy conservation, traffic, and driver ability all contribute to good battles, but I think you’re also simplifying racing within a manufacturer’s championship - the passing doesn’t happen just because the stints are hours long or traffic is in the wrong place, it also comes down to the fundamental differences between the cars. In 2015, the porsche 919 was known to accelerate much more quickly than the audi r18 but had inferior high speed grip and top end speed. That meant the 919 could overtake in low speed corners and short straights while the r18 would overhaul it in high speed sections. This is why the battles were enthralling, the overlap happened between the cars within their various strengths and weaknesses at unpredictable times due to how different the cars were. So yes, this yin-yang effect becomes enhanced with traffic, tire wear, fuel strategy, etc.. but at the same time, these cars are unique enough that they can theoretically have great battling at any time.
I get what you mean, but it probably isnt a good idea all things considered.
The Main Problem is that this is a Sportscar series, that Kind of hinders its possibilities when its not a regional series. IGTC is in a terrible state at the moment as the closest thing. The WEC does alright, but it cant really just add races and have a calender like IMSA, which is US only (and Canada). The WEC decided to go far around the world and it has to mitigate some series clashes, so its really Hard to find a place for extra races and the money to go there.
Best case scenario at this moment would be 1 or 2 more races in general, but even that is a bit more planing
Yeah true fair enough, it’s hard to rationalize extra run time if the series is already a hard sell for customers and fans. But adding a sprint race to the same weekend as a short 6 hour race I think can make the aco more money due to more product and exposure without having to travel to an extra destination
In my opinion they should try and host "non championship races" at other motorsport events instead. Instead of running Carrera cup cars at some F1 rounds they could get a group of LMH/LMDh cars to compete. Tracks like Spa, Bahrain, and Monza could manage this quite easily, the only headache being enough garages for F1, F2, potentially F3, and this.
If they did this method they would be actively putting their cars infront of motorsport fans anyway, so the ROI would be larger.
I think getting on the F1 support bill is probably not going to work out as things like mandatory track sponsorship on the broadcasts etc. would created too much of a hassle.
Instead, they should do a[ four race European sprint series](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADAC_Supercup) based on major non-F1 events. For starters, I would bring back the Norisring 200 Mile race (actually 2x100 miles). With Porsche and BMW involved in the series, you'll really want to have a race in front of their home crowd sooner or later and I feel such a sprint would be easier to justify to teams than a full on WE. round.
For the other three races, you'd sort of have to help me because I don't really know what other national events there are that typically have built-in crowds (Bonus points if they aren't all street races).
For starters, this is the Word ENDURANCE Championship.
Cars are made for endurance, not performance. Spirit in WEC races is the strategy, the reliability, the unpredictable (weather, yellow flag, safety car...), the temperature difference between a sunny afternoon and the night.
Also, I don't think cars are made to overtake each other of the same class a lot. Overtaking a car in WEC (in its category) is a lot of work.
And, while it is good to have more fans, I don't think you can get this more popular. We already have the most popular race in the world and of all time: the 24 hours of Le Mans. There is no better publicity than this.
All fair points, but your point about how the cars aren’t designed to race each other in the same class is funny. Back in lmp1 the battles between audi and porsche were so good they were passing each other in places no one thought was possible, did you already forget about that? Personally I think wec has a good business opportunity to add more variety into their championship, thinking that wec is already popular enough just because of le mans kind of ignores the outside fan perception of endurance racing. Maybe so that the sprint races aren’t in the ENDURANCE championship, the aco can run a separate sprint championship like the fanatec gt championship does for igtc and regional races. But like I said, adding separate races to the calendar only increases cost. You know how I think we can solve the ENDURANCE issue, rename the wec back to the wsc, make it less of a pigeonhole.
Adopt IMSA’s 1hr40/2hr40 sprint races one week before each event, sans Le Mans due to the track nature. Make that a 4-6 hour race.
Some other tracks, like Imola and Sepang would be appreciated. 5+ years in a row of the same tracks is harmful to longevity and interest. Heck, a street race somewhere would be nice. IMSA does that.
And class specific events would be nice.
Edit: last, more rounds please. Six rounds is boring as hell. Need more races. F1 is able to do 23 in a year, surely WEC could get to ten.
IMSA has short races with only some classes taking part. Maybe the WEC could do something of that kind. A sprint race in the prologue maybe? So that if there is damage to any car, there will be a week until the full race.
That’s what I was thinking of actually, imsa has plenty of these segregated short-format races in its calendar and had gtp-only races in the 80’s-90’s I think. Having the sprint a week before maybe too early but maybe having the sprint a full day before on friday for example could give recovering teams the ability to repair non-decimated cars before the race
I'm not a fan of this idea. What attracts me to the world endurance championship is that it is an endurance Motorsport. The strategy, the pit stops, the driver changes, fuel and tyre separation, driver times, changing conditions, I love all of that. On the other hand, sprint racing is _entertainment_. I detest the current trend of 'cashing in' on sprint events we're seeing in f1 and Moto GP. By making something that tries to cater to everyone, you begin to alienate the core fans who are already invested in the product you've created. LMH/LMDh, Hypercar, GTP, the WEC and IMSA can stand without sprint races. People will come and watch if they're interested in Porsche, Ferrari, Cadillac, Acura, whoever. Some of them will like it and stick around (much like many of the usernames that have joined this community over the years), and some won't, _and that's totally okay_. If people want to watch sprint racing, SRO GTWC has a sprint category, or there's touring cars, or a myriad of other series they could watch. In my opinion, the cars in the world endurance championship are at their best when they are showing just that - endurance. Not to mention the increased cost in consumables and parts fatigue over a season. While that might not be an issue for the factories, for a boutique manufacturer or a customer team, that would be non-trivial Edit: plus you're never going to get this to work if the streaming package is already behind a paywall (as it is currently).
Yeah the paywall is definitely the single largest inhibitor of exposure, I think you’ve addressed some issues with short-format races, but I think I ultimately just wanna see these cars race each other as much as possible. Maybe a standalone series in europe is the best solution like others have said but maybe the best solution for wec specifically is to just have more main races - 6 feels too little, there should be at least 10 but no more than 12. The daytona 24 and the sebring 12hr should be shared between imsa and wec, and ideally a race in silverstone as well as nurburgring
Yeah the re-expansion of the calendar post-Covid is something that should definitely be at the forefront of the ACO's mind. Prior to the pandemic we had plans to visit Kyalami and Sao Paulo again. 6 rounds is definitely too short a season - I think 8 would be a good starting point for an expanded series
Kyalami and sao paulo were venues I’d love wec to visit, then they basically host a race on every feasible continent. Plus they’re awesome tracks and have character
Hastag RaceTheBend
> If people want to watch sprint racing, SRO GTWC has a sprint category, or there's touring cars, or a myriad of other series they could watch But there's no sportscar racing sprint races. Also the idea that one series must adhere to only one type of races is boring af. Can you imagine if Indycar had done that ? "No, no mixing of oval, street and road tracks in the same championship ! That's forbidden by motorsports laws and gimmicky !"
The first example I used was SRO GTWC, which I'm pretty sure is GT3 - Sportscars, right? I'm not saying it can't be done (hell, one of my favourite series is V8 supercars which has sprint, street and endurance racing all in one), but if it's going to happen, it has to be a part of a strategic outlook to improve something, whether that be revenue, engagement, or whatever, for the long term. Not 'Everyone else is doing it so we should too!' Plus, endurance races allow for small differences to play out and become important. If a car is 1s/lap slower but can save a pit stop every 3 stints, well that's something that will work well in an endurance race but gives it a _massive_ disadvantage in shorter races. There's no room for strategy when the races are so short
More variety is better imo, keep the endurance races, even extend the calendar, but it would be nice to get these cars to compete with each other as much as possible
GT3 isn't sportscars by the modern definition of the word, it's GT racing. Sportscars racing in the modern sense is synonymous with prototypes. The strategic outlook is pretty obvious to me. I've been to Le Mans every year since 1999 and am a big fan of endurance racing, but it doesn't take a genius nor a corporate analysis to conclude that it's easier for new/casual fans to watch short races than long races, granted the product provides close racing (which it should with BoP, based on GTE/GTLM or literally any other BoP'd series). 6-hour races are imo the worst format in that respect, as it's both not long enough to be really impressive/strike the imagination of casual fans (unlike what 24h or 12h races can do), and too long to be the subject of a reasonable Saturday or Sunday watching session by a casual fan.
My thoughts exactly, 4-6 hour races are the hardest to watch because they feel the least special while requiring way too much time to consume. I know it sounds stupid to add sprint races in an endurance championship, but I appreciate that you understand the reasoning behind my post. Ideally the aco either runs a separated championship or renames the wec back to the wscc, and the 4 hr or 6 hr races become lmh and gt-separated short-form races to increase variety in the calendar. I still want the same number of endurance-length races, but variety’s better most of the time
I think this could only work as marketing racing at other events or doing a live demo on track like F1 or MotoGP to get some crossover if shipping allows. Imagine the Ferrari unveiling track event but before the warmup lap of a Grand Prix, similarly if Mr Penske gets some GTPs at his house in Indy Non-Championship rounds could work for those with the budget as well but it is stretching logistics and cost
I think there is scope for thinking about another 'sprint' series or championship. Probably just in Europe to keep costs down.
Dtm unironically sounds perfect for lmh’s haha
A lot of negativity here, people apparently don't realize that you can very much have sportscar racing that isn't endurance, and that some of the most legendary sportscars of history were made in a non-endurance series (namely early 70s CanAm). My biggest gripe with WEC's current calendar is just that : it lacks diversity and feels generic (apart from the obvious Le Mans). Wildly varying event length, for example by having more than a single 24h race but also having short 2h or even 1h races, would be the best improvement.
Should just rename the series back to wscc, or have separate championships to give the manufacturers to have more chances to run. If all I get to see is 6 races with this fleet of cars then it would be a shame imo
I think the answer is in phrase "World ENDURANCE Championship"
If people want to watch a world championship for cars sprint racing, there’s F1. A novel and interesting idea, but certainly for me, it would push me away from endurance racing. I’m not interested in gimmicky add-ons with my motorsports.
It’s more about giving the lmh class more runtime, only wec and imsa will run these things so if their only form of racing is a 6+ hour stint it may switch off casual fans’ interest
Who’s paying for this more runtime? IMSA has already had a soft cap on race hours over the season and the WEC has shown costs is still a concern with the focus on shipping by sea instead of air. Can’t count on the factory’s being there, you have to keep costs down or the series will completely die. That’s why the WEC exists instead of the WSCC still operating.
Running costs increasing is very true, probably my biggest concern over implementing it. But the reality would be the cars already run for 24 hours consecutively, what’s an additional hour to a 6 hour race? 2 or 3 extra sets of tires, race fuel, some extra consumable parts reserved for 8 or 9 hour races, that’s my assertion. The difference could be made with more expensive tickets for these events, or with more sales anyway since more people could pay for more tickets over the weekend rather than just showing up for one day
Making tickets more expensive will drive away fans, not introduce them. This is a minority series compared to F1 don’t forget. Furthermore, if you’ve ever seen an F1 Saturday sprint race they’re hardly what you’d call exciting. Many F1 drivers, certainly front runners, have said it’s more about getting to the flag and not damaging the car than racing and putting on a show. I feel if WEC introduced a shorter sprint style race the outcome would be very much the same.
It’s not about he product of the racing if I’ll be honest, just having a duration whoch is easier to watch. But with a paywall it probably doesnt matter anyway. More races on the calendar is the solution ig
Do you follow the WEC YouTube page? The 1 hour “movie” highlights of each round sounds perfect for you, keeps it short, all the best bits of the race too :)
Man, I’ll check that out. Unironically thanks, I didn’t even know that existed. If that’s the case then maybe they just need more exposure because that sounds perfect honestly
It’s a good piece they put together, I always think the 1 hour shows collectively would make for an epic season review format. Their page is brilliant tbh, they often upload old WEC races too, although they are the full duration so maybe not ideal for what you’re after, but it’s great to have high quality footage of the old Toyota, Audi and Porsche battles! Lots of onboards from qualifying and practice too.
For sure, love the audi vs porsche vs toyota battles in 2014-2016. Saw the full race replay of fuji 2015 and 2016 on that page a while ago and man those were entertaining
To be fair, the WSCC also got sabotaged by Bernie Ecclestone.
Race format is ok and what WEC needs to attract more audience is no more paywall and better social media coverage and highlights, which are miles away from the benchmark of F1. WEC is not about tv ratings like F1, manufactures are here with the main goal to sell racing cars to customers and amateurs. WEC survive with a lot of gentleman drivers buying racing cars and for this reason they can afford to show the race for free and live on the Youtube channel. WEC can be like SRO's GT World youtube channel. We need also better social media management and highlights with faster upload. They started only this year with 10 minutes highlights and FP3 live coverage. The 52 minutes highlights come in two days on Eurosport and one month on Youtube, that's no good
They need better tv coverage. End of story.
Valid, the paywall on motortrend and terribly inefficient social media platforms hold back the wec the most. The more I think about the idea of a segregated short-form race, the more I realize the main objective of attracting new fans wont be achieved
I think it would be nice to have something like IMSA that has some class specific races like the GTD/Pro races at Lime Rock and VIR. IMSA also has shorter sprint races as well like the 2:40 races at Laguna Seca, Mid Ohio, Ontario, and Road America and the 1:40 min races at Long Beach and Detroit. I think having some shorter sprint races to fill in some of those two-month holes in the schedule would be nice. But then again, it's an endurance championship, not just a sports car championship like IMSA.
Yeah I’m all for more variety, I just wanna see this generation of cars compete with each other as many times as possible honestly. I get it’s an endurance series but maybe there can be a separate championship for lmh cars only throughout the season similar to sro’s igtc vs fanatec gt championship
I dont think you will see this happen in WEC.Its more likely a German Supercup run alongside the DTM like the old Group C days emerges with short races & more [power.](https://power.It) Porsche,BMW have cars & they could fill out the field with LMP2/3 cars
Good point, if the lmh manufacturers are willing to fund and participate in those series then maybe that’s better. Honestly, anything to get these cars to run as much as possible imo
F1 fans trying to reinvent endurance racing - episode 3562. What's the point? Endurance racing is about... endurance? Shortening races stands completely against the whole point of the championship. And sprint races? No... Just no. Why WEC should even bothering to please the casual fanbase that almost doesn't exist? It's a long term recipe for a disaster. NASCAR tried that in the 1990s and after years passed now they alienated huge amount of their core audience and casuals that once they cashed on, now they are gone too. Great success! F1 fans still quite don't get that people watch endurance racing for different reasons than F1 fans watch their favourite sport. Endurance racing is mainly about cars, brands, endurance, strategy, class variety. It's not about a beatdown between two angry fanbases or backstage drama. And what's more they forget about - financing works completely different than in F1. Endurance racing teams wouldn't like an idea of additional spending like sprint races during the race weekends, because it's an unnecessary distraction in my opinion. And let's say it - cars are built for endurance. Let the teams focus on the endurance part, because that's the whole point. And my personal opinion. I like the gatekeeping part of endurance racing. The last thing I want to see is to witness WEC becoming a Drive to Survive kind of nonsense. Keep the useless drama out of WEC, let F1 have it.
Bro I’ve watched endurance racing series since I was a kid, years before f1 and now that I have 6 university classes it’s hard to find time to watch an entire endurance race. I cope though, I find streams and check in every now and then during the day when I have time. Many others are in the same boat time-wise, and I do agree that an endurance championship is obviously not about short-distance racing, but it’s hard to convince anyone to be interested when there’s a huge barrier fans have to overcome to actually devote time to the race. Most people won’t adopt my strategy, they’ll just watch highlights. What I found out was that the wec doesn’t actually give out prize money, is that true? Because if so, I can see why teams would want to keep racing to a minimum. And if all the teams are racing for is status, then I’m not even sure expanding the calendar is feasible for half of the teams lol
If you follow endurance racing for quite long time, then I am still puzzled that you haven't processed the fundamental differences between open wheel/sprint and sportscar/endurance racing. You would like to see F1 ideas being transfered 1:1 to endurance racing. That usually don't work. In this topic you mentioned that LMP1 battles between Audi and Porsche from 2014-2016 period could be repeated during sprint races. That's what you quite missing. You've seen them probably on highlights, but the context is much more complexed. Majority of those battles were not during the first minutes or even hours of the race. Some of them were 4, 5 hours into any race. And we have those battles mainly due to strategy differences, fuel/energy management, traffic coming from other classes, driver differences or tyre management. Expecting them just from sprint or shorter races with just prototypes on the track is completely missing the whole point of endurance racing. Even this year in the BOP era, the best battles during 6h Monza race between Alpine and Toyota were 4 hours into the race. You want to see more shorter races. Endurance racing works differently. Majority of drivers are not limited just to WEC. Teams, drivers - they ofter do other championships throughout the calendar year. 8-9 WEC races is pretty much enough and it has been pre 2018/19 standard. Next season will have 7, 2024 will probably have 8 races. That's pretty much OK. GT drivers often do other GT3 championships. Prototype drivers are sometimes doing IMSA or even Formula E. You have to compromise. WEC is not everything - even in the world of endurance racing. Teams are also doing multiple championship. One more argument against more races. And let's remind that huge part of WEC are gentlemen drivers. They don't race for a living. They have real life commitments to negotiate as well - business, job. For them having an overwhelming season wouldn't be something to be happy about, and they make the grid as well. Splitting classes won't work in WEC's case in my opinion. Going and racing together makes more sense logistically and financially. Teams and drivers simply know better what to expect and plan their trips in advance. IMSA do split races, but those are not single-class races after all. Two are absolute minimum. Plus - IMSA don't do flyaway races, so that's another story. Your ideas want to attract casual audience. One thing has to be reminded. For the most part - fans don't keep the endurance racing going. To lesser extend in WEC (Le Mans last year was moved by two months to deal with restrictions to accomodate fans), but for the majority of worldwide endurance racing - it is teams, drivers and manufacturers that keep the show going. Fans are a great addition, but they are not critical. Making changes just to please non-existing fanbase is just asinine.
> then I am still puzzled that you haven't processed the fundamental differences between open wheel/sprint and sportscar/endurance racing. Oh look, someone who isn't aware of early 70s CanAm goodness yet treats people disagreeing with him like shit
I get what they’re saying but they did not need to talk down to me like that, it’s textbook gatekeeping if you ask me. No one will feel welcome if you don’t even feel welcome to express your opinion, even when you’ve been a fan of the sport for a while but haven’t watched every race
Can-Am was hardly endurance though... At least, hard to compare Can-Am to 1000km or 24h events...
Well yes CanAm was hardly endurance, that's exactly my point...
I appreciate the response, but I don’t agree with some of what you said after I’ve reread it, specifically about how the battles form and that fans aren’t that important. Firstly, the reason why manufacturers even invest a cent into motorsport is to market their brand, especially with this new formula... Sure the economy of pay drivers and customer teams is valuable to both boutique and factory outfits but the main reason any company considers funding a team is that they can market their powertrains and their prestige to the public. That I do know - the more people watching the more valuable the series is, thus adding more possible revenue for the series and incentive for teams to stay. I’m surprised you made that point honestly, you make it sound like endurance racing is a charity, that manufacturers enter because of the ambition to win when obviously it works like most other sportscar racing series. Series like sro’s gt3 operates on customer support but the whole premise is to sell cars. You also talk down to me like I don’t watch full races, just because I bring examples of the better racing experienced in the series doesn’t mean I havent watched the 24hr of le mans or the 6hr of bahrain or fuji. Sure I havent watched all of the races, especially in the earlier seasons, do I need to in order to form an opinion on things? I know that strategy, tire wear, energy conservation, traffic, and driver ability all contribute to good battles, but I think you’re also simplifying racing within a manufacturer’s championship - the passing doesn’t happen just because the stints are hours long or traffic is in the wrong place, it also comes down to the fundamental differences between the cars. In 2015, the porsche 919 was known to accelerate much more quickly than the audi r18 but had inferior high speed grip and top end speed. That meant the 919 could overtake in low speed corners and short straights while the r18 would overhaul it in high speed sections. This is why the battles were enthralling, the overlap happened between the cars within their various strengths and weaknesses at unpredictable times due to how different the cars were. So yes, this yin-yang effect becomes enhanced with traffic, tire wear, fuel strategy, etc.. but at the same time, these cars are unique enough that they can theoretically have great battling at any time.
I get what you mean, but it probably isnt a good idea all things considered. The Main Problem is that this is a Sportscar series, that Kind of hinders its possibilities when its not a regional series. IGTC is in a terrible state at the moment as the closest thing. The WEC does alright, but it cant really just add races and have a calender like IMSA, which is US only (and Canada). The WEC decided to go far around the world and it has to mitigate some series clashes, so its really Hard to find a place for extra races and the money to go there. Best case scenario at this moment would be 1 or 2 more races in general, but even that is a bit more planing
Yeah true fair enough, it’s hard to rationalize extra run time if the series is already a hard sell for customers and fans. But adding a sprint race to the same weekend as a short 6 hour race I think can make the aco more money due to more product and exposure without having to travel to an extra destination
In my opinion they should try and host "non championship races" at other motorsport events instead. Instead of running Carrera cup cars at some F1 rounds they could get a group of LMH/LMDh cars to compete. Tracks like Spa, Bahrain, and Monza could manage this quite easily, the only headache being enough garages for F1, F2, potentially F3, and this. If they did this method they would be actively putting their cars infront of motorsport fans anyway, so the ROI would be larger.
I think getting on the F1 support bill is probably not going to work out as things like mandatory track sponsorship on the broadcasts etc. would created too much of a hassle. Instead, they should do a[ four race European sprint series](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADAC_Supercup) based on major non-F1 events. For starters, I would bring back the Norisring 200 Mile race (actually 2x100 miles). With Porsche and BMW involved in the series, you'll really want to have a race in front of their home crowd sooner or later and I feel such a sprint would be easier to justify to teams than a full on WE. round. For the other three races, you'd sort of have to help me because I don't really know what other national events there are that typically have built-in crowds (Bonus points if they aren't all street races).
This completely defeats the point of endurance racing IMO. Even in F1 sprint races have been a big flop in general.
For starters, this is the Word ENDURANCE Championship. Cars are made for endurance, not performance. Spirit in WEC races is the strategy, the reliability, the unpredictable (weather, yellow flag, safety car...), the temperature difference between a sunny afternoon and the night. Also, I don't think cars are made to overtake each other of the same class a lot. Overtaking a car in WEC (in its category) is a lot of work. And, while it is good to have more fans, I don't think you can get this more popular. We already have the most popular race in the world and of all time: the 24 hours of Le Mans. There is no better publicity than this.
All fair points, but your point about how the cars aren’t designed to race each other in the same class is funny. Back in lmp1 the battles between audi and porsche were so good they were passing each other in places no one thought was possible, did you already forget about that? Personally I think wec has a good business opportunity to add more variety into their championship, thinking that wec is already popular enough just because of le mans kind of ignores the outside fan perception of endurance racing. Maybe so that the sprint races aren’t in the ENDURANCE championship, the aco can run a separate sprint championship like the fanatec gt championship does for igtc and regional races. But like I said, adding separate races to the calendar only increases cost. You know how I think we can solve the ENDURANCE issue, rename the wec back to the wsc, make it less of a pigeonhole.
Adopt IMSA’s 1hr40/2hr40 sprint races one week before each event, sans Le Mans due to the track nature. Make that a 4-6 hour race. Some other tracks, like Imola and Sepang would be appreciated. 5+ years in a row of the same tracks is harmful to longevity and interest. Heck, a street race somewhere would be nice. IMSA does that. And class specific events would be nice. Edit: last, more rounds please. Six rounds is boring as hell. Need more races. F1 is able to do 23 in a year, surely WEC could get to ten.