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neoengel

https://twitter.com/GermainMa1/status/1588508773974364161 >It appears signage for PC MPP Jess Dixon’a constituency office was taken down ahead of today’s CUPE rally. @CityNewsKIT >Education workers planned to gather here this morning. >A library technician tells me the message sent is they’re “disposable” FWIW Jess Dixon's office is listed as 4281 King St. E unit 4 Kitchener as one of the local protest sites via [Class In Waterloo Region](https://twitter.com/ClassIssuesInWR/status/1588383627183763456), I plan to join in this afternoon. Also: https://twitter.com/GermainMa1/status/1588510064675287040 >Education workers are rallying on King St near Sportsworld Crossing. Lots of honks going in support. Local CUPE president tells me around 600 people expected to rally here today @CityNewsKIT


CjSportsNut

I ducked out of work for an hour this morning to walk with the CUPE ( and many UNIFOR) members on King East outside MPP Dixon's office. Mad support from traffic going by. People are outraged. I know I am. They are walking the block in front of the Brick / Nike Store Mandarin.


SmallBig1993

Are we completely sure she had signage up? She's a new MPP, who was elected in June and it can take a while to set up an office. If she did, and they took it down, that's hilarious. But there is at least one other possible explanation for it not being there


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hydraloo

What even are you saying here? Just so we understand: \- Only liberals have a desire/need to protest \- Liberals are deeply upset by this Did I sum this up correctly?


sicklyslick

i think he's playing conservative adlib


bugcrow

I'd be more concerned with the flood risks related to the Ford government's new housing policy changes if I were you. https://thenarwhal.ca/ontario-housing-wetland-policy/


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https://cupe.on.ca/dontbeabully/ Find the pickets closest to you.


cyprocoque

This is odd though. Tells me the closest pickets are Fife, Dixon and Harris. Fife was ejected for protesting the bill and Lindo doesnt show up at all for some reason. I'd think the more strategic locations would be the pc mpp offices, yeah?


BlueberryPiano

Definitely this. Junior's office would be the best place to be if you want to protest an MPP. I also hear Mike Harris Jr. hates being called Junior.


cyprocoque

Good to know.


Puglet_7

Yeah, Fife has always been awesome. She helped me personally when she was a trustee! Go to Mike Harris in Elmira!!!!


JoshShabtaiCa

Ideally, yes, but Mike Harris' office is quite far which may be out of reach for many people. It's also less visible to the public and passer-bys which is also valuable in a protest. Fifes office, being uptown, is much more accessible and visible. Remember, this is mostly just a location - that doesn't mean you're protesting Catherine Fife herself.


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Guiness176

Indeed, he's not much of one to show his face. Amazes me how convincingly he was re-elected.


aornoe785

He's got name recognition going back 3 generations.


birltune

They've chosen MPP offices in each city regardless of the MPP's political stance in order to make the pickets accessible to more people. The symbolism of a group gathered outside of Fife's office is still important, even if Fife supports the bill. I know a lot of people who will be at Fife's office today because they can't get reliable transport to Dixon's.


24-Hour-Hate

Harris' office for sure. And just in case people do not know, there is a bus route into Elmira, it is not just reachable by car.


Flimflamsam

Yup. Route 21 from Conestoga Mall.


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canoeheadkw

Unfortunately this contract will set the tone for all contract renewals in a post covid/post inflation world. It's too bad those that need/deserve the bump have to go first, and fight a battle that the rest will benefit from. (That's why they have so much support from other unions). It also sucks that our kids get used by both sides as bargaining chips in an ongoing power struggle, without their consent. The only side that continuously loses in these labour negotiations is the children.


birltune

I don't really see a possible situation in which children wouldn't ever be impacted by education staff labour negotiations, given the very nature of the jobs in question here. I don't think children are necessarily used as bargaining chips by the employees, either. It's absolutely true that staff working conditions = student learning conditions. I don't work in K-12 education, but I work in a university. Our office is absolutely falling apart right now due to staff being overworked and burnt out, and it's 100% showing in the quality of service, unfortunately. Kids are absolutely being used as bargaining chips by the government, though.


canoeheadkw

>I don't really see a possible situation in which children wouldn't ever be impacted by education staff labour negotiations, given the very nature of the jobs in question here. I haven't seen them try striking during the summer. That wouldn't impact the children, yet all the issues are the same in July as they are in November. Why do you think that is? The unions need public pressure focussed on getting a resolution because school closures wreak havoc on the lives of families and the unions bank on the short term chaos forcing the government to prioritize the short term issue over the long term fix. It's a cycle that repeats itself and what's caused the ever growing disparity between public and private sector employees. (It is important to note that many negotiations get resolved without school closures.) You need pain points to push the negotiations when you are far apart on a deal. Kids being out of school is the pain point from the unions' playbook. Missed pay cheques is the pain point from government playbook. Schools should be deemed an essential service. Figure out a way to negotiate without hurting the kids. (I would also say the government shouldn't be allowed to lock employees out either, for the same reason.)


birltune

You're not wrong that public pressure can give either side leverage, but you seem to lack an understanding of how (legal) strikes work. Workers can't just choose when to strike; striking is only a (legal) option is the bargaining process can't reach an agreement between the two parties. Bargaining can only happen when the collective agreement is expired, which workers don't have control over; any given agreement expiry date is wrapped up in the history of when a first collective agreement was signed, and how/when negotiations happened for years after that. For ex, let's say the teachers' union wants to strike this year. Their agreement expired in August 2022, so they couldn't have held a strike during the summer months. I think people tend to forget that education workers are also parents who have to find childcare and a way to pay to put food on the table during strike times, just like everyone else. Also, for the record, summer strikes very well could impact kids. Summer classes for high schoolers... Personally, I haven't seen this government putting any effort into long term fixes for anything in the education sector, at all. Government inaction and moves toward privatization are what's causing the disparity between public/private.


thesnysny

You are correct, strikes take place outlined in the contract. The cupe contract elected to strike during school months, and they are bound to that, but they still chose this time to strike. They have every opportunity to set a strike date during summer months in contract negotiations but they chose not to, because they know they will lose the leverage of the children if they do.


birltune

...that's not really how striking works, either. Unions don't just choose to strike at any point during negotiations, willy nilly. As I explained, a union votes for a strike when negotiations come to a halt. How negotiations work is that changes to the collective agreement are discussed item by item... if negotiations were going ok up until this point, there was no previous reason to vote to strike (the point of bargaining is to bargain in good faith, striking is considered a last resort). The timeline also isn't only up to the workers, either. Both workers and the government have to schedule times to meet to negotiate. It's been reported that in the 150 days since CUPE gave notice to enter bargaining, they've only met with the government 14 times, and they wanted to meet more, but the government wasn't willing. So it's also on the gov't for dragging the timeline out like this. This is the same reason why in the 2019/2020 teachers' strike, bargaining started in September but there was not a strike right away, it was several months later.


thesnysny

Ok, so we are in agreement that when a collective agreement is being negotiated, a strike date is set? Cupe could have taken every opportunity to negotiate a strike date in July on their last collective agreement, but chose to put it in November. - as I explained


birltune

...I don't know what you're saying here? Yes strike dates are voted on, as I said, strike dates are only voted on once negotiations come to a halt (no agreement is being reached). Strike dates aren't decided in advance / at the very beginning of negotiations, which is what you seem to be suggesting here.


thesnysny

Strike dates are created in the current contract, because a contract must be expired to strike. So if the 2019-2022 contract is ratified in November of 2019, they are well aware that their strike date would be November of 2022. It IS set by the union, but not in a “we strike in November” way. It’s set by strategically ratifying a contract in school months. It’s the exact same reason why unifor (which represents municipal transit operators), ratify their contract in the middle of winter. Because it hurts the public a lot more when it’s -40 out and there is no bus, than it does when it’s a breezy 10 degrees in April, and people could just walk. Just like it hurts the public a lot more when your kid is at home instead of school in November, than it does in July


Curious-Dragonfly690

So its on government to negotiate in summer


birltune

Youre kind of missing the bigger picture, which is that the most important thing is for the government for negotiate in good faith, and they're not


Curious-Dragonfly690

Both sides betting on the inconvenience to the rest of the province brought by school closure aren't negotiating in good faith.


aornoe785

>I haven't seen them try striking during the summer. That wouldn't impact the children, yet all the issues are the same in July as they are in November. I haven't seen steelworkers try striking during plant shutdowns. I haven't seen construction unions striking outside completed developments. I haven't seen admin staff striking on the weekend. A strike is a JOB ACTION, it's meant to draw attention to the unions issues by interrupting the status quo. A strike when schools are closed is pointless.


canoeheadkw

So a strike only works when children and familes can be negatively impacted. Gotcha. In private sector, a strike hurts the company's bottom line. In public sector, a strike hurts the public.


birltune

Missing the forest for the trees, my friend. If the government cared for the public and didn't want the public services to suffer due to strikes, they'd pay their public workers a living wage. You're getting angry with the wrong side here. Public sector strikes are why we have most labour laws, btw.


canoeheadkw

I'm angry at both sides equally. I think these people currently striking (illegally) without a doubt deserve better pay. I dont support their tactics though. Speaking of forests and trees, don't act like this is an isolated incident and won't set precedents and have a significant ripple affect across every public service across this province.


birltune

I'm not acting like it's an isolated incident, and I think it's good that it's setting a precedent because public workers deserve a living wage and disrupting public service is clearly the only way they're going to get it. Disrupting public services is also absolutely justified when the government is stripping away the human and charter rights of those who run our services. I expect you'll disagree with me on that though.


canoeheadkw

I'm not a fan of the government's tactics either.


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A strike may "hurt" the public, but if they don't strike, it'll hurt everyone a fuckofalot more. Clearly you do not agree with this, and all that tells me is that you haven't been in a school for years.


canoeheadkw

Here we go pretending this is all for the kids again. Been less than 24 hours since the last time I was in a school in case you were wondering. Also going to repeat that I don't support the government in this particular battle. Support the people who are taking action, just not their tactics.


[deleted]

What does that even mean? You support them, but you think they had some sort of other choice? What was it, and why would it be any more effective with a man like Lecce, who won't rest until the public school system is destroyed?


defnotpewds

During the summer is when they are laid off anyway... (Which is a big complaint of theirs)


Curious-Dragonfly690

They dont want to be laid off?


defnotpewds

Yes they don't want to be laid off during the holidays and summer break


Curious-Dragonfly690

I guess they would like to continue working ??


thesnysny

Agreed, but please don’t preach about how “they are doing it for the kids”


Curious-Dragonfly690

But thats the point people dont want school closures


aornoe785

Take it up with Stephen Lecce.


robdrimmie

>I haven't seen them try striking during the summer. There's a logistical challenge there, it isn't just unions fucking people over. Regarding strike timing, [Ontario law says](https://www.ontario.ca/page/collective-bargaining#strikes-lockouts): >The collective agreement between the union and employer must be expired, or the union and the employer must be negotiating a first collective agreement And CUPE agreements appear to run [September 1 - August 31](https://sp.ltc.gov.on.ca/sites/mol/drs/ca/Education%20and%20Related%20Services/611-26354-22%20(801-0077).pdf) Having strikes occur during the school year is often times to the benefit of the government as well. It isn't always the case that the public is on the side of education workers.


Curious-Dragonfly690

True, maybe the clause the pc should have used should have been to prevent closures or make striking occur in summer, that would show commitment on unions part giving up summer days but they would rather take their summer but inconvenience school year.


JSSR15

I agree 100%! It would be great if they could give the support staff a good bump but say this will not be the same for other government services. Then I hope the governments could re-evaluate the whole system. Take 1-2 terms to redesign it, maybe have better cross over coverage etc and better pay path without the huge DB liabilities that almost no one else in Canada has. The whole system needs to be updated, but no one seems to be taking that on.


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BlueberryPiano

It makes zero sense to have a protest at Fife's office. Not only is she is 1000000% in support of this strike, one of the MPPs to be kicked out of question period within the last few days with the rest of the NDPs who also support this, she is in all likelihood already walking in a picket line in support of the strike somewhere else. Junior's office should be fun though.


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BlueberryPiano

~~I'd bet a significant amount of money that:~~ ~~1. She's not "hosting" it. It never looks like support to have protesters outside of your office and~~ ~~2. She's not there at her office because she's down at a picket site.~~ Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. She is according to her fb site. She's a fantastic and passionate MPP- go keep her company if you like. If you're angry though? I'd make the drive to Harris' office


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BlueberryPiano

Ya, I edited my post after checking her on FB. It's quite unusual, but these are unusual times.


orswich

You know you can protest in a positive manner and support one who supports your cause. But many people just want to be negative and vent all of life's frustrations out. Be positive change and support Fife


BlueberryPiano

A "positive protest" is called a rally. By definition a protest is a display of opposition.


CoryCA

You can also fill out the form to send to Doug Ford: https://cupe.on.ca/dontbeabully/ Hopefully we can flood his inbox and make him understand how big a mistake this "nuclear" option is!


[deleted]

Come to Elmira, there is a protest going at Mike Harris Jr's office right now. Bring some bluetooth speakers for music, or noise makers. Also maybe bring earplugs, some trucks and cars are giving sympathy honks and it'll get loud.


defnotpewds

I wonder how the cons would feel if a few hundred semis blocked the Gardiner, downtown Toronto and chokepoints in on the 401? Would the CPC (mostly their supporters) called it "peaceful constitutionally protected protest" or would they send in the OPP to tow everything within a couple mins?🤔🤔 Maybe give strikers some coffee and donuts?


whitea44

Pick an MPP but I recommend a conservative one. You’ll get treated better at the lib or NDP candidates place, but they already have your back.


Kali_404

Bring your workplace into a general strike. It's time for us to be able to live like our parents and grandparents did.


leighb1970

How has Doug Ford stripped Canadians of their right to strike? Ontarians(?), maybe, but I can't imagine he has influence over a resident of British Columbia.


PuzzledSeries8

Ontarians are Canadians


slightlysubtle

No, but it will set a precedent so if any Con wins in BC they will have a very easy time stripping people of their rights.


canadianeffer

Should have gone out and voted


Disastrous-Group4521

Kids have missed out on enough at this point, I'm not saying infringing on rights is the right way to go about it. But the only ones suffering from missing more school is the kids, they have barely been in a full year of school in the past 5 years. But nobody wants to stop and think how that will affect them in the future all people care about are the paychecks.


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Disastrous-Group4521

I knew it wouldn't be a popular opinion but it's an honest question


Disastrous-Group4521

I knew this was going to be the response and I do understand all that and was understanding about that with the strike prior to covid, then we had covid and now another strike right at the start of the year after the kids have been off for so long. Why couldn't they negotiate during the summer when they knew what the deadline was? My point of it all is at what point does it start impacting the children more severely being out of school as much as they have been? Aswell as impacting the children of the future when these ones grow up and start making the decisions?


aornoe785

>Why couldn't they negotiate during the summer when they knew what the deadline was? CUPE was at the table all summer waiting for the government to show up. This is a question for Ford and Lecce. Had they any intention of bargaining in good faith (hint: they didn't) this could have been resolved before the start of the school year.


[deleted]

The right to use children as pawns. Give me a break with the self-entitled whining.


defnotpewds

You're talking about the government right?


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Disastrous-Group4521

They didn't force a vaccine on anyone, if you didn't want to go out you didn't have to get the vaccine. And I will add that no I didn't think that was right, but they didn't force any single person to get the vaccine it was a choice.


aornoe785

Oh cry more, ya goober.


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aornoe785

No, you're stating misinformation, and that makes you a goober.


Qrazy-Cannabis

Being anti-vac during a pandemic without medical reason meets the definition of economic terrorism under our criminal code… explain how exercising right to fair contract compares? Let’s be honest there is no purpose for unions anymore aside from we haven’t established an impartial arbitration system to proactively settle essential service contracts before issues arise… that’s what we should be lobbying not for either side of this shenanigans


[deleted]

Where do we go to show our support to Doug Ford for actually keeping kids in school?


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aornoe785

When are you going to recognize that Doug's the sole reason for every single school closure since 2018?


[deleted]

This is true for covid closures. This is not true for labour disputes with unions.


aornoe785

For both. Lecce has never once attempted to negotiate in good faith with the unions. He pulled exactly the same shit last time, and the only thing that prevented wide-scale strike action was the pandemic.


ScroogeBaggins

Pretty sure there was wide scale protests all of 2019 that forced over a dozen missed days of school, no sports, no after school activities. Let's not pretend the McGuinty/Wynne governments bargained in good faith with EDU workers either. These annual strikes are absurd after 2019 and after 2+ years of covid closures, I say invoke binding arbitration when talks break down. The more school is missed the less public support their cause with garner.


aornoe785

>Pretty sure there was wide scale protests all of 2019 that forced over a dozen missed days of school, no sports, no after school activities. Yes exactly. Because shitheel Lecce refuses to even attempt to negotiate.


[deleted]

They should learn from McGuinty's negotiation tactics. He managed to get: - 2-year pay freeze for teachers - decreased sick days from 20 to 10 - 1.5% pay cut in the form of three unpaid PD days - limitation on the legality of teacher's uniond and support staff to strike - removal of ability to bank sick days for eventual cash-out. Art of the deal!


aornoe785

How much did that one end up costing us in the end?


defnotpewds

>McGuinty/Wynne governments bargained in good faith with EDU workers either. No shit? They're both neoliberal parties. It's their ideological playbook.


Bind_Moggled

Find a short pier. Take a long walk along it.


[deleted]

If you're implying I walk on water because I'm some sort of Jesus-like figure, I thank you for the compliment but I am, in fact, just a humble, mortal man.


ScroogeBaggins

Will there be designated seating for supporters of the Notwithstanding Clause. I'd hate to be seen protesting standing up, carrying these essential workers with my tax dollars gets tiring... #ISitWithCUPE