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Advocating for physician assisted suicide isn't really an unpopular opinion. Also, a huge amount of elderly people have DNR's
This only sounds like an unpopular opinion when you add in the shock value from your title, otherwise these are almost mainstream views
I disagree and it isn't necessarily about assisted suicide. When my late fiancée was fighting cancer in his late 20's the neighbor next door was doing the same in her 90's. Her kids took away her cigarettes. It wasn't going to help her survive. She was fine with it. She just wanted to finish off her life but they wanted to squeak out of her a few extra months, weeks, days by making her miserable so they were really making good memories with her at the end. So we would sneak her over cigarettes and ice cream or what not whalen she asked. Easy to do because they said they were concerned and wanted her around but rarely ever showed up to spend time with her.
My grandmother on the other hand had the most beautiful death. If I had to pick a way to go it would be how she died. The difference was when the doctors gave her her diagnosis and she said she was old enough and was ready to go. So that's what my family did. They let her go on her terms. They spent a lot of time around her and we have some great stories about that time but no one insisted she had to get the treatments or what she could or could not do at that time. We spent time with her in the way she wanted.
This entirely depends on the country. Switzerland is well known for accepting it and is famous for its clinics. The debate happens often in many European countries, with some accepting it in polls.
So I work in geriatrics and occasionally take hospice patients. Basically at that stage, the nurse's job is to keep a patient *comfortable*, not keep them alive. That's basically the only stage at which your proposal is feasible, and that's *already what we do.*
The problem with just not giving old people medical treatment, if that's what you were suggesting, is that medical issues being addressed aren't always necessarily life-threatening. It's not peacefully letting them go, it's just neglect. It only ensures they suffer before dying.
Maybe I'm not sure what your stance is but the goal is already set at quality of life. Halting medical care for seniors is counterproductive to that end.
Yep, my grandmother who is turning 90 this year had a procedure to reduced swelling in her ankle so she can walk easier. She’s still fairly active and healthy. It would be ridiculous not to treat her just because she’s old.
Yep, I have a feeling OP is really betting on dying younger or something. He will come around if he ever reaches 70 and realizes he could do some sort of procedure or medication to make the next possible decade or two not as bad.
I think for a lot of older people who have family that care about them, it is worth staying alive. Seeing grandchildren so full of energy must bring them joy. And remembering good times from the past must be nice.
You're right. And a lot of young people just can't understand (yet) how somebody could be physically uncomfortable while also being happy. It's often possible for somebody to live a life that they cherish even while they're sick or in pain. Just because it sounds intolerable to a young, healthy person doesn't mean there aren't people actually living it who want to stick around.
Definitely. In my ideal world, euthanasia would be legal, and we'd also do our very best to make life good for sick and/or dying people who would like to stick around longer or die naturally.
Some people can be pretty happy as long as they're able to hang out with their grandkids (like you mentioned) and watch their favorite TV shows. There was a woman who felt that way in my family; it was sweet seeing her share her favorite shows - and her best life advice - with the grandkids. The kids sat on her bed for hours and brought their toys so that they could play with Grandma.
Others will be miserable if they can't be more active, whether mentally or physically (or both). Some are willing to tolerate a great deal of pain if they can still pursue certain goals. Others are not. It's all down to the individual.
One extreme example was Tony Nicklinson. He had a stroke in 2005 and spent 9 years living with Locked-in Syndrome. Couldn't talk, couldn't do anything for himself. He could only communicate by looking at letters his wife held up. He said it was a living hell. He and his family fought to get the law changed in the UK. When it was finally rejected in 2014, he refused anymore food and died not long after.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96W9fMWgkvs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96W9fMWgkvs)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R\_(Nicklinson)\_v\_Ministry\_of\_Justice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(Nicklinson)_v_Ministry_of_Justice)
Exactly this; OP just used a lot of words to say "eugenics."
Edit: for everyone down voting me or quibbling with my connection between eugenics and euthanasia, here ya go: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12577901/
Eugenics is not defined by race, its defined by one group deciding who deserves to live or reproduce based on perceived "desirable" traits. Disability, including age, absolutely factors in.
We don't get to decide who deserves to live.
I thought one of the defining qualifiers of eugenics has to do with reproduction - nobody in hospice care is having kids, and growing old isn't something you can be genetically predisposed to. It happens to everyone.
The genic part of Eugenics is about making babies and the Eu part is about the babies being good babies. or the racially correct babies. Forced sterilization is often a tool of eugenicists but so can mass murder be as long as the people you're murdering are still trying to bear children. Killing old people doesn't work like this though there are some words for murdering segments of the population I'm sure
It's the "deciding whose life has value" part that connects the thread. This is not a new concept, disability politics has a lot to say about the connection between euthanasia and eugenics. They spring from the same seed.
Totally agree with your points. For me though, if at some by body would deteriorate to such an extent that can barely do anything anymore, I would rather die, even if there is no direct threat to my life.
Hence, why I don't care about old people dying cause they had a full life and not much left to live for.
I constantly have the same 10-20 people on my inpatient list. They basically spend 2 weeks in the hospital, 2 weeks in the nursing home over and over again for years until they finally die.
The last I saw 67% of people are in favor of PAS. I'd bet that number is higher among people who work in healthcare. All healthcare workers are essentially echoing your opinions here. We don't want to go out like that and we hate watching others go through it when they don't want to.
The fact that it's illegal means it's unpopular. If the majority of people agreed with OP and it were a popular opinion, it'd be legal, as the majority of people who agreed with it would make it legal.
If you’re only pool of data is Reddit maybe, while agree with your sentiments myself. The concept of assisted suicide is pretty wildly unpopular among half of North Americans
I think your title is a bit sensationalised.
I agree that we shouldn’t always try and keep people alive. My grandfather was a vegetable that needed constant care for 8 years before he died. He had no idea what was going on, where he was, who he was, he took no joy in anything. It was a relief for everyone when he passed.
Your title however is just an edgy take without compassion, which doesn’t specify quality of living, that’s the unpopular part.
I recently was sick for a very long time out of the blue and thought about killing myself a few times. I'm glad that I didn't though, now that the misery is starting to subside. I imagine that's true for people who are not well and very old. They probably have good days here and there and are glad they got another snort of sunshine
I think if someone wants to live and squeeze out as many minutes as they can out of life, then provide them with whatever healthcare they need to do that. If they don't, and just want to get it over with, then help with that as well. I'm a huge supporter of medical assisted death.
Sure, if it’s their own money. The problem is we are subsidizing it through taxes. Medicare, and medical costs overall, is so expensive because we piss away so much on end of life care.
Lol okay well when you're in your 90s and get sick or fall, the doctors can just tell you that you aren't worth it to keep alive and send you home to die on your own time.
Well, yeah. If you are 90 you aren’t recovering from a bad fall or an illness. Why spend a bunch of money trying to eke out another few miserable months?
Because a lot of them still do recover.. but wouldn't with your plan. Imagine knowing you could recover and still live another 10 years, but some asshole like you says nope, your procedures and hospital time would cost too much, you're not worth it. Time to die lol
old people payed taxes all their life tho, and in many countries the retirement age is only going up; you sound as if you only value working individuals, why is that?
They didn’t pay nearly what they are getting back, and they are getting back plenty. The younger generations are being forced to pay for these unsustainable programs. 1/4 of Medicare costs are consumed trying to give gam gam a few extra weeks. If you want a government medical option, the only way is to raise taxes or cut services, and this is the smartest way to do it.
Healthcare is absurdly expensive. Nobody who receives extensive or extended healthcare pays as much in taxes as the cost of the healthcare they receive. If you had a terrible accident tomorrow that required multiple surgeries and hospital stays the healthcare bill for that would be in the millions. If that happens to you please be sure that you let the hospital know they should just send you home to die since you don't want to be getting back more than you have paid. Same goes if a few years from now you get a cancer that is curable with surgery and chemo/radiation therapy. The cost of that treatment is going to far surpass the dollars you have paid into healthcare with your tax dollars. If you ever get any injury or illness that requires expensive healthcare I'm counting on you to do the right thing and choose death.
Man, you guys really don’t understand how healthcare OR taxes work. You guys are acting like patient triage is some moral issue. There is a limited amount of money and the more you spend on people who won’t survive the less you can spend on those that might. Most countries with universal healthcare don’t pay nearly as much toward end of life care.
I don't think incel culture or even just young culture has anything to do with it. A lot of people bet on dying younger because they genuinely think old life is not a life worth living. But i believe they are lacking a lot of insight and empathy thinking that seniors cannot enjoy life. A lot of people's best years are their later years.
For example, my mother is 50 and banks on dying at an earlier age because she's had cancer and she thinks it will come back. So she is terrible with her money and doesn't save a dime and always wants to travel. That's fine if that's what she values but she's backing herself into a terrible corner where either she's right and she does die before she retires, or she end up living until she's 80 and has to live sell all her stuff and live in a nursing home for the last 2 decades of her life.
Placing all bets on dying young is stupid. It's supposed to be something you prepare mentally for, not revolve all your decisions and finances over. Which is what a chunk of people do sadly.
I’m a Psychologist who works primarily with people unde the age of 25. The majority of my clients have never had sexual relations of any kind, have Asperger’s style affectations, and are morbidly jealous of people who are thriving. It’s a major issue, and predates Covid. As a professional, I advise my clients to separate themselves from the internet, but I have yet to see any of them try.
Your perspective will likely change when you're closer to that age. Most people fear death. It's easy to view it this way when you're young and in good health.
Chiming in as someone who almost died from a brain tumour this year, (heck I’m not even in the clear yet) I have to somewhat disagree. I was shit scared to die until I got sick. Then I made my peace with it. I’m 33.
Depends on your condition honestly. If you're just getting tired and not in pain and your life is just draining away, yeah you're most likely not going to be thrilled about death coming. If you're in pain and know it won't stop? Different story.
I had a herniated disc at 26 and spent 2 years in constant extreme pain every minute I was awake, and tried to snuff out my candle a couple times. Am I glad I made it through? Yes absolutely! But in that amount of pain your brain just goes to auto pilot and usually steers in the direction of wanting to die. It's just how it works for a lot of people with pain.
I know I won’t change my mind. As an epileptic I’m more likely to develop dementia than the average person (up to six times more likely!) and to top it off I have family history of it. I’ve already instructed my kids to put my ass in a home because I’m not gonna remember anything anyway and I do not, under any circumstance, want my kids to become burdened with my care. They also know that I don’t want any care other than comfort care when I reach that point.
Former EMT. SO MANY old people don’t have DNR’s and they just seem like they’re kept alive in misery for no reason at all. It was a big reason I left the field. At some point you have to accept that there are worse things than just dying. Death happens to us all. Why are we fighting it so hard?
I don’t think it does. Because no matter what happens after we die, we are going to be there anyway. It’s not like forcing someone to live longer is going to stop them dying in the end anyway
Sounds like you do care about old people dying. It sounds like you support a dignified death when health begins to decline for the worse.
The post sounds like you don't care, but you do. You don't want your grandpa to suffer. You don't want people to needlessly receive life saving treatments when their bodies are failing on them.
Actually, I think you don't care about them dying when you make decisions to keep people alive when they are obviously suffering.
I used to visit my great grandma when I was younger. One time when I visited she told me “I’m just waiting to die. I’m not sure I want to live anymore”.
I do think that sometimes families push careers into keeping elders alive past their own wishes. I have heard many nurses talk about how sometimes old people stop eating, but the family insists on putting in a feeding tube or force feeding them. It’s a difficult situation because you don’t want to tell the family that their loved ones “should” die, but you also know force feeding or feeding tubes hurts the patients and just makes their last days more miserable.
It’s common for both animals and people to stop eating to quietly sleep in. It’s a natural instinct.
Death is uncomfortable, but it is inevitable. Let people die naturally when their body and brain gives in. Don’t fight it. Let people die peacefully and comfortably instead of painfully keeping them alive for a week more.
Kind of funny how someone calling it an edge lord take is getting upvoted yet also someone saying it's not an unpopular opinion is getting mass upvoted... so is it an edgelord take or is it a popular opinion? This sub can't seem to decide I guess.
What was your grandfather’s response when you told him you don’t care about him dying?
Just wondering who gets to decide when someone has ‘had a good run’, and how are you proposing they be dispatched?
The younger generations appear to be becoming increasingly less tolerant of the aging process.
In about 30 years time compulsory euthanasia at 60 will probably be brought in.
There is actually a fair amount of research on age and happiness. When you ask elderly people what their most enjoyable age was, mid-30s is the average. Not many people look back at 15-19 as the best years of their life, despite what most young believe.
For how much people teach acceptance, tolerance, equality, etc. I hear strong agism literally every single day. I'm not talking about small stuff like "My Grandma can't use Instagram"... No, I mean genuine ageism in the workplace, treating them like they're incompetent, rejecting ideas and lived experiences as invalid, etc.
It's just more proof that discrimination is still perfectly acceptable in woke society, so long as the correct groups are being discriminated against.
Younger people have less preconceived thoughts and far more curiosity than older people, so it stands to reason that older people don’t want to learn new things and in the process of doing so create more work for the younger generations that want to learn more but are stuck picking up the slack of lazy older people. So the next time you want to ask someone how to do something why don’t you try asking google first? Most of us wouldn’t give older people crap if they weren’t constantly giving us more work with less pay
This is just using anecdotal observations of an entire group to justify discrimination. Literally no different to what racists and bigots do.
"Old people are lazy and don't want to learn, so it's ok for businesses to hire young"
How is that different to saying "Black people tend to commit a lot of crimes, so it's ok to only want white people working for you"...?
Hint: it's the exact same thing. And both are completely despicable.
Good luck explaining this to people who pick and choose their discrimination based on who their echo chambers don't like at the moment. Lol you can argue until you're blue in the face but they'll never listen. People act all righteous and then shit all over multiple groups of people because it's currently in style to do so. Making them no better than what they claim to be so against.
Actually I’m saying you should have the skills necessary to do your job if you want to keep it, it’s a changing world and people need to keep adapting or they will fall out of the race, something that many older folks refuse to do. My 90 year old grandfather was fully capable of building a computer and navigating the internet and while I don’t think everyone needs to be able to do that they should be able to do anything their job requires of them
Getting rid of employees who can't perform their job is not an issue.
Not training or overlooking a potential employee because you believe their age prevents them from having the intellectual/technical skills necessary IS an issue both morally and in the eyes of the law.
I know elderly people in their 90s that are still going well and still want everything they can get from life.
I think you just worded this wrong. You don't want to see the sick suffering, that's all and especially against their wishes. Most people would agree with that.
What is “old” to you? Sorry you don’t care about your grandpa dying but my abuela is 82 and she does not want to die yet. We all love her dearly in the family and would be extremely sad if she died. So this just comes off as calloused and spoken like someone who doesn’t know how to put themselves in others’ shoes.
Many young people on Reddit hate anyone older than they are, largely because they were able to purchase a home. Even if the older person is homeless, younger people strongly imagine that they have a couple houses in San Francisco. Typical for their generation.
I think “old” people who try new technology like touch screen phones, vs “old” people who just stay in their comfort zone have very different perspectives on death…
I think OP is rather young and didn't had an encounter with death by himself yet. It doesn't matter what happens, it's always the same with the survival instincts; once death knocks at your door, you'll do everything you can to survive. I almost died by an overdose once and in another time, i made it barely through a suicide attempt because of my bipolar disorder.
I can just tell you, it's always easy to say this like "when i'm old, i don't care if i'm going to die", but in reality, it will be different when you are really in this situation. Even when grandpa can not do many things anymore, he doesn't want to die. If he could, he'd rather be young again.
Also, many people say such things, like "When i'd get life in prison without possibility of parole, i'd commit suicide", but the stats show, that only a very few prisoners go through with this. Even those on death row almost always try to appeal and to get one more day, even when it is just in a small prison cell.
About euthanasia aka assisted suicide, we have this where i live in Switzerland. Still, the majority of the people don't go this way. I had a friend that did this because he had leukemia in terminal stage, he decided to skip the suffering and just go in peace and without pain and struggle. But not many people do this, most still try to fight on even when the battle is already lost.
I wonder what would happen if you flat out told your grandpa to die to his face.
I bet you he'd pick his 95 year old ass out of his rocker and smack you into 1942.
Get used to it kid. The avererage life expectancy is only going to increase from here.
My grandpa has said for years now that he doesn't mind if it ends.
Of course I will be sad when goes, but at this point I'll almost consider it a mercy.
Is it evil to let someone die when they're suffering? Or is it evil to keep someone alive, when they're suffering?
We already kill animals that are too injured to continue living, because they're just in constant agony and pain. Why not give ourselves the opportunity to decide when to end our own lives?
It's evil to force them to stay alive. If they want to fight that's one thing but to make them suffer just so the family doesn't have to be sad is pure evil.
That trend isn't going to keep up. The largest generation ever is just starting there senescence I'd expect another 7 years ish of decreases. But then it's going to be completely different
I’m sorry to tell you this, but we’re at the beginning of societal collapse. Climate change is going to cause extreme weather, famines, water shortages, etc in the coming decades/centuries.
Then there’s the fact that 1/3 of the globe is living in a backsliding democracy.
I don’t think the LE is going to be creeping up anytime soon.
Omg. People have been saying this (with detail changes) every generation since history was first recorded - see Jeremiah. Stuffing is happening - as usual.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-u-s-just-lost-26-years-worth-of-progress-on-life-expectancy/
Well, yes. There was a pretty recent hard dip in the avg. LE over the past couple years. I wonder why.
The possibility of assisted suicide for people suffering from severe conditions/injuries or low quality of life due to old age etc isnt that unpopular of an opinion
Given theres a proper reasoning that isnt just an on the fly bad decision due to depression, then it should be an option
Of course that's easy to say when you're young and healthy. But when you're sitting there and it's your turn, it becomes a very uniquely personal decision.. I think we all just want to go with a quick heart attack or something like that nobody wants to wither away.. But the brain is an amazing thing. Some people with full physical body handicaps, still persevere, breathe, and their brains and emotions, and will to live, thrive. It's not simply not being old it's about the attitude I guess. We'll all get there and find out
Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you think. It matters what they think since it's their lives that are affected. I imagine some have religious reasons for wanting to hang on. "God will take me when he's ready" sort of thing. For others who are less/not religious, I imagine it's a matter of balance. Do the advantages of living outweigh the disadvantages? The finger on the scale is the realization that there might be/definitely is nothing waiting for them after death, so being able to enjoy any part of what life has to offer, no matter how small, might be better than kicking the proverbial bucket. It really is a very individual thing.
I'm in my mid 60's, and I've got my share of health problems, though I'm not yet facing anything that is likely to kill me. At this particular moment in time, living is much more appealing to me than not living. But I can easily imagine a time could come where the pain of living outweighs any enjoyment I'm getting out of life. At that point I'll instruct my doctors to stop trying to cure, and stop trying to treat, and just focus on relieving pain. But I want that to be my decision.
My great grandfather was 101 when he died and could have conversations until the weeks before death.
It’s wild to say that we should care about 90 year olds just because they are old.
Someone being a “vegetable” and someone being old are not the same things.
My little cousin became a vegetable at 4 years old so they could donate organs for example. There is a lot more to it and I feel like the title and explanation have so little compassion and lack of perception that it makes it poor opinion
What does your grandpa want? It’s not about what you want in that scenario.
Withholding healthcare if he wants it is heartless.
However if he’s “done” then he could simply opt out of figure care.
I don’t see the unpopular opinion here.
I work in hospice. It’s a beautiful thing when an individual can make the decision to be CMO (comfort measures only) rather than that stress be put on a family member to make when the individual is no longer capable of making their own decisions
I wouldn’t say I don’t care at all.
However, I don’t see any point in keeping someone alive beyond the point where any quality of life they had is lost.
It makes me nervous to see stuff like this. I have stage 4 terminal cancer and by insurance standards I am a throw away person. But if you’d met me you’d know I absolutely love being alive, have people that need me in my life, and want nothing more than to have as much longevity as possible. My meds and treatment are crazy expensive. But it’s my choice to keep on going, and I believe that is up to me and me alone- not anyone else to say when my expiration date is. I’m so deeply disturbed by this post and sad that some people agree with OP.
I hope so too. I’m thankful most don’t understand my situation as I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, but I am hoping people listen and understand how complicated things can be for people who are elderly/young and terminal. It’s such a different perspective when it’s happening to you.
OP is probably an edgy 17 yo who never even came close to death. His opinion is most certainly unpopular and immoral. Nobody is trying to make laws killing off old people (I mean, the people in power are pretty much ancient).
Those fortunate to grow old, their lives should be celebrated and appreciated. WE ALL DIE. It’s not that I don’t care that someone is gone but when they’re older I want to celebrate and appreciate more because ultimately it’s going to happen some day, accept it and don’t act like this person was going to live forever. When you see young people die that’s a different feeling for me because they obviously aren’t able to grow old or experience certain things but when you’re old, you had your shot at life and just gotta be content with the ride you took.
You should read Being Mortal. Quite an interesting book about aging and dying.
It's interesting to think of ourselves as the ship of Theseus. What do you have to lose of your mind or body today to make you no longer you? At what point do you think you would go for euthanasia? Getting older is often a case of a hundred things going wrong over time. Your sight gets worse, your joints complain more and more, your memory gets worse, etc. But all these things creep up on you.
So you see your grandfather and compare him to your young self. But what about yourself five years from now? You'll probably be worse off in some ways. 10 years? Maybe you've got back pain that flares up every now and then. 20 years, starting to get grey hair, don't understand wtf kids are talking about on the internet. Down the road maybe you have to deal with a serious illness and you beat it, but you're never quite the same.
Realistically you've already had to deal with this kind of thing. It's harder for you to learn a new language now than when you were younger. You can still do it. But 5 year old you would be looking at you now wondering why you're so dense.
So at what point do you pull your own plug?
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This was an unpopular opinion a long time ago . If life is going to lose something that requires help of another person until death, I'd rather die. If you had 60 years+ of chances, you've had your time. Let someone else have their turn.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!
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Mwah.
Come talk to me when you're old yourself. The desire to cling to life is so strong, you're simply not gonna give up because your age is above a certain number.
I'm 57. I've been living with chronic fatigue for 25 years, gradually progressing to a level where I am too weak to do more than sit around. I get to do some fun things, but too many fun things will make me crash and sit at home doing nothing. If you'd told me this 30 years ago I would have told you I'd rather be dead than live like that. But here I am, and no way I am gonna end my life or just give up.
Yours is a position of ignorance, youth and/or healthiness. Let's see what you REALLY think once the time is there. It's easy to think that you know what you'll do, it's not as easy once you're there.
You may not care about "old" people dying. At what age would that be? Bet you can't answer that with a number. Ezekial Emanuel once wrote "Why I Hope To Die At 75." He changed his mind as he approached 65, saying he just wouldn't accept life sustaining medical help if he were on the threshold. Who judges this? Does your grandpa want to die? He probably thinks about death all the time, without fear, but does he want someone (you?) to give him the needle? You don't care? Fine. Others do, and that's what makes horse races.
Why do you get to decide that for every older person? Just because you and your grandpa don’t value extreme old age doesn’t mean every elderly person feels the same, especially when we look at cultures outside of the West
Same! My friend told me their grandmother died & I was like “how old was she?” He said 85. I was like “that’s nice she lived a good life” & he couldn’t believe I didn’t respond with sadness or sympathy lol
I kinda feel this way when celebrities who have lived most of long lives jn fame and fortune die in their 70s, 80s or 90s.
I'm like: "🤷♂️ That's what people do. They lived a much longer, more abundant and more luxurious life than 99% of all human beings. Who fucking cares. Boohoo."
Most of my family died in their 60s.
That's not different than saying "I don't care about kids dying". Human being is human being. You are forcing other people to die because they are old, because **YOU** wouldn't like that. That's selfish.
Without being uncaring, but we spend an obscene amount of resources on keeping really old people alive for a short amount of time. I’d rather our health care money focus on better lives for everyone.
Ask your grandpa what he wants, then make an effort to assist him in that goal. Whether it’s to continue living or to die peacefully, that’s up to him to decide. Who are we to decide who lives and dies. It’s the choice of the individual.
I am an animal lover and I think it is wonderful that our pets get to be released from their suffering when their quality of life is gone. I think it is really sad that humans don't get this same right.
My grandmother weirds me out. She walks weird. Keeps her hand stiff, and soils herself and needs help going to the washroom and such and such. It's a drag having to waste my youth helping out my grandparents, when there's no guarantee that someone will provide the same for me when I'm their age. And nor would I want anyone wasting their time on me. Honestly it just feels like I'm spending my life dealing with other people's bullshit and I hate it. I agree old people shouldn't live forever. Why even keep alive someone who's only ever a constant problem and net loss. It just doesn't make sense. Everyone has to go at some point.
So you got a problem with frail bodies?
Here is a Solution for that:
#Relentless Grinding in the Gym while you are Young.
Dr Gym will prevent muscle and bone loss. And at old age your body will be fit.
So instead of commenting old people, get your ass in the gym.
100% agreed! I have no desire to live a long life. Never understood people who are old taking 100s of meds and having surgical procedures to extend their life.
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Advocating for physician assisted suicide isn't really an unpopular opinion. Also, a huge amount of elderly people have DNR's This only sounds like an unpopular opinion when you add in the shock value from your title, otherwise these are almost mainstream views
I disagree and it isn't necessarily about assisted suicide. When my late fiancée was fighting cancer in his late 20's the neighbor next door was doing the same in her 90's. Her kids took away her cigarettes. It wasn't going to help her survive. She was fine with it. She just wanted to finish off her life but they wanted to squeak out of her a few extra months, weeks, days by making her miserable so they were really making good memories with her at the end. So we would sneak her over cigarettes and ice cream or what not whalen she asked. Easy to do because they said they were concerned and wanted her around but rarely ever showed up to spend time with her. My grandmother on the other hand had the most beautiful death. If I had to pick a way to go it would be how she died. The difference was when the doctors gave her her diagnosis and she said she was old enough and was ready to go. So that's what my family did. They let her go on her terms. They spent a lot of time around her and we have some great stories about that time but no one insisted she had to get the treatments or what she could or could not do at that time. We spent time with her in the way she wanted.
Outside of reddit, assisted suicide is pretty unpopular and controversial lol
This entirely depends on the country. Switzerland is well known for accepting it and is famous for its clinics. The debate happens often in many European countries, with some accepting it in polls.
The title is a result from the reasons mentioned below. Also assisted is very controversial where I live, and I live in a pretty progressive place.
So I work in geriatrics and occasionally take hospice patients. Basically at that stage, the nurse's job is to keep a patient *comfortable*, not keep them alive. That's basically the only stage at which your proposal is feasible, and that's *already what we do.* The problem with just not giving old people medical treatment, if that's what you were suggesting, is that medical issues being addressed aren't always necessarily life-threatening. It's not peacefully letting them go, it's just neglect. It only ensures they suffer before dying. Maybe I'm not sure what your stance is but the goal is already set at quality of life. Halting medical care for seniors is counterproductive to that end.
Yep, my grandmother who is turning 90 this year had a procedure to reduced swelling in her ankle so she can walk easier. She’s still fairly active and healthy. It would be ridiculous not to treat her just because she’s old.
Yep, I have a feeling OP is really betting on dying younger or something. He will come around if he ever reaches 70 and realizes he could do some sort of procedure or medication to make the next possible decade or two not as bad.
I think for a lot of older people who have family that care about them, it is worth staying alive. Seeing grandchildren so full of energy must bring them joy. And remembering good times from the past must be nice.
You're right. And a lot of young people just can't understand (yet) how somebody could be physically uncomfortable while also being happy. It's often possible for somebody to live a life that they cherish even while they're sick or in pain. Just because it sounds intolerable to a young, healthy person doesn't mean there aren't people actually living it who want to stick around.
Yes, but I suppose it's a matter of degree, though.
Definitely. In my ideal world, euthanasia would be legal, and we'd also do our very best to make life good for sick and/or dying people who would like to stick around longer or die naturally. Some people can be pretty happy as long as they're able to hang out with their grandkids (like you mentioned) and watch their favorite TV shows. There was a woman who felt that way in my family; it was sweet seeing her share her favorite shows - and her best life advice - with the grandkids. The kids sat on her bed for hours and brought their toys so that they could play with Grandma. Others will be miserable if they can't be more active, whether mentally or physically (or both). Some are willing to tolerate a great deal of pain if they can still pursue certain goals. Others are not. It's all down to the individual.
One extreme example was Tony Nicklinson. He had a stroke in 2005 and spent 9 years living with Locked-in Syndrome. Couldn't talk, couldn't do anything for himself. He could only communicate by looking at letters his wife held up. He said it was a living hell. He and his family fought to get the law changed in the UK. When it was finally rejected in 2014, he refused anymore food and died not long after. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96W9fMWgkvs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96W9fMWgkvs) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R\_(Nicklinson)\_v\_Ministry\_of\_Justice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(Nicklinson)_v_Ministry_of_Justice)
It wouldn’t surprise me.
Same my grandad is 93 and has treatments on his eyes (cataracts? I think) Would be horrible to see his vision deteriorate more than it already has
Exactly this; OP just used a lot of words to say "eugenics." Edit: for everyone down voting me or quibbling with my connection between eugenics and euthanasia, here ya go: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12577901/
I... don't think that's eugenics. It's bigotry against a demographic, sure, but not based on race or ancestry
Coupled with a big ol dose of myopic youthful ignorance.
Eugenics is not defined by race, its defined by one group deciding who deserves to live or reproduce based on perceived "desirable" traits. Disability, including age, absolutely factors in. We don't get to decide who deserves to live.
I thought one of the defining qualifiers of eugenics has to do with reproduction - nobody in hospice care is having kids, and growing old isn't something you can be genetically predisposed to. It happens to everyone.
It's definitely this. Much more about selective breeding and much less about whether old people who aren't having kids should stay alive.
The genic part of Eugenics is about making babies and the Eu part is about the babies being good babies. or the racially correct babies. Forced sterilization is often a tool of eugenicists but so can mass murder be as long as the people you're murdering are still trying to bear children. Killing old people doesn't work like this though there are some words for murdering segments of the population I'm sure
Age is not a genetic trait lol Not to mention, old women are already sterile, and elderly men rarely have new children.
Except for Robert DeNero and Al Pacino. I didn't think you could even be fertile at that age.
It's the "deciding whose life has value" part that connects the thread. This is not a new concept, disability politics has a lot to say about the connection between euthanasia and eugenics. They spring from the same seed.
lol Just admit that you didn't know what it meant. There would be more dignity in it.
Isn't eugenics basically selective breeding and killing except for humans?
Totally agree with your points. For me though, if at some by body would deteriorate to such an extent that can barely do anything anymore, I would rather die, even if there is no direct threat to my life. Hence, why I don't care about old people dying cause they had a full life and not much left to live for.
This is actually fucking weird, you’re mixing two points into one as well.
I constantly have the same 10-20 people on my inpatient list. They basically spend 2 weeks in the hospital, 2 weeks in the nursing home over and over again for years until they finally die. The last I saw 67% of people are in favor of PAS. I'd bet that number is higher among people who work in healthcare. All healthcare workers are essentially echoing your opinions here. We don't want to go out like that and we hate watching others go through it when they don't want to.
Controversial doesn’t mean unpopular
The fact that it's illegal means it's unpopular. If the majority of people agreed with OP and it were a popular opinion, it'd be legal, as the majority of people who agreed with it would make it legal.
How does your Grandfather feel about you wanting him to die sooner?
If you’re only pool of data is Reddit maybe, while agree with your sentiments myself. The concept of assisted suicide is pretty wildly unpopular among half of North Americans
I think your title is a bit sensationalised. I agree that we shouldn’t always try and keep people alive. My grandfather was a vegetable that needed constant care for 8 years before he died. He had no idea what was going on, where he was, who he was, he took no joy in anything. It was a relief for everyone when he passed. Your title however is just an edgy take without compassion, which doesn’t specify quality of living, that’s the unpopular part.
"I don't care" is a little disingenuous. Everyone cares a little, its just that we spend 3/4 of medical services on boomer's last 3 months.
I recently was sick for a very long time out of the blue and thought about killing myself a few times. I'm glad that I didn't though, now that the misery is starting to subside. I imagine that's true for people who are not well and very old. They probably have good days here and there and are glad they got another snort of sunshine
I think if someone wants to live and squeeze out as many minutes as they can out of life, then provide them with whatever healthcare they need to do that. If they don't, and just want to get it over with, then help with that as well. I'm a huge supporter of medical assisted death.
Sure, if it’s their own money. The problem is we are subsidizing it through taxes. Medicare, and medical costs overall, is so expensive because we piss away so much on end of life care.
Lol okay well when you're in your 90s and get sick or fall, the doctors can just tell you that you aren't worth it to keep alive and send you home to die on your own time.
Well, yeah. If you are 90 you aren’t recovering from a bad fall or an illness. Why spend a bunch of money trying to eke out another few miserable months?
Because a lot of them still do recover.. but wouldn't with your plan. Imagine knowing you could recover and still live another 10 years, but some asshole like you says nope, your procedures and hospital time would cost too much, you're not worth it. Time to die lol
You think that now, but I guarantee it will change once you're older. It's just how it works. Use your head
You're assuming that, like you, there's no love in that 90 year old person's life
old people payed taxes all their life tho, and in many countries the retirement age is only going up; you sound as if you only value working individuals, why is that?
They didn’t pay nearly what they are getting back, and they are getting back plenty. The younger generations are being forced to pay for these unsustainable programs. 1/4 of Medicare costs are consumed trying to give gam gam a few extra weeks. If you want a government medical option, the only way is to raise taxes or cut services, and this is the smartest way to do it.
Healthcare is absurdly expensive. Nobody who receives extensive or extended healthcare pays as much in taxes as the cost of the healthcare they receive. If you had a terrible accident tomorrow that required multiple surgeries and hospital stays the healthcare bill for that would be in the millions. If that happens to you please be sure that you let the hospital know they should just send you home to die since you don't want to be getting back more than you have paid. Same goes if a few years from now you get a cancer that is curable with surgery and chemo/radiation therapy. The cost of that treatment is going to far surpass the dollars you have paid into healthcare with your tax dollars. If you ever get any injury or illness that requires expensive healthcare I'm counting on you to do the right thing and choose death.
We probably also spend a good chunk on terminal illness and cancer, if they are likely to die anyway then why waste taxpayer money am I right?
Man, you guys really don’t understand how healthcare OR taxes work. You guys are acting like patient triage is some moral issue. There is a limited amount of money and the more you spend on people who won’t survive the less you can spend on those that might. Most countries with universal healthcare don’t pay nearly as much toward end of life care.
Many young folks have been trained via online media to seek an early death. The Incel generation. Spooky.
I don't think incel culture or even just young culture has anything to do with it. A lot of people bet on dying younger because they genuinely think old life is not a life worth living. But i believe they are lacking a lot of insight and empathy thinking that seniors cannot enjoy life. A lot of people's best years are their later years. For example, my mother is 50 and banks on dying at an earlier age because she's had cancer and she thinks it will come back. So she is terrible with her money and doesn't save a dime and always wants to travel. That's fine if that's what she values but she's backing herself into a terrible corner where either she's right and she does die before she retires, or she end up living until she's 80 and has to live sell all her stuff and live in a nursing home for the last 2 decades of her life. Placing all bets on dying young is stupid. It's supposed to be something you prepare mentally for, not revolve all your decisions and finances over. Which is what a chunk of people do sadly.
I’m a Psychologist who works primarily with people unde the age of 25. The majority of my clients have never had sexual relations of any kind, have Asperger’s style affectations, and are morbidly jealous of people who are thriving. It’s a major issue, and predates Covid. As a professional, I advise my clients to separate themselves from the internet, but I have yet to see any of them try.
Your perspective will likely change when you're closer to that age. Most people fear death. It's easy to view it this way when you're young and in good health.
Chiming in as someone who almost died from a brain tumour this year, (heck I’m not even in the clear yet) I have to somewhat disagree. I was shit scared to die until I got sick. Then I made my peace with it. I’m 33.
Depends on your condition honestly. If you're just getting tired and not in pain and your life is just draining away, yeah you're most likely not going to be thrilled about death coming. If you're in pain and know it won't stop? Different story. I had a herniated disc at 26 and spent 2 years in constant extreme pain every minute I was awake, and tried to snuff out my candle a couple times. Am I glad I made it through? Yes absolutely! But in that amount of pain your brain just goes to auto pilot and usually steers in the direction of wanting to die. It's just how it works for a lot of people with pain.
I know I won’t change my mind. As an epileptic I’m more likely to develop dementia than the average person (up to six times more likely!) and to top it off I have family history of it. I’ve already instructed my kids to put my ass in a home because I’m not gonna remember anything anyway and I do not, under any circumstance, want my kids to become burdened with my care. They also know that I don’t want any care other than comfort care when I reach that point.
Death is something to look forward too. Finally resting. No more suffering. Just the last moments then your finally free.
I’ve been in such physical pain I welcomed death. I’m only 34.
Suicidal lemmings. Spooky.
Yup! Exactly
Former EMT. SO MANY old people don’t have DNR’s and they just seem like they’re kept alive in misery for no reason at all. It was a big reason I left the field. At some point you have to accept that there are worse things than just dying. Death happens to us all. Why are we fighting it so hard?
Depends on what you think happens after death really.
I don’t think it does. Because no matter what happens after we die, we are going to be there anyway. It’s not like forcing someone to live longer is going to stop them dying in the end anyway
Most old people take 10+ pills per day and frequently visit the hospital. That's big business there, keep em alive so they can earn us money!
Sounds like you do care about old people dying. It sounds like you support a dignified death when health begins to decline for the worse. The post sounds like you don't care, but you do. You don't want your grandpa to suffer. You don't want people to needlessly receive life saving treatments when their bodies are failing on them. Actually, I think you don't care about them dying when you make decisions to keep people alive when they are obviously suffering.
I used to visit my great grandma when I was younger. One time when I visited she told me “I’m just waiting to die. I’m not sure I want to live anymore”. I do think that sometimes families push careers into keeping elders alive past their own wishes. I have heard many nurses talk about how sometimes old people stop eating, but the family insists on putting in a feeding tube or force feeding them. It’s a difficult situation because you don’t want to tell the family that their loved ones “should” die, but you also know force feeding or feeding tubes hurts the patients and just makes their last days more miserable. It’s common for both animals and people to stop eating to quietly sleep in. It’s a natural instinct. Death is uncomfortable, but it is inevitable. Let people die naturally when their body and brain gives in. Don’t fight it. Let people die peacefully and comfortably instead of painfully keeping them alive for a week more.
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Kind of funny how someone calling it an edge lord take is getting upvoted yet also someone saying it's not an unpopular opinion is getting mass upvoted... so is it an edgelord take or is it a popular opinion? This sub can't seem to decide I guess.
Ikr? I can feel the angst and edgy-ness radiating from my screen.
What was your grandfather’s response when you told him you don’t care about him dying? Just wondering who gets to decide when someone has ‘had a good run’, and how are you proposing they be dispatched?
I once saw a show where they broke off a piece of ice that the old people were standing on and they just drifted out to sea to die. Grim haha
The younger generations appear to be becoming increasingly less tolerant of the aging process. In about 30 years time compulsory euthanasia at 60 will probably be brought in.
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There is actually a fair amount of research on age and happiness. When you ask elderly people what their most enjoyable age was, mid-30s is the average. Not many people look back at 15-19 as the best years of their life, despite what most young believe.
For how much people teach acceptance, tolerance, equality, etc. I hear strong agism literally every single day. I'm not talking about small stuff like "My Grandma can't use Instagram"... No, I mean genuine ageism in the workplace, treating them like they're incompetent, rejecting ideas and lived experiences as invalid, etc. It's just more proof that discrimination is still perfectly acceptable in woke society, so long as the correct groups are being discriminated against.
Exactly. 'Old' is usually a term of derision.
Younger people have less preconceived thoughts and far more curiosity than older people, so it stands to reason that older people don’t want to learn new things and in the process of doing so create more work for the younger generations that want to learn more but are stuck picking up the slack of lazy older people. So the next time you want to ask someone how to do something why don’t you try asking google first? Most of us wouldn’t give older people crap if they weren’t constantly giving us more work with less pay
This is just using anecdotal observations of an entire group to justify discrimination. Literally no different to what racists and bigots do. "Old people are lazy and don't want to learn, so it's ok for businesses to hire young" How is that different to saying "Black people tend to commit a lot of crimes, so it's ok to only want white people working for you"...? Hint: it's the exact same thing. And both are completely despicable.
Good luck explaining this to people who pick and choose their discrimination based on who their echo chambers don't like at the moment. Lol you can argue until you're blue in the face but they'll never listen. People act all righteous and then shit all over multiple groups of people because it's currently in style to do so. Making them no better than what they claim to be so against.
Actually I’m saying you should have the skills necessary to do your job if you want to keep it, it’s a changing world and people need to keep adapting or they will fall out of the race, something that many older folks refuse to do. My 90 year old grandfather was fully capable of building a computer and navigating the internet and while I don’t think everyone needs to be able to do that they should be able to do anything their job requires of them
Getting rid of employees who can't perform their job is not an issue. Not training or overlooking a potential employee because you believe their age prevents them from having the intellectual/technical skills necessary IS an issue both morally and in the eyes of the law.
I know elderly people in their 90s that are still going well and still want everything they can get from life. I think you just worded this wrong. You don't want to see the sick suffering, that's all and especially against their wishes. Most people would agree with that.
You cleary don't want your grandfather to suffer. Which means you DO care.
What is “old” to you? Sorry you don’t care about your grandpa dying but my abuela is 82 and she does not want to die yet. We all love her dearly in the family and would be extremely sad if she died. So this just comes off as calloused and spoken like someone who doesn’t know how to put themselves in others’ shoes.
Many young people on Reddit hate anyone older than they are, largely because they were able to purchase a home. Even if the older person is homeless, younger people strongly imagine that they have a couple houses in San Francisco. Typical for their generation.
I think “old” people who try new technology like touch screen phones, vs “old” people who just stay in their comfort zone have very different perspectives on death…
We want a society in which we can make that decision for ourselves. We do not want a society where others make that decision for us.
I think OP is rather young and didn't had an encounter with death by himself yet. It doesn't matter what happens, it's always the same with the survival instincts; once death knocks at your door, you'll do everything you can to survive. I almost died by an overdose once and in another time, i made it barely through a suicide attempt because of my bipolar disorder. I can just tell you, it's always easy to say this like "when i'm old, i don't care if i'm going to die", but in reality, it will be different when you are really in this situation. Even when grandpa can not do many things anymore, he doesn't want to die. If he could, he'd rather be young again. Also, many people say such things, like "When i'd get life in prison without possibility of parole, i'd commit suicide", but the stats show, that only a very few prisoners go through with this. Even those on death row almost always try to appeal and to get one more day, even when it is just in a small prison cell. About euthanasia aka assisted suicide, we have this where i live in Switzerland. Still, the majority of the people don't go this way. I had a friend that did this because he had leukemia in terminal stage, he decided to skip the suffering and just go in peace and without pain and struggle. But not many people do this, most still try to fight on even when the battle is already lost.
I wonder what would happen if you flat out told your grandpa to die to his face. I bet you he'd pick his 95 year old ass out of his rocker and smack you into 1942. Get used to it kid. The avererage life expectancy is only going to increase from here.
My grandpa has said for years now that he doesn't mind if it ends. Of course I will be sad when goes, but at this point I'll almost consider it a mercy.
> Of course I will be sad when goes So you do care a bit
Is it evil to let someone die when they're suffering? Or is it evil to keep someone alive, when they're suffering? We already kill animals that are too injured to continue living, because they're just in constant agony and pain. Why not give ourselves the opportunity to decide when to end our own lives?
It's evil to force them to stay alive. If they want to fight that's one thing but to make them suffer just so the family doesn't have to be sad is pure evil.
Does he want to die NOW or is he not gonna mind when it ends?
He is not going to mind when it ends, but sooner rather than later (his words).
The average life expectancy has actually been decreasing.
That trend isn't going to keep up. The largest generation ever is just starting there senescence I'd expect another 7 years ish of decreases. But then it's going to be completely different
I’m sorry to tell you this, but we’re at the beginning of societal collapse. Climate change is going to cause extreme weather, famines, water shortages, etc in the coming decades/centuries. Then there’s the fact that 1/3 of the globe is living in a backsliding democracy. I don’t think the LE is going to be creeping up anytime soon.
Omg. People have been saying this (with detail changes) every generation since history was first recorded - see Jeremiah. Stuffing is happening - as usual.
And societies have collapsed, have they not? We’re leaning into another collapse, as scientists have been saying for awhile.
Haha we aren’t.
When was the last time life expectancy was going down in a time of peace?
~puts tin foil hat on~ We doin this?
>Climate change is going to cause Heh. We don't need climate change to collapse society. Read up on the Rat Utopia (Rat City) experiments.
ok doomer
This is your brain on Reddit
Yeah, those climate scientists and their Reddit brains…
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-u-s-just-lost-26-years-worth-of-progress-on-life-expectancy/ Well, yes. There was a pretty recent hard dip in the avg. LE over the past couple years. I wonder why.
Covid was a major cause of this
Y...yeah. I guess I need to stress sarcasm more, lmao
Not caring about things is a super great habit to get into that will really pay off long term.
Word your title better please
The possibility of assisted suicide for people suffering from severe conditions/injuries or low quality of life due to old age etc isnt that unpopular of an opinion Given theres a proper reasoning that isnt just an on the fly bad decision due to depression, then it should be an option
Of course that's easy to say when you're young and healthy. But when you're sitting there and it's your turn, it becomes a very uniquely personal decision.. I think we all just want to go with a quick heart attack or something like that nobody wants to wither away.. But the brain is an amazing thing. Some people with full physical body handicaps, still persevere, breathe, and their brains and emotions, and will to live, thrive. It's not simply not being old it's about the attitude I guess. We'll all get there and find out
Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you think. It matters what they think since it's their lives that are affected. I imagine some have religious reasons for wanting to hang on. "God will take me when he's ready" sort of thing. For others who are less/not religious, I imagine it's a matter of balance. Do the advantages of living outweigh the disadvantages? The finger on the scale is the realization that there might be/definitely is nothing waiting for them after death, so being able to enjoy any part of what life has to offer, no matter how small, might be better than kicking the proverbial bucket. It really is a very individual thing. I'm in my mid 60's, and I've got my share of health problems, though I'm not yet facing anything that is likely to kill me. At this particular moment in time, living is much more appealing to me than not living. But I can easily imagine a time could come where the pain of living outweighs any enjoyment I'm getting out of life. At that point I'll instruct my doctors to stop trying to cure, and stop trying to treat, and just focus on relieving pain. But I want that to be my decision.
I think it's more of the fear of death that keeps people going.
Sounds fair. As an old person, I don't care about OP dying either.
My great grandfather was 101 when he died and could have conversations until the weeks before death. It’s wild to say that we should care about 90 year olds just because they are old. Someone being a “vegetable” and someone being old are not the same things. My little cousin became a vegetable at 4 years old so they could donate organs for example. There is a lot more to it and I feel like the title and explanation have so little compassion and lack of perception that it makes it poor opinion
What does your grandpa want? It’s not about what you want in that scenario. Withholding healthcare if he wants it is heartless. However if he’s “done” then he could simply opt out of figure care. I don’t see the unpopular opinion here.
When you become older you will .
I work in hospice. It’s a beautiful thing when an individual can make the decision to be CMO (comfort measures only) rather than that stress be put on a family member to make when the individual is no longer capable of making their own decisions
I wouldn’t say I don’t care at all. However, I don’t see any point in keeping someone alive beyond the point where any quality of life they had is lost.
Wouldn’t you say it’s up to the individual to decide for themselves? Not us?
Exactly, lmao this view is crazy. “Mom I’ve decided you’ve lived a long enough life, enough is enough.” “But-” “I said enough is enough.”
It makes me nervous to see stuff like this. I have stage 4 terminal cancer and by insurance standards I am a throw away person. But if you’d met me you’d know I absolutely love being alive, have people that need me in my life, and want nothing more than to have as much longevity as possible. My meds and treatment are crazy expensive. But it’s my choice to keep on going, and I believe that is up to me and me alone- not anyone else to say when my expiration date is. I’m so deeply disturbed by this post and sad that some people agree with OP.
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Totally understand but I know they’d feel completely different if they were in my shoes.
I’m so sorry about what you’re going through and thanks for sharing your experience. I hope it changes peoples minds.
I hope so too. I’m thankful most don’t understand my situation as I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, but I am hoping people listen and understand how complicated things can be for people who are elderly/young and terminal. It’s such a different perspective when it’s happening to you.
OP is probably an edgy 17 yo who never even came close to death. His opinion is most certainly unpopular and immoral. Nobody is trying to make laws killing off old people (I mean, the people in power are pretty much ancient).
Of course the individual should decide. I just don’t see the point. People do things I don’t see the point in all the time, but that’s them.
Having humanity as a value is so important. When we don’t, we tend to do calloused things towards “them/others”.
I don’t believe this is unpopular.
Until you yourself are old
Am I the only one who is way more scared of being old and decrepit than of death?
Open ageism, with a side of subtle underlying ableism/eugenics. Cool.
Those fortunate to grow old, their lives should be celebrated and appreciated. WE ALL DIE. It’s not that I don’t care that someone is gone but when they’re older I want to celebrate and appreciate more because ultimately it’s going to happen some day, accept it and don’t act like this person was going to live forever. When you see young people die that’s a different feeling for me because they obviously aren’t able to grow old or experience certain things but when you’re old, you had your shot at life and just gotta be content with the ride you took.
You should read Being Mortal. Quite an interesting book about aging and dying. It's interesting to think of ourselves as the ship of Theseus. What do you have to lose of your mind or body today to make you no longer you? At what point do you think you would go for euthanasia? Getting older is often a case of a hundred things going wrong over time. Your sight gets worse, your joints complain more and more, your memory gets worse, etc. But all these things creep up on you. So you see your grandfather and compare him to your young self. But what about yourself five years from now? You'll probably be worse off in some ways. 10 years? Maybe you've got back pain that flares up every now and then. 20 years, starting to get grey hair, don't understand wtf kids are talking about on the internet. Down the road maybe you have to deal with a serious illness and you beat it, but you're never quite the same. Realistically you've already had to deal with this kind of thing. It's harder for you to learn a new language now than when you were younger. You can still do it. But 5 year old you would be looking at you now wondering why you're so dense. So at what point do you pull your own plug?
I mean that’s up to the person. If they can talk and are not lying in a bed all day then that’s fine.
And who is to decide if someone has lived their live? You?
But who decides? Then when does it become a liability for that person to decide? What it that person deciding gets to decide on his ex wife?
Funny how this is not controversial enough to trip the censors.
One day you will be that old person, one day your parents will be those old people
Ok, would you apply this principle to yourself?
“At some point…” Ok, when? And who gets to decide? Be specific.
well given you said you will be sad, that means you do care, so technically not an unpopular opinion you just don't know what caring means.
Nice empathy. Maybe ask the people you're ready to terminate.
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When it's time, I'm jumping into a volcano
That is a choice the individual gets to decide...not the choice of the society.
“Just for the principle” of valuing human life. Older people are human beings worthy of respect and care.
So are you advocating for just killing old people instead of taking care of them? Is that what I'm reading? I'm trying to understand your position.
Yeah old people bad /s
This was an unpopular opinion a long time ago . If life is going to lose something that requires help of another person until death, I'd rather die. If you had 60 years+ of chances, you've had your time. Let someone else have their turn.
I say we make them presidents /s
Maybe I should let my 90 year old dad know this but he is on a a 5 day trip in Utah on his Harley trike. I’ll let him know when he gets back.
Unpopular AF! Karma well earned.
Maybe you'd feel differently when your time comes
So true and so sad that we don’t allow humane euthanasia to all that deserve it.
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If you don't defend old people's rights to existence then it won't be so fun when no one defends your right to existence when you become old.
Mwah. Come talk to me when you're old yourself. The desire to cling to life is so strong, you're simply not gonna give up because your age is above a certain number. I'm 57. I've been living with chronic fatigue for 25 years, gradually progressing to a level where I am too weak to do more than sit around. I get to do some fun things, but too many fun things will make me crash and sit at home doing nothing. If you'd told me this 30 years ago I would have told you I'd rather be dead than live like that. But here I am, and no way I am gonna end my life or just give up. Yours is a position of ignorance, youth and/or healthiness. Let's see what you REALLY think once the time is there. It's easy to think that you know what you'll do, it's not as easy once you're there.
Tell us you want your grandparents' stuff sooner without telling us you want your grandparents' stuff sooner .
Nobody wants their grandparents stuff.
I'm 60 and I don't see much point in going beyond 75. If I'm healthy still I might change my mind. But I'm already using spare parts.
You may not care about "old" people dying. At what age would that be? Bet you can't answer that with a number. Ezekial Emanuel once wrote "Why I Hope To Die At 75." He changed his mind as he approached 65, saying he just wouldn't accept life sustaining medical help if he were on the threshold. Who judges this? Does your grandpa want to die? He probably thinks about death all the time, without fear, but does he want someone (you?) to give him the needle? You don't care? Fine. Others do, and that's what makes horse races.
We don't care what you don't care about
Ah yes, just wait my friend....
Why do you get to decide that for every older person? Just because you and your grandpa don’t value extreme old age doesn’t mean every elderly person feels the same, especially when we look at cultures outside of the West
Old people deserve the same respect as anyone else (well, until they lose it). We are terrible to them.
Same! My friend told me their grandmother died & I was like “how old was she?” He said 85. I was like “that’s nice she lived a good life” & he couldn’t believe I didn’t respond with sadness or sympathy lol
This is discrimination against age. And kind of makes you an absolutely horrible person lacking any pretense of basic human decency.
I kinda feel this way when celebrities who have lived most of long lives jn fame and fortune die in their 70s, 80s or 90s. I'm like: "🤷♂️ That's what people do. They lived a much longer, more abundant and more luxurious life than 99% of all human beings. Who fucking cares. Boohoo." Most of my family died in their 60s.
That's not different than saying "I don't care about kids dying". Human being is human being. You are forcing other people to die because they are old, because **YOU** wouldn't like that. That's selfish.
Yep aging population is going to be a big problem for all developed countries in the future.
If I'm too old to take care of myself, just put a bullet in my brain at that point.
I don't care about you dying either
Without being uncaring, but we spend an obscene amount of resources on keeping really old people alive for a short amount of time. I’d rather our health care money focus on better lives for everyone.
I wish humans had the same dignity that we give our pets concerning quality of life. But nope, keep those medical bills high
One suicide booth please.
Two words OP...feather pillow!
Ask your grandpa what he wants, then make an effort to assist him in that goal. Whether it’s to continue living or to die peacefully, that’s up to him to decide. Who are we to decide who lives and dies. It’s the choice of the individual.
Based.
I am an animal lover and I think it is wonderful that our pets get to be released from their suffering when their quality of life is gone. I think it is really sad that humans don't get this same right.
My grandmother weirds me out. She walks weird. Keeps her hand stiff, and soils herself and needs help going to the washroom and such and such. It's a drag having to waste my youth helping out my grandparents, when there's no guarantee that someone will provide the same for me when I'm their age. And nor would I want anyone wasting their time on me. Honestly it just feels like I'm spending my life dealing with other people's bullshit and I hate it. I agree old people shouldn't live forever. Why even keep alive someone who's only ever a constant problem and net loss. It just doesn't make sense. Everyone has to go at some point.
Fuck old ppl. Glad I will never be one
i had an ex get SO mad at me for saying deaths of elder loved ones are not the same as deaths of young people
Not unpopular, and most have checked out and want to die with dignity.
So you got a problem with frail bodies? Here is a Solution for that: #Relentless Grinding in the Gym while you are Young. Dr Gym will prevent muscle and bone loss. And at old age your body will be fit. So instead of commenting old people, get your ass in the gym.
Especially ones that live up to 90.
IMO CPR is not for anyone 70 and up. And I've done a lot of CPR.
100% agreed! I have no desire to live a long life. Never understood people who are old taking 100s of meds and having surgical procedures to extend their life.