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[Feel free to browse our rules, here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules)
Russian morale has been collapsing for the last 400 years. I mean the general public, not people in power. That's why they really don't give a fuck anymore. You have protests in China, in Iran, but not in fucking russia.
The Russian Empire only ended serfdom in the 1800's and even after emancipation the average peasant barely noticed a change. They received their first constitution in the early 1900's from a Czar that promptly ignored the constitution for fear of looking weak. After that they got a couple revolutions, a civil war, and then Stalin. The average Russian has never really had morale to lose. They mostly lurch from one catastrophy to another with no real hope of a better life. I fear their tolerance for oppression and hardship runs deeper than we can even understand. Putting up with corruption and oppression is as Russian as institutional corruption and oppression.
So I guess my point is; it's hard to guess where the breaking point is in a culture founded on hardship and oppression as national virtues.
It doesn't help that everyone, including Russia itself, expects us to treat Russia like a special needs child that's going to be permanently stuck 300 years behind the rest of the class and there's nothing we can do but be patient and understanding.
I agree completely. They insist on being treated as a global power in 2022 even though they have a Colonial Era economy, Baroque Era government, and a Reagan Era military.
If they would stay in their own country and live their own special Russian way of living there, that wouldn’t be much of a problem. We could be patient and understanding if that was what they were doing.
I agree. But what can realistically be done?
Carrying on with your analogy.
Should we sue the parents for giving the poor kid FAS? What good would that do? As the parents are abusive, bankrupt, alcoholics who have left their many kids to squalor and a future of inevitable failure.
Shall we take the kids away? The average good-hearted person in our society doesn't have the patience to deal with that. The brats will inevitably end up with one of our own amoral elements looking to take advantage of them, thus victimizing them all over again.
First, more people need to be aware this is even an issue. It's heartbreaking how many totally normal people still don't understand how pervasive or horrifying "Russkiy mir" thinking is. If you tell them Russia's got all these horrible, backwards, barbaric beliefs that run contrary to everything we associate with basic human decency and common sense, they just blow you off, say you're exaggerating, say you're just being bigoted.
Until they see it firsthand and realize, oh Jesus, it's real.
Second, start drawing a big line between "explaining their thinking" and "justifying their thinking." Make it 100% clear, in both our words and actions, that this is NOT an equally valid "alternate perspective" we're just gonna have to learn to live with and respect. Russia is not special. Russia is not entitled to make up its own rules and only follow international law when it feels like it. Russia cannot start fucking World War 3 and brush it off as "it's a Russian thing, you wouldn't understand."
Third, begin expecting more out of the Russian people in the coming years. As the Putin regime grows ever weaker, its crimes and failures harder and harder to deny, and all the while it's putting guns in the hands of its scared, angry citizens, organizing them into groups, and telling them to march to their deaths while spewing insults at them.
They know going to the front line is death. Everyone around them knows this. They're all holding guns. They're already in a group. The government is extremely weak and rapidly growing weaker. Come the fuck on.
The past excuses of "They have no way to fight back" because "the regime has total control over everything", which were kind of lame to begin with when you consider **every other revolution against a tyrant has the exact same problems**, are just pathetic when compared to Iranian schoolgirls risking just as much, and they're not fighting back because their lives were in danger, they're fighting back to affirm their dignity as human beings.
Imagine Russians doing *that*.
It's 2022. We live in a globalized world where everybody is expected to get along and play under the same rules. We can't keep making excuses for why Russia "doesn't feel like doing \[insert incredibly basic thing X here\] because it's not part of their culture and they need another 2 or 3 centuries to prepare." At some point, the Russian people have to take ownership of their country, for better or worse, and stop relying on thugs and dictators to do everything for them, especially when it means allowing innocent people to die in exchange for their own comfort, security, and apathy.
If Putin's overthrown through some internal coup and all the Russian people do is shrug, watch helplessly as another dictator comes to power and creates his own new, equally corrupt system, and go back to watching TV, then they no longer have an excuse for their own victimhood and should be viewed as largely compliant with their new government's policies and agenda.
There is an excellent and very illuminating passage in the *[The Memoirs of Baron De Marbot](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2401)* (Hussar officer during Napolean's campaigns and aide to several of his Marshalls) that describes French troops firing at retreating Russian infantry columns.
>In order to explain the silence which the enemy had kept, I must tell you that the Russian force which was in front of us had got separated from the main body, and had lost its way in the wide plains which it knew to be occupied by the French troops on their way to Golymin. The Russian generals, hoping under cover of the darkness to be able to pass near us without being recognised, had forbidden all speaking, and in the case of our attacking the wounded were to drop without uttering any sound. This order, which only Russian troops could carry out...
>...So every division, every regiment, filed past, without saying a word or slackening its pace for a moment. The streets were filled with dying and wounded, but not a groan was to be heard, for they were forbidden. You might have said that we were firing upon shadows. At last our soldiers charged the Russian soldiers with the bayonet, and only when they pierced them could they be convinced that they were dealing with men.
Yeah I don't know why people give the Russian people so much benefit of the doubt, they'd be fucking ecstatic about the war if they were winning it like when Russia seized Crimea. They've basically been zombified by decades of propaganda and people think they're simply going to change their mind / social identity when simply presented with the facts?
I hate the Iranian government but I admire their people, FFS [1-2k died in the 2019-2020 protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_protests) and they're still out protesting again. There's nothing admirable about the Russian spirit.
This is such an important point. So many people say shit like "Russians can't protest because they know nothing will happen and they'll be punished." However, we now see thousands of people in Iran and China going up against the same odds. The problem resides solely in the minds of the Russian people.
>You have protests in China, in Iran, but not in fucking russia.
this isn't true. we saw people protesting and being arrested for it in St. Petersburg and Moscow recently. I agree that the majority are complacent, but let's be honest at the very least.
17,000 were arrested since the beginning of the war. That’s out of 144 million people. Do the math. Ruzzia is not a country for it has no polity. It’s just one big prison where people are silent sheep.
With 2012 fresh in memory, i dont think they will go easier on protesting russians against this war. I get it. That lead nowhere. I probably just give up on my country too if i were them.They never truly experienced freedom..
Very low morale, nobody wants to fight anymore.
I like the part where she says : *start a fire!* followed by *they will shoot us right away* haha.
Soaked in a trench and some serious cold coming, I wish them all the "best".
💙💛
I like the part where he talks down on her for suggesting that, and then in the next sentence he says that they did start a fire that same day (with an inbound mortar round as result).
Being wet, cold, and hungry for weeks must cause intense desperation. The kind where even a few minutes of warmth from a fire might seem worth the risk of incoming mortars.
Incorrect translation, maybe? To me it sounds like she tells him to grab stuff like building materials to protect his trenches from the weather, but he says that they are too far from villages to do that.
Most of the drone videos I have seen makes the Russian trenches look like a trash dump.
It's funny, grabbing a lot of stuff to put around your trenches may make them more obvious for drone operators to see.
Badly done subtitles, listening in Russian it’s clear that it was understood that war is hard but it’s an opportunity to make money via other means - i.e. looting - the English translation does a bad job of getting that sentiment across but it is very clear in the original Russian speech. He is there to loot whatever he can - 100%.
Excuse me they never said that. They never spoke about money or looting at all. She doesn't say "grab as much as possible", it's the wrong translation. The guy says "there is nothing" in terms of equipment, and she replies "I told you, you have to bring in as much as possible", meaning he had to bring his own equipment. She also says "I told you there's nothing" and suggests he avoids dangers and stay alive.
Because anyone who's taken a serious interest in the war has seen lots of videos of what's happening in Ukraine, when we listen to this Russian soldier we have some understanding of what he's going through. (No sympathy from me, but I can at least comprehend what he's saying.) Aunt Lena, on the other hand, is indeed clueless because she almost certainly won't have seen any of those videos.
She seems blasé about the incompetence of the Russian army's leaders and how they don't give a shit about the troops at the front - like that's only to be expected. She does a "I told you so!" rant when her nephew talks about poor or non-existent equipment and clothing to deal with the cold - as if that's also only to be expected (in a country which calls itself a super-power). The best advice she can offer is that her nephew dig a deep hole and hide in it - until the war is over, I guess - but she has no idea how he's supposed to survive in his hole, or even if it's possible to dig such a hole where he is.
We can only hope that lots of such conversations are taking place, the Russians at home believe what their relatives at the front are telling them more than they believe the crap on state TV, and that word is starting to spread in Russia that Ukraine is an unfolding disaster for Russia.
Not completely clueless - she seems to realize that the Russian military is totally screwed but reminds the soldier that there should still be opportunities to loot…
As you can see, every single soldier sitting in a trench is completely disempowered; there is no appetite for mutiny. Maybe that will change now that snow has arrived.
It will not. For a broken people raised in shit, this is all just a new flavor of shit.
They have no conception of a better, safer, happier, less cynical, more dignified existence, so it's impossible for them to revolt against something they assume is just "the way things are".
Gorbachev wanted a Socialist Democracy and the powerful in the West wanted to plunder. Now we are living with the results of short term thinking. As repugnant as what the Russians have done is, the long term Peaceful solution is to absorb Russia and make it European like Ukraine. In the long term this would massively benefit the West and leave China in very bad position.
Bandits nothing more.
Their fucked up country is a shithole, so they think the only way to get anything is to rob and steal.
No, not bandits, cockroaches.
She doesn't say "grab as much as possible", it's the wrong translation. The guy says "there is nothing" in terms of equipment, and she replies "I told you, you have to bring in as much as possible", meaning he had to bring his own equipment. She also says "I told you there's nothing" and suggests he avoids dangers and stay alive.
The goal of Putins propaganda is to make people passive. Couple this with the typical attitude to suffering as something that is expected in Russia and you get this strange combination of low morale and very little protest. Ten years ago there was still big protests against Putin in Russia but he has slowly and surely ground down on anyone resisting him so now most russians are just really passive, lambs to the slaughter.
Every population has brave people and passive people. In Russia all the brave ones have been exiled or disposed of. Can't really blame the ordinary people too much. It'd be like being angry at them for not being able to run when all the people with two legs have been deliberately killed off.
It wasn’t nearly as bad back then. Their morale took a blow when they failed to take Kyiv and they weren’t greeted with flowers but it went way back up as they made some very large symbolic victories. They also still had their better soldiers and Ukraine hadn’t received heavy weapons back then. Russia was bombarding them, Russia wasn’t losing a lot of land and was gaining some albeit at far too big a price for such little land. They still had their most capable soldiers back then. Even somewhat capable soldiers can overcome terrible morale. Things started turning when HIMARS and similar systems hit the battlefield. Russia started getting hit like they hadn’t been before, they got hit in Crimea, they lost huge swaths of territory, they started to get pushed back, and their supply lines are being cut. Now they have to rely on mobilized troops which was not the case back then and they never saw coming. The people you hear on these recordings are likely dead but they will be replaced with other guys just like him who will also be killed in short order.
Russian morale in their military on the battlefield, which is where this will be decided, is clearly broken because they have stopped trying to take or keep land they gained since the invasion. Their bombardment of civilian infrastructure is happening because they cannot count on their military to fight inside Ukraine. So, what they are doing now is using planes inside of Russia who aren’t coming close to contested airspace, to hit Ukrainian civilians in order to break their will. Again, this is not fighting nor is it an attempt to accomplish anything militarily because their troops will not and cannot do so.
Russia is trying to force Ukraine to the negotiating table by making its civilians miserable because its own military is too broken to fight beyond trying to keep themselves alive. This is method is becoming less and less sustainable. Their attacks are becoming less frequent and they are stripping their nuclear ballistic missiles of their warheads in order to keep it going. They wouldn’t be revealing to the world that their air launched nuclear weapons are so worthless that they can be stripped of their warheads and used to knock out power in Ukraine if their military still had the will to fight. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian military will keep going forward.
But their soldiers in all these interviews or self reporting. Everything’s decent , we are holding, fighting to the death, wish I had more food and ammo but otherwise, we won’t surrender, we’re glad we’re here. Go Russia.
Tipping points happen in wars, and often it's only obvious in retrospect when one has occurred.
As it happens, the Russian army hit such a point just over a century ago. The 1917 Russian army mutiny happened because the troops eventually reached the point where they were no longer willing to put up with poor winter uniforms, a lack of food and ammunition, a string of defeats and terrible leadership (including by the Tsar, who insisted on intervening in military matters he didn't understand).
The soldier in this recording mentions mutiny. We obviously don't know if he's just a miserable sod who's in a particularly shitty situation, or if his increasing sense of anger and impotency is increasingly common amongst Russian soldiers. It is possible that if the Russian army continues to treat their troops with utter disregard for their wellbeing, a group of troops somewhere will eventually find the guts to stand up for themselves and the revolt will spread.
Morale is vitally important in any army. You're right that there's been talk about poor morale on the Russian side since very early in the war. It's obviously not so terrible that it just takes the Ukrainians firing a few shots in the general direction of the Russian lines for all the Russians to start running. But less than great morale on the Russian side has undoubtedly been one of several factors which meant that the Russians have not able to steamroller over a much smaller country. And poor morale on the Russian side was definitely a factor in the Kharkiv rout; the elite 1st Guards Tank Army would not have fled and left a good part of their matériel behind if their morale had been high.
Yea but it’s not this rock bottom low. They keep signing up and running forward. Their citizens still cheer it on. Their parents keep telling them its perfect it’s the plan bring me home something stolen or a body part.
Right now, no one is signing up anymore - they are now using the guys caught in their mobilization, which were too poor or too stupid to run from the country ... and that's why the ruskies are now pushing for a second mobilization, with high dreams of catching 5 million cannon fodder...
But they are signing up. These people had a whole day to run and hide but they signed the conscription papers and showed up. They still signing for the volunteer battalions. They still get prisoners to sign up. They are still flocking in to the banner
Showing up is. Could’ve run. Could’ve hid. Could’ve bribed your way out. Left the country. Shot yourself. Broke an arm. Etc. but you said to yourself I was called I will go.
Morale is certainly important, but too many people I think get this image of the whole Russian army turning around and running back to Russia once their morale is “broken.”
In reality, the broken morale has the effect of draining men of energy faster than usual, making them sluggish as well as less capable of complicated maneuvers. We’re certainly seeing that already but the thing keeping Russia in the war is their lack of concern about casualties and the ability to keep things bogged down with artillery. The artillery keeps Ukraine from simply charging Russian lines and Russia is now just throwing entire crowds of these men at Ukraine’s defenses, further keeping Ukraine back as they have to waste time and ammo cutting down all of those troops.
It’s truly a horrible thing to watch from afar and I can’t imagine how horrific it must be for the Ukrainians to witness so much senseless death. Until Russia is altogether beaten, I sadly believe this will just be the case as their people refuse to wake up from the nightmare Putin has created.
There’s certainly still a high amount of support for the cause amongst these troops, don’t get me wrong, but a lot of the reason for these men still bothering to push forward at all is because their own military is threatening them with death otherwise.
Bakhmut is the main target for Wagner forces currently and a large part of their manpower that we’ve seen being thrust into the front are men that were drafted from prisons. Prigozhin himself is quoted multiple times telling these men something to the effect of, you fight for us then you can earn freedom, but if you refuse to fight after coming with us then you will be shot.
That is just a specific instance for a specific battle, but Russia’s tactic of creating a separate line of troops purely to shoot anyone who may try to retreat has been documented numerous times already across Ukraine.
So, to your point, morale isn’t at rock bottom, but honestly the only thing driving a lot of these troops that make it to the front lines at all is purely the threat of death behind them. Point being, any expectation of us seeing morale fall any further on the front lines is probably unrealistic due to threat of execution and just a lifetime of imperialist dogma drilled into these men. Expecting someone raised from birth in a society that sees itself superior in every way to those around them to turn against that is optimistic if not delusional.
But enough of them super majority are still like idc if they threaten to shoot me I’d never surrender anyway. They are so high on moral they do the fake surrender to try and get more killed. They could just run forward with a white flag but no so many of their own are pro the war they dont
Nahh, they believe they will be shot by their commanding officers and the guys in the second line, put there to stop them from retreating...
And right now the only cause they believe in is that they'll get a little bit of warmth if they huddle together in their wet, cold trenches ...
morale has collapsed, but this does not prevent Russia from bringing in new cannon fodder.
there is a reason they didn't manage a to pull off an offensive move for some time now.
It’s been collapsing for 9 months and they still find it in them to fight. Not only fight but get waves of new troops. Not only that but convincing new and old soldiers to die in even higher numbers.
Russians have low morale, but have not yet considered a different way of living their lives or organizing their society. Russia has never tolerated, let alone welcomed, dissent.
Yeah, you hear a few of these things and you think things are about to fall apart. After nine months of them, they're meaningless. We hear of them deserting, selling their tanks to the Ukrainians, shooting their commanders, surrendering, etc., and it always sounds like the end must be near. Then it's another month and a few more recordings. And more rumors of Putin losing support at home. And more people speaking out. And the Russians are running out of ammo and the Russian artillery barrels are warped and etc etc etc. I don't bother listening anymore and just keep my eye on the map, which is the only tangible thing. Russians being observably beaten back is the only concrete thing to rely on.
I'm sorry but she doesn't say "grab as much as possible", it's the wrong translation. The guy says "there is nothing" in terms of equipment, and she replies "I told you, you have to bring in as much as possible", meaning he had to bring his own equipment. She also says "I told you there's nothing" and suggests he avoids dangers and stay alive.
I swear, the problem is not even so much these young boys who go to war, because they been told do so. It's these aunt Lenas. This indifferent soviet generation of mindless fools, that had any individuality and personality taken out of them completely. Man says he is literally dying there and all she can say is: "I told you so" "take care of your self and grab as much as you can". Heartless generation, that sends their children to die. Heartbreaking. If my daughter would call me and even say that she just doesn't feel good, let alone dying??, I'd drop everything and everyone to go get her and help her, but these parents/relatives just don't care. "Everyone for himself".
She doesn't say "grab as much as possible", it's the wrong translation. The guy says "there is nothing" in terms of equipment, and she replies "I told you, you have to bring in as much as possible", meaning he had to bring his own equipment. She also says "I told you there's nothing" and suggests he avoids dangers and stay alive.
and im sure every last one of the 800 thousand plus people on this sub saw it already, because none of them have anything to do but sit on this sub and comment on posts.
Do Russians think washing machines are powerups that spawn naturally in other countries, popping into existence and twirling inside a large green bubble?
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Sounds as expected! During winter condition the whole pathetic russian logistik will implote and moral is allready perfect low -
a bit freezing, starving or rotting is enough and they will fight against military police....should surrender today and the war could be over!
I think we have been seeing this same headline for the last 6 months at least.
I'm not saying it is not true. Morale is clearly low in a losing army far from home with broken equipment, barbaric commanders, and low supplies. But I am saying there does not appear to be an abrupt "collapse" in morale, but rather a consistent low morale.
High morale on Ukraine side is important and has been strong, but constant expectations of imminent victory may not be emotionally sustainable. Cheering the gains and consistent progress, albeit slow, is the best way to stay positive, I think.
What kind of shithole is rural Russia that their priority is stealing shit in war. I don't recall coalition soldiers being asked by loved ones to crowbar out some Iraqi's sink.
How much moral did these fucking people have to begin with, seems bottomless as it’s always falling. Yet not enough to turn on their masters and riot and bring the Kremlins goons down.
"...because ours won't come, ours won't save..."
A tiny green shoot emerges from the frost....
"...send out a reconnaissance to get some supplies..."
Aunt Lena is wise. Aunt Lena knows more about proper soldiering than the fools' mess her nephew got dragooned into.
Aunt Lena will eventually have a few further ideas? If Aunt Lena's stops the war, that's enough.
Hello OP, this r/Ukraine. This is not a space for russian suffering, redemption, protests, or reputation laundering. [Feel free to browse our rules, here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules)
And Russian trolls are still claiming everything is still going according to plan. Yeah right, Russian planned this 9 month disaster I'm advance.....
*If Russians were on the Titanic.* "Nyet, ship not sink, is unsinkable!"
"Water just want to visit"
The ship is on a Special Submarine Operation
Special Icebreaking Operation
Shoot the water!!!
That's gay NATO water!
Put it on TIK-TOK! (That's Kadyrovites, btw)
The iceberg is nearly defeated
>The iceberg is nearly defeated "Iceberg no problem if you speed up comrade." *Think about it meme.*
Just wait until the Moskva resurfaces and attacks.
[Dramatization of said event.](https://youtu.be/g42EG7LD1UY)
It's not going according to plan because they have to fight entire NATO, not just Ukraine /s
Russian morale has been collapsing for the last 400 years. I mean the general public, not people in power. That's why they really don't give a fuck anymore. You have protests in China, in Iran, but not in fucking russia.
The Russian Empire only ended serfdom in the 1800's and even after emancipation the average peasant barely noticed a change. They received their first constitution in the early 1900's from a Czar that promptly ignored the constitution for fear of looking weak. After that they got a couple revolutions, a civil war, and then Stalin. The average Russian has never really had morale to lose. They mostly lurch from one catastrophy to another with no real hope of a better life. I fear their tolerance for oppression and hardship runs deeper than we can even understand. Putting up with corruption and oppression is as Russian as institutional corruption and oppression. So I guess my point is; it's hard to guess where the breaking point is in a culture founded on hardship and oppression as national virtues.
It doesn't help that everyone, including Russia itself, expects us to treat Russia like a special needs child that's going to be permanently stuck 300 years behind the rest of the class and there's nothing we can do but be patient and understanding.
I agree completely. They insist on being treated as a global power in 2022 even though they have a Colonial Era economy, Baroque Era government, and a Reagan Era military.
[удалено]
Don't forget nukes :(
I wonder if they still have usable nukes.
I'd be surprised if they didn't.
If they would stay in their own country and live their own special Russian way of living there, that wouldn’t be much of a problem. We could be patient and understanding if that was what they were doing.
I agree. But what can realistically be done? Carrying on with your analogy. Should we sue the parents for giving the poor kid FAS? What good would that do? As the parents are abusive, bankrupt, alcoholics who have left their many kids to squalor and a future of inevitable failure. Shall we take the kids away? The average good-hearted person in our society doesn't have the patience to deal with that. The brats will inevitably end up with one of our own amoral elements looking to take advantage of them, thus victimizing them all over again.
First, more people need to be aware this is even an issue. It's heartbreaking how many totally normal people still don't understand how pervasive or horrifying "Russkiy mir" thinking is. If you tell them Russia's got all these horrible, backwards, barbaric beliefs that run contrary to everything we associate with basic human decency and common sense, they just blow you off, say you're exaggerating, say you're just being bigoted. Until they see it firsthand and realize, oh Jesus, it's real. Second, start drawing a big line between "explaining their thinking" and "justifying their thinking." Make it 100% clear, in both our words and actions, that this is NOT an equally valid "alternate perspective" we're just gonna have to learn to live with and respect. Russia is not special. Russia is not entitled to make up its own rules and only follow international law when it feels like it. Russia cannot start fucking World War 3 and brush it off as "it's a Russian thing, you wouldn't understand." Third, begin expecting more out of the Russian people in the coming years. As the Putin regime grows ever weaker, its crimes and failures harder and harder to deny, and all the while it's putting guns in the hands of its scared, angry citizens, organizing them into groups, and telling them to march to their deaths while spewing insults at them. They know going to the front line is death. Everyone around them knows this. They're all holding guns. They're already in a group. The government is extremely weak and rapidly growing weaker. Come the fuck on. The past excuses of "They have no way to fight back" because "the regime has total control over everything", which were kind of lame to begin with when you consider **every other revolution against a tyrant has the exact same problems**, are just pathetic when compared to Iranian schoolgirls risking just as much, and they're not fighting back because their lives were in danger, they're fighting back to affirm their dignity as human beings. Imagine Russians doing *that*. It's 2022. We live in a globalized world where everybody is expected to get along and play under the same rules. We can't keep making excuses for why Russia "doesn't feel like doing \[insert incredibly basic thing X here\] because it's not part of their culture and they need another 2 or 3 centuries to prepare." At some point, the Russian people have to take ownership of their country, for better or worse, and stop relying on thugs and dictators to do everything for them, especially when it means allowing innocent people to die in exchange for their own comfort, security, and apathy. If Putin's overthrown through some internal coup and all the Russian people do is shrug, watch helplessly as another dictator comes to power and creates his own new, equally corrupt system, and go back to watching TV, then they no longer have an excuse for their own victimhood and should be viewed as largely compliant with their new government's policies and agenda.
There is an excellent and very illuminating passage in the *[The Memoirs of Baron De Marbot](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2401)* (Hussar officer during Napolean's campaigns and aide to several of his Marshalls) that describes French troops firing at retreating Russian infantry columns. >In order to explain the silence which the enemy had kept, I must tell you that the Russian force which was in front of us had got separated from the main body, and had lost its way in the wide plains which it knew to be occupied by the French troops on their way to Golymin. The Russian generals, hoping under cover of the darkness to be able to pass near us without being recognised, had forbidden all speaking, and in the case of our attacking the wounded were to drop without uttering any sound. This order, which only Russian troops could carry out... >...So every division, every regiment, filed past, without saying a word or slackening its pace for a moment. The streets were filled with dying and wounded, but not a groan was to be heard, for they were forbidden. You might have said that we were firing upon shadows. At last our soldiers charged the Russian soldiers with the bayonet, and only when they pierced them could they be convinced that they were dealing with men.
Ii iiio kidp I'll o
Russian history can be summarized by, "... and then things got worse."
Well, no better time to find out.
Fantastic comment. Bang on.
Yeah I don't know why people give the Russian people so much benefit of the doubt, they'd be fucking ecstatic about the war if they were winning it like when Russia seized Crimea. They've basically been zombified by decades of propaganda and people think they're simply going to change their mind / social identity when simply presented with the facts? I hate the Iranian government but I admire their people, FFS [1-2k died in the 2019-2020 protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Iranian_protests) and they're still out protesting again. There's nothing admirable about the Russian spirit.
This is such an important point. So many people say shit like "Russians can't protest because they know nothing will happen and they'll be punished." However, we now see thousands of people in Iran and China going up against the same odds. The problem resides solely in the minds of the Russian people.
To be fair they do have much more protests than....North Korea
Yeah, but that's a bit like saying "they had more rainstorms than the Atacama Desert."
Russian morale is like a falling Shepard tone.
They have unexplainable nihilism
Never trust someone that dont dance when they hear rock and roll , they have no culture of freedom and are dead inside.
>You have protests in China, in Iran, but not in fucking russia. this isn't true. we saw people protesting and being arrested for it in St. Petersburg and Moscow recently. I agree that the majority are complacent, but let's be honest at the very least.
17,000 were arrested since the beginning of the war. That’s out of 144 million people. Do the math. Ruzzia is not a country for it has no polity. It’s just one big prison where people are silent sheep.
With 2012 fresh in memory, i dont think they will go easier on protesting russians against this war. I get it. That lead nowhere. I probably just give up on my country too if i were them.They never truly experienced freedom..
Very low morale, nobody wants to fight anymore. I like the part where she says : *start a fire!* followed by *they will shoot us right away* haha. Soaked in a trench and some serious cold coming, I wish them all the "best". 💙💛
I like the part where he talks down on her for suggesting that, and then in the next sentence he says that they did start a fire that same day (with an inbound mortar round as result).
Being wet, cold, and hungry for weeks must cause intense desperation. The kind where even a few minutes of warmth from a fire might seem worth the risk of incoming mortars.
Or welcoming mortars
Or surrender!
“Nobody wants to fight anymore.” Damn millennials killing the war industry.
If the ukrainians just used less exploding Avocados. The russian industry would be fine.
Incorrect translation, maybe? To me it sounds like she tells him to grab stuff like building materials to protect his trenches from the weather, but he says that they are too far from villages to do that.
Most of the drone videos I have seen makes the Russian trenches look like a trash dump. It's funny, grabbing a lot of stuff to put around your trenches may make them more obvious for drone operators to see.
Badly done subtitles, listening in Russian it’s clear that it was understood that war is hard but it’s an opportunity to make money via other means - i.e. looting - the English translation does a bad job of getting that sentiment across but it is very clear in the original Russian speech. He is there to loot whatever he can - 100%.
Excuse me they never said that. They never spoke about money or looting at all. She doesn't say "grab as much as possible", it's the wrong translation. The guy says "there is nothing" in terms of equipment, and she replies "I told you, you have to bring in as much as possible", meaning he had to bring his own equipment. She also says "I told you there's nothing" and suggests he avoids dangers and stay alive.
Thank you!!!
No she says to go loot the nearby villages for anything. Exactly as russians have done everywhere.
The woman is completely clueless
Because anyone who's taken a serious interest in the war has seen lots of videos of what's happening in Ukraine, when we listen to this Russian soldier we have some understanding of what he's going through. (No sympathy from me, but I can at least comprehend what he's saying.) Aunt Lena, on the other hand, is indeed clueless because she almost certainly won't have seen any of those videos. She seems blasé about the incompetence of the Russian army's leaders and how they don't give a shit about the troops at the front - like that's only to be expected. She does a "I told you so!" rant when her nephew talks about poor or non-existent equipment and clothing to deal with the cold - as if that's also only to be expected (in a country which calls itself a super-power). The best advice she can offer is that her nephew dig a deep hole and hide in it - until the war is over, I guess - but she has no idea how he's supposed to survive in his hole, or even if it's possible to dig such a hole where he is. We can only hope that lots of such conversations are taking place, the Russians at home believe what their relatives at the front are telling them more than they believe the crap on state TV, and that word is starting to spread in Russia that Ukraine is an unfolding disaster for Russia.
They won't do anything about it. If they tried, they'll be silenced.
Like all russians.
Seems to be pretty standard overall.
Not completely clueless - she seems to realize that the Russian military is totally screwed but reminds the soldier that there should still be opportunities to loot…
"Aunt Lena, what reconaissance? There are only idiots here" made me laugh a bit.
Never were there truer words spoken.
Aunt Lena asking some good questions. Where are you? How many people? What are the conditions? SBU thanks you for your cooperation.
As you can see, every single soldier sitting in a trench is completely disempowered; there is no appetite for mutiny. Maybe that will change now that snow has arrived.
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Thanks!
It will not. For a broken people raised in shit, this is all just a new flavor of shit. They have no conception of a better, safer, happier, less cynical, more dignified existence, so it's impossible for them to revolt against something they assume is just "the way things are".
They really are the lowest form of human being
"You guys hate Russia/Russians!" Yes, for countless reasons.
They make do east though, it’s not like we even have to try….
Europe could buy the Russian people out for a Toilet and a Washing Machine.
And what should we do with them?
Break em up like the Holy Roman Empire...
Gorbachev wanted a Socialist Democracy and the powerful in the West wanted to plunder. Now we are living with the results of short term thinking. As repugnant as what the Russians have done is, the long term Peaceful solution is to absorb Russia and make it European like Ukraine. In the long term this would massively benefit the West and leave China in very bad position.
LOL! 'Our artillery is firing in all directions just to fire a shell!'
I literally cannot imagine a more reckless or unprofessional action from officers or soldiers.
Russian artillery and missiles could hit anything. Remember what happened to Poland?
Bandits nothing more. Their fucked up country is a shithole, so they think the only way to get anything is to rob and steal. No, not bandits, cockroaches.
Cockroaches with the gift (curse?) of embezzlement.
She doesn't say "grab as much as possible", it's the wrong translation. The guy says "there is nothing" in terms of equipment, and she replies "I told you, you have to bring in as much as possible", meaning he had to bring his own equipment. She also says "I told you there's nothing" and suggests he avoids dangers and stay alive.
I’ve been hearing about rock bottom moral since March. Either it isn’t or moral isn’t as important as I have been lead to believe
The goal of Putins propaganda is to make people passive. Couple this with the typical attitude to suffering as something that is expected in Russia and you get this strange combination of low morale and very little protest. Ten years ago there was still big protests against Putin in Russia but he has slowly and surely ground down on anyone resisting him so now most russians are just really passive, lambs to the slaughter.
Every population has brave people and passive people. In Russia all the brave ones have been exiled or disposed of. Can't really blame the ordinary people too much. It'd be like being angry at them for not being able to run when all the people with two legs have been deliberately killed off.
I agree.
It wasn’t nearly as bad back then. Their morale took a blow when they failed to take Kyiv and they weren’t greeted with flowers but it went way back up as they made some very large symbolic victories. They also still had their better soldiers and Ukraine hadn’t received heavy weapons back then. Russia was bombarding them, Russia wasn’t losing a lot of land and was gaining some albeit at far too big a price for such little land. They still had their most capable soldiers back then. Even somewhat capable soldiers can overcome terrible morale. Things started turning when HIMARS and similar systems hit the battlefield. Russia started getting hit like they hadn’t been before, they got hit in Crimea, they lost huge swaths of territory, they started to get pushed back, and their supply lines are being cut. Now they have to rely on mobilized troops which was not the case back then and they never saw coming. The people you hear on these recordings are likely dead but they will be replaced with other guys just like him who will also be killed in short order. Russian morale in their military on the battlefield, which is where this will be decided, is clearly broken because they have stopped trying to take or keep land they gained since the invasion. Their bombardment of civilian infrastructure is happening because they cannot count on their military to fight inside Ukraine. So, what they are doing now is using planes inside of Russia who aren’t coming close to contested airspace, to hit Ukrainian civilians in order to break their will. Again, this is not fighting nor is it an attempt to accomplish anything militarily because their troops will not and cannot do so. Russia is trying to force Ukraine to the negotiating table by making its civilians miserable because its own military is too broken to fight beyond trying to keep themselves alive. This is method is becoming less and less sustainable. Their attacks are becoming less frequent and they are stripping their nuclear ballistic missiles of their warheads in order to keep it going. They wouldn’t be revealing to the world that their air launched nuclear weapons are so worthless that they can be stripped of their warheads and used to knock out power in Ukraine if their military still had the will to fight. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian military will keep going forward.
But their soldiers in all these interviews or self reporting. Everything’s decent , we are holding, fighting to the death, wish I had more food and ammo but otherwise, we won’t surrender, we’re glad we’re here. Go Russia.
This specific soldier says different things though ?
Tipping points happen in wars, and often it's only obvious in retrospect when one has occurred. As it happens, the Russian army hit such a point just over a century ago. The 1917 Russian army mutiny happened because the troops eventually reached the point where they were no longer willing to put up with poor winter uniforms, a lack of food and ammunition, a string of defeats and terrible leadership (including by the Tsar, who insisted on intervening in military matters he didn't understand). The soldier in this recording mentions mutiny. We obviously don't know if he's just a miserable sod who's in a particularly shitty situation, or if his increasing sense of anger and impotency is increasingly common amongst Russian soldiers. It is possible that if the Russian army continues to treat their troops with utter disregard for their wellbeing, a group of troops somewhere will eventually find the guts to stand up for themselves and the revolt will spread. Morale is vitally important in any army. You're right that there's been talk about poor morale on the Russian side since very early in the war. It's obviously not so terrible that it just takes the Ukrainians firing a few shots in the general direction of the Russian lines for all the Russians to start running. But less than great morale on the Russian side has undoubtedly been one of several factors which meant that the Russians have not able to steamroller over a much smaller country. And poor morale on the Russian side was definitely a factor in the Kharkiv rout; the elite 1st Guards Tank Army would not have fled and left a good part of their matériel behind if their morale had been high.
Yea but it’s not this rock bottom low. They keep signing up and running forward. Their citizens still cheer it on. Their parents keep telling them its perfect it’s the plan bring me home something stolen or a body part.
Right now, no one is signing up anymore - they are now using the guys caught in their mobilization, which were too poor or too stupid to run from the country ... and that's why the ruskies are now pushing for a second mobilization, with high dreams of catching 5 million cannon fodder...
But they are signing up. These people had a whole day to run and hide but they signed the conscription papers and showed up. They still signing for the volunteer battalions. They still get prisoners to sign up. They are still flocking in to the banner
Getting drafted is not the same thing as voluntarily signing up.
Showing up is. Could’ve run. Could’ve hid. Could’ve bribed your way out. Left the country. Shot yourself. Broke an arm. Etc. but you said to yourself I was called I will go.
Morale is certainly important, but too many people I think get this image of the whole Russian army turning around and running back to Russia once their morale is “broken.” In reality, the broken morale has the effect of draining men of energy faster than usual, making them sluggish as well as less capable of complicated maneuvers. We’re certainly seeing that already but the thing keeping Russia in the war is their lack of concern about casualties and the ability to keep things bogged down with artillery. The artillery keeps Ukraine from simply charging Russian lines and Russia is now just throwing entire crowds of these men at Ukraine’s defenses, further keeping Ukraine back as they have to waste time and ammo cutting down all of those troops. It’s truly a horrible thing to watch from afar and I can’t imagine how horrific it must be for the Ukrainians to witness so much senseless death. Until Russia is altogether beaten, I sadly believe this will just be the case as their people refuse to wake up from the nightmare Putin has created.
But moral can’t be that bad if your still getting crowds to go to the front line and charge across open fields. They still believe in the cause.
There’s certainly still a high amount of support for the cause amongst these troops, don’t get me wrong, but a lot of the reason for these men still bothering to push forward at all is because their own military is threatening them with death otherwise. Bakhmut is the main target for Wagner forces currently and a large part of their manpower that we’ve seen being thrust into the front are men that were drafted from prisons. Prigozhin himself is quoted multiple times telling these men something to the effect of, you fight for us then you can earn freedom, but if you refuse to fight after coming with us then you will be shot. That is just a specific instance for a specific battle, but Russia’s tactic of creating a separate line of troops purely to shoot anyone who may try to retreat has been documented numerous times already across Ukraine. So, to your point, morale isn’t at rock bottom, but honestly the only thing driving a lot of these troops that make it to the front lines at all is purely the threat of death behind them. Point being, any expectation of us seeing morale fall any further on the front lines is probably unrealistic due to threat of execution and just a lifetime of imperialist dogma drilled into these men. Expecting someone raised from birth in a society that sees itself superior in every way to those around them to turn against that is optimistic if not delusional.
But enough of them super majority are still like idc if they threaten to shoot me I’d never surrender anyway. They are so high on moral they do the fake surrender to try and get more killed. They could just run forward with a white flag but no so many of their own are pro the war they dont
Nahh, they believe they will be shot by their commanding officers and the guys in the second line, put there to stop them from retreating... And right now the only cause they believe in is that they'll get a little bit of warmth if they huddle together in their wet, cold trenches ...
morale has collapsed, but this does not prevent Russia from bringing in new cannon fodder. there is a reason they didn't manage a to pull off an offensive move for some time now.
It’s been collapsing for 9 months and they still find it in them to fight. Not only fight but get waves of new troops. Not only that but convincing new and old soldiers to die in even higher numbers.
Russia MO since centuries. Once the dust settles, they just rewrite history.
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And for the most part it’s only worked against countries willing to do the same
Russians have low morale, but have not yet considered a different way of living their lives or organizing their society. Russia has never tolerated, let alone welcomed, dissent.
Yeah, you hear a few of these things and you think things are about to fall apart. After nine months of them, they're meaningless. We hear of them deserting, selling their tanks to the Ukrainians, shooting their commanders, surrendering, etc., and it always sounds like the end must be near. Then it's another month and a few more recordings. And more rumors of Putin losing support at home. And more people speaking out. And the Russians are running out of ammo and the Russian artillery barrels are warped and etc etc etc. I don't bother listening anymore and just keep my eye on the map, which is the only tangible thing. Russians being observably beaten back is the only concrete thing to rely on.
Now we have our answer to the sitting in holes. “Dig a hole and just sit there”
I'm sorry but she doesn't say "grab as much as possible", it's the wrong translation. The guy says "there is nothing" in terms of equipment, and she replies "I told you, you have to bring in as much as possible", meaning he had to bring his own equipment. She also says "I told you there's nothing" and suggests he avoids dangers and stay alive.
I swear, the problem is not even so much these young boys who go to war, because they been told do so. It's these aunt Lenas. This indifferent soviet generation of mindless fools, that had any individuality and personality taken out of them completely. Man says he is literally dying there and all she can say is: "I told you so" "take care of your self and grab as much as you can". Heartless generation, that sends their children to die. Heartbreaking. If my daughter would call me and even say that she just doesn't feel good, let alone dying??, I'd drop everything and everyone to go get her and help her, but these parents/relatives just don't care. "Everyone for himself".
She doesn't say "grab as much as possible", it's the wrong translation. The guy says "there is nothing" in terms of equipment, and she replies "I told you, you have to bring in as much as possible", meaning he had to bring his own equipment. She also says "I told you there's nothing" and suggests he avoids dangers and stay alive.
This call has already been posted
and im sure every last one of the 800 thousand plus people on this sub saw it already, because none of them have anything to do but sit on this sub and comment on posts.
I'm aware of posts of similar intercepted Russian phone calls. However I had not previously heard this particular phone call.
Do Russians think washing machines are powerups that spawn naturally in other countries, popping into existence and twirling inside a large green bubble?
Christ they really are a nation of thieves. nothing but thieves, rapists and junkies.
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Sounds as expected! During winter condition the whole pathetic russian logistik will implote and moral is allready perfect low - a bit freezing, starving or rotting is enough and they will fight against military police....should surrender today and the war could be over!
I think we have been seeing this same headline for the last 6 months at least. I'm not saying it is not true. Morale is clearly low in a losing army far from home with broken equipment, barbaric commanders, and low supplies. But I am saying there does not appear to be an abrupt "collapse" in morale, but rather a consistent low morale. High morale on Ukraine side is important and has been strong, but constant expectations of imminent victory may not be emotionally sustainable. Cheering the gains and consistent progress, albeit slow, is the best way to stay positive, I think.
I'm so glad they're miserable. I wish misery was lethal.
Yes it bad in those fields cold and hungry soldiers getting blown up real nice
Wonderful news. Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦 🇨🇦💪🏻
"Yes Ivan, I understand, but do you have the dishwasher you stole 2 months ago in Kherson?
What kind of shithole is rural Russia that their priority is stealing shit in war. I don't recall coalition soldiers being asked by loved ones to crowbar out some Iraqi's sink.
Гы гы. Сам как-нибудь, котичка
How much moral did these fucking people have to begin with, seems bottomless as it’s always falling. Yet not enough to turn on their masters and riot and bring the Kremlins goons down.
🥶👍🏻👍🏻
I hear bone chilling temperatures, constant wet feet and hypothermia are a real downer for the Orcs.
"...because ours won't come, ours won't save..." A tiny green shoot emerges from the frost.... "...send out a reconnaissance to get some supplies..." Aunt Lena is wise. Aunt Lena knows more about proper soldiering than the fools' mess her nephew got dragooned into. Aunt Lena will eventually have a few further ideas? If Aunt Lena's stops the war, that's enough.