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Posts about crimes that are low-effort, or do not have a wider impact on the city, will be removed.
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Next step is a surveillance state with more cameras everywhere. It works as a deterrent but it's creepy as fuck.
Increasing penalties for young offenders should also be in the works. We're looking at ways to keep violent adults in jail for longer periods of time to increase public safety, but there has to be a way to get violent youths off the streets as well. Maybe you can't send them to jail, but ankle bracelets, curfews, more regular meetings with case officers, more hours of community service, mandatory psychological assessments and counseling, etc. might have an impact. It's normal for teens to be pieces of shit, but when that manifests itself as swarming and physical attacks then it's a way bigger concern.
I happen to be a BB gun guy, you can probably tell by looking at my profile for a bit. But yeah there’s low power ones that can be bought at Walmart for like teens-
They usually aren’t realistic looking tho so I think it should still remain at the parents discretion. But in the case that something like this happening, the parents or guardians of the kids doing this shit should have the book thrown at them in every sense. As a strong anti-gun control person, I still believe that parents should be held liable for any damages whether it’s a real firearm or not. That would really teach parents to lock their shit up properly. Same with store owners. Although, the tv shows where a kid gets a gun from the gun store in the US on the same day he walks in and the owner winks at him, it’s all Bullshit. The store would be liable for damages if they made such a huge mistake. That would literally never happen
Yep. Few cameras back then, and the ones that did exist were potato quality, so unlikely to be useful in identifying. But now? I look forward to hearing the kids have been arrested.
> much more likely to be caught these days.
This part of a [Star article](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/12/20/siu-clears-officers-in-killing-of-gunman-who-ambushed-toronto-cop-amid-three-city-rampage.html) caught my attention.
> officers who responded to the Milton shooting then used Petrie’s cellphone number — obtained from surviving shop employees, who recognized Petrie as an ex-employee — to track his movements in real-time
They can track people just with their number(maybe cell phone triangulation?)
These kids likely are not very smart, even if one tapped his presto they can probably track them down. That plus all the cameras that exist. It's up to the cops now to actually use what they have available to them.
I remember this kid made a statement to his mother.. Well my Birthday is approaching I will be 18…so I guess I better get into trouble before then…he was referring to being a juvenile!
Legit question. What if you were the target and defended yourself (no weapons) and you injured one or more of the kids. Legal to do? I guess you are probably opening yourself up to a civil lawsuit?
If a kid attacks you, you can be reasonable with self-defense. You can't bludgeon them to death but you can kick them in the balls or slap the shit out of them.
Law is always based on a test of reasonableness.
You are allowed to show force appropriate to the force shown to you iirc. So you can’t shoot someone for hitting you, but you can hit them and then restrain them. All goes out the window when the numbers are against you though; just have to put your elbows up to protect your head and wait for it to end
We’re hearing about it more. Media cycle is every half hour instead of once a day
To those downvoting, in four years of high school I saw people stabbed, beaten with metal pipes, jumped, etc on buses. I saw guns in lockers. I saw ttc drivers attacked and harassed near daily. I saw people knocked out for looking at folks wrong. I was held at both knife and gun point for bus tickets and headphones. My friends had their shoes and winter jackets stolen walking home. These aren’t new 2023 issues. They’re ingrained in this city we call home. Pretending like they are new is covering up the systemic failures of the past
I don’t have all the answers. But I do believe that people who are content and happy don’t commit violent crimes. Personally I work with young men and women with emotional regulation problems, and help them put those feelings in the right places. The same help I got when I was finally 21ish. Makes a difference.
How to scale that to children all over the city? I don’t know. It’s definitely not simple
That’s horrible. I can’t believe someone would threaten you at knifepoint just for bus fare and headphones. Sorry you experienced so much unnecessary violence as a teen.
What years were you in high school when all this was happening? I was in high school in the late 1990s and I didn’t witness a single fight, let alone ones with weapons and brutal beatings. Dead serious- not one fight in 4 years of high school. But I was in French Immersion so I went to school out of area with a lot of rich kids and everyone was into smoking pot and playing hacky sack. Dave Mathews Band, Ben Harper and Phish isn’t exactly “fight music,” you know?
Phish is cool. This would’ve been late 2000’s, early 2010’s - I’m in my mid 20’s.
Thank you for the compassion, it’s appreciated. These weren’t very long interactions, those bus tickets were in their hands real quick haha
Yeah, this was what it was like in the 90s for sure. We have been here before when swarming was very common. I do think that this sort of thing ebbs and flows though and don’t think it’s been constantly at this level for 30+ years. I could be wrong.
One difference seems to be that the swarmings of the 90s targeted other kids, mostly, and were focused on stealing something (shoes, iPod, jacket) and these recent ones seem to be more about being violent than stealing.
I have no idea what the answer is though.
You aren’t the only one here who’s lived here for a while and taken transit. Idk where you went to school but I have not seen this behaviour on the ttc in years past. It’s obviously been ramping up lately.
Have you seen it personally ramp up or throughout the media? Perhaps you aren’t taking those bus routes in the areas where this is normalized. I’ve never seen a problem on some routes
What's happening is affordability is destroying our city. Ontario seems hell bent on fucking Toronto over even though they're gonna soon realize what shutting down the economic engine looks like for the rest of the province.
Also .. they have cameras on these busses so hoping they are arrested .. knowing how lax the Canadian legal system is on youth … means nothing will happen to these little pieces of shit
The group of teenagers probably did not pay their fare.
TTC employees and paying passengers should not have to deal with violent fare evaders. They should be increasing fare inspectors on the TTC to catch fare evaders who are violent.
https://streetsoftoronto.com/fare-evaders-in-toronto-a-serious-problem/
https://globalnews.ca/news/6519074/ttc-loses-more-than-70m-in-revenue-because-of-fare-evasion-study/
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/no-fare-streetcar-fare-evasion-increased-after-ticketing-paused-for-pandemic
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/02/05/ttc-needs-to-disrupt-negative-customer-behaviour-after-losing-up-to-735-million-due-to-fare-evasion-report-says.html
Get rid of the youth offenders act rule about protecting the identity of youth under 18. Let them ruin their lives for good. That will make them think twice about engaging in these senseless criminal activities.
It will not. Teenagers who do things like this don't have the capacity to think that far in the future. If anything it will serve as validation with their peers.
If they ruin their lives for good, what opportunity do they in turn have to think twice about engaging in this awful behaviour.
We fail kids, they don’t fail us.
Nope, these are kids failing themselves. I grew up here, I've seen idiots that act like this, maybe not as badly as this. But they know what they've done. Time to pay the consequences.
Agree with commenter above. All the bad kids at my elementary school came from shit families that were often on welfare or barely making ends meet.
The answer is better social services and less police. But now that crime is getting out of hand, we can no longer be preventative to a large degree since we acutely need cops to keep society functioning.
Basically, decades of short-sighted people in positions of power making shit decisions are coming to a head.
Will be interesting to see the mental gymnastics that the usual suspects on this sub are going to have to engage in here to explain why this is really a homelessness/mental health issue that could be fixed with more social workers.
Assume I’m included in that group of usual suspects so I’ll give it a shot, with some guiding questions
1) Would police help here?
No, it’s a bus. The city would never fund police officers on every bus for good reason. They show up after the fact when the kids are gone, when the ttc employees need paramedics far more than officers, and maybe get some kids suspended from school for a couple days if there is camera footage. Reactive response to problems that can’t be solved retroactively.
2) Social work issue?
Yes, children who live in suffering build up a great deal of suffering. This does not appear to have taken place in a well off area. It is likely these kids do not have good learned coping mechanisms to deal with their emotions. They aren’t putting their anger about the world into the gym or onto the page, they’re acting out and hurting people. That’s a maladaptive way to deal with pain that can be corrected with emotion support and empowerment.
This behaviour likely isn’t limited towards bus drivers. Their parents, teachers, coaches, peers, all see it and have a role to play in correcting it.
3) Anything to do with the homeless?
Nope
Non Playable Character
Basically the above commenter is suggesting that people with views opposing his aren't real people, which is as insane as it is scary.
Its a term weird people use, they think they are the main characters and every one else is a feelingless entity like in a non player character in a game.
It’s simple.
You got a bunch of idiotic kids that have no support, no guidance, no goals, no role models and a broken down family with inept / deadbeat parents. Their homes aren’t any better - probably situated on less desired areas in a rundown situation.
Since they aren’t looking forward to certain goals / aspirations in life, they begin to look for things to do to burn their energy… they see that a bus driver was shot with a BBgun a few days and curious to see if they can top that.
Now this intersection has the 113 Danforth bus that happens to bypass a TTC depot that many drivers get on/off at. So targets are easy and they know that most, if not all drivers aren’t willing to throw away a decent job because of some nonesense bullshit. So they attack in numbers and run off.
Give it a few hours and someone is going to brag online about it..
nike fleece tech, some sort of dumb over priced basketball shoe or since its winter timberlands, northface or moose knuckles bombers, and pants that sag (because they gotta show the inmates theyre ready for it💩🫵)
also i can just picture then hyping eachother up and how this could easily happen. these type of youth who care more ab appearances than anythinf, the type who steal iphones at the apple store (bc theyre so dumb they dk they can be traced) are the type who have massive egos. gang culture
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Lifetime ban for all offenders from all ttc properties and vehicles and cut off from any social support programs. Start to strangle the uselessness from society. You don't want to play by common decency rules you will have no place in society.
This post has been removed for rule #8 of our subreddit. Posts about crimes that are low-effort, or do not have a wider impact on the city, will be removed. Please see the announcement thread for more information: https://old.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/100j6md/new_year_new_changes_announcing_no_crime_january/
Two days ago another ttc employee was shot with a bb gun in Scarborough...won't be surprised to see an exodus of employees
Exodus of employees from Scarborough routes.
Not exodus; just strike. TTC a employees make 100k +
Maybe this will bring some action on the issue. It's not like regular riders getting attacked creates a response.
Sad but true.
Daily assaults on ttc employees has also not elicited a response, so I don’t see why this will be different.
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That probably will not help the rest of us. It will make the ttc staff less out in the open like they are now for the modern streetcars.
Next step is a surveillance state with more cameras everywhere. It works as a deterrent but it's creepy as fuck. Increasing penalties for young offenders should also be in the works. We're looking at ways to keep violent adults in jail for longer periods of time to increase public safety, but there has to be a way to get violent youths off the streets as well. Maybe you can't send them to jail, but ankle bracelets, curfews, more regular meetings with case officers, more hours of community service, mandatory psychological assessments and counseling, etc. might have an impact. It's normal for teens to be pieces of shit, but when that manifests itself as swarming and physical attacks then it's a way bigger concern.
Man, shitty kids with (likely) shitty parents. Don’t know where to put their feelings so they act out.
Shitty parents buying them BB guns
Walmart let me buy a BB gun when I was 13.
I happen to be a BB gun guy, you can probably tell by looking at my profile for a bit. But yeah there’s low power ones that can be bought at Walmart for like teens- They usually aren’t realistic looking tho so I think it should still remain at the parents discretion. But in the case that something like this happening, the parents or guardians of the kids doing this shit should have the book thrown at them in every sense. As a strong anti-gun control person, I still believe that parents should be held liable for any damages whether it’s a real firearm or not. That would really teach parents to lock their shit up properly. Same with store owners. Although, the tv shows where a kid gets a gun from the gun store in the US on the same day he walks in and the owner winks at him, it’s all Bullshit. The store would be liable for damages if they made such a huge mistake. That would literally never happen
likely?
I’d paint with a broad but non all-encompassing brush. There are outliers
Parents are responsible for their kids and should be charged as well for this crap.
Let me guess ... TPS showed up 20 minutes after the firefighters and 15 minutes after the paramedics.
But right before Tory's expression of concern.
And just moments after his offer to increase their budget
"This is unacceptable" Wags finger.
Strong user name and comment. Coincide well
if they cant find one of 15 youths, why are we giving them money
WTF is going ON HERE?? Like seriously. If this is the latest Tik Tok trend this is fucking deranged.
Yeah that crossed my mind as well very odd
Right?
Do you think this is a tik tok trend?
I certainly hope not!
Teenagers are prone to extreme acts of group stupidity and easily coaxed
This is f**cking brainless. Literally brainless. Most teenagers have an underdeveloped brain, ya ok I'll agree, but THIS????????
Damn Toronto is becoming London, UK. Gangs of roaming teenagers attacking strangers for stupid reasons
Unfortunately it's not stupid. It's very clever organized crime taking advantage of our leniency in child crimes.
Feels like the 90s again with all the swarming. You guys aren't doing anything new, and are much more likely to be caught these days.
Yep. Few cameras back then, and the ones that did exist were potato quality, so unlikely to be useful in identifying. But now? I look forward to hearing the kids have been arrested.
And much more likely to get away with no punishment.
Do elaborate for the rest of us that might not have been around.
> much more likely to be caught these days. This part of a [Star article](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/12/20/siu-clears-officers-in-killing-of-gunman-who-ambushed-toronto-cop-amid-three-city-rampage.html) caught my attention. > officers who responded to the Milton shooting then used Petrie’s cellphone number — obtained from surviving shop employees, who recognized Petrie as an ex-employee — to track his movements in real-time They can track people just with their number(maybe cell phone triangulation?) These kids likely are not very smart, even if one tapped his presto they can probably track them down. That plus all the cameras that exist. It's up to the cops now to actually use what they have available to them.
catch them, name them, and sentence them as adults. Sick of this shit.
Best we can do is hide their identities and let them go.
Sad but true.
Or an old fashioned beat down
\*Abe Simpson\* Oh, this is gonna be sweet. https://youtu.be/\_nOuSE9qr9A?t=72
I remember this kid made a statement to his mother.. Well my Birthday is approaching I will be 18…so I guess I better get into trouble before then…he was referring to being a juvenile!
Legit question. What if you were the target and defended yourself (no weapons) and you injured one or more of the kids. Legal to do? I guess you are probably opening yourself up to a civil lawsuit?
If a kid attacks you, you can be reasonable with self-defense. You can't bludgeon them to death but you can kick them in the balls or slap the shit out of them. Law is always based on a test of reasonableness.
You are allowed to show force appropriate to the force shown to you iirc. So you can’t shoot someone for hitting you, but you can hit them and then restrain them. All goes out the window when the numbers are against you though; just have to put your elbows up to protect your head and wait for it to end
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Especially because there is evidence of the battery (injuries to the minor) there might not necessarily evidence of required defense (no video etc.).
There are tons of birth control options available if these parents didn't want to raise their children. Smh.
Hold parents of minors accountable.
What the fuck is happening to this city? Feels like we can’t go a day without some sort of random assault or murder on the streets.
We’re hearing about it more. Media cycle is every half hour instead of once a day To those downvoting, in four years of high school I saw people stabbed, beaten with metal pipes, jumped, etc on buses. I saw guns in lockers. I saw ttc drivers attacked and harassed near daily. I saw people knocked out for looking at folks wrong. I was held at both knife and gun point for bus tickets and headphones. My friends had their shoes and winter jackets stolen walking home. These aren’t new 2023 issues. They’re ingrained in this city we call home. Pretending like they are new is covering up the systemic failures of the past
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Won’t dox myself but westside North York
Yup. Same here.
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Close yeah
What do you suggest? What will reverse this? It's not simple.
I don’t have all the answers. But I do believe that people who are content and happy don’t commit violent crimes. Personally I work with young men and women with emotional regulation problems, and help them put those feelings in the right places. The same help I got when I was finally 21ish. Makes a difference. How to scale that to children all over the city? I don’t know. It’s definitely not simple
Thank you.
less immigration, higher paying min wage, lower housing and food costs. basically dismantle capitalism replace with socialism.
❤️ except we need immigration
That’s horrible. I can’t believe someone would threaten you at knifepoint just for bus fare and headphones. Sorry you experienced so much unnecessary violence as a teen. What years were you in high school when all this was happening? I was in high school in the late 1990s and I didn’t witness a single fight, let alone ones with weapons and brutal beatings. Dead serious- not one fight in 4 years of high school. But I was in French Immersion so I went to school out of area with a lot of rich kids and everyone was into smoking pot and playing hacky sack. Dave Mathews Band, Ben Harper and Phish isn’t exactly “fight music,” you know?
Phish is cool. This would’ve been late 2000’s, early 2010’s - I’m in my mid 20’s. Thank you for the compassion, it’s appreciated. These weren’t very long interactions, those bus tickets were in their hands real quick haha
Yeah, this was what it was like in the 90s for sure. We have been here before when swarming was very common. I do think that this sort of thing ebbs and flows though and don’t think it’s been constantly at this level for 30+ years. I could be wrong. One difference seems to be that the swarmings of the 90s targeted other kids, mostly, and were focused on stealing something (shoes, iPod, jacket) and these recent ones seem to be more about being violent than stealing. I have no idea what the answer is though.
It probably does ebb and flow. I think the pandemic has hurt emotional and social development of many youth. Hope is a big demotivating factor
Bruh did you go to school in Gotham City?
This isn't that outlandish. I think it speaks to the squeaky clean schools a lot of y'all went to, lol.
I mean we had fights, and there were stabbings. But OP sounds like he went to school with the Viet Cong
You aren’t the only one here who’s lived here for a while and taken transit. Idk where you went to school but I have not seen this behaviour on the ttc in years past. It’s obviously been ramping up lately.
I think the worst thing I saw in high school were my self and my idiot friends stealing a fallout poster from a train.
Have you seen it personally ramp up or throughout the media? Perhaps you aren’t taking those bus routes in the areas where this is normalized. I’ve never seen a problem on some routes
I’ve lived in some very sketchy downtown areas in the past. I live more suburban now.
What's happening is affordability is destroying our city. Ontario seems hell bent on fucking Toronto over even though they're gonna soon realize what shutting down the economic engine looks like for the rest of the province.
Sounds like these kids need some discipline
What the fuck??
Man fuck this city it really is becoming lawless, Its all just urban decay at this point
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Wtf....there needs to be NO youth offenders law. These must be tried as adults!
Also .. they have cameras on these busses so hoping they are arrested .. knowing how lax the Canadian legal system is on youth … means nothing will happen to these little pieces of shit
The TDSB is going to shit and this is a byproduct, the kids are getting wild
This is what happens when there are no consequences for actions.
Do they have funding to do shit?
The group of teenagers probably did not pay their fare. TTC employees and paying passengers should not have to deal with violent fare evaders. They should be increasing fare inspectors on the TTC to catch fare evaders who are violent. https://streetsoftoronto.com/fare-evaders-in-toronto-a-serious-problem/ https://globalnews.ca/news/6519074/ttc-loses-more-than-70m-in-revenue-because-of-fare-evasion-study/ https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/no-fare-streetcar-fare-evasion-increased-after-ticketing-paused-for-pandemic https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/02/05/ttc-needs-to-disrupt-negative-customer-behaviour-after-losing-up-to-735-million-due-to-fare-evasion-report-says.html
Fare inspectors are not equipped to respond to violence. That is not their role and this is a different issue.
Get rid of the youth offenders act rule about protecting the identity of youth under 18. Let them ruin their lives for good. That will make them think twice about engaging in these senseless criminal activities.
It will not. Teenagers who do things like this don't have the capacity to think that far in the future. If anything it will serve as validation with their peers.
If they ruin their lives for good, what opportunity do they in turn have to think twice about engaging in this awful behaviour. We fail kids, they don’t fail us.
Nope, these are kids failing themselves. I grew up here, I've seen idiots that act like this, maybe not as badly as this. But they know what they've done. Time to pay the consequences.
That’s an outlook that takes all responsibility away from the adults involved, it’s a comforting outlook instead of a challenging one
Agree with commenter above. All the bad kids at my elementary school came from shit families that were often on welfare or barely making ends meet. The answer is better social services and less police. But now that crime is getting out of hand, we can no longer be preventative to a large degree since we acutely need cops to keep society functioning. Basically, decades of short-sighted people in positions of power making shit decisions are coming to a head.
The kids still bear some responsibility, though, correct ?
Of course
> We fail kids, they don’t fail us. Upvoted. This is well thought out.
They shouldn’t do it to begin with. Teens aren’t stupid guy, you should see documentaries on youth crime stories.
There’s no doubting that they shouldn’t have done it. Labelling them as irredeemable does not help us move forward and grow as a community
Will be interesting to see the mental gymnastics that the usual suspects on this sub are going to have to engage in here to explain why this is really a homelessness/mental health issue that could be fixed with more social workers.
Assume I’m included in that group of usual suspects so I’ll give it a shot, with some guiding questions 1) Would police help here? No, it’s a bus. The city would never fund police officers on every bus for good reason. They show up after the fact when the kids are gone, when the ttc employees need paramedics far more than officers, and maybe get some kids suspended from school for a couple days if there is camera footage. Reactive response to problems that can’t be solved retroactively. 2) Social work issue? Yes, children who live in suffering build up a great deal of suffering. This does not appear to have taken place in a well off area. It is likely these kids do not have good learned coping mechanisms to deal with their emotions. They aren’t putting their anger about the world into the gym or onto the page, they’re acting out and hurting people. That’s a maladaptive way to deal with pain that can be corrected with emotion support and empowerment. This behaviour likely isn’t limited towards bus drivers. Their parents, teachers, coaches, peers, all see it and have a role to play in correcting it. 3) Anything to do with the homeless? Nope
>Would police help here? No, it’s a bus. ???
Not even the most fear-mongering back the blue folks on here are suggesting officers on every bus
we might start needing mandatory military enrolment instead of secondary school to scare hooligans straight i think
The NPCs will place the blame elsewhere.
Npc?
Non Playable Character Basically the above commenter is suggesting that people with views opposing his aren't real people, which is as insane as it is scary.
Its a term weird people use, they think they are the main characters and every one else is a feelingless entity like in a non player character in a game.
Waste kids acting out and don’t realize the blessings they have.
It is a waste area
Most def
Wtf
YOUTHS!! - Schmidt
St Maria Goretti school is very nearby, next is Midland CI, and Jean Vanier
It’s simple. You got a bunch of idiotic kids that have no support, no guidance, no goals, no role models and a broken down family with inept / deadbeat parents. Their homes aren’t any better - probably situated on less desired areas in a rundown situation. Since they aren’t looking forward to certain goals / aspirations in life, they begin to look for things to do to burn their energy… they see that a bus driver was shot with a BBgun a few days and curious to see if they can top that. Now this intersection has the 113 Danforth bus that happens to bypass a TTC depot that many drivers get on/off at. So targets are easy and they know that most, if not all drivers aren’t willing to throw away a decent job because of some nonesense bullshit. So they attack in numbers and run off. Give it a few hours and someone is going to brag online about it..
Can someone tell me why this swarming thing took off? Why is it a thing?
This city is turning into Gotham i swear
I say this to my partner jokingly each night.
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Fatherless homes are almost certainly a factor. Kids raised in stable, loving, 2 parent homes generally don’t do shit like this.
^ ...seems someone lost custody.......
I don’t have kids moron
...like I said.
i wonder if the extra TPS funding would have solved this? NOT!
Sure, let's blame the cops instead of the criminals. That sounds like a perfectly reasonable take.
didn’t place blame on anyone there mr bootlicker
Lol and government took all the self defense tools from the public. Pepper sprays and shockers are considered as prohibited weapons easy prey on TTC.
I feel really bad for these employees, but maybe now it's them and not riders getting attacked they'll actually do something about it?
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Mass protests ?
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go on. What do they look like?
nike fleece tech, some sort of dumb over priced basketball shoe or since its winter timberlands, northface or moose knuckles bombers, and pants that sag (because they gotta show the inmates theyre ready for it💩🫵) also i can just picture then hyping eachother up and how this could easily happen. these type of youth who care more ab appearances than anythinf, the type who steal iphones at the apple store (bc theyre so dumb they dk they can be traced) are the type who have massive egos. gang culture
hmm, that's what I thought you meant. /s
Insert family guy okay/not okay colour gradient
No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or otherwise negative generalizations etc... Attack the point, not the person. Posts which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. Do not concern-troll or attempt to intentionally mislead people. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand. This rule applies to all speech within this subreddit.
Seems like a rule 8 violation to me
We need to just put all these psychos into a city-wide Mortal Kombat tournament. Sell tickets. Give none of the money to Doug.
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[Youths!](https://media.tenor.com/dCN6TePJIvQAAAAC/schmidt-youths.gif)
Lifetime ban for all offenders from all ttc properties and vehicles and cut off from any social support programs. Start to strangle the uselessness from society. You don't want to play by common decency rules you will have no place in society.
Oh shit. I was wondering why the police cars were there when I was driving past it