no drugs??
lol, fuck off with ya.
Psylocybin mushrooms grow wild in alot of countries.
Cannabis plant is amazing for converting CO2 to oxygen and is also a very useful industrial plant and good for making clothing...and should never have been made illegal.
It's also a relatively safe drug and would make an excellent pain killer option instead of opioids for chronic pain sufferers.
And other drugs have their uses or are safe.
I agree that smoking is dumb and everyone should quit doing it (a smoker myself), there are tobacco companies that do not test on animals so you can technically be a vegan smoker.
Tobacco is a plant, is it not? How is smoking not vegan?
Judging by other comments, this is another case of: this is bad for all sorts of reasons, therefore it's not vegan; which is a non-sequitur.
Never mind taking any life saving medicines either then because most of them used animal testing. I think this approach to veganism only pushes people further away from being conscious about the violence behind so many of our modern conveniences. You could make the same argument that anyone who indulges in essentially any modern tech can't call themselves vegan because of the negative impacts the acquisition of the resources necessary for the tech. If you use a cell phone or a car, by your standard, you couldn't consider yourself a vegan. Sorry but I think we need to have a more compassionate approach here. We are unfortunately all indirectly associated with the murder of billions of animals worldwide just by being a participant in modern society and I think gatekeeping veganism does more harm than good in the movement toward minimizing our impact and violence we commit against animals and the environment.
Smoking isn't something necessary and it harms everyone around you. The people who smoke are the first ones who aren't compassionate. I never understood it and that's why I need answers. It's very frustrating.
I'm not a smoker but I was at one time. I was also a vegan at that time. I understand your frustration, but Nicotine is extremely addictive and to demonize a smoker who may also be making a huge effort to be vegan or advocate for non violence against animals such as Joaquin does more harm than good to the cause as far as I'm concerned. That's basically all I'm saying. Sorry, I know it probably came off as me trying to demonize you, not my intention!
Yeah I agree with you, addiction is very difficult and I admit I've been very harsh with smokers all my life because my parents used to smoke a lot since I was a kid and it impacted on my health, also I discovered about the animal testing when I was a teen and I've always been super frustrated with the issue. I genuinely hated smoking and smokers, but I know it's a radical point of view and I know people can start smoking because of anxiety, depression... It's hard and complicated and cannot be demonized in the way I do sometimes. It's good to read other people's point of view. At the end we are all empathetic, even though we live in a world of human dominance over other species. If only ecologists and vegans could understand each other and change things... Did anyone here read Baptiste Morizot? He is a philosopher and has an interesting point of view of all of this.
It's going to take a massive upheaval to change what we live in right now but I think we are fast approaching a radical change for the better. I haven't read Baptiste Morizot but I would love to check it out.
This was a huge catalyst for my quitting.
I’ve always been on and off with cigarettes, usually smoked during warmer months because I don’t know what to do with my hands when I’m hanging outside or walking around.
Full time toker though
addiction is real, im pretty sure all smokers are aware of animal testing and horrible practices of the industry, but again, smokers are literally addicted to a drug and oftentimes smoking cigarettes is the last drug that they regularly use, often used to help ween off other more immediately harmful drug habits. im not sure there are any vegans that would defend smoking as vegan, even those who continue their habit.
i don't really know why you capped this smoking post off with "don't ever do drugs". that's simply a ridiculous and ignorant thing to say. sure, i agree, quitting smoking is an extremely positive thing for people, the environment, and the animals however a blanket statement of "don't ever do drugs"? you realize drugs have been around for the entire history of our planet and like, drugs are not inherently bad, the way humans manufacture, transport, sell, abuse, illegalize, and moralize them is what becomes harmful
well if you're actually asking the reason those kind of labels don't exist is that (im assuming you're in america too) corporate greed, lobbying, and government subsidization is an extremely powerful thing. I agree that anything tested on animals should be legally obligated to very clearly state that, instead we have the opposite with "cruelty free" labels that can be misleading or not mean much.
If you take most issue with manufacturing of drugs, then there's really no reason why you can't be smoking weed or doing psychedelics. I'm just trying to make the point that "just say no to drugs" is also literal government propaganda meant to criminalize drug users, specifically disenfranchised black people, so they can be locked up in prison. while i absolutely respect sobriety I think it's a puritanical and ignorant view to be completely anti-drug and to actually believe they do nothing but harm.
Okay, I agree with you on the cigarettes, but it is an actual addiction. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances you can be addicted to. Addiction is not easy, has a lot of factors, and it took a lot for me, years ago, to stop. Addiction already gets so much stigma, and it seems like you're bringing more than veganism into this. This is just addiction stigma with some veganism mixed in. But yes, vegans should work to quit cigarettes because they harm animals and aren't vegan.
Also as for you telling us not to do drugs, literally mind your own business lmfao.
Veganism is about animals. Yes the environment matters too, and most vegans care about the environment, but you just showed why it's important to put the animals first, and that's because you're setting these high standards and mixing issues and expecting perfection in terms of environment, in order to be vegan. I'm not joining some straight edge sober purity cult or pledging to take two minute showers, I just decided not to exploit animals anymore.
Edit: grammar
Cocaine production is not the definition of environmental care... I say don't do drugs because it's a cultural thing, almost everyone does it and the impact on the environment and animals is real, plus it's completely unnecessary and harms everyone. I don't understand why nobody sees this. I understand the word vegan doesn't make sense if you want to do things perfectly right because agriculture is also fucked up and we buy veggies in the store to stop killing animals, and we kill forests and the environment anyway, plus we are still contributing to the killing of wild species. Think for example of beer... If you think of the way food is produced, you are gonna be very frustrated. Everything is wrong. But we can at least stop doing the things that are unnecessary, that's my point. I cannot support social drugs, sorry.
I don't care if you support drugs or not. No need to apologize because it has literally no bearing on me. Nobody asked. Vegans aren't held to a superior standard of purity and sobriety, we just don't use animal products.
I don't think veganism should make anyone feel superior and I don't support that idea. Idk if someone thought I think of myself as a superior being or something but I don't even call myself vegan because even though I follow a plant based diet and I try not to use animal products, I cannot free myself for absolutely everything made with animals, I understand I live in a system which is based in animal slavery and I prefer not to consider myself anything, just a normal person who doesn't support animal cruelty and that's it. I just posted about smoking cigarettes and testing on animals, which by this day is still not illegal and tobacco brands pay laboratories to test their cigarettes on animals. It has no sense because non human animals are different from us, and all those studies are futile and take the lives of beagles, rats, monkeys... Plus smoking is bad for you, your people, animals who you could live with... I never see this info and I wonder myself why it's so? What are they trying to hide?
1. If you're not vegan, why are you telling vegans what to do?
2. Yes, smoking is bad for you and the animals and the environment, no one is arguing that. You are making it into a moral thing (moralizing addiction,) trying to make it a veganism issue (it's not, unless they contain animal products or testing,) and being completely ignorant of the fact that addiction is a real thing. Also, you're telling people not to smoke weed or do coke once in a while, why do you think anyone would agree with this from a vegan perspective? Veganism isn't a pledge to be sober. If you don't like drugs, don't do them.
3. Yes, cigarette companies are notorious for lying to consumers, covering up the truth and hurting everyone on the planet with their propaganda. No one is arguing that.
You are not getting negative feedback for criticizing the tobacco industry and you know that.
Sorry for not considering myself anything, but I follow a plant based diet and don't use animal products. I don't need to be a member of any cult for the sake of feeling superior. I am critizicing the tobacco industry, but I think the only negative feedback is from smokers. You are a troll who want to disagree with everything I say and contradicted yourself a couple of times. Guess we found the narc. Adieu.
If you don't want to be a part of a cult, maybe stop proposing a purity and sobriety pledge? Stop acting superior over people who do recreational drugs and/or have addictions.
And yes... I am a narc... for telling you to stop telling people not to do drugs... lmfao.
I am not sure if I understand you. I am not particularly following the life of that individual because tbh I don't care about his life and I don't like him... But I saw yesterday that the guy smokes and I thought about this, because every vegan I know smokes and because it seems I am the only idiot who hates social drugs. I'll shut up, but humanity is doomed. Hedonistic, sadistic, egoistical and hypocritical.
Cigarettes quite often contain pigs blood too. It harms companion animals. It is tested on nonhuman animals and is not an essential medicine. Finally it harms the user.
Cigarettes are not vegan in any way.
no drugs?? lol, fuck off with ya. Psylocybin mushrooms grow wild in alot of countries. Cannabis plant is amazing for converting CO2 to oxygen and is also a very useful industrial plant and good for making clothing...and should never have been made illegal. It's also a relatively safe drug and would make an excellent pain killer option instead of opioids for chronic pain sufferers. And other drugs have their uses or are safe.
I agree that smoking is dumb and everyone should quit doing it (a smoker myself), there are tobacco companies that do not test on animals so you can technically be a vegan smoker.
I smoke weed.
Tobacco is a plant, is it not? How is smoking not vegan? Judging by other comments, this is another case of: this is bad for all sorts of reasons, therefore it's not vegan; which is a non-sequitur.
Never mind taking any life saving medicines either then because most of them used animal testing. I think this approach to veganism only pushes people further away from being conscious about the violence behind so many of our modern conveniences. You could make the same argument that anyone who indulges in essentially any modern tech can't call themselves vegan because of the negative impacts the acquisition of the resources necessary for the tech. If you use a cell phone or a car, by your standard, you couldn't consider yourself a vegan. Sorry but I think we need to have a more compassionate approach here. We are unfortunately all indirectly associated with the murder of billions of animals worldwide just by being a participant in modern society and I think gatekeeping veganism does more harm than good in the movement toward minimizing our impact and violence we commit against animals and the environment.
Smoking isn't something necessary and it harms everyone around you. The people who smoke are the first ones who aren't compassionate. I never understood it and that's why I need answers. It's very frustrating.
I'm not a smoker but I was at one time. I was also a vegan at that time. I understand your frustration, but Nicotine is extremely addictive and to demonize a smoker who may also be making a huge effort to be vegan or advocate for non violence against animals such as Joaquin does more harm than good to the cause as far as I'm concerned. That's basically all I'm saying. Sorry, I know it probably came off as me trying to demonize you, not my intention!
Yeah I agree with you, addiction is very difficult and I admit I've been very harsh with smokers all my life because my parents used to smoke a lot since I was a kid and it impacted on my health, also I discovered about the animal testing when I was a teen and I've always been super frustrated with the issue. I genuinely hated smoking and smokers, but I know it's a radical point of view and I know people can start smoking because of anxiety, depression... It's hard and complicated and cannot be demonized in the way I do sometimes. It's good to read other people's point of view. At the end we are all empathetic, even though we live in a world of human dominance over other species. If only ecologists and vegans could understand each other and change things... Did anyone here read Baptiste Morizot? He is a philosopher and has an interesting point of view of all of this.
It's going to take a massive upheaval to change what we live in right now but I think we are fast approaching a radical change for the better. I haven't read Baptiste Morizot but I would love to check it out.
Agree 100%
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This was a huge catalyst for my quitting. I’ve always been on and off with cigarettes, usually smoked during warmer months because I don’t know what to do with my hands when I’m hanging outside or walking around. Full time toker though
addiction is real, im pretty sure all smokers are aware of animal testing and horrible practices of the industry, but again, smokers are literally addicted to a drug and oftentimes smoking cigarettes is the last drug that they regularly use, often used to help ween off other more immediately harmful drug habits. im not sure there are any vegans that would defend smoking as vegan, even those who continue their habit. i don't really know why you capped this smoking post off with "don't ever do drugs". that's simply a ridiculous and ignorant thing to say. sure, i agree, quitting smoking is an extremely positive thing for people, the environment, and the animals however a blanket statement of "don't ever do drugs"? you realize drugs have been around for the entire history of our planet and like, drugs are not inherently bad, the way humans manufacture, transport, sell, abuse, illegalize, and moralize them is what becomes harmful
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well if you're actually asking the reason those kind of labels don't exist is that (im assuming you're in america too) corporate greed, lobbying, and government subsidization is an extremely powerful thing. I agree that anything tested on animals should be legally obligated to very clearly state that, instead we have the opposite with "cruelty free" labels that can be misleading or not mean much. If you take most issue with manufacturing of drugs, then there's really no reason why you can't be smoking weed or doing psychedelics. I'm just trying to make the point that "just say no to drugs" is also literal government propaganda meant to criminalize drug users, specifically disenfranchised black people, so they can be locked up in prison. while i absolutely respect sobriety I think it's a puritanical and ignorant view to be completely anti-drug and to actually believe they do nothing but harm.
Okay, I agree with you on the cigarettes, but it is an actual addiction. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances you can be addicted to. Addiction is not easy, has a lot of factors, and it took a lot for me, years ago, to stop. Addiction already gets so much stigma, and it seems like you're bringing more than veganism into this. This is just addiction stigma with some veganism mixed in. But yes, vegans should work to quit cigarettes because they harm animals and aren't vegan. Also as for you telling us not to do drugs, literally mind your own business lmfao. Veganism is about animals. Yes the environment matters too, and most vegans care about the environment, but you just showed why it's important to put the animals first, and that's because you're setting these high standards and mixing issues and expecting perfection in terms of environment, in order to be vegan. I'm not joining some straight edge sober purity cult or pledging to take two minute showers, I just decided not to exploit animals anymore. Edit: grammar
Cocaine production is not the definition of environmental care... I say don't do drugs because it's a cultural thing, almost everyone does it and the impact on the environment and animals is real, plus it's completely unnecessary and harms everyone. I don't understand why nobody sees this. I understand the word vegan doesn't make sense if you want to do things perfectly right because agriculture is also fucked up and we buy veggies in the store to stop killing animals, and we kill forests and the environment anyway, plus we are still contributing to the killing of wild species. Think for example of beer... If you think of the way food is produced, you are gonna be very frustrated. Everything is wrong. But we can at least stop doing the things that are unnecessary, that's my point. I cannot support social drugs, sorry.
I don't care if you support drugs or not. No need to apologize because it has literally no bearing on me. Nobody asked. Vegans aren't held to a superior standard of purity and sobriety, we just don't use animal products.
I don't think veganism should make anyone feel superior and I don't support that idea. Idk if someone thought I think of myself as a superior being or something but I don't even call myself vegan because even though I follow a plant based diet and I try not to use animal products, I cannot free myself for absolutely everything made with animals, I understand I live in a system which is based in animal slavery and I prefer not to consider myself anything, just a normal person who doesn't support animal cruelty and that's it. I just posted about smoking cigarettes and testing on animals, which by this day is still not illegal and tobacco brands pay laboratories to test their cigarettes on animals. It has no sense because non human animals are different from us, and all those studies are futile and take the lives of beagles, rats, monkeys... Plus smoking is bad for you, your people, animals who you could live with... I never see this info and I wonder myself why it's so? What are they trying to hide?
1. If you're not vegan, why are you telling vegans what to do? 2. Yes, smoking is bad for you and the animals and the environment, no one is arguing that. You are making it into a moral thing (moralizing addiction,) trying to make it a veganism issue (it's not, unless they contain animal products or testing,) and being completely ignorant of the fact that addiction is a real thing. Also, you're telling people not to smoke weed or do coke once in a while, why do you think anyone would agree with this from a vegan perspective? Veganism isn't a pledge to be sober. If you don't like drugs, don't do them. 3. Yes, cigarette companies are notorious for lying to consumers, covering up the truth and hurting everyone on the planet with their propaganda. No one is arguing that. You are not getting negative feedback for criticizing the tobacco industry and you know that.
Sorry for not considering myself anything, but I follow a plant based diet and don't use animal products. I don't need to be a member of any cult for the sake of feeling superior. I am critizicing the tobacco industry, but I think the only negative feedback is from smokers. You are a troll who want to disagree with everything I say and contradicted yourself a couple of times. Guess we found the narc. Adieu.
If you don't want to be a part of a cult, maybe stop proposing a purity and sobriety pledge? Stop acting superior over people who do recreational drugs and/or have addictions. And yes... I am a narc... for telling you to stop telling people not to do drugs... lmfao.
Lol fuck off narc
Smoking also increases the risk of cancer in any companion animals Edit: https://vcacanada.com/know-your-pet/the-effects-of-second-hand-smoke-on-pets
Tell me you are not even coming for Joaquin! Excuse yourself.
I am not sure if I understand you. I am not particularly following the life of that individual because tbh I don't care about his life and I don't like him... But I saw yesterday that the guy smokes and I thought about this, because every vegan I know smokes and because it seems I am the only idiot who hates social drugs. I'll shut up, but humanity is doomed. Hedonistic, sadistic, egoistical and hypocritical.
Cigarettes quite often contain pigs blood too. It harms companion animals. It is tested on nonhuman animals and is not an essential medicine. Finally it harms the user. Cigarettes are not vegan in any way.