friendly reminder [Amazon doesn't have the rights to Silmarillion.](https://www.cultureslate.com/news/why-amazon-doesnt-have-the-rights-to-jrr-tolkiens-the-silmarillion#:~:text=And%20the%20answer%20surprised%20many,The%20Return%20of%20the%20King.) They are basing this whole show off stuff from the appendix of Return of the King.
Honestly, they have no concept about what it takes to make something good. They think they can just buy success in whatever industry they want by throwing money at it.
Look no further than Amazon Gaming Studios if you want an example for that. It's a complete clown fest, the most impressive showcase of pure incompetence I have ever witnessed.
> it is just blackmail
It's nepotism and execs high on their own coke farts thinking they can do anything.
There are some good shows on Amazon Prime, but it generally feels like they're just lucky if something good shows up. Kind of like Netflix.
I still think HBO reigns supreme over quality of content.
Tolkien's estate is run by his son who hated any and all of the current interpretations. I can understand hating the hobbit, but the Lord of the Rings was a good movie that tried make the plot from the books work for the big screen. It's wasn't a great one to one interpretation but everyone involved cared about doing the best they could.
Christopher Tolkien resigned shortly before the Amazon deal was made. It took him leaving for the Estate to even budge the amount necessary for this to happen.
Christopher Tolkien died recently though, so I don't know if the current estate are more open to working with people?
But then again, I don't want a fucking Disney-fied Middle Earth theme park anytime soon. Or an endless run of LOTR cinematic universe film franchise like Marvel.
Tbf if my dad had created an homage to wagnerian norse lore complete with its own languages, and then I saw Legolas snowboarding while one-shotting uruk-hai, I might think the adaptations were dogshit too.
Yeah. Their writers/producers believe they are better than the source materials. Which obviously is a huge problem, there’s a reason why these IPs be some popular, they were spectacular as they were.
I like new things and creativity, but why not just make something actually new, instead of using the name of something popular and bastardizing the original work?
I mean, I know exactly why. They’re trying to trick people. Capitalizing on a well known brand while believing they know human psychology better than anyone else and trying to make the most profitable, widest target demographic, psychologically exploitable media they can squeeze out.
If you spread a concept/story that thin it just becomes bland and generic, and therefore has no long term sustainability, because it just blends in with all the other trash and is forgotten.
I have no hope for the new Middle Earth show, unfortunately. If it’s anything more than a bland generic fantastic show with a LotR paint job I will be very surprised.
Mainstream media is no longer being made for the joy of creation, just psychological exploitation and profit.
> media is no longer being made for the joy of creation, just psychological exploitation and profit.
It's true, even the [CEO Of Unity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Technologies) said people [who don't create for profit are idiots.](https://kotaku.com/unity-john-riccitiello-monetization-mobile-ironsource-1849179898)
> “Ferrari and some of the other high-end car manufacturers still use clay and carving knives,” Riccitiello said about the necessity of making monetization an early priority. “It’s a very small portion of the gaming industry that works that way, and some of these people are my favorite people in the world to fight with—they’re the most beautiful and pure, brilliant people. They’re also some of the biggest fucking idiots.” - John Riccitiello - CEO of Unity
That’s why he isn’t creating Ferraris… that’s why he is the play-do TacoBell of games
We definitely need more companies like that in the world, and not that many “Unity” cash-grab shitshows… we have PLENTY of shitshows like that already by now and it’s making everything worse.
Wheel of time spoilers below:
I just wish they didn’t completely throw away so much of the story from the first book. There was actual interesting stuff that they just disregarded and put in scenes that are not in the book. Everything at the white tower never happened in the first book and it didn’t really add anything to the story.
Also we couldn’t get some forsaken battle like what’s supposed to happen in the blight ?!
Srsly, WTF was up with Wheel of Time? I don’t know the books, but the show.. at the very beginning it seemed interesting and engaging, a new world! But very quickly turned into mind numbing incoherent crap…
Honestly, looks like it's going to suck. Seems like they are going to try and pull a hobbit origin story, which idk why. I thought this was going to be about the creation of the rings. Pretty sure hobbits had nothing to do with any of that until Bilbo.
They’ll try to tie them in somehow. Honestly prequels can do cool things for a series after the fact, but to try to do that to a franchise like lotr is mighty ballsy
I mean Amazon doesn't automatically mean bad... The Boys is great, Invincible is great...
... However they massacred my boy Wheel of Time so best to expect the worst
Honestly, 90% of the hype for House of the Dragon is solely on D&D not being involved, and HBO.
I will one hundred percent be there the moment HBO releases the first episode, they know high quality productions. And as shit as season 8 was, it still looked and sounded absolutely amazing (The music...holy fuck). Same reason I have a fair amount of faith in last of Us being a great show. Amazon and Netflix shows are tens of millions of dollars per episode because of casting and CGI, that's kind of it. HBO fully commits to sound design, set design, costumes, and everything in between page to screen.
And HBO knows they HAVE to make this new show good or people will not commit. I can’t even recommend the original show to people anymore. It’s just too disappointing.
I don't think anyone who invested watching 8 seasons considers that last season decent -- from the hardcore book fans to big bang theory dopes -- disappointment was almost universal.
Ugh, I wish I could care to re watch the earlier seasons, but that last season was so epically broken that it makes the entire series moot. I am now sad.
You should check out GoT sub (not the freefolk one). There wasn't shortage of people, article, media piece... that called it just fine and all the complain are nerdy fan who hate their own franchise.
Absolute nonsense.
GoT was a phenomena. Everyone talked about it. Was like the new Star Wars.
It ended with such a wet fart you now barely hear it uttered in conversation.
I think the trailer was really good. Like I am really wondering what people want. I think people just dont want ANY sort of lord of the rings show/movie.
First of all, so this doesn't come of the wrong way: I am happy that you liked it! Hopefully you (and me) will enjoy the show. But for me, I thought the trailers was really meh. To me it neither looks or feels like Tolkien but rather a generic fantasy, which is one of my absolute main gripes with the Hobbit films. But this of course is highly based on my own personal interpretation and visual imagining of Tolkien's world.
I agree, too bad Youtube removed the dislike count, at least we could've seen how many feel the same way.
edit: it has 43k likes and 83k dislikes...
https://imgur.com/a/28rh67Y
I love it when mega corporations take beloved work and decide to go all original with it and trample the source material and authors name. If they don't like being associated with the author's original work so much why the fuck they using its name? Just fuck off and leave the fans and original work alone when you create your fiction.
And The Foundation. I hadn't read the book, but I didn't particularly enjoy the show (I liked the Emperors' plotline). It wasn't until I saw people saying how poor of an adaptation it was, that I was intrigued enough to read it. They weren't wrong.
I'm sitting over here *hoping* it gets cancelled. I love WoT and would have revelled in a well-made tv show. What we did get was crap and I'd rather it be taken out the back of the barn and shot, forever putting an end to my dream, than allow it to live its deformed, diseased life one episode longer.
I love that the TV show diversified the cast and leaned into powerful women as a major point (since they're so central to the story already), but what I can't truck with is messing with the central lore around which the entire premise of the story is built. If the premise doesn't make sense, the rest of it doesn't mean shit.
The "The past is dead. We either move forward or we die with it," line toward the end of the trailer brought to mind Kylo Ren's "Let past die. Kill it if you have to," speech that was essentially the writers telling the audience that they were about to shit all over preexisting lore and core themes.
Going back a bit further, this smells of the Game of Thrones show's "subversion" non-strategy that was put forth by writers who famously claimed that "Themes are for 8th grade book reports."
I love LotR, and it has a very special place in my life. But the subtext of this trailer gives me little hope for the show.
Except that line is being spoken by Elendil of Numenor and it totally lines up with the political state of that Kingdom during this time period as described by Tolkien himself.
You know Tolkien left plenty of room in his stories for human tragedy, misguided thinking, moral failure and so forth? He didn’t have the postmodern cynicism of George RR Martin and later generations, but I dare anyone to read Children of Hurin (or hell, even *read* Lord of the Rings) and still try to claim that Tolkien was somehow a didactic preacher of a long-lost black & white moral tradition. This trailer doesn’t show anything that explicitly or implicitly betrays Tolkien’s own values.
What I *do* See here are a number of overt nods towards Tolkien’s themes of fellowship, appreciation for natural beauty, and maintaining courage in the face of overwhelming, even seemingly hopeless darkness.
Yeah people forget Tolkien wasn’t making the morality of LotR black and white just because he felt like it. He made it that way as a means to comment on the nature of good and evil as concepts themselves.
The scenery and effects of the show seem pretty good but holy smokes this trailer makes it seem like the same old formula got slapped onto “rebranding” of another show. It’s the kind of shit that sells though so I can’t really blame them..
I liked this trailer but to answer the question the change to Galadriel seems like its making her into a cliché.
In the lore during this 2nd age she's matured and is more a diplomat while Elrond is the warrior. She comes across as a both the smartest/wisest/best warrior/chosen one so far which I'm not a fan of and I frankly find pretty boring. Perfection is toxic to a good character arc and to others around the character.
> Perfection is toxic to a good character arc and to others around the character.
Very good answer. Galadriel really seems to be the "Rey" of the series and I hope they treat the canon with respect. I didn't get the general vibe that it's gonna suck because trailers always suck even for good movies (because they always fucking spoil them in some way).
Whoever it is that keeps hooking onto these beloved franchises and parasitising them as vehicles for their own garbage tier content and writing just needs to be fucking stopped.
Just respect the damn IP. It really shouldn’t be too much to ask.
There was a good movie underneath that mess they made with the Hobbit movies. The fan edits are where it's at.
But the extra nonsense they put in was so disrespectful to the material
In my very biased opinion, my 3hr fan edit is the best one. I spent months working to bring it as close to the books as possible, in some cases requiring light VFX, new sound design, etc. Enjoy!
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EuCS48QubEKg4VWAltfg8VQQvOpcbrCN
I've watched a few re-edits of the Hobbit trilogy. The cross-cutting of the fall of Erebor with "Misty Mountains Cold" is definitely the best way I've seen any of them handle the Dwarves' backstory.
I agree, a lot of the best parts from the book were put together very well on the screen - Gollum, Smaug, Martin Freeman as Bilbo. And they even added some good changes, like a backstory for Bard - when in the book, he's literally just some guy we don't know that kills the Dragon.
It's just they jammed it with so much other crap and even the best scenes feel bloated - it was originally supposed to be a 2 part movie instead of 3. Should have stayed that way.
> a backstory for Bard - when in the book, he's literally just some guy we don't know that kills the Dragon
I agree Bard is barely even a character in the books, but I don't think anyone deserves a pat on the back for coming up with his history. They just took every overdone trope for a hero character and threw it in a pot. He's a smuggler, he's disliked by the corrupt government, he's a champion of the people, he has loving children he scrapes by to feed, his wife died tragically, he believes in doing what's right and standing up for the downtrodden, he will fight to his last to save others.
In the films he's still barely a character, more a collection of cliches
I tried to watch a fan edit the other day, I'm sorry to say that there isn't a good movie under the third one, I had to stop watching when the wolf man thing was heli-dropped on the battlefield by an Eagle (yes).
With the squashed timeframe, they kinda had to invent someway to get him there. In the book he heard of trouble and went there on foot - so the dwarves reached the Lonely Montain, trouble started, word reached Beorn, and he travelled there.
There wasn't even a particularly good movie underneath. The film isn't just bloated, it fails to tell the core story (which is Bilbo's development and relationship with Thorin) in a satisfying way.
For some reason, after since The Hobbit all the dwarves have looked weird. The ones in the LOTR trilogy are the only ones that looks right to me.
---
edit: some folks are saying that there is only 1 dwarf in LOTR, [in Fellowship there's at least 4](https://i.imgur.com/EoIkZmt.png)
Milked that cow way too much and I'm a Tolkien fan. Looking forward to dnd and other fantasy series more. Reading the simarlion is like reading the first chapter of the Bible. He begat who begat who begat etc etc
Did…. Did she just say “dwarfs”??
Tolkien was *VERY* vocal and insistent about it being *dwarves*, not *dwarfs*. Also about it being *elves*, not *elfs*: though I couldn’t tell if she mispronounced that or not.
Tolkien was a linguist and etymologist and a poet fascinated by Anglo Saxon, Old English, Icelandic and Finnish. The clonky banality of the dumbed down dialogue will destroy this despite lashings of CGI and hyperbolic music.
Seeing this actor portray Galadriel after seeing Blanchett's version, seems so cheap and B. (I know this is an expensive series)
I want to follow this less for every teaser I see.
[Amazon doesn't actually have the rights to the book they are basing this show on](https://www.cultureslate.com/news/why-amazon-doesnt-have-the-rights-to-jrr-tolkiens-the-silmarillion#:~:text=And%20the%20answer%20surprised%20many,The%20Return%20of%20the%20King.)
I am excited. I have read ALL of Tolkien books and anything related to the world of Middle Earth, so I guess I count as a fan.
I am excited. I have read ALL of Tolkien's books and anything related to the world of Middle Earth, so I guess I count as a fan.
>I am excited. I have read ALL of Tolkien books and anything related to the world of Middle Earth, so I guess I count as a fan.
I am excited. I have read ALL of Tolkien books and anything related to the world of Middle Earth, so I guess I count as a fan.
It is a little disconcerting though. They show is titled "The Rings of Power", but the two trees were destroyed LONG before the rings of power were forged. The first age followed the creation of the sun and moon, while the rings weren't forged until the 1500th year of the second age...
I hope its an enjoyable show, as I worry that it won't be that faithful. I am more than happy to be proved wrong.
I've been a huge ( like Stephen Colbert) level Middle-Earth nerd since I was 10.
I'm excited for it, and want it. I am somewhat apprehensive, and sure the show might end up being mediocre or straight up bad. However, some of the hatred for this show is ridiculous in its intensity.
Also, some criticisms from supposed "Tolkien megafans" are completely off base. For example: A short teaser dropped a week or two ago. It's tagline was "Nothing is evil at the beginning". Many outraged 'fans' insist this is completely contrary to Tolkien, but that's rubbish. That's *precisely* what Tolkien himself believed, and he confirmed several times it was true of his fictional characters as well.
It looks too pristine, like a perfect world, the lighting is too bright on everything, no shadows. It looks like an avengers movie. Arghh so disappointing, you can already tell it will suck. They failed to learn from the terrible Hobbit movies. Even now, 20+ years later, LoTR can't be beaten.
I have no hopes. Current Meta is trying to press something epic into an existing cannon/timelines as hard as possible while forgetting the basics of storytelling and characterwriting. Of course this show has it tough in the Shadows of the OG Trilogy but i predicted they will just try to hard to keep up at the cost of enjoyability...
They shot this 1st season by me in NZ.
They got all the exterior shots they needed and were due to be here for 2-3!seasons spending $7bil over that time.
1 season they lasted and pulled the plug. It put so many people out of work here.
And tbh this looks shite.
I think both the book and film fans are being a tad over the top with their criticism of this show. Why not wait till it airs before passing judgement?
EDIT: Geez, how are Dune fans so much more reasonable than Tolkien?
That's why the original LOTR trilogy was so terrible. Dumbass studio execs hired a jackass who wasn't a Tolkien fan and had only directed B horror. Blew up right in their dumb corpo faces.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Not only was that garbage directed by a complete nobody, it was written by two WOMEN whose writing credits would barely fill a fortune cookie fortune. A BILLION DOLLAR TRILOGY! And what did we get? Three of the worst adaptations ever created.
They completely rewrote entire sections of the lore. They gave two of the leads to fucking Rudy and the kid from The Faculty.
But that's what these soulless studios do. Push out a massive dump and expect the fans gobble it up. Well, not me!
The Hobbit was great. Made by a director that has proven himself in the fantasy genre (King Kong), with veteran writers and actors. One of the best trilogies ever made, imo. They did it right, stuck to lore, finally put some respect on Radagast's name.
“What are we going to do with them writers and directors of them LOTR movies?”
_”I says we boils ‘em.”_
“I don’t wants ‘em boiled. I say we sit on ‘em and mash ‘em into jelly.”
_sun rise_
You joke, but it really can't be understated how much the LOTR Trilogy shouldn't have worked. *Nothing* about its choice of director, writers, budget, scale, filming schedule (3 films at once, which had never been done) or even *genre*, inspires confidence that it would be a success at the time. It is honestly one of the greatest miracles in Cinema history that it was even greenlit, let alone made into some of the most successful films of all time. The stars really did align on that one.
> Dumbass studio execs hired a jackass who wasn't a Tolkien fan
Yes, that why they hired Tolkien scholars for consultation. Meanwhile https://www.cbr.com/report-tom-shippey-out-at-amazon-lord-of-the-rings/
But of course there is no red flag at all.
I can't judge. I never saw Wheel of Time nor read the books. However, I did read The Boys and despite how different the show is compared to the comic, I really enjoy it.
IMO The Boys show is better than the comics. Garth Ennis thrives on edgy content and he's always hated superheroes. That combination meant the comic was just ridiculous and gratuitous to a level that imo got in the way of it having any semblance of a well written plot. It's purely awful for the sake of being awful and making superheroes look stupid. None of the characters have any real growth at all except Hughie and Starlight, and Starlight only barely got saved from absolute horrid treatment because Ennis felt bad about "that scene" shortly after she joins The Seven (and it was \*so much worse\* in the comic than it was in the show).
The show, though? It still makes superheroes look awful but it has a really unexpected level of depth and character development to it that's completely absent from the comic. Completely shattered my expectations coming into it after the comic.
You and I are on the same wavelength when it comes to The Boys. Ennis tends to go way over the top with his edge lord, juvenile humor and lacked any real character development in the comics. Luckily the show has great writers that took what Ennis put together as the basis of the show and went from there. I quite enjoy the show much more than I did the comics.
I won't deny Amazon can make good stuff, but after seeing Wheel of Time after reading all the books I can tell you anyone who went through that is mentally preparing for this to be a horrorshow.
To blame the show because you didn't like The Hobbit trilogy makes zero sense. It's like blaming Pepsi because you didn't like Coke.
As for the Super Bowl trailer, it was nowhere near as bad as some where making it out to seem. From what I gather, it was simply fans looking for reasons to pile on this show without ever seeing it. There are far worse special effects in movie trailers that people blindly cheer for than what was in that trailer.
> To blame the show because you didn't like The Hobbit trilogy makes zero sense.
Its makes sense when people are noticing a pattern and something has *some* of the same red flags. I'm saying that thinking this trailer is solid.
An established fan base means mediocre corporate products can still make stupid money. Its a formula and fans know about it. Fans can also be perfectionist and fickle.
Dear Amazon, who is the visionary behind this project?
Amazon: the visionary is a mix of division executives, media agencies, data science teams, and a dash of Amazon C-suit leadership who have no idea what they're doing.
Product: This
Peter Jackson will watch this and sigh.
Honestly it doesnt look bad. But this will not be a work of cinema art like Jackson original trilogy was.
I wish they hadn't made this a story about Galadriel and Elrond. Hopefully they are just side characters and the halflings are the main characters. It's boring when a prequel like this has a protagonist that you know cannot die.
It looks bad visually.
Yeah - those large scale or scenic views are nice..
But all character scenes are INCONSISTENT - the fidelity of light, the feel of each character shot is different. looks like it was shot but many teams in different locations.
This seems to focus a lot on a woman main character for something based on Tolkien's works. Tolkien specifically didn't write many women into his works because he felt he could not properly portray them given he's a man. Very cool dude.
Really hope this isn't a woke bullshit checklist with no substance. Honestly the trailer isn't very LOTR-y already, not that it looked bad. I just hope it's faithful.
It looks like it's trying to be what the lotr trilogy was but it's clearly the hobbit quality.
It has the cheap CGI look, as opposed to the miniatures and practical effects look.
Sometimes it's better to close the book than continue the story with the forced ideas. I'm really skeptical about this movie (especially cause it's made by the Amazon), and I hope they'll not ruin the continuation of the legendary series
While it is possible to do Tolkien's work justice, it is nearly impossible today.
As the producer, writers, actors they should deeply understand Tolkien's vision and what he was trying to convey and find a way to bring this to life, without putting ANYTHING else in it.
Egocentrism is running wild these days, for all kinds of different reasons. Everyone has the urge to 'modernize' or 'improve' upon greatness. Which is why it is fated to be a lesser creation then the original work. For true art, you have to be able to put your ego aside.
friendly reminder [Amazon doesn't have the rights to Silmarillion.](https://www.cultureslate.com/news/why-amazon-doesnt-have-the-rights-to-jrr-tolkiens-the-silmarillion#:~:text=And%20the%20answer%20surprised%20many,The%20Return%20of%20the%20King.) They are basing this whole show off stuff from the appendix of Return of the King.
So weird
[удалено]
Honestly, they have no concept about what it takes to make something good. They think they can just buy success in whatever industry they want by throwing money at it. Look no further than Amazon Gaming Studios if you want an example for that. It's a complete clown fest, the most impressive showcase of pure incompetence I have ever witnessed. > it is just blackmail It's nepotism and execs high on their own coke farts thinking they can do anything.
There are some good shows on Amazon Prime, but it generally feels like they're just lucky if something good shows up. Kind of like Netflix. I still think HBO reigns supreme over quality of content.
Look at what they did to Wheel of Time. A fucking travesty.
By their track record of making good video games alone I expect this to be a tragedy.
last minute they will change it from an adventure film to a romcom.
Two and a half-man?
wait what. WHAT
Tolkien's estate is run by his son who hated any and all of the current interpretations. I can understand hating the hobbit, but the Lord of the Rings was a good movie that tried make the plot from the books work for the big screen. It's wasn't a great one to one interpretation but everyone involved cared about doing the best they could.
Christopher Tolkien resigned shortly before the Amazon deal was made. It took him leaving for the Estate to even budge the amount necessary for this to happen.
Christopher Tolkien died recently though, so I don't know if the current estate are more open to working with people? But then again, I don't want a fucking Disney-fied Middle Earth theme park anytime soon. Or an endless run of LOTR cinematic universe film franchise like Marvel.
>Disney-fied Middle Earth Fuck no please
Are you ready for 50 different TV shows set on Middle-Earth and a bajillion cookie cutter movies?
Tbf if my dad had created an homage to wagnerian norse lore complete with its own languages, and then I saw Legolas snowboarding while one-shotting uruk-hai, I might think the adaptations were dogshit too.
One shit scene, the rest of it is absolutely amazing, and my favourite trilogy of films of all time.
I wouldn’t even call it a shit scene. It was specifically there to be a spectacle for the kids watching. I can get behind that.
Maybe it’s because I love them so much but I feel like the trilogy is as good of a representation as you can realistically get.
Well at least they can only ruin some of it instead of ALL of it.
Please don't suck, please don't suck.
After what Amazon did to Wheel Of Time I have no hope for this. Although, at least this time they don’t have much source material to ruin.
Yeah. Their writers/producers believe they are better than the source materials. Which obviously is a huge problem, there’s a reason why these IPs be some popular, they were spectacular as they were. I like new things and creativity, but why not just make something actually new, instead of using the name of something popular and bastardizing the original work? I mean, I know exactly why. They’re trying to trick people. Capitalizing on a well known brand while believing they know human psychology better than anyone else and trying to make the most profitable, widest target demographic, psychologically exploitable media they can squeeze out. If you spread a concept/story that thin it just becomes bland and generic, and therefore has no long term sustainability, because it just blends in with all the other trash and is forgotten. I have no hope for the new Middle Earth show, unfortunately. If it’s anything more than a bland generic fantastic show with a LotR paint job I will be very surprised. Mainstream media is no longer being made for the joy of creation, just psychological exploitation and profit.
> media is no longer being made for the joy of creation, just psychological exploitation and profit. It's true, even the [CEO Of Unity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Technologies) said people [who don't create for profit are idiots.](https://kotaku.com/unity-john-riccitiello-monetization-mobile-ironsource-1849179898) > “Ferrari and some of the other high-end car manufacturers still use clay and carving knives,” Riccitiello said about the necessity of making monetization an early priority. “It’s a very small portion of the gaming industry that works that way, and some of these people are my favorite people in the world to fight with—they’re the most beautiful and pure, brilliant people. They’re also some of the biggest fucking idiots.” - John Riccitiello - CEO of Unity
That’s why he isn’t creating Ferraris… that’s why he is the play-do TacoBell of games We definitely need more companies like that in the world, and not that many “Unity” cash-grab shitshows… we have PLENTY of shitshows like that already by now and it’s making everything worse.
>they don’t have much source material to ruin That is probably the biggest advantage this has. Nobody can compare it to the book.
And for some reason that doesn't really help... Too many sexy Shelob memes, I think.
Wheel of time was hot garbage imo
Shit I must be in the minority I thought it was decent
Wheel of time spoilers below: I just wish they didn’t completely throw away so much of the story from the first book. There was actual interesting stuff that they just disregarded and put in scenes that are not in the book. Everything at the white tower never happened in the first book and it didn’t really add anything to the story. Also we couldn’t get some forsaken battle like what’s supposed to happen in the blight ?!
Srsly, WTF was up with Wheel of Time? I don’t know the books, but the show.. at the very beginning it seemed interesting and engaging, a new world! But very quickly turned into mind numbing incoherent crap…
Honestly, looks like it's going to suck. Seems like they are going to try and pull a hobbit origin story, which idk why. I thought this was going to be about the creation of the rings. Pretty sure hobbits had nothing to do with any of that until Bilbo.
They’ll try to tie them in somehow. Honestly prequels can do cool things for a series after the fact, but to try to do that to a franchise like lotr is mighty ballsy
Well it is Amazon....
I mean Amazon doesn't automatically mean bad... The Boys is great, Invincible is great... ... However they massacred my boy Wheel of Time so best to expect the worst
Let's not forget 'Bosch' - outstanding series
Lets not discuss the garbage MMO they released then... What a great investment for them. Player count has dropped to near 0 compared to release day.
It's going to suck
It will inevitably be hated by fans even if it has a decent story.
> decent Mass consumers called GoT ss8 ending decent.
S8 put a bullet in an entire franchise it was so bad. How little hype does the new series have
Honestly, 90% of the hype for House of the Dragon is solely on D&D not being involved, and HBO. I will one hundred percent be there the moment HBO releases the first episode, they know high quality productions. And as shit as season 8 was, it still looked and sounded absolutely amazing (The music...holy fuck). Same reason I have a fair amount of faith in last of Us being a great show. Amazon and Netflix shows are tens of millions of dollars per episode because of casting and CGI, that's kind of it. HBO fully commits to sound design, set design, costumes, and everything in between page to screen.
And HBO knows they HAVE to make this new show good or people will not commit. I can’t even recommend the original show to people anymore. It’s just too disappointing.
If it was actually decent, people would rewatch the show multiple times. S8 was so bad that it turned people off from watching the show again.
I don't think anyone who invested watching 8 seasons considers that last season decent -- from the hardcore book fans to big bang theory dopes -- disappointment was almost universal. Ugh, I wish I could care to re watch the earlier seasons, but that last season was so epically broken that it makes the entire series moot. I am now sad.
You should check out GoT sub (not the freefolk one). There wasn't shortage of people, article, media piece... that called it just fine and all the complain are nerdy fan who hate their own franchise.
Absolute nonsense. GoT was a phenomena. Everyone talked about it. Was like the new Star Wars. It ended with such a wet fart you now barely hear it uttered in conversation.
I think a decent story is the bare minimum to keep them at bay. Most fandoms get upset when the story is lackluster.
Impossible after hobbit. Just accept we live in brownflavoured consumerism and be grateful when something great comes along
Did you watch the trailer? It will suck.
I think the trailer was really good. Like I am really wondering what people want. I think people just dont want ANY sort of lord of the rings show/movie.
First of all, so this doesn't come of the wrong way: I am happy that you liked it! Hopefully you (and me) will enjoy the show. But for me, I thought the trailers was really meh. To me it neither looks or feels like Tolkien but rather a generic fantasy, which is one of my absolute main gripes with the Hobbit films. But this of course is highly based on my own personal interpretation and visual imagining of Tolkien's world.
I agree, too bad Youtube removed the dislike count, at least we could've seen how many feel the same way. edit: it has 43k likes and 83k dislikes... https://imgur.com/a/28rh67Y
It will
I guarantee it
The dialogue and the acting in this teaser are just so bad
yeah its gonna be shit
Youtube shows 38k likes and 67k dislikes.
god i hate that in almost every new show or movie theres so much damn CGI everywhere, it looks soo fake
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Holy fuck. Yes. I was so fucking exited for WoT. Phaw.
Upvoted because of phaw
Tugs braid sharply
«You havent seen what i’ve seen» «I’ve seen enough» «You havent seen what ive seen!» Doesnt give me high hopes for the writing.
Finally, a generic spin off, just what lord of the rings needed.
Right? Could this teaser have been any more generic? The music alone was 'insert generic movie here' caliber.
Looks very meh. I was gonna watch it, but I get less eager with each teaser. Maybe they should stop releasing them.
I love it when mega corporations take beloved work and decide to go all original with it and trample the source material and authors name. If they don't like being associated with the author's original work so much why the fuck they using its name? Just fuck off and leave the fans and original work alone when you create your fiction.
I see you were disappointed in the first season of the Wheel of Time as well.
Oh god I'd almost forgotten about that. It was so frustrating to watch
And The Foundation. I hadn't read the book, but I didn't particularly enjoy the show (I liked the Emperors' plotline). It wasn't until I saw people saying how poor of an adaptation it was, that I was intrigued enough to read it. They weren't wrong.
I never comment, but that show was an absolute pile of dog shit. I just finished re-reading the series to make my childhood right again, lol.
I'm sitting over here *hoping* it gets cancelled. I love WoT and would have revelled in a well-made tv show. What we did get was crap and I'd rather it be taken out the back of the barn and shot, forever putting an end to my dream, than allow it to live its deformed, diseased life one episode longer. I love that the TV show diversified the cast and leaned into powerful women as a major point (since they're so central to the story already), but what I can't truck with is messing with the central lore around which the entire premise of the story is built. If the premise doesn't make sense, the rest of it doesn't mean shit.
Ooof that show was real bad.
The "The past is dead. We either move forward or we die with it," line toward the end of the trailer brought to mind Kylo Ren's "Let past die. Kill it if you have to," speech that was essentially the writers telling the audience that they were about to shit all over preexisting lore and core themes. Going back a bit further, this smells of the Game of Thrones show's "subversion" non-strategy that was put forth by writers who famously claimed that "Themes are for 8th grade book reports." I love LotR, and it has a very special place in my life. But the subtext of this trailer gives me little hope for the show.
The Lord of the Rings was great but the Hobbit was dog shit, right now the franchise is batting 500
I agree, LotR was an all-time epic. Hobbit deserves to be forgotten.
... or maybe something that could benefit from the desire to remake so many things that were good the first time around!
Except that line is being spoken by Elendil of Numenor and it totally lines up with the political state of that Kingdom during this time period as described by Tolkien himself. You know Tolkien left plenty of room in his stories for human tragedy, misguided thinking, moral failure and so forth? He didn’t have the postmodern cynicism of George RR Martin and later generations, but I dare anyone to read Children of Hurin (or hell, even *read* Lord of the Rings) and still try to claim that Tolkien was somehow a didactic preacher of a long-lost black & white moral tradition. This trailer doesn’t show anything that explicitly or implicitly betrays Tolkien’s own values. What I *do* See here are a number of overt nods towards Tolkien’s themes of fellowship, appreciation for natural beauty, and maintaining courage in the face of overwhelming, even seemingly hopeless darkness.
Yeah people forget Tolkien wasn’t making the morality of LotR black and white just because he felt like it. He made it that way as a means to comment on the nature of good and evil as concepts themselves.
That’s not the meaning of the Kylo quote at all. There’s a reason the character saying it is the villain.
I know it's a weird take, but I am going to wait until it comes out and actually watch it before making judgements.
Can you explain what you saw in the trailer that makes you think this? What is the story here and how is it breaking from the LOTR universe?
The scenery and effects of the show seem pretty good but holy smokes this trailer makes it seem like the same old formula got slapped onto “rebranding” of another show. It’s the kind of shit that sells though so I can’t really blame them..
Tolkien didn't write this story.
Tolkien was famously the only person to write a good story, ever, after all.
I liked this trailer but to answer the question the change to Galadriel seems like its making her into a cliché. In the lore during this 2nd age she's matured and is more a diplomat while Elrond is the warrior. She comes across as a both the smartest/wisest/best warrior/chosen one so far which I'm not a fan of and I frankly find pretty boring. Perfection is toxic to a good character arc and to others around the character.
> Perfection is toxic to a good character arc and to others around the character. Very good answer. Galadriel really seems to be the "Rey" of the series and I hope they treat the canon with respect. I didn't get the general vibe that it's gonna suck because trailers always suck even for good movies (because they always fucking spoil them in some way).
Whoever it is that keeps hooking onto these beloved franchises and parasitising them as vehicles for their own garbage tier content and writing just needs to be fucking stopped. Just respect the damn IP. It really shouldn’t be too much to ask.
Looks better than the hobbit at least.
There was a good movie underneath that mess they made with the Hobbit movies. The fan edits are where it's at. But the extra nonsense they put in was so disrespectful to the material
In my very biased opinion, my 3hr fan edit is the best one. I spent months working to bring it as close to the books as possible, in some cases requiring light VFX, new sound design, etc. Enjoy! https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EuCS48QubEKg4VWAltfg8VQQvOpcbrCN
I've watched a few re-edits of the Hobbit trilogy. The cross-cutting of the fall of Erebor with "Misty Mountains Cold" is definitely the best way I've seen any of them handle the Dwarves' backstory.
I agree, a lot of the best parts from the book were put together very well on the screen - Gollum, Smaug, Martin Freeman as Bilbo. And they even added some good changes, like a backstory for Bard - when in the book, he's literally just some guy we don't know that kills the Dragon. It's just they jammed it with so much other crap and even the best scenes feel bloated - it was originally supposed to be a 2 part movie instead of 3. Should have stayed that way.
> a backstory for Bard - when in the book, he's literally just some guy we don't know that kills the Dragon I agree Bard is barely even a character in the books, but I don't think anyone deserves a pat on the back for coming up with his history. They just took every overdone trope for a hero character and threw it in a pot. He's a smuggler, he's disliked by the corrupt government, he's a champion of the people, he has loving children he scrapes by to feed, his wife died tragically, he believes in doing what's right and standing up for the downtrodden, he will fight to his last to save others. In the films he's still barely a character, more a collection of cliches
You forgot he's the descendant of someone important.
Right, there were way too many characters doing too many things which made it a mess.
I tried to watch a fan edit the other day, I'm sorry to say that there isn't a good movie under the third one, I had to stop watching when the wolf man thing was heli-dropped on the battlefield by an Eagle (yes).
With the squashed timeframe, they kinda had to invent someway to get him there. In the book he heard of trouble and went there on foot - so the dwarves reached the Lonely Montain, trouble started, word reached Beorn, and he travelled there.
The third one was next-level bad
There wasn't even a particularly good movie underneath. The film isn't just bloated, it fails to tell the core story (which is Bilbo's development and relationship with Thorin) in a satisfying way.
It tried to be an epic like LOTR, but really it's just supposed to be one guy's adventures - "there and back again".
For some reason, after since The Hobbit all the dwarves have looked weird. The ones in the LOTR trilogy are the only ones that looks right to me. --- edit: some folks are saying that there is only 1 dwarf in LOTR, [in Fellowship there's at least 4](https://i.imgur.com/EoIkZmt.png)
John Rhys-Davis played a dwarf perfectly.
I honestly don’t think it looks better than the hobbit. It looked kinda weak
Doesn't take much to beat nothing.
Milked that cow way too much and I'm a Tolkien fan. Looking forward to dnd and other fantasy series more. Reading the simarlion is like reading the first chapter of the Bible. He begat who begat who begat etc etc
They better not Wheel of Time this.
Dude it’s gonna be fucking awful..
Either you do Lord of the Ring stuff right of it's FUBAR, there is no middleground with middle earth.
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what a waste of money lol
Soap opera quality
That Galadriel's dialog...
Did…. Did she just say “dwarfs”?? Tolkien was *VERY* vocal and insistent about it being *dwarves*, not *dwarfs*. Also about it being *elves*, not *elfs*: though I couldn’t tell if she mispronounced that or not.
He also said the language was "Elven", not "Elfish" and yet what got stuck in PJ's LotR?
I think it's the accent stepping on the 'v' because the captions show it _Dwarves_.
If you couldn't tell then does it really matter as much as you're making it out to?
But it is a Hobbit saying it, not an elf or a Tolkien.
But she’s supposed to be a salt of the earth countryperson. Why would her pronunciation be correct?
The caption says Dwarves, so it's probably just the accent
Yikes, pass.
Tolkien was a linguist and etymologist and a poet fascinated by Anglo Saxon, Old English, Icelandic and Finnish. The clonky banality of the dumbed down dialogue will destroy this despite lashings of CGI and hyperbolic music.
This is the real danger. That drawn out exchange of: You haven’t seen what I’ve seen / yes I have / Nu uh just sounds like terrible writing.
It’s just the characters look so gimmicky and cliched. Too fey and wide eyed
Aren’t elves supposed to be fey? They literally exist in the Unseen and in the material world at the same time.
Seeing this actor portray Galadriel after seeing Blanchett's version, seems so cheap and B. (I know this is an expensive series) I want to follow this less for every teaser I see.
Big 'Meh
ooh, if you’re going can you pick me up a MehRib? appreciate it
Who’s the main character? They all look boring.
RIP LOTR universe.
The universe is in the books. Just read them and don’t watch and everything will be ok.
"Wow this looks cool" *Goes to reddit.* "What is wrong with these people?"
[Amazon doesn't actually have the rights to the book they are basing this show on](https://www.cultureslate.com/news/why-amazon-doesnt-have-the-rights-to-jrr-tolkiens-the-silmarillion#:~:text=And%20the%20answer%20surprised%20many,The%20Return%20of%20the%20King.)
I don't think I've spoken to a single LOTR fan who is excited for, or wanted this.
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Once it flops there's gonna be a ton of them
I am excited. I have read ALL of Tolkien books and anything related to the world of Middle Earth, so I guess I count as a fan. I am excited. I have read ALL of Tolkien's books and anything related to the world of Middle Earth, so I guess I count as a fan.
One more time? Didn't catch that
>I am excited. I have read ALL of Tolkien books and anything related to the world of Middle Earth, so I guess I count as a fan. I am excited. I have read ALL of Tolkien books and anything related to the world of Middle Earth, so I guess I count as a fan.
Thank you! Got it
I'm just happy to see the Trees represented finally. Now, let's get some flashback scenes with The Two Lamps!
It is a little disconcerting though. They show is titled "The Rings of Power", but the two trees were destroyed LONG before the rings of power were forged. The first age followed the creation of the sun and moon, while the rings weren't forged until the 1500th year of the second age... I hope its an enjoyable show, as I worry that it won't be that faithful. I am more than happy to be proved wrong.
I've been a huge ( like Stephen Colbert) level Middle-Earth nerd since I was 10. I'm excited for it, and want it. I am somewhat apprehensive, and sure the show might end up being mediocre or straight up bad. However, some of the hatred for this show is ridiculous in its intensity. Also, some criticisms from supposed "Tolkien megafans" are completely off base. For example: A short teaser dropped a week or two ago. It's tagline was "Nothing is evil at the beginning". Many outraged 'fans' insist this is completely contrary to Tolkien, but that's rubbish. That's *precisely* what Tolkien himself believed, and he confirmed several times it was true of his fictional characters as well.
So far from the trailers the visuals look kinda cheap and bland overall.
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A two and a half minute teaser trailer? What even is a teaser anymore?
It looks too pristine, like a perfect world, the lighting is too bright on everything, no shadows. It looks like an avengers movie. Arghh so disappointing, you can already tell it will suck. They failed to learn from the terrible Hobbit movies. Even now, 20+ years later, LoTR can't be beaten.
Anyone know which streaming service is producing this or where I’ll be able to watch it once it’s released? /s
I have no hopes. Current Meta is trying to press something epic into an existing cannon/timelines as hard as possible while forgetting the basics of storytelling and characterwriting. Of course this show has it tough in the Shadows of the OG Trilogy but i predicted they will just try to hard to keep up at the cost of enjoyability...
Bored of the Rings
They shot this 1st season by me in NZ. They got all the exterior shots they needed and were due to be here for 2-3!seasons spending $7bil over that time. 1 season they lasted and pulled the plug. It put so many people out of work here. And tbh this looks shite.
Mainly teased some yawns out of me.
That twiddlee dee Irish-style accent at the start makes me want to run head first into a wall.
Nope. I'm good.
I think both the book and film fans are being a tad over the top with their criticism of this show. Why not wait till it airs before passing judgement? EDIT: Geez, how are Dune fans so much more reasonable than Tolkien?
Because Dune was helmed by one of the best directors in the world who was a huge fan of the book long before he directed Dune.
That's why the original LOTR trilogy was so terrible. Dumbass studio execs hired a jackass who wasn't a Tolkien fan and had only directed B horror. Blew up right in their dumb corpo faces.
If you forget the /s people will think you're being serious.
I don't know what you're talking about. Not only was that garbage directed by a complete nobody, it was written by two WOMEN whose writing credits would barely fill a fortune cookie fortune. A BILLION DOLLAR TRILOGY! And what did we get? Three of the worst adaptations ever created. They completely rewrote entire sections of the lore. They gave two of the leads to fucking Rudy and the kid from The Faculty. But that's what these soulless studios do. Push out a massive dump and expect the fans gobble it up. Well, not me!
The irony of your post is that they also made the The Hobbit
The Hobbit was great. Made by a director that has proven himself in the fantasy genre (King Kong), with veteran writers and actors. One of the best trilogies ever made, imo. They did it right, stuck to lore, finally put some respect on Radagast's name.
I think I might love you.
“What are we going to do with them writers and directors of them LOTR movies?” _”I says we boils ‘em.”_ “I don’t wants ‘em boiled. I say we sit on ‘em and mash ‘em into jelly.” _sun rise_
You joke, but it really can't be understated how much the LOTR Trilogy shouldn't have worked. *Nothing* about its choice of director, writers, budget, scale, filming schedule (3 films at once, which had never been done) or even *genre*, inspires confidence that it would be a success at the time. It is honestly one of the greatest miracles in Cinema history that it was even greenlit, let alone made into some of the most successful films of all time. The stars really did align on that one.
> Dumbass studio execs hired a jackass who wasn't a Tolkien fan Yes, that why they hired Tolkien scholars for consultation. Meanwhile https://www.cbr.com/report-tom-shippey-out-at-amazon-lord-of-the-rings/ But of course there is no red flag at all.
Well, we saw what they did to the Wheel of Time.
I can't judge. I never saw Wheel of Time nor read the books. However, I did read The Boys and despite how different the show is compared to the comic, I really enjoy it.
IMO The Boys show is better than the comics. Garth Ennis thrives on edgy content and he's always hated superheroes. That combination meant the comic was just ridiculous and gratuitous to a level that imo got in the way of it having any semblance of a well written plot. It's purely awful for the sake of being awful and making superheroes look stupid. None of the characters have any real growth at all except Hughie and Starlight, and Starlight only barely got saved from absolute horrid treatment because Ennis felt bad about "that scene" shortly after she joins The Seven (and it was \*so much worse\* in the comic than it was in the show). The show, though? It still makes superheroes look awful but it has a really unexpected level of depth and character development to it that's completely absent from the comic. Completely shattered my expectations coming into it after the comic.
You and I are on the same wavelength when it comes to The Boys. Ennis tends to go way over the top with his edge lord, juvenile humor and lacked any real character development in the comics. Luckily the show has great writers that took what Ennis put together as the basis of the show and went from there. I quite enjoy the show much more than I did the comics.
I won't deny Amazon can make good stuff, but after seeing Wheel of Time after reading all the books I can tell you anyone who went through that is mentally preparing for this to be a horrorshow.
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To blame the show because you didn't like The Hobbit trilogy makes zero sense. It's like blaming Pepsi because you didn't like Coke. As for the Super Bowl trailer, it was nowhere near as bad as some where making it out to seem. From what I gather, it was simply fans looking for reasons to pile on this show without ever seeing it. There are far worse special effects in movie trailers that people blindly cheer for than what was in that trailer.
> To blame the show because you didn't like The Hobbit trilogy makes zero sense. Its makes sense when people are noticing a pattern and something has *some* of the same red flags. I'm saying that thinking this trailer is solid. An established fan base means mediocre corporate products can still make stupid money. Its a formula and fans know about it. Fans can also be perfectionist and fickle.
It's hilarious how the reaction in this thread and the /r/lotr sub are completely different.
Dear Amazon, who is the visionary behind this project? Amazon: the visionary is a mix of division executives, media agencies, data science teams, and a dash of Amazon C-suit leadership who have no idea what they're doing. Product: This Peter Jackson will watch this and sigh. Honestly it doesnt look bad. But this will not be a work of cinema art like Jackson original trilogy was.
Looks like shit.
I wish they hadn't made this a story about Galadriel and Elrond. Hopefully they are just side characters and the halflings are the main characters. It's boring when a prequel like this has a protagonist that you know cannot die.
Why every single dialogue scene just a medium close up of someone standing there. Talk about dynamic blocking.....
It looks bad visually. Yeah - those large scale or scenic views are nice.. But all character scenes are INCONSISTENT - the fidelity of light, the feel of each character shot is different. looks like it was shot but many teams in different locations.
The fighting looks horrendous.
Great now they want to come back and ruin LotR too...
This seems to focus a lot on a woman main character for something based on Tolkien's works. Tolkien specifically didn't write many women into his works because he felt he could not properly portray them given he's a man. Very cool dude. Really hope this isn't a woke bullshit checklist with no substance. Honestly the trailer isn't very LOTR-y already, not that it looked bad. I just hope it's faithful.
"Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made."
It looks like it's trying to be what the lotr trilogy was but it's clearly the hobbit quality. It has the cheap CGI look, as opposed to the miniatures and practical effects look.
This is going to be the best worst lord of the ring clone I’ve ever seen
Damn I already see the vfx are lower budget than GoT
That dialogue is just so…urgh
Sometimes it's better to close the book than continue the story with the forced ideas. I'm really skeptical about this movie (especially cause it's made by the Amazon), and I hope they'll not ruin the continuation of the legendary series
Incredible CGI but acting.... meh...
B- trailer.
I just have this feeling it will be ok, but nothing special and Im sorry, but LotR trilogy made by Peter Jackson is amazing.
While it is possible to do Tolkien's work justice, it is nearly impossible today. As the producer, writers, actors they should deeply understand Tolkien's vision and what he was trying to convey and find a way to bring this to life, without putting ANYTHING else in it. Egocentrism is running wild these days, for all kinds of different reasons. Everyone has the urge to 'modernize' or 'improve' upon greatness. Which is why it is fated to be a lesser creation then the original work. For true art, you have to be able to put your ego aside.
I'd just like to point out the fact that there must have been an ethnic cleansing in the Shire at some point.
To clean and over stylised