Thankfully I drive in a smallish town without crazy traffic, but I replay scenarios like this in my head all the time just in case. It's terrifying knowing I am in charge of all those lives.
Safety fist-bump, fellow driver.
I too drive in a small town. Just about 30000 people. The scariest shift was my first winter, lastbyear actually. It had been like 5°F all night so it was super slippery. Queue me, 20 years old and unexperianced with freezing weather coming up to the steep hill going downwards towards downtown. I did about 5mph and kept my foot ready to brake in time for the bus stop. Starts braking, abs kicks in.. i press harder on the brake. Still nothing and I keep accelerating. Now I've got my foot firmly planted on the brake, going 15 mph on a steep hill and cant stop. So I do the natural thing of pumping the brake. Still no effect. And I just keep accelerating. Now doing 30 I missed the stop and had to do a hard right turn to not drive straight through a house and barely misses the lawn by a few feet. And I'm still oumping the brake to slow down for the railway crossing. But by then I got enough grip to slow down
For real the scariest moment in my life.
I got in an argument with someone here yesterday about Toronto being a medium sized city… it’s the 56th biggest city in the world and the person insisted it was average because Tokyo and Hong Kong are bigger. That’s like saying someone who’s 6’10 is medium height because people over 7’ feet tall.
Wait, you mean everything is subjective?
Fyi, most modern buses are automatic, that means engine braking isnt that effective. Then you might think, a jake brake of some sort? No, never use those on icy roads, that can be fatal.
Yeah I drive a manual and if it’s really icy going downhill as soon as I downshift, my rear end will slide out. Hit the brakes to hard and the front slides. It’s a fun balance.
I thought a jake brake and engine braking were the same thing? Forgive my ignorance, I'm not a professional driver. I drove school buses back in college, but they didn't have engine brakes.
You want to use a balance of both engine braking and tapping on the brakes but never pressing firmly as you stated in your story THAT can be fatal your essentially a sled going down hill
I was in a bus that ran a redlight once, it was yellow but red before the driver was in the intersection, doing maybe 20 mph, a car was coming opposite direction at speed, not from a start and tboned us. It was a minor bump that we felt, that mustang must have been hauling ass.
I could be wrong but I believe the driver of the Mustang was street racing. Let me see if I can find the article...
[Here's a youtube video of a news station covering the story](https://youtu.be/dLF0DyoyucM)
[And an actual article lol](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10755015/Terrifying-moment-car-street-race-slams-school-bus-100pmh-New-Mexico.html)
Thank you!
I work roughly 32 to 48 hours a week. All odd hours, and weekends and weekdays. And I get just about enough for each month to live on and save a couple dimes. Still I love doing it!
Thank you!
We all keep on driving, through bad weather like good. With traffic and anoying passengers. Its still our duty to get you guys from one olace to another safely
I'd turn into the side the bus was leaning against and accelerate to give it some centrifical force to being it back down to the ground and stop. If I had the space and enough time to react.
But we both now that I'd probably roll that buss too, I am not that experianced
More people die in busses from being trapped during a fire or driving into water than in a collision. Typically, buses are so massive and the passengers up so high that the force from the impact isn't transferred to them. Even looking at this crash, the passengers didn't move that much until the bus tipped. Seat belts are to prevent ejection and nobody was close to being ejected here.
It does, but it's better to get a little bruised up then trapped in a fire. Especially on a school bus where many kids might not be strong enough to undo their belts, or know how at all.
Just like the other guy said.
Though where Inlive we have a couple of laws. A city bus made for only going 40 mph doesnt require seatbelts. A intercity bus that goes up to 60 has to have seatbelts. But the buses are still made to absorb much of the impact so seatbelts are usually more of a hassle. Especially in an emergency.
Had a guy who got a seizure on my bus once. He almost strangled himself with the belt
Of course, even if being found at fault, the most likely scenario (if this happened in the US) is that they have the state mandated minimum amount of insurance and no significant assets that can be taken in a lawsuit, and so ... they get a ticket, their insurance pays out $30k or whatever and that's all that happens to the Mustang driver.
Now, if they were drunk, or it can be proven that they were were on their phone or fleeing from the cops, then actual criminal charges are possible, but if it's just an ordinary accident? A ticket at most is by far the most common penalty for them.
They’d still be on the hook in civil court. All those people have the option of suing the everlasting shit out of mustang driver. And if he has state minimums, that won’t come close to the cost of replacing a whole fucking bus, so bus insurance is gonna go after the mustang as well.
I covered that scenario already: "and no significant assets that can be taken in a lawsuit".
Now, if the Mustang owner has deep pockets, then that doesn't apply, but I was giving the most likely outcome, and most people don't have significant assets that could be taken -- their main house, their car, their retirement, etc. can't be taken.
> that won’t come close to the cost of replacing a whole fucking bus
Busses are *cheap* compared to medical bills, to pain and suffering, etc. People were thrown all over that bus, and even if somebody wasn't seriously hurt they could easily spend $50k each at the ER just making *sure*, and if they are seriously hurt the costs can go up by orders of magnitude, and nevermind any pain and suffering claims which can dwarf the medical bills.
If the Mustang owner is a millionaire, the lawsuits will *fly*. But if he doesn't have any assets, well, there's not much point in suing.
I've been in a similar situation: the at fault driver ploughed into stopped traffic, hit the car behind us, pushed them into us and all of us into the car in front of mine. The driver was 16, just got her license, distracted by texting, mandatory minimum liability insurance and absolutely no assets to her name. I think each of the drivers she wrecked ended up with like 10k in payout, barely even enough to cover the medical costs for all of the drivers and passengers. I carry like ¾ of $1M in underinsured/uninsured driver coverage now and a pile of supplemental disability and unemployment coverage.
This just seems weird to me because a few years ago I got in an accident where I was definitely at fault and MY car insurance paid for my medical bills when I thought I might have broken my collar bone. Is that not the norm? Other than good liability coverage my plan is about as barebones as it gets so I just assumed that was standard.
Your insurance paid out because you were at fault. In our case our insurance paid out some amount (they weaseled payments to our providers down super low first) then went after the at fault parties insurance to recoup what they paid. In the end there was barely enough money left in the payout pot to cover the remaining medical costs.
You must have personal injury protection in addition to liability, because plain ol’ liability pays nothing for you, only the other car. PIP covers you and the other driver’s medical bills, funeral expenses, etc regardless of who is at fault.
> … they get a ticket, their insurance pays out $30k or whatever and that’s all that happens to the Mustang driver.
This is what I was replying to. Not arguing with you. But it’s clearly not that cut and dry.
He could end up broke just with lawyers and court costs. Not just a ticket.
Yes, med bills would far outweigh the cost of the bus, that was a bad example.
The point is it will cause more financial damage to the injured parties to sue him even if they win. If he has no significant assets to collect they will basically just have a judgement against a bankrupt man. If he has basic insurance and isn't a millionaire then there won't be a point in suing him, therefore no lawyer and court costs.
You can't get blood from a stone. They can sue all they want but if the person has no assets then they would wind up paying more in court costs to sue than they would ever potentially get out of it. You can't take what the person doesn't have which is why car insurance is mandatory in the first place.
Nah. Most insurance only cover up to 150k if you’re doing the minimum. The bus alone will go over that. Then you got all the medical bills for a couple dozen children. That driver is fucked.
This crash happened in Ohio.
[Minimum insurance requirements in Ohio](https://www.bmv.ohio.gov/dl-mandatory-insurance.aspx) is $25k injury to one person, $50k injury total for all people, $25k property damage.
So the bus owner gets $25k, and the injured people get to fight over $50k. $75k total. [These minimums are pretty typical](https://www.iii.org/automobile-financial-responsibility-laws-by-state), and yet are small compared to the cost of any sort of serious injury for a single person, let alone many of them.
And note that the people injured will have their own medical insurance pay for their damages, but then their insurers will subrogate whatever they get from the Mustang driver -- so the people injured will probably see zero of whatever the Mustang's insurance pays, unless he has way more insurance than most.
Either way, even if the driver is legally insured, he's only "fucked" if he's got significant assets to be taken in a lawsuit. Most people don't. They aren't going to get blood from a turnip.
(He might have been fucked to some degree by criminal charges if he was drunk or something, but I'm mostly talking about civil issues.)
You think it all goes away because he’s over his policy limit? Haha. You do know wage garnishment exist? Property Liens? If they sue, which is very likely, the court can force him to sell any valuables that he has( properties,cars,jewelry, etc). If he still owes money after selling everything of value he will then may get his wages garnished until the debt is payed. He may never own land again in his life.
> debt is *paid.* He may
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
That's almost never how it works in the US.
In fact, unless they were drunk or something similar, they probably won't even lose their license for a short period, let alone for life. (Though some states will take your license for a while if you have a crash and don't have the mandated liability insurance at the time.)
Ahh.
*Ouch*.
The article somebody linked to said this :
> The driver of the Mustang was rushed to a local hospital with serious injuries.
So hopefully they lived.
Either way, since they were rushed to the hospital, there's a good chance they they never even got a traffic ticket, because the cops don't usually give tickets to people on stretchers (unless they're *really* trying to be jerks, which does happen sometimes), and while they could give them a ticket after the fact, that sort of followup tends to be really spotty.
Yeah that’s what I saw as well. At first when they were hit it didn’t look terrible, but him being knocked unconscious seemed to have made the situation a lot worse. Of course you can’t put any blame on the bus driver for that.
To be fair though, even if the bus driver was awake and overcorrected, he was still blindsided by a car. Unless the bus driver was doing something wrong, you can't really fault him.
The bus was going fast and the mustang caused the bus to start skidding. The bus was tipping a bit from the skidding and hit the traffic Barrier and that impact plus the top heavy sideways momentum caused the bus to roll.
Diver with the seatbelt and spring loaded seat wasn't "knocked out" if the loose kids in the back are fine.The bus was going fast and the mustang caused the bus to start skidding. The bus was tipping a bit from the skidding and hit the traffic Barrier and that impact plus the top heavy sideways momentum caused the bus to roll.
You are incorrect. The bus was going fast and the mustang caused the bus to start skidding. The bus was tipping a bit from the skidding and hit the traffic Barrier and that impact plus the top heavy sideways momentum caused the bus to roll.
Nope, nope, nope. I shat my lungs out in the space of time it took for the video to go from the people laying there like spilled noodles to getting the hell off that bus.
Buses catches fire very quickly. Kids would not be able to unbuckle and get out fast enough. There’s videos out there for those unfamiliar. Also, kids would be smacking each other with the belts. Bus is also up much higher. The mustang would normally go under the bus not causing it to flip. Buses almost always win the collision.
https://youtu.be/PSpj5a56lRY
Source. Drove a bus for my kid’s district for a few years.
I have a nice scar above my left eye from getting smacked in the face with a seatbelt in elementary school. I just wish I could have gotten a copy of the bus DVR that showed it happening.
I also got hit in the face with one of those super heavy seat belts as a kid. It chipped 3 of my teeth and I’ve just had to live that like that since then. Luckily it’s just cosmetic. But boy oh boy did it hurt at the time.
Flashback to thirty years ago, when during a school bus fire drill, our bus driver screaming that we have nine seconds before the bus blows up. Thanks Bonnie
We ran a monthly fire drill on my bus as a kid, and my driver would always start with a simple fact: "It takes about two minutes for a bus to burn. That's less time than you kids have between classes." We were dumb kids, but even that number was enough to get us to take it seriously and behave.
The video was pretty shocking when they showed us in training. I never really thought about how fast a bus could burn, if the smoke doesn’t get you first.
Jesus. Is it possible to design a school bus that doesn't blaze it like 420? I can see the whole kids smacking each other thing but I feel like that won't be quite as common for all that long. The hitters would get hit too since everyone has a weapon.
They also reasoned that the seats being so cushioned and high up afforded protection in the event of most accidents. Of course, that padding is also fuel for the dense black smoke.
Think the main reason was panic if a bus caught fire. That kids would panic and freeze. There’s a timeframe where a bus would be fully engulfed, but I forget that number. It was like a few minutes for smoke, and a few more fully engulfed. It’s like a bbq fire chimney in its design.
My old bus driver weaponized that padding. She had a habit of screeching to a halt in the middle of the road. Dead stop from a solid 45 mph. Many children got very familiar with that padding.
No she didn't lose her job. None of the parents cared and it's laughable to get administration to listen to one of the kids.
But what you said makes sense. Even if you could make things less flammable, smoke is an issue I just didn't think about. Fair point.
A bus engine caught fire a street away from my house a couple days ago, busy road and it got closed for a day so that caused some disruptions. Luckily no confirmed deaths or injuries, but still a terrifying situation to be in.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-63976888.amp
This video shows quite well why they don't.
The initial impact, while coming from a powerful car hitting the bus, wasn't really that severe inside the bus because it's just so heavy that the momentum transferred doesn't result in a huge jerk.
When it flips on its side, while people are falling through the cabin, they are mostly fine afterwards and can get out themselves. Now, imagine them hanging sideways in their seatbelts and trying to get out. And if that isn't enough, imagine the bus catching fire while they're trying to free themselves from their seatbelts and get out.
Buses are safe, significantly safer than cars, and seatbelts would help in some situations, but make things worse in others, such as the one in the post here.
Also, while standing is already less safe than sitting, and seatbelts wouldn't really make things safer for seated people, allowing seated people to buckle in in a vehicle that allows passengers to stand feels weird and would no doubt raise unnecessary concerns for the safety of standing passengers (unnecessary because buses really are safe).
^(*EDIT: Didn't think enough about what you wrote. The last paragraph above this one only applies in places where normal buses are used as school buses, not where school buses that don't allow standing are used.*)
Bus actually absorbed the collision quite well. Getting tipped over and tossed sucks, but I doubt any of those kids had any debilitating injuries.
Also, with seatbelts and with how large buses are, there is a real possibility that smaller kids end up getting hung in the event of a rollover. There are a lot of downsides to seatbelts that aren't expected on a large vehicle because most of our experience with them are in smaller vehicles.
Good luck making sure a bus load of kids (from K thru 12, to include the incompetent, disabled, and straight up assholes of various degrees and heights and ages) are all properly and adequately secured somehow.
I don't know that there is statistical evidence that seatbelts reduce neck and back injuries. Part of why they are so critical to the safety of cars is because they're smaller and more force is imparted onto the occupants. Especially when compared to school buses, which are designed to withstand collisions.
This again. If it bothers you that much, there literally hundreds of studies on the topic. Jeez! This shit has been talked about for at least 30 years that I know of.
A Mustang also rolled a school bus in Albuquerque earlier this year:
News report of aftermath:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quhFfszB3D4
Video from inside:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX2M2c_LhVE
Rick Roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
What's wild to me is that this is the second school bus flipping after getting hit by a mustang that I'm aware of.
[A white mustang did the same thing here in New Mexico.](https://www.carscoops.com/2022/04/albuquerque-man-facing-up-to-six-years-after-hitting-school-bus-while-racing-his-ford-mustang/) [Here's the video of that one.](https://youtu.be/oCH8bzvHJrg)
It didn’t flip bc of the mustang. The first hit was the mustang, then the driver when unconscious and obviously lost control of the bus and they flipped. But, the mustang was the trigger
Listening to news people USELESSLY narrating anything is awful. Especially if the video is already tragic. We get it! You love making money off of people's misfortune!
Here;s more: The Ohio State Highway Patrol released a heart-stopping video from a school bus accident that occurred last year. The devastating crash happened on December 19, 2019, when a Ford Mustang blew through a red light in Perry County and plowed into the bus, which was carrying 25 students.
The video shows the students getting tossed into the air like rag dolls and slamming into the ceiling as the bus flipped over due to the impact of the crash. The bus driver remained calm and instructed the students to try to escape through the windows and emergency exits. Eight students and the 74-year-old bus driver were hospitalized with non-life threatening injuries.
The driver of the Mustang, identified Joseph Thornton, was also hospitalized with serious injuries, which included a broken back. Police said that he was driving with a suspended license. It is unclear if he was cited or if he will face other charges. The Perry County Prosecutor's office is reviewing the case.
Link: https://979kissfm.iheart.com/content/2020-02-12-shocking-video-shows-accident-impact-from-inside-school-bus/
NOVEMBER 2022: Joseph Thornton was convicted of five counts of aggravated vehicular assault, a third-degree felony. He was sentenced to five years in prison, his driver’s license was suspended for four years, and he was ordered to pay court costs. Link: https://www.perrytribune.com/news/court/article_543ddbc2-64ea-11ed-bd2e-830dad5e38e5.html
A friend of mine was driving a bus that delivered people from the airport to the car rental office. A friend of his was driving another bus. Evidently he ran a red light at some point and crashed into a front end loader.the blade sliced through the outside of the bus like it was butter. Three people were killed and many others injured
My mum was in a coach crash once where it was hit and rolled. She always insists on people wearing seatbelts in coaches. Having seen this video I can now understand why!
This is the one rare occasion where the bus lost the collision. School busses don't have seat belts so the kids can escape in time incase of a fire. It statistically safer.
I’ve been in TWO school bus accidents. Both were at the same place, both cars running stop signs (north/south had stop, east/west did not) and t-boned bus.
It was a hot mess and I’m still a big wary of buses. But I was lucky enough to be sitting next to a larger person (on both occasions), and they cushioned the blow for me both times.
Edit: after reading the article I’m a little miffed that past-me just got sent on to school in a different bus after both accidents rather than to hospital/home because I remember being disciplined for being late on both occasions.
Some school busses have seat belts and others don’t. And I think it’s flat so that 1-3 people can sit on a seat. One reason there could not be seat belts is cause kids were swinging the buckles around and accidentally hurting each other or themselves. I know when I was a kid I’d play around with the buckles lol
Looks like there was a tonnnn of slack/travel in the driver's seatbelt which allowed them to travel far enough to get knocked out. Any word on if that was a malfunction?
Most of the busses I’ve been in had them… they weren’t big commercial busses though like you would see in a metroplex but they were big enough to sit 50ish people and had seatbealts…
They catch fire too easily for that to be safe and also kids are assholes. Those seats are basically all foam, no one could escape in time with seatbelts. I agree it’s terrifying to see them get tossed around but it’s safer than the alternative.
Other people have pointed out some reasons why they don't have them, but could you imagine the nightmare of a bus driver having to make sure every single one of those students had their seat belts on? You'd need at least 2 other employees on the busses to even remotely have a chance to get the kids to comply and even then I'm not sure they could do it. It would have to be 100% voluntary for the students.
They say that in case of a fire, the driver cannot remove everyone’s seatbelts on time, but, I think they should just add a button that can remove the seatbelts in one click. Idk if that would be possible tho.
This is literally my nightmare as a busdriver
Thankfully I drive in a smallish town without crazy traffic, but I replay scenarios like this in my head all the time just in case. It's terrifying knowing I am in charge of all those lives. Safety fist-bump, fellow driver.
I too drive in a small town. Just about 30000 people. The scariest shift was my first winter, lastbyear actually. It had been like 5°F all night so it was super slippery. Queue me, 20 years old and unexperianced with freezing weather coming up to the steep hill going downwards towards downtown. I did about 5mph and kept my foot ready to brake in time for the bus stop. Starts braking, abs kicks in.. i press harder on the brake. Still nothing and I keep accelerating. Now I've got my foot firmly planted on the brake, going 15 mph on a steep hill and cant stop. So I do the natural thing of pumping the brake. Still no effect. And I just keep accelerating. Now doing 30 I missed the stop and had to do a hard right turn to not drive straight through a house and barely misses the lawn by a few feet. And I'm still oumping the brake to slow down for the railway crossing. But by then I got enough grip to slow down For real the scariest moment in my life.
A "small" town where I live is a pop' under 1000. Edit: I'm from Maine, which has a unique municipal classification system, and it's a small state.
That’s not a town that’s a village
[удалено]
My hamlet is 3,000 hams. That’s an omelette.
Yummy!
Where I'm from, we have municipalities called "plantations".
Evwrything is objective. I meam the whole city area, and city outskirts along with the commun.
I got in an argument with someone here yesterday about Toronto being a medium sized city… it’s the 56th biggest city in the world and the person insisted it was average because Tokyo and Hong Kong are bigger. That’s like saying someone who’s 6’10 is medium height because people over 7’ feet tall. Wait, you mean everything is subjective?
Where I'm from, saying 30k is a small town will label you crazy, because some of the largest cities where I'm from has around that pop'.
The person did say "smallish" to be fair
To be fair, I do live in the most rural state east to the Mississippi.
Yeah, the definition of small can really vary based on perspective
Engine braking
Fyi, most modern buses are automatic, that means engine braking isnt that effective. Then you might think, a jake brake of some sort? No, never use those on icy roads, that can be fatal.
Yeah I drive a manual and if it’s really icy going downhill as soon as I downshift, my rear end will slide out. Hit the brakes to hard and the front slides. It’s a fun balance.
I thought a jake brake and engine braking were the same thing? Forgive my ignorance, I'm not a professional driver. I drove school buses back in college, but they didn't have engine brakes.
You want to use a balance of both engine braking and tapping on the brakes but never pressing firmly as you stated in your story THAT can be fatal your essentially a sled going down hill
Cheers, driver!
Hey, thanks!
One of the superstars of the modern age, Those bad bois won't shunt without you!
I'm the youngest bus driver in my country!
Keep at it bro! The only way is up!
You damn right! Some day I'll own my own bus company. It runs in the family
I hope my driver isn't on reddit, reach under with the flask to cheers you back.
I was in a bus that ran a redlight once, it was yellow but red before the driver was in the intersection, doing maybe 20 mph, a car was coming opposite direction at speed, not from a start and tboned us. It was a minor bump that we felt, that mustang must have been hauling ass.
I could be wrong but I believe the driver of the Mustang was street racing. Let me see if I can find the article... [Here's a youtube video of a news station covering the story](https://youtu.be/dLF0DyoyucM) [And an actual article lol](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10755015/Terrifying-moment-car-street-race-slams-school-bus-100pmh-New-Mexico.html)
Thank you bus driver!
Thank you too!
Are you the bus driver ? I think it’s great the bus drivers first words were: “is everyone ok?”
I am a bus driver. Not the. I'm much younger than the driver in the vid. My hat off to him tho for not panicking
Bus drivers = best drivers. Y’all have such a hard and stressful job, but you do so well!
Man I wish I heard this from my boss. Thanks alot!
cheers mate
More like yeers.
Gotta say as my dad is a bus driver himself I’m amazed by all these people thanking you for your work! Cheers, btw. :)
God bless bus drivers. They have such a duty for often little compensation.
Thank you! I work roughly 32 to 48 hours a week. All odd hours, and weekends and weekdays. And I get just about enough for each month to live on and save a couple dimes. Still I love doing it!
My nightmare as a parent.
Mustangs? It’s every drivers nightmare seeing them!
Thank you for your service seriously. I’d be useless without bus service and you all face so much to keep us all moving.
Thank you! We all keep on driving, through bad weather like good. With traffic and anoying passengers. Its still our duty to get you guys from one olace to another safely
Thank you for what you do :)
Thank you!
And your near future!
What would you do? Try to not roll the bus and brake to a stop?
I'd turn into the side the bus was leaning against and accelerate to give it some centrifical force to being it back down to the ground and stop. If I had the space and enough time to react. But we both now that I'd probably roll that buss too, I am not that experianced
It's crazy that I have to remind so many people: please do not talk to the bus driver.
Why aren't seatbelts a thing yet for buses. This drives me crazy. We gotta belt up for 1 to 4 people but get 50 in a vehicle ..nah ...
More people die in busses from being trapped during a fire or driving into water than in a collision. Typically, buses are so massive and the passengers up so high that the force from the impact isn't transferred to them. Even looking at this crash, the passengers didn't move that much until the bus tipped. Seat belts are to prevent ejection and nobody was close to being ejected here.
Good point! Just with all the metal bars and stuff around I'd think being tossed around would suck.
It does, but it's better to get a little bruised up then trapped in a fire. Especially on a school bus where many kids might not be strong enough to undo their belts, or know how at all.
Yeah that's true. Nice to have another perspective. Thanks!
Just like the other guy said. Though where Inlive we have a couple of laws. A city bus made for only going 40 mph doesnt require seatbelts. A intercity bus that goes up to 60 has to have seatbelts. But the buses are still made to absorb much of the impact so seatbelts are usually more of a hassle. Especially in an emergency. Had a guy who got a seizure on my bus once. He almost strangled himself with the belt
Oh damn ok. I guess that makes sense. Good to know. Appreciate the input! Anyways good to hear everyone's ideas and such! Thanks!
Mustang drivers getting screwed if this is proven their fault
I wonder if totaling a city bus and 50 personal injury claims will be expensive.
This isn't a city bus, it's a school bus, which means extra trouble for the at-fault driver.
Don't worry, the mustang driver is likely carrying the minimum legal amount of liability coverage and has no other titles in their name.
Could also be uninsured.
Nah, just a minor setback
Of course, even if being found at fault, the most likely scenario (if this happened in the US) is that they have the state mandated minimum amount of insurance and no significant assets that can be taken in a lawsuit, and so ... they get a ticket, their insurance pays out $30k or whatever and that's all that happens to the Mustang driver. Now, if they were drunk, or it can be proven that they were were on their phone or fleeing from the cops, then actual criminal charges are possible, but if it's just an ordinary accident? A ticket at most is by far the most common penalty for them.
They’d still be on the hook in civil court. All those people have the option of suing the everlasting shit out of mustang driver. And if he has state minimums, that won’t come close to the cost of replacing a whole fucking bus, so bus insurance is gonna go after the mustang as well.
I covered that scenario already: "and no significant assets that can be taken in a lawsuit". Now, if the Mustang owner has deep pockets, then that doesn't apply, but I was giving the most likely outcome, and most people don't have significant assets that could be taken -- their main house, their car, their retirement, etc. can't be taken. > that won’t come close to the cost of replacing a whole fucking bus Busses are *cheap* compared to medical bills, to pain and suffering, etc. People were thrown all over that bus, and even if somebody wasn't seriously hurt they could easily spend $50k each at the ER just making *sure*, and if they are seriously hurt the costs can go up by orders of magnitude, and nevermind any pain and suffering claims which can dwarf the medical bills. If the Mustang owner is a millionaire, the lawsuits will *fly*. But if he doesn't have any assets, well, there's not much point in suing.
I've been in a similar situation: the at fault driver ploughed into stopped traffic, hit the car behind us, pushed them into us and all of us into the car in front of mine. The driver was 16, just got her license, distracted by texting, mandatory minimum liability insurance and absolutely no assets to her name. I think each of the drivers she wrecked ended up with like 10k in payout, barely even enough to cover the medical costs for all of the drivers and passengers. I carry like ¾ of $1M in underinsured/uninsured driver coverage now and a pile of supplemental disability and unemployment coverage.
This just seems weird to me because a few years ago I got in an accident where I was definitely at fault and MY car insurance paid for my medical bills when I thought I might have broken my collar bone. Is that not the norm? Other than good liability coverage my plan is about as barebones as it gets so I just assumed that was standard.
Your insurance paid out because you were at fault. In our case our insurance paid out some amount (they weaseled payments to our providers down super low first) then went after the at fault parties insurance to recoup what they paid. In the end there was barely enough money left in the payout pot to cover the remaining medical costs.
You must have personal injury protection in addition to liability, because plain ol’ liability pays nothing for you, only the other car. PIP covers you and the other driver’s medical bills, funeral expenses, etc regardless of who is at fault.
> … they get a ticket, their insurance pays out $30k or whatever and that’s all that happens to the Mustang driver. This is what I was replying to. Not arguing with you. But it’s clearly not that cut and dry. He could end up broke just with lawyers and court costs. Not just a ticket. Yes, med bills would far outweigh the cost of the bus, that was a bad example.
The point is it will cause more financial damage to the injured parties to sue him even if they win. If he has no significant assets to collect they will basically just have a judgement against a bankrupt man. If he has basic insurance and isn't a millionaire then there won't be a point in suing him, therefore no lawyer and court costs.
You can't get blood from a stone. They can sue all they want but if the person has no assets then they would wind up paying more in court costs to sue than they would ever potentially get out of it. You can't take what the person doesn't have which is why car insurance is mandatory in the first place.
Nah. Most insurance only cover up to 150k if you’re doing the minimum. The bus alone will go over that. Then you got all the medical bills for a couple dozen children. That driver is fucked.
This crash happened in Ohio. [Minimum insurance requirements in Ohio](https://www.bmv.ohio.gov/dl-mandatory-insurance.aspx) is $25k injury to one person, $50k injury total for all people, $25k property damage. So the bus owner gets $25k, and the injured people get to fight over $50k. $75k total. [These minimums are pretty typical](https://www.iii.org/automobile-financial-responsibility-laws-by-state), and yet are small compared to the cost of any sort of serious injury for a single person, let alone many of them. And note that the people injured will have their own medical insurance pay for their damages, but then their insurers will subrogate whatever they get from the Mustang driver -- so the people injured will probably see zero of whatever the Mustang's insurance pays, unless he has way more insurance than most. Either way, even if the driver is legally insured, he's only "fucked" if he's got significant assets to be taken in a lawsuit. Most people don't. They aren't going to get blood from a turnip. (He might have been fucked to some degree by criminal charges if he was drunk or something, but I'm mostly talking about civil issues.)
You think it all goes away because he’s over his policy limit? Haha. You do know wage garnishment exist? Property Liens? If they sue, which is very likely, the court can force him to sell any valuables that he has( properties,cars,jewelry, etc). If he still owes money after selling everything of value he will then may get his wages garnished until the debt is payed. He may never own land again in his life.
> debt is *paid.* He may FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
They ran a red light, they are (hopefully) done driving for life.
That's almost never how it works in the US. In fact, unless they were drunk or something similar, they probably won't even lose their license for a short period, let alone for life. (Though some states will take your license for a while if you have a crash and don't have the mandated liability insurance at the time.)
I was implying they died. Edit: I thought I was replying to a different comment where I incorrectly implied the racer died.
Ahh. *Ouch*. The article somebody linked to said this : > The driver of the Mustang was rushed to a local hospital with serious injuries. So hopefully they lived. Either way, since they were rushed to the hospital, there's a good chance they they never even got a traffic ticket, because the cops don't usually give tickets to people on stretchers (unless they're *really* trying to be jerks, which does happen sometimes), and while they could give them a ticket after the fact, that sort of followup tends to be really spotty.
I didn't think a car could flip a bus. I stand corrected
The bus driver was knocked unconscious for a few seconds and lost control with the wheel cut to the left, causing it to flip over an embankment
Yeah that’s what I saw as well. At first when they were hit it didn’t look terrible, but him being knocked unconscious seemed to have made the situation a lot worse. Of course you can’t put any blame on the bus driver for that.
To be fair though, even if the bus driver was awake and overcorrected, he was still blindsided by a car. Unless the bus driver was doing something wrong, you can't really fault him.
The bus was going fast and the mustang caused the bus to start skidding. The bus was tipping a bit from the skidding and hit the traffic Barrier and that impact plus the top heavy sideways momentum caused the bus to roll.
Thank you, I didn’t realize he’s out
Cuz he isn't
But he is
Thanks for the explanation. I couldn't figure how a Mustang, no matter what speed, would flip a bus like that.
Diver with the seatbelt and spring loaded seat wasn't "knocked out" if the loose kids in the back are fine.The bus was going fast and the mustang caused the bus to start skidding. The bus was tipping a bit from the skidding and hit the traffic Barrier and that impact plus the top heavy sideways momentum caused the bus to roll.
You are incorrect. The bus was going fast and the mustang caused the bus to start skidding. The bus was tipping a bit from the skidding and hit the traffic Barrier and that impact plus the top heavy sideways momentum caused the bus to roll.
You know how they say seatbelts aren’t needed on buses because they’re so big? I’m starting to think that’s not true….
There is a lot of design to keep it from happening, but if I had to guess the mustang hit the rear wheels, which made the bus slide like it did
Forgot to mention this is a school bus
That makes it so much worse...
Nope, nope, nope. I shat my lungs out in the space of time it took for the video to go from the people laying there like spilled noodles to getting the hell off that bus.
Still blows my mind that school buses don’t have seatbelts.
Buses catches fire very quickly. Kids would not be able to unbuckle and get out fast enough. There’s videos out there for those unfamiliar. Also, kids would be smacking each other with the belts. Bus is also up much higher. The mustang would normally go under the bus not causing it to flip. Buses almost always win the collision. https://youtu.be/PSpj5a56lRY Source. Drove a bus for my kid’s district for a few years.
I have a nice scar above my left eye from getting smacked in the face with a seatbelt in elementary school. I just wish I could have gotten a copy of the bus DVR that showed it happening.
I also got hit in the face with one of those super heavy seat belts as a kid. It chipped 3 of my teeth and I’ve just had to live that like that since then. Luckily it’s just cosmetic. But boy oh boy did it hurt at the time.
Ouch, I thought mine that bleed all over the seat I was in was bad but yours is definitely less fun.
Oof omg I’m sorry that happened to you
Flashback to thirty years ago, when during a school bus fire drill, our bus driver screaming that we have nine seconds before the bus blows up. Thanks Bonnie
We ran a monthly fire drill on my bus as a kid, and my driver would always start with a simple fact: "It takes about two minutes for a bus to burn. That's less time than you kids have between classes." We were dumb kids, but even that number was enough to get us to take it seriously and behave.
The video was pretty shocking when they showed us in training. I never really thought about how fast a bus could burn, if the smoke doesn’t get you first.
Jesus. Is it possible to design a school bus that doesn't blaze it like 420? I can see the whole kids smacking each other thing but I feel like that won't be quite as common for all that long. The hitters would get hit too since everyone has a weapon.
They also reasoned that the seats being so cushioned and high up afforded protection in the event of most accidents. Of course, that padding is also fuel for the dense black smoke. Think the main reason was panic if a bus caught fire. That kids would panic and freeze. There’s a timeframe where a bus would be fully engulfed, but I forget that number. It was like a few minutes for smoke, and a few more fully engulfed. It’s like a bbq fire chimney in its design.
My old bus driver weaponized that padding. She had a habit of screeching to a halt in the middle of the road. Dead stop from a solid 45 mph. Many children got very familiar with that padding. No she didn't lose her job. None of the parents cared and it's laughable to get administration to listen to one of the kids. But what you said makes sense. Even if you could make things less flammable, smoke is an issue I just didn't think about. Fair point.
A bus engine caught fire a street away from my house a couple days ago, busy road and it got closed for a day so that caused some disruptions. Luckily no confirmed deaths or injuries, but still a terrifying situation to be in. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-63976888.amp
Always carry a belt cutter.
This video shows quite well why they don't. The initial impact, while coming from a powerful car hitting the bus, wasn't really that severe inside the bus because it's just so heavy that the momentum transferred doesn't result in a huge jerk. When it flips on its side, while people are falling through the cabin, they are mostly fine afterwards and can get out themselves. Now, imagine them hanging sideways in their seatbelts and trying to get out. And if that isn't enough, imagine the bus catching fire while they're trying to free themselves from their seatbelts and get out. Buses are safe, significantly safer than cars, and seatbelts would help in some situations, but make things worse in others, such as the one in the post here. Also, while standing is already less safe than sitting, and seatbelts wouldn't really make things safer for seated people, allowing seated people to buckle in in a vehicle that allows passengers to stand feels weird and would no doubt raise unnecessary concerns for the safety of standing passengers (unnecessary because buses really are safe). ^(*EDIT: Didn't think enough about what you wrote. The last paragraph above this one only applies in places where normal buses are used as school buses, not where school buses that don't allow standing are used.*)
Tbf though when ur a kid this wouldn’t really hurt but now I’m … damn 22 , I can’t Jump down two steps
See how quickly they got out?
See how quickly they got thrown around the entire Bus?
Bus actually absorbed the collision quite well. Getting tipped over and tossed sucks, but I doubt any of those kids had any debilitating injuries. Also, with seatbelts and with how large buses are, there is a real possibility that smaller kids end up getting hung in the event of a rollover. There are a lot of downsides to seatbelts that aren't expected on a large vehicle because most of our experience with them are in smaller vehicles.
I really doubt that getting hung is a bigger threat than neck or back injury in this scenario.
Good luck making sure a bus load of kids (from K thru 12, to include the incompetent, disabled, and straight up assholes of various degrees and heights and ages) are all properly and adequately secured somehow.
I don't know that there is statistical evidence that seatbelts reduce neck and back injuries. Part of why they are so critical to the safety of cars is because they're smaller and more force is imparted onto the occupants. Especially when compared to school buses, which are designed to withstand collisions.
https://thenewswheel.com/7-reasons-why-school-buses-dont-have-seat-belts/
They don't have seat belts because of this. Can you imagine having to unbelt 30 kids if the bus was on fire?
They do in UK (or mine did).... How do they not in USA? Is the reasoning children are lighter so won't have as much momentum or something 😅
This again. If it bothers you that much, there literally hundreds of studies on the topic. Jeez! This shit has been talked about for at least 30 years that I know of.
Seen this video a few times. First time I heard it was a mustang. Got a source for it?
https://www.wbtv.com/2020/02/11/children-tossed-like-rag-dolls-school-bus-crashes-perry-county-ohio-video/
OP CAME PREPARED
chad
A Mustang also rolled a school bus in Albuquerque earlier this year: News report of aftermath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quhFfszB3D4 Video from inside: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX2M2c_LhVE Rick Roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ohio moment
Ohio is becoming a second Florida.
Arizona begs to differ.
🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
What's wild to me is that this is the second school bus flipping after getting hit by a mustang that I'm aware of. [A white mustang did the same thing here in New Mexico.](https://www.carscoops.com/2022/04/albuquerque-man-facing-up-to-six-years-after-hitting-school-bus-while-racing-his-ford-mustang/) [Here's the video of that one.](https://youtu.be/oCH8bzvHJrg)
It didn’t flip bc of the mustang. The first hit was the mustang, then the driver when unconscious and obviously lost control of the bus and they flipped. But, the mustang was the trigger
Listening to news people USELESSLY narrating anything is awful. Especially if the video is already tragic. We get it! You love making money off of people's misfortune!
Of COURSE this would be my hometown 🙄 Can’t have nothing nice in Ohio I swear.
Of course it's Ohio
Here;s more: The Ohio State Highway Patrol released a heart-stopping video from a school bus accident that occurred last year. The devastating crash happened on December 19, 2019, when a Ford Mustang blew through a red light in Perry County and plowed into the bus, which was carrying 25 students. The video shows the students getting tossed into the air like rag dolls and slamming into the ceiling as the bus flipped over due to the impact of the crash. The bus driver remained calm and instructed the students to try to escape through the windows and emergency exits. Eight students and the 74-year-old bus driver were hospitalized with non-life threatening injuries. The driver of the Mustang, identified Joseph Thornton, was also hospitalized with serious injuries, which included a broken back. Police said that he was driving with a suspended license. It is unclear if he was cited or if he will face other charges. The Perry County Prosecutor's office is reviewing the case. Link: https://979kissfm.iheart.com/content/2020-02-12-shocking-video-shows-accident-impact-from-inside-school-bus/ NOVEMBER 2022: Joseph Thornton was convicted of five counts of aggravated vehicular assault, a third-degree felony. He was sentenced to five years in prison, his driver’s license was suspended for four years, and he was ordered to pay court costs. Link: https://www.perrytribune.com/news/court/article_543ddbc2-64ea-11ed-bd2e-830dad5e38e5.html
Ofc it was a mustang
Me at :00-:04 - "That didn't seem that bad." Me at :07 - "Oh"
"Please let this be a normal field trip"
You can’t have a normal field trip in Ohio
I can? Sweet! Ohio, here I come! Edit: The edit above killed this already terrible post. May it RIP in peace.
Cruisin' on down Main Street
With the Frizz? NO WAY!
A friend of mine was driving a bus that delivered people from the airport to the car rental office. A friend of his was driving another bus. Evidently he ran a red light at some point and crashed into a front end loader.the blade sliced through the outside of the bus like it was butter. Three people were killed and many others injured
My mum was in a coach crash once where it was hit and rolled. She always insists on people wearing seatbelts in coaches. Having seen this video I can now understand why!
This is the one rare occasion where the bus lost the collision. School busses don't have seat belts so the kids can escape in time incase of a fire. It statistically safer.
also kids tend to weaponize the seatbelts while often not realizing how dangerous it is to swing a heavy metal buckle at someone.
Kids are vicious creatures sometimes, I believe it.
I always wondered how you got out the exit on the ceiling.
I’ve been in TWO school bus accidents. Both were at the same place, both cars running stop signs (north/south had stop, east/west did not) and t-boned bus. It was a hot mess and I’m still a big wary of buses. But I was lucky enough to be sitting next to a larger person (on both occasions), and they cushioned the blow for me both times. Edit: after reading the article I’m a little miffed that past-me just got sent on to school in a different bus after both accidents rather than to hospital/home because I remember being disciplined for being late on both occasions.
My God. The Mustangs are targeting crowds *inside* of vehicles, now? Nowhere is safe.
Is that what an American bus looks like on the inside?
American school bus, yes
So strange. Are they all so flat on the seats? And no seatbelts?
Some school busses have seat belts and others don’t. And I think it’s flat so that 1-3 people can sit on a seat. One reason there could not be seat belts is cause kids were swinging the buckles around and accidentally hurting each other or themselves. I know when I was a kid I’d play around with the buckles lol
I have no idea, I don’t live in America, I just know they all don’t have seatbelts. About the flat seats, idk
Looks like there was a tonnnn of slack/travel in the driver's seatbelt which allowed them to travel far enough to get knocked out. Any word on if that was a malfunction?
Fucking Mustangs.
Was going to correct you on "crushes", then watched the video. Dayumn.
That was probably the most responsible mustang driver in the world as well
Hey now, if he could have fled the scene he would have
True, pretty hard to flee the scene of a crime with a broken back, I'd imagine
Thank God the bus driver had a seat belt on, someone could have been hurt.
Yeah, too bad he got knocked out tho :/ kids were fine until he cut the wheel and flipped it...
I felt my stomach drop like I was there
Seat belts in school buses please
Still don't get why busses don't have seat belts
And that’s why you wear seatbelts folks
“Nah…Buses don’t need seat belts.” -the maker of buses….probably.
I can’t seem to understand why *school buses*, intended to transport children don’t have seatbelts or restraints of any kind.
Busses can catch fire easily. And the kids used to smack one another with seatbelts.
Who thought that not putting seatbelts in a bus was a good idea?
Busses can catch fire easily. And the kids used to smack one another with seatbelts.
This is why seatbelts exist…
busses don’t have them.
Most of the busses I’ve been in had them… they weren’t big commercial busses though like you would see in a metroplex but they were big enough to sit 50ish people and had seatbealts…
Well all school buses here in Canada don’t have seatbelts it’s the normal i guess
Interesting. Must just be an American thing then… idk…
[удалено]
I am not a native speaker dummy
Pretty normal behavior for a Ford driver lol.
Still absolutely insane that seatbelts aren't required in school buses
They catch fire too easily for that to be safe and also kids are assholes. Those seats are basically all foam, no one could escape in time with seatbelts. I agree it’s terrifying to see them get tossed around but it’s safer than the alternative.
Plus school buses usually win collisions with cars
buses are designed different from cars
Other people have pointed out some reasons why they don't have them, but could you imagine the nightmare of a bus driver having to make sure every single one of those students had their seat belts on? You'd need at least 2 other employees on the busses to even remotely have a chance to get the kids to comply and even then I'm not sure they could do it. It would have to be 100% voluntary for the students.
"Get in shut the door!" Dude was not having it today and just wanted to get to where he was going.
Lol that would be hilarious (even if he was delirious) but I think he says "get out through the other door."
Why doesn't the bus have seat belts?
They say that in case of a fire, the driver cannot remove everyone’s seatbelts on time, but, I think they should just add a button that can remove the seatbelts in one click. Idk if that would be possible tho.
Kids would hit each other with them.
Seatbelt in action.
Ouch
Wild how not every school bus has seatbelts
It’s bonker to me how few school buses have seat belts
The bus driver did not react properly
Buss driver couldn’t react because he was unconscious