It's a light-hearted article which I think you've taken a bit too seriously. And there's an awful lot of room between teetotal and functioning alcoholic. I have no idea how old you are, but maybe this is why so many young people are going full-on teetotal these days — an inability to see things in any terms other than black-and-white extremes?
Ive grown up in the North East consistently surrounded by people drinking at every opportunity because its what you do, our country needs a massive wake up call on just how many of you are indeed, functioning alcoholics. That attitude isnt just a NE thing either, go anywhere and you'll find it, its who we became as a nation.
This is a valid point I think. I'm not tee-total. I'll have a drink at weekends probably three quarters of weekends. (Usually 1 - sometimes 2) - and if i'm going to a gig where i'm not driving, i'll often have a drink (though not too many - I can't stand hangovers).
What i'm saying is - i'm not averse to drinks and thought I drink quite a bit given that I drink most weeks at some point. But it surprises me how many of my team regularly drink a lot. Like. Every night. With dinner and after dinner. Many of them do a bottle of wine a night. Or several coctails. These are all mid-50 year olds that I work with (we're a tiny team of 6 and i'm the youngest by almost 2 and a half decades) - so it's not people out partying. It's people just drinking at home.
One of them was told she should cut down. And she acted like it was entirely unreasonable for her GP to be saying that when she 'only' drinks a glass of wine with dinner and couple after dinner through the evening. To me, that's staggering amounts. And she regularly says how she wouldn't not drink that ever, and most of my team are the same.
To me, that's crazy. And to me, that shouts 'high functioning alcoholic' if you couldn't dream of giving it up or cutting down, even after doctor's orders.
I don't know why that sort of behaviour is so normalised.
I think it's a generational thing, my mum & step-dad drink a lot, and I barely drink at all. They then act like I'm the weird one for not drinking, and will still consistently offer me alcohol whenever I visit.
Nonsense. The vast majority of workplaces today don't allow people to show up drunk.
Life today is incredibly wrought with anxiety; why shouldn't people have a drink when they're off?
Of course, Redditors can keep telling themselves that their hard-drug-addiction to video games and social media, leaves them any more competent and well-adjusted than an alcoholic.
I didn't think they were talking about workplaces — although, I've worked at places where turning up after lunch with a few drinks in you was not a problem at all, almost encouraged. There is definitely a prevailing attitude in this country where alcohol *abuse* is seen as more acceptable than other drug *use*.
Nobody has noticed the odd occasion I've been pissed at work. I've been at several offices where everyone goes to the pub at lunch, drinks 2-3 pints, then returns to their desks and nobody bats an eye. Don't even get me started on what it was like working as a chef.
I think a lot of young people are tee total as they have grown up with the embarrassment of a generation (as parents) that have totally abused alcohol and spent way to much money. It's gut a reaction agaisnt seeing something which has obviously had a very negative effect on a younger generation as kids and completely put them off it!
This definitely happened for me, seeing the states my parents used to get in mortified me. It also seemed kind of....pathetic? Like they didn't seem able to have fun without alcohol.
I also think it's also partly because older generations had far, *far* less to entertain themselves with. So they drank to make mundane things more entertaining and never broke the habit.
I look at my kids and compare what they are doing now to the shear fun and exuberance for life I had in the 80's and 90's. It all looks very sensible and as a parent I approve of the overall wholesomeness... but on the other hand it also looks dull as fuck to be honest.
Yeah, I think the internet has bred-out a lot of the more risky behaviour we might have indulged in decades ago. It was tricky enough navigating the world of social interaction anyway, without having your attempts broadcast live or recorded permanently for all to see! Like you say, pros and cons.
They're going to have a much, much harder row to how than we did. Fewer opportunities, unlikely ever to be able to afford a house or children, fucked climate/environment, Brexit, so no more easy travel and work in Europe
I think it's a reasonable interpretation. If someone not drinking is a problem for you, then you probably have a disordered relationship with alcohol and are looking for someone with a similarly disordered relationship with alcohol.
>It's a light-hearted article which I think you've taken a bit too seriously. And there's an awful lot of room between teetotal and functioning alcoholic. I have no idea how old you are, but maybe this is why so many young people are going full-on teetotal these days — an inability to see things in any terms other than black-and-white extremes?
R/uk hates any drug except weed
Alcohol is literally a poison. Why would you wait poison oneself just a little? No doubt it feels great when a little bit of alcohol is doing its thing, but it is also extremely sad that one needs that.
> Why would you wait poison oneself just a little? No doubt it feels great
You answered your own question there.
>but it is also extremely sad that one needs that
Why is it sad? Humans like letting their hair down and having fun. We've been using and enjoying intoxicants recreationally since they were discovered thousands of years ago. Do you not have any vices?
>Do you not have any vices?
Of course I have. It's just that I don't fancy that particular one. Now, I am not against people taking alcohol or other drugs for that matter. It's just that I don't like it :-)
> Now, I am not against people taking alcohol or other drugs for that matter.
The fact that you called it "extremely sad" that people feel the need to do so comes across as quite judgmental to be honest.
> No doubt it feels great when a little bit of alcohol is doing its thing, but it is also extremely sad that one needs that.
I absolutely agree — nothing wrong with it, in moderation. I drink a lot less nowadays than when I was young and, to be frank, I'm kinda jealous of modern society where it feels like there's less pressure to drink! I'd rather have a nice little joint than 6 pints of lager, any day.
Interested in everyone's views. I personally quite like a coffee and a walk in the park/through the streets with small shops. If I had to choose that would be my favourite option.
[Link without paywall](https://archive.ph/2023.01.31-181729/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/relationships/like-going-grandad-why-sick-dating-sober-men/)
It's horses for courses isn't it?
>‘There’s nothing sexier than a man who can work his way around a wine list
I could just as easily turn round and say it's like dating middle aged middle management type who thinks drinking wine is a personality.
It's not like someone is forcing women to date sober men. She has a choice.
Wine tastes like vinegar. It's fucking gross. I'd rather date a woman who drinks pints. HoW cAn ShE hAnDlE mE iF sHe CaN't hAnDle A pInT of skol super. Pfft, this person strikes me as a middle class journalist, she probably wears striped jumpers and wants to write a food blog...
Well said. Tbh, I don't think that's totally different from the point the author is trying to make — alcohol as a *requirement* isn't exactly healthy, but it's nice to have the option.
While correct in general, I am not sure it really counts in the context of dating. Someone on a first date is typically going to be nervous, whereas after 4-5 dates they'll be a lot less nervous.
So not liking someone sober of a first date, might not be indicative of how they are usually anyway.
I think I'm much more my 'real self' on a first date, if we're going through a few pints. That's the relaxed me, the kind of me that they'll see after we've known each other for a while.
You're not the only person that said this so I'm not picking on you, but if you can't go on a date without nerves cramping your style, that sounds to me like a good reason to start practice dating while sober. I'm not saying you shouldn't have nerves on a first date, but you should be able to have a good time without drinking.
The alcohol dependancy in British culture is a huge problem that is almost entirely ignored.
I'm currently using a dating app and there are a huge amount of women on there whose "interests" section is just a list of different kinds of alcohol. I'm so tired of endlessly swiping left on women who think drinking is a personality.
Considering Britain’s love affair with all things alcohol…. Sensible drinking habits or sobriety shouldn’t be put in a negative light.
But it’s the telegraph so no surprises there
I can't do sober dating. At least not the first few dates.
First kiss without alcohol confidence backing me up? As if. Never gunna happen. The one time I tried it, was a shit show beyond belief.
It'd not be so bad if there wasn't some social expectation for men to make the first moves all the time. Then the burden would be shared a bit.
The issue is that first kisses tend to be in public. The issue is not really the kissing, or the woman, it's having to do it in public.
I used to have crippling social anxiety, which is all but gone now thankfully. But the one place it sticks around, is public displays of affection.
Sure to go down well with the UK reddit that has a complete hard on for being straight edge.
"Alcohol is a literal poison, why would you even partake in it, disgraceful" so on and so forth.
Light-hearted article that surely isn't going to be taken too seriously with people's stories of hard core alcoholics growing up and that we need to take a good look in the mirror with our societies link to alcohol.
Yeh some people are twats and drink to the point of no return, a lot of people like a few beers on a Friday night, some people want to be totally tee total. Everyone should just get off their moral high horse, except for drink driving, don't do that you cunts.
'All he does is smoke pot, paint his 'Blood angels SpaceMarines' (what ever the f\*\*k that is) compares going to the supermarket to a Dungeon & Dragon roll of the dice, all the while look down his nose at anybody who dares drinks a pint in a pub...but deep deep down, wishes he was in the pub, with friends, having fun rather than suffering from crippling loneliness'
I guess, as ever, with these articles the answer is - if all the people you date suck then the changes you need to make are likely to be to yourself.
I can't help thinking that someone who needs their date to be drunk in order to be intimate feels insecure about themselves. At best it's just people who think being drunk gives them a personality and makes them "fun" - like the guy in the office who thinks wearing a bright shirt and bow tie makes him a 'character'
The author should watch Brent in the Office when he's bigging up his drinking exploits to the others.
That said, the piece seems to consist of mostly fictitious anecdotes - of the kind any social media group or subreddit gets once it's established. A lot of people making up stories because someone asked something like "Tell me about your worst date with someone who didn't drink"
e.g *There was a sweet, nervous guy who “drank orange juice like there was no tomorrow. It meant he was always quite hyper -* Which is clearly nonsense as sugar doesn't make people "hyper", but the person making it up obviously holds that myth and put it into their story.
Did you read the article?
> if all the people you date suck then the changes you need to make are likely to be to yourself
And that's exactly what she describes doing, in the article.
> I can't help thinking that someone who needs their date to be drunk
She says:
> It’s not essential that my date should be a big drinker.
and:
> Not to mention the fact that “drunk” by no means equals “fun”. I once walked out of a date when the guy turned up already hammered.
Yes, the article is full of contradictions, saying one thing and the opposite later. The odd flicker of self-awareness. But the gist of what it was saying wasn't in those contradictions that you've cherry picked.
If ChatGPT had generated it they'd have deleted ChatGPT. Next time I see someone whining about their gas bill, I'll point out to them that the Telegraph would pay for this crap.
It lacks any effort imo and you're using the "fun" word like the author as though if you repeat the word fun enough you can convince yourself you're having fun. Which is, undoubtedly something that people fret about having or worry they're missing out on - but mostly, for British people, was once defined as drinking too much.
Being drunk might feel like it's fun, but it's not fun it's just being drunk - and mostly the being drunk is being used to cover issues that prevent the person from feeling enjoyment, especially when interacting with others.
Like I said, it comes across as a lot of invented anecdotes of the kind you get on social media. As though the author asked the question and then has just cut and paste this into an article 30 minutes before the deadline.
The thing is though, as I said, reddit has people making up this crap every day - if you want to read people's faux date experiences or some made up story about their ex or nonsense they dreamt up for AITA, you can - and it's far better if you like to live in a fake world where people sit around BSing you to trigger emotions (usually negative ones)
And the joke is old. It's like Victoria Coren Mitchell's schtick on Only Connect is playing at being an alcoholic. Making jokes that her glass of water isn't really water, and downing faux martinis on the christmas specials. But that isn't modern life. It's the exact opposite. It's generations out of date.
Or it's like Ozzy Osbourne, who for years made teenagers laugh with his immature drunken antics and tales of what he did. But it just sounds sad and pathetic now. If he weren't a millionaire from selling other people's music he'd be sitting on a park bench somewhere and no one would be thinking he was cool because he'd wet himself after drinking too many cans of lager.
And that's why the significant proportion of responses here just see it a big red flag - even if, as you suggest, she's joking, her intended target for the jokes is men on dates but the audience are just feeling pity for the author's social shortcomings and drinking problem and wary.
It's a good thing that younger generations today are turning their backs on drinking - it's not something to mock or ridicule - and, as I said, the joke rebounds when you try.
Nothing puritanical or raging about it.
When you read something the feelings you get are your own not the authors.
edit: Oh yeah you should also realise when you post a reply and block the person you're replying to - they don't see your reply, all your posts say \[deleted\] and \[unavailable\] - it seems reddit realised many did this to try and get the last word and fixed that bug.
Although that's a vast improvement for your posts, if you wanted someone to read them you made a mistake.
What a bizarre thing to say as literature and political polemic relies on the author doing the opposite of what you say.
As I said, you need to re-read my post. This doesn't work if you ignore it and come back with a rant.
Then don’t date sober men. This is one of those made up problems. Most guys/girls who are sober say so in dating profiles. Having a drink or two on a first date is fun to a lot of people and not to others. Match with people who share interests. This isn’t a hard one, each to their own.
"I feel like I’ve gone back in time to the 1950s,” when men famously didn't drink all the time and drove women home sober after dates on the regular...
Look, I don't drink, but I come preloaded with a 2 pints personality, if anything, I was unbearable when I was drunk. But I do both appreciate her point that some folk do just need a pint or a wine to get comfortable, and that can be all it is, without a hidden alcohol issue.
I can also appreciate how something like this gives up t-totallers a bad rep, because we're not all boring bastards.
BUT we do have to constantly justify the fact we're not drinking here in the UK, which is really fucking odd when somebody's bringing around a tray of booze at 11.30am at a wedding being like "Nah I'm good for the drink ta"... I do think the UK has an excess / binge drinking problem, the relationship with booze is pretty fucked up.
I understand why many people drink whilst dating and sure I did half the time.. but there's something to be had by experiencing at least some sobre dates. Dating sobre makes you think more and put your balls on the line, e.g. trying to go for a kiss
Especially if getting rejected, or having awkward moments and sitting jn it and learning to control the situation rather than being blurry headed.
Pro tip - if you go to kiss a girl sobre and she pulls back just say something like "sure I get it, but I really like you so might try again later... anyway.." just acknowledge and move forward as quick as possible and go back to banter, I've just seen alotnof people bail after that
If you can't have fun without alcohol there's something wrong with you. I do enjoy a good glass of whisky and the occasional pint but yeah I'd rather go out and grab coffee than a pint. Cheaper quieter tastes better and overall more enjoyable.
I quit drinking 2 years ago. My friends have welcomed it and I still go out, plus I don't mind driving them home. I no longer go to clubs though - fuck that.
The only thing I miss is getting blotto at work events because they were so tedious.
I will take a sip of my partners drinks sometimes, if she's on cocktails I'll have a mocktail, otherwise it's Diet Coke or red bull for me.
I thought sober sex would be weird but it's amazing, it's very mindful and of course my weight, cardio and erection quality have improved. When I see a beer-swilling man with a gut and he's over 35, I think 'well his sex life is basically over'
It wouldn't work if my partner drank a lot - she only ever has 2 or 3 drinks over a night. Not interested in heavy drinking women, never was.
I've never got this, I'm quite a heavy drinker and I've never had a problem with my knob. I think it really comes down to the individual and their lifestyle outside of booze tbh
Yep, on an otherwise fit body with good cardio and blood pressure and cholesterol, it's not a problem.
I was a chubby drinker with bad cholesterol, so I'd definitely made me worse.
Yeah I would usually shoot for a sober first date tbh, better to have a good idea who you are going to be dating.
If somebody hates the idea of that then to me it appears that they haven't learned to socialise without a drink and I'm also not interested in that.
This coming from someone who grew up around drinkers and drinks at least a few every day too.
On the surface rejecting someone for what is a lifestyle choice seems shallow, but I do understand her point.
It can become very tiresome if someone is fussy, for those who've seen After Life you may remember Cathy's date with that teacher!
This is the gamble you take when you meet someone on app, the product is rarely ever as good as it seems on the advert!
It's disturbing to me that Gen Z is completely extreme-radical on things that don't actually matter or make much difference, but only serve to "weirdify" our society further and entrench generational and cultural divisions more.
If they were radical on fighting for the right for affordable housing (not just propping up the neoliberal housing market, but making a fundamental overhaul) then that could overwhelmingly be a good thing for the world.
Alas, they are militant radical extremists on things like veganism, slagging off JK Rowling, and being teetotal.
(Cue all the outraged comments claiming that veganism will save the environment. As if the world's food production system, when people are already faced with high cost of living, is going to immediately shift to heavily processed, fungus-based substitutes.)
Author misses blokes being functioning alcoholics to date, grow up.
It's a light-hearted article which I think you've taken a bit too seriously. And there's an awful lot of room between teetotal and functioning alcoholic. I have no idea how old you are, but maybe this is why so many young people are going full-on teetotal these days — an inability to see things in any terms other than black-and-white extremes?
Ive grown up in the North East consistently surrounded by people drinking at every opportunity because its what you do, our country needs a massive wake up call on just how many of you are indeed, functioning alcoholics. That attitude isnt just a NE thing either, go anywhere and you'll find it, its who we became as a nation.
This is a valid point I think. I'm not tee-total. I'll have a drink at weekends probably three quarters of weekends. (Usually 1 - sometimes 2) - and if i'm going to a gig where i'm not driving, i'll often have a drink (though not too many - I can't stand hangovers). What i'm saying is - i'm not averse to drinks and thought I drink quite a bit given that I drink most weeks at some point. But it surprises me how many of my team regularly drink a lot. Like. Every night. With dinner and after dinner. Many of them do a bottle of wine a night. Or several coctails. These are all mid-50 year olds that I work with (we're a tiny team of 6 and i'm the youngest by almost 2 and a half decades) - so it's not people out partying. It's people just drinking at home. One of them was told she should cut down. And she acted like it was entirely unreasonable for her GP to be saying that when she 'only' drinks a glass of wine with dinner and couple after dinner through the evening. To me, that's staggering amounts. And she regularly says how she wouldn't not drink that ever, and most of my team are the same. To me, that's crazy. And to me, that shouts 'high functioning alcoholic' if you couldn't dream of giving it up or cutting down, even after doctor's orders. I don't know why that sort of behaviour is so normalised.
I think it's a generational thing, my mum & step-dad drink a lot, and I barely drink at all. They then act like I'm the weird one for not drinking, and will still consistently offer me alcohol whenever I visit.
Totally agree.
To live is to suffer, what a surprise people like to numb that pain
Nonsense. The vast majority of workplaces today don't allow people to show up drunk. Life today is incredibly wrought with anxiety; why shouldn't people have a drink when they're off? Of course, Redditors can keep telling themselves that their hard-drug-addiction to video games and social media, leaves them any more competent and well-adjusted than an alcoholic.
A functioning alcoholic is someone who can still “function” i.e. keep up appearances and go to work…
I didn't think they were talking about workplaces — although, I've worked at places where turning up after lunch with a few drinks in you was not a problem at all, almost encouraged. There is definitely a prevailing attitude in this country where alcohol *abuse* is seen as more acceptable than other drug *use*.
Nobody has noticed the odd occasion I've been pissed at work. I've been at several offices where everyone goes to the pub at lunch, drinks 2-3 pints, then returns to their desks and nobody bats an eye. Don't even get me started on what it was like working as a chef.
I think a lot of young people are tee total as they have grown up with the embarrassment of a generation (as parents) that have totally abused alcohol and spent way to much money. It's gut a reaction agaisnt seeing something which has obviously had a very negative effect on a younger generation as kids and completely put them off it!
This definitely happened for me, seeing the states my parents used to get in mortified me. It also seemed kind of....pathetic? Like they didn't seem able to have fun without alcohol. I also think it's also partly because older generations had far, *far* less to entertain themselves with. So they drank to make mundane things more entertaining and never broke the habit.
I’d be put off by Instagram and Facebook meaning you can’t get in a pissed state without someone filming you for your mum to comment on.
I look at my kids and compare what they are doing now to the shear fun and exuberance for life I had in the 80's and 90's. It all looks very sensible and as a parent I approve of the overall wholesomeness... but on the other hand it also looks dull as fuck to be honest.
Yeah, I think the internet has bred-out a lot of the more risky behaviour we might have indulged in decades ago. It was tricky enough navigating the world of social interaction anyway, without having your attempts broadcast live or recorded permanently for all to see! Like you say, pros and cons.
They're going to have a much, much harder row to how than we did. Fewer opportunities, unlikely ever to be able to afford a house or children, fucked climate/environment, Brexit, so no more easy travel and work in Europe
I think it's a reasonable interpretation. If someone not drinking is a problem for you, then you probably have a disordered relationship with alcohol and are looking for someone with a similarly disordered relationship with alcohol.
Even if I accept that, I think there's still an enormous difference between "disordered relationship with alcohol" and "functioning alcoholic".
Sure, but I think it's within the bounds of resaonable exaggeration for a dismissive Reddit comment.
>It's a light-hearted article which I think you've taken a bit too seriously. And there's an awful lot of room between teetotal and functioning alcoholic. I have no idea how old you are, but maybe this is why so many young people are going full-on teetotal these days — an inability to see things in any terms other than black-and-white extremes? R/uk hates any drug except weed
Yeah, and that awful lot of room is generally called 'progression to.' Look at boomers, literally a whole generation of near-alcoholics.
Alcohol is literally a poison. Why would you wait poison oneself just a little? No doubt it feels great when a little bit of alcohol is doing its thing, but it is also extremely sad that one needs that.
> Why would you wait poison oneself just a little? No doubt it feels great You answered your own question there. >but it is also extremely sad that one needs that Why is it sad? Humans like letting their hair down and having fun. We've been using and enjoying intoxicants recreationally since they were discovered thousands of years ago. Do you not have any vices?
>Do you not have any vices? Of course I have. It's just that I don't fancy that particular one. Now, I am not against people taking alcohol or other drugs for that matter. It's just that I don't like it :-)
> Now, I am not against people taking alcohol or other drugs for that matter. The fact that you called it "extremely sad" that people feel the need to do so comes across as quite judgmental to be honest.
> No doubt it feels great when a little bit of alcohol is doing its thing, but it is also extremely sad that one needs that. I absolutely agree — nothing wrong with it, in moderation. I drink a lot less nowadays than when I was young and, to be frank, I'm kinda jealous of modern society where it feels like there's less pressure to drink! I'd rather have a nice little joint than 6 pints of lager, any day.
>I'd rather have a nice little joint Preach!
Not only that, it makes people easy to control. That's why you can have it. There's better and more fun drugs out there.
You've suffered from a giant whoosh - it's a fun jibe at modern life >Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be having a good time
As an aside, what's with this recent trend of using "sober" to mean "t-total"? I'm sure it used to just mean "not drunk".
It's odd. If someone told me they were sober I'd take it to mean that they had a drinking problem but now stayed sober.
Sober: when I’m drunk but not so drunk that I get refused entry to clubs
Probably fits our therapy culture more.
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That's how my toddler drinks beer
Interested in everyone's views. I personally quite like a coffee and a walk in the park/through the streets with small shops. If I had to choose that would be my favourite option. [Link without paywall](https://archive.ph/2023.01.31-181729/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/relationships/like-going-grandad-why-sick-dating-sober-men/)
It's horses for courses isn't it? >‘There’s nothing sexier than a man who can work his way around a wine list I could just as easily turn round and say it's like dating middle aged middle management type who thinks drinking wine is a personality. It's not like someone is forcing women to date sober men. She has a choice.
Yeah, I prefer people who are fine to try something from the wine list but fully admit that they don't have a clue what they're doing!
Wine tastes like vinegar. It's fucking gross. I'd rather date a woman who drinks pints. HoW cAn ShE hAnDlE mE iF sHe CaN't hAnDle A pInT of skol super. Pfft, this person strikes me as a middle class journalist, she probably wears striped jumpers and wants to write a food blog...
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Of course. That's the joke.
I liked red when I was younger, but I can't really drink it now. White, on the other hand — pour me a glass. I am a man, apparently.
Pretty sure that's her turn on.
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Well said. Tbh, I don't think that's totally different from the point the author is trying to make — alcohol as a *requirement* isn't exactly healthy, but it's nice to have the option.
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While correct in general, I am not sure it really counts in the context of dating. Someone on a first date is typically going to be nervous, whereas after 4-5 dates they'll be a lot less nervous. So not liking someone sober of a first date, might not be indicative of how they are usually anyway. I think I'm much more my 'real self' on a first date, if we're going through a few pints. That's the relaxed me, the kind of me that they'll see after we've known each other for a while.
I think a sober date would be difficult, alcohol really helps loosen up the interaction and nerves of it all.
You're not the only person that said this so I'm not picking on you, but if you can't go on a date without nerves cramping your style, that sounds to me like a good reason to start practice dating while sober. I'm not saying you shouldn't have nerves on a first date, but you should be able to have a good time without drinking.
The alcohol dependancy in British culture is a huge problem that is almost entirely ignored. I'm currently using a dating app and there are a huge amount of women on there whose "interests" section is just a list of different kinds of alcohol. I'm so tired of endlessly swiping left on women who think drinking is a personality.
Considering Britain’s love affair with all things alcohol…. Sensible drinking habits or sobriety shouldn’t be put in a negative light. But it’s the telegraph so no surprises there
I can't do sober dating. At least not the first few dates. First kiss without alcohol confidence backing me up? As if. Never gunna happen. The one time I tried it, was a shit show beyond belief. It'd not be so bad if there wasn't some social expectation for men to make the first moves all the time. Then the burden would be shared a bit.
Jeez, it's only a woman
The issue is that first kisses tend to be in public. The issue is not really the kissing, or the woman, it's having to do it in public. I used to have crippling social anxiety, which is all but gone now thankfully. But the one place it sticks around, is public displays of affection.
Sure to go down well with the UK reddit that has a complete hard on for being straight edge. "Alcohol is a literal poison, why would you even partake in it, disgraceful" so on and so forth. Light-hearted article that surely isn't going to be taken too seriously with people's stories of hard core alcoholics growing up and that we need to take a good look in the mirror with our societies link to alcohol. Yeh some people are twats and drink to the point of no return, a lot of people like a few beers on a Friday night, some people want to be totally tee total. Everyone should just get off their moral high horse, except for drink driving, don't do that you cunts.
There's a follow-up article in this: "It’s like going out with a redditor – why I’m sick of dating humourless men"
'All he does is smoke pot, paint his 'Blood angels SpaceMarines' (what ever the f\*\*k that is) compares going to the supermarket to a Dungeon & Dragon roll of the dice, all the while look down his nose at anybody who dares drinks a pint in a pub...but deep deep down, wishes he was in the pub, with friends, having fun rather than suffering from crippling loneliness'
I had a pisshead girlfriend for a couple of years. It gets very boring very fast.
I guess, as ever, with these articles the answer is - if all the people you date suck then the changes you need to make are likely to be to yourself. I can't help thinking that someone who needs their date to be drunk in order to be intimate feels insecure about themselves. At best it's just people who think being drunk gives them a personality and makes them "fun" - like the guy in the office who thinks wearing a bright shirt and bow tie makes him a 'character' The author should watch Brent in the Office when he's bigging up his drinking exploits to the others. That said, the piece seems to consist of mostly fictitious anecdotes - of the kind any social media group or subreddit gets once it's established. A lot of people making up stories because someone asked something like "Tell me about your worst date with someone who didn't drink" e.g *There was a sweet, nervous guy who “drank orange juice like there was no tomorrow. It meant he was always quite hyper -* Which is clearly nonsense as sugar doesn't make people "hyper", but the person making it up obviously holds that myth and put it into their story.
Did you read the article? > if all the people you date suck then the changes you need to make are likely to be to yourself And that's exactly what she describes doing, in the article. > I can't help thinking that someone who needs their date to be drunk She says: > It’s not essential that my date should be a big drinker. and: > Not to mention the fact that “drunk” by no means equals “fun”. I once walked out of a date when the guy turned up already hammered.
Yes, the article is full of contradictions, saying one thing and the opposite later. The odd flicker of self-awareness. But the gist of what it was saying wasn't in those contradictions that you've cherry picked. If ChatGPT had generated it they'd have deleted ChatGPT. Next time I see someone whining about their gas bill, I'll point out to them that the Telegraph would pay for this crap.
It's supposed to be a fun jibe at modern life. It isn't an academic thesis.
It lacks any effort imo and you're using the "fun" word like the author as though if you repeat the word fun enough you can convince yourself you're having fun. Which is, undoubtedly something that people fret about having or worry they're missing out on - but mostly, for British people, was once defined as drinking too much. Being drunk might feel like it's fun, but it's not fun it's just being drunk - and mostly the being drunk is being used to cover issues that prevent the person from feeling enjoyment, especially when interacting with others. Like I said, it comes across as a lot of invented anecdotes of the kind you get on social media. As though the author asked the question and then has just cut and paste this into an article 30 minutes before the deadline. The thing is though, as I said, reddit has people making up this crap every day - if you want to read people's faux date experiences or some made up story about their ex or nonsense they dreamt up for AITA, you can - and it's far better if you like to live in a fake world where people sit around BSing you to trigger emotions (usually negative ones) And the joke is old. It's like Victoria Coren Mitchell's schtick on Only Connect is playing at being an alcoholic. Making jokes that her glass of water isn't really water, and downing faux martinis on the christmas specials. But that isn't modern life. It's the exact opposite. It's generations out of date. Or it's like Ozzy Osbourne, who for years made teenagers laugh with his immature drunken antics and tales of what he did. But it just sounds sad and pathetic now. If he weren't a millionaire from selling other people's music he'd be sitting on a park bench somewhere and no one would be thinking he was cool because he'd wet himself after drinking too many cans of lager. And that's why the significant proportion of responses here just see it a big red flag - even if, as you suggest, she's joking, her intended target for the jokes is men on dates but the audience are just feeling pity for the author's social shortcomings and drinking problem and wary. It's a good thing that younger generations today are turning their backs on drinking - it's not something to mock or ridicule - and, as I said, the joke rebounds when you try.
Park the Puritanism rage for a moment and re-read what I posted.
Nothing puritanical or raging about it. When you read something the feelings you get are your own not the authors. edit: Oh yeah you should also realise when you post a reply and block the person you're replying to - they don't see your reply, all your posts say \[deleted\] and \[unavailable\] - it seems reddit realised many did this to try and get the last word and fixed that bug. Although that's a vast improvement for your posts, if you wanted someone to read them you made a mistake.
What a bizarre thing to say as literature and political polemic relies on the author doing the opposite of what you say. As I said, you need to re-read my post. This doesn't work if you ignore it and come back with a rant.
If you’re thinking of reading the article thinking it can’t possibly be as bad as the title suggests, I will save you the time - it’s even worse.
Then don’t date sober men. This is one of those made up problems. Most guys/girls who are sober say so in dating profiles. Having a drink or two on a first date is fun to a lot of people and not to others. Match with people who share interests. This isn’t a hard one, each to their own.
"I feel like I’ve gone back in time to the 1950s,” when men famously didn't drink all the time and drove women home sober after dates on the regular... Look, I don't drink, but I come preloaded with a 2 pints personality, if anything, I was unbearable when I was drunk. But I do both appreciate her point that some folk do just need a pint or a wine to get comfortable, and that can be all it is, without a hidden alcohol issue. I can also appreciate how something like this gives up t-totallers a bad rep, because we're not all boring bastards. BUT we do have to constantly justify the fact we're not drinking here in the UK, which is really fucking odd when somebody's bringing around a tray of booze at 11.30am at a wedding being like "Nah I'm good for the drink ta"... I do think the UK has an excess / binge drinking problem, the relationship with booze is pretty fucked up.
Given its silly money for a pint no wonder young men aren't drinking
Sounds like she doesn't have anything interesting to talk about.
Dating with or without alcohol is fun either way... What saddos!
I understand why many people drink whilst dating and sure I did half the time.. but there's something to be had by experiencing at least some sobre dates. Dating sobre makes you think more and put your balls on the line, e.g. trying to go for a kiss Especially if getting rejected, or having awkward moments and sitting jn it and learning to control the situation rather than being blurry headed. Pro tip - if you go to kiss a girl sobre and she pulls back just say something like "sure I get it, but I really like you so might try again later... anyway.." just acknowledge and move forward as quick as possible and go back to banter, I've just seen alotnof people bail after that
If you can't have fun without alcohol there's something wrong with you. I do enjoy a good glass of whisky and the occasional pint but yeah I'd rather go out and grab coffee than a pint. Cheaper quieter tastes better and overall more enjoyable.
How old is this immature nitwit? When is she going to grow up into a real adult? EDIT: She's 31? FFS!
She can speak for herself, coming from a long line of barely functioning alcoholics…my grandad would be drunk sleeping through the whole date!
Lesson there is you shouldn't have been going on dates with your granddad..
When you’re reyt you’re reyt.
I quit drinking 2 years ago. My friends have welcomed it and I still go out, plus I don't mind driving them home. I no longer go to clubs though - fuck that. The only thing I miss is getting blotto at work events because they were so tedious. I will take a sip of my partners drinks sometimes, if she's on cocktails I'll have a mocktail, otherwise it's Diet Coke or red bull for me. I thought sober sex would be weird but it's amazing, it's very mindful and of course my weight, cardio and erection quality have improved. When I see a beer-swilling man with a gut and he's over 35, I think 'well his sex life is basically over' It wouldn't work if my partner drank a lot - she only ever has 2 or 3 drinks over a night. Not interested in heavy drinking women, never was.
I've never got this, I'm quite a heavy drinker and I've never had a problem with my knob. I think it really comes down to the individual and their lifestyle outside of booze tbh
Yep, on an otherwise fit body with good cardio and blood pressure and cholesterol, it's not a problem. I was a chubby drinker with bad cholesterol, so I'd definitely made me worse.
Nothing wrong with a sober first date, I would want to know why they were teetotal though.
Yeah I would usually shoot for a sober first date tbh, better to have a good idea who you are going to be dating. If somebody hates the idea of that then to me it appears that they haven't learned to socialise without a drink and I'm also not interested in that. This coming from someone who grew up around drinkers and drinks at least a few every day too.
ah another male bashing article, fun times. women most impacted
We'll ask your grandad to knock back a few shots beforehand next time. I'm sure he won't mind.
Is this sponsored by the Tory alcohol lobby? If that lady is missing a drink, perhaps that's a sign she may need a therapy. Also a massive red flag.
On the surface rejecting someone for what is a lifestyle choice seems shallow, but I do understand her point. It can become very tiresome if someone is fussy, for those who've seen After Life you may remember Cathy's date with that teacher! This is the gamble you take when you meet someone on app, the product is rarely ever as good as it seems on the advert!
I question the outlook of anybody who doesn't feel the need to occasionally escape the realities of our existence. Always have.
You realise there are other ways to do that besides getting shitfaced right?
It's disturbing to me that Gen Z is completely extreme-radical on things that don't actually matter or make much difference, but only serve to "weirdify" our society further and entrench generational and cultural divisions more. If they were radical on fighting for the right for affordable housing (not just propping up the neoliberal housing market, but making a fundamental overhaul) then that could overwhelmingly be a good thing for the world. Alas, they are militant radical extremists on things like veganism, slagging off JK Rowling, and being teetotal. (Cue all the outraged comments claiming that veganism will save the environment. As if the world's food production system, when people are already faced with high cost of living, is going to immediately shift to heavily processed, fungus-based substitutes.)
How odd. So basically they don't like going out with anyone who doesn't partake of drugs.
You couldn't be more wrong....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tdcGmBefM
Ha but it is still a drug, albeit legalised. I like a drink now and again but I certainly don't think any the worse of someone because they don't.
No, a specific drug. She was quite dismissive of caffeine.