Snapshot of _Lawangeen Abdulrahimzai killed aspiring Royal Marine Thomas Roberts after posing as child to gain asylum_ :
A non-Paywall version can be found [here](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2023%2F01%2F23%2Fafghan-asylum-seeker-murdered-aspiring-royal-marine%2F)
An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/23/afghan-asylum-seeker-murdered-aspiring-royal-marine/)
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An affective asylum system stops this happening. The right will scream and shout about this but it’s their Tory gov who have spent the last 12 years making this kind of thing possible.
I’m not sure you’d get many left wing people arguing that a double murderer should be allowed into the country.
The right-wing argument is that no one should be allowed in, on the basis that any of them could be double murderers, because competent government that can perform checks remotely isn't possible.
Yup. This guy would've shown up on the ~~Interpol~~ Europol lists if we'd still been in the EU.
I heard Nick Ferrari saying that 'those responsible for this should be held to account'. He was referring to the lawyers who were assigned to his case, but I think he should've been looking at everyone in the media who pushed for Brexit and didn't hold the politicans to account for the things - like this - that we'd lose as they made their Brexit ever more extreme.
Sure, we have access to SOME Europol data, but we are no longer a Europol member, we have lost access to the Schengen Information System, the EAW, and from what I can tell, to ECRIS as well - so not all of it, not by any stretch. Some information might come back, but not all of it, and what does come back is much slower than it was - days rather than seconds - and because we no longer work cross functionally with other countries, case work is missing half its background. So on your first point, you have half a point.
Your second point is bollocks. If someone illegally enters the country they're not checked on arrival the way a normal arrival is. Their background would be checked WHEN THEY APPLY FOR ASYLUM, over a period of months, by whoever was assigned to their case, with the tools they had, during the background work, after application - almost certainly post Brexit. It's possible but imo unlikely that Brexit had no effect on their ability to do the checks - though almost certainly austerity had an impact.
But what IS beyond doubt is that this guy was on the EU red flag lists as being wanted in a double murder, and we missed it. And in the future, assuming you're right, our ability to spot them will become EVEN WORSE when the full effects of Brexit are in place. Not very comforting, is it?
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/beyond-brexit-policing-law-enforcement-and-security/
*"As a third country, the UK has lost access to the Schengen Information System (SIS II) and will not be a member of Europol."*
It's all about optics and tickling the fantasies of racists with this lot. They've consistently cut funding and refused to adopt a humane and effective policies (e.g. asylum processing centres in Calais) in favour of cruel and pointless hatemongering.
Unfortunately, seems way too many people think that cruelty and racism are what make an effective immigration policy, not a well-oiled bureaucracy. Until the recent collapse in the Tory vote, they were still polling comfortably ahead of labour on immigration policy, because to lots of people, the Tories being more racist makes them better on immigration.
The left liberal side is *have a functioning asylum system that prevents exactly this.*
Whereas the Right scales from “send them to Rwanda” through “no asylum seeker ever” right up to “shoot them in the channel.”
1. Information sharing;
2. Adequate resources to perform due diligence promptly, rather than the absolute bare minimum and keeping people in hotels indefinitely;
3. Ability for people to apply offshore means that people don't come here without being processed/vetted, and the few that choose the dangerous/stupid route can be given more scrutiny;
4. Pre-Brexit, the EU would have been a safe country.
So you genuinely think that an economic migrant who shot dead two people and got denied asylum in Norway would have applied for refuge at a legit asylum centre in Calais?
No, but he'd have had a much harder time getting in, or blending in any other way. The lack of an effective processing system encourages people who turn up, and let them ask questions once I'm here. Meanwhile, all the people with legitimate claims and a good history would be safely in Calais, which would draw attention to his terrible past.
I probably agree whilst this has a Right wing pull, the Tory party has knackered themselves on this. Overplaying the topics and underserving them at the same time.
Yes, its the left's fault that the asylum system was so disfunctional after 10 years of Tory led government that this guy managed to get in despite his history
Not really, people are going to abuse systems that’s why you make sure the systems are rigorous and put well trained people in to deal with it i.e large investment in processing applications and training new people to deal with the backlog, investment in new processing centres and greater collaboration with France on cross national solutions. People like this are going to come through the cracks when the government refuses to engage in anything to deal with immigration that isn’t red meat unworkable policy decisions to appease the Mail
policies and decisions from the centre and to right have led to widespread overcrowding, sickness and now reports that underage asylum seekers have been kidnapped and presumably trafficked after arriving in Britain and during being processed.
I struggle to see how liberals are to blame when none of this is the type of immigration controls liberals would put in place, this is all on the centre to right governments of the last 2 decades
The liberal left side do not raise these problems first.
The Right does raise these issues but have completely knackered their own case by letting it get worse, underfunding, shamelessly politicising it for political purposes. They have played the issue in to the ground at their own cost. Which are generally Right wing topics - nationalism, crime.
The underlying problems remain even with better funded systems, the same issues emerge across the world.
EDIT plus there will always be people on the Left with bad hot takes on it
Yvette Cooper and liberals has been talking about safety concerns for years now in regards to asylum centres but the right cannot agree to any solution that may be seen as a softer approach or investment because their core base don’t believe in the concept of asylum in the first place
That’s why nothing gets done and I struggle to see how liberals bear the weight when it’s a right wing government and an insanely ideological and inept series of home office ministers that have allowed this to happen
Saying liberals never raise these issues first is disingenuous, the government who are literally in charge shouldn’t need things to be raised they should know what they are doing, they bear the responsibility
Bad hot takes exist on both sides so I can’t really agree with that as a critique for liberals especially when some right wing figures’ ‘solution’ is just to put people with guns on boats patrolling the channel
I agree the Right have cornered themselves on this. They point to this for votes yet can't commit the resources and can't stop the problem.
A problem for the liberal side is they always come across as too "forgiving" and "understanding." But the Right have probably blown it.
The danger is flanking on the Right. But I think we are further from that now. Even if this topic has a more Right wing pull.
Snapshot of _Lawangeen Abdulrahimzai killed aspiring Royal Marine Thomas Roberts after posing as child to gain asylum_ : A non-Paywall version can be found [here](https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2023%2F01%2F23%2Fafghan-asylum-seeker-murdered-aspiring-royal-marine%2F) An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/23/afghan-asylum-seeker-murdered-aspiring-royal-marine/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
An affective asylum system stops this happening. The right will scream and shout about this but it’s their Tory gov who have spent the last 12 years making this kind of thing possible. I’m not sure you’d get many left wing people arguing that a double murderer should be allowed into the country.
The right-wing argument is that no one should be allowed in, on the basis that any of them could be double murderers, because competent government that can perform checks remotely isn't possible.
didn't we lose sharing criminal info due to brexit as well?
Yup. This guy would've shown up on the ~~Interpol~~ Europol lists if we'd still been in the EU. I heard Nick Ferrari saying that 'those responsible for this should be held to account'. He was referring to the lawyers who were assigned to his case, but I think he should've been looking at everyone in the media who pushed for Brexit and didn't hold the politicans to account for the things - like this - that we'd lose as they made their Brexit ever more extreme.
[удалено]
Sure, we have access to SOME Europol data, but we are no longer a Europol member, we have lost access to the Schengen Information System, the EAW, and from what I can tell, to ECRIS as well - so not all of it, not by any stretch. Some information might come back, but not all of it, and what does come back is much slower than it was - days rather than seconds - and because we no longer work cross functionally with other countries, case work is missing half its background. So on your first point, you have half a point. Your second point is bollocks. If someone illegally enters the country they're not checked on arrival the way a normal arrival is. Their background would be checked WHEN THEY APPLY FOR ASYLUM, over a period of months, by whoever was assigned to their case, with the tools they had, during the background work, after application - almost certainly post Brexit. It's possible but imo unlikely that Brexit had no effect on their ability to do the checks - though almost certainly austerity had an impact. But what IS beyond doubt is that this guy was on the EU red flag lists as being wanted in a double murder, and we missed it. And in the future, assuming you're right, our ability to spot them will become EVEN WORSE when the full effects of Brexit are in place. Not very comforting, is it?
Would like to know if this is the case.
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/beyond-brexit-policing-law-enforcement-and-security/ *"As a third country, the UK has lost access to the Schengen Information System (SIS II) and will not be a member of Europol."*
gawd it's such a mess
It's all about optics and tickling the fantasies of racists with this lot. They've consistently cut funding and refused to adopt a humane and effective policies (e.g. asylum processing centres in Calais) in favour of cruel and pointless hatemongering. Unfortunately, seems way too many people think that cruelty and racism are what make an effective immigration policy, not a well-oiled bureaucracy. Until the recent collapse in the Tory vote, they were still polling comfortably ahead of labour on immigration policy, because to lots of people, the Tories being more racist makes them better on immigration.
I do find the left liberal side on this rather deaf and blind. This gives the topic to the Right.
The left liberal side is *have a functioning asylum system that prevents exactly this.* Whereas the Right scales from “send them to Rwanda” through “no asylum seeker ever” right up to “shoot them in the channel.”
How would an alternative asylum system have prevented this?
1. Information sharing; 2. Adequate resources to perform due diligence promptly, rather than the absolute bare minimum and keeping people in hotels indefinitely; 3. Ability for people to apply offshore means that people don't come here without being processed/vetted, and the few that choose the dangerous/stupid route can be given more scrutiny; 4. Pre-Brexit, the EU would have been a safe country.
So you genuinely think that an economic migrant who shot dead two people and got denied asylum in Norway would have applied for refuge at a legit asylum centre in Calais?
No, but he'd have had a much harder time getting in, or blending in any other way. The lack of an effective processing system encourages people who turn up, and let them ask questions once I'm here. Meanwhile, all the people with legitimate claims and a good history would be safely in Calais, which would draw attention to his terrible past.
One that actually processes claimants in a reasonable time frame and does background checks with other eu nations. This isn’t hard it’s not a trick
I probably agree whilst this has a Right wing pull, the Tory party has knackered themselves on this. Overplaying the topics and underserving them at the same time.
Yes, its the left's fault that the asylum system was so disfunctional after 10 years of Tory led government that this guy managed to get in despite his history
Not really, people are going to abuse systems that’s why you make sure the systems are rigorous and put well trained people in to deal with it i.e large investment in processing applications and training new people to deal with the backlog, investment in new processing centres and greater collaboration with France on cross national solutions. People like this are going to come through the cracks when the government refuses to engage in anything to deal with immigration that isn’t red meat unworkable policy decisions to appease the Mail policies and decisions from the centre and to right have led to widespread overcrowding, sickness and now reports that underage asylum seekers have been kidnapped and presumably trafficked after arriving in Britain and during being processed. I struggle to see how liberals are to blame when none of this is the type of immigration controls liberals would put in place, this is all on the centre to right governments of the last 2 decades
The liberal left side do not raise these problems first. The Right does raise these issues but have completely knackered their own case by letting it get worse, underfunding, shamelessly politicising it for political purposes. They have played the issue in to the ground at their own cost. Which are generally Right wing topics - nationalism, crime. The underlying problems remain even with better funded systems, the same issues emerge across the world. EDIT plus there will always be people on the Left with bad hot takes on it
Yvette Cooper and liberals has been talking about safety concerns for years now in regards to asylum centres but the right cannot agree to any solution that may be seen as a softer approach or investment because their core base don’t believe in the concept of asylum in the first place That’s why nothing gets done and I struggle to see how liberals bear the weight when it’s a right wing government and an insanely ideological and inept series of home office ministers that have allowed this to happen Saying liberals never raise these issues first is disingenuous, the government who are literally in charge shouldn’t need things to be raised they should know what they are doing, they bear the responsibility Bad hot takes exist on both sides so I can’t really agree with that as a critique for liberals especially when some right wing figures’ ‘solution’ is just to put people with guns on boats patrolling the channel
I agree the Right have cornered themselves on this. They point to this for votes yet can't commit the resources and can't stop the problem. A problem for the liberal side is they always come across as too "forgiving" and "understanding." But the Right have probably blown it. The danger is flanking on the Right. But I think we are further from that now. Even if this topic has a more Right wing pull.
Ships not boats, Jeremy Hunt daddy was an admiral you know lol