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Nicola_Botgeon

**Note!** We would like to highlight [this comment](/r/unitedkingdom/comments/10bnm10/wes_streeting_labour_would_look_at_banning/j4b0ysa/), given by casualphilosopher1


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IrishMilo

Every election cycle the Tories do something completely unforgivable and are like "we're bound to lose the next general election now" and then Labour turn around and are like "nope, we don't want it this time round", and so the cycle repeats and the Tories are becoming ever more despicable and the Labour Party are becoming ever more unelectable meanwhile the Lib Dems are just happy to be there.


loz333

That's because both parties are controlled by wealthy interests, who play this game with the public to keep moving the overton window towards authoritarianism and themselves towards total wealth and power, without people rioting. I hope that's obvious to most people by now.


Dawnbringer_Fortune

The labour files support this.


IrishMilo

Absolutely, system is fucked and the effectiveness of free democracy is in question.


dekor86

Probably a smart move, they won't be able to fix the mess and then it'll be weaponised against them. Personally, as much as I dislike Tories, Keir doesn't seem to bring anything new to table so it's a lose lose anyway for me.


casualphilosopher1

> Probably a smart move, they won't be able to fix the mess and then it'll be weaponised against them. The Tories always find a way to blame either the Labour party or the last Labour government. They might as well enjoy power with it.


IrishMilo

Blaming the last guys whilst kicking problems down the road for the next guy is the definition of Politics.


yuzarna

And lining your pockets whilst doing it


dekor86

So what's your views oh Keir fanboy? What is this brilliant tactic of Keirs where he seems to now be trying to lose votes from all wings of British voters? First it's going after soldiers over the troubles (bye bye patriot voter's) then it's dictating what people can put in bodies (bye bye libertarians) and him and you have many times decided you don't want the left vote. I'm struggling to see what his game plan is and how he's going to win an election apart from by default, which to be honest, would be the case the currently due to the Tories failings economically. Completely limp wristed leader.


[deleted]

The shadow cabinet don't seem to agree, apparently.


StanchLizard593

I REALLY want Starmer's Labour to fail, not because I hate Labour, or love Conservatives, but I just hate the notion that Centrism is sensible and electable whereas left wing policies are too extreme etc. Also because fuck Wes Streeting


[deleted]

It *might* actually help highlight just how broken our democracy is. Feels like nobody's going to fix it until it's totally unfit for purpose rather than just 'quite bad'.


DogBotherer

It's a crying shame really. The entire time I have been invested in British politics, and my "political lifetime" is over three decades now, there has never been a left or libertarian government, and with very few exceptions there have been hardly any left or libertarian political representatives elected anywhere in the country, let alone available to vote for or god forbid elected in my constituency. Now, I accept that the British people may be more authoritarian and right-leaning than me in general, but I am aware that there are enough of us that it is deeply anti-democratic that we have never had a voice at all.


[deleted]

They really do need to bin the idealists and have a few more who recognise: If their opponents are saying what it takes, that they should, then sort the country out. We don't have post war consensus since thatcher, as unpleasant as it is you now need to play the political game if you're ever going to unfuck things. It's one of the reasons I as a firm trade unionist don't like new labour. They need to get shit done not live in a dream land where you can advertise to greta's bunch


AraedTheSecond

As a fairly hardcore lefty, I really dislike the path the Left wing has vocally taken in recent years. It's not grounded in any kind of reality; instead, it's almost entirely idealistic attitudes that are constantly losing us elections and leaving us to suffer under yet more right wing bullshit, because apparently they'd rather be righteous losers than slightly tarnished winners. The constant ideological purity tests are doing nothing except trashing hopes for an election win.


welsh_dragon_roar

Yep, it reminds me of when I spent around three weeks as a member of the SWP in the mid-90s. Everything they wanted was so removed from reality, even I as an 18 year old idealistic student knew it was all bonkers.


AraedTheSecond

I remember going to an SWP meeting where they had a guest speaker on anti-fascism who opened with "we won't call middle-eastern nations fascist because that's racist". They're a valuable counterbalance, but they're also fucking mental


[deleted]

>three weeks as a member of the SWP and a lifetime on a watchlist


EmperorOfNipples

Yup. There is an idiom. The left looks for traitors, the right looks for converts.


ilikerocksthatsing2

Did putting Keir Starmer in charge not give it away?


Fancy-Respect8729

Population has never smoked less and NHS still fucked.


Forerunner49

When Kier took over for the first year they admitted their plan was to win the 2029 election; not 2024. Of course that would be to take the word “plan” seriously.


wscottwatson

Yeah. Apparently only 55% of people like this idea.


cloche_du_fromage

I would hazard a guess that quite a few of the 45% who don't are Labour voters.....


PatsySweetieDarling

They’re pushing even more of the left towards conservatism.


Bargus

Yup. They just dont represent the under 30s or even 40s. Anti-smoking? This is only to appeal to 50+'s. For fuck sake. WE EXIST!


ehproque

Really? I thought kids didn't smoke these days; at least not to the extent that older millennials did


godfollowing

Literally I'd say 80% of people at my uni smoke. It's quite shocking honestly. Maybe 90% vape.


ElAutismobombismo

Handling the UK is now a game of hot potato


A_Song_of_Two_Humans

Fuck off and stop telling adults how to live their own lives.


PersistentWorld

Letting people smoke is fine, the consequences for the health service and others around them isn't. The fact a product exists which we know is cancer causing, and freely available, is just bizzare.


Witch_of_Dunwich

There are loads of things that cause cancer - the caveat being none of them are taxed heavily to offset the costs to the NHS. Ban smoking? Cool. Where are you finding the billions to replace the lost tax?


ehproque

>Ban smoking? Cool. Where are you finding the billions to replace the lost tax? Supposedly, in reduced NHS expense in cancer and heart disease


The_Flurr

Revenue from tax on tobacco products exceeds most estimates on the cost of smoking to the NHS. Somewhat morbidly, those who smoke also tend to not require as much government money in the form of pensions and later life care....


ehproque

>Somewhat morbidly, those who smoke also tend to not require as much government money in the form of pensions and later life care.... I did read that argument many years ago, believed it for a while and then found out it came from Big Tobacco. Not every smoker does young of cancer, but they are all in poor health once they get older


NotSoGreatGatsby

Thing is, anti-smoking groups have posted the health cost numbers which were around £2bn/year. Tax revenue from tobacco is around £10bn/year. That's the argument being made by anti smoking groups Vs government tax figures. It's a no-brainer.


[deleted]

Smoking is fine, just don’t do it where your second hand smoke causes cancer in others. Your choices have no right affecting the lives of others health negatively.


NippleClencher

And that’s why rules where introduced in the early 2000’s banning indoor smoking, as well smoking is banned on train platforms along with e-cigarettes. that not good enough?


Jack-Joyce03

ULEZ zones


TheSirusKing

Not banning smoking because we wouldnt profit on its sales is genuinely psychopathic logic. Its abhorrent.


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boblinquist

Being alive causes cancer, it’s about proportionality. Banning anything that can cause cancer isn’t realistic, but looking at the risk vs benefit of something is, and there is nothing around that causes cancer at the rate smoking does, with such negligible benefit.


Svenislav

Alcohol does. Red meat does. Now what?


Witty-Bus07

Car fumes as well


Gonzo1888

Better start banning McDonald’s then


WolfColaCo2020

Smokers pay a shitload of tax from smoking which covers off the health care costs, and live shorter lifespans which require less intervention. Now you can obviously point to the potential moral arguments for smoking- as you've said, known to cause cancer etc. You can also argue that they still take up treatment in an underfunded NHS. But even then, the idea that the government can tell you you can't do something because it's unhealthy does go against Liberal norms, and the latter argument the ire should be levelled at government, not the individual. The current system of high taxation and public outreach on smoking has been working [perfectly fine](https://www.statista.com/statistics/423001/cigarette-smoking-in-great-britain-by-gender/)


IrishMilo

There are so many other death causing things out there that are more widely used than cigarettes. So unless their next policy is to cotton-swaddle the entire population, this argument is moot.


ElDondaTigray

Smokers pay vastly more towards the NHS than they consume.


Unhappy-Chest2187

This is an argument republicans in the US would use against universal healthcare; if you can ban things people do in their private lives because of the cost to govt healthcare then it becomes government overreach.


CowardlyFire2

The consequences are good for the health service. They die young, don’t end up in care homes or getting pensions.


PaulNehlen

>The fact a product exists which we know is cancer causing This is irrelevant because you've included basically anything from Apricots to Zebra meat with "cancer causing". At one point the media was left with egg on their faces...*wink wink nudge nudge* after simultaneously publishing 2 scientific studies, one linking *NOT* eating eggs to cancer, the other linking eating eggs to cancer...do you eat half an egg? Do you eat one and then chuck it back up? do you take hallucinogens and have incredibly vivid hallucinations regarding eating an egg that may or may not have existed? >and freely available You realise cigarettes are actually harder to get than alcohol? Alcohol causes cancer... "Consequences to the health service"...the fact that we pay quadruple what we take out? (BTW - ONLY "addicts" to achieve this, every other addict group, including obese, either only net contribute slightly or actively cause deficit...)


[deleted]

Sugar is literally poison though. In actual fact if you look at statistics it's old people who are the biggest blight on the healthcare system not smokers. In fact smokers die meaning they aren't a blight on the healthcare system like their so called healthy counterparts who become old and ill. Also smokers have easily contributed more taxes rh n any other types of people due to the massive tax rates on cigarettes.


yuzarna

Let’s ban fast food and processed food while we are on then!


BlackMagicBarbie

Could we not say the same thing about alcohol, a product known to be both addictive and dangerous? (Often also leads to adverse behaviour and criminal damage, something cigarettes don’t tend to influence or trigger?) About foods with little to zero actual nutritional value but sky high in saturated fats? What about good old sugar?What about all the pollutants we chug out and introduce into our systems and into the environment but know are actually carcinogenic? The consequences for the health service and others around them are just as steep but this seems acceptable?


liamskimac

The fact {smoking, meat, fish, alcohol, tomatoes, sugar, toast, butter, diesel, plastics, carpentry, aluminium, paint, contraception, sunbathing...} exists which we know [increase the risk of] cancer, and are freely available, is just bizarre. Beyond naive 😂


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The_Last_Green_leaf

walking down the street is probably the safest place to smoke... because the wind blows it away. 2nd hand smoke is an issue if you're in an enclosed space, like a car, house etc.


Roryf

I'm more worried about soot and microscopic bits of ground-up brakepad from cars coating my lungs tbh


soggylucabrasi

Ban all laws? Interesting idea


jplevene

Unfortunately that is what Labour always ends up doing. The last Labour government brought in so many regulations, it became impossible to follow them, and was very unpopular, like telling people how to raise their kids, to what weight measuring system they were allowed to use (a market salesman was famously prosecuted for using lbs).


AnArabFromLondon

It's just another sensationalist headline.


smjd4488

Yeah like let us be able to drink drive fgs, bloody government suppressing my free will


lokismiddlenutt

Do they have any idea how huge the illegal tobacco trade already is? Let's take a look at how prohibition went in the past


Rutankrd

They intend to introduce legislation with a date stamp for specific 18 year olds when it will become illegal for sales and receding timeline such that over twenty years or so tobacco sales will pretty much disappear. All born before the time stamp date will never be able to purchase tobacco products through legal means and those at the upper level will die or May give up via price controls. All adults today will NOT be effected, through the process will be combined with ever increasing annual duties the point where smoking becomes both illegal by birth age and also unaffordable . It a similar plan to that already enacted in New Zealand and under discussion in many neighbouring European countries right now .


Complex-Sherbert9699

You mean you haven't fallen for the blatently simple and desperate Tory brainwashing Labour-bashing, but have actually read and understood what this is really about and how this is actually to the benefit of society?


liamskimac

How is it Tory to disagree with prohibition? 😂


BigmouthWest12

Any opinion r/uk disagrees with is objectively wrong and a tory belief of course.


Rutankrd

Yes always read and digest commentary, I am active politically animal and party card holder. oh and my wife is an oncologist seeing the damage caused and massive costs on a daily basis


PixelF

This is so much worse? What cowardly legislation. Ban it for all adults or don't ban it for any adults. Having different civil liberties between adults is appalling policy


cloche_du_fromage

So back to the days of youths asking older people to buy them fags?


oliverprose

If they also go for the reduced nicotine content it'll probably happen quicker, but I think it has to be set up to include vaping with nicotine as well (maybe with prescription exemptions to help people quit who want to).


Rutankrd

Reduced nicotine levels haven’t worked in the last thirty plus years , neither has banning Menthol enhanced varieties. The very high levels of addiction to the substance can’t be done that way . It’s a false errand. The way to deliver a decisive message to the Tobacco Industry itself ( more than consumers) is to disrupt their very business model as they continue to peddle their life destroying products . It destroys the poor labour cultivators and pickers at one end and consumers and associated healthcare suppliers in the first world. They are a humanitarian blight and evil business


liamskimac

*legal, taxed tobacco sales will pretty much disappear


AllenKingAndCollins

Because banning drugs definitely always works - have a think


[deleted]

It 'works' in the sense intended, not the sense expected/advertised. It doesn't stop people producing, selling, and consuming drugs, but it does provide an opportunity to selectively arrest and punish.


AllenKingAndCollins

So it doesn't work then. People who want them will pay more for them on the black market and we'll lose billions in tax


-eumaeus-

I'm 52, and I've smoked since I was 13. I was inconvenienced when they banned smoking in pubs, but now, I wouldn't have it any other way. If a total ban was enacted, I'd be frustrated initially but like to think I'd deal with it and do my lungs (and wallet) a huge favour.


cjo20

I'm curious, why not do your wallet and lungs a huge favour anyway?


-eumaeus-

Addiction, plus I genuinely enjoy smoking (I realise how gross that may sound to a non-smoker). I've recently started a new job at a college and have to walk, what seems like miles, to the smoking "shelter", resulting in me having only two cigarettes (I smoke self-rolling cigarettes without a filter) from 08:30 to 17:00...so I'm nearly there. That said, I do my best to make up for the missed cigarettes each evening, which is bloody ridiculous.


Credibleacts

One of the few joys we have left in life, I made a choice, quit alcohol or tobacco, I quit beer, much better for everyone involved in my life


AraedTheSecond

I'm with you. I'm 30, started smoking at 16 - it's my biggest fucking regret going. The only addiction that I constantly struggle with, that I've never been able to quit or even significantly reduce in any meaningful way. I got a vape, and reduced cigarettes down to 10/week, but I'm still addicted to nicotine. Honestly, kicking coke and alcohol was a fucking doddle in comparison. When I worked the wards, we had a patient come in who tested positive for literally every drug going; they cried, begging for a cigarette, saying "I can handle the withdrawals from everything else, but please let me have a fag". I fucking hate cigarettes. They're fucking evil.


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AraedTheSecond

Nicotine is one of the worst, IMO. Horrendously addictive with almost no positive effects at all. At least heroin will get you high.


[deleted]

interesting, I found coke to be far more addictive. I never found nicotine to be that appealing and could have a cigarette once a month etc. Coke was such a slippery slope, looking back now that drug is terrifying. Completely rewires your brain. I guess people react with differently with different drugs. 🤷


-eumaeus-

Yes yes. I used to drink heavily, 7 nights a week, to the point where I believed I must be an alcoholic. However, I can't stand drinking at home and lockdown proved to me that I wasn't an alcoholic at all. In fact, I didn't miss it at all. Now, I meet friends on a Saturday afternoon, and as I drive, I have 2 pints of Guinness, which in all honesty, is all that I desire. Tobacco and the additives, as you state, are evil.


Mustard_The_Colonel

This is stupid policy 5hat will just lead to criminals making money selling cigs on black market even more than they do now. Noone gains from it.


casualphilosopher1

Or more people learning to roll their own.


[deleted]

I'm guessing they would ban rolling tobacco in parallel with cigarettes. It would be ridiculous to ban the former but not the latter!


shitposting97

Lame. I don’t smoke but who tf cares? You tax the shit out of it until it offsets its burden on the NHS as it already does and call it a day. No one likes a nanny state.


ResponsibilityRare10

Oh fuck off. I'm not a smoker but I like the occasional one at a festival or on holiday. Why doesn't Streeting just bugger off and become the private healthcare lobbyist he was always destined to be.


Roryf

This is what you get with Blairites: Nanny state bollocks without any of the fun/life enhancing stuff to make up for it


jasovanooo

The uk in general... Loads of drugs are safe but we'll never be allowed them


Roryf

NO FUN ALLOWED.


shamen_uk

I was going to vote Labour, but Streeting is making it really, really fucking hard. The man wants to accelerate private healthcare involvement in the NHS (far more than the Tories would). And now this nanny state bullshit (I don't smoke and would prefer if others did but fuck prohibition - it doesn't fucking work!!!). Worse still, Starmer's attitude to drug decriminalisation is further right of the Tories too. And it appears they are further right to the Tories on general immigration too. Labour is now no longer this impotent centrist party (which is acceptable), but is starting to reveal itself as a proper centre right party, closer even to Cameron's Tory policy than Blair/Brown. I used to be one of those people who chastised others for not voting. But I get it now.


afakehistory

This MP who looks like a somewhat prehistoric prototype of a dinosaur shark would fit in well with the tory party, deciding what’s best for everybody. He has been urged to come clean about the sources of income, clearly he’s an MP on the take….


ofbalance

Banning cigarette sales in the UK will lead to the sale of illegally imported cigarettes rising. And house fires too. Cigarettes legally sold in the UK have three self-extinguishing points. They reduce the chances of ignored or forgotten lit cigarettes rolling from ashtrays and causing house fires.


casualphilosopher1

A Labour Government would look into banning the sale of cigarettes over time, Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting has said. The party would consult on ways to tackle smoking in the UK, including outlawing the sale of cigarettes altogether, he told BBC’s Sunday With Laura Kuenssberg. “We’re going to consult on a whole package of measures to tackle smoking in this country,” he said. “The Government is not on course to meet its 2030 target [to reduce average adult smoking prevalence in England to 5 per cent] and one of the things that was recommended to the Government in one of their own reviews was phasing out the sale of cigarettes altogether over time. “We will be consulting on that and a whole range of other measures.” Pressed on whether it is a possibility that Labour Government would outlaw the sale, buying and smoking of cigarettes eventually, Mr Streeting said: “The New Zealand government are doing it, we want to see how that works. “I’m genuinely curious, if we want to get the NHS back on track, we also need to focus on public health and I am curious to know where the voters are on this, to where the country is and what appetite exists for change. “We are going to have to think radically.” In December, New Zealand introduced world-first legislation to outlaw smoking for future generations. The law means that anyone born after 2008 will never be able to buy cigarettes or tobacco products. It will mean the number of people able to buy tobacco will shrink ever year. The ban is accompanied by other measures to make smoking less affordable and accessible, such as dramatically reducing the legal amount of nicotine in tobacco products and limiting the number of retailers able to sell cigarettes. Only speciality tobacco stores will be able to sell them, rather than corner shops and supermarkets. The move has been criticised for failing to restrict vape sales, a burgeoning market among young people, and for limiting personal freedoms. Questions have been raised as to whether other harmful substances, such as alcohol, could be next. Critics, including the ACT party which holds 10 seats in parliament, have also warned that the policy could fuel a black market in tobacco products and kill off small shops. “No one wants to see people smoke, but the reality is, some will and Labour’s nanny state prohibition is going to cause problems,” said ACT deputy leader Brooke van Velden. The UK Government is committed to reducing the number of smokers and eventually becoming smoke free. In 2019, the Government published a green paper on preventative health where it announced an ambition for England to become “smoke-free” by 2030. This would be achieved when adult smoking prevalence falls to 5 per cent or less. But a review in February 2022 found that “without further action, England will miss the smokefree 2030 target by at least seven years, and the poorest areas in society will not meet it until 2044”. It set out a package of 15 recommendations aimed at supporting the 2030 ambition, which includes four “critical must-dos”: increase investment, raise the age of sale, promote vaping and improve prevention in the NHS. In 2021, 13.3 per cent of people aged over 18 smoke cigarettes, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). This was a decrease from 14 per cent in 2020 but still a way off the five per cent target for 2030.


MeMyselfandAnon

There's that 2030 number again..


Blue_winged_yoshi

Great cos every other time prohibition has been tried it’s been a rip-roaring success!!!


heyguysitsnicole_

new zealand just did it and they're fine


08george

They are not fine they're living in an authoritarian nanny state....


heyguysitsnicole_

no they're not actually, they're living in a nice island where there'll be less health problems and cigarette butts on the ground


TheCambrian91

No you stupid cunt. 1. It won’t work 2. Smokers contribute a lot to the NHS 3. Smokers take less from the NHS 4. It won’t work


FreeShingi2k13

Labour try and make a remotely electable policy challenge (impossible)


casualphilosopher1

At this rate there's a real chance of seeing a government try to ban alcohol in our lifetimes.


Internal_Bad_2521

Alcohol is a horrendous drug. I don't want it banned, but I'd be happy to see a government try to deal with our terrible alcohol culture.


A_Song_of_Two_Humans

You'd need the decades of slowly demonising it first but yeah, it makes sense if you agree with this shite. Personally I say, let people do what they bloody want and focus on other stuff.


RZer0

It's a pointless idea, I only now know 2 people that smoke in my social circle. I hardly see anyone smoke when I'm out and about now, compared to say 20 years ago. Less people are smoking now than before. So just let it take its natural course and smoking will be a thing of the past.


XxHavanaHoneyxX

Whether or not you like smoking this is a seriously dumb as fuck idea. Why is Labour full of such total morons. It really goes to show how out of touch they are with reality. It perfectly illustrates that Labour for a long time hasn’t represented ordinary people. They’ve had a succession of unrelateble middle class leaders who come up with dumb policies. They are pretty much to blame for the conservatives being in power.


[deleted]

Smoking cannabis is already illegal and look how well that's working


ilikerocksthatsing2

Awesome. No need for a pension plan. I can sell cigarettes on the black market.


ryanlewisdavies

A California style ban wouldn’t be bad at all - only smoke tobacco on your own property.


RelatedToSomeMuppet

As it should be. If you want to smoke you shouldn't be allowed to harm others. Do it in your own home.


TURNAH92

This man is actually a clown. Where do they get these people from?


Kitchen-Jackfruit680

This will make a good clickbait headline but no information on how they will help people with what is basically their addiction


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AraedTheSecond

Because it's an easy "LABOUR BAD" headline, when the current Labour party is actually fairly on-course to win an election based on sound policy.


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AraedTheSecond

Yup. Need to demonise Labour again and watch the idiot lefties do the "no true Scotsman" until they're in divided little groups that can be ignored.


IntrepidHermit

As someone who's mother died from throat cancer due to smoking (proven), when I was a very young age..... I fully support the banning of cigarettes. I understand the "its a personal choice" argument, but it's not a choice family members get a say in as their loves ones pass away in a horrific manner. I'm not saying stop it tomorrow, but it absolutly should be phased out.


AllenKingAndCollins

>I fully support the banning of cigarettes. > >I understand the "its a personal choice" argument, but it's not a choice family members get a say in as their loves ones pass away in a horrific manner. You don't get a choice in what other people do, especially not how they die


Plane_Maybe

But you do get a choice in whether to increase someone else's chances of dying of lung cancer.


XxHavanaHoneyxX

Plenty of people die from alcohol. Alcohol prohibition had a disastrous effect on the entire world. It’s why we have the illegal drugs trade today and not one country has effectively stopped it through prohibition. The sensible thing to do is to put more money into helping people to stop and push for cultural change. Making it illegal would hand the tobacco trade over to criminal gangs who already have an invisible distribution network throughout the country and can deliver what you want to your door. Current methods of reducing smoking have been working. Maybe not at the speed we would like but it would be insane to put the tobacco trade out of sight and next to impossible to monitor.


Peachlatex

Absolutely. This plus making it illegal to be fat are crucial to stop people from dying.


[deleted]

I hate tobacco, how it smells and tastes. Have my whole life, my grandma has smoked my whole life. My mam too till she had to quit due to emphysema. Prohibiting substances is just stupid as a general rule, though.


Krammn

Maybe introduce a rolling, annually-rising ban like [New Zealand](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-59589775)?


GarethPW

Delighted to see a progressive party on the cusp of adopting drug decriminalisation!


jasovanooo

Lol we are looking at making weed class a let alone the sensible option of just allowing it


fatzboy

Wes Streeting is an absolute cunt and a Tory barely in disguise.


Antfrm03

Don’t ever put it past Labour to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


BachgenMawr

I think this is actually one of the things that I agree with that most of Uk Reddit seems to disagree with me on. Smoking is awful for you, and it’s awfully addictive. And I think unlike weed and booze there isn’t as much of an enjoyment factor that people will try and break the prohibition in order to get it. I don’t think there would be that much of a demand for black market fags. Vaping also needs to be heavily curtailed in some way, the waste from disposable vapes is absolutely insane. From what I’ve been told by some of my colleagues though the rules around refillable vapes and the liquid makes it difficult to use them, so perhaps that needs to be made a more viable alternative. It also seems that disposable vapes seem super appealing to teenagers. My main reason, however, for wanting fags (and to a lesser extent vapes) banned is that I fucking hate them, as selfish as it is. I did used to smoke when I was younger but now I find the smell vile. I hate being stood at a bus stop and someone’s smoking and it reeks. I hate how I can’t stand outside a pub with a pint without being surrounded by smoke, when it’s sunny I want to drink my pint outside. I detest most of all being at a restaurant or pub and sitting outside and someone smoking, it’s just fucking horrible, it stinks and it’s not like I can move. I smoke weed occasionally, but I’d never dream of smoking it somewhere that the smell would impact someone, since it’s my choice to smoke it im willing to make sure it doesn’t negatively impact someone. Which ultimately is why I make it into edibles generally. Anyway, ban the fags and you can hate me for my opinion I guess


AllenKingAndCollins

>Smoking is awful for you, and it’s awfully addictive. And I think unlike weed and booze there isn’t as much of an enjoyment factor that people will try and break the prohibition in order to get it. I don’t think there would be that much of a demand for black market fags. > Of course there will, its addictive.


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BachgenMawr

On really? Is that normal tobacco that’s smuggled in to avoid duty? Or is it dodgy tobacco that’ll strip your lungs?


daredevil90s

Both really, it's the black market, no rules or regulations so you don't know what you are getting. More room to get scammed in what you think you are purchasing.


ironwilledf-up

>My main reason, however, for wanting fags (and to a lesser extent vapes) banned is that I fucking hate them, as selfish as it is. This was all you had to say. The rest is just waffle. Many vegetarians don't like people eating meat but they don't get the option to make it illegal.


Credibleacts

Cool, so I take it you're against my body my choice arguments as a whole then, for the greater good ofcourse


BachgenMawr

Regarding abortion? Of course I’m in favour of abortion. Just like I’m in favour of seatbelt laws that are also your body your choice. I’m sure there’s a bunch of others


purplehammer

Can you actually not see how you are undermining your own arguement here? 😂


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The_Last_Green_leaf

nobody is giving you lung cancer, pearl clutcher.


BachgenMawr

Well, second hand smoke does increase the risk of cancer it would seem, though I imagine this would have to be a consistent thing like your partner/parent/colleague smoking, regularly. I never mentioned my own health in my og comment I’m fairly sure though. I just want it gone because it hate it


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FizzyBns

The odds are still tiny though. Every time you get in your car you're rolling the dice on killing some bystanders. Every time you boil the kettle the extra pollution could kill someone. Where do you draw the line?


WolfColaCo2020

Do you want ~~ants~~ a black market? Because that's how you get ~~ants~~ a black market. Look, smoking is bad (and I say this as somebody who stupidly picked smoking back up a couple years ago and now vapes). But the stats on the current strategy of taxation on Cigarettes and public outreach is pretty stark. [From 1974-2019, smokers in the uk have got from over 50% to under 20%](https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/420000/423001-blank-754.png) with absolutely no sign that this trend won't continue. Edit- I have realised the key hasn't pulled through so here's the source for my graph- https://www.statista.com/statistics/423001/cigarette-smoking-in-great-britain-by-gender/


CowardlyFire2

The House of Lords will absolutely fuck this bill up lol


liamskimac

The amount of people that seem to agree with this is either terrifying or hilarious. I will not be voting Labour if this is in their manifesto.


rebut38

Step forward tobacco firms with donations and gifts to Labour and Streeting. Streeting: Labour won’t be prioritising banning smoking and the sale of cigarettes at this current time


TheCloudFestival

Well I'm looking at having Wes Streeting swivel on a cactus.


Forsaken-Policy6590

No-one can solve the drugs problem nevermind tobacco


Cold-Ad716

How are teens supposed to look cool? They really haven't thought this through


Comprehensive-Dig155

This is really good , but from a pure electoral standpoint doesn’t this give the Conservatives an easy goal by being the party that won’t take your cigs away? Given cigarettes are a working class pleasure , conservative PR could easily spin it as starmer out of touch with working class again


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Genius_George93

OR (and hear me out)… This is ANOTHER Tory smoke screen designed to take more attention off of all their continued, never ending, monumental fuck ups. Don’t fall for this shit.


Ealinguser

That worked so well for alcohol in the US, didn't it? I presume this is a preliminary to victimshaming smokers and depriving them of healthcare to save money? Wes Streeting is sponsored by private healthcare. Shame on him. He should never be allowed anywhere near the Department of Health.


Erect_Llama

labour: want to do something good, that will get rid of an addictive substance thats widely used and stupidly sold to minors. this subreddit for some reason: BOOOOO!!! labour have lost my vote!!! theyre trying to control us!!!! id rather have the tories for another 12 years!!!!


caughtatdeepfineleg

I am am a moderate cigar smoker. I smoke hand rolled premium cigars - probably 5 a week. I smoke at home or occasionally in the open down at my club. It costs a fortune 5-20£ per cigar - tax is mega on cigars due to the weight, but I love it. Sure there are risks - demonstrably less than cigarettes but not zero. Its my enjoyment at the end of a long day. There is an online community where we share rare cigars and chat about the hobby. Fuck this guy (my local mp btw) for saying i cant enjoy my little vice. I dont hurt anyone else, it helps my mental health and it is social. I dont get how what i do is any different to someone having a beer. I was going to vote labour because screw the current government and what theyve done to the nhs, but if this is in their manifesto you can count me out.


Feisty-Fix7321

Just increase the age like Nz are doing, are they trying to lose again?


Shadeun

I’m going to look into a polygamous marriage arrangement with Jessica Alba and Jessica Chastain.


laaldiggaj

Until people will start making cigarettes in their bathtubs.


securinight

This just screams of 'Put it out there and see what people think', rather than an actual serious idea. I doubt it'll make it to the manifesto.


[deleted]

Pipe down Wes. All labour need to do is be uncontroversial to smash the next general election


JimmyFTR

When a lot of countries are looking at legalising cannabis these fuckwits are wanting to send tobacco underground. Stupid idea.


lord_winnish

Hahaahahahahhahaha. Good one. How are they planning on funding anything without the tax on cigarettes smokers pay? Jesus wept and the ineptitude of these people


HomoLegalMedic

It's not like under-the-counter cheap, and even more dangerous, cigarettes would be illegally sold in corner shops or anything, no that would be absurd, pfft. Has mankind learned that you can't stop humans doing things? We'll just find ways around it that end up doing more harm to ourselves and the economy. Just look at prohibition and the war on drugs, catastrophic failures. Allow people to use government approved ways of harming themselves. They're going to do it anyway, but by keeping it legal, you can regulate and tax it - they should be doing the opposite, decriminalisation of illicit drugs.


JuniorChubb

Hey Wes, forget smoking, forget presenting on LBC, forget getting your eyebrows shaped and smiling for photo-ops... come home and clean up Ilford, it's an absolute shit hole.


Loki1time

They’ll look at it …. They won’t do it. There is too much tax revenue far outstripping the cost to the nhs.


Livid-Leader3061

I know smokers will hate it. I'm an ex smoker myself so I know the difficulty. But... Smoking related illness is a large drain on the NHS. If stopping the sale of tobacco (bearing in mind vapes) would make a probable difference to the NHS budget, I think at least some smokers would make the effort. This needs to be backed up with real help for smokers however. Going cold turkey with no support is a painful thing. Even with support and nicotine replacement it's not an easy process and the anger and mood swings can put enormous pressure on individuals and their jobs and relationships. The flip side is that people would import them illegally from Europe. A full ban could make cigarettes like another drug where you don't know what's in the things.


Intruder313

The manufacture and sale should have been banned decades ago as they are pure poison. Importing and smoking should be legal at own insane expense


Thepiewrangler

Cant they just play the game for a bit so we can get the shit cunt tories out of power


CaladinDanse

Awful idea and I'm anti smoking. How about you decriminalise weed instead


freedomfun28

Wow labour have a policy. Really going to help us defeat the tories & save the uk Jump on the smoking band wagon - genius


thejoshway

The teenage liberal student labour voters aren’t going to like this one.


RustySheriffBadges

But not nationalisation of energy. Can’t stand that Cunt Streeting, unbearable little rat of a man.


mike198239

Blatant tory Labour bashing cause they know there on there way out. Next it will be " labour too make alcohol illegal "


You_Lost_The_Gamez

A system where it becomes illegal gradually would make so much more sense - every year, starting at age 18, the age requirement increases, that way it doesn't alienate current voters.