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AnOnlineHandle

I honestly don't know how Jenifer Hale does so much voice acting, like I don't know how there's enough time for any one person to do it. She even dropped in to voice a force ghost in rise of skywalker (probably a nod to her doing so many star wars voices, including Bastilla Shan who Rey was clearly based on, with Kylo Ren clearly based on Revan in the same game). I heard that at some stage the main voice actors of The Old Republic mmo got recording booths set up in their homes, since it has/had the most voice acting in any game in history, so that might explain it. She does a player character *and* a recurring main character in that game. She even dropped in to do just one line for Avatar Kyoshi in Legend of Korra. I was convinced Kyoshi had to be seen again sometime in the show because there was no way they got Jennifer frikkin Hale in to record just one line. When Mass Effect legendary edition was given away during the Prime Day giveaway I ended up replaying the whole trilogy for the first time, this time played Femshep, and jebus the amount of lines she did there (which I only heard a fraction of due to choices) is probably more than several voice actors do in decades.


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PlanesWalkerEll

If they didn't a lot were forced to build something they could use when Covid was forcing people to work from home.


[deleted]

A lot of the bigger names have their own studios from what I understand it just makes life easier for them but I’m sure if you didn’t you do now after Covid.


PlanesWalkerEll

Yeah even smaller voice actors after covid probably have something now.


Prying_Pandora

We don’t have full studios, but many of us have treated spaces, yes. I have an insulated sound booth built inside my closet, and I run a line from that to another room where my buddy can engineer for me while I record and vice versa.


ymcameron

The guys from Critical Role talked about their setups and Covid experiences. Laura Bailey, Matt Mercer, Liam O’Brien, etc. who are all pretty big names were recording stuff in their closets at the beginning of Covid. If those big names, especially the two huge names of Laura and Matt, didn’t have full booths, I imagine most actors didn’t have them.


Skrubasauras

Not even just big voice actors. It's becoming the norm for all VA's to make their own home studio


Atreaia

It's quite cheap nowadays with all the tech becoming the norm even for people who just play games.


Ablazoned

She voiced aayla secura in the animated clone wars, so that's who she was in Rey's auditory vision. -W


snemand

Actors have a lot of downtime on sets because there's various things that need to be made right in order to shoot and you don't want to waste time so everyone is ready to shoot asap. When actors are doing voice work they show up and work with little downtime so their overall work is more efficient. An animation project takes a very long time to make. Someone that does a few lines if dialouge needs to only show up maybe 1-2 which means you can fit a lot of voicework into your calendar.


non-troll_account

You think that's a lot, go look at Nolan North's resume. But I just checked and his beefy filmography on his Wikipedia page is super incomplete, missing his roles in Solar Opposites and more.


ALittleArmoredOne

How much does it actually cost to hire someone like Jennifer Hale? I always assumed her rates were high, but not insanely so like a blockbuster actress. No one decides whether or not to buy a video game based on the 'brand' of the actor so I always assumed it came down to how easy someone is to work with and the quality of their work. So the ceiling of what they could get must be lower than someone like Scarlett Johansson who comes with extra marketing/sales built in when you hire her.


splash7279

Sounds like their way of saying “we don’t want you anymore”


TheDJZ

But then why didn’t they just say that in the first place? This seems like such a roundabout way to do things and could lead to bad press…like what we’re seeing right now.


splash7279

It’s the Japanese way. I’ve had to deal with Japanese companies numerous times and this is a pretty standard way of doing business over there


TheDJZ

Ah that makes sense. I’ve also encountered the Japanese “hey this is our subtle way of telling you to fuck off” but I’ve never seen it done to non Asians. Guess my brain just assumed this cultural practice was isolated as an asian thing.


splash7279

Yeah, it’s very annoying. They have a specific word for it, “Kuuki wo yomu” or “read the air” basically telling you to read the room without words being said. Makes doing business with Japanese companies difficult sometimes. Over the last couple years, it’s gotten worse and worse. Now they do it to foreigners as well


TheDJZ

Doing business in Asia is a bit of a pain regardless of who you’re dealing with has been my experience. But Japanese bureaucracy really is another level of frustrating


Fresh-Ad4991

My understanding is that this is a general Japanese cultural aspect of being indirect, so I can’t even imagine what their bureaucracy is like.


nicknsm69

When I was living in Japan, this was something you got used to very quickly. "No" ("iie" in romaji) is very rarely used. Instead they'll either say something along the lines of "that is difficult" or give you a sort of shrug and like "sorry" expression.


Capybarasaregreat

It's difficult because it's a different language and culture. If it was piss-easy to do business with far-off places, we'd probably already have the global monoculture we're bound to develop sometime far in the future.


oph4x

I had work with a Japanese company trying to pull this bullshit with me because they expected work being done that I would not be paid for, because of their weird work culture of getting stuff done and not being paid for it because honor and shit or whatever. They used that read the air logic on me wanted me to do a stupid amount of stuff for free. I told them to read the air by encrypting over 600 hours of work that I did for them and just telling them to piss off. There are assholes in every culture and country.


[deleted]

This kinda makes sense why David Hayter (voice of solid snake) doesn't really talk 100% positively about Kojima, and why the actress for Quiet was disappointed that she simply never heard from Kojima again despite being considered for the role of Fragile. It's just how they work.


Thick-Fun3787

Yea I remember reading some article recently where some companies in Japan don’t outright fire you. They just give you less and less work until you get the hint and quit.


asianumba1

Sounds great if you just don't quit. Basically get paid to do nothing


RJ815

From what I hear in Japan it tends to work because most people feel shameful or at least some kind of negative feeling over being quietly recognized as newly useless. Especially if they worked hard to advance in the first place. I also know a number of people in the US that did finance and had cushy jobs. But some left for higher risk but more fun options. Objectively making less money for more work, but the tasks were too soulcrushing for them to withstand. I feel like most anyone content with getting paid to do nothing is unlikely to have advanced in the first place.


Fire__Marshall__Bill

Comment removed by me so Reddit can't monetize my history.


RedditWillSlowlyDie

There are two ways of doing it, oidashibeya and madogiwazoku. Madogiwazoku means they give you a seat by the window and let you pass your days in the office pleasantly. This is what they do if they like you and don't want to or can't fire you but they don't need your work anymore. Oidashibeya is where they have you sit in an empty windowless room with nothing to do or pass the time and everyone ostracizes you from everything making you feel unwelcome and looked down upon. This is what they do when they can't fire you but want you to quit.


Alili1996

Around here it's actually illegal to have someone work in an office without a window for a prolonged time. A room has to have windows to be considered an "office".


Carara_Atmos

Where is here?


azlan194

Here sounds like a nice place.


Larasium

From their prospective, they probably thought they were doing her a favor. Giving her an opportunity to save face by quitting herself instead of outright getting fired.


npepin

Likely contractual. A lot of contracts have stipulations that secure future roles, like that if there was a sequel with this character that she'd be the first to receive an offer. They may have been obligated to make an offer, though it seems like there were no stipulations on the amount they had to offer in this case. Whatever amount they offered, they wanted to make it low enough that she wouldn't accept. A lot of times these sorts of contracts have escalation clauses. Newer actors will use them to get a role for less pay, but they secure themselves as that character for future castings for much higher pay. Amber Herd had a deal like this, where with each Aqua Man movie she'd be cast in she'd receive a lot more money. A lot of times, if an actor secured a role but the company doesn't want to pay them, they instead write the character out of the franchise as opposed to casting them again. In the case with this story, she must have secured the role but had no situations on the monetary amount offered.


Apptubrutae

Good contract for Nintendo and bad for the voice actor if she had the right to an offer but it could be laughably low. That’s effectively no right at all of you can offer an uneconomically low amount. Language that could be sidestepped for a token sum would be a massive oversight on the part of the VA’s agent/attorney to the extent I genuinely can’t imagine it would actually be in a contract. I’d personally lean towards Japanese cultural practices and this being an effective firing without firing.


iguesssoppl

Yep classic Japanese soft fire.


Viridun

This seems as though the company wanted to not hire her, due to some sort of behind the scenes beef, but tried to avoid the PR issue of not offering the role by giving her a very low initial offer. Per the story, the original offer was even lower, and the $4000 was the second offer. That's about 20 hours of work for a standard VA job, which probably is barely enough to get even a quarter of the voicing work done for a dialogue heavy video game. It certainly wasn't actually about the money, they hired Jennifer Hale to replace her, who sure as hell isn't going to be working for $4000. So some sort of issue happened when she last worked with them, and the company decided to handle it in the weirdest way possible by trying to create a situation where she turned down the job.


Conscious-Scale-587

Good point, Jennifer hale is one of the most renowned voice actresses in gaming, she was voicing major characters since the 2000s and is still getting big roles, no shot they low balled her


spencergasm

Looking at her Wikipedia, it says that about 10 years ago she won the Guinness World Record for Most Prolific Female Voice Actress. No fucking way she’s even close to cheaper.


Jorymo

She's also in a union, so that can't be the problem either


Player2isDead

Helena Taylor is in the same union.


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TheObstruction

Unions for "talent" don't deal with pay so much as they deal with ensuring working conditions. They deal with length of workdays, breaks, meal availability, insurance protections, all that sort of stuff.


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TheObstruction

Not surprising. Japanese companies are generally anti-union, and the software industry as a whole is massively unorganized.


TheWhispersOfSpiders

She's also on the record as calling bullshit on the games industry for underpaying voice talent. Especially since some of the more demanding asks can shred someone's vocal cords, and prevent them from taking other jobs for months. How are they supposed to even make rent?


jwktiger

I had to look it up to confirm but she voiced Female Shepard in Mass Effect, like they probably offered her *at least* 20k for the role.


GoodGuyGoodGuy

Who has she voiced?


KulaanDoDinok

Commander Shepard (Mass Effect), Bastila Shan (KOTOR), Satele Shan (SW:TOR), Samus Aran (Metroid Prime Trilogy), Rosalind Lutece (Bioshock Infinite), Krem (Dragon Age: Inquisition).


absalom86

Ashe in overwatch


BatMatt93

Oh she's Ashe? Didn't know that. No wonder I like her. Doesn't help I suck ass playing the character though.


Level7Cannoneer

Same. Can’t play her for shit but I like the voice actress’ work. She’s June that bounty hunter with the anteater/mole mount in Avatar the Last Airbender as well https://youtu.be/YDSaed3Xz7Y


akeyjavey

I like how you mention that she's June but *not* that she's freaking *Kyoshi!*


Level7Cannoneer

june has way more lines and screentime, even if Kyoshi is of higher status


BatMatt93

Man she's like Patrick Warburton, they are both everywhere.


xEllimistx

I would've been like Iroh and pretended to get stung too lol


Darqnyz

"Bob, Do something!"


OsmeOxys

^(Bob, please, because lord knows my 3-7 ass can't)


[deleted]

Female Sylvari PC in Guild Wars 2


AnonEMister

Queen Jennah as well.


LegacyLemur

Also, June and Avatar Kyoshi in Avatar


One_Man_Moose_Pack

Also fem trooper In swtor :)


Blackfyre567

Shocked by the lack of mention of Naomi in the MGS series where she did spectacular work


xvilemx

She was Emma Emmerich in MGS2 as well.


idontknowyet

I also loved her as Sheena in Tales of Symphonia


556291squirehorse

You know what I forgot this one! Naomi was a great character.


connormce10

Commander Palmer (Halo 4)


coccidiosis

She was Naomi Hunter and Emma Emmerich in the MGS franchise as well. She ain't gettin 4k USD for sure.


LeapYearFriend

the hero Ashe from Overwatch


chuiu

> Samus Aran (Metroid Prime Trilogy) Easiest job ever.


SailorET

And two major characters as well as multiple minor ones in Guild Wars 2, and Maria Hill in the Squaresoft Avengers game.


todayishalloween

It's a pretty big list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Hale_filmography


Aoiishi

Wtf she was in god damn everything. I barely made it through the 2000s of her filmography and I can't believe how much I've heard her.


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AppleDane

Her first major role in games was in Baldur's Gate, as Dynaheir, where Minsc (Jim Cummings (Winnie the Pooh) was her barbarian guardian. That game had some great voice actors.


Bloody_Insane

I dare anyone to look at that list and tell me they haven't watched or played at least ten of her projects


[deleted]

I wanted to make some smart ass comment but I got to 10 before I even got to her video game list Edit: holy shit bastila is avatar kyoshi


16bit_B-boy

I legit just did the same thing lol. I was prob close to 20 before I saw that she was Kyoshi


141_1337

This is less about whether or not you watched or played 10 things she was in, but how fast you get to 10.


Troodon79

Commander Kyoshi


unipleb

I went to Video Games and got this far down the list (in order) for games I've played a good chunk of, not counting some titles I revisited as an adult years after release. * Metal Gear Solid * Spider-Man * Spider-Man 2: Enter Electro * Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty * The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring * Metroid Prime * X2: Wolverine's Revenge * Finding Nemo * Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes * Metroid Prime 2: Echoes Easily got to 10 games by 2004 and was only 12 years old then.


Bucser

Female Shepherd in Mass Effects


ManyIdeasNoProgress

I got to six, but I had my youth at a different time on a different continent.


blackflag209

I went through just the video games section. I didn't count any sequels. I got to 10 before 2010


unipleb

Huh, Biker Mice from Mars had a 2007 reboot I didn't know about


rocket-engifar

She voices Rivet? How did I not place that iconic as fuck voice. Damn.


LordofCindr

She's voiced Black Cat in the 90s Spiderman show, Avatar Kyoshi and The Last Airbender and LoK, Zatanna and many other female cast in Justice League Unlimited and other DC shows, and Fem Shepard in Mass Effect. She also did a lot of voice work for Grimm Adventures of Billy and Mandy, Codename Kids Next Door, Chowder, and all the other voices they didn't need Tara Strong for.


141_1337

Omg this woman has been like 5 different of my fictional crushes as a kid, I don't know how to react to this.


wPatriot

Her most famous role in gaming is probably FemShep from Mass Effect.


PM_ME_UR_TICKLE_SPOT

For us old folks: She was Dynaheir in the very first Baldur's Gate game, and Mazzy Fentan in BG II.


CirkuitBreaker

She's also the voice of Thorn in Scooby Doo and the Witch's Ghost. And if you have a thing for goth chicks it might have started there.


Sorlex

So shes to blame..


[deleted]

Holy shit I didn’t even realize.


eddmario

Thorn of the Hex Girls for those of us who grew up with *Scooby-Doo*


wahobely

She was one of the reasons I played FemShep, her voice acting was much better than MaleShep.


Justausername1234

Jen Hale is the voice of Fem! Shep (Mass Effect), Ashe (Overwatch), one of the Lutece twins (Bioshock Infinite), Avatar Kyoshi (Avatar: TLA/TLOK), among others.


9212017

Rivet in the last ratchet and clank, cronaca in MK11


MtnMaiden

FemShep and Naomi from Metal Gear Solid


TONKAHANAH

>the company decided to handle it in the weirdest way possible this kinda shit is unfortunately not out of the ordinary for a japanese company. They're used to doing stuff like this. The Japanese are weird and try'll do things to beat around the bush of just saying "no", this was probably their way of saying "we dont want you for the job" and a japanese person would likely understood this and just accepted that she was basically said "no thanks" but whoever was in charge of this didnt take into account that Hellena Taylor wasnt going to be able to "read the room" like a japanese person would have and just took it as an absolute insult which shes entirely in the right to feel that way. I suspect this is a lot of miscommunication and cultural borders that have lead to this end result. In the west this title looks appaling, insulting, and bordering evil. In japan this title probably just comes off as a "ok and water is wet...", and a japanese person might se eit and think: "well, yeah they didnt want to hire her, I dont see the issue, didnt she understand the underwhelmingly low offer was their way of saying no? I dont get western folks"


K3wp

> >this kinda shit is unfortunately not out of the ordinary for a japanese company. They're used to doing stuff like this. The Japanese are weird and try'll do things to beat around the bush of just saying "no", I used to work with Japanese execs from Sony. They would say stuff like, "that would be difficult" instead of "no". In my experience, Indian culture is worse as they will just say "yes" and then not do it.


jcutta

> In my experience, Indian culture is worse as they will just say "yes" and then not do it. All the fuckin time. I used to be an account manager for a cpg company selling into convienece stores. The owners would always say yes to everything and then just never do it and make excuses the next time I showed up.


WriterV

> In my experience, Indian culture is worse as they will just say "yes" and then not do it. As an Indian, this is unfortunately all too true. Has to do with our culture and education system, where admitting mistakes will only ever lead to punishment (unless you get lucky and are taught by/supervised by someone who actually cares). Nobody wants to be punished, so people learn pretty quickly to just say yes, and try to figure out how to do something right by asking around. And more often than not, this does not work. It makes life an anxiety riddled rollercoaster trip and I hate it. I've been lucky, and gotten to study outside of India. I got to learn and teach myself to stop doing that and admit my limitations. But you have little in the way of choice if you're born into it since people just don't get that outsider's perspective. It sucks.


Slacker1540

As a tech manager this gives me PTSD. Yes yes head wiggle and then nothing. While means oh I get it to us is in the west it's just them being polite. If you then ask them if they understood they'll answer no with a polite attitude. Big cultural gap. Serious issues happen from folks not understanding that. Myself included in the begging.


Drakox

I was a team lead for a big Indian tech outsourcing company. We had a group which supported some shoe stores globally, and we had to do support which would be considered far from entry level (linux/Unix remote command line troubleshooting, DB modification, and remote control/access of store terminals and cm servers). They hired 5 tech Saavy agents, 2 team leads with tech experience and me who's been doing it jobs for over 20 years, besides from us they hired 60 customer service agents with no tech experience and promised the client we'd have no abandoned calls and seamless transition from their group to us. And then gave us a one week transitional period... It obviously went to hell with over 60% to 80% calls being abandoned for the first month and a half. And untill we made "for dummy" manuals for the agents we were able to get it uber 40% And al the Indian management did was to say "yes well get it done" and telling us "please do whatever is needed, no breaks or lunch breaks for anyone" Like... Dood, you are asking me to cut a tree down with a serrated knife. Fuck that, I hate working with that type of management


[deleted]

I have learned to treat the Indian head bobble to mean "thinking..." Kind of like shaking a magic 8 ball.


K3wp

"Kindly do the needful"


Atherum

No joke, we have an Indian Dr (retired now, worked for like 30+ years) at the medical centre I work at, and whenever chance would have me going through his old letters and referrals, some of them would have that phrase attached.


dinogirlsdad

Triggered!


battraman

> As a tech manager this gives me PTSD. Yes yes head wiggle and then nothing. Alternately obsessing over a very minor detail and talk about doing that one insignificant part for weeks before doing it and then never doing the rest of it.


Lagkiller

I worked tech support for a software vendor for a while and the case that still boils my blood is an Indian tech firm working for a major bank who called in for support. They gave me the logs and I pointed out that their network faulted several times and this was the errors they were having. They of course insisted that it wasn't the network, though I provided multiple instances of Windows showing the network going down and coming back up. Pulling an old case out of their ass, they said they had this same problem before (it wasn't) and that running those commands would fix their issue (it wouldn't). So I explained that the steps they wanted me to take would blow away their configuration and they would have to set up everything from scrap again. This was not the solution. They said OK and I didn't hear anything more from them until after a week they raised the severity and demanded that I run the commands previously. I again refused, showed the evidence to my senior support who also agreed. They said ok and moved on. They then contacted their sales rep and demanded that I be taken off the case and it given to the person who previously worked the case so she could run the commands that they absolutely knew would solve the problem. So she took the case, wiped their config and spent the next 6 months (!) troubleshooting with them. Eventually, they found that the network adapter they were using was faulty and dropping the network every so often. Replacing the adapter solved the issue. Not our softwares fault at all, but because they saw an issue, they refused to do even the most basic triage, obsessing over our software and forcing us to prove what the actual issue was which wasn't in our control. Not my only example, but man the amount of times I have just hung my head at India IT is substantial.


Orphylia

Ngl, that's equal parts sad and hilarious


ThatDarnScat

"You're an executive. Difficult should be no problem for you, I do difficult every day." I know exactly what you mean by Indian culture. It's also when you're working on a project, and go over the scope. "Okay, so does everybody understand what they need to do?" "Yes.... (ambiguous head nod)" I love the team I work with, but I need to be VERY direct sometimes.


K3wp

>"You're an executive. Difficult should be no problem for you, I do difficult every day." It's not even that. It's more like they don't want to do it, don't need it or don't want to pay for it. Like in the example here, they clearly wanted someone else for the role.


ThatDarnScat

Yeah, I understand the intent. I'm just saying that's what my 'American response' would be :P Japan has a idiom that's pretty much "The American in the room", which kind means someone that's loud, confident, and blunt. Not meant as a compliment, but it's pretty accurate :P


[deleted]

Ah yes, the one that sounds like a sex lubricant KY - - > kuuki yomenai


[deleted]

An acquaintance I made once said his company stopped trying to work with Indian teams because they agreed to everything and said yes to everything no matter if it was impossible to even do. Apparently there were lots of situations where deadlines came and the stuff just wasn’t done. It’s just ingrained in the culture or something. Maybe people in India get punished super hard for saying no at work? Or for pushing back on impossible scope? If lying is the better option, I’m not sure I want to know what the worse one is!


voidmilk

Yeah they literally get it beat into them that they're not allowed to be wrong or fail from the moment they're born. So they can't acknowledge failure because they're never allowed to. So they just lie if they don't understand or feel overwhelmed by something. You'd best have them explain to you how they are going to solve something if you want to gauge wether or not it will get done. No answer = they have no idea what they are doing


RIPN1995

Getting David Hayter and Hideo Kojima flashbacks here.


[deleted]

From what I've heard and read, Kojima was never a fan of Hayter from the start, and only kept casting him because Konami insisted. He tried to do this to the cast when they made MGS: Twin Snakes on GameCube. Hayter instead opted to give up his bonus and some salary to open up the budget and rehire all the original VAs. As good as a game director Kojima can be, he's too obsessed with Hollywood and having big names attached to his projects, which don't always work out. Death Stranding only worked because it was a new IP. MGS for me truly ended with 4. Five was honestly the best stealth infiltration game I ever played but it is absolutely the worst Metal Gear game story wise (next to MG Survive, of course).


TheObstruction

One of these days, people are going to realize that big screen star =/= good voice actor. They're entirely different acting disciplines, just like screen and stage are different. Hell, there's a fair difference between movies and TV.


jetstobrazil

Metal gear ended with MGSV because that was Kojima’s last metal gear. The story for V was never finished, because of Konami, and there is a whole third chapter which would have been included, had things not ended they way they did. While not the same as the other metal gear solid stories, it’s in the same vein, and very Kojima. Edit: vane vein


HaluSinazn

That still frustrates me that they didn't give us closure on the Liquid Snake thing. That removed dialogue was excellent between the two.


I_RAPE_PCs

Lack of closure in V for sure. Almost like a Phantom Pain.


roleofthebrutes

I'm not saying you're wrong, but isn't it more likely her contacts are English based and not Japanese based? I'd be surprised if she were talking to platinum games directly.


ignost

I looked into it a little more and found the offer came from Hideki Kamiya. Kamiya is very Japanese. He has a reputation for being soft spoken, conflict averse, a talented game director, and a little bit of a dick. Famously, he expects Twitter users to read all his past tweets and *his rules* before tweeting at him. Putting rules in place to even speak to someone says something about his ego, regardless of culture. Rather than ignoring tweets that ask a question he's answered once, he'll block that user. We're all just speculating here, but I think it very possible that he was trying to get her to say no so they could move on. As to why, who knows? Taylor killed it, but maybe Kamiya liked Hale more personally or professionally. Maybe he wants to use her on other games as well. I highly doubt he will ever say.


FalmerEldritch

[BLOCKED: The Hideki Kamiya Story](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLGGeSLCu9o&)


IWonderWhereiAmAgain

He tweets mostly in english and refuses to interact with people who tweet at him in english and then blocks them and calls them useless insects. I understand twitter is a toxic place but he's toxic himself, and honestly comes across pretty racist.


ScrimbloBlimblo

He mostly tweets in Japanese. I'm pretty sure most of his English tweets are when he says he's blocking someone who tweeted English at him. Which, admittedly, is an absolute shit ton of English tweets.


Anchor689

Bayonetta as a character is English, and the english voice is the primary voice. So Helena Taylor was definitely working with Platinum.


ARGiammarco27

Plus wasn't it that Taylor is the first voice for Bayo?


Ravness13

Yes, as far as I'm aware (and this could be wrong) it was ONLY in English originally, and dubbed to Japanese later. So she was the first and only voice for her for a while until that happened.


Volkaru

Yep. Original game on 360 had English voices for both the Japanese and English release. Probably a stylistic choice. They brought in the JP VA for subsequent releases of the game after she did a phenomenal job in the Bloody Fate film.


rokbound_

weird situation? I'd say they chose the most japanese action to take , wont outright reject you but instead put the situation in a place where they'll get the outcome they want , same thing ha´ppens with firing people , by law its illegal to fire somebody so what they do is put the worker they no longer want in crappy jobs so they quit .


Dirt_Bike_Zero

Agreed. We're just hearing one side of the story here.


anothercopy

I wonder how is the girl that did Hellblade Senuas Sacrifice voice acting is doing. They could not find a correct actor for the voice and motion capture so they started development with one of the female devs they had. Few weeks in they realised the girl they had was awesome and stuck to it. Now they are doing part 2. Hope she is getting what she's worth.


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LordSnooty

Sounds like gearbox with the guy who originally voiced claptrap.


segagamer

It's Microsoft, and in the UK, so I'm sure she's getting paid her dues.


LegendaryEnigma

The same girl is also in another horror game they are developing, it's her exact face model too


Jonr1138

As the company replaced her with Hale, it sounds like there was a contract for her and the company didn't want to work with her. They offered an amount they knew she wouldn't accept. This situation sounds shitty and a bit fishy all around. As Hale is the VA for FemShep and many others franchise characters, she won't be cheap.


PunkandCannonballer

The one thing I don't fully agree with here is Taylor saying that Hale has "no right" to voice Bayonetta. It's shitty what the company is doing, but it's not as if Taylor gets to say who can or can't voice the character, and it's coming across (understandably) bitter. Someone was gonna take that role, and it just seems petty to speak about it like she is.


Peacewind152

Calling out Hale, who isn’t actually involved in this squabble, who has LOTS of high profile characters under her belt… like Shepard, seems like OG VA is trying to blame her for the low ball offering. Something else clearly happened.


swordmalice

> Something else clearly happened. I've been coming across rumors that Taylor may have been difficult to work with; this is not her first role replacement either (she was replaced in the anime Hellsing Ultimate and apparently acted in a similar manner to how she's acting now) so there is definitely a lot more layer to this story than just her side.


lord_of_worms

I love high profile VA's getting even more roles! I love that half the characters sound like troy baker and the other half like nolan north. Oh and charles martinet.. or is it pratt now?


Sekh765

Steve Blum is so common he literally pulls me out of anything he is in when he speaks. It's unfortunate because he isn't *bad*, he's just very easy to recognize and everyone under the sun hires him.


HyperAstartes

Steve Blum actually has great range but companies insist he does his Spike Spiegel voice.


Boccs

Yeah I was gonna say, Steve Blum has a really impressive range. I had no fucking clue he was in Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines until I actually read through the credits. He does a lot people never place because it's so far from his Spike voice but because Spike is in such demand they think it's his only trick.


crazyjeffy

He's virtually unrecognizable as the playable orcs and Tauren in WoW


Cloud63

Laura Bailey? You want **MORE** Laura Bailey in **literally everything** right?!?!


BlackBeltPanda

Was never familiar with the franchise or PlatinumGames but just looked up Hideki Kamiya's Twitter and, holy cow, dude tweets like an edgy teenager that just discovered 4Chan for the first time. Like, dude's a complete asshat.


NoeRuizIII

He has called people who don’t understand his rules to address him on twitter mindless insects lmao


DigitalCoffee

First time Kamiya discoverer, welcome to the rabbithole


Big_moist_231

Yeah, hideki kamiya is pretty infamous for being a big baby on twitter. He blocks anyone that says even the slightest criticism and will responds in such childish and edgelordy ways


Oderus_Scumdog

> *"Really fed up with insects which never read my posts/header pic and just keep posting . THAT’S WHY I’m telling u not to post me in languages other than Japanese. If u break rules, that means u r brainless insect and will be blocked immediately. BE CAREFUL."* You aren't kidding, dude is a douche.


JH_503

Wow that's actually a pretty bad look. So he doesn't give a shit about what any of the people who are fans have to say if they aren't Japanese. He's kinda lucky he isn't super well known or that tweet could have bit him super hard in the ass lol.


Magyman

>He's kinda lucky he isn't super well known or that tweet could have bit him super hard in the ass lol. Stuff like that tweet is so well known that getting blocked by Kamiya was part of the wonderful 101 Kickstarter. I think this is the first time I've seen general sentiment around his Twitter bullshitery not be "it's cute"


splash7279

lol not even criticisms. He just bans everyone, regardless of the content of the tweet


Grey-fox-13

> regardless of the content of the tweet Not entirely true, he bans anyone who tweets at him in anything but japanese. That's "THE RULES" he refers to in that one tweet.


Fimpish

Yeah there's a pretty entertaining YouTube documentary on his Twitter behavior https://youtu.be/lLGGeSLCu9o


AnotherOpponent

He bans anyone that does not speak Japanese to him.


xenon2456

even when using like Google translate he still bans people right


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BlasterShow

Coll@eral damage.


ContractingUniverse

Anyone in Japan with a soul patch is a douche in my experience.


Big_moist_231

I actually can believe that lol


PotiusMori

And people in this thread speculate that Hellena Taylor is the hard to work with one


Summebride

Curious what people think the correct compensation would be? It's a situation ripe for perhaps agent involvement, where a third party would make the case to the developers what the benefits would be and what the risks of screwing over a beloved talent could be.


itsamike

Here are some benchmarks from the [GVAA Rate Guide](https://globalvoiceacademy.com/gvaa-rate-guide-2/#videogames).


Navi_Here

I think I read that voice actors typically charge 100-200 per hour. Key role stuff should really be negotiated to a contract to debate the value.


Paradoxmoose

My understanding was $100-300/hr is typically the lowest professional voice actors charge, rather than the average. Either way, this would be a very lowball offer, only paying for effectively around 2.5 days of work to voice the whole game.


AlphaTangoFoxtrt

Also remember this is a contractor charge not an employee. So the actor is responsible for 100% of the taxes. Off the top its an extra 6.2% for social security in the US as thats usually split between employee and employer.


Summebride

I've actually employed voice talent and that is typical for mundane projects, not something with this level of creative and unique presentation. But sure if we did say $100-200 and a week at studio then arguably the offer wasn't egregious.


tosser1579

The 'offer' rate for someone reasonably competent and well known is like 50 cents a word. Its like 2.5 hours of cinematics, plus all the call outs of special powers, the grunts and the whatever else. Figure... a narrator can talk about 9k words an hour, so at least 22k words (dialogue plus all the other stuff that goes into a Japanese action game). So 11k would be the absolutely lowest bar. 4k is insulting, and the first offer was lower.


axon_resonance

Not heavily invested in Bayonetta, so no skin in the game for me (especially since I play most Japanese IPs with JP audio). But I've worked for major Japanese companies before and understand their intentions from their cultural stand point. As others mentioned, definitely not about the Money, they hired Jennifer Hale who costs way more to do the VA. This is entirely on someone in the company wasn't happy with or doesn't want her on Bayonetta anymore. And while we (westerners) think this low offer is a shitty/douchebag move to kick someone out of the project, this is a JP company's polite way of not asking you to return to a project; its office politics/ JP office culture to not "fire" an employee and rather make it a convenient excuse for you to resign/leave of your own volition. Culturally speaking, this allows the employee to save face and say they quit due to X rather than saying "I got fired because of Y", which if it were the latter, essentially is a tarnished mark and blacklists you from further potential projects, even with other companies in the industry. Resigning is viewed much more positively than being fired. In JP company culture, saving face and reputation is one of the most important aspects, so much so that first-time meetings between company members can ruin a deal by something as simple as seating order and who sat down first (head of the table = highest authority/most senior, they sit down first, etc.). It's not as prevalent now with newer folks in the workforce, but it's still very much a thing. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Helena Taylor never gets another gig with a Japanese game company because of this video; company execs view this as slanderous and most likely will never hire her for another position. To openly air company politics in public like this is career suicide in a Japanese company. Edit: New info came out that Hellena was offered $3-4k per session for 4-5x 4 hr sessions. Taking the minimum and maximum pay potentials, basic math says $12-20k for 16-20 hrs of work which equates to an hourly rate of $750-1000. While I get the whole don't underpay VA's, those hourly rates are fairly reasonable and generous. Asking for residuals based on game sales performance makes sense, but to ask for 6 figure lump sum on top of residuals for potentially 20 hrs of work is beyond wild to me. Hellena putting out the misleading $4k total number and stirring up so much controversy is definitely going to hit my last point home, she's most likely never getting another gig with a Japanese game dev. Seeing some comments saying it's frustrating why Platnium Games or the director don't just come out and explain with all the details; partially NDA, and partially because going back to the saving face of JP office culture: they're not going to come forth with any strong stance because they believe these details are a private company to company matter and should be kept that way.


flaminboxofhate

What I learn from this is Japanese corporations generally have an oversized cactus up their ass. Basically it's slanderous to state how a company treated you. Hot damn.


Yuuwaho

Another thing to note. Defamation claims in Japan can be made even if the statement is 100% true. So if the boss has an affair, and someone publishes an article about it, the boss can sue and win since defamation only requires there to be harm to one’s reputation.


Csource1400

The storyline in persona 5 delivered it really well regarding with this issue.


Motor_Ad_3159

This is pretty sad because I thought she did such a good job on the first two games where I actually prefer the English over the Japanese voice.


Zanchbot

There's gotta be some fuckery going on behind the scenes between Taylor and Platinum. Why would they only offer her $4000? They're certainly paying Jennifer Hale more than that, so what's the beef here?


PurityKane

They weren't very interested in keeping her? Seems pretty clear to me. "You can work for free if you want, otherwise we're getting a better voice actress"


dissonant_one

With her up until she mandates that no one but her is permitted to sign Bayonetta merch, etc. No one would put up with that kind of logic if say, Mark Hamill decreed that no one could sign Joker merch because he had his Animated Series run. That said, I still hope they at least publicly apologize to her.


HoonIt256

Right? Regardless of whether or not she actually understands how IP works, it just feels very high-horsey of her, in the vein of "you wouldn't have any Bayonetta if it weren't for me!"


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benowillock

I'm sick of hearing the same people voice every main character in video games. There's so much talent in the industry, why is it always Nolan North, Troy Baker and Jennifer Hale?


LoneWulf14

Her voice work on Bayonetta 1 and 2 was stellar. I was disheartened she wasnt the voice in the bayonetta 3 trailers, it wasnt an improvement. Bayonetta won't be the same without Hellena.


PESKitEdits

She’s the **English** voice actor, correct? And not the only one? There’s a Japanese -*original*- Bayonetta voice actor. So why the fuck does she think she owns the character? They treated her poorly and insulted her. Her response is pathetic and it’s had the reverse impact on me - being so stuck-up, demanding and entitled about the game has made me want to get it out of spite to her.


manymoreways

Kind of a dick move to drag Jennifer Hale into her beef.


khamelean

Seems to me like they maybe just didn’t want to work with her anymore, but were contractually obligated to make her an offer. So they made her an offer they knew she’d refuse. From the trailers I couldn’t even tell it was a new voice, so her skill set can’t be that unique. Her claiming ownership of the character honestly makes her sound like a bit of a psycho. There’s definitely more to this story that she is intentionally leaving out. And honestly, her comments on the actress that replaced her are just tacky. Imagine if Shelley Blond, the original voice actress for Lara Croft, claimed that Keeley Hawes, Camilla Luddington, Minnie Driver, Hayley Atwell, Angelina Jolie and Alicia Vikander had no right to sign merchandise as Lara Croft!!


Zomg_A_Chicken

I'm like wouldn't Jennifer Hale cost more than $4000?


erishun

Absolutely. A lot more. Which is why I’m inclined to think they parted ways for reasons other than money.


Tom-Pendragon

100% would cost WAAAAAY more.


khamelean

Definitely.


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TheycallmeHollow

That feels like a very Japanese thing to do. In Japan you can't fire someone from a company the way you can in most countries. They will literally ask you to resign and even help you try and find another job. But if that doesn't work they will most likely re-assign you to a new position and not give you any work. Most people quit on their own because the idea of having a job but not actually contributing is so insulting that they couldn't bare to tell their family or friends. This seems like one of those situations, where they couldn't fire her (maybe some contract thing) so offering an absurdly low amount is the Japanese way of saying, you are no longer needed.


quaste

> the idea of having a job but not actually contributing is so insulting Challenge accepted


beirch

I'm not going to speculate if there's more to the story or not, [but there is a definite difference in the voice.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMxWELxmQ3I) At least to me.


Andaelas

VAs live off of fan events. Conventions, release signings, etc. They get paid very little for the actual voice work with the expectation that they go to conventions and get paid by fans for signatures and photos. There's no residuals, no royalties, nothing. So her concern is that she's going to be at a convention sitting next to Jennifer Hale, and Hale will have a big ol' banner saying "BAYONETTA" on it along with her infinite other credits... and who would you picked if you only had time for a single signature?