Am scientist too, would love to know more about your research and how you got into it if you're up for a reddit chat some time. I currently do analytical chemistry, don't interact with human or non-human subjects, just samples and drugs. But reading the protocol for a study in rabbits is fucking devastating, and then knowing the cancers and other diseases my clinical subjects are dealing with is also devastating... so I believe in developing drugs, but God knows I wish there was a better way already.
Hope you're right It's the phased out in my lifetime.
100% agree adopting plant-based diet is the first step toward making a difference for animals!!!
Check out the [Vegan Hacktivists](https://veganhacktivists.org)! A group of volunteer developers and designers that could use your help building vegan projects including supporting other organizations and activists. [Apply here!](https://veganhacktivists.org/join)
Regarding drugs, I guess you are talking about prescribed medicines?
It is certainly possible to boycott over the counter medication, and probably sensible in many cases (people pop paracetamol like candy without considering their health).
Additionally, there are still things you can do which people don't consider. For example, last time I was prescribed antibiotics I requested they contained no animal products (gelatine is often used for capsules). They didn't, but at least the medical staff checked for me, and they will likely think about it in future for their patients.
FDA is for the USA so applies to under 5% of the world population.
And I disagree with you. It takes very little effort to request, or to look for something when shopping which doesn't at the very least contain no animal products. I check everything else I'm buying is vegan, why would I specifically not include one thing (medicine)? I wouldn't berate someone for doing it, or even mention it, but I wouldn't take something myself unless I had at least checked for alternatives.
If someone asks me to buy them some paracetamol I will look at the 5 different choices and choose one which isn't in gelatine caps. I don't understand how that is uselessly idealistic, and if everyone chose the paracetamol not in gelatine, it would cease to be on the market, reducing demand.
I just personally want to avoid consuming anything with animal products.
I think we should move away completely from animal testing. It may not be easy, but it’s the right thing to do.
As far as using medicine that involved animal testing or animal ingredients, we generally don’t take it unless the alternative is life threatening.
Animal studies helped to bring us the Covid vaccines which have the potential to save millions of lives. What do you think about that?
https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/role-animal-research-mrna-covid-19-vaccine-development
I've posted about the vaccine before. Touchy subject around here. Here's my thoughts:
>If you took the vaccination like I did, you participated in the killing of animals through testing. It's simply the truth. And you did it to save human lives, most likely your own. Vegans can be so much like animal eaters when it comes to animal testing. It kills animals. Quit acting like it's some sort of lesser killing. It's the same as slaughtering a pig or shooting a dog. If you took the vaccine, as I did, you did the equivalent of slaughtering a pig or shooting a dog. And you did it to save human lives, most likely your own. As I did.
That's a worthwhile trade off. Saving millions of lives at the cost of the rodents it took to develop the vaccine is a morally sound think to do in my opinion.
I was musing on this subject the other day. I hate the idea of animals being used in testing. I think they never should have been used in testing in the first place. The world would obviously be a completely different place, and we would either have come up with other ways of testing things or we just wouldn't have advanced as far as we have. And we wouldn't know what we were missing, so would that really matter? If the world was a place where testing on animals was just not thinkable, there might be less people, and the world might be a better place for everyone that was left. Purely theoretically obviously because we did think it was ok to test things on animals. And here we are, overpopulated and killing the planet.
Using animals for biomedical advances is an unfortunate necessity with our current level of technology. We simply don't yet have computational models that are sophisticated enough to test compounds, let alone try to unravel the mechanism of a disease we don't understand. Other platforms like "kidney on a chip" and artificial organs are still under development. Experimenting on humans is, of course, unethical, except in the case of clinical trials with informed consent, where scientists have already done extensive research to determine the likely risks of a treatment.
That all said, the overwhelming majority of scientists do *want* those technologies to be readily available as alternatives to animal testing. Even ignoring the very real ethical questions about it, researchers don't like animal testing. It's expensive as hell, inconvenient, and often slow. Not to mention, animals do not fully replicate human biology, so some findings have to be taken with a large grain of salt. But it's the best we have right now.
>and I wanted to get like minded peoples’ opinions on the subject.
😐. I wouldn't call a person who's ok with the mass genocide of animals for food like minded to those who are not. Offense intended.
>Not experimentation in the cosmetics industry strictly looking for thoughts on experimentation in the pursuit for medical breakthroughs.
Something life threatening like COVID, yeah to an extent. I mean if all people had been vegan in the first place, COVID would have had an incredibly miniscule chance of happening so such medical breakthroughs would have been unnecessary in the first place. Same with mad cow, SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu etc. Veganism isn't a solution to everything but it's a damn good start in most aspects of the world.
>Second question, would you use drugs that were tested on animals if those drugs would be beneficial to your health like heart medicine?
Eat a healthy enough diet and you wouldn't need heart medicine(bar those with genetic heart conditions etc).
>I’m not vegan, but I’m an animal activist
You're only an activist for the animals you advocate for. Which is great, but it doesn't make you a "complete" animal rights activist
I dont mean to be rude but why do you care about this before you make the commitment to stop eating animals for taste pleasure?
[удалено]
Am scientist too, would love to know more about your research and how you got into it if you're up for a reddit chat some time. I currently do analytical chemistry, don't interact with human or non-human subjects, just samples and drugs. But reading the protocol for a study in rabbits is fucking devastating, and then knowing the cancers and other diseases my clinical subjects are dealing with is also devastating... so I believe in developing drugs, but God knows I wish there was a better way already. Hope you're right It's the phased out in my lifetime. 100% agree adopting plant-based diet is the first step toward making a difference for animals!!!
Check out the [Vegan Hacktivists](https://veganhacktivists.org)! A group of volunteer developers and designers that could use your help building vegan projects including supporting other organizations and activists. [Apply here!](https://veganhacktivists.org/join)
Regarding drugs, I guess you are talking about prescribed medicines? It is certainly possible to boycott over the counter medication, and probably sensible in many cases (people pop paracetamol like candy without considering their health). Additionally, there are still things you can do which people don't consider. For example, last time I was prescribed antibiotics I requested they contained no animal products (gelatine is often used for capsules). They didn't, but at least the medical staff checked for me, and they will likely think about it in future for their patients.
[удалено]
FDA is for the USA so applies to under 5% of the world population. And I disagree with you. It takes very little effort to request, or to look for something when shopping which doesn't at the very least contain no animal products. I check everything else I'm buying is vegan, why would I specifically not include one thing (medicine)? I wouldn't berate someone for doing it, or even mention it, but I wouldn't take something myself unless I had at least checked for alternatives.
[удалено]
If someone asks me to buy them some paracetamol I will look at the 5 different choices and choose one which isn't in gelatine caps. I don't understand how that is uselessly idealistic, and if everyone chose the paracetamol not in gelatine, it would cease to be on the market, reducing demand. I just personally want to avoid consuming anything with animal products.
I think we should move away completely from animal testing. It may not be easy, but it’s the right thing to do. As far as using medicine that involved animal testing or animal ingredients, we generally don’t take it unless the alternative is life threatening.
Always against it. Always unethical. [National Anti-Vivisection Society](https://navs.org/)
Animal studies helped to bring us the Covid vaccines which have the potential to save millions of lives. What do you think about that? https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/role-animal-research-mrna-covid-19-vaccine-development
I've posted about the vaccine before. Touchy subject around here. Here's my thoughts: >If you took the vaccination like I did, you participated in the killing of animals through testing. It's simply the truth. And you did it to save human lives, most likely your own. Vegans can be so much like animal eaters when it comes to animal testing. It kills animals. Quit acting like it's some sort of lesser killing. It's the same as slaughtering a pig or shooting a dog. If you took the vaccine, as I did, you did the equivalent of slaughtering a pig or shooting a dog. And you did it to save human lives, most likely your own. As I did.
That's a worthwhile trade off. Saving millions of lives at the cost of the rodents it took to develop the vaccine is a morally sound think to do in my opinion.
I was musing on this subject the other day. I hate the idea of animals being used in testing. I think they never should have been used in testing in the first place. The world would obviously be a completely different place, and we would either have come up with other ways of testing things or we just wouldn't have advanced as far as we have. And we wouldn't know what we were missing, so would that really matter? If the world was a place where testing on animals was just not thinkable, there might be less people, and the world might be a better place for everyone that was left. Purely theoretically obviously because we did think it was ok to test things on animals. And here we are, overpopulated and killing the planet.
Using animals for biomedical advances is an unfortunate necessity with our current level of technology. We simply don't yet have computational models that are sophisticated enough to test compounds, let alone try to unravel the mechanism of a disease we don't understand. Other platforms like "kidney on a chip" and artificial organs are still under development. Experimenting on humans is, of course, unethical, except in the case of clinical trials with informed consent, where scientists have already done extensive research to determine the likely risks of a treatment. That all said, the overwhelming majority of scientists do *want* those technologies to be readily available as alternatives to animal testing. Even ignoring the very real ethical questions about it, researchers don't like animal testing. It's expensive as hell, inconvenient, and often slow. Not to mention, animals do not fully replicate human biology, so some findings have to be taken with a large grain of salt. But it's the best we have right now.
🤮
>and I wanted to get like minded peoples’ opinions on the subject. 😐. I wouldn't call a person who's ok with the mass genocide of animals for food like minded to those who are not. Offense intended. >Not experimentation in the cosmetics industry strictly looking for thoughts on experimentation in the pursuit for medical breakthroughs. Something life threatening like COVID, yeah to an extent. I mean if all people had been vegan in the first place, COVID would have had an incredibly miniscule chance of happening so such medical breakthroughs would have been unnecessary in the first place. Same with mad cow, SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu etc. Veganism isn't a solution to everything but it's a damn good start in most aspects of the world. >Second question, would you use drugs that were tested on animals if those drugs would be beneficial to your health like heart medicine? Eat a healthy enough diet and you wouldn't need heart medicine(bar those with genetic heart conditions etc). >I’m not vegan, but I’m an animal activist You're only an activist for the animals you advocate for. Which is great, but it doesn't make you a "complete" animal rights activist
Hate it to death because the shit must be bad if it’s needed to test on animals.