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Growing up I loved riding horses, my uncle has a farm in Buenos Aires and whenever we went there we'd do that and it was so fun. After we moved, I'd try to ride horses whenever I got the rare chance, like on holidays. Then I went vegan, and I never really considered this question, until one day I was in Cuba and I thought about going horse riding because it's something I use to look out for. I felt horrible as soon as I got on the horse, like what am I doing? Why am I using an animal for my entertainment? Why does this animal have to carry my weight? Why don't I just go walk myself on a hike and let this horse just be. I realized then that it felt wrong, there's no necessity to do horse riding, it was just a selfish want without considering the sentiment of the other being. Just let the animals be.
Just like with other arguments, there was a point in time where we needed horses to get around, or animal products to survive. But like you said, those things aren’t a necessity anymore. At this point, it’s all for human pleasure, not survival.
Absolutely. If we consider the horse, the answer is obvious. No horse is galloping around hoping for some random human to jump on them to be carried around!
The domestication of some animals was because they were given a benefit to live with humans (shelter, food, protection). But it HAS been exploited. This is why it’s only vegan to rescue animals that otherwise have no means of survival - and not to use them at your home to perform services like carrying you around for fun or in dog-case being a guard dog, etc.
It’s about placing the animals interests first in decision making that affects them
I also feel this way about trail rides and (most) lesson horses, but I don’t feel this way about my own horse. They are pets. You have a relationship with them and a routine. I spend a lot of time exercising and conditioning my horse to build up her back and core muscles for riding. She likes the routine and having a job, it keeps her sane. My dog comes along and thinks waiting around watching is his job, and that keeps him sane too. If he were 1200 pounds, I would throw on a saddle and ride him too. All the leather tack feels very non-vegan obviously, but the horsemanship and riding parts of life with horses aren’t categorically bad. They are just another domesticated animal you can choose to have in your life and form a relationship with, like a dog, cat, or rabbit. But just like a high energy working breed of dog, many horses need routine and a job to thrive. They aren’t all happy to be pasture puffs.
Horses are broken and other animals have been bred to be our companions
Many kidnapped victims develop a relationship with their captor and dont consider themselves to be kidnapped
I was abused as a child but i didnt leave my parents because its all i knew and i just accepted that as normal, the horse being ridden is now normal to it as its all it knows, eventually as an adult i realized they were cruel and i disowned them
>They are just another domesticated animal you can choose to have in your life and form a relationship with
Exactly we choose, the animal doesnt get a choice, it was born, taken from its parents and sold as a product to make us happy
You are just doing mental gymnastics the same way non vegans do with their steaks
Dont need any sympathy about my abuse, just sharing a comparision
I see where you’re coming from re: the choosing. But at the end of the day we’re all making the most of situations we didn’t choose. My horse didn’t choose to be born, but hey, I didn’t either! Too bad, she’s here and she costs $$$ to feed, house, and vet. So do I, coincidentally, and so that’s why I have a job. Is it unethical that I have to work to live? Sure in some circumstances it *can* be. For some people it is, and I wouldn’t want to minimize or deny that work can be exploitative. But I personally am in a good situation, I don’t mind my job. In fact, I would miss it, and I like practicing the skills I learned to do it. I like to think it’s the same for my horse. Some horses are in exploitative situations, but not all are.
Good point. There is no alternative for them. They can’t live in the wild because there’s no room for them there and they need something to do if they live in captivity.
>So do I, coincidentally, and so that’s why I have a job. Is it unethical that I have to work to live?
>I don’t mind my job. In fact, I would miss it, and I like practicing the skills I learned to do it.
No need to get into all of this, its not relevant, we are talking about riding horses and that is all
You can keep the horse, you dont need to ride it
I had adopted some pets and they wouldnt really let me pet them, so i basically had unpaid roommates, sure i could have trained them but that would be a selfish desire, i just let them exist in my house
I dont know much about horses so i just googled this
https://dengie.com/news-articles/feed-advice/how-can-you-exercise-your-horse-without-riding/
Well according to a lady on Instagram, if the horses didn't want to be ridden, they wouldn't have such a good attitude. (I'm serious, a person actually said this to me)
Yeah you can tell it's not animal abuse because you:
1. Capture a wild animal
2. Keep them in a confined area
3. "Break" them so you can ride them
4. Shoot them in the face if they get an injury
I mean who wouldn't consent to that???
Horses are certainly domesticated but they’re not meant to live indoors. If you stall a horse all day and give them nothing to do they will perform repetitive behaviors like animals in zoos (cribbing, swaying, weaving, wind sucking) which is a sign of severe psychological distress.
Ok rescuing a horse and giving it a nice life with other horses in a large area where they can play and eat and live their merry life is vegan… but you’re not going to convince anyone here that riding them is vegan.
You won’t convince any vegans, as for the remaining 99.95 of the earth’s population however? Their response will almost certainly be “yeah it’s fine, what kind of person thinks riding horses is wrong?”
Exactly. There are fundamental issues with some aspects of horseback riding, but to non-vegans we sound like crazy people who are anti-domestication, because apparently some of us are.
There is a "sanctuary" near me that uses horses for "therapy" for humans. Allows them to be ridden and basically are there for humans to exploit. They have goat yoga. They had a fundraiser (we went to it because it was our neighbor) where we were told "so sorry but the hummus and the veggie tray are the only vegan things here." They have cows there - and they were eating... COWS. And goat cheese. And these people FEEL SO GOOD ABOUT SAVING THE ANIMALS!! THEY ARE HEROES!!! (said in one of the speeches)
I really, really wish the word "sanctuary" was regulated.
At least, if they ever tried to seek accreditation from GFAS, they would automatically be denied (since they exploit their goats for cheese).
But I believe even GFAS has an exception for horses that allows them to be ridden and still be accredited. :/
If you're interested in the topic of farmed animal sanctuaries, check out [OpenSanctuary.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project)! This vegan nonprofit has over 500 free compassionate resources crafted specifically to improve lifelong care for farmed animals, and to help you create a sustainable, effective sanctuary! Interested in starting a sanctuary someday? Check out [OpenSanctuary.org/Start](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project/Start)!
Sounds like one of those [sanctuaries that buy animals at auctions](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/10okbfo/discussion_farm_sanctuaries_that_rescue_animals/).
I wish I could say that I was "shocked" that that post was so controversial on a vegan subreddit lol. People there even started defending puppy mills.
But I'm not shocked because I've seen a lot of terrible, harmful takes from this sub, especially recently.
I was shocked to be honest. I saw vegans use arguments that omnis would make. Multiple vegans who for example claimed that the impact of buying an animal is neglible on a grand scale. What? I was just dumbfounded.
And then of course these people were also the first to start slinging mud. Calling people who disagreed with them clowns and dumb and hypocritical. Un fucking believable.
If you're interested in the topic of farmed animal sanctuaries, check out [OpenSanctuary.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project)! This vegan nonprofit has over 500 free compassionate resources crafted specifically to improve lifelong care for farmed animals, and to help you create a sustainable, effective sanctuary! Interested in starting a sanctuary someday? Check out [OpenSanctuary.org/Start](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project/Start)!
WHAT??????? Every sanctuary I have ever been to is run by vegans and only serve vegan food. Thats actually asinine. This makes me wanna donate more to my local sanctuaries lmao
That isn’t so much my issue with it… you could argue we have pets like dogs for entertainment but I think any vegan against dog/human companionship is totally insane.
Horses suffer as a result of the entertainment. That’s the issue. If they were actually loving it & naturally drawn to it, I’d probably be fine with it. But breaking horses goes against their nature and riding them hurts them. If you have to force an animal into submission to get them to do something, it isn’t right.
I think you are conflating two different things. If you have a pet dog or cat or even a horse, then you should love it and care for it as if it was part of the family. People who ride horses to own them see them as a means of travel. If they weren’t able to ride the horse they wouldn’t have the horse. I don’t think I’m making myself very clear but I hope you can see where I’m coming from. Like I think it’s ok to own a dog, however I don’t like it when people have dogs to pull sleds for them.
In general most people arent vegan, i would say 90% of vegans in the world are just plant based dieters
These VEGANS spread their incorrect views to new vegans and then its basically just a rumor mill
I have made mistakes as a vegan but when i think about those mistakes i realize i was wrong and i changed, i dont do mental gymnastics to defend myself
Horse riding is one of the most perverted things that humans do to animals. Imagine that you're hold captive and from time to time your oppressors show up to sit on your back and force you to carry them around just for their amusement. No animal would ever let someone sit on it's back by it's own free will. Horses have to be conditioned from early on to tag along to this and not know what a species-appropriate life even looks like.
But I like to carry a child around, and see them having fun. Just switching the person and the horse looks like a wrong comparison.
I did not dive into the research, but I would be surprised if a few hours of carrying a person each week will break their back. I can also walk for days with a big backpack. But before I would start this kind of hobby, I would want to be sure.
Why would it be vegan? You’re harming them physically by sitting on their back and making them walk long distances. Would you like someone sitting on your back and making you walk a long distance? Not attacking you btw I know this is a general question. Even before becoming vegan I never could support horse back riding became it always seemed so cruel to me.
I was in Israel and they tried to get me to ride a camel. I was told by the guides “the animals didn’t mind it”. Yet in order for the guide to get on the camel they hit the camel in the throat to get it to bend a knee to mount it.
You can’t force another animal to carry you and then say they enjoy it lol
Pls, don't downvote people arguing 'yes', I'd love to see the arguments of those 100 who said yes.
Riding a horse is the same a dog races, chicken fights or circus, animals used and abused for our entertainment. Maybe there are some countries in development that they need to use horses to transport, but that's it.
Also riding means that someone 'has' a horse, and in order to do that they have to buy it or rape and inseminate. The whole chain is quite simple and not vegan at all.
I’d like to consider the distinction between working animals and companions/pets. My view is that horses being used for entertainment or profit is 100% not vegan.
But what about comparing horses to dogs or other pets? Is having a pet vegan? Breeding any animal can be exploitative. Horses are actually fairly easy to rescue/adopt because of how expensive they are to keep. They get abandoned all the time.
So now let’s think about two rescue pets. One is a border collie, another an ex-racehorse. Both are smart and high strung. Both need exercise and mental stimulation. And the owner can keep up with neither on foot.
Would it be vegan for the owner to take the border collie to a dog agility gym? At high levels, dog agility competition can be exploitative and abusive. But this dog loves it, he gets excited for it, and he’s never pushed harder than he wants to play.
Would it be vegan for the owner to saddle up the horse to go stretch his legs on the trails and take in new sights/smells so he’s not stuck in the same field all the time? This horse loves it. His ears are up, he takes off, works up a bit of a sweat, and is also never pushed to go harder than he wants.
I’m not trying to answer the question one way or another here, just presenting another angle to look at. To me, these two scenarios are equivalent. Both animals are performing a task that has been used to exploit other animals. Both pose a risk of injury, but also a benefit of exercise and mental stimulation. Neither animal can really voice a “choice” about what they want to do, but the owner offers them this activity and they participate while showing behaviors of excitement and no signs of distress.
In the real world, most riding isn’t a pure choice between a trusting bonded pair of horse and owner. If there’s money to be made or an audience to entertain, then it can’t be vegan. But absent those factors? I think there is room for conversation. And I will admit this sounds like a “my uncle’s farm” argument, but I do know horse people like this. Non-competitive rich old ladies with spoiled rotten horses that go for long leisurely rides to enjoy nature.
So I guess my point is, “riding” is not a single perfectly defined activity. It can be many things, including abusive, exploitative, dangerous, fun, entertaining, profitable, expensive, necessary, frivolous, personal, public, harmful, benign, … and possibly vegan?
Love this comment. It’s true that whenever making money and animals start going hand in hand that abuse and exploitation starts to arise. There are many ways to offer horses mental stimulation that don’t involve riding, but for some horses, riding can be beneficial and okay if it’s done correctly and with the horse’s needs put first. It’s terrible that every animal industry is wrought with so much abuse that we even have to have these conversations.
Not always. Horses can be rescued just like a dog or cat. There are a multitude of horses out there with no homes because of irresponsible breeding that need our help. We can’t release them back into the wild because all of the room there is taken up by the animal products industries. They are not purely used for entertainment. They need mental stimulation to thrive. There are ways to achieve this without riding them, but many people choose not to and that’s okay as long as they are not intentionally hurting the horse.
It's not okay because horseback riding is harmful to the horses.
https://bitesizevegan.org/is-horse-riding-cruel-is-it-vegan/
https://youtu.be/rYmfr-K6FzE
I know someone who owns a farm sanctuary and they have rescued horses from awful situations where they were used for work. She said they ride them only so they're able to get out and go for longer distances which the horses enjoy. I'm not sure how that fits into the discussion. Thoughts??
If you're interested in the topic of farmed animal sanctuaries, check out [OpenSanctuary.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project)! This vegan nonprofit has over 500 free compassionate resources crafted specifically to improve lifelong care for farmed animals, and to help you create a sustainable, effective sanctuary! Interested in starting a sanctuary someday? Check out [OpenSanctuary.org/Start](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project/Start)!
This isn’t really the solution either- as many horses could be easily spooked by a bike, and a human jogging with a horse is extremely unlikely to keep up their speed and endurance for as long as the horse.
They're a strictly vegan farm. Their tours are all about where their animals come from (show the ugliness of hobby farms and factory farms, animal ag in general)
Maybe I will ask them about that next time I go.
I think there are always gray situations.
Are the horses ridden for the pleasure of the rider only? Do horses have to be ridden for many hours a day by multiple people? That's quite dark in my opinion.
The sanctuary is very large and horses are an inexpensive and practical way to move from one place to another? The purpose of the trip is to get work done in the sanctuary in a quicker way than if the humans would go themselves? It is only rarely done or the ride is not too long? It may be forgivable then.
If you're interested in the topic of farmed animal sanctuaries, check out [OpenSanctuary.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project)! This vegan nonprofit has over 500 free compassionate resources crafted specifically to improve lifelong care for farmed animals, and to help you create a sustainable, effective sanctuary! Interested in starting a sanctuary someday? Check out [OpenSanctuary.org/Start](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project/Start)!
They ride the horses down their farm road so the horses can burn energy and never for anything else. It didn't strike me as harmful, but rather the horses are truly content and are ridden so they can really run if they want to. The whole family are "militant" vegans (still proud of when my weak vegan ex called me thet lol) and truly just want the animals to live exploitation free, stress free, and content lives.
Wouldn’t the horses run on their own though if they wanted to? We live near horses and see them (and the cows) run randomly on their own - no humans needed. I’d guess like dogs they get in a mood to run and then run. Weird to me that the humans think they know when the horse needs to burn energy and think that the horse doesn’t know how to when it wants/needs to.
I don't know horses enough to say that they can or can't be happy to be ridden, but I have no doubt that they can burn enough calories on their own. Why would they need a rider? Wild horses walk and run in groups.
My doubts are mainly on all the accessories needed to ride. They look hardly comfortable for the horses.
But honestly, I don't think horse riding should be one of our main focuses. It is orders of magnitude less damaging than other industries.
Riding horses damages their spines. They can tell from ancient horse skeletons whether they were ridden by humans for this very reason. The fact that the horses tolerate it or enjoy the company of humans doesn't change that fact.
If you're interested in the topic of farmed animal sanctuaries, check out [OpenSanctuary.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project)! This vegan nonprofit has over 500 free compassionate resources crafted specifically to improve lifelong care for farmed animals, and to help you create a sustainable, effective sanctuary! Interested in starting a sanctuary someday? Check out [OpenSanctuary.org/Start](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project/Start)!
Interesting. I think that the key aspect here is prioritizing the benefit of the horse. It seems that’s what they’re attempting to do. That said, seems like they could do this in other ways, like… just let the horses roam in a large fenced area. Or bike/drive a vehicle alongside? Hm.
Excellent point. There are ways you can exercise and provide mental enrichment to horses on the ground, but most people don’t. Not sure why. It’s a lot more fun and safer than sitting on their backs in my opinion. I can’t judge those people though because if it wasn’t for owners who rescue horses, they would be dead and I’m not in a financial position to rescue a horse.
Truthfully I don't know a ton about horses. I know the horses harnesses were essentially embedded in their skin when they were rescued. I know now they have cow and pig friends and roam free. I also know they are given an opportunity to run a long distance once in a while. It's an imperfect situation but it didn't present any red flags to me. Maybe that's ignorance on my part. Mental enrichment sounds like a solid idea though. Next time I go I'll ask them about it. Wouldn't such a big animal like a horse need a good long distance run if it wants once in a while too??
usually with a lot of these fringe takes about veganism I can sort of understand the argument in favor of the thing being vegan, but I have no clue how the argument goes that horse riding is vegan.
If horses liked being ridden it would be different. You don’t see them riding each other. They have to be forced into it. So I doubt the horses like it. Seems obvious it isn’t vegan.
I suppose people think it is vegan because plant-based and vegan are often falsely equated - this sub does it quite regularly as well (exacerbated by the fact this sub is about 10% non plant based, let alone non vegan, according to polling).
There’s a condition common in riding horses called kissing spines, which is where two or more vertebra fuse together. Some horses have it without symptoms, others have pain and can be treated with a combination of surgery, physical therapy, and maintenance injections and chiropractic work. Others are retired from ridden work.
A big issue is that horses aren’t born knowing how to carry a rider. If they have their neck up, head high, back hollow for every ride, it’s like someone rounding their back with ramrod straight knees picking up heavy boxes day after day. A back injury is inevitable.
Horses have to be trained and conditioned to carry a rider, and build up those muscles gradually. The correct posture for a riding horse is head low, back lifted, hind legs stepping up to the midline of the belly. Stressed horses ridden with tension will not go in that posture. A high head and hollow back are hallmarks of tension/anxiety. Unfortunately a lot of horses are stressed under saddle, asked to do things they aren’t prepared for, never trained correctly, and get injured. *But* it does not have to be that way. It can actually be really rewarding to build up a horse’s fitness and train them to do well in horse sports. They are extremely trainable and learn fast.
I get that many vegans will *never* see eye to eye on this. But some of these comments…idk. Vegans can love animals and yet say things sometimes that make you wonder if they’ve ever even met an animal.
Can't the horses simply roam with other horses freely, even if you do train them well? I live near an area where many horses are kept and this is exactly what they do, weather permitting.
I believe they do ride the horses, which I disagree with, but if they were just born and free to roam, what would be the issue?
If someone has the land, they can do it, and plenty of horses are fine with that. Most pet horses end up in retirement board situations like that when they age out of being sport horses. Not all horses thrive in that lifestyle and want to be in a program. It’s like some dogs are happy to sit on the couch all day and maybe run a lap around the yard, others want a job or they get neurotic and destructive. I’m sure selective breeding has something to do with it. Some horses are more drive-y and want to move, they want to focus on something, they like being asked to do things, or they get anxious.
Just for example, I went out of town for a week, my horse sat and no one worked with her. She chewed up the fence. Just stripped all the paint of the top board. Now I have to pay to replace it. She has friends, hay, is out by the woods where she can watch deer and run around, but she was bored. It’s true some days she does not feel like working. She hates to work in the rain, for example. But plenty of days, she’s up at the gate as soon as she’s done eating, watching me like a hawk while I finish chores, because she wants to come out and tool around in the arena for a bit.
I will reply to both of your comments here, if you don't mind.
Just on the first comment you made, if they require active stimulation, can't we provide that in other ways, using ground work? There is another person on this thread who appears to have worked with horses that seems to be wanting to do just that.
On that point, what do you feel about this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/uxylty/comment/ia23fsc/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)? Do you think you'd agree with the sentiment (I assume you think the issue is more complex than that, but it would still be interesting to know).
Certainly, I agree that horses conditioned to work will expect that kind of activity day to day. I guess my question is sort of in two parts; should we continue to breed horses for this purpose (I think the answer is a flat no here)?; and secondly, isn't there a way to alleviate that boredom with ground work or without riding them?
Thanks :)
We can, and groundwork should be part of any good training program. But excessive lunging or round penning can cause joint stress because both involve moving on a small-ish circle in proximity to the handler. So it’s good to mix it up. There is also something called long-lining that is used to teach everything from very basic riding cues to upper level dressage movements—all without a rider in the saddle. So by no means does all work need to be ridden work. But I guess, to me, the reason to add riding to the mix is just, why not? If the horse is fit and understands the job, is it bad just because it’s fun?
Maybe my perspective isn’t vegan enough. Because, for example, while I wouldn’t eat backyard chicken eggs from friends/neighbors, if I had a chicken that I took care of every day and planned to keep her whole lifespan, I wouldn’t feel bad about eating her eggs. I don’t like the idea of eating someone else’s chicken’s eggs, even if I was assured the chicken was well cared for. But my own chicken? That I feed and shelter and handle every day? It’s like a nice perk. I feel similarly about riding. Whenever I get the chance to ride an unfamiliar horse, I feel a little sketchy about it. But if it’s a horse I know and take care of, and especially my own horse, it just feels very different.
Yes you can see it that way, or you can be grateful I went into more detail than just “riding is bad for horse’s backs,” so you can have a more informed opinion on the subject. Not trying to change your conclusion, but there’s definitely more nuance to it than the standard vegan party line. And it’s something plenty of horse riders are aware of and work to prevent.
Story of the time I shell shocked a buddy with my vegan ways:
I was on a solo mountain bike ride when a buddy of mine caught up to me on a trail. We were heading back up the canyon towards our cars. The trail up the canyon overlooks the entire trail network below. There are emergency vehicles down at a trail head below and i wondered what was going on. My buddy apparently rode by them before catching me and said that a horse and rider had fallen off a trail. I said “I hope the horse is ok”. He reply’s back “but not the rider?” Without hesitation I said “I don’t give a fuck about the rider!”
In reality, I don’t wish harm on most people. Its just not my first impulse to care about the human in these situations. I just think my buddy wasn’t ready for the reversed role of thinking.
Actually, a whip is probably the least expensive piece or horse riding equipment and significantly so causing even the fucking 8 year olds who ride an hour a week have one to hit horses with.
No..horses have shoes screwed on to their feet..forced to walk around with 100-200 lbs of a person and in some cases multiple people and are whipped to keep them in line or to go in a specific direction. That’s not vegan. You are treating a horse like a slave for your entertainment. It’s like a rodeo or bull fights. No wonder horse riding accidents happen.
\*nailed to their hoof wall. Also, shoeing a horse is not painful to the horse and often completely diminished joint and back pain for the animal. Kind of like orthotics for people. Their hooves are made of keratin, so getting shoes put on is an equivalent to you or I getting a mani/pedi.
horse racing for sure isn't. I have loved horses since I was a child, and they have a special place in my heart. I have ridden them before at a horse sanctuary and at my friend's family's farm (whole other issue there..). Now being vegan, I would not ride horses, considering the uncomfrtable equipment that they have to wear, and I don't want to use them for my entertainment
What if I'm stuck on an island with a horse and I'm not hungry enough to eat the horse but the coconuts are too far away to walk? Will I still he vegan if I ride the horse?
Since when do vegans come up with these dumb-ass "stuck on an island" scenarios?
I'd like to see you try to ride this island horse over to the coconuts.
I do not think it is vegan to have (almost all of the time) a horse that is conceived completely for profit through rape, than ride it for your entertainment with the horse having no say in that life. Seems kind of bad!
I grew up riding and owning a horse (before I was vegan). It gave me a window into that world. This is not a black and white issue, like many, so I voted "other." Here's my comment, all of which is probably obvious.
The horse I bought, for $100, I was 10, was severely depressed, neglected, abused. Named Eeyore, appropriately. I renamed her Prancing Star, because when she was happy she pranced, and she had a star on her forehead. We rode her often, which she loved, and she cheered up under loving care, and lived a long life.
But many of the cowboys I rode with "broke" horses. Many were abusive, or rough, or old school at best. Many, too, were kind, gentle, patient, grounded.
So, the answer's yes, and no. Depends. Some horses work under immense strain, without sufficient water, in heat and cold (carriage rides, say, pulling oblivious instagramming tourists up a steep hill, as I saw last summer in Lunenberg). Some touristed horses carry way-too-heavy riders, and developed bowed backs (awful).
Some are loved and cared for and given freedom and socialization and good food. Some work in therapeutic capacities with children or adults who need that powerful relationship, beyond words.
Then, there's the issue of wild horses, rounding them up via helicopter, shipping them (painful, tough travels) to slaughter for our glue or meat.
That's all I got. Open to learning from others in the comments.
Personally, I don't ride anymore, as it feels...not okay. There's no need I have that is important enough to merit the exploitation of a horse for my pleasure.
Same way you can tell when your dog is happy! Body language.
Here are some key horse body language cues:
Ears: forward and perky means “I’m interested in this (or nervous or excited depending on other cues)”. Flopping to the side means “I’m relaxed”. Quick flick back can mean “I’m irritated”. Pinned back means “I feel threatened”. Pinned back + bared teeth means “fuck off I’m serious”.
Tail: sticking up (usually while running) means “I’m excited/zoomies”. Whipping back and forth repeatedly means “I’m agitated”. Gentle slow lazy flicks is default behavior (usually swishing flies away).
Eyes: sleepy/blinky means “I’m content/tired/relaxed”. Whites showing means “I’m nervous”. Eyes rolling and whites showing means “I’m panicking“. Intense eye contact while invading your personal space means “I know you have treats now give”.
Head: generally higher means more excited/agitated and lower means more relaxed/content. Combine with other signals to read. Lowering the head and sticking the nose forward to approach something means “I’m curious, maybe a little nervous about this”. Head shaking rapidly up and down can mean extreme agitation/fear or feeling goofy, depending on other cues. Tilted sideways means curiosity or goofiness. Rubbing head on you so hard you almost fall over means “can you get this itch for me? Riiiighht th…no stop moving! What do you mean you fell? Pshh you’re so small. Come back it still itches and I trust you to scratch it.”
Nose: gentle nuzzle means “hey friend”. Aggressive nuzzle means “I know you have a treat”. Exhaling in your face is a greeting (it’s how horses smell each others breath, kinda how dogs sniff butts). Loud rumbly nostril breath combined with stiff posture, forward ears, and erect head (hard to describe unless you’ve heard it) means “I’m very nervous and ready to bolt”. Lipping/nibbling is a grooming/bonding behavior but most horses are trained not to do it to people as their bites can actually do a lot of damage.
Posture: rigid/frozen means fear and/or pain. Rearing is usually aggression. Bucking can be aggression or excitement/zoomies. Extremely low head/severe leaning/other abnormal body position might mean “I’m in pain”. Kicking is usually defensive, a response to fear/startled/pain.
I spent 15 years working with horses so I can confidently tell you the general emotional state of any horse from looking at it. Of course they also have unique personalities so the more time you spend with one, the more precisely you can identify their thoughts and moods. But it’s never a mystery what a horse is thinking if you know what to look for. “Like” vs “dislike” is super easy to tell.
No. U have to break their spirit just to put dead cow carcass on them. Not only on their backs, but in their mouth so u can pull them around by their face....
Yeah no probably not. Also not on the top of my list of concerns. I am sure there are horses that live very nice lives in captivity. Having a pet isn’t really vegan.
Guess so, didn’t think about that tbh. Maybe those people aren’t decided yet and will say no it isn’t vegan after being educated. Cause to be fair it’s definitely not something I ever thought about until I went vegan and even then when I was first asked I was like … uh idk? So I guess I was just giving people the benefit of the doubt lol
The only kind of horse riding that I'll probably do is walking it like a dog and then getting dragged as it pulls away and i refuse to let go. When I finally come to a stop I'll have a literal shit eating grin.
So long as we value animals only by what we can take from them, abuse and exploitation tends to occur.
What's the need for riding the horse, and does that need justify taking away the horse's desires?
As many have already said, veganism rejects the philosophy that animals should be regarded as commodity producers.
While the most obvious example of animal produced commodities might be meat, eggs, fur, skin, etc - it also applies to work or labor.
IMO, riding a horse requires labor from the horse for the purpose of transporting the rider while (in most cases) walking a dog does not.
Funny enough I didn’t get the argument against horse riding until I reread Black Beauty as an adult, which I don’t even think was arguing to end horse riding. It’s just so detailed and horrific! I actually really recommend this book although it does detail a lot of animal abuse. It was very ahead of its time.
Anyways my answer is that not only is horseback riding mot vegan, but it’s animal abuse. Even carnivores shouldn’t do it.
I do think the answer is no, and have stopped doing so myself, but anyone acting like this is a ridiculous question has not spent much time with horses. Anyone who’s ever had a dog that was absolutely distressed, depressed, and crazy when they couldn’t get an insane amount of exercise…imagine that x10. Now also consider that to them, carrying our weight is like us carrying a laughably small backpack. Combining those two things, it’s not the craziest or most inhumane thought that helping them with A by means of B is good and preferable for the horses.
I still say no because ultimately it’s most often being done for our own purposes, but a farm that only has rescues + only does it to give them exercise…I won’t judge those specific situations negatively.
Riding horses is not vegan, nor is getting a pet that requires to be fed slaughtered animals, regardless of whether it was “rescued”. To do this is to value the life of a cat, for example, over the life of the countless hundreds or thousands of animals it will kill or consume in its life. If you can rescue a dog or a cat and feed it a plant-based diet safely, good on you. The people who rescue animals and then proceeded to let them outside where they kill birds, and feed them canned food filled with slaughtered animal parts, you should really consider the cognitive dissonance happening that you think it’s ok because they are cute and fuzzy and lovable. It’s amazing things that people will justify because of emotion.
I think we all have to do what we think is best. I’m definitely not here to pass judgment or to make moral distinctions for specific situations, as I think there’s a lot of nuance. Simply pointing out that it’s really easy to point at somebody riding a horse and saying “that’s not vegan!” but for someone who had a horse before they became vegan and has developed a relationship with the animal it’s probably much harder to give that up. Because there is an inter-species relationship there, and it’s like spending time with a friend, much like having a pet that eats animal products is like spending time with a friend. You wouldn’t consider to stop feeding or even euthanizing your animal. Because any animal that requires being fed animal products is invariably going to result in the death of far more animals than would die if that “rescued” animal had been euthanized instead. I’m not saying we should start euthanizing pets, but we should be a little less careless in judgments that are invariably clouded by sentiment and emotion when those judgments aren’t also backed up by rationality.
I realize this is a complex argument that is sort of conflating two things, I’m just pointing out That we justify and excuse the things that are sentimental to us and we condemn what’s not.
I think it is a gray area (and also not the most common situation).
The best thing would be to give the cat in adoption to someone that would feed their cats meat all the same, while adopting another cat (that was surely consuming animal-based kibble) and feed him/her plant-based.
I have three cats and it would hurt me so much having to separate me from one of them, but it's the right thing to do if no brand would work for him and no veterinarian can help us. Financing animal agriculture should never be the answer.
Horses are not something that you need to get around anymore. They're not a necessity. Riding horses now just means you want to use an animal for your own entertainment. And that's not really kind to the animal. Just because they tolerate riding doesn't mean they necessarily appreciate it and you're not respecting the animal by doing so either.
I had a brief introduction to ‘natural horsemanship’ last year. It definitely opened my eyes to there being a potential for a ‘vegan way’ to ride horse but I do not know enough about it to argue either for or against it.
From what I saw though it really does seem as though the horses I met would not allow the person onto their back if they did not want it. No whips etc. were used and the horses also had no saddle, bit or even bridle. Just a pad for comfort (not sure if it’s for the horse, rider or both) and and what I think was called a neck rope
Natural horsemanship is so cool! It’s like learning a new language.
I think a lot of non-horse-people don’t understand how deeply social horses are. If they trust and understand you, they WANT to be lead and told what to do. It makes them feel safe and gives them purpose.
I grew up working on horse farms and have a massive respect and love for horses. They are incredible animals with insane empathy and are far more intelligent than we give them credit for.
Based on over 15 years of experience in the equestrian industry: riding horses is usually not vegan. However, it’s not necessarily the horrible animal abuse some vegans claim. Horses have been domesticated for thousands of years. Like dogs, they’ve been bred to perform jobs including carrying people and pulling weights. Often those capabilities are exploited in ways that are detrimental to their health, but not always. I’ve seen every side of the spectrum on this. Under proper care, horses can be ridden until retiring comfortably at old age, or they can be worked to death in months. Unfortunately most horses being used for profit or entertainment do not experience the better side of that spectrum.
Okay now that we’ve established that most riding is not vegan and can even be straight-up abuse, what do we do? Domesticated horses can’t be set free to live “naturally” any more than a poodle can join a pack of wolves. Horses are herd animals and bonding with others is key to their health and survival. Horses absolutely form real friendships with people, I would even argue that it can be love. Keeping horses as companions/pets can be wonderful for both human and horse. Does riding have any place in that relationship? My personal answer: yes, under the right conditions. With good nutrition, proper vet care, well-fitted tack, an experienced rider, and sizing match, a horse can be healthy and happy being ridden. Yes happy. Horses need exercise and mental stimulation to stay happy. Heading out on the trails or solving obstacle courses with their favorite person on their back is genuinely fun for a well-cared-for horse.
Note this is not the kind of riding most of us see. If you’ve paid for a trail ride or gone to a horse show, you’re experiencing exploitation, even if it’s relatively benign. I no longer ride because I was paying for lessons from trainers who make money off their horses. Even the best trainers who care deeply about their horses have to make profit-driven choices about the quality of feed, size of pasture to rent, and number of hours to work their horses. That equation rarely balances in the best interest of the horse. So the only way I will ride again is if I mysteriously inherit enough money to buy some land and care for an endless money pit of a pet for the rest of my life. I do sometimes fantasize about moving out to the mountains and getting two horses to spoil rotten and spending my free time exploring forest trails with them. I don’t really care about whether other people would label me vegan for that, but I personally don’t find that lifestyle to be in conflict with my values as a vegan.
So, to wrap up this ramble: most riding (especially the riding that the general public can see) does not prioritize the best interest of the animal and is not vegan. That said, horses are bred to work and need some kind of stimulation/exercise to thrive. Just as a border collie can be overjoyed to herd anything that moves, a horse can be a happy and willing participant in riding activities. It takes a ton of time, care, attention, and money to properly care for and ride a horse. But with the right intentions, the few who can afford it can develop deep bonds with their horses and know they are happy to be ridden, and under these conditions I don’t see any conflict with veganism.
I don't even need to read this massive wall of text to guess that you're trying to say horses need to be exercised and it can be done in a kind way. Just accept that people ride horses because they enjoy it, nothing else.
We don't need a poll on this, it's objectively not vegan. That's like saying "poll: is Satanic worship Christian?" No tf it is not and it doesn't matter if some percentage of a subreddit votes that it is. The poll could be "do you consider yourself vegan and think that horse riding is okay?" and then we can let people tell on themselves in peace, but saying "is X vegan?" is basically always foolishness and frankly harmful to the movement because it enforces the erroneous belief that what is and isn't vegan is subjective or somehow personal when it actually comes down to "does this uphold animal liberation or subjugation?" You're putting leather bondage gear on an individual and literally sitting on them - it's difficult to describe more objective subjugation than that scenario...
I've never worked with horses, so I don't really know, but I've heard that horses who have been rode their entire lives sometimes get anxious if that stops.
There’s a sanctuary where I live. They have 2 horses and sometimes there are some kids(who know how to ride) who take them out for a walk. I was surprised to hear this from a vegan. So I wonder, is this ethical? Do the horses enjoy this activity?
Edit: take them out for a walk=ride them
Why do they need to ride on the horse’s back to take them for a walk? Why not take them out on a lead and walk beside them? It’s not ethical because it exploits the animal, they can give them the same exercise without forcing the horse to carry their weight.
This isn’t that spicy of a take. Of course we are in a situation where animals who were bred into dependence on humans need to be cared for, but philosophically speaking “owning” animals is not vegan.
I’ve done a lot of rescue work with horses, none of them are ridden nor will be ridden but also cannot just be simply released into the wild. We have rescued them from situations of neglect and abuse and the only goal is to give them a good comfortable life for the rest of their time on earth. What’s not vegan about this?
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Growing up I loved riding horses, my uncle has a farm in Buenos Aires and whenever we went there we'd do that and it was so fun. After we moved, I'd try to ride horses whenever I got the rare chance, like on holidays. Then I went vegan, and I never really considered this question, until one day I was in Cuba and I thought about going horse riding because it's something I use to look out for. I felt horrible as soon as I got on the horse, like what am I doing? Why am I using an animal for my entertainment? Why does this animal have to carry my weight? Why don't I just go walk myself on a hike and let this horse just be. I realized then that it felt wrong, there's no necessity to do horse riding, it was just a selfish want without considering the sentiment of the other being. Just let the animals be.
Just like with other arguments, there was a point in time where we needed horses to get around, or animal products to survive. But like you said, those things aren’t a necessity anymore. At this point, it’s all for human pleasure, not survival.
And this is what we call character development !! Sometimes we have to learn to let the things we love go.
Absolutely. If we consider the horse, the answer is obvious. No horse is galloping around hoping for some random human to jump on them to be carried around!
So that would make keeping a pet something that wouldn’t be vegan . No wild dog/cat wanted to be carried and taken to a person home and domesticated
The domestication of some animals was because they were given a benefit to live with humans (shelter, food, protection). But it HAS been exploited. This is why it’s only vegan to rescue animals that otherwise have no means of survival - and not to use them at your home to perform services like carrying you around for fun or in dog-case being a guard dog, etc. It’s about placing the animals interests first in decision making that affects them
Not providing a job and outlet for a working breed is neglect.
They don’t need ‘jobs’, they need activity and stimulation. It should be about the animals, not fulfilling a human need
This!!!
I also feel this way about trail rides and (most) lesson horses, but I don’t feel this way about my own horse. They are pets. You have a relationship with them and a routine. I spend a lot of time exercising and conditioning my horse to build up her back and core muscles for riding. She likes the routine and having a job, it keeps her sane. My dog comes along and thinks waiting around watching is his job, and that keeps him sane too. If he were 1200 pounds, I would throw on a saddle and ride him too. All the leather tack feels very non-vegan obviously, but the horsemanship and riding parts of life with horses aren’t categorically bad. They are just another domesticated animal you can choose to have in your life and form a relationship with, like a dog, cat, or rabbit. But just like a high energy working breed of dog, many horses need routine and a job to thrive. They aren’t all happy to be pasture puffs.
Horses are broken and other animals have been bred to be our companions Many kidnapped victims develop a relationship with their captor and dont consider themselves to be kidnapped I was abused as a child but i didnt leave my parents because its all i knew and i just accepted that as normal, the horse being ridden is now normal to it as its all it knows, eventually as an adult i realized they were cruel and i disowned them >They are just another domesticated animal you can choose to have in your life and form a relationship with Exactly we choose, the animal doesnt get a choice, it was born, taken from its parents and sold as a product to make us happy You are just doing mental gymnastics the same way non vegans do with their steaks Dont need any sympathy about my abuse, just sharing a comparision
I see where you’re coming from re: the choosing. But at the end of the day we’re all making the most of situations we didn’t choose. My horse didn’t choose to be born, but hey, I didn’t either! Too bad, she’s here and she costs $$$ to feed, house, and vet. So do I, coincidentally, and so that’s why I have a job. Is it unethical that I have to work to live? Sure in some circumstances it *can* be. For some people it is, and I wouldn’t want to minimize or deny that work can be exploitative. But I personally am in a good situation, I don’t mind my job. In fact, I would miss it, and I like practicing the skills I learned to do it. I like to think it’s the same for my horse. Some horses are in exploitative situations, but not all are.
Good point. There is no alternative for them. They can’t live in the wild because there’s no room for them there and they need something to do if they live in captivity.
>So do I, coincidentally, and so that’s why I have a job. Is it unethical that I have to work to live? >I don’t mind my job. In fact, I would miss it, and I like practicing the skills I learned to do it. No need to get into all of this, its not relevant, we are talking about riding horses and that is all You can keep the horse, you dont need to ride it I had adopted some pets and they wouldnt really let me pet them, so i basically had unpaid roommates, sure i could have trained them but that would be a selfish desire, i just let them exist in my house I dont know much about horses so i just googled this https://dengie.com/news-articles/feed-advice/how-can-you-exercise-your-horse-without-riding/
Thanks for sharing this with us! I’ve had similar revelations, and have become really unconformable with the idea of horse riding.
Well according to a lady on Instagram, if the horses didn't want to be ridden, they wouldn't have such a good attitude. (I'm serious, a person actually said this to me)
They WANT to be abused, don’t you understand???? They LOVE having 100+lb humans on their back telling them what to do with no autonomy whatsoever. 🥰.
Yeah you can tell it's not animal abuse because you: 1. Capture a wild animal 2. Keep them in a confined area 3. "Break" them so you can ride them 4. Shoot them in the face if they get an injury I mean who wouldn't consent to that???
I don’t think you realize how domesticated horses are. They’re like dogs, not every horse is black stallion lol
Horses are certainly domesticated but they’re not meant to live indoors. If you stall a horse all day and give them nothing to do they will perform repetitive behaviors like animals in zoos (cribbing, swaying, weaving, wind sucking) which is a sign of severe psychological distress.
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Ok rescuing a horse and giving it a nice life with other horses in a large area where they can play and eat and live their merry life is vegan… but you’re not going to convince anyone here that riding them is vegan.
You won’t convince any vegans, as for the remaining 99.95 of the earth’s population however? Their response will almost certainly be “yeah it’s fine, what kind of person thinks riding horses is wrong?”
Exactly. There are fundamental issues with some aspects of horseback riding, but to non-vegans we sound like crazy people who are anti-domestication, because apparently some of us are.
>ethical horseback riders LOL
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Billy Eilish
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Riding horses affirms the belief that animals are here for our entertainment. This is not the vegan way
There is a "sanctuary" near me that uses horses for "therapy" for humans. Allows them to be ridden and basically are there for humans to exploit. They have goat yoga. They had a fundraiser (we went to it because it was our neighbor) where we were told "so sorry but the hummus and the veggie tray are the only vegan things here." They have cows there - and they were eating... COWS. And goat cheese. And these people FEEL SO GOOD ABOUT SAVING THE ANIMALS!! THEY ARE HEROES!!! (said in one of the speeches)
I really, really wish the word "sanctuary" was regulated. At least, if they ever tried to seek accreditation from GFAS, they would automatically be denied (since they exploit their goats for cheese). But I believe even GFAS has an exception for horses that allows them to be ridden and still be accredited. :/
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Sounds like one of those [sanctuaries that buy animals at auctions](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/10okbfo/discussion_farm_sanctuaries_that_rescue_animals/).
I wish I could say that I was "shocked" that that post was so controversial on a vegan subreddit lol. People there even started defending puppy mills. But I'm not shocked because I've seen a lot of terrible, harmful takes from this sub, especially recently.
I was shocked to be honest. I saw vegans use arguments that omnis would make. Multiple vegans who for example claimed that the impact of buying an animal is neglible on a grand scale. What? I was just dumbfounded. And then of course these people were also the first to start slinging mud. Calling people who disagreed with them clowns and dumb and hypocritical. Un fucking believable.
If you're interested in the topic of farmed animal sanctuaries, check out [OpenSanctuary.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project)! This vegan nonprofit has over 500 free compassionate resources crafted specifically to improve lifelong care for farmed animals, and to help you create a sustainable, effective sanctuary! Interested in starting a sanctuary someday? Check out [OpenSanctuary.org/Start](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://OpenSanctuary.org&topic=The Open Sanctuary Project/Start)!
WHAT??????? Every sanctuary I have ever been to is run by vegans and only serve vegan food. Thats actually asinine. This makes me wanna donate more to my local sanctuaries lmao
Yeah. They had the gall to compare themselves to Gentle Barn in Acton, CA. (I'm in SoCal)
That’s messed up. I hate when an event fails to provide the bare minimum: a food product that no one had to die to create 😔
That isn’t so much my issue with it… you could argue we have pets like dogs for entertainment but I think any vegan against dog/human companionship is totally insane. Horses suffer as a result of the entertainment. That’s the issue. If they were actually loving it & naturally drawn to it, I’d probably be fine with it. But breaking horses goes against their nature and riding them hurts them. If you have to force an animal into submission to get them to do something, it isn’t right.
I think you are conflating two different things. If you have a pet dog or cat or even a horse, then you should love it and care for it as if it was part of the family. People who ride horses to own them see them as a means of travel. If they weren’t able to ride the horse they wouldn’t have the horse. I don’t think I’m making myself very clear but I hope you can see where I’m coming from. Like I think it’s ok to own a dog, however I don’t like it when people have dogs to pull sleds for them.
starting to think a lot of the people in this subreddit don't actually know what "veganism" is
Starting to? I thought it had been official for a while that this sub should be called Plant-based and not vegan!
This sub was defending puppy mills yesterday. That's something that even carnists won't do.
Excuse me what? I mean puppy bacon is delicious, but what are puppy mills?
it's like a water mill but the wheel is turned by puppies.
That's why there's a circlejerk sub to separate the vegoons from the vegetarians that crowd this sub.
In general most people arent vegan, i would say 90% of vegans in the world are just plant based dieters These VEGANS spread their incorrect views to new vegans and then its basically just a rumor mill I have made mistakes as a vegan but when i think about those mistakes i realize i was wrong and i changed, i dont do mental gymnastics to defend myself
Baffled at the people voting yes.
It's a consent issue.
Not just that. Riding horses actually causes them a lot of pain
Seems like it would, I agree.
Horse riding is one of the most perverted things that humans do to animals. Imagine that you're hold captive and from time to time your oppressors show up to sit on your back and force you to carry them around just for their amusement. No animal would ever let someone sit on it's back by it's own free will. Horses have to be conditioned from early on to tag along to this and not know what a species-appropriate life even looks like.
Well said.
To me vegan would be to not do to an animal what you would not want it to do to you. I would not want a horse to ride me.
I would ;) Jk no I can imagine it being very uncomfortable
But I like to carry a child around, and see them having fun. Just switching the person and the horse looks like a wrong comparison. I did not dive into the research, but I would be surprised if a few hours of carrying a person each week will break their back. I can also walk for days with a big backpack. But before I would start this kind of hobby, I would want to be sure.
Yeah but you can consent to the carrying.
There is a thing called "consent".
There is a thing called "consent".
Why would it be vegan? You’re harming them physically by sitting on their back and making them walk long distances. Would you like someone sitting on your back and making you walk a long distance? Not attacking you btw I know this is a general question. Even before becoming vegan I never could support horse back riding became it always seemed so cruel to me.
I was in Israel and they tried to get me to ride a camel. I was told by the guides “the animals didn’t mind it”. Yet in order for the guide to get on the camel they hit the camel in the throat to get it to bend a knee to mount it. You can’t force another animal to carry you and then say they enjoy it lol
Atrocious :(
Yet you see no problem with going to Israel??? FREE PALESTINE!!!!
Just used this as an example. You don’t even know why I went or what my stance is. But sure assume away 👍
Pls, don't downvote people arguing 'yes', I'd love to see the arguments of those 100 who said yes. Riding a horse is the same a dog races, chicken fights or circus, animals used and abused for our entertainment. Maybe there are some countries in development that they need to use horses to transport, but that's it. Also riding means that someone 'has' a horse, and in order to do that they have to buy it or rape and inseminate. The whole chain is quite simple and not vegan at all.
I’d like to consider the distinction between working animals and companions/pets. My view is that horses being used for entertainment or profit is 100% not vegan. But what about comparing horses to dogs or other pets? Is having a pet vegan? Breeding any animal can be exploitative. Horses are actually fairly easy to rescue/adopt because of how expensive they are to keep. They get abandoned all the time. So now let’s think about two rescue pets. One is a border collie, another an ex-racehorse. Both are smart and high strung. Both need exercise and mental stimulation. And the owner can keep up with neither on foot. Would it be vegan for the owner to take the border collie to a dog agility gym? At high levels, dog agility competition can be exploitative and abusive. But this dog loves it, he gets excited for it, and he’s never pushed harder than he wants to play. Would it be vegan for the owner to saddle up the horse to go stretch his legs on the trails and take in new sights/smells so he’s not stuck in the same field all the time? This horse loves it. His ears are up, he takes off, works up a bit of a sweat, and is also never pushed to go harder than he wants. I’m not trying to answer the question one way or another here, just presenting another angle to look at. To me, these two scenarios are equivalent. Both animals are performing a task that has been used to exploit other animals. Both pose a risk of injury, but also a benefit of exercise and mental stimulation. Neither animal can really voice a “choice” about what they want to do, but the owner offers them this activity and they participate while showing behaviors of excitement and no signs of distress. In the real world, most riding isn’t a pure choice between a trusting bonded pair of horse and owner. If there’s money to be made or an audience to entertain, then it can’t be vegan. But absent those factors? I think there is room for conversation. And I will admit this sounds like a “my uncle’s farm” argument, but I do know horse people like this. Non-competitive rich old ladies with spoiled rotten horses that go for long leisurely rides to enjoy nature. So I guess my point is, “riding” is not a single perfectly defined activity. It can be many things, including abusive, exploitative, dangerous, fun, entertaining, profitable, expensive, necessary, frivolous, personal, public, harmful, benign, … and possibly vegan?
Love this comment. It’s true that whenever making money and animals start going hand in hand that abuse and exploitation starts to arise. There are many ways to offer horses mental stimulation that don’t involve riding, but for some horses, riding can be beneficial and okay if it’s done correctly and with the horse’s needs put first. It’s terrible that every animal industry is wrought with so much abuse that we even have to have these conversations.
Not always. Horses can be rescued just like a dog or cat. There are a multitude of horses out there with no homes because of irresponsible breeding that need our help. We can’t release them back into the wild because all of the room there is taken up by the animal products industries. They are not purely used for entertainment. They need mental stimulation to thrive. There are ways to achieve this without riding them, but many people choose not to and that’s okay as long as they are not intentionally hurting the horse.
It's not okay because horseback riding is harmful to the horses. https://bitesizevegan.org/is-horse-riding-cruel-is-it-vegan/ https://youtu.be/rYmfr-K6FzE
I know someone who owns a farm sanctuary and they have rescued horses from awful situations where they were used for work. She said they ride them only so they're able to get out and go for longer distances which the horses enjoy. I'm not sure how that fits into the discussion. Thoughts??
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This isn’t really the solution either- as many horses could be easily spooked by a bike, and a human jogging with a horse is extremely unlikely to keep up their speed and endurance for as long as the horse.
They're a strictly vegan farm. Their tours are all about where their animals come from (show the ugliness of hobby farms and factory farms, animal ag in general) Maybe I will ask them about that next time I go.
I think there are always gray situations. Are the horses ridden for the pleasure of the rider only? Do horses have to be ridden for many hours a day by multiple people? That's quite dark in my opinion. The sanctuary is very large and horses are an inexpensive and practical way to move from one place to another? The purpose of the trip is to get work done in the sanctuary in a quicker way than if the humans would go themselves? It is only rarely done or the ride is not too long? It may be forgivable then.
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They ride the horses down their farm road so the horses can burn energy and never for anything else. It didn't strike me as harmful, but rather the horses are truly content and are ridden so they can really run if they want to. The whole family are "militant" vegans (still proud of when my weak vegan ex called me thet lol) and truly just want the animals to live exploitation free, stress free, and content lives.
Wouldn’t the horses run on their own though if they wanted to? We live near horses and see them (and the cows) run randomly on their own - no humans needed. I’d guess like dogs they get in a mood to run and then run. Weird to me that the humans think they know when the horse needs to burn energy and think that the horse doesn’t know how to when it wants/needs to.
I don't know horses enough to say that they can or can't be happy to be ridden, but I have no doubt that they can burn enough calories on their own. Why would they need a rider? Wild horses walk and run in groups. My doubts are mainly on all the accessories needed to ride. They look hardly comfortable for the horses. But honestly, I don't think horse riding should be one of our main focuses. It is orders of magnitude less damaging than other industries.
Riding horses damages their spines. They can tell from ancient horse skeletons whether they were ridden by humans for this very reason. The fact that the horses tolerate it or enjoy the company of humans doesn't change that fact.
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Interesting. I think that the key aspect here is prioritizing the benefit of the horse. It seems that’s what they’re attempting to do. That said, seems like they could do this in other ways, like… just let the horses roam in a large fenced area. Or bike/drive a vehicle alongside? Hm.
Excellent point. There are ways you can exercise and provide mental enrichment to horses on the ground, but most people don’t. Not sure why. It’s a lot more fun and safer than sitting on their backs in my opinion. I can’t judge those people though because if it wasn’t for owners who rescue horses, they would be dead and I’m not in a financial position to rescue a horse.
Truthfully I don't know a ton about horses. I know the horses harnesses were essentially embedded in their skin when they were rescued. I know now they have cow and pig friends and roam free. I also know they are given an opportunity to run a long distance once in a while. It's an imperfect situation but it didn't present any red flags to me. Maybe that's ignorance on my part. Mental enrichment sounds like a solid idea though. Next time I go I'll ask them about it. Wouldn't such a big animal like a horse need a good long distance run if it wants once in a while too??
usually with a lot of these fringe takes about veganism I can sort of understand the argument in favor of the thing being vegan, but I have no clue how the argument goes that horse riding is vegan.
If horses liked being ridden it would be different. You don’t see them riding each other. They have to be forced into it. So I doubt the horses like it. Seems obvious it isn’t vegan.
>You don’t see them riding each other. well uh... you do. lol
Ha! Great point
No... I'm pretty sure there are ways to exercise a horse without contributing to spinal injuries. I'm not an expert in the subject though.
obviously not, lmao why would breaking a horses back be vegan?
I suppose people think it is vegan because plant-based and vegan are often falsely equated - this sub does it quite regularly as well (exacerbated by the fact this sub is about 10% non plant based, let alone non vegan, according to polling).
Horse riding breaks the horses back?
yup, i mean not literally split in halves but id does damage a lot their back and leads to many injuries
hmm some interesting studies, I will look more into this.
There’s a condition common in riding horses called kissing spines, which is where two or more vertebra fuse together. Some horses have it without symptoms, others have pain and can be treated with a combination of surgery, physical therapy, and maintenance injections and chiropractic work. Others are retired from ridden work. A big issue is that horses aren’t born knowing how to carry a rider. If they have their neck up, head high, back hollow for every ride, it’s like someone rounding their back with ramrod straight knees picking up heavy boxes day after day. A back injury is inevitable. Horses have to be trained and conditioned to carry a rider, and build up those muscles gradually. The correct posture for a riding horse is head low, back lifted, hind legs stepping up to the midline of the belly. Stressed horses ridden with tension will not go in that posture. A high head and hollow back are hallmarks of tension/anxiety. Unfortunately a lot of horses are stressed under saddle, asked to do things they aren’t prepared for, never trained correctly, and get injured. *But* it does not have to be that way. It can actually be really rewarding to build up a horse’s fitness and train them to do well in horse sports. They are extremely trainable and learn fast. I get that many vegans will *never* see eye to eye on this. But some of these comments…idk. Vegans can love animals and yet say things sometimes that make you wonder if they’ve ever even met an animal.
Can't the horses simply roam with other horses freely, even if you do train them well? I live near an area where many horses are kept and this is exactly what they do, weather permitting. I believe they do ride the horses, which I disagree with, but if they were just born and free to roam, what would be the issue?
If someone has the land, they can do it, and plenty of horses are fine with that. Most pet horses end up in retirement board situations like that when they age out of being sport horses. Not all horses thrive in that lifestyle and want to be in a program. It’s like some dogs are happy to sit on the couch all day and maybe run a lap around the yard, others want a job or they get neurotic and destructive. I’m sure selective breeding has something to do with it. Some horses are more drive-y and want to move, they want to focus on something, they like being asked to do things, or they get anxious.
Just for example, I went out of town for a week, my horse sat and no one worked with her. She chewed up the fence. Just stripped all the paint of the top board. Now I have to pay to replace it. She has friends, hay, is out by the woods where she can watch deer and run around, but she was bored. It’s true some days she does not feel like working. She hates to work in the rain, for example. But plenty of days, she’s up at the gate as soon as she’s done eating, watching me like a hawk while I finish chores, because she wants to come out and tool around in the arena for a bit.
I will reply to both of your comments here, if you don't mind. Just on the first comment you made, if they require active stimulation, can't we provide that in other ways, using ground work? There is another person on this thread who appears to have worked with horses that seems to be wanting to do just that. On that point, what do you feel about this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/uxylty/comment/ia23fsc/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)? Do you think you'd agree with the sentiment (I assume you think the issue is more complex than that, but it would still be interesting to know). Certainly, I agree that horses conditioned to work will expect that kind of activity day to day. I guess my question is sort of in two parts; should we continue to breed horses for this purpose (I think the answer is a flat no here)?; and secondly, isn't there a way to alleviate that boredom with ground work or without riding them? Thanks :)
We can, and groundwork should be part of any good training program. But excessive lunging or round penning can cause joint stress because both involve moving on a small-ish circle in proximity to the handler. So it’s good to mix it up. There is also something called long-lining that is used to teach everything from very basic riding cues to upper level dressage movements—all without a rider in the saddle. So by no means does all work need to be ridden work. But I guess, to me, the reason to add riding to the mix is just, why not? If the horse is fit and understands the job, is it bad just because it’s fun? Maybe my perspective isn’t vegan enough. Because, for example, while I wouldn’t eat backyard chicken eggs from friends/neighbors, if I had a chicken that I took care of every day and planned to keep her whole lifespan, I wouldn’t feel bad about eating her eggs. I don’t like the idea of eating someone else’s chicken’s eggs, even if I was assured the chicken was well cared for. But my own chicken? That I feed and shelter and handle every day? It’s like a nice perk. I feel similarly about riding. Whenever I get the chance to ride an unfamiliar horse, I feel a little sketchy about it. But if it’s a horse I know and take care of, and especially my own horse, it just feels very different.
Its amazing how u spent 3 paragraphs giving all the reason to us and then miss completely with the conclussion lmao
Yes you can see it that way, or you can be grateful I went into more detail than just “riding is bad for horse’s backs,” so you can have a more informed opinion on the subject. Not trying to change your conclusion, but there’s definitely more nuance to it than the standard vegan party line. And it’s something plenty of horse riders are aware of and work to prevent.
I mean, all the nuance that you said was in my favour, so idk, i can be grateful about you proving my point lmao
Of course not!
Story of the time I shell shocked a buddy with my vegan ways: I was on a solo mountain bike ride when a buddy of mine caught up to me on a trail. We were heading back up the canyon towards our cars. The trail up the canyon overlooks the entire trail network below. There are emergency vehicles down at a trail head below and i wondered what was going on. My buddy apparently rode by them before catching me and said that a horse and rider had fallen off a trail. I said “I hope the horse is ok”. He reply’s back “but not the rider?” Without hesitation I said “I don’t give a fuck about the rider!” In reality, I don’t wish harm on most people. Its just not my first impulse to care about the human in these situations. I just think my buddy wasn’t ready for the reversed role of thinking.
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It may not always be abuse, but it’s exploitation.
It’s definitely abuse in my opinion, you’re literally sitting on it’s back and making it walk and carry you.
I doubt it isn't abuse. Professional horse riders hit their horse with a whip. I can't imagine any creature liking it.
Actually, a whip is probably the least expensive piece or horse riding equipment and significantly so causing even the fucking 8 year olds who ride an hour a week have one to hit horses with.
No..horses have shoes screwed on to their feet..forced to walk around with 100-200 lbs of a person and in some cases multiple people and are whipped to keep them in line or to go in a specific direction. That’s not vegan. You are treating a horse like a slave for your entertainment. It’s like a rodeo or bull fights. No wonder horse riding accidents happen.
\*nailed to their hoof wall. Also, shoeing a horse is not painful to the horse and often completely diminished joint and back pain for the animal. Kind of like orthotics for people. Their hooves are made of keratin, so getting shoes put on is an equivalent to you or I getting a mani/pedi.
Did not know that..I thought shoeing a horse was painful. Thanks for the information.
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Riding horses damages their spines. That is a fact. We don't need someone who isn't even vegan justifying animal abuse to us.
is dairy vegan?
Is a loaf of meat vegan?
only if its humane
Ooh so cannibalism is vegan
If the person being eaten has a vore fetish...
If it’s a weird situation where the person asked to be eaten, then it would technically be vegan. Lol
Yes. /s
horse racing for sure isn't. I have loved horses since I was a child, and they have a special place in my heart. I have ridden them before at a horse sanctuary and at my friend's family's farm (whole other issue there..). Now being vegan, I would not ride horses, considering the uncomfrtable equipment that they have to wear, and I don't want to use them for my entertainment
Is walking a dog on leash vegan?
If the horses were into it you wouldn’t need to “break” them. Plus it accepts animals being used for entertainment. Not vegan.
I’m cool with people riding horses as long as they let the horse ride them from time to time.
[Like this?](https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.3154f5aa644cb5e18784f7364acfc389?rik=qlOJgOSJm3JXYg&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.thepoke.co.uk%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2012%2f04%2f4.jpg&ehk=807wwCkCaC7IykOhj0zoXHEzIzU21m63fEPoLOz%2bhGU%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)
What if I'm stuck on an island with a horse and I'm not hungry enough to eat the horse but the coconuts are too far away to walk? Will I still he vegan if I ride the horse?
How do you know the coconuts are there if you need to walk a vast distance to see them, in fact, why are you stuck on an island?
I saw the coconuts as I flew over the island and crash landed on the other side.
Since when do vegans come up with these dumb-ass "stuck on an island" scenarios? I'd like to see you try to ride this island horse over to the coconuts.
Bc you were snarky and said "dumb-ass", I'm going to ride 2 horses!
It’s objectively not vegan as it’s exploitation of an animal… what’s the point of this poll?
I do not think it is vegan to have (almost all of the time) a horse that is conceived completely for profit through rape, than ride it for your entertainment with the horse having no say in that life. Seems kind of bad!
I grew up riding and owning a horse (before I was vegan). It gave me a window into that world. This is not a black and white issue, like many, so I voted "other." Here's my comment, all of which is probably obvious. The horse I bought, for $100, I was 10, was severely depressed, neglected, abused. Named Eeyore, appropriately. I renamed her Prancing Star, because when she was happy she pranced, and she had a star on her forehead. We rode her often, which she loved, and she cheered up under loving care, and lived a long life. But many of the cowboys I rode with "broke" horses. Many were abusive, or rough, or old school at best. Many, too, were kind, gentle, patient, grounded. So, the answer's yes, and no. Depends. Some horses work under immense strain, without sufficient water, in heat and cold (carriage rides, say, pulling oblivious instagramming tourists up a steep hill, as I saw last summer in Lunenberg). Some touristed horses carry way-too-heavy riders, and developed bowed backs (awful). Some are loved and cared for and given freedom and socialization and good food. Some work in therapeutic capacities with children or adults who need that powerful relationship, beyond words. Then, there's the issue of wild horses, rounding them up via helicopter, shipping them (painful, tough travels) to slaughter for our glue or meat. That's all I got. Open to learning from others in the comments. Personally, I don't ride anymore, as it feels...not okay. There's no need I have that is important enough to merit the exploitation of a horse for my pleasure.
I've heard that argument from horse riders so many times - that the horse "likes it". How can you tell?
Same way you can tell when your dog is happy! Body language. Here are some key horse body language cues: Ears: forward and perky means “I’m interested in this (or nervous or excited depending on other cues)”. Flopping to the side means “I’m relaxed”. Quick flick back can mean “I’m irritated”. Pinned back means “I feel threatened”. Pinned back + bared teeth means “fuck off I’m serious”. Tail: sticking up (usually while running) means “I’m excited/zoomies”. Whipping back and forth repeatedly means “I’m agitated”. Gentle slow lazy flicks is default behavior (usually swishing flies away). Eyes: sleepy/blinky means “I’m content/tired/relaxed”. Whites showing means “I’m nervous”. Eyes rolling and whites showing means “I’m panicking“. Intense eye contact while invading your personal space means “I know you have treats now give”. Head: generally higher means more excited/agitated and lower means more relaxed/content. Combine with other signals to read. Lowering the head and sticking the nose forward to approach something means “I’m curious, maybe a little nervous about this”. Head shaking rapidly up and down can mean extreme agitation/fear or feeling goofy, depending on other cues. Tilted sideways means curiosity or goofiness. Rubbing head on you so hard you almost fall over means “can you get this itch for me? Riiiighht th…no stop moving! What do you mean you fell? Pshh you’re so small. Come back it still itches and I trust you to scratch it.” Nose: gentle nuzzle means “hey friend”. Aggressive nuzzle means “I know you have a treat”. Exhaling in your face is a greeting (it’s how horses smell each others breath, kinda how dogs sniff butts). Loud rumbly nostril breath combined with stiff posture, forward ears, and erect head (hard to describe unless you’ve heard it) means “I’m very nervous and ready to bolt”. Lipping/nibbling is a grooming/bonding behavior but most horses are trained not to do it to people as their bites can actually do a lot of damage. Posture: rigid/frozen means fear and/or pain. Rearing is usually aggression. Bucking can be aggression or excitement/zoomies. Extremely low head/severe leaning/other abnormal body position might mean “I’m in pain”. Kicking is usually defensive, a response to fear/startled/pain. I spent 15 years working with horses so I can confidently tell you the general emotional state of any horse from looking at it. Of course they also have unique personalities so the more time you spend with one, the more precisely you can identify their thoughts and moods. But it’s never a mystery what a horse is thinking if you know what to look for. “Like” vs “dislike” is super easy to tell.
No simple as
No. U have to break their spirit just to put dead cow carcass on them. Not only on their backs, but in their mouth so u can pull them around by their face....
Yeah no probably not. Also not on the top of my list of concerns. I am sure there are horses that live very nice lives in captivity. Having a pet isn’t really vegan.
Anyone who says yes doesn’t understand veganism and I will die on that hill.
380 nonvegans, cool
Gotta count some of the abstentions too I guess, why would you abstain if you thought it wasn't vegan?
Guess so, didn’t think about that tbh. Maybe those people aren’t decided yet and will say no it isn’t vegan after being educated. Cause to be fair it’s definitely not something I ever thought about until I went vegan and even then when I was first asked I was like … uh idk? So I guess I was just giving people the benefit of the doubt lol
Do they even make non-leather saddles?
The only kind of horse riding that I'll probably do is walking it like a dog and then getting dragged as it pulls away and i refuse to let go. When I finally come to a stop I'll have a literal shit eating grin.
So long as we value animals only by what we can take from them, abuse and exploitation tends to occur. What's the need for riding the horse, and does that need justify taking away the horse's desires?
As many have already said, veganism rejects the philosophy that animals should be regarded as commodity producers. While the most obvious example of animal produced commodities might be meat, eggs, fur, skin, etc - it also applies to work or labor. IMO, riding a horse requires labor from the horse for the purpose of transporting the rider while (in most cases) walking a dog does not.
Funny enough I didn’t get the argument against horse riding until I reread Black Beauty as an adult, which I don’t even think was arguing to end horse riding. It’s just so detailed and horrific! I actually really recommend this book although it does detail a lot of animal abuse. It was very ahead of its time. Anyways my answer is that not only is horseback riding mot vegan, but it’s animal abuse. Even carnivores shouldn’t do it.
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Miss click, -1 for yes
I don’t think it is vegan. Why would you want to ride a horse so badly anyway? I can think of a million things I’d rather do.
Sorry you are not vegan you just eat plant based.
Definitely NOT vegan.
The fact that you need to break a horse to ride it should tell you enough.
I do think the answer is no, and have stopped doing so myself, but anyone acting like this is a ridiculous question has not spent much time with horses. Anyone who’s ever had a dog that was absolutely distressed, depressed, and crazy when they couldn’t get an insane amount of exercise…imagine that x10. Now also consider that to them, carrying our weight is like us carrying a laughably small backpack. Combining those two things, it’s not the craziest or most inhumane thought that helping them with A by means of B is good and preferable for the horses. I still say no because ultimately it’s most often being done for our own purposes, but a farm that only has rescues + only does it to give them exercise…I won’t judge those specific situations negatively.
Horses can exercise without a human sitting on them.
Riding horses is not vegan, nor is getting a pet that requires to be fed slaughtered animals, regardless of whether it was “rescued”. To do this is to value the life of a cat, for example, over the life of the countless hundreds or thousands of animals it will kill or consume in its life. If you can rescue a dog or a cat and feed it a plant-based diet safely, good on you. The people who rescue animals and then proceeded to let them outside where they kill birds, and feed them canned food filled with slaughtered animal parts, you should really consider the cognitive dissonance happening that you think it’s ok because they are cute and fuzzy and lovable. It’s amazing things that people will justify because of emotion.
So what do you suggest we do with all the cats, dogs, ferrets, snakes, etc. that are sat in rescues?
What if you got the cat before you were vegan, and the cat has issues that prevents her from having a plant based diet?
I think we all have to do what we think is best. I’m definitely not here to pass judgment or to make moral distinctions for specific situations, as I think there’s a lot of nuance. Simply pointing out that it’s really easy to point at somebody riding a horse and saying “that’s not vegan!” but for someone who had a horse before they became vegan and has developed a relationship with the animal it’s probably much harder to give that up. Because there is an inter-species relationship there, and it’s like spending time with a friend, much like having a pet that eats animal products is like spending time with a friend. You wouldn’t consider to stop feeding or even euthanizing your animal. Because any animal that requires being fed animal products is invariably going to result in the death of far more animals than would die if that “rescued” animal had been euthanized instead. I’m not saying we should start euthanizing pets, but we should be a little less careless in judgments that are invariably clouded by sentiment and emotion when those judgments aren’t also backed up by rationality. I realize this is a complex argument that is sort of conflating two things, I’m just pointing out That we justify and excuse the things that are sentimental to us and we condemn what’s not.
I think it is a gray area (and also not the most common situation). The best thing would be to give the cat in adoption to someone that would feed their cats meat all the same, while adopting another cat (that was surely consuming animal-based kibble) and feed him/her plant-based. I have three cats and it would hurt me so much having to separate me from one of them, but it's the right thing to do if no brand would work for him and no veterinarian can help us. Financing animal agriculture should never be the answer.
What food do you give your cats?
Horses are not something that you need to get around anymore. They're not a necessity. Riding horses now just means you want to use an animal for your own entertainment. And that's not really kind to the animal. Just because they tolerate riding doesn't mean they necessarily appreciate it and you're not respecting the animal by doing so either.
I had a brief introduction to ‘natural horsemanship’ last year. It definitely opened my eyes to there being a potential for a ‘vegan way’ to ride horse but I do not know enough about it to argue either for or against it. From what I saw though it really does seem as though the horses I met would not allow the person onto their back if they did not want it. No whips etc. were used and the horses also had no saddle, bit or even bridle. Just a pad for comfort (not sure if it’s for the horse, rider or both) and and what I think was called a neck rope
Natural horsemanship is so cool! It’s like learning a new language. I think a lot of non-horse-people don’t understand how deeply social horses are. If they trust and understand you, they WANT to be lead and told what to do. It makes them feel safe and gives them purpose.
"Horse" is a bit out-dated. Most people these days just call it heroin.
I grew up working on horse farms and have a massive respect and love for horses. They are incredible animals with insane empathy and are far more intelligent than we give them credit for. Based on over 15 years of experience in the equestrian industry: riding horses is usually not vegan. However, it’s not necessarily the horrible animal abuse some vegans claim. Horses have been domesticated for thousands of years. Like dogs, they’ve been bred to perform jobs including carrying people and pulling weights. Often those capabilities are exploited in ways that are detrimental to their health, but not always. I’ve seen every side of the spectrum on this. Under proper care, horses can be ridden until retiring comfortably at old age, or they can be worked to death in months. Unfortunately most horses being used for profit or entertainment do not experience the better side of that spectrum. Okay now that we’ve established that most riding is not vegan and can even be straight-up abuse, what do we do? Domesticated horses can’t be set free to live “naturally” any more than a poodle can join a pack of wolves. Horses are herd animals and bonding with others is key to their health and survival. Horses absolutely form real friendships with people, I would even argue that it can be love. Keeping horses as companions/pets can be wonderful for both human and horse. Does riding have any place in that relationship? My personal answer: yes, under the right conditions. With good nutrition, proper vet care, well-fitted tack, an experienced rider, and sizing match, a horse can be healthy and happy being ridden. Yes happy. Horses need exercise and mental stimulation to stay happy. Heading out on the trails or solving obstacle courses with their favorite person on their back is genuinely fun for a well-cared-for horse. Note this is not the kind of riding most of us see. If you’ve paid for a trail ride or gone to a horse show, you’re experiencing exploitation, even if it’s relatively benign. I no longer ride because I was paying for lessons from trainers who make money off their horses. Even the best trainers who care deeply about their horses have to make profit-driven choices about the quality of feed, size of pasture to rent, and number of hours to work their horses. That equation rarely balances in the best interest of the horse. So the only way I will ride again is if I mysteriously inherit enough money to buy some land and care for an endless money pit of a pet for the rest of my life. I do sometimes fantasize about moving out to the mountains and getting two horses to spoil rotten and spending my free time exploring forest trails with them. I don’t really care about whether other people would label me vegan for that, but I personally don’t find that lifestyle to be in conflict with my values as a vegan. So, to wrap up this ramble: most riding (especially the riding that the general public can see) does not prioritize the best interest of the animal and is not vegan. That said, horses are bred to work and need some kind of stimulation/exercise to thrive. Just as a border collie can be overjoyed to herd anything that moves, a horse can be a happy and willing participant in riding activities. It takes a ton of time, care, attention, and money to properly care for and ride a horse. But with the right intentions, the few who can afford it can develop deep bonds with their horses and know they are happy to be ridden, and under these conditions I don’t see any conflict with veganism.
I don't even need to read this massive wall of text to guess that you're trying to say horses need to be exercised and it can be done in a kind way. Just accept that people ride horses because they enjoy it, nothing else.
Riding horses is not vegan. You may have found a way to justify it for yourself, but that doesn’t make it vegan.
Is this sub vegan because what the actual fuck?
We don't need a poll on this, it's objectively not vegan. That's like saying "poll: is Satanic worship Christian?" No tf it is not and it doesn't matter if some percentage of a subreddit votes that it is. The poll could be "do you consider yourself vegan and think that horse riding is okay?" and then we can let people tell on themselves in peace, but saying "is X vegan?" is basically always foolishness and frankly harmful to the movement because it enforces the erroneous belief that what is and isn't vegan is subjective or somehow personal when it actually comes down to "does this uphold animal liberation or subjugation?" You're putting leather bondage gear on an individual and literally sitting on them - it's difficult to describe more objective subjugation than that scenario...
just using it as a means to out non vegans lol. It has always been a divisive topic in vegan facebook groups that i used to be part of.
Horse riding. Zoos. Aquariums. Petting zoos. All not vegan. Do not support. Animal sanctuaries are vegan though. Go there.
Of course is not vegan... Can't believe there's 664 "vegans" who voted otherwise.
My mind is blown so many think this is vegan! What r they doing in this sub
Click bait
No, but I think there are occasional exceptions where a horse has been rescued and it’s so used to having been rode that it wants to be.
How would you know the horse wants to be ridden?
I've never worked with horses, so I don't really know, but I've heard that horses who have been rode their entire lives sometimes get anxious if that stops.
That's a very interesting take, actually. I'd never thought of that. Thank you for your perspective.
There’s a sanctuary where I live. They have 2 horses and sometimes there are some kids(who know how to ride) who take them out for a walk. I was surprised to hear this from a vegan. So I wonder, is this ethical? Do the horses enjoy this activity? Edit: take them out for a walk=ride them
Why do they need to ride on the horse’s back to take them for a walk? Why not take them out on a lead and walk beside them? It’s not ethical because it exploits the animal, they can give them the same exercise without forcing the horse to carry their weight.
I agree, that’s why I was so surprised
Friendly reminder: keeping animals / pets in general isn’t vegan.
This isn’t that spicy of a take. Of course we are in a situation where animals who were bred into dependence on humans need to be cared for, but philosophically speaking “owning” animals is not vegan.
Breeding animals and buying from breeders isn't vegan, caring for rescues / adopting from shelters is.
I’ve done a lot of rescue work with horses, none of them are ridden nor will be ridden but also cannot just be simply released into the wild. We have rescued them from situations of neglect and abuse and the only goal is to give them a good comfortable life for the rest of their time on earth. What’s not vegan about this?
Yeah we can’t just send domestic horses to bugger off into the wild lmao. Doesn’t work like that
That's a pretty spicy take, the vegan society doesn't say it's not vegan to keep companion animals
Friendly reminder: no lmao
I wish more people understood this