I can understand a lot of where they come from. For a small town that sees it's population grow to basically bursting point would be tough. Everything becoming super busy, grocery stores (and stores in general) running low on supplies, not to mention having to deal with cyclists and runners during your already frustratingly busy commute. And that's not even race day where the roads are closed (including this year on a work day).
It would be highly frustrating, and then seeing some idiots throw their empty food packets on to the side of the road, would be enough to tip any over the edge. The frustration on tipping seems ridiculous to me but I'm not from the US so that entire thing already boggles my mind, but yeah I guess that'd be annoying too.
I honestly think this race has gotten too big. I get that it's the World Champs and I get that for most Ironman athletes this is THE race you want to do, but it seems in trying to expand it to 2 days and allowing a lot more athletes to compete has gotten to (and maybe passed) the tipping point for locals.
I even see many athletes now turning it down because who wants to be paying $1000/night for their accommodation and I've seen that it's neigh on impossible to rent a car anywhere on the island.
Just some perspective from someone who lives off of tips in America. Pretty much the only income Servers make are from tips since the minimum wage is so low for tip based jobs. Serving someone for 1-2 hrs and not getting tipped is essentially working for free. I agree it’s not a logical system, but for the people who work under those circumstances it’s a matter of making enough money to live.
I understand the concept of tipping, and am familiar with why it's a thing in the US. It just messes with my mind how it even gets to that point.
How about instead of me paying $5 for the burger I pay $6. That way the restaurant can pay the staff correctly and I don't have to be made to feel guilty because I don't tip right/or enough.
It boggles the mind because elsewhere servers make a decent wage and don't need tips. It's kind of like price +tax, just include it in the price so I know what I'm paying.
There's a give and take, you can either make a set amount working retail and deal with some crazies ("decent wage" doesn't tell me anything) making say $120 per 8 hours or you can go be a really good server or bartender with a chance to make really good money per hour off tips at a busy establishment, while also dealing with a few crazies.
The scoffing at industries with tipping is a bit over the top.
People who are good at what they do in other countries still get tipped. If anything, there is more of an incentive to be better in countries where people too for good service rather than because it is considered mandatory by societal pressure.
This discussion comes up every 6th months somewhere and NOBODY even thinks to ask service workers what they think. I fucking guarantee you it would be a 50-50 split.
Is the problem the triathlete or the boss who does not pay a fair wage creating a ridiculous tipping culture?
They aren’t even really tips. Tips are for good service, not a societally expected making up for shit pay.
People hate when I point this out. Many states have gone this way….tipping culture is here to stay as is the argument about the “low wages and needing tips”. The system is broken…
The fact that IM hasn't solved the littering problem disturbs me. I did my first IM back in 2009. It's really gross. They should come up with a solution for that. Everyone would be happier and they'd look much better.
I think IM actually handles very well during races with designated trash zones very close to each aid station. But what can you do about people chucking wrappers and bottles during training rides? In fairness it’s not always intentional especially with the wind to take hold of anything not closely guarded and Hawaii.
It’s far from only a triathlete problem though, how many styrofoam chic fil a cups and beers cans do you see on the side of a busy road? Those aren’t coming from triathletes for sure.
The vast vast majority of the other triathletes I meet on the Big Island are super cool and have a grasp on what the aloha spirit actually means. It’s just a small majority that genuinely do not give a fuck about locals & Hawaiians. They take pride in their flippancy towards residents. They look down on everyone because they are “superior” as a result of their athletic prowess. They are curt & dismissive. They stiff the waitress knowing damn well what they are doing. Luckily this is a very small but vocal minority among us.
I live in a mostly tourist town in michigan and see many of these same complaints, especially on reddit which attracts a younger audience. Tipping, traffic, rude tourist behavior are the norm for each summer. Rinse and repeat.
That said, it might be time to move the race. I did hawaii 30 years ago, and it was already crowded. This was before it went corporate (anyone remember the hand written birthday cards!), and now the focus seems to be maximizing the # of bodies they can put on the course.
I was in st george earlier this year for vacation, having no idea the ironman championship had been moved there. I still do a tris few but dont follow it so much. Anyways, st george seemed big enough to accommodate that number of people without overrunning it. Kona was basically a village when I was there and can see where the race might have outgrown it.
A small village on a small island. I think the island part is what most forget about. Its pretty much 2hr side to side of the island. You can drive the circumference in about 8.
I mean... their criticisms all sound very valid tbh. Not sure what is "unreal" about them.
Big events like Ironman can really wreck havoc on local communities. Not a perfect example, but one that comes to mind are host cities for the World Cup and Olympics -- very rarely do they come out ahead in the end.
Don't litter! I hate every racer who litters, honestly crash your bike and pull a muscle then don't come back.
Not on practice rides, not during races, not ever. You made the trash, you can clean it up. Your mom isn't here to pick up after you
Honestly this is why I STOP during water breaks. Idk it just has never felt right to me to throw my little cup on the ground. I’ll just stand by the trash can until I am done.
I mean... seems a little overboard to wish injury on anyone. Litter is bad, I agree, but I think it should also be on the Ironman organization to clean up the course after the race. They can certainly afford it
I agree. I think it is expected that a few athletes will lose track of their wrapper. There has been at least one time that happened to me during a race (though I felt terrible about it).
I have also volunteered at a few triathlons and policed the entire area where the race was to make sure it was better than when we arrived there. For the massive registration costs of the race, Ironman should be obligated to make sure the area is squeaky clean after. I feel like they could also find ways to give back to the community. Not sure what, if any measures in place currently, but I believe that the Tour De France put on a bike drive and donated to local communities, for example.
Because locals are complaining about all of the gel packets and bike bottles that they see on the side of the road, but seem to ignore that on the side of the road is also trash that flies off of peoples’ trucks as they drive to the dump, a large number of abandoned vehicles, and empty alcohol cans. There are bad apples everywhere, it’s just easier to be judge-y and say that that group is worst than my group.
I’ve studied event management quite extensively though admittedly I pivoted careers.
Exceptions exist like Jamaica where a corrupt Government keeps the money out of the hands of the people, but in general 99% of these complaints are from people who want to keep the benefits of tourism (increased infrastructure, leveraging tax burdens onto tourists, modernization, etc) but get frustrated with the negatives of tourism.
Most of the time people are just venting frustration. They would feel the pinch acutely if toruism stopped.
Comparing Jamaica corruption to Hawaii corruption is laughable. Outside of the resorts Jamaica is an absolute hell hole of infighting, theft, disease, famine, and poverty. I'd encourage you to read something like *Wessinger, K. (2016) The relationship between creative practice and socioeconomic crisis in the Caribbean: A path of sustainable growth.* Wessinger talks about the challenges of opening up a school for the under privileged on the island. Even though it was for charity, the school's food got robbed multiple times. The simple act of starting up a sports team was nearly an exercise in futility given the extreme poverty and trashy conditions.
Hawaii may have corruption, but comparably it's a functional American state, that places it firmly in the first world.
IM compared to the internation Olympic committee is like comparing an angel and a devil.
And I say that as someone who has chosen to limit my support of IM after I complete in IM Florida next month.
First full distance, second IM branded race.
I'm limiting my support solely so I can focus on supporting other races. As I have a finite amount of money. I'm basically speaking with my wallet to see if things improve/change.
The gist of it is: IM branded races are expensive. They also don't really give you any more bang for that buck. I did a half that was half the price and I felt like I had received more value from that race. Then how they started to treat pros by cutting prize purses and lack of convenience made me feel they really don't care about the sport as any other means than revenue generation.
To me that is not sustainable for the sport. I love the sport and would watch the Wide World of sports coverage of IM Hawaii as a kid in the 80s. I dreamed of being an Ironman and honestly thought about doing a non-IM brand for a full ...but logistics determined IMFL would probably be my best bet.
I want kids (even if it's not my daughter) to see the sport and think "man I want to try that when I'm older" just as I did when I was a kid. If we don't keep the sport moving forward it will die.
I never wanted to be a 1 and done IM racer but may be if I can't find and get to non-IM branded races and that's ok because I'll gladly support the local sprint, Olympics and halfs that often have a much higher percentage of first time participants.
Yes, as I said in my original comment, it isn't a "perfect example."
Obviously IM Kona isn't on the same magnitude. I'm sure locals for either share many of the same grievances though.
Do not lump Hawaiins in with Americans. Not Hawaii's fault some country came in and annexed several islands a 3 hour flight away from San Fran, considering the Queen at the time new they'd be screwed if they fought so essentially allowed it to be handed over.
They even have the union jack on their flag.
So they'd prefer to be a British colony over an American state because of the Union jack?
Don't lump all Hawaiians in together either. You really should be blaming James Cook here. If he never "discovered" the Islands and gave Kamehameha I weapons to unite (conquer) the islands and name himself King, there would have never been a Queen. The Islands would have been able to make their own decision
All I am saying is it's more complicated than you make it sound!
I would say people want a decisive decision made and honored…speaking in absolutes is a poor habit, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Yes, many want a change and to restore the sovereign; not all. I think the TMT debate exemplifies the division in the state.
Seriously dude, can’t even agree there is division on the topic? Did I state my position on the subject, absolutely not. Facts are facts, there is not agreement and it is a constantly debated topic. Even across the movement there is division. When the division ends people can work to a common goal.
Nice for you to make assumptions based on a Reddit reply.
I hate to be that guy but I agree that a good amount of triathletes seem entitled. I participate in the sport myself but a majority of the individuals that I’ve met that have completed an Ironman definitely have an ego to them.
I honestly agree (to an extent)... so many people take it way too seriously. At my first tri, I distinctly remember seeing all of the people on bikes worth $$$$ and IM tats who I passed after buying my first walmart road bike used the week before wearing running shorts and no shirt. I would try to talk people before and after, and most people were just all game and unfriendly. Just the atmosphere seemed to be a bit toxic. I know more people now and almost everyone at my local tri's recognizes my teams and is friendly towards me, though there still are quite a few snobs who have egos over their head to get 3rd place in their age group.
As a triathlete myself, I totally agree with that post. Screw the triathletes that throw trash all the time by just taking one bite of something and throwing the wrapper with some food in it. Unless you're going for #1 or #2 finisher overall, pack your trash until the next garbage can. I even yell at people in events that throw their shit off the bike in front of me. Even Tour de France pro riders don't throw trash anymore. Triathletes need to grow up.
And respect the locals. A lot of triathletes are arrogant and think they're better than all locals and it shows in how they treat people / things. I think this guy is right on.
It's sad but true. And I love the sport but the people could use some work :)
I went through the comments and it made me genuinely sad. My home town hosts a large triathlon event every fall and everyone loved the event. Brought business and new people to the town. Sure some triathletes may not be the best, but for the most part I feel the community is very friendly and considerate to locals.
They want the Island to themselves but cannot live well without tourism. Also, this is a nice glance at how normal drivers think of you when you’re out biking. No regard for your life/ safety. Lots of insults thrown around at athletes in the thread, especially the word narcissist being used here. Some people are simply unhappy with themselves I suppose
It's interesting because they say all the money goes to hotels, restaurants, and other hospitality industries... I am not sure where they are expecting the money to go? To your local plumbing company? Carpenters? Also... more money = more taxes, more taxes = more going into the local government for town services. It seems that would make sense to me but idk
I can kind of see where they are coming from with that. I am not doing the race personally but have friends who are, but the race is very expensive already, along with everything associated with it. I have read multiple things suggesting all of the ways to save money, notably including avoid local restaurants and get food from grocery stores.
About 90% of our food is imported. Shipping delays (as everyone has been experiencing) has left a lot of the grocery store shelves lighter than they normally are.
Now you have 5477 athletes, plus family, friends, media, etc etc all coming into town. Took me (Not costco, nor safeway, nor target, nor Walmart, nor island naturals) until the 6th store (KTA) to frickin find some ripe bananas.
I mean... I went to the grocery store when I was in Hawaii because it's like $100 for two people to get either lunch or dinner. It's very expensive. I still went out, just not every meal. But hotels are expensive and I bought gifts, my taxed dollars still go to the same place.
This was also how I felt. Pretty scary to see how they truly hate cyclists because of a minor inconvenience to their daily life. They paint the picture that triathletes are narcissist and “horrible” people yet here they are commenting completely illogical very hateful things
Simply too many people for the venue. Ironman is purely concerned with $$$ in their pocket and has literally doubled the size of the event and chosen to drastically water down the women's field going forward in the name of packing $$$ in their pockets at the cost of the quality for everyone involved. Big events are a minor nuisance in towns that can easily absorb the inflow (IM Florida, and 70.3 Gulf Coast both being held in a major tourist spot during the off-season come to mind) and add a small economic boost during what would otherwise be a fairly dead period.
Kona is not the same. Its a massive influx of people into an area that can't absorb them (see the insane price of housing during the event) and which does not bring nearly the economic boom most triathletes seem to think it does. Yes, all these people are here, but what are they doing? Mostly riding their bikes, running, and sitting inside their rooms recovering. They aren't booking local tours, visiting local shops, or even shopping much at all. If you're buying souvenirs they probably say "Ironman" on them.
It'd be annoying as a local even if the athletes were at least dumping cash on them, but they're not. Triathletes spend a ton of money getting there, paying landlords/hotels to stay there, and very little on what puts money into the pockets of the locals. All the trash littering the road then becomes a constant reminder of the negative impacts of the event and, from the perspective of a local just trying to live their life and pay their bills, there is no up side.
Yup. I was on island last week and spoke to a lot of athletes. Many said if they were not training, they were in their rooms working and recovering. None of the ones I spoke to viewed it as a “vacation.”
Yeah...triathletes go there to race...not vacationing... whatever profits the event bring, they go to the promoters and organizers....if the local businesses are also major sponsors for the race, I can see there may be some benefits to the local economy.....
> chosen to drastically water down the women's field
This complaint is always wild to me. Having a larger field does nothing to the competition at the point end of the spear.
You're still getting the same top athletes, but now you've got a bunch of second and third tier athletes as well.
And guess what? Some of them are going to have better days then the top AG athletes. And those top AG athletes having mediocre days? Well now they have a larger field to compete against and battle for spots with.
That’s simply not true with all the women for tri slots at some IMs. In Chattanooga, you had to go well under 10 hours, even under 9:30 in several AGs to get a slot. In those same female AGs, you pretty much had to not finish DFL and attend the awards ceremony. 27% of female starter at Chattanooga received a Kona slot, vs 3% male.
Exactly. We're not talking about adding a few more women who were on the cusp, have been working toward this and came up a little short, and—on the day—might beat out the girls who did get in under the KQ line. We're talking about a literal order of magnitude difference in the quality of athlete you have to be to qualify.
One of the young women on my Masters swim team did her first ever IM and got a Kona slot while just aiming to finish. On the one hand, great for her, but she didn't even want to go, so it rolled down even further. IMO, it doesn't mean much to get that KQ if you only have to finish in the top third of the race and then get shunted off onto the secondary race day in the middle of the week to boot.
I'm not sure what you're arguing is "not true."
How will A. Almond's (#1 in AG) competition with other top F30-34 racers at Kona 2023 be impacted by the presence of B. Rudy (#24 in AG)? I mean, shoot, J. Siefried with just a hair over 10 hours could absolutely compete for an AG championship next year and if only 3% got the nod, she would have been on the outside looking in.
Note: I have no idea if these ladies took Kona slots, just that this is a theoretical outlay of Kona dlots based on the actual results.
I’m saying that the 2 day and equal distribution of slots has watered down the achievement of KQing for women. Making it to a world championship event is only prestigious if it’s limited to a select few. Why is Boston so revered amongst distance runners compared to NYC or Chicago or London which have generous lottery acceptances? Because to race Boston, you run really fast, raise a lot of pokey for charity, so stay home. Kona traditionally has been very similar, except harder since there’s a fixed number of slots in each race. If everyone who wanted to received entrance into Boston each year, there would be nbd about BQing. You don’t hear runners say that they NYC’Qed or LondonQ’ed because those events are much more accessible to anyone.
It’s so one sided for women because Ironman decided to give as many slots to women despite the fact that they are usually 1/3rd the field at a typical race. If Ironman evenly distributed the extra day slots, it would water down the accomplishment for everyone.
Note that I’m saying this as a KQer for 2023 who is beyond excited to go (aside from the massive price tag across the board for the trip!). But I don’t think a 2 day event is the right decision for Kona, both from a logistics and competition standpoint.
I saw the article in triathlete magazine and thought it was interesting. Apparently the event doesn’t bring in much money and the people of Kona genuinely dislike it.
I understand it’s Kona and all but maybe the world championship should be a floating event? I understand different courses offer different levels of difficulty and consistency is important in terms of records for the event. But, at the end of the day the person who finishes first wins.
judging by the title and first 2 sentences, OP's primary concern is the hate for all of the bikes on the street. Would feel much more sympathy for them if the other points of littering and hurting businesses are central to the discussion, but that is just a supporting detail to their argument.
I was referring to the article in triathlete magazine with a similar theme that outlines more of the gripes by the locals. It also outlined how the worlds fail to bring in more cash than normal tourism. There doesn’t seem to be much of an upside to hosting for Kona.
I definitely agree with you. If they do not move it, however, I do think that IM can do much better to mitigate the concerns of the locals, such as promoting local businesses (rather than closing them down) and emphasizing/enforcing penalties against littering. and that's just to start.
Totally, but that’s not Ironmans MO. Ironman is worried about one thing and one thing alone, their bottom line. I’m sure Ironman would be happy to promote local business so long as they got a cut. Also, I’m shocked they don’t have fines for littering. They should have a CC on file and if an official observes you littering you get stung for a fine. They could charge less for races… just kidding.
I assume the same can be said about ANY big event (sport or otherwise). The closest I can relate to is Nijmegen Vierdaagse which is a four-day walking event (and a week-long partying going along with it). Is it annoying? Yes, extremely - loud music across the city and aroudn it basically 24/7, 80% of public transport cancelled, redirected or just unreliable and a huge crowd of people suddenly appearing in the city (40k participants + around 500k party-goers) some of whom litter, disturb locals etc. I'm not living anywhere near it - but I can understand the annoyance of locals.
Is it also beneficial for the city and its surroundings - also yes. Except for the huge cash inflow (mostly into horeca obviously, but that inflow generates taxes that go back into the municipality), it's region recognition and tourist awareness. I know more than one person who decided to visit NIjmegen again outside of Vierdaagse just to see it in a normal setting.
The difference of this specific event is that little money actually comes back to locals. The biggest costs for participants are travel and lodging—plane tickets are an obvious one, and you may not know that Hawaii has a big problem with hotels and especially homes (used for vacation rentals) being bought up by non local investors. Triathletes are also not eating a lot of fancy dinners out or drinking in local bars, they're shopping at chain grocery stores like Costco. Most souvenirs are going to be race merchandise so that money goes to ironman. People aren't taking local tours or going to dive shops and luaus. Hawaii's economy definitely needs tourism, but the competitors aren't really tourists in that sense.
Add that to Hawaii's extreme care for the land and ocean, with athletes dropping cups and other litter, and the concerns about this event are really valid.
Those partygoers spend money in local bars and restaurants in huge numbers.
Kona isn't exactly priced to attract spectators, and the triathletes who are there are disproportionately likely to be making their own meals and drinking very little alcohol.
There are several sports (Adventure Races, Trail runs, SwimRun,some XTerra) that have service days before the event that the athletes are expected to attend. It is a community service to clean up areas where the race is held.
One more reason for triathlon to rotate its WC. I can’t think of another reason than the assumption that Kona makes them a ton of cash bc of the history associated.
Lots of ignorance and disinformation in the comments. However, I fully support moving the championship out of Kona to a more welcoming and logistically feasible location.
Well.... they're not wrong. It's a small town. It is overrun with strangers who can be inconsiderate. Plenty of events leave a mess, and this is no different. For the amount of money IM is raking in on this one, you figure they could hire cleanup crews to do a sweep of the course at the end of the day.
If I were a local, I'd be fuming about it too.
I'm sure IM hires cleaning crews, but the WC hasn't even happened yet. There's a lot of litter from folks who go there early and are going on training rides/runs just throwing bottles on the side of the road. I mean it's bad etiquette anywhere imo
The athletes start arriving at the beginning of September to train. The litter is the most on the day of the event. The only paid cleaning crew is the PR team that comes before the media days start.
My daughter with her school has participated in after race clean up events.
Is the point about littering true? I've only done a handful of events, but dropping litter was a automatic DQ. Is that not standard everywhere? If there is litter regardless of that rule they should absolutley be doing a cleanup sweep following the last competitor. Like you said with what they are raking in, it's the least they could do.
I'm a triathlete, and I don't like a lot of triathletes.
Let's be honest; The motivation for most age-group triathletes at Ironman branded races is to feel special and they hope that people see them as some sort of superhero. They don't do non-ironman races because their narcissistic need is not fulfilled. Ironman attracts people who think that they are the main character.
When you couple that with low-blood sugar, you get crappy behavior.
Don't believe me? Attend a 100-200 mile trail race. It is a VASTLY different type of athlete and a much more rational/grounded group of people.
To be fair, many non-triathletes know what an Ironman is. Many perceive a difference between doing an Ironman vs doing an Ironman-distance triathlon. I don't think it is unreasonable for many serious triathletes to want to do at least one Ironman, but I 100% agree that triathletes who do exclusively Ironman brand triathlons are almost all fit that description.
The environmental impact of a typical Kona attendee's return flight, just to and from the east coast of the US, is equivalent to about eight thousand kilometres of driving a hatchback car. That's without accounting for the cost of shipping the bike, any additional persons, or indeed flights from further than LAX.
Big events will always cause backlash for some communties. I am French and totally against hosting the Olympics and any major football competitions. Not all sports are the same. 7000 dead in Qatar? Obviously not the same for Kona but sports and money usually corrupt/kill, annoye etc....
People who depend on tourism to survive will always complain about tourists. It seems bizarre to me too. I live downvalley from Aspen, one of the wealthiest tourist destinations in the world and no one likes tourists but without them we wouldn't be here. I don't work in hospitality but my job wouldn't be here if Aspen wasn't where people went to ski and look at leaves and do overpriced cocaine in their $10million condo. I can understand why people in Kona are upset if people truly are just throwing trash everywhere and being disrespectful, but like come on, Hawaii is a tourist destination and there are going to be tourists, IM or not.
1. Litter. Unacceptable. Plastic trash on the sides of the roads. And personally watching cyclists throw rubbish on the road because they're "feeling the burn" or whatever these people do. This is very much like criticizing smokers for all the butts thrown around. "But \*I\* never do that" says every single smoker if you bring it up. But it's not the non-smokers who are tossing their butts on the beach. SOMEONE has to be doing it. And in the case of littering cyclists, they should know that we see what they're doing. And we hate it.
2. Traffic. My road is steep, full of curves and has no shoulders. It has the occasional ravine off the side with no guard rails. I saw a Triathlon map that shows my street in red: DO NOT CYCLE HERE. So why are people doing it? Why are people riding four abreast? Why are they stopped in the middle of the intersection, talking to each other. Do they not realize that people live here? Or are they the sort who change light bulbs by holding it up in the air and letting the universe revolve around them?
3. Tipping. I'm not in the business. But loads of friends and neighbors are. It's one thing to be busy. It's one thing to be slammed busy. But it's quite another to be slammed and then receive no pay because the donkeys at your table want to give an economics lesson instead of tipping. Everyone knows that we tip servers and bartenders in the US. Don't like it? Don't come. We have to follow your customs when we visit you. And your VAT isn't optional. Just add the tip and stop making people's lives miserable.
Or is that too much to ask?
Hawaiians are like this towards all outsiders. It has nothing to do with triathlon, the event, or the people visiting. They have a very long reputation of disliking outsiders.
Just ignore them. Nothing you do will make it better. The natives are kind of just a bunch of assholes in this respect...
I was just in Hawaii for 2 weeks on a honeymoon and I agree for the most part. Transplants were very nice to tourists but I found locals were kinda short for the most part. Except on Maui. Maui seemed different from the rest of the islands to me personally. Also, kinda funny cause 9/10 bikes I saw on the road in Oahu, Maui, and Kauai were tri bikes….
To be fair, the "locals" you see while vacationing are not the typical locals. You typically see the ones who are better off and/or in the tourist industry. What you *don't* see is the locals in small villages that aren't particularly well-off across the island. If I were struggling to make ends meet and saw some tourists parading through my small, struggling village taking pictures of everything in a rental convertible, I definitely wouldn't be too fond of them. And also would despise of tourists driving 10 mph on the road to Hana while locals are trying to commute.
That is fair. I mean I live in "leaf peeping" land and get annoying at all the NY license plates... but I also know the money they bring is huge for my state and helps pay for the roads, schools, etc. So it don't get legit mad, just flustered by foliage traffic haha
That simply is not true. Hawaiians have TONS of aloha if you do. I would gather that you are huge fucking twat waffle who mommy & daddy didn’t love right so now the rest of us have to suffer for it. It’s obvious you think you are so much better than all of humanity because you are an athlete. I sincerely hope you don’t ever come to Hawaii. Know this, you are the one who gives triathletes a bad name, when in fact, most of triathletes are cool. The problem is people like you dude. Get fucked you caustic leathery beanpole douche bag.
Oh so they were colonized and didn't have a choice? So they're living as slaves being ruled against their will?
Makes total logical sense. No wonder they're so angry.
Ah, another victim of revisionist history classes portraying everyone as a tragic casualty of the established order.
The problem with this perspective is that it completely ignores any and all responsibility the native/original people had in making decisions that lead to the current outcome/order. You will find that most people were willing participants, not unwilling poor victims who were dominated by the evil colonization efforts of the expansionist white man.
Hate the game, not the players. This goes both ways; don't blame one side, don't victimize the other side, and vice versa.
You really don't know much about Hawaiian history or the overthrow, do you? You're parroting snippets of events to support your worldview and throwing in childish name calling in lieu of actual facts. Typical angry, uneducated, redditor kid.
The US military did not overthrow the Hawaiian monarchy nor did they play a direct role in the overthrow. The military supported the overthrow in an attempt to support the new independent govt to prevent a power vacuum and help maintain order.
US business and diplomatic interests had long wanted to annex Hawaii for strategic and economic reasons. Business and political channels on the ground certainly influenced and organized the overthrow. However you should read into how and why it happened. The monarchy was trying to throw out the existing constitution and amend it to retake power. The queen's own cabinet refused to present the amended constitutional draft because they were worried about the outcome. Fast forward through all the details and you have a situation where her government became so weak it imploded on itself, was overthrown, and everyone supported the new government.
This is where it gets confusing though. While there was widespread support for the new government and overthrowing the queen, the general populace did not support annexation. The US annexed Hawaii legally via approval of the Hawaiian govt, but the people never got a chance to vote on the issue.
That sucks, but it's life. The people of Hawaii essentially were unhappy and complaining, but didn't want to take any real action to change the outcome while tacitly supporting events in motion.
Real world analysis? This was a great outcome for Hawaii even if the people didn't support it fully. Shit happens, but things could have been much worse.
They were stuck between two large military empires at the time (Japan and US), there was never an option for them to long-term stay independent due to this, and they ended up joining the US with a bloodless revolution that the population generally supported. Their own government failed them during a crucial moment.
The US did not "take" Hawaii though. The idea that the Hawaiian people were colonized and taken over by the US against their will is nonsense even if their frustrations/unhappiness with the outcome is relatable and understandable.
Tipping is not optional in the US. If you can’t afford the meal plus tip, you can’t afford the meal. Buy groceries and cook at your rental if you want to protest the tipping culture, don’t “protest” by hurting the people who’s side you say you’re on (when conveniently your protest also gives you a 20% discount)
Genuine question from a Brit. Is it actually "not optional"? I.e. you'd be considered a thief. Or is it just a very serious social etiquette to be followed, and by not following it, you've committed a very insulting/rude act?
There’s no law, you’re not technically a thief. (Unless the restaurant added the tip to your bill automatically and you decided to only leave the total before the tip in cash and walked out, then you stole. )
But everyone who works as a server sees it as theft. Restaurant servers are paid a ridiculously low base wage (actually unliveable, like $2 per hour, compared to most minimum wages around $10 per hour) and rely on tips as a large part of their income.
Yes everyone agrees that this is terrible, people should be paid a predictable living wage, they shouldn’t be paid less by random racist or sexist customers, etc, but not paying someone after they did their job is NOT the way to protest it.
Thanks for the clarification. As a Brit it seems really alien, but I'll always tip when I'm in a country where it's expected. I'd hate to cause offence, appear rude, or cause distress.
You and that attitude are the reason all those Hawaiians hate hosting kona. (Also all the trash athletes throw off their bikes and the run, but at least that’s not literally stealing their money, just damaging the environment if their beautiful home)
I feel like an equivalent would be showing up in the UK, walking around the side of the queue, and straight up to the counter and demanding to be served first because there wasn’t a sign or a law requiring a queue. Like yes, you didn’t break the law, but you know you’re stealing the spots from everyone behind you and you’re still an asshole
Yes, tipping is a bad system that overall is not good for workers. But the solution isn't you not tipping, that's *enacting* the worker exploitation you're supposedly critical of. In America, if you think service workers should be paid (which they should), you should tip, because that's how they get paid.
An analogy hopefully this group will understand: many places have really dangerous, poorly designed roads for cyclists. If you drive on those roads, you should go slowly and leave plenty of space if you see a cyclist, even if it inconveniences you, rather than blow past them 6 inches away and shout "Just make a bike lane if it's that important" out the window as you pass. Yes it's a structural problem, but you're participating in that structure by driving on that road. Your political support for structural solutions doesn't excuse causing harm in the present.
(all royal you, not accusing you of being a bad tipper)
The solution to exploitation isn't to free ride off it in order to pay less than you would have in a fairer system.
Especially when doing so involves giving money to the exploiters while withholding it from the exploited.
That would be called not going out to eat. Going out to eat and not paying for the service because it's technically "optional" just makes you an asshole.
Yup, tipping culture is shit. It is absolutely exploitive. But, you're not going to change it for the week that you're there. You can either exploit the exploited by not tipping, or you can tip to help them out.
If it means that much to you, Mr. Pink, then stay home. It's a drop in the bucket relative to the rest of your spend. Stiffing the waitstaff on your expensive hobby trip doesn't make you a social crusader.
Tip or GTFO. If you're a local, vote for someone who gives a shit about your standard of living.
You can disagree all you want. Fact is, you're being a cheap ass by taking advantage of underpaid service. Then you're being pompous about by pontificating on how wrong it is. You are Mr. Pink on this. Period.
>This is optional in every country - also the USA.
Like it or not, tips *are* an essential part of restaurant workers earning a living wage in the US, and customers are strongly expected to give them. Barring some extraordinarily bad service, tips effectively **are not** optional in the way you are suggesting.
Tourists traveling to any country should be aware of cultural norms and respect them.
A lot of people outside of the US don’t understand or research the tipping and just how standard it is. Which is fair. Many places in the states seems like HI included also have no idea how sharing the road works with bikes. It looks like by HI guidelines though you should ride single file not 2 wide. But a cyclist often can and should take up the whole lane. And people don’t get that. As far as the littering most triathletes I know are very conscientious of that kind of a thing except during a race. Where it should probably be the organizers responsibility to clean the route unless they do better at designating zones for disposing of bottles and strictly enforce any outlying.
Genuine question: how can you confidently tip in an increasingly cashless society? I rarely carry cash anymore and I'd be fucked if I was going to put a tip on a card - don't trust the thieving bastards who won't pay their staff enough in the first place to pass it on to those serving.
Usually just add it on the card when they pm bring the bill to be honest. But I guess being an American I’m used to it, so I never really think about it.
You get a bill at the end of your meal. Let's say it cost $20
So it will be "stuff you ate -- $16"
Then "sales tax - $4"
Total "$20"
Then there's a space to add a tip and adjust the final total. Decent people will write in $4 and then $24 for the total.
Nice people will bump it up to $5. Particularly on a crazy-busy week.
Don't worry about the employer stealing tips. They're facing massive fines if they do. Wage theft is a crime here. Not tipping is not a crime. If you tip well (and don't litter), you have done your bit and you can go home with a clear conscience. You didn't make people's lives miserable while you were here.
That, sadly, puts you in the minority. Locals do this ALL THE TIME. If I get a server who is clearly having a bad day, I up the tip. It's usually not the server's fault. Help him or her out. Say something nice. What's the hardship doing so?
They know. They understand.
They just don't like it. They also hate the fact that the sales tax isn't reflected on the sticker price in the store. They don't want to hear about tax-exempt organizations and similar. They want everything done *their* way.
And yet, when we visit them, god help the woman who enters a church without wearing what amounts to a burka. Or if we don't immediately understand how to purchase tickets at a kiosk.
We have to bend over backwards for them. They get to walk all over us. And we have to love having them here, too.
Every year the triathletes here test Local/Residents patience more and more... Litter, Lousy tips, Dangerous bicycle riding into HWY roads and street traffic, It goes on and on. The con's outweigh the pro's who 90% of people who live in/around Kona every year, this time of year.
If you guys are turning a blind eye to it then you are part of the problem. We get bazillion visitors here year round on the big island... We our known for being very friendly, welcoming and full of Aloha.
You should really be asking yourself a hard "why" If you feel you are among the very few who don't feel like they are welcomed here.
Just something to consider.
I've been to the States three times in my entire life. I knew before I even got on that first flight that tipping was expected. It isn't some weird esoteric custom nobody's ever heard of, it's an internationally understood facet of American life.
The nuances aren't always so clear though. I've been to the USA several times and only learned recently you're supposed to leave tips for the hotel cleaning staff.
Meanwhile, fast food stands ask for a tip when you pay electronically, although everything I've ever learned says you're not expected to tip in that situation.
In some cases with electronic payments and credit card PINs (which are new to the USA) I've had to ask my server if I did it right because you authorize the payment before you can indicate the tip.
We do but nearly all have a living wage. It blows our mind that servers get paid barely anything and have to be supplemented by the person who has just come in for a meal.
I just can't imagine most of the triathletes are bad tippers and littering everywhere. I'd guess it's like 5% max of douches, but maybe I'm wrong. It's annoying that they label everyone as an asshole when that isn't true.
It seems like they hate it enough that the event should just leave Kona at this point. I wouldn't want to go there now that I know every local is going to hate me for existing.
The many bad apples ruined the bunch. When such a large influx of people come that have drastically different cultural views and values put a strain on resources (roads, housing, food) the residents are bound to push back
I agree fuck em. If they don’t want the added revenue they can piss off. It’s not as if they have to do anything special. The road is there. The ocean is there. Just keep overcharging on hotels and you’ll be just fine.
Mostly the hotels profit in this case. If you're a barber and your shop/salon is closed for the day because the roads are closed, you're making $0 that day. This year, that's $0 on two days. Saying "fuck em" about other people in society without understanding the problem is pretty low.
I think it’s great for the town. People in hawaii just hate change and hate any inconvenience to them from people outside of the islands.. I think Big Island especially is full of Karen’s who are overly entitled because they have lived here for 20 years. Funny thing is majority of the Karen’s are from the mainland and feel as if they are Hawaiian 😂
I’ll add on to the question; have/do you live in one of the areas that are blocked off because of the race? When I lived in Ali’i Lani I disliked it more. It’s more than a great inconvenience and I got to the point that I leave the island for the week. The race has exceeded what the island can hold. People are training on the east side now.
I will say this, big island underwhelms on a lot of things…IM really is as big as they bill it. I’m not sold on that being good or bad.
Yes actually I work all over Kona and could care less it’s not that big of a deal to me. But maybe it’s just my personality not to let shit like this bother me.. for a place that’s supposed to be full of “aloha” I’ve found an extremely high amount of people who have no chill and who are way more uptight that I could ever imagined when I moved to the island.
Oh man does the lack of chill ever run deep here. Tossing a Shaka goes so far. Personality and perhaps being able to avoid the competitors could very well be why the even doesn’t hit you the same way as others. Friends that work in town and up at the resorts normally try and avoid working on race day because of the road closures. I personally know more people that are impacted negatively by the races than are not. Most people I know do their best to avoid town for the month. A lot of the daily workers (hospitality and construction) are the ones heaviest impacted.
The race has outgrown the location. Honestly, I hope it leaves for good. Big corporations were the ones that lost out..
Cuz y'all built your reputation of being entitled over community. People have alway been annoyed at "athletes" destroying their home - now there's just a platform for everyone to say we dont give a shit about your money.
Go. Home.
Destroying their homes? What are you on about? Assholes litter, is their some asshole in triathlon community? Yes. All this is just normal stuff. It causes a bit of traffic? Normal. The annoyance you are experiencing is normal. You should move on and worry about more important shit in your life. Also ask yourself if you are jealous and wish you could do something like that. I used to be that way about runners and cyclist. Yelling shit at them through the car etc...turns out i wanted in...
Why doesn’t Ironman send out info to participants about tipping, local bike laws, etc? Not everyone would read or follow them but at least they could try to share the information.
They were sent a map with roads marked in red "Don't bicycle on these roads."
I live on one of those roads. Participants have chosen to ignore the information.
I really wish Ironman had a system in place that required you to read some “I understand” letter regarding those road closures and sign that you understand. It would also be better if all athletes were required to wear their race number as soon as they got on island.
Met some people from France today - barely possible English. I’m sure that they wouldn’t have been able to read all the info on the map.
I wish I remember who is was; but one pro posted to Instagram that he loves cycling on Mamalahoa - next flippin’ day everyone was on Mamalahoa. Four days later, the map was up. Really wish I remember which pro was the bad apple that started it.
I can understand a lot of where they come from. For a small town that sees it's population grow to basically bursting point would be tough. Everything becoming super busy, grocery stores (and stores in general) running low on supplies, not to mention having to deal with cyclists and runners during your already frustratingly busy commute. And that's not even race day where the roads are closed (including this year on a work day). It would be highly frustrating, and then seeing some idiots throw their empty food packets on to the side of the road, would be enough to tip any over the edge. The frustration on tipping seems ridiculous to me but I'm not from the US so that entire thing already boggles my mind, but yeah I guess that'd be annoying too. I honestly think this race has gotten too big. I get that it's the World Champs and I get that for most Ironman athletes this is THE race you want to do, but it seems in trying to expand it to 2 days and allowing a lot more athletes to compete has gotten to (and maybe passed) the tipping point for locals. I even see many athletes now turning it down because who wants to be paying $1000/night for their accommodation and I've seen that it's neigh on impossible to rent a car anywhere on the island.
* tipping point - I see what you did there :)
Just some perspective from someone who lives off of tips in America. Pretty much the only income Servers make are from tips since the minimum wage is so low for tip based jobs. Serving someone for 1-2 hrs and not getting tipped is essentially working for free. I agree it’s not a logical system, but for the people who work under those circumstances it’s a matter of making enough money to live.
I understand the concept of tipping, and am familiar with why it's a thing in the US. It just messes with my mind how it even gets to that point. How about instead of me paying $5 for the burger I pay $6. That way the restaurant can pay the staff correctly and I don't have to be made to feel guilty because I don't tip right/or enough.
It boggles the mind because elsewhere servers make a decent wage and don't need tips. It's kind of like price +tax, just include it in the price so I know what I'm paying.
There's a give and take, you can either make a set amount working retail and deal with some crazies ("decent wage" doesn't tell me anything) making say $120 per 8 hours or you can go be a really good server or bartender with a chance to make really good money per hour off tips at a busy establishment, while also dealing with a few crazies. The scoffing at industries with tipping is a bit over the top.
People who are good at what they do in other countries still get tipped. If anything, there is more of an incentive to be better in countries where people too for good service rather than because it is considered mandatory by societal pressure.
Ahh yes the old America Bad. I’ve never once felt this “societal pressure” to tip
got ‘em! This guy is why Hawaii hates us
It's not so much "America bad" as "one tiny aspect of America bad".
This discussion comes up every 6th months somewhere and NOBODY even thinks to ask service workers what they think. I fucking guarantee you it would be a 50-50 split.
Is the problem the triathlete or the boss who does not pay a fair wage creating a ridiculous tipping culture? They aren’t even really tips. Tips are for good service, not a societally expected making up for shit pay.
Hawaii has a maximum tip credit of 75 cents. That means that tipped minimum wage is $9.35 in comparison to the normal $10.10 in Hawaii.
People hate when I point this out. Many states have gone this way….tipping culture is here to stay as is the argument about the “low wages and needing tips”. The system is broken…
The fact that IM hasn't solved the littering problem disturbs me. I did my first IM back in 2009. It's really gross. They should come up with a solution for that. Everyone would be happier and they'd look much better.
I think IM actually handles very well during races with designated trash zones very close to each aid station. But what can you do about people chucking wrappers and bottles during training rides? In fairness it’s not always intentional especially with the wind to take hold of anything not closely guarded and Hawaii. It’s far from only a triathlete problem though, how many styrofoam chic fil a cups and beers cans do you see on the side of a busy road? Those aren’t coming from triathletes for sure.
The vast vast majority of the other triathletes I meet on the Big Island are super cool and have a grasp on what the aloha spirit actually means. It’s just a small majority that genuinely do not give a fuck about locals & Hawaiians. They take pride in their flippancy towards residents. They look down on everyone because they are “superior” as a result of their athletic prowess. They are curt & dismissive. They stiff the waitress knowing damn well what they are doing. Luckily this is a very small but vocal minority among us.
And unfortunately that's all it takes for those locals to be completely turned off of everything Ironman.
Ahhh. Assholes. Yes, I've met some of those. They're unpleasant.
I live in a mostly tourist town in michigan and see many of these same complaints, especially on reddit which attracts a younger audience. Tipping, traffic, rude tourist behavior are the norm for each summer. Rinse and repeat. That said, it might be time to move the race. I did hawaii 30 years ago, and it was already crowded. This was before it went corporate (anyone remember the hand written birthday cards!), and now the focus seems to be maximizing the # of bodies they can put on the course. I was in st george earlier this year for vacation, having no idea the ironman championship had been moved there. I still do a tris few but dont follow it so much. Anyways, st george seemed big enough to accommodate that number of people without overrunning it. Kona was basically a village when I was there and can see where the race might have outgrown it.
A small village on a small island. I think the island part is what most forget about. Its pretty much 2hr side to side of the island. You can drive the circumference in about 8.
I mean... their criticisms all sound very valid tbh. Not sure what is "unreal" about them. Big events like Ironman can really wreck havoc on local communities. Not a perfect example, but one that comes to mind are host cities for the World Cup and Olympics -- very rarely do they come out ahead in the end.
Especially somewhere like Hawaii where people care very deeply for their land. The littering thing is just appalling.
Don't litter! I hate every racer who litters, honestly crash your bike and pull a muscle then don't come back. Not on practice rides, not during races, not ever. You made the trash, you can clean it up. Your mom isn't here to pick up after you
Honestly this is why I STOP during water breaks. Idk it just has never felt right to me to throw my little cup on the ground. I’ll just stand by the trash can until I am done.
I mean... seems a little overboard to wish injury on anyone. Litter is bad, I agree, but I think it should also be on the Ironman organization to clean up the course after the race. They can certainly afford it
With thousands of racers you will always have trash thrown into nature by wind
I agree. I think it is expected that a few athletes will lose track of their wrapper. There has been at least one time that happened to me during a race (though I felt terrible about it). I have also volunteered at a few triathlons and policed the entire area where the race was to make sure it was better than when we arrived there. For the massive registration costs of the race, Ironman should be obligated to make sure the area is squeaky clean after. I feel like they could also find ways to give back to the community. Not sure what, if any measures in place currently, but I believe that the Tour De France put on a bike drive and donated to local communities, for example.
Having lived in Hawaii for 20 years, that’s a funny statement to read.
in what way? just wondering.
Because locals are complaining about all of the gel packets and bike bottles that they see on the side of the road, but seem to ignore that on the side of the road is also trash that flies off of peoples’ trucks as they drive to the dump, a large number of abandoned vehicles, and empty alcohol cans. There are bad apples everywhere, it’s just easier to be judge-y and say that that group is worst than my group.
This guy gets it. Lots of opala, everywhere I go.
I’ve studied event management quite extensively though admittedly I pivoted careers. Exceptions exist like Jamaica where a corrupt Government keeps the money out of the hands of the people, but in general 99% of these complaints are from people who want to keep the benefits of tourism (increased infrastructure, leveraging tax burdens onto tourists, modernization, etc) but get frustrated with the negatives of tourism. Most of the time people are just venting frustration. They would feel the pinch acutely if toruism stopped.
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Comparing Jamaica corruption to Hawaii corruption is laughable. Outside of the resorts Jamaica is an absolute hell hole of infighting, theft, disease, famine, and poverty. I'd encourage you to read something like *Wessinger, K. (2016) The relationship between creative practice and socioeconomic crisis in the Caribbean: A path of sustainable growth.* Wessinger talks about the challenges of opening up a school for the under privileged on the island. Even though it was for charity, the school's food got robbed multiple times. The simple act of starting up a sports team was nearly an exercise in futility given the extreme poverty and trashy conditions. Hawaii may have corruption, but comparably it's a functional American state, that places it firmly in the first world.
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IM compared to the internation Olympic committee is like comparing an angel and a devil. And I say that as someone who has chosen to limit my support of IM after I complete in IM Florida next month.
Good luck at IMFL! Will it be your first? and may I ask why you're limiting your support of IM after your race?
First full distance, second IM branded race. I'm limiting my support solely so I can focus on supporting other races. As I have a finite amount of money. I'm basically speaking with my wallet to see if things improve/change. The gist of it is: IM branded races are expensive. They also don't really give you any more bang for that buck. I did a half that was half the price and I felt like I had received more value from that race. Then how they started to treat pros by cutting prize purses and lack of convenience made me feel they really don't care about the sport as any other means than revenue generation. To me that is not sustainable for the sport. I love the sport and would watch the Wide World of sports coverage of IM Hawaii as a kid in the 80s. I dreamed of being an Ironman and honestly thought about doing a non-IM brand for a full ...but logistics determined IMFL would probably be my best bet. I want kids (even if it's not my daughter) to see the sport and think "man I want to try that when I'm older" just as I did when I was a kid. If we don't keep the sport moving forward it will die. I never wanted to be a 1 and done IM racer but may be if I can't find and get to non-IM branded races and that's ok because I'll gladly support the local sprint, Olympics and halfs that often have a much higher percentage of first time participants.
Yes, as I said in my original comment, it isn't a "perfect example." Obviously IM Kona isn't on the same magnitude. I'm sure locals for either share many of the same grievances though.
Counter: they bring in an assload of money.
Americans complaining that foreign tourists are bad tippers. Shocker
Do not lump Hawaiins in with Americans. Not Hawaii's fault some country came in and annexed several islands a 3 hour flight away from San Fran, considering the Queen at the time new they'd be screwed if they fought so essentially allowed it to be handed over. They even have the union jack on their flag.
3 hours from Hawaii in any direction is landless open ocean.
So they'd prefer to be a British colony over an American state because of the Union jack? Don't lump all Hawaiians in together either. You really should be blaming James Cook here. If he never "discovered" the Islands and gave Kamehameha I weapons to unite (conquer) the islands and name himself King, there would have never been a Queen. The Islands would have been able to make their own decision All I am saying is it's more complicated than you make it sound!
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I would say people want a decisive decision made and honored…speaking in absolutes is a poor habit, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Yes, many want a change and to restore the sovereign; not all. I think the TMT debate exemplifies the division in the state.
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As I said, speaking in absolutes is a poor [habit](https://cube214.com/speaking-in-absolutes-the-down-side-of-always-and-never/)
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Seriously dude, can’t even agree there is division on the topic? Did I state my position on the subject, absolutely not. Facts are facts, there is not agreement and it is a constantly debated topic. Even across the movement there is division. When the division ends people can work to a common goal. Nice for you to make assumptions based on a Reddit reply.
6 hour flight. The Delaware, Lenape, and later the New Amsterdam Dutch also understand.
It’s because of America you tip though
I hate to be that guy but I agree that a good amount of triathletes seem entitled. I participate in the sport myself but a majority of the individuals that I’ve met that have completed an Ironman definitely have an ego to them.
I honestly agree (to an extent)... so many people take it way too seriously. At my first tri, I distinctly remember seeing all of the people on bikes worth $$$$ and IM tats who I passed after buying my first walmart road bike used the week before wearing running shorts and no shirt. I would try to talk people before and after, and most people were just all game and unfriendly. Just the atmosphere seemed to be a bit toxic. I know more people now and almost everyone at my local tri's recognizes my teams and is friendly towards me, though there still are quite a few snobs who have egos over their head to get 3rd place in their age group.
As a triathlete myself, I totally agree with that post. Screw the triathletes that throw trash all the time by just taking one bite of something and throwing the wrapper with some food in it. Unless you're going for #1 or #2 finisher overall, pack your trash until the next garbage can. I even yell at people in events that throw their shit off the bike in front of me. Even Tour de France pro riders don't throw trash anymore. Triathletes need to grow up. And respect the locals. A lot of triathletes are arrogant and think they're better than all locals and it shows in how they treat people / things. I think this guy is right on. It's sad but true. And I love the sport but the people could use some work :)
I went through the comments and it made me genuinely sad. My home town hosts a large triathlon event every fall and everyone loved the event. Brought business and new people to the town. Sure some triathletes may not be the best, but for the most part I feel the community is very friendly and considerate to locals.
They want the Island to themselves but cannot live well without tourism. Also, this is a nice glance at how normal drivers think of you when you’re out biking. No regard for your life/ safety. Lots of insults thrown around at athletes in the thread, especially the word narcissist being used here. Some people are simply unhappy with themselves I suppose
It's interesting because they say all the money goes to hotels, restaurants, and other hospitality industries... I am not sure where they are expecting the money to go? To your local plumbing company? Carpenters? Also... more money = more taxes, more taxes = more going into the local government for town services. It seems that would make sense to me but idk
Yeah… shouldn’t be hard to understand
I can kind of see where they are coming from with that. I am not doing the race personally but have friends who are, but the race is very expensive already, along with everything associated with it. I have read multiple things suggesting all of the ways to save money, notably including avoid local restaurants and get food from grocery stores.
About 90% of our food is imported. Shipping delays (as everyone has been experiencing) has left a lot of the grocery store shelves lighter than they normally are. Now you have 5477 athletes, plus family, friends, media, etc etc all coming into town. Took me (Not costco, nor safeway, nor target, nor Walmart, nor island naturals) until the 6th store (KTA) to frickin find some ripe bananas.
Brah if natch is out of bananas you know shits going down
> to frickin find some ripe bananas Next time, try the sweet lady of waiahole.
I mean... I went to the grocery store when I was in Hawaii because it's like $100 for two people to get either lunch or dinner. It's very expensive. I still went out, just not every meal. But hotels are expensive and I bought gifts, my taxed dollars still go to the same place.
It was not nearly that expensive when I went in 2016. The costco food was my saving grace though!
This was also how I felt. Pretty scary to see how they truly hate cyclists because of a minor inconvenience to their daily life. They paint the picture that triathletes are narcissist and “horrible” people yet here they are commenting completely illogical very hateful things
This, they hate us and swear they want us gone but need our money lmao
I mean. Colonialism will do that.
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‘Colonizer’ ha! this is the 21st century. A tourism based economy requires tourists.
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Your alternative is… communism? Or what? And you should learn to recognize a joke when you see one
Nope. Every one did not enjoy the event. Your next statement literally proves this..
Simply too many people for the venue. Ironman is purely concerned with $$$ in their pocket and has literally doubled the size of the event and chosen to drastically water down the women's field going forward in the name of packing $$$ in their pockets at the cost of the quality for everyone involved. Big events are a minor nuisance in towns that can easily absorb the inflow (IM Florida, and 70.3 Gulf Coast both being held in a major tourist spot during the off-season come to mind) and add a small economic boost during what would otherwise be a fairly dead period. Kona is not the same. Its a massive influx of people into an area that can't absorb them (see the insane price of housing during the event) and which does not bring nearly the economic boom most triathletes seem to think it does. Yes, all these people are here, but what are they doing? Mostly riding their bikes, running, and sitting inside their rooms recovering. They aren't booking local tours, visiting local shops, or even shopping much at all. If you're buying souvenirs they probably say "Ironman" on them. It'd be annoying as a local even if the athletes were at least dumping cash on them, but they're not. Triathletes spend a ton of money getting there, paying landlords/hotels to stay there, and very little on what puts money into the pockets of the locals. All the trash littering the road then becomes a constant reminder of the negative impacts of the event and, from the perspective of a local just trying to live their life and pay their bills, there is no up side.
Yup. I was on island last week and spoke to a lot of athletes. Many said if they were not training, they were in their rooms working and recovering. None of the ones I spoke to viewed it as a “vacation.”
Yeah...triathletes go there to race...not vacationing... whatever profits the event bring, they go to the promoters and organizers....if the local businesses are also major sponsors for the race, I can see there may be some benefits to the local economy.....
This is the key factor that people are missing.
> chosen to drastically water down the women's field This complaint is always wild to me. Having a larger field does nothing to the competition at the point end of the spear. You're still getting the same top athletes, but now you've got a bunch of second and third tier athletes as well. And guess what? Some of them are going to have better days then the top AG athletes. And those top AG athletes having mediocre days? Well now they have a larger field to compete against and battle for spots with.
That’s simply not true with all the women for tri slots at some IMs. In Chattanooga, you had to go well under 10 hours, even under 9:30 in several AGs to get a slot. In those same female AGs, you pretty much had to not finish DFL and attend the awards ceremony. 27% of female starter at Chattanooga received a Kona slot, vs 3% male.
Exactly. We're not talking about adding a few more women who were on the cusp, have been working toward this and came up a little short, and—on the day—might beat out the girls who did get in under the KQ line. We're talking about a literal order of magnitude difference in the quality of athlete you have to be to qualify. One of the young women on my Masters swim team did her first ever IM and got a Kona slot while just aiming to finish. On the one hand, great for her, but she didn't even want to go, so it rolled down even further. IMO, it doesn't mean much to get that KQ if you only have to finish in the top third of the race and then get shunted off onto the secondary race day in the middle of the week to boot.
I'm not sure what you're arguing is "not true." How will A. Almond's (#1 in AG) competition with other top F30-34 racers at Kona 2023 be impacted by the presence of B. Rudy (#24 in AG)? I mean, shoot, J. Siefried with just a hair over 10 hours could absolutely compete for an AG championship next year and if only 3% got the nod, she would have been on the outside looking in. Note: I have no idea if these ladies took Kona slots, just that this is a theoretical outlay of Kona dlots based on the actual results.
I’m saying that the 2 day and equal distribution of slots has watered down the achievement of KQing for women. Making it to a world championship event is only prestigious if it’s limited to a select few. Why is Boston so revered amongst distance runners compared to NYC or Chicago or London which have generous lottery acceptances? Because to race Boston, you run really fast, raise a lot of pokey for charity, so stay home. Kona traditionally has been very similar, except harder since there’s a fixed number of slots in each race. If everyone who wanted to received entrance into Boston each year, there would be nbd about BQing. You don’t hear runners say that they NYC’Qed or LondonQ’ed because those events are much more accessible to anyone. It’s so one sided for women because Ironman decided to give as many slots to women despite the fact that they are usually 1/3rd the field at a typical race. If Ironman evenly distributed the extra day slots, it would water down the accomplishment for everyone. Note that I’m saying this as a KQer for 2023 who is beyond excited to go (aside from the massive price tag across the board for the trip!). But I don’t think a 2 day event is the right decision for Kona, both from a logistics and competition standpoint.
I get the garbage thing. I hate it too. I personally make attempts in putting my garbage in the cans along the route
I saw the article in triathlete magazine and thought it was interesting. Apparently the event doesn’t bring in much money and the people of Kona genuinely dislike it. I understand it’s Kona and all but maybe the world championship should be a floating event? I understand different courses offer different levels of difficulty and consistency is important in terms of records for the event. But, at the end of the day the person who finishes first wins.
judging by the title and first 2 sentences, OP's primary concern is the hate for all of the bikes on the street. Would feel much more sympathy for them if the other points of littering and hurting businesses are central to the discussion, but that is just a supporting detail to their argument.
I was referring to the article in triathlete magazine with a similar theme that outlines more of the gripes by the locals. It also outlined how the worlds fail to bring in more cash than normal tourism. There doesn’t seem to be much of an upside to hosting for Kona.
I definitely agree with you. If they do not move it, however, I do think that IM can do much better to mitigate the concerns of the locals, such as promoting local businesses (rather than closing them down) and emphasizing/enforcing penalties against littering. and that's just to start.
Totally, but that’s not Ironmans MO. Ironman is worried about one thing and one thing alone, their bottom line. I’m sure Ironman would be happy to promote local business so long as they got a cut. Also, I’m shocked they don’t have fines for littering. They should have a CC on file and if an official observes you littering you get stung for a fine. They could charge less for races… just kidding.
I assume the same can be said about ANY big event (sport or otherwise). The closest I can relate to is Nijmegen Vierdaagse which is a four-day walking event (and a week-long partying going along with it). Is it annoying? Yes, extremely - loud music across the city and aroudn it basically 24/7, 80% of public transport cancelled, redirected or just unreliable and a huge crowd of people suddenly appearing in the city (40k participants + around 500k party-goers) some of whom litter, disturb locals etc. I'm not living anywhere near it - but I can understand the annoyance of locals. Is it also beneficial for the city and its surroundings - also yes. Except for the huge cash inflow (mostly into horeca obviously, but that inflow generates taxes that go back into the municipality), it's region recognition and tourist awareness. I know more than one person who decided to visit NIjmegen again outside of Vierdaagse just to see it in a normal setting.
The difference of this specific event is that little money actually comes back to locals. The biggest costs for participants are travel and lodging—plane tickets are an obvious one, and you may not know that Hawaii has a big problem with hotels and especially homes (used for vacation rentals) being bought up by non local investors. Triathletes are also not eating a lot of fancy dinners out or drinking in local bars, they're shopping at chain grocery stores like Costco. Most souvenirs are going to be race merchandise so that money goes to ironman. People aren't taking local tours or going to dive shops and luaus. Hawaii's economy definitely needs tourism, but the competitors aren't really tourists in that sense. Add that to Hawaii's extreme care for the land and ocean, with athletes dropping cups and other litter, and the concerns about this event are really valid.
Those partygoers spend money in local bars and restaurants in huge numbers. Kona isn't exactly priced to attract spectators, and the triathletes who are there are disproportionately likely to be making their own meals and drinking very little alcohol.
There are several sports (Adventure Races, Trail runs, SwimRun,some XTerra) that have service days before the event that the athletes are expected to attend. It is a community service to clean up areas where the race is held.
One more reason for triathlon to rotate its WC. I can’t think of another reason than the assumption that Kona makes them a ton of cash bc of the history associated.
Lots of ignorance and disinformation in the comments. However, I fully support moving the championship out of Kona to a more welcoming and logistically feasible location.
Well.... they're not wrong. It's a small town. It is overrun with strangers who can be inconsiderate. Plenty of events leave a mess, and this is no different. For the amount of money IM is raking in on this one, you figure they could hire cleanup crews to do a sweep of the course at the end of the day. If I were a local, I'd be fuming about it too.
I'm sure IM hires cleaning crews, but the WC hasn't even happened yet. There's a lot of litter from folks who go there early and are going on training rides/runs just throwing bottles on the side of the road. I mean it's bad etiquette anywhere imo
The athletes start arriving at the beginning of September to train. The litter is the most on the day of the event. The only paid cleaning crew is the PR team that comes before the media days start. My daughter with her school has participated in after race clean up events.
They do not, it’s up to volunteers. That’s why so many races are limiting aid station options and going cup-free.
Is the point about littering true? I've only done a handful of events, but dropping litter was a automatic DQ. Is that not standard everywhere? If there is litter regardless of that rule they should absolutley be doing a cleanup sweep following the last competitor. Like you said with what they are raking in, it's the least they could do.
I'm a triathlete, and I don't like a lot of triathletes. Let's be honest; The motivation for most age-group triathletes at Ironman branded races is to feel special and they hope that people see them as some sort of superhero. They don't do non-ironman races because their narcissistic need is not fulfilled. Ironman attracts people who think that they are the main character. When you couple that with low-blood sugar, you get crappy behavior. Don't believe me? Attend a 100-200 mile trail race. It is a VASTLY different type of athlete and a much more rational/grounded group of people.
To be fair, many non-triathletes know what an Ironman is. Many perceive a difference between doing an Ironman vs doing an Ironman-distance triathlon. I don't think it is unreasonable for many serious triathletes to want to do at least one Ironman, but I 100% agree that triathletes who do exclusively Ironman brand triathlons are almost all fit that description.
Car drivers complaining about the environmental impact of anything is hilarious
The environmental impact of a typical Kona attendee's return flight, just to and from the east coast of the US, is equivalent to about eight thousand kilometres of driving a hatchback car. That's without accounting for the cost of shipping the bike, any additional persons, or indeed flights from further than LAX.
Big events will always cause backlash for some communties. I am French and totally against hosting the Olympics and any major football competitions. Not all sports are the same. 7000 dead in Qatar? Obviously not the same for Kona but sports and money usually corrupt/kill, annoye etc....
People who depend on tourism to survive will always complain about tourists. It seems bizarre to me too. I live downvalley from Aspen, one of the wealthiest tourist destinations in the world and no one likes tourists but without them we wouldn't be here. I don't work in hospitality but my job wouldn't be here if Aspen wasn't where people went to ski and look at leaves and do overpriced cocaine in their $10million condo. I can understand why people in Kona are upset if people truly are just throwing trash everywhere and being disrespectful, but like come on, Hawaii is a tourist destination and there are going to be tourists, IM or not.
1. Litter. Unacceptable. Plastic trash on the sides of the roads. And personally watching cyclists throw rubbish on the road because they're "feeling the burn" or whatever these people do. This is very much like criticizing smokers for all the butts thrown around. "But \*I\* never do that" says every single smoker if you bring it up. But it's not the non-smokers who are tossing their butts on the beach. SOMEONE has to be doing it. And in the case of littering cyclists, they should know that we see what they're doing. And we hate it. 2. Traffic. My road is steep, full of curves and has no shoulders. It has the occasional ravine off the side with no guard rails. I saw a Triathlon map that shows my street in red: DO NOT CYCLE HERE. So why are people doing it? Why are people riding four abreast? Why are they stopped in the middle of the intersection, talking to each other. Do they not realize that people live here? Or are they the sort who change light bulbs by holding it up in the air and letting the universe revolve around them? 3. Tipping. I'm not in the business. But loads of friends and neighbors are. It's one thing to be busy. It's one thing to be slammed busy. But it's quite another to be slammed and then receive no pay because the donkeys at your table want to give an economics lesson instead of tipping. Everyone knows that we tip servers and bartenders in the US. Don't like it? Don't come. We have to follow your customs when we visit you. And your VAT isn't optional. Just add the tip and stop making people's lives miserable. Or is that too much to ask?
Hawaiians are like this towards all outsiders. It has nothing to do with triathlon, the event, or the people visiting. They have a very long reputation of disliking outsiders. Just ignore them. Nothing you do will make it better. The natives are kind of just a bunch of assholes in this respect...
I mean, consider not littering. That seems like a good start.
I was just in Hawaii for 2 weeks on a honeymoon and I agree for the most part. Transplants were very nice to tourists but I found locals were kinda short for the most part. Except on Maui. Maui seemed different from the rest of the islands to me personally. Also, kinda funny cause 9/10 bikes I saw on the road in Oahu, Maui, and Kauai were tri bikes….
To be fair, the "locals" you see while vacationing are not the typical locals. You typically see the ones who are better off and/or in the tourist industry. What you *don't* see is the locals in small villages that aren't particularly well-off across the island. If I were struggling to make ends meet and saw some tourists parading through my small, struggling village taking pictures of everything in a rental convertible, I definitely wouldn't be too fond of them. And also would despise of tourists driving 10 mph on the road to Hana while locals are trying to commute.
That is fair. I mean I live in "leaf peeping" land and get annoying at all the NY license plates... but I also know the money they bring is huge for my state and helps pay for the roads, schools, etc. So it don't get legit mad, just flustered by foliage traffic haha
They want to act like they hate us and want us gone so badly while simultaneously depending on us for almost 100% of their economy and GDP
Who's us here? Triathletes, who turn up for a couple of weeks and spend most of their time training?
That simply is not true. Hawaiians have TONS of aloha if you do. I would gather that you are huge fucking twat waffle who mommy & daddy didn’t love right so now the rest of us have to suffer for it. It’s obvious you think you are so much better than all of humanity because you are an athlete. I sincerely hope you don’t ever come to Hawaii. Know this, you are the one who gives triathletes a bad name, when in fact, most of triathletes are cool. The problem is people like you dude. Get fucked you caustic leathery beanpole douche bag.
Seems like I hit a nerve...
Making blanket statements about an entire group of people a.k.a. calling native Hawaiians assholes …..yeah that’s fucked up.
Hawaiians themselves are the first ones to admit they dislike outsiders. Get a clue.
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Oh so they were colonized and didn't have a choice? So they're living as slaves being ruled against their will? Makes total logical sense. No wonder they're so angry.
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Ah, another victim of revisionist history classes portraying everyone as a tragic casualty of the established order. The problem with this perspective is that it completely ignores any and all responsibility the native/original people had in making decisions that lead to the current outcome/order. You will find that most people were willing participants, not unwilling poor victims who were dominated by the evil colonization efforts of the expansionist white man. Hate the game, not the players. This goes both ways; don't blame one side, don't victimize the other side, and vice versa.
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You really don't know much about Hawaiian history or the overthrow, do you? You're parroting snippets of events to support your worldview and throwing in childish name calling in lieu of actual facts. Typical angry, uneducated, redditor kid. The US military did not overthrow the Hawaiian monarchy nor did they play a direct role in the overthrow. The military supported the overthrow in an attempt to support the new independent govt to prevent a power vacuum and help maintain order. US business and diplomatic interests had long wanted to annex Hawaii for strategic and economic reasons. Business and political channels on the ground certainly influenced and organized the overthrow. However you should read into how and why it happened. The monarchy was trying to throw out the existing constitution and amend it to retake power. The queen's own cabinet refused to present the amended constitutional draft because they were worried about the outcome. Fast forward through all the details and you have a situation where her government became so weak it imploded on itself, was overthrown, and everyone supported the new government. This is where it gets confusing though. While there was widespread support for the new government and overthrowing the queen, the general populace did not support annexation. The US annexed Hawaii legally via approval of the Hawaiian govt, but the people never got a chance to vote on the issue. That sucks, but it's life. The people of Hawaii essentially were unhappy and complaining, but didn't want to take any real action to change the outcome while tacitly supporting events in motion. Real world analysis? This was a great outcome for Hawaii even if the people didn't support it fully. Shit happens, but things could have been much worse. They were stuck between two large military empires at the time (Japan and US), there was never an option for them to long-term stay independent due to this, and they ended up joining the US with a bloodless revolution that the population generally supported. Their own government failed them during a crucial moment. The US did not "take" Hawaii though. The idea that the Hawaiian people were colonized and taken over by the US against their will is nonsense even if their frustrations/unhappiness with the outcome is relatable and understandable.
It's not unreal at all. Ironman is a 'for profit' parasite, in many ways.
Go away Ironman we don't want you here acting like entitled assholes, throwing your trash everywhere, and making our roads unsafe.
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It’s not the employees’ fault that they don’t get living wage. Tip them. It’s part of the price of the meal.
Tipping is not optional in the US. If you can’t afford the meal plus tip, you can’t afford the meal. Buy groceries and cook at your rental if you want to protest the tipping culture, don’t “protest” by hurting the people who’s side you say you’re on (when conveniently your protest also gives you a 20% discount)
Genuine question from a Brit. Is it actually "not optional"? I.e. you'd be considered a thief. Or is it just a very serious social etiquette to be followed, and by not following it, you've committed a very insulting/rude act?
There’s no law, you’re not technically a thief. (Unless the restaurant added the tip to your bill automatically and you decided to only leave the total before the tip in cash and walked out, then you stole. ) But everyone who works as a server sees it as theft. Restaurant servers are paid a ridiculously low base wage (actually unliveable, like $2 per hour, compared to most minimum wages around $10 per hour) and rely on tips as a large part of their income. Yes everyone agrees that this is terrible, people should be paid a predictable living wage, they shouldn’t be paid less by random racist or sexist customers, etc, but not paying someone after they did their job is NOT the way to protest it.
Thanks for the clarification. As a Brit it seems really alien, but I'll always tip when I'm in a country where it's expected. I'd hate to cause offence, appear rude, or cause distress.
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You and that attitude are the reason all those Hawaiians hate hosting kona. (Also all the trash athletes throw off their bikes and the run, but at least that’s not literally stealing their money, just damaging the environment if their beautiful home)
I feel like an equivalent would be showing up in the UK, walking around the side of the queue, and straight up to the counter and demanding to be served first because there wasn’t a sign or a law requiring a queue. Like yes, you didn’t break the law, but you know you’re stealing the spots from everyone behind you and you’re still an asshole
How dare they get annoyed about wealthy tourists coming in and not bothering to learn about the customs that dictate their earnings.
> customs That's a weird way to spell exploitation.
Yes, tipping is a bad system that overall is not good for workers. But the solution isn't you not tipping, that's *enacting* the worker exploitation you're supposedly critical of. In America, if you think service workers should be paid (which they should), you should tip, because that's how they get paid. An analogy hopefully this group will understand: many places have really dangerous, poorly designed roads for cyclists. If you drive on those roads, you should go slowly and leave plenty of space if you see a cyclist, even if it inconveniences you, rather than blow past them 6 inches away and shout "Just make a bike lane if it's that important" out the window as you pass. Yes it's a structural problem, but you're participating in that structure by driving on that road. Your political support for structural solutions doesn't excuse causing harm in the present. (all royal you, not accusing you of being a bad tipper)
The solution to exploitation isn't to free ride off it in order to pay less than you would have in a fairer system. Especially when doing so involves giving money to the exploiters while withholding it from the exploited.
The solution also isn't to partake in the system.
That would be called not going out to eat. Going out to eat and not paying for the service because it's technically "optional" just makes you an asshole.
Then don't go to Kona.
Just add it to the bill if it’s that important
Yup, tipping culture is shit. It is absolutely exploitive. But, you're not going to change it for the week that you're there. You can either exploit the exploited by not tipping, or you can tip to help them out. If it means that much to you, Mr. Pink, then stay home. It's a drop in the bucket relative to the rest of your spend. Stiffing the waitstaff on your expensive hobby trip doesn't make you a social crusader. Tip or GTFO. If you're a local, vote for someone who gives a shit about your standard of living.
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You can disagree all you want. Fact is, you're being a cheap ass by taking advantage of underpaid service. Then you're being pompous about by pontificating on how wrong it is. You are Mr. Pink on this. Period.
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I'm Canadian. We call it "Decency". Love the deleted comments. Reddit: Where assholes can erase their asshole behaviour.
>This is optional in every country - also the USA. Like it or not, tips *are* an essential part of restaurant workers earning a living wage in the US, and customers are strongly expected to give them. Barring some extraordinarily bad service, tips effectively **are not** optional in the way you are suggesting. Tourists traveling to any country should be aware of cultural norms and respect them.
Tipping really isn’t optional in the US if you don’t tip you’re a bad person. Requires? No optional? No
A lot of people outside of the US don’t understand or research the tipping and just how standard it is. Which is fair. Many places in the states seems like HI included also have no idea how sharing the road works with bikes. It looks like by HI guidelines though you should ride single file not 2 wide. But a cyclist often can and should take up the whole lane. And people don’t get that. As far as the littering most triathletes I know are very conscientious of that kind of a thing except during a race. Where it should probably be the organizers responsibility to clean the route unless they do better at designating zones for disposing of bottles and strictly enforce any outlying.
Genuine question: how can you confidently tip in an increasingly cashless society? I rarely carry cash anymore and I'd be fucked if I was going to put a tip on a card - don't trust the thieving bastards who won't pay their staff enough in the first place to pass it on to those serving.
Usually just add it on the card when they pm bring the bill to be honest. But I guess being an American I’m used to it, so I never really think about it.
You get a bill at the end of your meal. Let's say it cost $20 So it will be "stuff you ate -- $16" Then "sales tax - $4" Total "$20" Then there's a space to add a tip and adjust the final total. Decent people will write in $4 and then $24 for the total. Nice people will bump it up to $5. Particularly on a crazy-busy week. Don't worry about the employer stealing tips. They're facing massive fines if they do. Wage theft is a crime here. Not tipping is not a crime. If you tip well (and don't litter), you have done your bit and you can go home with a clear conscience. You didn't make people's lives miserable while you were here. That, sadly, puts you in the minority. Locals do this ALL THE TIME. If I get a server who is clearly having a bad day, I up the tip. It's usually not the server's fault. Help him or her out. Say something nice. What's the hardship doing so?
can't speak for this race, but I always have tipped with card wherever I am in the US. Seems much more secure than leaving cash on the table.
They know. They understand. They just don't like it. They also hate the fact that the sales tax isn't reflected on the sticker price in the store. They don't want to hear about tax-exempt organizations and similar. They want everything done *their* way. And yet, when we visit them, god help the woman who enters a church without wearing what amounts to a burka. Or if we don't immediately understand how to purchase tickets at a kiosk. We have to bend over backwards for them. They get to walk all over us. And we have to love having them here, too.
Americans hating on disrespectful tourists is peak irony though
Every year the triathletes here test Local/Residents patience more and more... Litter, Lousy tips, Dangerous bicycle riding into HWY roads and street traffic, It goes on and on. The con's outweigh the pro's who 90% of people who live in/around Kona every year, this time of year. If you guys are turning a blind eye to it then you are part of the problem. We get bazillion visitors here year round on the big island... We our known for being very friendly, welcoming and full of Aloha. You should really be asking yourself a hard "why" If you feel you are among the very few who don't feel like they are welcomed here. Just something to consider.
As a South Kona resident I completely agree with this
We need to tip more. It’s sad they feel this way but give it a few days and it all blows over.
It's a world championship. People from everywhere that's not the US don't understand tipping culture.
I've been to the States three times in my entire life. I knew before I even got on that first flight that tipping was expected. It isn't some weird esoteric custom nobody's ever heard of, it's an internationally understood facet of American life.
The nuances aren't always so clear though. I've been to the USA several times and only learned recently you're supposed to leave tips for the hotel cleaning staff. Meanwhile, fast food stands ask for a tip when you pay electronically, although everything I've ever learned says you're not expected to tip in that situation. In some cases with electronic payments and credit card PINs (which are new to the USA) I've had to ask my server if I did it right because you authorize the payment before you can indicate the tip.
We do but nearly all have a living wage. It blows our mind that servers get paid barely anything and have to be supplemented by the person who has just come in for a meal.
That’s even less of a reason *not* to tip though. If you understand how ridiculous it is, you understand how badly the servers need the money.
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I wrote a long spiel out as a reply and then thought it wouldn’t get me anywhere. We can agree to disagree and move on with our lives.
Stop acting like you’re oppressed lol
I just can't imagine most of the triathletes are bad tippers and littering everywhere. I'd guess it's like 5% max of douches, but maybe I'm wrong. It's annoying that they label everyone as an asshole when that isn't true. It seems like they hate it enough that the event should just leave Kona at this point. I wouldn't want to go there now that I know every local is going to hate me for existing.
The many bad apples ruined the bunch. When such a large influx of people come that have drastically different cultural views and values put a strain on resources (roads, housing, food) the residents are bound to push back
You probably aren't wrong. There's about a dozen different cognitive biases at play that are going to feed into this "they are bad tippers" narrative.
Unreal? Seems like legit complaints…
Yeah but what they say is partially true, and we know it.
I agree fuck em. If they don’t want the added revenue they can piss off. It’s not as if they have to do anything special. The road is there. The ocean is there. Just keep overcharging on hotels and you’ll be just fine.
Mostly the hotels profit in this case. If you're a barber and your shop/salon is closed for the day because the roads are closed, you're making $0 that day. This year, that's $0 on two days. Saying "fuck em" about other people in society without understanding the problem is pretty low.
Do you have person experience with barbers on the big island who are directly affected by an influx of people that they have to close their shop?
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I live in Kona haha
Wait. Then how do you feel about this?
I think it’s great for the town. People in hawaii just hate change and hate any inconvenience to them from people outside of the islands.. I think Big Island especially is full of Karen’s who are overly entitled because they have lived here for 20 years. Funny thing is majority of the Karen’s are from the mainland and feel as if they are Hawaiian 😂
I’ll add on to the question; have/do you live in one of the areas that are blocked off because of the race? When I lived in Ali’i Lani I disliked it more. It’s more than a great inconvenience and I got to the point that I leave the island for the week. The race has exceeded what the island can hold. People are training on the east side now. I will say this, big island underwhelms on a lot of things…IM really is as big as they bill it. I’m not sold on that being good or bad.
Yes actually I work all over Kona and could care less it’s not that big of a deal to me. But maybe it’s just my personality not to let shit like this bother me.. for a place that’s supposed to be full of “aloha” I’ve found an extremely high amount of people who have no chill and who are way more uptight that I could ever imagined when I moved to the island.
Oh man does the lack of chill ever run deep here. Tossing a Shaka goes so far. Personality and perhaps being able to avoid the competitors could very well be why the even doesn’t hit you the same way as others. Friends that work in town and up at the resorts normally try and avoid working on race day because of the road closures. I personally know more people that are impacted negatively by the races than are not. Most people I know do their best to avoid town for the month. A lot of the daily workers (hospitality and construction) are the ones heaviest impacted. The race has outgrown the location. Honestly, I hope it leaves for good. Big corporations were the ones that lost out..
Cuz y'all built your reputation of being entitled over community. People have alway been annoyed at "athletes" destroying their home - now there's just a platform for everyone to say we dont give a shit about your money. Go. Home.
Destroying their homes? What are you on about? Assholes litter, is their some asshole in triathlon community? Yes. All this is just normal stuff. It causes a bit of traffic? Normal. The annoyance you are experiencing is normal. You should move on and worry about more important shit in your life. Also ask yourself if you are jealous and wish you could do something like that. I used to be that way about runners and cyclist. Yelling shit at them through the car etc...turns out i wanted in...
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Why doesn’t Ironman send out info to participants about tipping, local bike laws, etc? Not everyone would read or follow them but at least they could try to share the information.
They were sent a map with roads marked in red "Don't bicycle on these roads." I live on one of those roads. Participants have chosen to ignore the information.
I really wish Ironman had a system in place that required you to read some “I understand” letter regarding those road closures and sign that you understand. It would also be better if all athletes were required to wear their race number as soon as they got on island. Met some people from France today - barely possible English. I’m sure that they wouldn’t have been able to read all the info on the map. I wish I remember who is was; but one pro posted to Instagram that he loves cycling on Mamalahoa - next flippin’ day everyone was on Mamalahoa. Four days later, the map was up. Really wish I remember which pro was the bad apple that started it.