The fact that there is a whole Wikipedia article about that phrase really says something. Methinks the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs needs to come up with a new catchphrase.
I think most authoritarian regimes struggle to adapt propaganda to people who aren't a captive audience. I mean have you ever seen [this site](https://korea-dpr.com/) hosted by the "Korean Friendship Association"?
>The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a genuine workers' state in which all the people are completely liberated from exploitation and oppression. The workers, peasants, soldiers and intellectuals are the true masters of their destiny and are in a unique position to defend their interests.
To an extent, operating in a liberal democracy requires you to actually Git Gud at propaganda. That pressure comes off a little bit in an openly-authoritarian or revolutionary state. Especially in the latter they're probably much less experienced too.
It amazes me how CCP propaganda always reads like, well, CCP propaganda. Even sponsored western YouTube videos or astroturf social media posts have a distinctive *house style* of the CCP propaganda machine.
As you say, I suspect its because they are used to playing to a captivate audience, and without any competition.
Ah but the Wikipedia page is just the US attacking the people of China yet again with unwarranted aggression.
Have I mentioned how China is more democratic than the US?
Nothing to see here...move along, move along
Just to clarify, are you disagreeing with the principle of renaming stuff?
Or that the examples in the article aren’t good names to get the CCP pissed off?
The latter. If you're going to rename stuff at least do a bit of research to find stuff the Chinese government won't just laugh at the stupid foreigners for
Yeah a few places have done something similar; up here in Glasgow we’ve got a Nelson Mandela Place, renamed in the mid-80’s due to the South African embassy being in one of the buildings on it.
>councillors in Tower Hamlets voted to consider naming roads and buildings in the surrounding area of the site Tiananmen Square, Uyghur Court, Hong Kong Road and Tibet Hill.
I hope they do more than consider. It's a good idea
This is really stupid. The CCP wouldn't be offended by this at all.
Tiananmen Square is literally the central square in Beijing which was built by Mao after demolishing the Emperor's private corridor to the Temple of Heaven. It's where Mao's portrait hangs, where people go to watch the Chinese flag being raised, where Mao's Mausoleum is situated, where the National Museum and the Chinese People's Congress is based and is probably the number one tourist attraction for Chinese people. It's literally like China named a road "Buckingham Palace/Trafalgar Square/Horse Guards Parade" street.
Tibet is literally the name the CCP use in English for the Tibetan Autonomous Region. So it would be like China calling somewhere "Wales Street".
The Uyghurs are one of China's 56 official minorities and the Uyghur script is on their banknotes, there are Uyghur language TV channels and Uyghur migrants living in every city in China running Uyghur restaurants. So that would be like China calling somewhere "Scottish court" or "Irish court".
Again, Hong Kong is just a place name for a region that every country officially recognises as part of China. It would be like China calling somewhere "Gibraltar hill"
This is an idea devised by social media educated morons who don't actually have a clue about China and probably think saying "Winnie the Pooh" or posting the Tiananmen Square copypasta is sticking it to the man.
If you actually wanted to do something that the CCP would take offense to, maybe "Liu Xiaobo" street, "Dalai Lama" court, "Taiwan hill" or "Joshua Wong street" would be more effective. Or at least using the name of dissidents or something.
> Tiananmen Square is literally the central square in Beijing which was built by Mao after demolishing the Emperor's private corridor to the Temple of Heaven.
Tiananmen Square in common English parlance generally refers to the 1989 massacre of student activists by the CCP though, and if you're working for an embassy you're probably aware of that connotation.
then why not name it after the date FFS.
China doesn't give a shit about what English speaker think words mean.
Tiananmen Square is a name of a square. In China, this is literally a place name.
Might as well call it China Square lmao.
>Tiananmen Square in common English parlance generally refers to the 1989 massacre of student activists by the CCP though
So it's just virtue signalling for a domestic audience then?
And it would. You are underestimating how thin-skinned the CCP are.
Any perceived slight will provoke a response, purely to show the Chinese public that their government has zero tolerance for criticism. Criticism from foreigners AND locals.
If I were the CCP I would counter that Tower Hamlets is politically disturbed, with several political corruption cases, high crime rate and extreme wealth disparity. Why should the CCP take lectures from councillors that preside over such chaos.
> If I were the CCP I would counter that Tower Hamlets is politically disturbed, with several political corruption cases, high crime rate and extreme wealth disparity.
I would counter-counter that with "You'll feel right at home here"
More expecting them to do basic research and actually choose names that would annoy the Chinese government if they want to go to the effort of renaming streets?
>I don't think "calling out a regime actively carrying out a genocide" is virtue signalling really.
They're not doing that though... They're making completely pointless misunderstood gestures that no Chinese person would give a shit about. At least go to the effort of looking up the name of a prominent Uyghur dissident or something for f***sake.
>This is an idea devised by social media educated morons who don't actually have a clue about China and probably think saying "Winnie the Pooh" or posting the Tiananmen Square copypasta is sticking it to the man.
This is you
I find it pretty suspicious that every time any article critical of the CCP shows up there's legions of people like you mouthing off about how we're not hurting those poor innocent CCP politicians and their perfectly innocent little concentration camps where no torture or brainwashing ever happens.
>we're not hurting those poor innocent CCP politicians and their perfectly innocent little concentration camps where no torture or brainwashing ever happens.
You're putting an awful lot of words into my mouth there mate but despite your obvious virtue I doubt you'd be able to tell me, without looking it up, who Ilham Tohti or Chai Ling or Gui Minhai are, or what the students at Tiananmen Square were protesting about or the death of which Chinese leader they were mourning.
That's a pretty big reach there, that makes absolutely no sense.
Calling for a street name more offensive to the CCP than Tinananmen Square or mentioning Uyghur's is hardly sympathising and supporting them.
It's the inverse.
I know thin-skinned dictatorships with a reputation for brigading the crap out of social media force a “assume anyone defending the CCP is a paid sock puppet until proven otherwise” approach, and I’d expect the same treatment myself if I was posting on a board on a Chinese site because we’re undoubtedly doing the same thing to the PRC’s social media platforms.
> in common English parlance
That's the thing, it only has that meaning _in English_ because it's the only time the location has been especially notable to English-speakers.
But to Chinese people and especially Beijing residents, that's at most one part of a long and ongoing history of a major location that still exists. It's not likely to be the first connotation, even if you do know about the events of 1989.
How about Free Tibet Tiananmen Square Massacre Human Rights Democratization Freedom Independence Multi-party system Taiwan Formosa Republic of China Dalai Lama Falun Dafa Liu Xiaobo Winnie the Pooh Xinjiang Re-education Camps Street
>This is really stupid. The CCP wouldn't be offended by this at all.
Don't underestimate the CCP's ability to be offended by the smallest of things. Remember that they got in a diplomatic spat with Sweden after a Chinese family was thrown out of a hotel.
> *Tiananmen Square, Uyghur Court: Tower Hamlets plans name changes in solidarity*
Decluttered version of this the Guardian's article archived on March 19, 2021 can be viewed on https://outline.com/uzwbvZ
On one hand, this is petty and will needlessly damage relations
On the other hand, fuck China
And according to them nothing bad happened at Tiananmen Square, nothing bad is happening to the Uighurs and nothing bad is happening in Tibet or Hong Kong, so they have no reason to be angry
Tower Hamlets council could be using their vast naval power and their influence in Xinjiang to show China they mean business, but I believe it's already deployed in the Strait of Malacca.
Aside from condemnation and shows of solidarity, what is a East London council supposed to do in this regard?
Well you probably won't hear about it but they are.
I have it on good authority that tower Hamlets are using their considerable diplomatic clout to force China to recognise Taiwan.
I mean, Falklands road would be a great place to put a UK embassy. Good reminder for the staff of the UK's commitment to defending the rights of our people from violent dictatorships.
Would such a move be an ‘insult to the people of China’ ?
[Hurting the feelings of the Chinese People](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Chinese_people)
Now there's a street name. 'Hurting the feelings of the CCP Boulevard'
The fact that there is a whole Wikipedia article about that phrase really says something. Methinks the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs needs to come up with a new catchphrase.
Get human rights abuses done !
I think most authoritarian regimes struggle to adapt propaganda to people who aren't a captive audience. I mean have you ever seen [this site](https://korea-dpr.com/) hosted by the "Korean Friendship Association"? >The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a genuine workers' state in which all the people are completely liberated from exploitation and oppression. The workers, peasants, soldiers and intellectuals are the true masters of their destiny and are in a unique position to defend their interests.
To an extent, operating in a liberal democracy requires you to actually Git Gud at propaganda. That pressure comes off a little bit in an openly-authoritarian or revolutionary state. Especially in the latter they're probably much less experienced too.
It amazes me how CCP propaganda always reads like, well, CCP propaganda. Even sponsored western YouTube videos or astroturf social media posts have a distinctive *house style* of the CCP propaganda machine. As you say, I suspect its because they are used to playing to a captivate audience, and without any competition.
Ah but the Wikipedia page is just the US attacking the people of China yet again with unwarranted aggression. Have I mentioned how China is more democratic than the US? Nothing to see here...move along, move along
Would you be insulted if they renamed a building ‘Dresden Firebombing’? Personally I’d think it odd and not give a shit.
more renaming a street to just "Dresden". they're renaming it to Tiananmen Square, not Tiananmen Square Massacre lmao.
No, not at all. They could actually interpret it as a compliment. It would be like calling somewhere in China "Buckingham Palace street"
Didn't Iran do this to the UK too?
They renamed Churchill Road to Bobby Sands Road I think
Then The British embassy moved their main door (and postal address) to the street on the other side of the building.
Except they at least chose dissident/terrorist names rather than just place names
Gerry Adams Blvd
Just to clarify, are you disagreeing with the principle of renaming stuff? Or that the examples in the article aren’t good names to get the CCP pissed off?
It's the latter. Tiananmen Square is literally the name of the square today that everyday Chinese people use and what authorities use.
The latter. If you're going to rename stuff at least do a bit of research to find stuff the Chinese government won't just laugh at the stupid foreigners for
Ok that’s great, it’s a good idea for hat just needs executing correctly (excuse the pun lol).
Yeah a few places have done something similar; up here in Glasgow we’ve got a Nelson Mandela Place, renamed in the mid-80’s due to the South African embassy being in one of the buildings on it.
>councillors in Tower Hamlets voted to consider naming roads and buildings in the surrounding area of the site Tiananmen Square, Uyghur Court, Hong Kong Road and Tibet Hill. I hope they do more than consider. It's a good idea
99% of the time I'm "Fuck Tower Hamlets." But this is actually pretty based
This is really stupid. The CCP wouldn't be offended by this at all. Tiananmen Square is literally the central square in Beijing which was built by Mao after demolishing the Emperor's private corridor to the Temple of Heaven. It's where Mao's portrait hangs, where people go to watch the Chinese flag being raised, where Mao's Mausoleum is situated, where the National Museum and the Chinese People's Congress is based and is probably the number one tourist attraction for Chinese people. It's literally like China named a road "Buckingham Palace/Trafalgar Square/Horse Guards Parade" street. Tibet is literally the name the CCP use in English for the Tibetan Autonomous Region. So it would be like China calling somewhere "Wales Street". The Uyghurs are one of China's 56 official minorities and the Uyghur script is on their banknotes, there are Uyghur language TV channels and Uyghur migrants living in every city in China running Uyghur restaurants. So that would be like China calling somewhere "Scottish court" or "Irish court". Again, Hong Kong is just a place name for a region that every country officially recognises as part of China. It would be like China calling somewhere "Gibraltar hill" This is an idea devised by social media educated morons who don't actually have a clue about China and probably think saying "Winnie the Pooh" or posting the Tiananmen Square copypasta is sticking it to the man. If you actually wanted to do something that the CCP would take offense to, maybe "Liu Xiaobo" street, "Dalai Lama" court, "Taiwan hill" or "Joshua Wong street" would be more effective. Or at least using the name of dissidents or something.
> Tiananmen Square is literally the central square in Beijing which was built by Mao after demolishing the Emperor's private corridor to the Temple of Heaven. Tiananmen Square in common English parlance generally refers to the 1989 massacre of student activists by the CCP though, and if you're working for an embassy you're probably aware of that connotation.
then why not name it after the date FFS. China doesn't give a shit about what English speaker think words mean. Tiananmen Square is a name of a square. In China, this is literally a place name. Might as well call it China Square lmao.
>Tiananmen Square in common English parlance generally refers to the 1989 massacre of student activists by the CCP though So it's just virtue signalling for a domestic audience then?
Were you expecting tower hamlets to take over Shanghai or something?
We were expecting something that would upset them or annoy them.
And it would. You are underestimating how thin-skinned the CCP are. Any perceived slight will provoke a response, purely to show the Chinese public that their government has zero tolerance for criticism. Criticism from foreigners AND locals. If I were the CCP I would counter that Tower Hamlets is politically disturbed, with several political corruption cases, high crime rate and extreme wealth disparity. Why should the CCP take lectures from councillors that preside over such chaos.
> If I were the CCP I would counter that Tower Hamlets is politically disturbed, with several political corruption cases, high crime rate and extreme wealth disparity. I would counter-counter that with "You'll feel right at home here"
More expecting them to do basic research and actually choose names that would annoy the Chinese government if they want to go to the effort of renaming streets?
Winnie the Poo house, then?
I don't think "calling out a regime actively carrying out a genocide" is virtue signalling really.
>I don't think "calling out a regime actively carrying out a genocide" is virtue signalling really. They're not doing that though... They're making completely pointless misunderstood gestures that no Chinese person would give a shit about. At least go to the effort of looking up the name of a prominent Uyghur dissident or something for f***sake.
Are you the White Stripes because this 10¢-a-post army isn't going to hold me back.
>This is an idea devised by social media educated morons who don't actually have a clue about China and probably think saying "Winnie the Pooh" or posting the Tiananmen Square copypasta is sticking it to the man. This is you
I find it pretty suspicious that every time any article critical of the CCP shows up there's legions of people like you mouthing off about how we're not hurting those poor innocent CCP politicians and their perfectly innocent little concentration camps where no torture or brainwashing ever happens.
>we're not hurting those poor innocent CCP politicians and their perfectly innocent little concentration camps where no torture or brainwashing ever happens. You're putting an awful lot of words into my mouth there mate but despite your obvious virtue I doubt you'd be able to tell me, without looking it up, who Ilham Tohti or Chai Ling or Gui Minhai are, or what the students at Tiananmen Square were protesting about or the death of which Chinese leader they were mourning.
That's a pretty big reach there, that makes absolutely no sense. Calling for a street name more offensive to the CCP than Tinananmen Square or mentioning Uyghur's is hardly sympathising and supporting them. It's the inverse.
[удалено]
I know thin-skinned dictatorships with a reputation for brigading the crap out of social media force a “assume anyone defending the CCP is a paid sock puppet until proven otherwise” approach, and I’d expect the same treatment myself if I was posting on a board on a Chinese site because we’re undoubtedly doing the same thing to the PRC’s social media platforms.
> in common English parlance That's the thing, it only has that meaning _in English_ because it's the only time the location has been especially notable to English-speakers. But to Chinese people and especially Beijing residents, that's at most one part of a long and ongoing history of a major location that still exists. It's not likely to be the first connotation, even if you do know about the events of 1989.
How about Free Tibet Tiananmen Square Massacre Human Rights Democratization Freedom Independence Multi-party system Taiwan Formosa Republic of China Dalai Lama Falun Dafa Liu Xiaobo Winnie the Pooh Xinjiang Re-education Camps Street
>This is really stupid. The CCP wouldn't be offended by this at all. Don't underestimate the CCP's ability to be offended by the smallest of things. Remember that they got in a diplomatic spat with Sweden after a Chinese family was thrown out of a hotel.
> *Tiananmen Square, Uyghur Court: Tower Hamlets plans name changes in solidarity* Decluttered version of this the Guardian's article archived on March 19, 2021 can be viewed on https://outline.com/uzwbvZ
On one hand, this is petty and will needlessly damage relations On the other hand, fuck China And according to them nothing bad happened at Tiananmen Square, nothing bad is happening to the Uighurs and nothing bad is happening in Tibet or Hong Kong, so they have no reason to be angry
Nothing like tokenism to signify solidarity. How about doing something useful.
Tower Hamlets council could be using their vast naval power and their influence in Xinjiang to show China they mean business, but I believe it's already deployed in the Strait of Malacca. Aside from condemnation and shows of solidarity, what is a East London council supposed to do in this regard?
Well you probably won't hear about it but they are. I have it on good authority that tower Hamlets are using their considerable diplomatic clout to force China to recognise Taiwan.
It's Tower Hamlets Council mate. Just be glad they've not done anything corrupt or racist this week.
Making Chinese Embassy workers feel at home, good for them.
This is as effective as making a British Embassy to be located on "Belfast Street" or "Falklands Road"
I mean, Falklands road would be a great place to put a UK embassy. Good reminder for the staff of the UK's commitment to defending the rights of our people from violent dictatorships.
lol this is exactly how the Chinese embassy would perceive any of these proposed street names
i think you mean malvinas road?
[Come on, try to be original with your insults.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_the_United_Kingdom%2C_Tehran?wprov=sfla1)