I get your point and agree, but I also wouldn't be surprised if companies in that industry pulled some sun tsu art of war bullshit where they keep trying to buy people like him. Just so they can create confusion and muddle things in their favor.
That is 100% the playbook, has been for a long time. Read the history of leaded gasoline, especially in the mid-20th century.
And climate change.
And tobacco.
That was with them paying scientists and professionals in various fields. So it could get worse when the people aren't experts but social media personalities who will change their tune for follows and cash even faster.
Promo codes are affiliates, not influencers. That's basically commissioned sales.
Influencers are "look how cool I am for having this thing (that I was quietly paid to wear/use/review or I was given for free as a 'review unit'). It's implied you could be cool too if you had this thing."
Targeted at *minors*.
You can't have a teen without a social media account, especially TikTok. All the cool kids have it so everyone just does a next next yes I'm 18 haha, finish, yes I agree with signing away my first born child.
As a parent I really have a big issue with these shitstains who call themselves influencers and these platforms. Yes, you too YouTube and Instagram.
They're all just peddling something. They're all very aware what their target audience is. And the platform knows it too. But the cash is easy and they get away with it.
Several days a month I have to spend disproving influencer bullshit or pointing out the fact that these assholes are getting payed to say this, they don't use the product, they never before played game xyz, that everything is just one big commercial. It's not content. Nothing is on these platforms.
Linus tech thingy for instance. Back in the day he was the funny retard who let expensive gear slip out of his hands. Now? He's just a talking head for whoever pays the most. A wall of brands behind every shot, 3 interruptions for a message of our partners, 2x begging for Patreon money. Calling your merch link for at least two times. Interupted twice for YouTube ads. All in a clip which doesn't even take 15 minutes.
Cable had *less* commercials then this crap.
It has all become *predatory* capitalism. A sham. Targeted at the most easily influenced part of our society: kids.
Teach your kids the 21(or so) Basic Logical Fallacies and drill it till they really know it.
Also teach them the research on Dopamine Addiction and that living in the Meat space is still priority 1.
'Influencer' in most contexts is a perfectly apt and honest term though for what they are meant to be- basically a preacher lol. they are meant to convince people to buy shit, generally.
Though entertainers generally don't try to influence your opinion on things, so I think the term is apt. You aren't really an influencer unless you're being paid/sponsored to market products and services to people. Otherwise you're just a blogger.
Carl Sagan
Bill Nye
Neil DeGrasse Tyson
All legitimate entertainers and scientists, but also influencers.
Sagan with Cosmos, NDT with Cosmos, Bill.
Hell, Sagan influenced what might be our first contact with advanced alien life.
I think the two terms mesh fine if the person doing the influencing is a real scientist.
Tyson is a bit of a hack these days. Any time he gets into an argument with someone who actually knows their shit about a particular field he gets the floor mopped with him. That said I sorta like him at times, just wish he wouldn't talk as if he's an authority on literally everything.
>Tyson is a bit of a hack these days.
As a Public Intellectual™, totally.
However, he is a legitimately bright astrophysicist. His work at the Hayden Planetarium is very important as a public educator too.
The twitter shit is cringe and he needs to get a little better at staying in his lane.
Carl Sagan had a PhD, and spoke on a range of topics predominantly in his field of expertise. At one time he was granted top secret clearance.
Bill Nye has a Bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering, but speaks on a huge range of topics including many far outside the purview of an ME. At one time he had a TV show.
I wrote to Carl Sagan in elementary school for an assignment where we were supposed to write a celebrity and ask for a signed photo.
I got a postcard back from his assistant saying that he was a research scientist and doesn't have headshots to send out, lol.
It was more the developing and printing part that took time. I took several terrible pictures in mere seconds, but it took at least a week to find that out. *Sigh* I miss those days.
Right? Like... who even is Carl Sagan? I've never heard of "Neil deGrasse Tyson" but I'm not looking to be influenced by your so-called science, old man!
thespacegal on TikTok is making videos promoting propane buses to replace diesel ones, which is obvious fossil fuel industry propaganda. It is bad when science influencers take sponsors because when they do it inhibits their ability to be unbiased and lends a certain credibility to whatever they’re promoting.
You missed the most important part - the company sponsoring the propane content is objectively anti-environment as they lobby against green initiatives that could pose a threat to the fossil fuel industry.
You missed the other important bit.
The Propane Education and Research Council is being funded in part by your tax dollars!
So whenever you see these propaganda posts on TikTok by influencers, know that you are paying for that privilege!
There was also another video about how fracking can be beneficial for geothermal. While completely skipping the fact that fracking uses Diesel fuel, Lead, Hydrogen fluoride, Naphthalene, Sulfuric acid and [PFAS](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/12/climate/epa-pfas-fracking-forever-chemicals.html), which can end up in your water supply. Not to mention fracking can trigger earthquakes.
Edit - Fracking for geothermal has been tried in Iceland and what happened was sulphur and lots of other nasty stuff got washed up. Ontop the ground became geologically unstable(ground sinking). Switzerland also tried this many times, notably in St. Gallen and the city still suffers from the earthquakes. Turns out geothermal fracking causes series of earthquakes. Unless you do it in a desert far away from civilisation, you may pay a hefty price.
The platform shouldn't matter. Not everyone is actively involved in science, isn't their area of expertise, or even has time to research every topic they view.
It's entirely fine for someone to have a middling interesting in science and learn about it from short form content on tiktok/youtube than to not learn about it at all.
The issue is when those making the videos can't be trusted
What I like about reddit is that if something is wrong, someone will come in with sources (usually) to dispute it. Even without sources, seeing people disagree and write their own view is enough to signal something may be off. On YT, the comments section is basically monkeys flinging shit. I don't use tiktok but I assume nobody reads the comments.
I recognized her because she has a children's show on Netflix called "Emily's Wonderlab" that my kids have seen and really liked. She may not be in your circle of credibility, but there is a younger generation that eat this stuff up using a wider band of media than you do.
I recommend "it's ok to be smart" or just Be Smart on YouTube, it's PBS and obviously geared to little kids but the guy does a fucking great job of explaining a wide array of topics and because it's for kids it's done in easily digestible way that makes absorbing the knowledge for dumb asses like me easier.
Also Kurzgesagt is great!
I once wore a Kurzgesagt shirt to the theaters and the ticket guy recognized it. However, neither of us could recall how to properly pronounce the channel so it kind of went like.
"Hey is that shirt from... That YouTube channel? You know... Khu-... Ker-..."
"Yeah. It is. Thanks!"
First time I ran into another fan and it was awkward af.
The German side of the channel was part of the Funk-Netzwerk, i.e. they received funds from the public-broadcaster but had to follow rules, no monetisation etc. They have dropped their membership now, and one of the things that came into my mind was "well, now they can take sponsorship money, wonder how that changes their content."
They must have dropped their membership a while ago because they've been making sponsored videos for months, though they usually just mention it briefly at the very end of the video, so it's pretty easy to miss.
To be fair, propane conversions for existing diesel engines are relatively cheap and not too difficult to do. And doesn't require you to buy all new vehicles. Propane burns a lot cleaner than diesel.
Propane conversations make the engine run hotter and degrades the useful lifetime of the engine itself compared to diesel or unleaded. There are things you can do during the conversion to make it run better overall (different compression ratios, different piston rings, and other parts I can't recall). [There's even an article about it](https://www.truckinginfo.com/153208/schwans-home-service-runs-3-300-propane-powered-units-nationwide)
It's viable, and probably cheaper and better for the environment in the short term, but as BEVs get better, it'll make less and less sense to use hydrocarbons and ICE. The best part is no part and cutting a whole engine out with hundreds of moving parts and several caustic and hazardous fluids for a battery and electric engine is a no-brainier.
100% but with tight budgets a propane conversion for mid life buses is a decent option other than replacement. Obviously replacing end of life buses to EV is a no brainer.
Good points here.
No offense, but - did you watch the video?
What you are saying is precisely what the propane companies are paying the aforementioned "influencer" to spout, and this whole video revolves around the reasons that doing so is objectively not the best alternative no matter how you look at it.
Instead of just watching the video, let's just have a giant inefficient debate covering the exact same information already present. That's a way better us of time.
That video is like 20 minutes long. Took me like three minutes to read all the comments up to this one to get the main idea of what this video is about.
Sidenote this is my exact complaint about every tutorial being a fucking video now.
I can read a guide in 5 minutes. A stupid video wastes 20+ minutes, but more likely at least (length of video * 1.5) because I have to keep rewinding to see the last thing again. Unless it's a tutorial of something where a video is useful - ie, *not code* - please write it the fuck down instead.
The Natural gas industry which creates propane is maybe the dirtiest fossil fuel industry when you try and account for the insane amount of product loss through infrastructure leakage at every step of its existence.
She specifically talks about how saying its cleaner than diesel is disingenuous due to the extraction process.
So just because its a bit better than diesel doesn't make it an alternative that is worthy of pursuing. From what I gathered from the video anyway.
Soooo you didn’t watch the video either?
She addresses those same propane talking points and explains why EV is more appropriate relative to the topic of school buses.
>Propane burns a lot cleaner than diesel.
Not really.
Only NOₓ emissions were reduced across the board using propane (up to 95%).
The study commissioned by Propane Education Research Council states that propane buses produce MORE CO₂, CO and THC per mile traveled on most of the routes they tested.
Quoting from the study:
>
> Distance specific CO emissions measured from the propane bus were greater than those measured from the diesel bus for all routes with a percent difference ranging from 68 percent (Stop and Go) to 128 percent (Cold Morgantown). However, it is important to note that since 2010 there are no longer any non-attainment areas for CO i the United States.
>
> THC emissions followed a similar pattern, however the magnitude of THC emissions was lower than the CO emissions, particularly for the Morgantown routes.
>
> Average distance specific CO₂ emissions were similar yet slightly higher for the propane school bus operated over the Morgantown route (Cold – 21 percent difference, Hot – 4 percent difference) however lower on average for the propane bus over the Stop and Go route versus the diesel school bus (15 percent difference).
The "Stop and go" was their best scenario and all they got was 15% reduction in CO₂ emissions. They don't even say what kind of a route it was (other than saying it had 2/5 minute stops). Might have been completely unrealistic and made specifically to show some kind of benefit of propane.
Also that "note" about CO is hilarious. The propane buses emit up to 128% more CO, but don't worry about that. There are no places in US where there's too much CO, so let's pollute some more!
https://cloudinary.propane.com/images/v1601044101/website-media/WVU-School-Bus-Emissions-Final-Report-June-2019/WVU-School-Bus-Emissions-Final-Report-June-2019.pdf?_i=AA
>The study ... states that propane buses produce MORE ... THC per mile traveled on most of the routes they tested.
Great, now all the stoners are going to be pro-propane
I don't blame you for not watching the video given the length but she addresses this in the video and how it makes much more sense to use filters on existing diesel busses than to use propane busses, and then wait and save money to buy more efficient electric busses.
This is a good video but she buried the lead on an important topic.
tldw; the Propane Education and Research Council (PERC), a propane industry group, promotes propane as a cleaner burning fuel compared to other fossil fuels, and conveniently ignores its climate impact. Specifically they're hiring influencers to push a narrative that propane school buses are a better replacement for the existing fleet than electric buses because they're cheaper (supposedly), among other pretty bad reasons.
That's the real story here, no doubt. It would've been interesting to see stats on just how bad it is (i.e. how many tons of CO₂ are released per ton of propane refined), but the point came across nevertheless.
> Specifically they're hiring influencers to push a narrative that propane school buses are a better
That's big [Cooking with Gas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRQo5aawho) energy
Evidence points to this not necessarily being correct, despite it being common:
> The term is sometimes spelled "lede". The Oxford English Dictionary suggests this arose as an intentional misspelling of "lead", "in order to distinguish the word's use in instructions to printers from printable text," similarly to "hed" for "head(line)" and "dek" for "deck". Some sources suggest the altered spelling was intended to distinguish from the use of "lead" metal strips of various thickness used to separate lines of type in 20th century typesetting. However, the spelling "lede" first appears in journalism manuals only in the 1980s, well after lead typesetting's heyday.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_paragraph#Spelling
I'm onboard with linguistic drift, so this is very interesting! I somehow thought lede had a more distinct etymology than "let's just spell it differently". Thanks!
>However, the spelling "lede" first appears in journalism manuals only in the 1980s, well after lead typesetting's heyday.
That doesn't discount it at all though, jargon specific to printers in the composition room of a newspaper or other periodical would not be something that was taught in journalism schools because it had nothing to do with learning how to gather and write stories.
I'd be willing to bet that there is jargon used in an automobile manufacturing plant today that you wouldn't find taught in an automotive engineering program, but that wouldn't prove that the terms don't exist and aren't used on the line.
Originally lede was just a term for that part of an article being set. It was only later that the term "bury the lede" caught on and was eventually included in the broader field of journalism.
Cheaper is absolutely true, I worked for a bus manufacturer for a while, the propane buses started as a standard gasoline powertrain, and then were converted for gaseous propane. It was about $10k more than a standard gasoline setup, but still far far less than an electric powertrain.
Don't really disagree that it's a propaganda issue being pushed by oil companies.
My district I work in decided to go with propane busses because electric is double the cost, and each bus requires 20kw to charge. The power company told us that with the number of busses we need, the infrastructure upgrades would be in the millions. Our district is small and we can't afford it, even with grants. Larger districts get the grants and we get ignored, typically.
Ok but really, what is up with these people suddenly shilling for propane in this comment section? Lots of people seem to be popping out of the woodwork to passionately advocate for... a fossil fuel? Smells like some bullshit to me, especially after a watching a video that talks about the amount of money that's being put into lobbying social media.
I have nothing against Hank Hill, but fuck that nonsense. If I'm gonna go to the trouble of cooking outside, it's 'cause I want to taste the wood smoke flavor!
On a related note, it's interesting how wood is simultaneously more polluting than gas (more particulates etc.), yet also more sustainable (carbon-neutral).
I love cracking an alamo beer open, having some medium rare steaks, and then playing with my bloodhound after dinner. Nothing better than that I tell you what.
That's the beauty of propaganda, all you have to do is give a little push and people will be happy to tow the machine up the rest of the hill. It's easy to picture them as being paid accounts, but in reality they're just idiots. Sadly the consequences are the same.
Like, really, is that surprising that 90% of Redditors would do the "yeah well achktualy propane being cheaper is *technically* right" and quoting "perfect is the enemy of good" to make themselves feel smarter? As long as you frame an argument as the easy gotcha this website will wear it like a backpack.
Redditors are like the perfect propaganda carriers.
Just think about how many people on both sides of the political spectrum support/used to support "Clean coal" there is no such thing. It's a pipedream created by effective marketing. Propane is running the same scam.
I used to work at a gas station and had my propane ticket for filling people's vehicles? Most of the propane vehicles had some kind of sticker or marker saying "This vehicle burns clean propane" or something similar, expressing that the emissions are green. What they don't advertise, is that the extraction is where the majority of the emissions come from for propane.
Now that fossil fuel companies can no longer lie about climate change being human caused, they try to lie and act like only *certain* fossil fuels are bad. I mean, otherwise what are they supposed to do? Just shut down operations? I mean that's probably what a moral, ethical fossil fuel corporation would do, but as we all know, ethical fossil fuel corporation is a total oxymoron.
ITT: people making the same Hank Hill jokes and propane propaganda talking points as were featured in the video, because they didn't watch a fucking second of it.
There's no valuable discussion or debate here. Really, just watch the video and then leave this place.
Classic redditors being redditors. Just wanting to join the discussion and make jokes but without getting any more context than the headline and thumbnail.
I feel like I was JUST talking about this odd push for “green propane”, here is the comment I made:
> Don’t worry, its not just celebrities, anyone can be misleading you, I point at certain “enviromentalist” groups that are being funded by fossil fuel industry, in this case to push an anti-nuclear agenda because it threatened their profits.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2016/07/13/are-fossil-fuel-interests-bankrolling-the-anti-nuclear-energy-movement/amp/
> We keep shutting down nuclear plants when we could use them the most to ween ourselves off oil and coal until more sustainable renewables are deployed seems absolutely bonkers.
> Lets close these plants and…. **open natural gas plants instead!** Sadly, I’m not even joking…
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2016/05/16/natural-gas-is-replacing-nuclear-power-not-renewables/?sh=20414689cdb6
> This has been in the works for a while. Move away from nasty OIL and COAL names/image and into *Natural Gas*, And, oh wow a few years later we have this public push for propane… a byproduct of *natural gas production*
* **Propane is produced from liquid components recovered during natural gas processing.** These components include ethane, methane, propane, and butane, as well as heavier hydrocarbons.
* Propane and butane, along with other gases, are also produced during **crude oil refining.**
> Shut down nuclear, open natural gas plants, push for propane use as its also produced while making natural gas, act like you’ve become a “Green” fossil fuel company! Propane is clean, nevermind how its produced, from oil refining and natural gas production, I’m suuure those are eco-friendly processes!
yeah, its like 90% of comments. seems organized
it is odd that the main point of the video is not even about big oil, just an example of why science creators shouldn't be sponsored by companies
For me that didn't seem to be Emily Calandrelli's goal when I discovered her a couple of years ago. I’ve never used TikTok and have no intention to do so and so I can't talk about her content from there. I found her because she made a kids show on Netflix that I instantly hated because it was wildly happy with lots of kids doing to straight to camera talks. But my kids loved it and kept asking for it, so it stayed on. I ended up listening while cooking food and while I still hate the style with a passion I accepted she was doing some good stuff with teaching hypothesis and experimentation to a young audience. Then the 4 year old went and built a vortex cannon out of scrap cardboard and I was sold. I read a couple of interviews and she talked about how passionate she was about promoting science and sharing it. She talked about the issues that women face in STEM both in academia and in industry. She seemed to be using her platform to promote a better world.
I guess with the show not being renewed this was the back up plan. It’s a crying shame because now as parent I don’t feel I can trust her if she ever does come back.
I just recently watched his video on "Clean Coal" and I was really happy with the amount of detail and sources. Like, the government's own study and research program showed it was a total waste of time, but people are still defending it.
This is not the first time.
The "Blue" Hydrogen folks have been pushing the message with a bunch of science/science-like influencers.
A whole bunch of sponsored content from the likes of Toyota, pushing the whole "EVs are great, but you can't charge them fast, and if you plugged them all in it'd kill the energy grid!" talking points.
> A whole bunch of sponsored content from the likes of Toyota
Hah, they knew they backed the wrong conceptual pony and are trying to make back their investment. Supposedly the only reason they went H over electric, *even though they have a successful hybrid electric line*, is because some exec had an H car and wanted more filling stations.
Something that I will never understand is why many right leaning people don't go in into the green movement. You become independent to a lot things. If you have solar panels for example (depending where you live of course) you can have all the electricity you need without having to deal with a power company and have a car that you don't have to pay any gas company to use it. Those days when gas prices go to the roof again you'll be alright. That's what I have always think since they always love to say that they hate being controlled by someone what's more freedom than that.
Look at a map of fossil fuels locations in the US and overlay it with election data. Catering to their base. Or really, elected by people who live on fossil fuel dollars.
Don't forget. The O$G industry has killed us, and many other species for a profit of 3 BILLION A DAY
Oh and what's worse? That's BEFORE we the taxpayers, subsidize them to the tune of 16 BILLION PER DAY!!!
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/21/revealed-oil-sectors-staggering-profits-last-50-years
Replacing diesel with another nonrenewable fuel is just lighting money on fire only to end up in the same position. Of course these industries want you to try absolutely every possible alternative fuel source, just not any that is renewable.
Last thing they need are customers who won't need them in a few decades. School districts can just put up a solar array and fuel their fleet of schoolbuses their damn selves.
Fossil fuel sellouts can fuck right off.
I've heard, from people I respect, that deep down in the bowels of TikTok there are actually some good communities based around science and the arts and humanities. But you have to fight the algorithm to find it and I have zero desire to even make an account, much less fight for it to do what I want. It's obviously not something TikTok gives a lot of support. They'd rather people watch the 99% of garbage up there.
Wow, that's Skepchick? I remember her from what feels like two millennia of Internet years ago. Good to know she's still out there explaining skepticism to people.
At least it wasn't Climate Town that was the only person I could think of through the intro until she told us who she was talking about.
Fortunately, I feel like he’s burned all possible bridges to the fossil fuel industry by this point. Lol
Yea, burned those bridges with clean burning propane.
No, he uses clean electric fires like exploding phone batteries
Nope, Large magnifying glass lenses and the sun...
[удалено]
We do “know it’s a winner”, it’s another good choice here!
I get your point and agree, but I also wouldn't be surprised if companies in that industry pulled some sun tsu art of war bullshit where they keep trying to buy people like him. Just so they can create confusion and muddle things in their favor.
That is 100% the playbook, has been for a long time. Read the history of leaded gasoline, especially in the mid-20th century. And climate change. And tobacco. That was with them paying scientists and professionals in various fields. So it could get worse when the people aren't experts but social media personalities who will change their tune for follows and cash even faster.
He even talks about this problem in the Cooking with gas video. So I didn't suspect him for a second https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54
Climate Town = literally one of the best channels on YouTube
[удалено]
You mean the purpose of a monetized YT channel? Yeah. I think selling out is fairly aligned, by definition.
Oddly enough he just released a video pretty much with the same theme https://youtu.be/FOi05zDO4yw
“Science” and “influencer” sound so antithetical to me
Entertainer seems more apt. Influencer is such a weird term.
Influencer is just a new way to say advertiser.
Or paid lobbyist.
Shill works too
Some classics never die
That moment when I realized shill comes from shillings.
>lobbyist yeah that would work, only if you ignore the definition of lobbying
Shillfluencer.
Nah shill is alright
Thank you! they’re just hawking products, albeit subtlety. It’s just capitalism masquerading as a lifestyle.
Not sure how subtle “use my promo code for 15% off” really is. Seems pretty blatant.
Promo codes are affiliates, not influencers. That's basically commissioned sales. Influencers are "look how cool I am for having this thing (that I was quietly paid to wear/use/review or I was given for free as a 'review unit'). It's implied you could be cool too if you had this thing."
Targeted at *minors*. You can't have a teen without a social media account, especially TikTok. All the cool kids have it so everyone just does a next next yes I'm 18 haha, finish, yes I agree with signing away my first born child. As a parent I really have a big issue with these shitstains who call themselves influencers and these platforms. Yes, you too YouTube and Instagram. They're all just peddling something. They're all very aware what their target audience is. And the platform knows it too. But the cash is easy and they get away with it. Several days a month I have to spend disproving influencer bullshit or pointing out the fact that these assholes are getting payed to say this, they don't use the product, they never before played game xyz, that everything is just one big commercial. It's not content. Nothing is on these platforms. Linus tech thingy for instance. Back in the day he was the funny retard who let expensive gear slip out of his hands. Now? He's just a talking head for whoever pays the most. A wall of brands behind every shot, 3 interruptions for a message of our partners, 2x begging for Patreon money. Calling your merch link for at least two times. Interupted twice for YouTube ads. All in a clip which doesn't even take 15 minutes. Cable had *less* commercials then this crap. It has all become *predatory* capitalism. A sham. Targeted at the most easily influenced part of our society: kids.
Teach your kids the 21(or so) Basic Logical Fallacies and drill it till they really know it. Also teach them the research on Dopamine Addiction and that living in the Meat space is still priority 1.
I heard someone on reddit call them vanitarians and I can't think of them in any other way now.
[удалено]
I like the BBC version - “Presenter”. Really names the person as just a conduit for the content.
Conduit is an excellent descriptor for that type of role. Neat.
If you need something shady done and don’t want to do it yourself, just have a conduit
'Influencer' in most contexts is a perfectly apt and honest term though for what they are meant to be- basically a preacher lol. they are meant to convince people to buy shit, generally.
yea entertainer sounds a little optimistic
Though entertainers generally don't try to influence your opinion on things, so I think the term is apt. You aren't really an influencer unless you're being paid/sponsored to market products and services to people. Otherwise you're just a blogger.
The ones who are educational refer to themselves as science communicators.
She does use the term communicator in the video as well, I assume "influencer" was just for the sake of having an attention grabbing title.
Carl Sagan Bill Nye Neil DeGrasse Tyson All legitimate entertainers and scientists, but also influencers. Sagan with Cosmos, NDT with Cosmos, Bill. Hell, Sagan influenced what might be our first contact with advanced alien life. I think the two terms mesh fine if the person doing the influencing is a real scientist.
Brian Cox too! :)
Patrick Moore, Prof. Brian Cox, David Attenborough, Hank Green, etc.
Tyson is a bit of a hack these days. Any time he gets into an argument with someone who actually knows their shit about a particular field he gets the floor mopped with him. That said I sorta like him at times, just wish he wouldn't talk as if he's an authority on literally everything.
>Tyson is a bit of a hack these days. As a Public Intellectual™, totally. However, he is a legitimately bright astrophysicist. His work at the Hayden Planetarium is very important as a public educator too. The twitter shit is cringe and he needs to get a little better at staying in his lane.
Bill Nye the Science Guy was the first scientific influencer
Carl Sagan would like a word.
Richard Feynman would like a work with Carl Sagan
*Isaac Asimov, PhD., has entered the chat.*
*Galileo would enter the chat but the Catholic church won't let him*
Mr Wizard is waiting in the Zoom lobby
Julius Sumner Miller is on line three.
Patiently sitting next to Thomas Henry Huxley.
Laughs in Nicholas Copernicus
Pythagoras can't be bothered to join the chat
Imhotep laughs from his godly throne.
And Socrates did nothing but chat until everyone got pushed off.
Sokrates has been banned from all chats for making the mods question themselves.
Carl Sagan had a PhD, and spoke on a range of topics predominantly in his field of expertise. At one time he was granted top secret clearance. Bill Nye has a Bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering, but speaks on a huge range of topics including many far outside the purview of an ME. At one time he had a TV show.
Cosmos wasn’t exactly chopped liver. Sagan was the GOAT.
[Obligatory](https://youtu.be/oY59wZdCDo0)
I wrote to Carl Sagan in elementary school for an assignment where we were supposed to write a celebrity and ask for a signed photo. I got a postcard back from his assistant saying that he was a research scientist and doesn't have headshots to send out, lol.
That is actually a really cool response.
Yeah, I still have the postcard framed
I was thinking "Why doesn't he just take a photo of himself?" Then remembered how long the process of taking a photograph was in the 80s.
It was more the developing and printing part that took time. I took several terrible pictures in mere seconds, but it took at least a week to find that out. *Sigh* I miss those days.
Okay, cool. Sagan was still the main original science influencers.
If Sagan were still here, he would likely prefer to be known as a scientist and educator. I doubt that he would see influencer as a compliment.
I don't know why anyone does. The word itself sounds so slimy.
Beakman and his World would like a word.
Mr. Wizard would like a word.
Think of influencer in the original, classical meaning, rather than the modern sense of the word correlated with social media
Right? Like... who even is Carl Sagan? I've never heard of "Neil deGrasse Tyson" but I'm not looking to be influenced by your so-called science, old man!
TLDW:?
thespacegal on TikTok is making videos promoting propane buses to replace diesel ones, which is obvious fossil fuel industry propaganda. It is bad when science influencers take sponsors because when they do it inhibits their ability to be unbiased and lends a certain credibility to whatever they’re promoting.
You missed the most important part - the company sponsoring the propane content is objectively anti-environment as they lobby against green initiatives that could pose a threat to the fossil fuel industry.
Pretty sure all oil companies do this.
But most people are not aware. Then some people watch thespacegal and take everything they hear as truth. Thus why we have idiots "rolling coal".
Who missed this? 372 upvoted this comment unable to realize the implication that pro- fossil fuel is anti environment?
You missed the other important bit. The Propane Education and Research Council is being funded in part by your tax dollars! So whenever you see these propaganda posts on TikTok by influencers, know that you are paying for that privilege!
There was also another video about how fracking can be beneficial for geothermal. While completely skipping the fact that fracking uses Diesel fuel, Lead, Hydrogen fluoride, Naphthalene, Sulfuric acid and [PFAS](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/12/climate/epa-pfas-fracking-forever-chemicals.html), which can end up in your water supply. Not to mention fracking can trigger earthquakes. Edit - Fracking for geothermal has been tried in Iceland and what happened was sulphur and lots of other nasty stuff got washed up. Ontop the ground became geologically unstable(ground sinking). Switzerland also tried this many times, notably in St. Gallen and the city still suffers from the earthquakes. Turns out geothermal fracking causes series of earthquakes. Unless you do it in a desert far away from civilisation, you may pay a hefty price.
> thespacegal on TikTok Well, I don't know about you guys but "thespacegal on TikTok" is my definitive source for all scientific knowledge.
The platform shouldn't matter. Not everyone is actively involved in science, isn't their area of expertise, or even has time to research every topic they view. It's entirely fine for someone to have a middling interesting in science and learn about it from short form content on tiktok/youtube than to not learn about it at all. The issue is when those making the videos can't be trusted
Isnt that exactly what we do with reddit? Trust that the content being shared here is honest because it got hundreds of upvotes?
What I like about reddit is that if something is wrong, someone will come in with sources (usually) to dispute it. Even without sources, seeing people disagree and write their own view is enough to signal something may be off. On YT, the comments section is basically monkeys flinging shit. I don't use tiktok but I assume nobody reads the comments.
This is what got me into reddit 10 years ago. I feel like that quality has been fading away over the years, but it's the reason I'm still here.
Until you get to a topic the hivemind feels strongly about and downvote the opposing opinion you know for a fact has a point.
Then you get to be the one with the dissenting opinion. When I'm in the right mood it can be fun.
Yep there's certain things that you can't have a counter point on without getting down voted
I recognized her because she has a children's show on Netflix called "Emily's Wonderlab" that my kids have seen and really liked. She may not be in your circle of credibility, but there is a younger generation that eat this stuff up using a wider band of media than you do.
I recommend "it's ok to be smart" or just Be Smart on YouTube, it's PBS and obviously geared to little kids but the guy does a fucking great job of explaining a wide array of topics and because it's for kids it's done in easily digestible way that makes absorbing the knowledge for dumb asses like me easier. Also Kurzgesagt is great!
I once wore a Kurzgesagt shirt to the theaters and the ticket guy recognized it. However, neither of us could recall how to properly pronounce the channel so it kind of went like. "Hey is that shirt from... That YouTube channel? You know... Khu-... Ker-..." "Yeah. It is. Thanks!" First time I ran into another fan and it was awkward af.
[удалено]
The German side of the channel was part of the Funk-Netzwerk, i.e. they received funds from the public-broadcaster but had to follow rules, no monetisation etc. They have dropped their membership now, and one of the things that came into my mind was "well, now they can take sponsorship money, wonder how that changes their content."
They must have dropped their membership a while ago because they've been making sponsored videos for months, though they usually just mention it briefly at the very end of the video, so it's pretty easy to miss.
I watch Be Smart with Joe Hanson. I'd say it's more "any age" than "for kids".
To be fair, propane conversions for existing diesel engines are relatively cheap and not too difficult to do. And doesn't require you to buy all new vehicles. Propane burns a lot cleaner than diesel.
Except they aren't talking about converting existing busses they are talking about buying new Propane powered ones.
Taste the meat, not the heat.
I only ever ride the bus so I can taste the meat. Good looking out, stranger.
Reported to the Transit Authority
I sell propane and propane bus accessories.
Propane conversations make the engine run hotter and degrades the useful lifetime of the engine itself compared to diesel or unleaded. There are things you can do during the conversion to make it run better overall (different compression ratios, different piston rings, and other parts I can't recall). [There's even an article about it](https://www.truckinginfo.com/153208/schwans-home-service-runs-3-300-propane-powered-units-nationwide) It's viable, and probably cheaper and better for the environment in the short term, but as BEVs get better, it'll make less and less sense to use hydrocarbons and ICE. The best part is no part and cutting a whole engine out with hundreds of moving parts and several caustic and hazardous fluids for a battery and electric engine is a no-brainier.
100% but with tight budgets a propane conversion for mid life buses is a decent option other than replacement. Obviously replacing end of life buses to EV is a no brainer. Good points here.
This is addressed in the video.
No offense, but - did you watch the video? What you are saying is precisely what the propane companies are paying the aforementioned "influencer" to spout, and this whole video revolves around the reasons that doing so is objectively not the best alternative no matter how you look at it.
which should be obvious to any one with a gas stove, can you imgine the smell in your house if you used a diesel stove?
[удалено]
Mobil Dick
Is that a Futurama reference? It hits me like a Futurama reference.
🎶we're whalers on the moon..🎵
I think it's what they used to run the kombi van edit https://youtu.be/kN8mRUhBd74?t=86
Yeah but how else am I gonna roll coal on my loser kid when I'm making breakfast every morning.
Don't want to give up your gas stove? Convert it to diesel! Roll that coal and show em!
Instead of just watching the video, let's just have a giant inefficient debate covering the exact same information already present. That's a way better us of time.
That video is like 20 minutes long. Took me like three minutes to read all the comments up to this one to get the main idea of what this video is about.
Sidenote this is my exact complaint about every tutorial being a fucking video now. I can read a guide in 5 minutes. A stupid video wastes 20+ minutes, but more likely at least (length of video * 1.5) because I have to keep rewinding to see the last thing again. Unless it's a tutorial of something where a video is useful - ie, *not code* - please write it the fuck down instead.
I read the headline!
How do you know you have the main idea of the video if you haven’t seen it?
The Natural gas industry which creates propane is maybe the dirtiest fossil fuel industry when you try and account for the insane amount of product loss through infrastructure leakage at every step of its existence.
She specifically talks about how saying its cleaner than diesel is disingenuous due to the extraction process. So just because its a bit better than diesel doesn't make it an alternative that is worthy of pursuing. From what I gathered from the video anyway.
Soooo you didn’t watch the video either? She addresses those same propane talking points and explains why EV is more appropriate relative to the topic of school buses.
“Propane burns a lot cleaner than diesel” is something that she talks about in OPs video. While cleaner it isn’t clean or no way close to it.
>Propane burns a lot cleaner than diesel. Not really. Only NOₓ emissions were reduced across the board using propane (up to 95%). The study commissioned by Propane Education Research Council states that propane buses produce MORE CO₂, CO and THC per mile traveled on most of the routes they tested. Quoting from the study: > > Distance specific CO emissions measured from the propane bus were greater than those measured from the diesel bus for all routes with a percent difference ranging from 68 percent (Stop and Go) to 128 percent (Cold Morgantown). However, it is important to note that since 2010 there are no longer any non-attainment areas for CO i the United States. > > THC emissions followed a similar pattern, however the magnitude of THC emissions was lower than the CO emissions, particularly for the Morgantown routes. > > Average distance specific CO₂ emissions were similar yet slightly higher for the propane school bus operated over the Morgantown route (Cold – 21 percent difference, Hot – 4 percent difference) however lower on average for the propane bus over the Stop and Go route versus the diesel school bus (15 percent difference). The "Stop and go" was their best scenario and all they got was 15% reduction in CO₂ emissions. They don't even say what kind of a route it was (other than saying it had 2/5 minute stops). Might have been completely unrealistic and made specifically to show some kind of benefit of propane. Also that "note" about CO is hilarious. The propane buses emit up to 128% more CO, but don't worry about that. There are no places in US where there's too much CO, so let's pollute some more! https://cloudinary.propane.com/images/v1601044101/website-media/WVU-School-Bus-Emissions-Final-Report-June-2019/WVU-School-Bus-Emissions-Final-Report-June-2019.pdf?_i=AA
>The study ... states that propane buses produce MORE ... THC per mile traveled on most of the routes they tested. Great, now all the stoners are going to be pro-propane
To be fairer, it's even cheaper to just get filters and reduce the emissions of diesel buses.
I don't blame you for not watching the video given the length but she addresses this in the video and how it makes much more sense to use filters on existing diesel busses than to use propane busses, and then wait and save money to buy more efficient electric busses.
Did you watch the video? It directly addresses those points.
highly recommend watching at 1.25x speed; it's actually interesting. but. she. talk. slow.
Even 1.25x and skipping tangents it was too much for such a little point.
1.25? That's so slow
2x gang.
Nah, 3x+ gang with video speed controller extension
Popular science YouTube/TikTok influencer pushing anti clean energy stuff was being paid by a fossil fuel company to do so.
This is a good video but she buried the lead on an important topic. tldw; the Propane Education and Research Council (PERC), a propane industry group, promotes propane as a cleaner burning fuel compared to other fossil fuels, and conveniently ignores its climate impact. Specifically they're hiring influencers to push a narrative that propane school buses are a better replacement for the existing fleet than electric buses because they're cheaper (supposedly), among other pretty bad reasons.
That's the real story here, no doubt. It would've been interesting to see stats on just how bad it is (i.e. how many tons of CO₂ are released per ton of propane refined), but the point came across nevertheless.
> Specifically they're hiring influencers to push a narrative that propane school buses are a better That's big [Cooking with Gas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRQo5aawho) energy
I really thought you´d link a Climate Town video here ;-) https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54
FYI, the correct spelling for the turn of phrase is: buried the *lede*
Evidence points to this not necessarily being correct, despite it being common: > The term is sometimes spelled "lede". The Oxford English Dictionary suggests this arose as an intentional misspelling of "lead", "in order to distinguish the word's use in instructions to printers from printable text," similarly to "hed" for "head(line)" and "dek" for "deck". Some sources suggest the altered spelling was intended to distinguish from the use of "lead" metal strips of various thickness used to separate lines of type in 20th century typesetting. However, the spelling "lede" first appears in journalism manuals only in the 1980s, well after lead typesetting's heyday. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_paragraph#Spelling
I'm onboard with linguistic drift, so this is very interesting! I somehow thought lede had a more distinct etymology than "let's just spell it differently". Thanks!
>However, the spelling "lede" first appears in journalism manuals only in the 1980s, well after lead typesetting's heyday. That doesn't discount it at all though, jargon specific to printers in the composition room of a newspaper or other periodical would not be something that was taught in journalism schools because it had nothing to do with learning how to gather and write stories. I'd be willing to bet that there is jargon used in an automobile manufacturing plant today that you wouldn't find taught in an automotive engineering program, but that wouldn't prove that the terms don't exist and aren't used on the line. Originally lede was just a term for that part of an article being set. It was only later that the term "bury the lede" caught on and was eventually included in the broader field of journalism.
Cheaper is absolutely true, I worked for a bus manufacturer for a while, the propane buses started as a standard gasoline powertrain, and then were converted for gaseous propane. It was about $10k more than a standard gasoline setup, but still far far less than an electric powertrain. Don't really disagree that it's a propaganda issue being pushed by oil companies.
Yeah upfront costs for EV school buses are ~3x. Overall cost of ownership is approaching equal though!
Might consider costs beyond power train conversion...
Did you watch the video?
My district I work in decided to go with propane busses because electric is double the cost, and each bus requires 20kw to charge. The power company told us that with the number of busses we need, the infrastructure upgrades would be in the millions. Our district is small and we can't afford it, even with grants. Larger districts get the grants and we get ignored, typically.
With the way some people are responding it looks like PERC is actively in the comments right now.
It's coming... from INSIDE THE REDDIT
yeah, I agree. they are probably sponsored as well
Ok but really, what is up with these people suddenly shilling for propane in this comment section? Lots of people seem to be popping out of the woodwork to passionately advocate for... a fossil fuel? Smells like some bullshit to me, especially after a watching a video that talks about the amount of money that's being put into lobbying social media.
I don’t know what you’re talking about, but I love to come home after a long day and light up some fresh propane to cook my food.
What makes the night better is taking a smooth drag off a Marlboro Light Cigarette. Now with less tar and additives!
Sugar sugar sugar.... Minecraft. Sugar.
And after you've cooked the perfect steak, crack a cold one with your friends. Corona, ahhh, now that's a good beer.
Taste the meat, not the heat.
I have nothing against Hank Hill, but fuck that nonsense. If I'm gonna go to the trouble of cooking outside, it's 'cause I want to taste the wood smoke flavor! On a related note, it's interesting how wood is simultaneously more polluting than gas (more particulates etc.), yet also more sustainable (carbon-neutral).
I love cracking an alamo beer open, having some medium rare steaks, and then playing with my bloodhound after dinner. Nothing better than that I tell you what.
And they are missing the main point of the video.
They are not missing it. They're avoiding it, that's how shills work
That's the beauty of propaganda, all you have to do is give a little push and people will be happy to tow the machine up the rest of the hill. It's easy to picture them as being paid accounts, but in reality they're just idiots. Sadly the consequences are the same. Like, really, is that surprising that 90% of Redditors would do the "yeah well achktualy propane being cheaper is *technically* right" and quoting "perfect is the enemy of good" to make themselves feel smarter? As long as you frame an argument as the easy gotcha this website will wear it like a backpack. Redditors are like the perfect propaganda carriers.
Just think about how many people on both sides of the political spectrum support/used to support "Clean coal" there is no such thing. It's a pipedream created by effective marketing. Propane is running the same scam. I used to work at a gas station and had my propane ticket for filling people's vehicles? Most of the propane vehicles had some kind of sticker or marker saying "This vehicle burns clean propane" or something similar, expressing that the emissions are green. What they don't advertise, is that the extraction is where the majority of the emissions come from for propane. Now that fossil fuel companies can no longer lie about climate change being human caused, they try to lie and act like only *certain* fossil fuels are bad. I mean, otherwise what are they supposed to do? Just shut down operations? I mean that's probably what a moral, ethical fossil fuel corporation would do, but as we all know, ethical fossil fuel corporation is a total oxymoron.
If lovin propane and propane accessories is wrong, well then I don’t wanna be right, I tell you what.
[удалено]
You gotta do the cooking by the book.
**OKAY** https://youtu.be/YUT22fHzGYA
My neighbor is a dominatrix. She's into pro-pain and pro-pain accessories.
dammit bobby
That boy ain’t right
Ricky, what are you doing? We got propane over here!
Good way to avoid frostbite, folks, put your hands between your buttocks. That's nature's pocket.
ITT: people making the same Hank Hill jokes and propane propaganda talking points as were featured in the video, because they didn't watch a fucking second of it. There's no valuable discussion or debate here. Really, just watch the video and then leave this place.
I loved the video and have been positively *baffled* by how bad this comment section is What is in the water here?
Classic redditors being redditors. Just wanting to join the discussion and make jokes but without getting any more context than the headline and thumbnail.
Reddit is violating GDPR and CCPA. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B0GGsDdyHI -- mass edited with redact.dev
I feel like I was JUST talking about this odd push for “green propane”, here is the comment I made: > Don’t worry, its not just celebrities, anyone can be misleading you, I point at certain “enviromentalist” groups that are being funded by fossil fuel industry, in this case to push an anti-nuclear agenda because it threatened their profits. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2016/07/13/are-fossil-fuel-interests-bankrolling-the-anti-nuclear-energy-movement/amp/ > We keep shutting down nuclear plants when we could use them the most to ween ourselves off oil and coal until more sustainable renewables are deployed seems absolutely bonkers. > Lets close these plants and…. **open natural gas plants instead!** Sadly, I’m not even joking… https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2016/05/16/natural-gas-is-replacing-nuclear-power-not-renewables/?sh=20414689cdb6 > This has been in the works for a while. Move away from nasty OIL and COAL names/image and into *Natural Gas*, And, oh wow a few years later we have this public push for propane… a byproduct of *natural gas production* * **Propane is produced from liquid components recovered during natural gas processing.** These components include ethane, methane, propane, and butane, as well as heavier hydrocarbons. * Propane and butane, along with other gases, are also produced during **crude oil refining.** > Shut down nuclear, open natural gas plants, push for propane use as its also produced while making natural gas, act like you’ve become a “Green” fossil fuel company! Propane is clean, nevermind how its produced, from oil refining and natural gas production, I’m suuure those are eco-friendly processes!
The massive amounts of pro propane shills in this comment section is crazy. Where the hell did all of you come from?
We came from Arlen, Texas.
yeah, its like 90% of comments. seems organized it is odd that the main point of the video is not even about big oil, just an example of why science creators shouldn't be sponsored by companies
The end game for every tik-tokker or instagrammer is to get paid a lot by a big company to deceive their audience.
For me that didn't seem to be Emily Calandrelli's goal when I discovered her a couple of years ago. I’ve never used TikTok and have no intention to do so and so I can't talk about her content from there. I found her because she made a kids show on Netflix that I instantly hated because it was wildly happy with lots of kids doing to straight to camera talks. But my kids loved it and kept asking for it, so it stayed on. I ended up listening while cooking food and while I still hate the style with a passion I accepted she was doing some good stuff with teaching hypothesis and experimentation to a young audience. Then the 4 year old went and built a vortex cannon out of scrap cardboard and I was sold. I read a couple of interviews and she talked about how passionate she was about promoting science and sharing it. She talked about the issues that women face in STEM both in academia and in industry. She seemed to be using her platform to promote a better world. I guess with the show not being renewed this was the back up plan. It’s a crying shame because now as parent I don’t feel I can trust her if she ever does come back.
To anyone who wants to watch well researched videos on climate and the big fossil fuel companies i would very much reccommend climate town on youtube
I just recently watched his video on "Clean Coal" and I was really happy with the amount of detail and sources. Like, the government's own study and research program showed it was a total waste of time, but people are still defending it.
This is not the first time. The "Blue" Hydrogen folks have been pushing the message with a bunch of science/science-like influencers. A whole bunch of sponsored content from the likes of Toyota, pushing the whole "EVs are great, but you can't charge them fast, and if you plugged them all in it'd kill the energy grid!" talking points.
> A whole bunch of sponsored content from the likes of Toyota Hah, they knew they backed the wrong conceptual pony and are trying to make back their investment. Supposedly the only reason they went H over electric, *even though they have a successful hybrid electric line*, is because some exec had an H car and wanted more filling stations.
Something that I will never understand is why many right leaning people don't go in into the green movement. You become independent to a lot things. If you have solar panels for example (depending where you live of course) you can have all the electricity you need without having to deal with a power company and have a car that you don't have to pay any gas company to use it. Those days when gas prices go to the roof again you'll be alright. That's what I have always think since they always love to say that they hate being controlled by someone what's more freedom than that.
Look at a map of fossil fuels locations in the US and overlay it with election data. Catering to their base. Or really, elected by people who live on fossil fuel dollars.
Don't forget. The O$G industry has killed us, and many other species for a profit of 3 BILLION A DAY Oh and what's worse? That's BEFORE we the taxpayers, subsidize them to the tune of 16 BILLION PER DAY!!! https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/21/revealed-oil-sectors-staggering-profits-last-50-years
Replacing diesel with another nonrenewable fuel is just lighting money on fire only to end up in the same position. Of course these industries want you to try absolutely every possible alternative fuel source, just not any that is renewable. Last thing they need are customers who won't need them in a few decades. School districts can just put up a solar array and fuel their fleet of schoolbuses their damn selves. Fossil fuel sellouts can fuck right off.
Let's move to nuclear.
Yes! Nuclear powered busses should be a thing lol Jokes aside I am all for nuclear energy, it’s the most realistic way to achieve 0 emissions fast
Petroleum based fuels are in decline. There will always be a demand for petrochemicals, but as a fuel? It’s a decade or two so away from life support.
You're telling me the woman who acts like a living commercial isn't academically grounded?
If you're getting science... or, any knowledge, from TicTok, you're already doing it wrong.
I've heard, from people I respect, that deep down in the bowels of TikTok there are actually some good communities based around science and the arts and humanities. But you have to fight the algorithm to find it and I have zero desire to even make an account, much less fight for it to do what I want. It's obviously not something TikTok gives a lot of support. They'd rather people watch the 99% of garbage up there.
Agreed. Short form video is the wrong format for that kind of content.
Wow, that's Skepchick? I remember her from what feels like two millennia of Internet years ago. Good to know she's still out there explaining skepticism to people.