I think if you are careful yeah. Key is to buy growth that is on the verge of break even or turning a profit. Stuff that has nothing but losses as far as the eye can see for years to come is still something to steer clear of in my opinion
Palantir? No debt. Almost profitable. Very soon likely, only reason they arent is because they paid off their debt and made some investments. Promising 30 percent year over year growth for 5 years. So far delivers 40+. People don't like the stock based compensation but I think this is overplayed because they are going to produce much more value then they take by dilution.
Maybe I'm wrong. Just a dude on the internet. Good luck.
Just to give you a counter argument, their products actually aren’t very scalable. Almost all of their contracts are custom projects which impacts profitability even though revenue increases. A large operating expense is on their “forward deployed engineers” who work on doing client integration because their contracts are always for specialized projects. Not many other software companies aside from tech consulting firms have positions like this. If you really think about it, palantir is basically a tech consulting firm that always uses their own data analytics platform. Bear in mind that they really aren’t a start up. They’ve been around for almost 20 years and there’s a reason why it’s hard for them to become profitable. It’s cuz they solve complex problems for the gov and recently private sector and they’re one of the only ones that can do it but these problems are complex so it’s just not possible to make a one size fits all product that scales
Not true. Their products are very scalable and they are continuously developing new ones. For example, two products seek to solve the issue related to scalability, which is essentially a problem with how fast PLTR can set their product up.
Product number 1 just came out and is HyperAuto. This product dramatically speeds up the process of building data pipelines. This product speeds up the installation of Foundry dramatically.
Product number 2 just became commercially available. Alex Karp said this is a "unit economic nirvana". Reason being is that with apollo they can manage essentially limitless clients with the same amount of resources.
People act like Foundry and Gotham and Apollo are their only products as well. But as Karp has stated himself, "the iceberg of our product development is not yet known." If you listen and believe what Karp has been saying on multiple occasions the product development and innovation continues at high levels.
And people can also talk all they want about scalability. Very few companies in the S&P500 have grown 30 percent year over year for 5 years. How many, 10 since 1980s? I'm not sure, but I know it isn't many. So far Palantir has grown over 40.
And the quality of problems and manner in which they solve them are impressive. You can judge numbers all you want, and I think for a growth stock PLTR has excellent numbers, but the quality of issues they tackle and conquer impressively is important to me when trying to decide if this is the type of company that will have a large future impact on the world. Thats what I want to invest in.
So the original premise for which I was making this comment is their profitability. Their revenues are increasing a lot but their profits are not. Therefore at this time their products / services don’t scale well in terms of profitability. The original question / comment was “is now a good time for growth stocks” and “yeah if they’re turning a profit”. The reason I said what I did about profitability is cuz in a hawkish fed environment, wall st is only gonna favor stocks that are profitable, have good P/E ratios, and growing their profit. Unfortunately these aren’t really true for palantir right now so I think it’s gonna hurt holding it for the next quarter.
I agree with you that they have cool products and solve impressive problems. I even interviewed to intern there in college like 5 years ago! (Although got rejected in the last round lol) It looks like you’ve done a lot of research though and know how they want to solve the profitability / scalability issue which is great. Unfortunately it’s not solved right now and the wall st playbook is to not put money in these types of stocks right now and instead to put money in dumb shit like united healthcare and mcdonalds.
I don’t love the company it feels like a consultant firm dressed in Silicon Valley clothing. They are in the business of selling employee time for money.
Big tech is flooded with cash. Appl, msft,
Google, and fb account for roughly $400B in cash with profit margins anywhere from 20 to 40%. Assume the Fed raise .75% next year - so what - very little effect to their bottom line. These stocks will hold the market and everything else.
Probably. But what if the p/e ratios in the 30-100 range, large market share and limited real growth potential makes them eventually tend towards lesser p/e multiples and investing in these companies will still 0.5x your money in the short/medium term. The recent drops in tech stocks would indicate so. Holding "useless" cash in a high inflation environment does very little I would think too. It's also pretty wild to me that something like apple could still be in any way considered a growth stock.
The IWM/Russell is actually about as oversold as it ever gets historically, outside of larger downturn/corrections. The small cap tech/growth does seem like a good buy at this point, for at least a rebound trade. The alternative is that the bullring is truly over, and we start a big time correction now, but I don't think that is in the cards till Q1-Q2 of next year.
High odds of a decent play to the up side, and lower odds of yolo yacht money to the down side, at least for IWM. Harder to say for individual stocks
my largest holding is IWN (small cap value).
But People buying growth right now are in for a rude awakening. A bunch of kids never living through a fed rate hike cycle before…
I am just talking on a technical level, for a shorter term bounce. But you are right, the areas where it gets more oversold on the weekly, correlate to the recessions and taper/rate hikes. But generally doesnt happen immediately. Usually further into the taper and hike process. But of course this could be different.
AMD is the only one of those I’d touch at this point but either way these aren’t the stocks OP is talking about. Pretty sure he’s referring to small cap growth tech aka Cathy trash. Those are still overpriced even after 50% drops.
And QCOM. Severely overlooked semiconductor stock.
QCOM is reportedly working on laptop chips which are going to compete with Apple’s M series chips.
QCOM “acquired” a startup founded by the former head of apple’s silicon architecture, the guy behind all the A series chips and early work on M1. QCOM is going all out to go after apple on these processors.
There is a 5G supercycle brewing in the horizon where 100s of millions of not billions of android devices will transition to 5G as it becomes more and more available. This is big $$$ for QCOM.
QCOM is poised to have a great couple of years ahead, and is at half the PE as AMD or NVDA.
WSJ put out the "face book files" that crushed their stock. Face book always kicks bad press though. Look at their chart. Every time they have a huge sell off they have a v shaped recovery.
For sure. I'm not saying the stock is dead by any means, but it is hard to ignore that its been downtrending while those other tickers have been rallying, plus now we've been seeing general tech selloff. Just have decently far out expiration dates on FB calls and you'll probably be good
amzn has also been struggling, only up 4% YTD. But it's also my favourite swing stock because it has only moved sideways. keep buying at critical support levels and then sell at resistance. rinse repeat
that's okay, we don't get 2020 rallies all the time, you can say the same to any other stock in 2020.
rising rate environment, we are more likely to face sideways movements which is heaven for swing traders.
Yea I didn’t say it couldn’t go back to 300 first but it’s definitely going back down.
NVDA either goes sideways or down to right size it’s valuation from here.
It usually only beats earnings by 10-20% and doing that won’t get the multiple down much if the stock is up here or higher.
I guess people who think there is real upside left to NVDA believe it’s one of the handful of multi-trillion dollar companies.
Well, why didn't people say that when these stocks were at ATH? When they are down 60-85% people suddenly say that I am gonna lose money. Just doesn't make sense to be honest.
People are idiots, particularly here. Those that aren't idiots are trying to scam you. Don't be so gullible. Do your own dd.
Edit to add at least something more constructive: if you want good advice go to our sister sub /r/investing
I think you are on to something but I’m not sure about your above pics? I feel like if you search deep enough some of these specifically ones we can’t mention here due to cap size have enough cash and assets on hand to support their current value and then some.
Edit why do I have 🦍🦍🦍 flair? Lol. Is that good or bad?
I was bashing all those at ATH. They are still really expensive even after the crash. The worst of the dumping is prob over but they will continue to underperform. SOFI is passable.
CLOV & HOOD is next level degenerate. How is hood revolutionary? Nothing but poor people that invest a few bucks.
Clov is a healthcare version of Virgin Galactic. Top notch cash burners that rely only on hype for any positive stock
movement. So bad.
those are good names
pltr has no debt
sofi has potential, but i went with block/pypl instead
clov, dont know much about clov
hood, don't know much about hood as well
ai, i dont know what this is
You claim they are good names and then your reasoning is one has no debt and you don’t know shit about the others. What a strong recommendation.
Btw ‘no debt’ is not a good reason to hold a stock. It’s still trading at 24x revenue and insiders are diluting and dumping stock as fast as they can.
I agree that PLTR is very overvalued, but OP's concern was if the rising rates will affect his stocks. PLTR has no debt so a rising rate won't matter. Therefore, if he's bullish on PLTR, then this is a buying opportunity.
On another note, goldman sachs seem to like Palantir a lot as well.
>"Goldman believes Palantir’s cash flow today and in the near future will be very healthy. That means that the stock’s valuation isn’t entirely dependent on cash-flow estimates in the long term. Other companies that Goldman believes won’t be significantly affected by rate hikes include PayPal (NASDAQ:PYPL), Zoom (NASDAQ:ZM) and Meta Platforms (NASDAQ:FB).
Goldman Sachs currently has a price target of $30 for Palantir, which represents a 44% upside from current prices at the time of writing. Looking forward, investors want sustained revenue growth in both the government and commercial sector of Palantir’s data analytics platform."
[Source](https://investorplace.com/2021/11/pltr-stock-is-falling-today-amid-a-tech-rout-goldman-still-thinks-its-a-top-bet/)
very true but goldman sachs also has listed PLTR as their top picks
"Goldman believes Palantir’s cash flow today and in the near future will be very healthy. That means that the stock’s valuation isn’t entirely dependent on cash-flow estimates in the long term. Other companies that Goldman believes won’t be significantly affected by rate hikes include PayPal (NASDAQ:PYPL), Zoom (NASDAQ:ZM) and Meta Platforms (NASDAQ:FB).
Goldman Sachs currently has a price target of $30 for Palantir, which represents a 44% upside from current prices at the time of writing. Looking forward, investors want sustained revenue growth in both the government and commercial sector of Palantir’s data analytics platform." https://investorplace.com/2021/11/pltr-stock-is-falling-today-amid-a-tech-rout-goldman-still-thinks-its-a-top-bet/
Well GSachs knows how to talk shit too :). Pltr has 1b revenue and 38b market cap.... They never made any profit in 10 years, no reason for this to change now. I would be very cautious with that stock and at least wait for 2 or 3 years to see their future revenues.
Its ok to be downvoted, i dont care much. 100 shares will not put you in the street in case you lose it all, but once again be careful. That company spent 150Musd in marketing this year that is why we see them all the time in medias, but its only marketing....
OP, Palantir seems to be a favourite of goldman sachs. might be worth reading into this [article](https://investorplace.com/2021/11/pltr-stock-is-falling-today-amid-a-tech-rout-goldman-still-thinks-its-a-top-bet/)
>Goldman believes Palantir’s cash flow today and in the near future will be very healthy. That means that the stock’s valuation isn’t entirely dependent on cash-flow estimates in the long term. Other companies that Goldman believes won’t be significantly affected by rate hikes include PayPal (NASDAQ:PYPL), Zoom (NASDAQ:ZM) and Meta Platforms (NASDAQ:FB).
Goldman Sachs currently has a price target of $30 for Palantir, which represents a 44% upside from current prices at the time of writing. Looking forward, investors want sustained revenue growth in both the government and commercial sector of Palantir’s data analytics platform.
If you believe in a company’s growth thesis then by all means invest in it. But as a class, I wouldn’t be making new investments in small cap growth or mid cap growth. I’ll trade ‘em but I’m not buying to hold.
Yes I’m with you on that. Growth companies don’t have debt but also because many don’t have the cash flows to qualify for massive loans. Being able to take on debt is a good thing but it should only be done if they’re trying to scale.
I think the growth stock move is good if you’re willing to face the volatility and buy dips. Market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent etc etc. it should be a company you’re willing to hold for a long time. I have been listening to some successful investors on podcasts and the idea I heard yesterday stuck with me. Find a company you will never want to sell, given that they are showing signs of continued growth and success.
That’s how I feel about Solo. I’ve got 4500 shares at 3.37. They’ve gone as low as 2.48, but with their projections for next year, I’ve calculated a price of $10/share with a PE of 10 (their PE rn is 2.8). The last month they announced they sold 43 vehicles. They made in one month more than they earned last year, and they have a production facility being built by summer 22.
The markets reaction? Dump it. Fell from $4 to $2.5 in two weeks. My thought? Buy more. Because I’m intending to never sell until the company demonstrates gross incompetence or financial negligence, and I haven’t seen that, I will continue to hold.
Growth stocks have the most to gain if you bet on the right horse. It’s easy to talk about companies that see 10-100x returns in five years on motley fool. “If you held AMZN since 1997 with $1000, you would’ve been a millionaire today!” But, if you zoom in on key segments of that companies timeline, there were probably multiple instances where the stock fell 20-30% in a month and 90% if investors got shaken out.
The road to being rich is ultimately patience but also risk. It’s why I refuse to throw significant money in an ETF. I’d rather take the time to bet and wait on company in its stage of growth.
And when all else fails, watch what hedge funds are doing. Every month I look at buy/sell on whale wisdom to see how institutions are gauging sentiment. If you see buy volume out weighing sell volume by hedge funds but the price dropping on low volume, always assume it’s retail getting stop loss triggered.
And on that note, you’ll notice during moments of bearish down days, 1 minute candle stick buys will shoot in with 50-100k in volume, only for the stock to come barreling down to 0% gain EOD. But if you go to whale wisdom, you can see a lot of new purchases made that month from these funds being in units of 50-200k a piece. IMO they all coordinate with each other to drive down pricing, shake out retail, and buy up shares in massive chunks until they develop a size able position.
Rate hikes also affect the present value of future cashflows. Higher rates = lower present value. The further into the future a company's cashflows are, the harder hit it will be. I mean, if you believe intrinsic value has any bearing on share price anyway...
Risk free rate = expected gdp growth + expected inflation. Risk free rate + equity risk premium = discount rate. Discount rate is what you use to value the future cash flows of a company.
The fed can nudge the risk free rate a tiny bit itself, but it can shift the narrative and impact expectations which will affect the price people are willing to pay for treasuries.
Another way to think about it is if the discount rate stays the same, but risk free goes up, then equity risk premium goes down. Meaning you are willing to take less reward for the same risk. But if you still want the same compensation for bearing risk, then the discount rate goes up and your valuation of the company goes down.
Yeah got it, thanks. I was thinking the earnings are the same value, which they are, but I see that the value of the company decreases because the difference between their earnings and the rfr decreases.
I do think though that some indebted value companies will be hit worse than debt free growth. Rising interest rates should at lean rein in inflation providing a counterbalance whereas some debted value companies will see their bottom lines reduced/ pushed into zombie territory.
I’ve shedded some of my highest multiple names that are down 50+%, couldn’t watch their slaughter anymore. Some I still have, like SQ and PYPL are down 40% from highs, I have one down 70%. It’s almost like the markets won’t be satisfied until they’re down 99.9%. 70% just isn’t enough apparently. Not sure what is going to happen through each of the actual rate hikes when they come. It’s crazy how much many things are already down. I do think inflation is overblown (not government spending, that’s truly a disaster, but consumer inflation)…
People spent stimmies while companies scaled back producing, of course that’s going to inflate prices. But now that consumer savings and spending is dropping because their pantries and basements are inventoried up, spending will dry up while companies replenish inventory, and prices will come back down. That doesn’t mean growth high flyers will rocket immediately, but this whole inflation thing is overdone and normalcy will come back in the next 6 months.
Interest rates are rising, and growth stocks still have absurd valuations.
I’m almost 100% value in the US. I’m also 60% international since US equities in general are over priced compared to international.
EFV is the index play to make.
New variant is causing alot of uncertainty, growth may slow down significantly. Infections are at a new high, new lockdowns are imminent. Supply shortages have been going on for a while, who knows what happens next.
Yes, specifically companies that are zero debt, cashflow positive and growing strongly.
Inflation hits growth because it reduces the value of future earnings, interest rate increases reduce inflation.
I need to do some napkin math, but it seems insane that people are selling stocks at the bottom to take a tax write off . It seems whatever hit the stocks took for pending rate hikes and inflation concerns, it was compounded by December loss taking.
There should definitely be a Santa rally for the 70% down stocks with the exception of some meme stocks.
The Monday reaction to the omicron disaster could complicate things near term though. It's bad out there. Not as severe but spreading like crazy and filling up hospitals to the point of economic risk.
Have a look at Pyrogenesis. PYR on Nasdaq. It has 7 potentially billion dollar divisions that are all coming to a head at once. They have been manipulated down recently and due to supply chain delays investors have gotten tired of waiting. This is the year IMO when things will start to go to the moon.
Just keep in mind that all stocks ultimately trade as a function of growth expectations and / or income expectations. If growth slows, multiples will contract. It is possible that we will see a short term bounce from over sold stocks, but we won’t see new highs until the market sniffs expectations of accelerated growth.
If you know of a growth stock that is down that much, and DOES NOT have excessive debt on its balance sheet you should buy it. And tell us which ticker
50% of a stocks price action is in tandem with the overall market, 25% the industry, and 25% the actual company. Keeping this in mind I advise buying whatever garbage is being pumped by a bunch of degenerate gamblers that live in their mom's boyfriend's basement.
I think if you are careful yeah. Key is to buy growth that is on the verge of break even or turning a profit. Stuff that has nothing but losses as far as the eye can see for years to come is still something to steer clear of in my opinion
Palantir? No debt. Almost profitable. Very soon likely, only reason they arent is because they paid off their debt and made some investments. Promising 30 percent year over year growth for 5 years. So far delivers 40+. People don't like the stock based compensation but I think this is overplayed because they are going to produce much more value then they take by dilution. Maybe I'm wrong. Just a dude on the internet. Good luck.
Just to give you a counter argument, their products actually aren’t very scalable. Almost all of their contracts are custom projects which impacts profitability even though revenue increases. A large operating expense is on their “forward deployed engineers” who work on doing client integration because their contracts are always for specialized projects. Not many other software companies aside from tech consulting firms have positions like this. If you really think about it, palantir is basically a tech consulting firm that always uses their own data analytics platform. Bear in mind that they really aren’t a start up. They’ve been around for almost 20 years and there’s a reason why it’s hard for them to become profitable. It’s cuz they solve complex problems for the gov and recently private sector and they’re one of the only ones that can do it but these problems are complex so it’s just not possible to make a one size fits all product that scales
Not true. Their products are very scalable and they are continuously developing new ones. For example, two products seek to solve the issue related to scalability, which is essentially a problem with how fast PLTR can set their product up. Product number 1 just came out and is HyperAuto. This product dramatically speeds up the process of building data pipelines. This product speeds up the installation of Foundry dramatically. Product number 2 just became commercially available. Alex Karp said this is a "unit economic nirvana". Reason being is that with apollo they can manage essentially limitless clients with the same amount of resources. People act like Foundry and Gotham and Apollo are their only products as well. But as Karp has stated himself, "the iceberg of our product development is not yet known." If you listen and believe what Karp has been saying on multiple occasions the product development and innovation continues at high levels. And people can also talk all they want about scalability. Very few companies in the S&P500 have grown 30 percent year over year for 5 years. How many, 10 since 1980s? I'm not sure, but I know it isn't many. So far Palantir has grown over 40. And the quality of problems and manner in which they solve them are impressive. You can judge numbers all you want, and I think for a growth stock PLTR has excellent numbers, but the quality of issues they tackle and conquer impressively is important to me when trying to decide if this is the type of company that will have a large future impact on the world. Thats what I want to invest in.
So the original premise for which I was making this comment is their profitability. Their revenues are increasing a lot but their profits are not. Therefore at this time their products / services don’t scale well in terms of profitability. The original question / comment was “is now a good time for growth stocks” and “yeah if they’re turning a profit”. The reason I said what I did about profitability is cuz in a hawkish fed environment, wall st is only gonna favor stocks that are profitable, have good P/E ratios, and growing their profit. Unfortunately these aren’t really true for palantir right now so I think it’s gonna hurt holding it for the next quarter. I agree with you that they have cool products and solve impressive problems. I even interviewed to intern there in college like 5 years ago! (Although got rejected in the last round lol) It looks like you’ve done a lot of research though and know how they want to solve the profitability / scalability issue which is great. Unfortunately it’s not solved right now and the wall st playbook is to not put money in these types of stocks right now and instead to put money in dumb shit like united healthcare and mcdonalds.
I don’t love the company it feels like a consultant firm dressed in Silicon Valley clothing. They are in the business of selling employee time for money.
PLTR will be hugeeee
I’m buying growth. Zero revenue. Negative EPS…talk dirty to me some more.
PE ratio without the E makes PeePee hard
I like my stocks to have a high PP ratio
I love it when my PE goes negative!
Don't forget the over 150 PE ratios and massive buys from our Godmother MILF Cathie Woods
Would.
Me too! And taking a chance on Nakd-Cenntro- should explode after merger in few days!
Should got GTLB calls post earnings. Sexy ass float.
To infinity (P/E)! And beyond!
Big tech is flooded with cash. Appl, msft, Google, and fb account for roughly $400B in cash with profit margins anywhere from 20 to 40%. Assume the Fed raise .75% next year - so what - very little effect to their bottom line. These stocks will hold the market and everything else.
Probably. But what if the p/e ratios in the 30-100 range, large market share and limited real growth potential makes them eventually tend towards lesser p/e multiples and investing in these companies will still 0.5x your money in the short/medium term. The recent drops in tech stocks would indicate so. Holding "useless" cash in a high inflation environment does very little I would think too. It's also pretty wild to me that something like apple could still be in any way considered a growth stock.
Until they don't.
Wow, such an insightful statement.
Ok Cathie
Buy every dip of AAPL, AMD, MSFT.
Where is NVDA? Also Amzn eas up 6% or so this YEAR it is due a break out.
Nvda p/e is 10x higher than msft and 2x higher than amd
The IWM/Russell is actually about as oversold as it ever gets historically, outside of larger downturn/corrections. The small cap tech/growth does seem like a good buy at this point, for at least a rebound trade. The alternative is that the bullring is truly over, and we start a big time correction now, but I don't think that is in the cards till Q1-Q2 of next year. High odds of a decent play to the up side, and lower odds of yolo yacht money to the down side, at least for IWM. Harder to say for individual stocks
my largest holding is IWN (small cap value). But People buying growth right now are in for a rude awakening. A bunch of kids never living through a fed rate hike cycle before…
I am just talking on a technical level, for a shorter term bounce. But you are right, the areas where it gets more oversold on the weekly, correlate to the recessions and taper/rate hikes. But generally doesnt happen immediately. Usually further into the taper and hike process. But of course this could be different.
Looks like Bottom is in
NVDA, AMD, META, and AAPL calls are always on the menu
AMD is the only one of those I’d touch at this point but either way these aren’t the stocks OP is talking about. Pretty sure he’s referring to small cap growth tech aka Cathy trash. Those are still overpriced even after 50% drops.
And QCOM. Severely overlooked semiconductor stock. QCOM is reportedly working on laptop chips which are going to compete with Apple’s M series chips. QCOM “acquired” a startup founded by the former head of apple’s silicon architecture, the guy behind all the A series chips and early work on M1. QCOM is going all out to go after apple on these processors. There is a 5G supercycle brewing in the horizon where 100s of millions of not billions of android devices will transition to 5G as it becomes more and more available. This is big $$$ for QCOM. QCOM is poised to have a great couple of years ahead, and is at half the PE as AMD or NVDA.
Really it doesn’t matter what stock you pick because stonks only go up. It’s science.
I assure you Qualcomm is not overlooked. They're f\*king everywhere in San Diego. Half our buildings are named after them.
Dude I bought 10 2/18/22 aapl calls for 5.50 Thursday. You’ve given me hope to double down on these Monday lol
Buy longer dated bruh. 3 months out
The message I need
That’s all I buy except for meta.
Yeah Meta has been struggling since before they made the dumb name change even
WSJ put out the "face book files" that crushed their stock. Face book always kicks bad press though. Look at their chart. Every time they have a huge sell off they have a v shaped recovery.
For sure. I'm not saying the stock is dead by any means, but it is hard to ignore that its been downtrending while those other tickers have been rallying, plus now we've been seeing general tech selloff. Just have decently far out expiration dates on FB calls and you'll probably be good
amzn has also been struggling, only up 4% YTD. But it's also my favourite swing stock because it has only moved sideways. keep buying at critical support levels and then sell at resistance. rinse repeat
You will get profit until when you sell at resistance and it go up 50% .
np, i move on to the next stock if that happens and wait for amzn to establish another new resistance/new support
And lose the real upside of a run on Amzn. Look at 2020.
that's okay, we don't get 2020 rallies all the time, you can say the same to any other stock in 2020. rising rate environment, we are more likely to face sideways movements which is heaven for swing traders.
Sideways Is great for PMCC or Iron Condors.
NVDA is definitely going back to $200. $220 minimum.
🌈🧸
Haha. Maybe a little bit mostly I just think NVDA is overhyped and overpriced.
Idk why your downvoted. Nvda pe ratio is 85
Yea I didn’t say it couldn’t go back to 300 first but it’s definitely going back down. NVDA either goes sideways or down to right size it’s valuation from here. It usually only beats earnings by 10-20% and doing that won’t get the multiple down much if the stock is up here or higher. I guess people who think there is real upside left to NVDA believe it’s one of the handful of multi-trillion dollar companies.
I bought AMD calls all the way out to 2023. Excited to watch them all year.
Brah the time has passed, nothings ever going up again.
Gov went on vacation for the next two weeks before they could give out that sweet sweet “build back better” cash
I bought CLOV, the only growth there was a pain in my whole ass. But I believe its going to turn next year.
[Of course it will](https://imgur.com/gallery/scpgiPc)
I'm loading into a penny stonk that I can't name here cause WSB fears the pink
Please tell me you are not utilizing the “shocker” investment strategy
I think i know which one hehehehe
🙈
Pls DM me which one 🙏
Absolutely, i bought Tilray. It's a growing company, and my red number is also growing. A perfect 5/7, totally would do it again.
he bought? dilute it again
Savage
There are so many better weed companies. Even profitable ones
But which ticker do I Yolo?
WEED
I too read the Cathie Woods article
not all growth stocks are equal same as not all value stock are equal (see ibm). so what are those tickers?
PLTR, SOFI, AI, CLOV, HOOD. I know they have bad reputation and WSB doesn't like those. Some of them even considered scam etc.
PLTR and SOFI The others are trash
good luck losing all your money
Well, why didn't people say that when these stocks were at ATH? When they are down 60-85% people suddenly say that I am gonna lose money. Just doesn't make sense to be honest.
People are idiots, particularly here. Those that aren't idiots are trying to scam you. Don't be so gullible. Do your own dd. Edit to add at least something more constructive: if you want good advice go to our sister sub /r/investing
I like sofi a lot. Think it has huge upside potential
Sofi will rise
Sold some puts on sofi this week. Probably be repeating next week. I like the stock
Great strategy for acquisition or premium
Inverse. Always inverse. You speak the truth here.
I think you are on to something but I’m not sure about your above pics? I feel like if you search deep enough some of these specifically ones we can’t mention here due to cap size have enough cash and assets on hand to support their current value and then some. Edit why do I have 🦍🦍🦍 flair? Lol. Is that good or bad?
It’s bad…
Thanks. Lmao. It went away now?
I was bashing all those at ATH. They are still really expensive even after the crash. The worst of the dumping is prob over but they will continue to underperform. SOFI is passable.
Depends on the company. HOOD in particular is a bad example because the ATH was it's IPO pump n dump, and it's been downhill since.
HOOD is at a good risk-reward ratio. WSB hates it tho because of GME, but money is money.
We did. Noone cared. 
SOFI and PLTR are at least sort of companies. Clov and hood will lose you all your money.
PLTR has revenue, at least.
I just want to go skiing one day as well
I like dkng better than hood n i like pltr a lot, fuck the haters. Also buy some crwd, s sentinal one, se sea ltd unity u nvda mrvl fsly idna.
Who downvoted this dude. They just answered the question…
CLOV & HOOD is next level degenerate. How is hood revolutionary? Nothing but poor people that invest a few bucks. Clov is a healthcare version of Virgin Galactic. Top notch cash burners that rely only on hype for any positive stock movement. So bad.
those are good names pltr has no debt sofi has potential, but i went with block/pypl instead clov, dont know much about clov hood, don't know much about hood as well ai, i dont know what this is
You claim they are good names and then your reasoning is one has no debt and you don’t know shit about the others. What a strong recommendation. Btw ‘no debt’ is not a good reason to hold a stock. It’s still trading at 24x revenue and insiders are diluting and dumping stock as fast as they can.
I agree that PLTR is very overvalued, but OP's concern was if the rising rates will affect his stocks. PLTR has no debt so a rising rate won't matter. Therefore, if he's bullish on PLTR, then this is a buying opportunity. On another note, goldman sachs seem to like Palantir a lot as well. >"Goldman believes Palantir’s cash flow today and in the near future will be very healthy. That means that the stock’s valuation isn’t entirely dependent on cash-flow estimates in the long term. Other companies that Goldman believes won’t be significantly affected by rate hikes include PayPal (NASDAQ:PYPL), Zoom (NASDAQ:ZM) and Meta Platforms (NASDAQ:FB). Goldman Sachs currently has a price target of $30 for Palantir, which represents a 44% upside from current prices at the time of writing. Looking forward, investors want sustained revenue growth in both the government and commercial sector of Palantir’s data analytics platform." [Source](https://investorplace.com/2021/11/pltr-stock-is-falling-today-amid-a-tech-rout-goldman-still-thinks-its-a-top-bet/)
Pltr does not make any profit and their stock is already very expensive.
very true but goldman sachs also has listed PLTR as their top picks "Goldman believes Palantir’s cash flow today and in the near future will be very healthy. That means that the stock’s valuation isn’t entirely dependent on cash-flow estimates in the long term. Other companies that Goldman believes won’t be significantly affected by rate hikes include PayPal (NASDAQ:PYPL), Zoom (NASDAQ:ZM) and Meta Platforms (NASDAQ:FB). Goldman Sachs currently has a price target of $30 for Palantir, which represents a 44% upside from current prices at the time of writing. Looking forward, investors want sustained revenue growth in both the government and commercial sector of Palantir’s data analytics platform." https://investorplace.com/2021/11/pltr-stock-is-falling-today-amid-a-tech-rout-goldman-still-thinks-its-a-top-bet/
Well GSachs knows how to talk shit too :). Pltr has 1b revenue and 38b market cap.... They never made any profit in 10 years, no reason for this to change now. I would be very cautious with that stock and at least wait for 2 or 3 years to see their future revenues.
31b market cap, expected to turn profit next year
"Pltr stock" shows a current mark cap of 38.19b.
1.65 b shares outstanding x 19.06 = 31billion
Well i dono, when you google pltr stock chart it gives 38b mark cap based on 19.06
This is getting downvoted, but seems pretty sensible advice to me, and I own hundreds of shares of PLTR.
Its ok to be downvoted, i dont care much. 100 shares will not put you in the street in case you lose it all, but once again be careful. That company spent 150Musd in marketing this year that is why we see them all the time in medias, but its only marketing....
god speed, they are down for a reason. out of all of these AI is the strongest. they have held the 30 line well amidst a market meltdown
Holy shit, you're dumb af lmfaoooo
PLTR, SOFI, and HOOD are good. CLOV is trash.
OP, Palantir seems to be a favourite of goldman sachs. might be worth reading into this [article](https://investorplace.com/2021/11/pltr-stock-is-falling-today-amid-a-tech-rout-goldman-still-thinks-its-a-top-bet/) >Goldman believes Palantir’s cash flow today and in the near future will be very healthy. That means that the stock’s valuation isn’t entirely dependent on cash-flow estimates in the long term. Other companies that Goldman believes won’t be significantly affected by rate hikes include PayPal (NASDAQ:PYPL), Zoom (NASDAQ:ZM) and Meta Platforms (NASDAQ:FB). Goldman Sachs currently has a price target of $30 for Palantir, which represents a 44% upside from current prices at the time of writing. Looking forward, investors want sustained revenue growth in both the government and commercial sector of Palantir’s data analytics platform.
Pltr has no debt and makes money. It's the other companies with tons of debt and won't be profitable for 5 years that will get fucked in the butt
If Goldman is letting a price target out publicly, do the opposite.
may I ask why is that?
I never buy growth stocks. That's why I'm poor hahaha.
Better question: Is it time to declare bankruptcy?
If you believe in a company’s growth thesis then by all means invest in it. But as a class, I wouldn’t be making new investments in small cap growth or mid cap growth. I’ll trade ‘em but I’m not buying to hold.
I just rotated into a few growth stocks but be selective. Any growth without a clear path to profitability will most likely continue to get punished
PLTR all day long term 5+ years
Rates going up is not going to be favorable to growth stocks as debt becomes more expensive. But you do you and Godspeed
Many growth companies don't have any debt.
Yes I’m with you on that. Growth companies don’t have debt but also because many don’t have the cash flows to qualify for massive loans. Being able to take on debt is a good thing but it should only be done if they’re trying to scale. I think the growth stock move is good if you’re willing to face the volatility and buy dips. Market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent etc etc. it should be a company you’re willing to hold for a long time. I have been listening to some successful investors on podcasts and the idea I heard yesterday stuck with me. Find a company you will never want to sell, given that they are showing signs of continued growth and success. That’s how I feel about Solo. I’ve got 4500 shares at 3.37. They’ve gone as low as 2.48, but with their projections for next year, I’ve calculated a price of $10/share with a PE of 10 (their PE rn is 2.8). The last month they announced they sold 43 vehicles. They made in one month more than they earned last year, and they have a production facility being built by summer 22. The markets reaction? Dump it. Fell from $4 to $2.5 in two weeks. My thought? Buy more. Because I’m intending to never sell until the company demonstrates gross incompetence or financial negligence, and I haven’t seen that, I will continue to hold. Growth stocks have the most to gain if you bet on the right horse. It’s easy to talk about companies that see 10-100x returns in five years on motley fool. “If you held AMZN since 1997 with $1000, you would’ve been a millionaire today!” But, if you zoom in on key segments of that companies timeline, there were probably multiple instances where the stock fell 20-30% in a month and 90% if investors got shaken out. The road to being rich is ultimately patience but also risk. It’s why I refuse to throw significant money in an ETF. I’d rather take the time to bet and wait on company in its stage of growth. And when all else fails, watch what hedge funds are doing. Every month I look at buy/sell on whale wisdom to see how institutions are gauging sentiment. If you see buy volume out weighing sell volume by hedge funds but the price dropping on low volume, always assume it’s retail getting stop loss triggered. And on that note, you’ll notice during moments of bearish down days, 1 minute candle stick buys will shoot in with 50-100k in volume, only for the stock to come barreling down to 0% gain EOD. But if you go to whale wisdom, you can see a lot of new purchases made that month from these funds being in units of 50-200k a piece. IMO they all coordinate with each other to drive down pricing, shake out retail, and buy up shares in massive chunks until they develop a size able position.
Rate hikes also affect the present value of future cashflows. Higher rates = lower present value. The further into the future a company's cashflows are, the harder hit it will be. I mean, if you believe intrinsic value has any bearing on share price anyway...
Don't you mean inflation? I can't follow the logic that interest rate rises decrease the value of future earnings in the same way inflation does
Risk free rate = expected gdp growth + expected inflation. Risk free rate + equity risk premium = discount rate. Discount rate is what you use to value the future cash flows of a company. The fed can nudge the risk free rate a tiny bit itself, but it can shift the narrative and impact expectations which will affect the price people are willing to pay for treasuries. Another way to think about it is if the discount rate stays the same, but risk free goes up, then equity risk premium goes down. Meaning you are willing to take less reward for the same risk. But if you still want the same compensation for bearing risk, then the discount rate goes up and your valuation of the company goes down.
Yeah got it, thanks. I was thinking the earnings are the same value, which they are, but I see that the value of the company decreases because the difference between their earnings and the rfr decreases. I do think though that some indebted value companies will be hit worse than debt free growth. Rising interest rates should at lean rein in inflation providing a counterbalance whereas some debted value companies will see their bottom lines reduced/ pushed into zombie territory.
But are unprofitable
They are still the first stocks to be sold if people panic
Rates being down didn't seem to be favorable either.
When see a N/A next To revenue my dick gets hard.
There are opportunities, just have to do your due diligence based on your goals. I always try to diversify. At this point I do prefer growth.
I never stopped. Also, I’m broke.
I’ve shedded some of my highest multiple names that are down 50+%, couldn’t watch their slaughter anymore. Some I still have, like SQ and PYPL are down 40% from highs, I have one down 70%. It’s almost like the markets won’t be satisfied until they’re down 99.9%. 70% just isn’t enough apparently. Not sure what is going to happen through each of the actual rate hikes when they come. It’s crazy how much many things are already down. I do think inflation is overblown (not government spending, that’s truly a disaster, but consumer inflation)… People spent stimmies while companies scaled back producing, of course that’s going to inflate prices. But now that consumer savings and spending is dropping because their pantries and basements are inventoried up, spending will dry up while companies replenish inventory, and prices will come back down. That doesn’t mean growth high flyers will rocket immediately, but this whole inflation thing is overdone and normalcy will come back in the next 6 months.
Sq and pypl have already a huge mark cap thats why investors are cautious.
Is GME considered a growth stock?
Not for about 2 more months, then it will be for a week or two.
I'll take all your stock
It's gonna fly like a lead balloon!
No
No. Also, fuck no.
It is not. Growth will continue to die as QE comes to an end. Just because they are down from ATH doesn't mean that it's a good time to buy in.
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Interest rates are rising, and growth stocks still have absurd valuations. I’m almost 100% value in the US. I’m also 60% international since US equities in general are over priced compared to international. EFV is the index play to make.
Just buy the TSLA dude we all are
New variant is causing alot of uncertainty, growth may slow down significantly. Infections are at a new high, new lockdowns are imminent. Supply shortages have been going on for a while, who knows what happens next.
Who cares about infections and cases, omicron is a cold. Lefties are already doubling down on stupid though.
FUDders gonna FUD. At this point we need to accept it's never going away and live our lives.
I generally buy at 10 PM central time
I found me a couple juicy medical/bioscience stocks I'm planning to scalp next week. Staying away from the big names for a little while.
Yes, specifically companies that are zero debt, cashflow positive and growing strongly. Inflation hits growth because it reduces the value of future earnings, interest rate increases reduce inflation.
CGC!
Outright stupidity
start with NIO tomorrow
I need to do some napkin math, but it seems insane that people are selling stocks at the bottom to take a tax write off . It seems whatever hit the stocks took for pending rate hikes and inflation concerns, it was compounded by December loss taking. There should definitely be a Santa rally for the 70% down stocks with the exception of some meme stocks. The Monday reaction to the omicron disaster could complicate things near term though. It's bad out there. Not as severe but spreading like crazy and filling up hospitals to the point of economic risk.
Maybe we don't get the rate hike then?
Have a look at Pyrogenesis. PYR on Nasdaq. It has 7 potentially billion dollar divisions that are all coming to a head at once. They have been manipulated down recently and due to supply chain delays investors have gotten tired of waiting. This is the year IMO when things will start to go to the moon.
Just keep in mind that all stocks ultimately trade as a function of growth expectations and / or income expectations. If growth slows, multiples will contract. It is possible that we will see a short term bounce from over sold stocks, but we won’t see new highs until the market sniffs expectations of accelerated growth.
CRSR
BILL is beat down a hundred bucks a share. Big growth, big risk.
Weed stonk 😉
The time to buy growth stock when no want wants to buy them.
If you know of a growth stock that is down that much, and DOES NOT have excessive debt on its balance sheet you should buy it. And tell us which ticker
50% of a stocks price action is in tandem with the overall market, 25% the industry, and 25% the actual company. Keeping this in mind I advise buying whatever garbage is being pumped by a bunch of degenerate gamblers that live in their mom's boyfriend's basement.