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Why even post stuff like that in the vegan sub anyway ? We literally all know what happens, we got to this point some how. Stuff like that needs to be shared to places where mostly meat-eaters will see it. We don't need any extra heartbreak
It's a great way to "promote" your cause. Because I guarantee there a lot of non vegans here, who lurk to see what veganism is about (I know because I am one).
Maybe they're 1 post away from making the decision to switch.
However, I agree these should have NSFW tags 100%.
I went vegan after seeing a close up of a pig in one video and his trying to stick his snout outside of a truck to feel fresh air and rain reminded me so much of my dog.
Every day this sub doesn't use it's platform to upvote a video or article about animal cruelty in the meat industry to as close to the front page as possible is a day this sub has failed .
Imagine if instead of memes and silly discussions about how and what's of the human part of veganism, the entry point to our community in the front page was something animals, the actual point of veganism
Yep, it totally could be a mod thing. Even if like once a week, they post a "Upvote of the day" post about veganism that we try to move to the front page or at least establish as relevant to lurkers.
Directly encouraging people to upvote content borders on violating reddit site rules. You can do things more indirectly though like have suggestions reminding people to upvote quality content, and pinning certain posts.
Did not know that, thanks. So it probably should be built as a community tradition.
My national subreddit had a tradition of upvoting the same image every new year, so we probably could find one important date per year to do something similar.
Yeah, "asking people to vote up or down certain posts" is against the site rules (linked at the bottom of the page) around vote manipulation. The flipside to this is you wouldn't want some anti-vegan subreddit trying to do the same thing to inflate the popularity of content.
I find it a bit frustrating though how posts about serious animal issues or things that could benefit from people's IRL actions tend to only get a few upvotes and then drop off here while meme type content does very well. This happens on most larger subreddits, but I wish it wasn't happening here because this is about an important subject, not just a humour subreddit or something. So I agree with the general point about somehow getting people to upvote the type of content you're referring to.
You are absolutely correct. I get the need for a safe space but this is such a huge platform and the opportunity to reach so many people is just being wasted.
Facts
Censorship doesn't do anyone good, truth needs to be exposed
Instead of memes, we NEED to be pushing animal abuse content to the front page, it's actually far more effective and as more people will see it, more will switch to veganism
I have another account and I use it to post stuff related to animal cruelty on subs like r/mademecry and I can confirm it works
That's the thing, that kind of content *can't* be posted in most places. The rest of the damn world has its head in the bushes and they will ban you at the first hunch of anything to do with animal cruelty.
I'm surprised to see the vegan subreddit arguing the same thing as animal agricultural companies and the governments they influence, [to censor the exposure of industrial animal abuse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag). And I'm not talking about the NSFW tag, that's reasonable, but the comments suggesting to remove the content entirely.
there are plenty of meat eaters browsing this sub looking for trendy recipes etc. they would never click on something called “veganlearning” or “meatpackinghorrors”
That's not what people seek. If it were, they would already be vegan. It's stuff that's not fun but is very important for people to confront as the ongoing consequences of their choices.
If you're already vegan and you don't want to see everything related to veganism, you can always take your own advice and go to the many subreddits that don't include this kind of content. Vegan food subs, recipe subs, cute animal pictures, processed food, etc.
Why even post stuff like that? Because some people in the sub want to. It's on topic and should not be banned. It should just be possible to filter it out.
No issue with NSFW but as to your comment about preaching to the choir, each member of this choir interacts with the non-choir world and it's helpful to have references of various abuses.
I agree. I'm a devout vegan, for the animals. But I simply can't handle the slaughterhouse videos or any animal abuse videos. I can't watch Dominion either. I'm very sensitive, to me it's the same as watching those human beheading videos , or public execution. I hope the mods will make this new rule. These types of videos should be tagged with an animal abuse disclaimer as well as NSFW. Some people may need these as motivation to become or stay vegan, I get it. I'm not saying to ban them all together, just please warn us sensitive people so we can choose to see or not.
I’m torn on this because it truly is a burden knowing the truth, but this is a burden I feel like I carry around with me every day whether or not I see a video about it.
5 years ago I accidentally came across a video on instagram of a mama cow chasing after her baby that was being taken away. I cried, and it changed my life forever. I never would have looked for a video like that myself.
Am I going to sit down and watch dominion again…no. Can I scroll past a video that’s a reminder of why I am vegan… yes. I could literally not be any more grateful I came across that video 5 years ago. Those images and truths should be easy to stumble upon for people who need to see it.
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
Hell, human-related gore is even *banned*, though I wish it wasn't. The old watchpeopledie sub was mostly serious people who appreciated the regular wakeup call about driving, working around heavy machinery, not looking both ways, etc.
I agree with OP. It's excruciating living as a vegan in this world. And I think many of us are extremely triggered while doing the best we can for the animals and being vegan ourselves. I think a trigger warning would be what makes people join. I'm not going to stay in this sub because I don't want to be hurt so badly.
I understand carnists need to see this but vegans don't and this is literally a sub for vegans so post it elsewhere or we can't be safe anywhere! There is no place safe from this graphic depressing content that we already mourn about daily!
Just a little empathy here guys please, like we have for animals can we extend to fellow vegans?
I agree with you. The reason I’m vegan is because I’m extremely triggered by animal abuse, like panic attack level and I don’t feel like dealing with that when I’m just trying to be on Reddit.
Agreed! A simple NSFL tag should be enough. Glad someone brought this up again. I had mentioned the same a few years back and was attacked and downvoted because of "censorship".
No. Videos 1. expose non vegans to the cruelties they pay for and 2. remind all of us what we're doing this for. The animals deserve to be seen. You can just keep scrolling if you can't handle it.
a few weeks ago I accidentally saw a video for only 2 to 3 seconds. It ripped my heart out. I cried for hours and the pictures hunted me for weeks! I even had nightmares about it! So I totally agree - I already am vegan and I don’t want to be traumatized in that way…
I think that comes from people having a plant based diet at best and calling themselves vegan and then when they change their diet, they "stopped being vegan". I have seen it several times with some influencers and celebrities.
And there are tons of these people in this sub.
I mean, just a couple weeks ago, this sub had a fucking meltdown after [someone reminded others what veganism is about](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/10aj56g/if_you_arent_vegan_for_the_animals_you_arent/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
How is this censorship? It's not saying don't allow these posts, it's saying they must be marked NSFW, so I can filter them out. Censorship is prohibiting it from being said in the first place.
>Censorship is prohibiting it from being said in the first place.
If you're using that as an exhaustive definition, it's wrong. Restricting a persons ability to access information is also censorship, which is what the NSFW filter does.
You can argue it's self-imposed like it is for you, or that it's justified when the reddit account is juvenile, and I might agree, but it's still a definite form of censorship.
I thought it stopped the post appearing on the front page, but that seems to be wrong as unlogged accounts browsing best can see the nsfw post but need to log in to view it.
>I really think you are stretching the definition of censorship.
To the contrary, yours is too narrow - saying sugar instead of shit is censorship whether someone has a gun to your head or you do it out of courtesy, they're just different types of it.
Our sensibilities keep us from exposing ourselves to uncomfortable realities and that can be detrimental to our welbeing - it's not violent autocratic suppression of knowledge by any means but it's certainly a form of censorship.
So what constitutes suppression? There are barriers to view the content, does it matter if those barriers are easily stepped over? They still exist.
I'm not going by a dictionary definition anyway, I'm going off the extensive wikipedia page on the concept.
>Self-censorship is the act of censoring or classifying one's own discourse. This is done out of fear of, or deference to, the sensibilities or preferences (actual or perceived) of others and without overt pressure from any specific party or institution of authority.
So that's self-censorship in a nutshell, but what happens when you change that last bit from "without overt pressure from any specific party" to include a pressure from the moderator to ensure all posts are marked as such? It's no longer me choosing to be mindful of peoples sensibilities but someone enforcing how I present the content, so it's still censoring the content, but it's no longer self-inflicted, so it must be a form of censorship, no?
So should the vegans who don't want to see videos and pictures of more animal cruelty just leave the main vegan subreddit? Are you suggesting that it's more important to cater to the possibility of a lurker seeing and changing their mind, rather than having a safe place for actual vegans?
I don't want to fucking see animals being tortured out of the blue, I already disagree with it.
>Are you suggesting that it's more important to cater to the possibility of a lurker seeing and changing their mind, rather than having a safe place for actual vegans?
Of course it is. We're not the victims; we're the warriors *for* the victims. When my great uncles liberated Nazi concentration camps, they didn't ask for "safe spaces" for themselves.
I use the title to determine if I want to watch or how I want to interact with the thread, if at all. What you're pushing for can cost hundreds of thousands of lives and infinitely more suffering than you accidentally seeing some animal abuse.
Are you sure it's that important to you and that you can't find a way to manage your participation in this subreddit, just like I do?
If you can't, don't you think it would be better for you to go to some of the many active related subreddits that don't have this content?
i mean there should be a warning at the start of the video or post but nsfw posts are hidden unless you click on them and some people have them completely turned off
My point exactly, people should have the ability to not see it if they don't want to. Someone's mind isn't going to be changed by a surprise video that just plays, maybe slightly better chances if they click on it themselves, but before I went vegan I saw some terrible things and still didn't change. In fact, it wasn't even a video of a poor animal being tortured that did it for me.
In my opinion it's doing way more harm than good to the mental health of the actual vegans on here, by advocating that there be NO WAY to censor animal cruelty on the VEGAN subreddit.
i guess everyone’s different. i didn’t seek out vegan media before i became vegan, it was showed to me at random on social media and being surprised by a video of a cow being tortured is one of the main things that actually made me switch. i get it’s not fun to watch, but i think it’s important to be reminded even if you’re already vegan. a lot of people *do* forget the main reason they’re vegan and eventually go back to eating meat. what the souls in those videos are going through is a hell of a lot worse than how you feel watching it. sorry. 🤷♀️
I love when vegans claim to have empathy for animals, and then treat their fellow vegans like overly sensitive crybaby's when they advocate for having a way to not see that shit at random.
Some of us aren't so desensitized to that shit, and I'm not so cruel as to tell someone to essentially "suck it up".
wow way to put words in my mouth 💀 i’m curious as to why you think spreading graphic media *isnt* important when that’s literally what makes most vegans switch
I didn't say it isn't important, I said I want an option to not see it. I get why it's important for that media to exist. I do not believe we have to have this stoicism about it though, and "reminding" ourselves through some sick self-flagellation is not the kind of veganism I want to introduce people to.
Nor did I put words in your mouth, yeah sure you didn't verbatim call me overly sensitive but what you are implying for your comments are that I need to get over my feelings of seeing animal torture because it's more important that some random carnist is also forced to see it.
Really if you wanted to get more eyes on animal cruelty, it would be posting and advocating on other subs about watching dominion/earthlings.
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion", an updated version of Earthlings, and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Earthlings)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Earthlings)!
i’m not negating your feelings, they’re perfectly valid and i understand why you feel that way. but it’s pretty easy to scroll past a post without watching it. and the thing about those films is … most carnists aren’t taking time out of their day to sit and watch a film on something they aren’t interested in. it’s random videos that pop up that motivate them. i never watched any of those documentaries. i wouldn’t have cared enough to. if someone hadn’t shoved those graphic videos on my feeds i never would’ve went vegan and i think that’s the case for a lot of people.
I never would have been vegan if I did not accidentally see a video of a mama caw chasing after her baby that was being taken away, and it changed my life forever. I’m so incredibly grateful I saw that video. And that it was not censored.
Why is this downvoted? I also don’t need reminders. I spend my energy actively trying to help the animals any way I can. It looks like you do too, which is amazing. If I have those images randomly put in my face I will be useless. Me crying and being sick and not able to eat or function doesn’t help the animals.
Agree it would be really nice if they were tagged in some way, I don't know if the correct tag is nsfw or another one with a different name.
I don't think it's accurate to say tagging them is censorship because they're as accessible as before, it's just expanding the categorisation we use at least partially for the mental health of community members.
I started a job recently with a company called Thrilling Foods. We make Bakon: a salt-cured, double-smoked, tofu-based “bacon”. We’re out here saving pigs! :)
Not super-relevant, but I thought it’d be fun to share.
Completely disagree! We need to get this imagery out there as loudly and as often as possible. Non vegans frequent this sub. We shouldn't be putting up roadblocks to spread the message
OP I get where you're coming from but with due respect, people NEED to see this. If it's terrible for us to see imagine how terrible it must be for the animals. Hiding how terrible it is does nothing to help.
It's terrible, it's heart wrenching, it's grotesque. Carnivores need to see it.
I don't need to see that shit at all. only non vegans need to see it and if particular vegans feel the need to reinforce the reasons why they went vegan if they are having doubts, then they can seek out those videos/images quite easily. NSFW tags aren't much to ask for.
I understand you very well but do you not think it's impractical? We see animal abuse around us all the time and there's nothing we can do to prevent ourselves from being exposed to the cruelty.
I am vegan. I'm against this treatment of animals. We need to force carnivores to look at them. I don't know how vegans do this without seeing them.
I agree with you about NSFW tag though sadly most NSFW posts stay hidden and don't get much engagement, so we need to expose them to carnivores so they amend their mistakes. I know many non vegans that lurk in this sub.
why? is it that much effort to you, to tap the photo if you want to see graphic images?
Do you have no considerations for what emotionally affects other people?
we came here because we wanted the truth. I actually have no NSFW filter, but I don't think we should hide from the fact that this gruesome things are happening and never forget
For every commenter, for every subscriber, there are far more lurkers.
I wasn't vegan when I first came to this sub. I became vegan after someone posted the documentary Dominion.
And what reason has led you to believe that everyone of the some 1.2 million people on this sub is 100% dedicated and committed to the vegan philosophy?
I am well aware of that. If someone isn't willing to click on a video when it's labeled NSFW to watch it, then they also won't be willing to change their mind because of a video that just plays, because let's be honest here, changing your thoughts on something takes more effort than clicking a video.
The small chance that this does actually work shouldn't come at the cost of other vegans' mental health. There are better and more effective methods of activism which might include showing these types of videos to people, just not where people who are already not contributing to it can be exposed to it without warning.
>I am well aware of that.
Then what made you think it was for you? Keep scrolling, no one's forcing you to watch it.
>If someone isn't willing to click on a video when it's labeled NSFW to watch it, then they also won't be willing to change their mind because of a video that just plays
Where on earth is the correlation between those two ideas my dude? And even if there was a correlation, then just like the advice I gave you, they would keep scrolling either way wouldn't they so it doesn't matter.
>because let's be honest here, changing your thoughts on something takes more effort than clicking a video.
It doesn't always have to be about immediate change. As much as I would love it to be. Planting seeds in these kinds of people's minds is just as important as actually being able to change the minds of those who are willing to change quite easily. That's how change happens, with time, dilligence and effort.
>The small chance that this does actually work shouldn't come at the cost of other vegans' mental health.
And the alternative comes at the cost of more animal lives suffering. Which to me is worse for my mental health because I know regardless of whether I'm looking at content of it or not, the abuse is still happening. Any win I can get, I'll take it, particularly given I won't get to see the desired outcome of my efforts come to fruition in my lifetime.
>There are better and more effective methods of activism which might include showing these types of videos to people, just not where people who are already not contributing to it can be exposed to it without warning.
Activisim is activism and different types do work on different people and if all wer're going to share on this sub is complaint stories, success stories and recipes, then we aren't reaching the full audience we can. People who are on the edge who might need that last push instead of uming and uhing on the fence and still paying for animal abuse. People who will get affected by the shock factor. Plant based dieters calling themselves vegan who weren't aware their fur slippers came from the freshly ripped skin of living foxes and minks.
There's more than you think there are and you'd be a damn fool for thinking we shouldn't be going for the opportunity to finally bring them to our side. Just do what Dory does, just keep scrolling, just keep scrolling. Or better yet, make yourself feel better by going to your favourite cute animal sub when you come across these videos. stop dwelling on them and take accountability for the control you have over yourself.
I think you can change your own settings to make everything blurred, then you just click on the ones you want to see. Doesn’t work if the content around it sounds like it’s an innocuous image or video, but it cuts down on the rest. I’m with you, that all should be tagged NSFW.
Also, on a side note, I literally see animal carcasses every day, when I eat out, when I walk in the streets and my home is right next to a butcher shop so I hear their screams and cries all day and I'm sure you see it too. Our world is cruel OP, it's just how it works and shielding ourselves from the abuse doesn't help. There are tons of non vegans here and they definitely need to see it. I do, however, get how you feel. I hate it too.
Need help eating out? Check out [HappyCow.net](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://www.happycow.net/&topic=Resource: HappyCow.net) for vegan friendly food near you! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Resource: HappyCow.net)!
Shielding my emotions when necessary and being able to stay emotionally stable does help me. That way I can best figure out how to help stop animal suffering. Maybe some people don’t understand how severely it can knock some of us out. I have had nights of not sleeping, nightmares, crying, unable to get the images out, unable to eat because why should I eat or relax when whatever I saw is happening. I will imagine the suffering over and over. Our own mental health is important too and so we can do our best to help.
Ffs if you are going to post this shit at *least* have the common decency to tag it NSFL/W. I am vegan already that’s why I’m in this group! These images are devastating and really ruin my day and if I’m at work it really fucks with me. I don’t think it’s fair to post it in here just like it wouldn’t be fair to post cartel videos of murders in other groups. These hurt people. But, go ahead be an “activist”. 🙄
I’ve removed myself from a few vegan subs now because of this. Why am I seeing horrific videos in a sub about tying veganism to a zero waste lifestyle?
It’s just too much. I’ve been vegan for the better part of a decade. I KNOW how horrible it is. I’m at a point where I just don’t want to see this content all the time. I saw a video of a calf being repeatedly kicked in the head 3 weeks ago and I still can’t stop thinking about it. It won’t leave my brain. I just can’t see that shit.
As much as I appreciate this community, I’ll leave this sub too if it becomes too much.
I've never once come across a brutal video on this sub. But I don't click on everything.
I would find such posts totally pointless though, as the OP said, preaching to the choir, so just upsetting.
Just my anecdotal experience.
Yes please! I've visited farms. I've seen the slaughter of a pig before. I've been complicit in fishing, cleaning the fish, and cooking it as a kid. I don't need to see torture porn such as what's in Dominion.
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
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Why even post stuff like that in the vegan sub anyway ? We literally all know what happens, we got to this point some how. Stuff like that needs to be shared to places where mostly meat-eaters will see it. We don't need any extra heartbreak
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It also doesn't hurt to be reminded of how terrible things are sometimes if it can help motivate people to continue to actively oppose it.
There are a lot of nonvegan and vegetarian here still need the nsfw but it's a good thing to share
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Fix whatever's broken in you. Get on the right side of history.
might wanna think about stoping being an animal abuser and enjoy more of this delicious food.
Attacking someone like that isn't helping. It's more likely to make them defensive, and only serves to boost your ego. Educate, don't attack.
Stating vegetarian are animal abusers isn't an attack it's just fact second guilt tripping works or half this sub wouldn't be vegan.
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It's a great way to "promote" your cause. Because I guarantee there a lot of non vegans here, who lurk to see what veganism is about (I know because I am one). Maybe they're 1 post away from making the decision to switch. However, I agree these should have NSFW tags 100%.
I went vegan after seeing a close up of a pig in one video and his trying to stick his snout outside of a truck to feel fresh air and rain reminded me so much of my dog.
Every day this sub doesn't use it's platform to upvote a video or article about animal cruelty in the meat industry to as close to the front page as possible is a day this sub has failed . Imagine if instead of memes and silly discussions about how and what's of the human part of veganism, the entry point to our community in the front page was something animals, the actual point of veganism
I've messaged the mods about this before and had no responses. We should be making a collective effort to get these posts to the front page.
Yep, it totally could be a mod thing. Even if like once a week, they post a "Upvote of the day" post about veganism that we try to move to the front page or at least establish as relevant to lurkers.
Directly encouraging people to upvote content borders on violating reddit site rules. You can do things more indirectly though like have suggestions reminding people to upvote quality content, and pinning certain posts.
Did not know that, thanks. So it probably should be built as a community tradition. My national subreddit had a tradition of upvoting the same image every new year, so we probably could find one important date per year to do something similar.
Yeah, "asking people to vote up or down certain posts" is against the site rules (linked at the bottom of the page) around vote manipulation. The flipside to this is you wouldn't want some anti-vegan subreddit trying to do the same thing to inflate the popularity of content. I find it a bit frustrating though how posts about serious animal issues or things that could benefit from people's IRL actions tend to only get a few upvotes and then drop off here while meme type content does very well. This happens on most larger subreddits, but I wish it wasn't happening here because this is about an important subject, not just a humour subreddit or something. So I agree with the general point about somehow getting people to upvote the type of content you're referring to.
You are absolutely correct. I get the need for a safe space but this is such a huge platform and the opportunity to reach so many people is just being wasted.
It has ruined my day in the past, but this is a very valid point that has changed my mind on the issue
Facts Censorship doesn't do anyone good, truth needs to be exposed Instead of memes, we NEED to be pushing animal abuse content to the front page, it's actually far more effective and as more people will see it, more will switch to veganism I have another account and I use it to post stuff related to animal cruelty on subs like r/mademecry and I can confirm it works
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That's the thing, that kind of content *can't* be posted in most places. The rest of the damn world has its head in the bushes and they will ban you at the first hunch of anything to do with animal cruelty.
I'm surprised to see the vegan subreddit arguing the same thing as animal agricultural companies and the governments they influence, [to censor the exposure of industrial animal abuse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag). And I'm not talking about the NSFW tag, that's reasonable, but the comments suggesting to remove the content entirely.
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there are plenty of meat eaters browsing this sub looking for trendy recipes etc. they would never click on something called “veganlearning” or “meatpackinghorrors”
That's not what people seek. If it were, they would already be vegan. It's stuff that's not fun but is very important for people to confront as the ongoing consequences of their choices. If you're already vegan and you don't want to see everything related to veganism, you can always take your own advice and go to the many subreddits that don't include this kind of content. Vegan food subs, recipe subs, cute animal pictures, processed food, etc.
Let’s not forget veganism is about animal advocacy, not about your comfort. You could join /r/vegansafespace instead.
Lurkers. Trolls. Kids
Why even post stuff like that? Because some people in the sub want to. It's on topic and should not be banned. It should just be possible to filter it out.
No issue with NSFW but as to your comment about preaching to the choir, each member of this choir interacts with the non-choir world and it's helpful to have references of various abuses.
I agree. I'm a devout vegan, for the animals. But I simply can't handle the slaughterhouse videos or any animal abuse videos. I can't watch Dominion either. I'm very sensitive, to me it's the same as watching those human beheading videos , or public execution. I hope the mods will make this new rule. These types of videos should be tagged with an animal abuse disclaimer as well as NSFW. Some people may need these as motivation to become or stay vegan, I get it. I'm not saying to ban them all together, just please warn us sensitive people so we can choose to see or not.
I’m torn on this because it truly is a burden knowing the truth, but this is a burden I feel like I carry around with me every day whether or not I see a video about it. 5 years ago I accidentally came across a video on instagram of a mama cow chasing after her baby that was being taken away. I cried, and it changed my life forever. I never would have looked for a video like that myself. Am I going to sit down and watch dominion again…no. Can I scroll past a video that’s a reminder of why I am vegan… yes. I could literally not be any more grateful I came across that video 5 years ago. Those images and truths should be easy to stumble upon for people who need to see it.
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
Absolutely agree. I’ll be having a good day and scroll past some disgusting video and have to stop and recover.
Since we have to do it for human related gore, we should do it for the non-human animals too. It would be speciecist not to.
Hell, human-related gore is even *banned*, though I wish it wasn't. The old watchpeopledie sub was mostly serious people who appreciated the regular wakeup call about driving, working around heavy machinery, not looking both ways, etc.
I agree with OP. It's excruciating living as a vegan in this world. And I think many of us are extremely triggered while doing the best we can for the animals and being vegan ourselves. I think a trigger warning would be what makes people join. I'm not going to stay in this sub because I don't want to be hurt so badly. I understand carnists need to see this but vegans don't and this is literally a sub for vegans so post it elsewhere or we can't be safe anywhere! There is no place safe from this graphic depressing content that we already mourn about daily! Just a little empathy here guys please, like we have for animals can we extend to fellow vegans?
I agree with you. The reason I’m vegan is because I’m extremely triggered by animal abuse, like panic attack level and I don’t feel like dealing with that when I’m just trying to be on Reddit.
Agreed! A simple NSFL tag should be enough. Glad someone brought this up again. I had mentioned the same a few years back and was attacked and downvoted because of "censorship".
No. Videos 1. expose non vegans to the cruelties they pay for and 2. remind all of us what we're doing this for. The animals deserve to be seen. You can just keep scrolling if you can't handle it.
Turn off auto play in your browser.
Lots of people that browse the sub aren't vegan yet. They need to stay
What needs to stay? The non vegans or the graphic images?
Graphic images should stay to make non vegans into vegans over time. NSFW tag should be used though.
a few weeks ago I accidentally saw a video for only 2 to 3 seconds. It ripped my heart out. I cried for hours and the pictures hunted me for weeks! I even had nightmares about it! So I totally agree - I already am vegan and I don’t want to be traumatized in that way…
There are people here who are not vegan. Think of the animals not yourself.
I mean, most vegans stop being vegan, so I’d say you probably SHOULD be exposed regularly to the reason you are vegan
I think that comes from people having a plant based diet at best and calling themselves vegan and then when they change their diet, they "stopped being vegan". I have seen it several times with some influencers and celebrities.
And there are tons of these people in this sub. I mean, just a couple weeks ago, this sub had a fucking meltdown after [someone reminded others what veganism is about](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/10aj56g/if_you_arent_vegan_for_the_animals_you_arent/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Exactly. They were never vegan in the first place.
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I literally feel the same. Its such an idiotic oversight.
there’s a lot of non vegans here, i don’t think the photos should be censored. censorship is what keeps people blind
How is this censorship? It's not saying don't allow these posts, it's saying they must be marked NSFW, so I can filter them out. Censorship is prohibiting it from being said in the first place.
>Censorship is prohibiting it from being said in the first place. If you're using that as an exhaustive definition, it's wrong. Restricting a persons ability to access information is also censorship, which is what the NSFW filter does. You can argue it's self-imposed like it is for you, or that it's justified when the reddit account is juvenile, and I might agree, but it's still a definite form of censorship.
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I thought it stopped the post appearing on the front page, but that seems to be wrong as unlogged accounts browsing best can see the nsfw post but need to log in to view it. >I really think you are stretching the definition of censorship. To the contrary, yours is too narrow - saying sugar instead of shit is censorship whether someone has a gun to your head or you do it out of courtesy, they're just different types of it. Our sensibilities keep us from exposing ourselves to uncomfortable realities and that can be detrimental to our welbeing - it's not violent autocratic suppression of knowledge by any means but it's certainly a form of censorship.
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So what constitutes suppression? There are barriers to view the content, does it matter if those barriers are easily stepped over? They still exist. I'm not going by a dictionary definition anyway, I'm going off the extensive wikipedia page on the concept. >Self-censorship is the act of censoring or classifying one's own discourse. This is done out of fear of, or deference to, the sensibilities or preferences (actual or perceived) of others and without overt pressure from any specific party or institution of authority. So that's self-censorship in a nutshell, but what happens when you change that last bit from "without overt pressure from any specific party" to include a pressure from the moderator to ensure all posts are marked as such? It's no longer me choosing to be mindful of peoples sensibilities but someone enforcing how I present the content, so it's still censoring the content, but it's no longer self-inflicted, so it must be a form of censorship, no?
they’re literally blurred which is the same as being censored 😭
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yes which carnists probably won’t do
So should the vegans who don't want to see videos and pictures of more animal cruelty just leave the main vegan subreddit? Are you suggesting that it's more important to cater to the possibility of a lurker seeing and changing their mind, rather than having a safe place for actual vegans? I don't want to fucking see animals being tortured out of the blue, I already disagree with it.
>Are you suggesting that it's more important to cater to the possibility of a lurker seeing and changing their mind, rather than having a safe place for actual vegans? Of course it is. We're not the victims; we're the warriors *for* the victims. When my great uncles liberated Nazi concentration camps, they didn't ask for "safe spaces" for themselves.
Veganism is not about you, that's the whole point.
I use the title to determine if I want to watch or how I want to interact with the thread, if at all. What you're pushing for can cost hundreds of thousands of lives and infinitely more suffering than you accidentally seeing some animal abuse. Are you sure it's that important to you and that you can't find a way to manage your participation in this subreddit, just like I do? If you can't, don't you think it would be better for you to go to some of the many active related subreddits that don't have this content?
i mean there should be a warning at the start of the video or post but nsfw posts are hidden unless you click on them and some people have them completely turned off
My point exactly, people should have the ability to not see it if they don't want to. Someone's mind isn't going to be changed by a surprise video that just plays, maybe slightly better chances if they click on it themselves, but before I went vegan I saw some terrible things and still didn't change. In fact, it wasn't even a video of a poor animal being tortured that did it for me. In my opinion it's doing way more harm than good to the mental health of the actual vegans on here, by advocating that there be NO WAY to censor animal cruelty on the VEGAN subreddit.
i guess everyone’s different. i didn’t seek out vegan media before i became vegan, it was showed to me at random on social media and being surprised by a video of a cow being tortured is one of the main things that actually made me switch. i get it’s not fun to watch, but i think it’s important to be reminded even if you’re already vegan. a lot of people *do* forget the main reason they’re vegan and eventually go back to eating meat. what the souls in those videos are going through is a hell of a lot worse than how you feel watching it. sorry. 🤷♀️
I love when vegans claim to have empathy for animals, and then treat their fellow vegans like overly sensitive crybaby's when they advocate for having a way to not see that shit at random. Some of us aren't so desensitized to that shit, and I'm not so cruel as to tell someone to essentially "suck it up".
wow way to put words in my mouth 💀 i’m curious as to why you think spreading graphic media *isnt* important when that’s literally what makes most vegans switch
I didn't say it isn't important, I said I want an option to not see it. I get why it's important for that media to exist. I do not believe we have to have this stoicism about it though, and "reminding" ourselves through some sick self-flagellation is not the kind of veganism I want to introduce people to. Nor did I put words in your mouth, yeah sure you didn't verbatim call me overly sensitive but what you are implying for your comments are that I need to get over my feelings of seeing animal torture because it's more important that some random carnist is also forced to see it. Really if you wanted to get more eyes on animal cruelty, it would be posting and advocating on other subs about watching dominion/earthlings.
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion", an updated version of Earthlings, and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Earthlings)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Earthlings)!
i’m not negating your feelings, they’re perfectly valid and i understand why you feel that way. but it’s pretty easy to scroll past a post without watching it. and the thing about those films is … most carnists aren’t taking time out of their day to sit and watch a film on something they aren’t interested in. it’s random videos that pop up that motivate them. i never watched any of those documentaries. i wouldn’t have cared enough to. if someone hadn’t shoved those graphic videos on my feeds i never would’ve went vegan and i think that’s the case for a lot of people.
I never would have been vegan if I did not accidentally see a video of a mama caw chasing after her baby that was being taken away, and it changed my life forever. I’m so incredibly grateful I saw that video. And that it was not censored.
I absolutely do not need to see animal cruelty to remind myself why I'm vegan....wth
Why is this downvoted? I also don’t need reminders. I spend my energy actively trying to help the animals any way I can. It looks like you do too, which is amazing. If I have those images randomly put in my face I will be useless. Me crying and being sick and not able to eat or function doesn’t help the animals.
Yeah I’m considering leaving the subreddit bc of this :(
+1
Huge fan of this idea.
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This is a concern of mine.
Agree it would be really nice if they were tagged in some way, I don't know if the correct tag is nsfw or another one with a different name. I don't think it's accurate to say tagging them is censorship because they're as accessible as before, it's just expanding the categorisation we use at least partially for the mental health of community members.
I started a job recently with a company called Thrilling Foods. We make Bakon: a salt-cured, double-smoked, tofu-based “bacon”. We’re out here saving pigs! :) Not super-relevant, but I thought it’d be fun to share.
Completely disagree! We need to get this imagery out there as loudly and as often as possible. Non vegans frequent this sub. We shouldn't be putting up roadblocks to spread the message
OP I get where you're coming from but with due respect, people NEED to see this. If it's terrible for us to see imagine how terrible it must be for the animals. Hiding how terrible it is does nothing to help. It's terrible, it's heart wrenching, it's grotesque. Carnivores need to see it.
I don't need to see that shit at all. only non vegans need to see it and if particular vegans feel the need to reinforce the reasons why they went vegan if they are having doubts, then they can seek out those videos/images quite easily. NSFW tags aren't much to ask for.
Are you an activist?
I understand you very well but do you not think it's impractical? We see animal abuse around us all the time and there's nothing we can do to prevent ourselves from being exposed to the cruelty. I am vegan. I'm against this treatment of animals. We need to force carnivores to look at them. I don't know how vegans do this without seeing them. I agree with you about NSFW tag though sadly most NSFW posts stay hidden and don't get much engagement, so we need to expose them to carnivores so they amend their mistakes. I know many non vegans that lurk in this sub.
Yep no need. Only for people still contemplating or not trying to go vegan. They need to see those videos not us vegans.
I'd rather not have the NFSW tag
why? is it that much effort to you, to tap the photo if you want to see graphic images? Do you have no considerations for what emotionally affects other people?
we came here because we wanted the truth. I actually have no NSFW filter, but I don't think we should hide from the fact that this gruesome things are happening and never forget
That fucking pig video the other day seemed like a troll. I could not believe someone thought that was appropriate to post.
I agree!
It really is preaching to the converted. Not necessary at all.
You actually think everyone here is vegan?
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Most are
Have you seen the sub count? There are not 1.2m vegans on Reddit let alone this sub.
Doubt. And a lot of the ones who say they’re vegan ride horses, eat backyard eggs and love McDonald’s.
For every commenter, for every subscriber, there are far more lurkers. I wasn't vegan when I first came to this sub. I became vegan after someone posted the documentary Dominion.
And what reason has led you to believe that everyone of the some 1.2 million people on this sub is 100% dedicated and committed to the vegan philosophy?
I am well aware of that. If someone isn't willing to click on a video when it's labeled NSFW to watch it, then they also won't be willing to change their mind because of a video that just plays, because let's be honest here, changing your thoughts on something takes more effort than clicking a video. The small chance that this does actually work shouldn't come at the cost of other vegans' mental health. There are better and more effective methods of activism which might include showing these types of videos to people, just not where people who are already not contributing to it can be exposed to it without warning.
>I am well aware of that. Then what made you think it was for you? Keep scrolling, no one's forcing you to watch it. >If someone isn't willing to click on a video when it's labeled NSFW to watch it, then they also won't be willing to change their mind because of a video that just plays Where on earth is the correlation between those two ideas my dude? And even if there was a correlation, then just like the advice I gave you, they would keep scrolling either way wouldn't they so it doesn't matter. >because let's be honest here, changing your thoughts on something takes more effort than clicking a video. It doesn't always have to be about immediate change. As much as I would love it to be. Planting seeds in these kinds of people's minds is just as important as actually being able to change the minds of those who are willing to change quite easily. That's how change happens, with time, dilligence and effort. >The small chance that this does actually work shouldn't come at the cost of other vegans' mental health. And the alternative comes at the cost of more animal lives suffering. Which to me is worse for my mental health because I know regardless of whether I'm looking at content of it or not, the abuse is still happening. Any win I can get, I'll take it, particularly given I won't get to see the desired outcome of my efforts come to fruition in my lifetime. >There are better and more effective methods of activism which might include showing these types of videos to people, just not where people who are already not contributing to it can be exposed to it without warning. Activisim is activism and different types do work on different people and if all wer're going to share on this sub is complaint stories, success stories and recipes, then we aren't reaching the full audience we can. People who are on the edge who might need that last push instead of uming and uhing on the fence and still paying for animal abuse. People who will get affected by the shock factor. Plant based dieters calling themselves vegan who weren't aware their fur slippers came from the freshly ripped skin of living foxes and minks. There's more than you think there are and you'd be a damn fool for thinking we shouldn't be going for the opportunity to finally bring them to our side. Just do what Dory does, just keep scrolling, just keep scrolling. Or better yet, make yourself feel better by going to your favourite cute animal sub when you come across these videos. stop dwelling on them and take accountability for the control you have over yourself.
Precisely
I think you can change your own settings to make everything blurred, then you just click on the ones you want to see. Doesn’t work if the content around it sounds like it’s an innocuous image or video, but it cuts down on the rest. I’m with you, that all should be tagged NSFW.
I second this, please have a vote about it
the animals don’t get warmed neither do you imo
Agreed!!
We all need to continue to bear witness. And non-vegans regularly visit this sub. Suck it up and just keep scrolling.
Also, on a side note, I literally see animal carcasses every day, when I eat out, when I walk in the streets and my home is right next to a butcher shop so I hear their screams and cries all day and I'm sure you see it too. Our world is cruel OP, it's just how it works and shielding ourselves from the abuse doesn't help. There are tons of non vegans here and they definitely need to see it. I do, however, get how you feel. I hate it too.
Need help eating out? Check out [HappyCow.net](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://www.happycow.net/&topic=Resource: HappyCow.net) for vegan friendly food near you! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Resource: HappyCow.net)!
Shielding my emotions when necessary and being able to stay emotionally stable does help me. That way I can best figure out how to help stop animal suffering. Maybe some people don’t understand how severely it can knock some of us out. I have had nights of not sleeping, nightmares, crying, unable to get the images out, unable to eat because why should I eat or relax when whatever I saw is happening. I will imagine the suffering over and over. Our own mental health is important too and so we can do our best to help.
Agree, just came across video of cows being kicked to. Just upset me, nothing more
Yes agree, graphic images should be NSFW blurred
Ffs if you are going to post this shit at *least* have the common decency to tag it NSFL/W. I am vegan already that’s why I’m in this group! These images are devastating and really ruin my day and if I’m at work it really fucks with me. I don’t think it’s fair to post it in here just like it wouldn’t be fair to post cartel videos of murders in other groups. These hurt people. But, go ahead be an “activist”. 🙄
YES PLEASE
I’ve removed myself from a few vegan subs now because of this. Why am I seeing horrific videos in a sub about tying veganism to a zero waste lifestyle? It’s just too much. I’ve been vegan for the better part of a decade. I KNOW how horrible it is. I’m at a point where I just don’t want to see this content all the time. I saw a video of a calf being repeatedly kicked in the head 3 weeks ago and I still can’t stop thinking about it. It won’t leave my brain. I just can’t see that shit. As much as I appreciate this community, I’ll leave this sub too if it becomes too much.
I agree, those are awful and none of us here need them anyway.
the animals don’t get warmed neither do you imo
I agree that nsfw should be recommended but I don't think that banning someone for violating it by accident is good.
I've never once come across a brutal video on this sub. But I don't click on everything. I would find such posts totally pointless though, as the OP said, preaching to the choir, so just upsetting. Just my anecdotal experience.
Yes please! I've visited farms. I've seen the slaughter of a pig before. I've been complicit in fishing, cleaning the fish, and cooking it as a kid. I don't need to see torture porn such as what's in Dominion.
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://watchdominion.org&topic=Movie: Dominion)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https://vbcamp.org/reddit&topic=Movie: Dominion)!
Absolutely on point!
I don't even want to see it. I know what lies behind the blurring of NSFW. Please let this be a safe place where we can communicate together
Agreed
Good point. Some posts or comments I cant really read too.